Sailplane Student Crash Landing: Instructor Reacts!

[@chrismusix5669]

He didn't cut the engine soon enough! I can hear him rev it up as he touches down ≽ܫ≼

[@PureGlide]

lol

[@thomasaltruda]

4:14 the bounce isn’t from the springiness in the undercarriage.. it’s from the excess airspeed and the pitch change in AOA

[@PureGlide]

Yes agreed, not really relevant

[@gedgar2000]

You have to retract the brakes, drop the nose into a proper pitch attitude, and pretty much forget about the bounce. Fly it again, get lined back up, and land it like you should have had the first time. I’ve flown with stellar students that never got themselves in a situation like this. When they did, as they ALWAYS will eventually, you hope they can handle it correctly, especially on one of their first solos. Usually they do, a lot of times it’s TROUBLE, and just bring able to watch from the ground, is guy wrenching!

[@anotherday2084]

​​@@gedgar2000 i flied 23 solos, good landings, on my last one i bounced and then landed. fortunately it was not a big bounce and everything went smooth i remembered what my instructor told me: wait and see how much you jump, keep direction and wing level and land like normal. but this stuff you don't find in the actual manuals (at least here). this is something that instructor needs to prepare you

[@davidallan9624]

A useful reminder to instructors of the importance of sending someone solo when they can fly safely and consistently. Someone I sent off solo ended up doing a PIO on landing (not as bad as the example in the video) and had a few bounces. My fault, as I thought that I had managed to get him out of the habit of doing shallow approaches with too little airbrake. This makes the glider more pitch sensitive and prone to be "twitchy" after round out. No harm done and the guy is now a very accomplished pilot.

[@PureGlide]

Yeah you never know how they'll handle things like that until it happens! I think it's essential to make sure they can handle something like a bounce, or pilot induced oscillation for that reason

[@vilmarmoccelin]

First I'm not a pilot of any kind... 0 seconds under control of anything that fly, but want to try soon. That said, imagine a student that is at a stage that he does everything right, have multiple flights with everything perfect from engine start to engine stop without instructor corrections aside normal instruction stuff. He even encounter some harder situations and handle it well without the instructor having to take the controls... But now you take their safety net, they are alone, and still something's new can be thrown on them like a real engine failure or something equivalent on dimension on gliders. How a student is prepared to confront this kind of situation? I know that airplanes the instructor can turn off the engine by surprise, lets say in a stall training, an already trick situation made worse buy surprise, but in a glider how instructors induce this kind of situations to test the ability of the student when a little error could evolve to a harder to solve problem in an already stressful situation?!? You induce bounces and pilot induced oscillating or is impossible to a student to get to solo level without inducing this kind of thing with a instructor still present?

[@davidallan9624]

@@vilmarmoccelin There are training situations on a winch launch that are akin to an engine failure where the instructor pulls the release to simulate a cable break at various stages (heights) in the launch. This doesn't deal with issues on the landing, such as insufficient flare, or problems on the approach, such as too little airbrake, but it does test the student pilot's ability to deal with "emergency" situations. Dealing with a bounce, or ballooning, at round-out (flare) is trickier to demonstrate. There is a simulated launch failure mode where the winch power is chopped just as the glider leaves the ground. This requires the instructor to demonstrate holding the glider in a float, on the ground affect, with the airbrakes closed until the glider starts losing energy and the main and tail wheel settles on the grass. The airbrakes can then be extended to spoil lift and bring the glider to a halt. The exercise is a demonstration only as the student may be tempted to pull the airbrakes open too early, and way too much, with the glider stalling onto the ground. The demonstration shows how far the glider will float on ground affect with no airbrake and how sensitive the elevator appears to be in this configuration. Another useful exercise is for the instructor to gently close the airbrakes just after round-out from a normal approach. The P2 can then get a feel of how sensitive the gilder appears on the ground affect and the tendency to induce a PIO if overly course elevator control is used. The instructor needs to guard the controls very carefully for this but it can be a useful lesson. Quite often the student will balloon some of the early landing attempts, even from an approach with sufficient airbrake, and these can be used as a learning experience for what to do on any subsequent landing attempt when this might happen. With airbrakes squeazed away and the nose gently lowered we are back to the long-float scenario. A bounce can be dealt with in a similar fashion - depending on how severe it is.

[@jamesmaddison4546]

@@vilmarmoccelin A competent instructor would of took you through every situation multiple times with them on the controls, and then multiple times with you on the controls. They will also cause "failures" when none are planned during a training flight as a surprise and leave you on your own to handle it. Mine used to say nope you can't ask me im unconscious from hypoxia its all you buddy lol but this was after I was fully prepared to handle it of course. He would say something like look out to your left and find whatever landmark, and while I was looking for it he would start screwing around with the gauges, messing with settings like trim tabs, turning certain things off like fuel flow which after however long the engine would completely quit of course and leave me to troubleshoot. Sometimes he would set things up that would cause a whole sequence of failures back to back to back and if he noticed I became too focused on one thing he would mess with something I already fixed and see if I caught it after sorting out the other problems. He wanted me and all his other students TO BE ABLE TO DO ALL THIS WHILE MAINTAINING LEVEL FLIGHT, if maintaining same altitude wasn't possible then he wanted us to be able to minimize the loss of altitude just as much as he could. If we lost too much he would fail us for that flight and we would have to do it again. For every failed flight we had to do 3 successful flights in that scenario we originally failed in order to pass it. He was an old school pilot. He flew fighters during ww2 and Korea, it was a straight up honor and privilege to learn to fly from him. The aircraft had all the fancy glass cockpit gizmos but he would turn them all off and say too many pilots are too reliable on all this stuff and have no idea how to properly & safely fly using the standard "6 pack" which is the old way. All his students learned to fly the old way first and once we had 15-20 hours under our belt AFTER being solo certified did he let us start using all the tech in the aircraft.

[@bartjoboy]

@@vilmarmoccelin It's kinda like learning to drive a car. At some point you also need to do that without an instructor next to you. But new situations can happen anytime also on the road. The idea is that at some point you have the experience and instinct to correctly deal with new situations as well. And when you have enough experience to make these kinds of judgement calls successfully on your own is up to the instructor. Will it be perfect? Probably not, but that won't matter as long as you're able to deal with it in a safe way.

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

"And the sponsor of this video is… me" ;)

[@PureGlide]

Why not eh :)

[@gaminghawks1174]

Oh😭🥺🥺🥺

[@davy1458]

I need you to sponser my racing corvette.....the only thing im missing is the corvette

[@nicohellmuth5275]

@@davy1458 and the racing parts I think

[@davy1458]

@@nicohellmuth5275 baby steps

[@coptertim]

Outstanding!! Now I can show someone what it is like to hover a helicopter for the first time. That too is a humbling experience. And with an engine to help!

[@danielpaulson8838]

Practicing touch and goes without an engine can take a long time for skill development. The student is brilliant.

[@PureGlide]

Well they certainly got a few landings in this flight!

[@GizziMoD]

@@PureGlide lol!

[@99kevin99]

@@GizziMoD Agree with always looking on the "positive side of life"...LOL!

[@marianmankowski2371]

Dziękujemy.

[@PureGlide]

Thank you very much!

[@JustinRinehart]

In my humble opinion, the best determination of when a student is ready for a solo flight is when they are able to hold a decent conversation about something other than the flying while on final. If they stop talking, or start over controlling and inducing PIO, they need more time in converting the landing process from a high stress active mental state to a rote or muscle memory level. Let your subconscious do all the hard work. Great video!

[@PureGlide]

Thanks! Yeah that makes a lot of sense

[@andrewkelk8414]

You actually make a very good point. I'm not a flyer, but learner attitude is paramount. If they display confidence like that, they probably are.

[@HobbyView]

During my check ride for my license, the examiner tried to distract me with conversation to see if I would lose concentration on my flying.

[@airlogic]

On the first bounce I would have done a go around!!!

[@PureGlide]

lol yeah he almost had enough energy for it too

[@TheSoaringChannel]

Go around flaps! 😂

[@floatingchimney]

A go around in a glider? Not gonna work unless his airspeed was 280kmh / 160knots (and it wasn't).

[@tomdchi12]

Yep. That big of a mess? Throttle up and .... oh, wait...

[@jonathanrabbitt]

He couldn't find his TOGA switch in time.

[@imbok]

I fly RC model sailplanes and powered RC and the most common mistake I see on landing is coming in too high with too much energy. It took me ages go get that right so, just like with full size aviation, time in the air and guided practice is the way to get there. I love your vids!

[@PureGlide]

Yeah it certainly takes practice to get the energy right! Even worse is not having enough :)

[@DumbledoreMcCracken]

@@PureGlide as you know, it is almost impossible to start too high if you are willing to use spoilers AND forward slip. The only danger there is having some dufus on a shallow approach fly under you.

[@martinusher1]

At least with a R/C model you can catch the thing and so pretend that was what you were intending to do all the time. (Non-R/C fliers -- the goal in thermal competition flying is to land on a point at a set time so you're normally standing just behind where you expect to land the plane.....which is also an incentive to not overshoot.....)

[@cal-native]

Being a proficient R/C pilot was some of the best preparatory training I could ever have experienced!

[@TracyA123]

There is nothing more awesome on KZbin than a creator who can laugh at themselves! The "good content" caption had me in tears laughing!😂 Subscribed!

[@PureGlide]

Thanks Tracy, glad you enjoyed it :)

[@TracyA123]

@@PureGlide ☺Yw

[@ThePaulv12]

Well this was me with a gliding instructor LOL. The other members decided to start calling 'me one approach 5 landings' and refused to address me by my name. Needless to say I got jack of them and never ever went back and naturally didn't go solo. With hindsight, they probably wanted me gone. I went and got commercial pilot's licence after that. Look I'm a failed glider pilot but I do know how to land a plane. So when I was getting my powered licence I was so traumatized by my gliding experience, I told my instructor about it and he taught me this: In the aircraft he pointed out, If you notice in the correct flare the ground 'interacts' with your peripheral vision. (for me it's like a piece of cardboard - representing the ground, rising up my body and stops at the corner edges of the eyes). Once noticed and refined is a very reliable gauge for judging flare height. If the peripheral vision thing goes above the corner edges of your eyes then you're on the ground. You get so good at it that even steep approaches present no problems because it uses the eyes to teach feeling, which refines judgement. This is how it works in practice. Firstly I've had it drilled into me, aim before the touchdown point - touchdown point is always beyond the aiming point. So I want to land beyond the piano keys. I aim for the point about 10 metres before where the grass meets the edge of the runway. I set my approach glideslope for that point and as I get to 50' above airfield elevation I begin to gently transition out of the glideslope and fly parallel to the ground while looking at the end of the runway then wait for the ground to interact with the peripheral corners of my eye to create 'the feeling.' (Inertia causes the plane to sink through the 50' pullout point and puts you in the ballpark elevation for landing) As the plane sinks I arrest the sink to keep flying parallel to keep the peripheral eye interaction going. Speed is decaying because I'm not substituting speed for elevation. Next thing you know you're on the deck smoothly. I understand gliders have more ground effect than most powered planes and could present more difficulties for solo students but the feeling technique is valid tool. Gliders would change the initial aiming point and the deployment of the dive brakes factored in. It's a cliche but a good landing is always preceded by a good approach which in a glider would be preceded by a good circuit entry.

[@PureGlide]

Hey don't think you are for a moment a failed glider pilot. They are a failed club and failed instructors! Unbelievable they could treat people like that. Great to hear you got into aviation anyway. And yes what you said sounds very good around the peripheral vision. That's what we teach too. If you're ever in New Zealand stop by our Piako Gliding Club and we'll show you how you should have been treated :)

[@henrih3080]

In my opinion you would have experienced no problems if you would have deployed your airbrakes fully before the round out! It looked a lot like pilot induced ocillation!

[@fritz4345]

I am sorry that your club failed you.

[@ThePaulv12]

@@fritz4345 Cheers man but they're still going strong so they must be doing something right. I guess they're got their business model so refined they can pick and choose members. It's not how I'd do it but they're a club of pseudo alpha males and privileged Boomers so being Gen-X, I probably had no hope.

[@niederwildjaeger]

Nice explanation and easily comprehensible for at least any GA pilot or sim pilot. As others (and you as well) said, speed during the final phase was too high and led to this "non optimal" landing. I disagree with your aiming point though, in my experience an aiming point 50m (around 150ft) in front of the selected point of making contact with the ground is more accurate.

[@nickcaro4755]

Great landing he's alive and the plane is usable again At least he did not give up. Fly it as far into the crash as you are able

[@PureGlide]

Yeah very true, although he was overwhelmed he still kept flying it until the end. That is good :)

[@leozerba]

Every time I watch this, I am thinking "no no no no NO NOOO". I agree, not all the blame should go to the student, he was just not ready for solo. I still remember when my instructor pulled my first unscheduled cable brake. I knew all the theory, but I had a complete brain freeze! Pitch down? Wait for manuvering speed? Brakes for landing ahead? The GoPro footage just shows 3 second of insisting in pitch up followed by "I have control". After a few of those it became second nature.

[@PureGlide]

Yeah we don’t do actual unexpected brakes now, it’s always prebreifed. But still a surprise when it actually will happen on the tow :)

[@ascherlafayette8572]

Lol I remember my first rope break. Instructor asked what the first thing I should do in a rope break is, I answered and he pulled the thing. Definitely took a second to sink in

[@TheAverageDutchman]

I think, after viewing this again a year later, and after now having flown a Twin a few times that the airplane type in question also heavily contributed to this accident. The TwAstir is heavy (so carries a lot of energy if not properly rounded off and flown until it stops flying) and at the same time very floaty in ground effect. This combination makes if very easy to get caught out and bounce back into the air. You'd be hard pressed to get this much bounce out of an ASK-21 or Puchacz for instance (I've never seen the 21 bounce this way and is fairly easy to recover in my experience, the Puchacz would probably bounce up once and then stop flying halfway up as it runs out of airspeed if not immediately brought back under control.).

[@DavidNewmon]

This is a classic Pilot Induced Oscillation. They call it porpoising too. It's important never to push the yoke forward and "chase" the up & down of the airplane. You want to bleed off airspeed so the yoke should stay pulled back slightly or basically level, but never pushed forward. I've had a few flat landings with a little too much airspeed myself and it did a little bounce a few feet up, and then you just settle the plane back onto the runway. I fly powered airplanes but the same applies here I'm sure.

[@maximusboscus]

In my exam I remember perfectly one of the sentences of the examiner that day during the briefing: "My job today is to make sure this guy has done his job properly" while pointing at our instructor.

[@davidholmgren659]

After the 1st bounce you have to completely realign you're thinking, stabilize the aircraft and start all over. A very dangerous situation. Great video and analysis 👍.

[@PureGlide]

Thank you!

[@rcbif101]

Yep. After that first bounce, many get that "gotta get it on the ground!" panic and are intimidated by the thought of running out of runway. I had a small embarrassing bounce earlier this year, but relaxed, reestablished, and made a smooth second touchdown with immediate full braking. Still stopped with plenty of runwag to spare. The Grob 103 wheel brakes do get em stopped pretty fast. Just not used to really needing them all that often, so end up forgetting how short you can really land one of these.

[@jme104]

@@rcbif101 If you bounce , don't push the stick forward, just let the glider land by itself .

[@hamstermomoco]

This landing video is so classic that every glider pilot has probably seen it. Apparently, he never used the brakes before touching the ground.

[@PureGlide]

Yeah it's been around a long time! Cheers

[@jamesk48676776]

@@PureGlide I think he had confused the airbrake for the elevator if you look at the timing of the A/B deployment and the bounce.

[@Turbo999be]

@@jamesk48676776 Yep ! I think first he forgot the airbrakes, he was at least 50% too fast and used the air brakes after the first bounce when he realised he forgot them and then overwhelmed by stress he accumulated mistakes over mistakes, maybe to the point of pulling the stick thinking he was pulling the airbrakes... you never know.

[@Make_Boxing_Great_Again]

You can land with no breaks, you just can’t land at like 3x your stall speed 😅

[@Smachfest]

He should have used the 'Go Around' option.

[@eugeniobb]

This took me 30 years back in time... thanks!

[@PureGlide]

Cheers!

[@wackaircaftmechanic2312]

I always see these and feel bad. Sorry I haven't been around as much. Really like these videos. Hope you're doing well.

[@PureGlide]

Thanks RetroSoaring!

[@shoomapadoo1141]

This was a very informative video and I can't wait to master that exercise so I can show off at work!

[@PureGlide]

It’s a great one for at work!

[@Balancedviewable]

ive flown with many instructors, and my current CFI has 30,000 hours instruct time. Ive been told that when the student can conduct a relaxed conversation during landing, that is the sign they are ready to solo, having sufficient extra capacity to cope during landing. Regardless, sometimes people stress and panic, and not being psychic the instructor cannot predict this, so I feel as you weren't there, you are merely speculating, and that helps nobody trying to assign blame.

[@PureGlide]

That is a good thought, as mentioned it's a bit of an art to determining if a student is ready or not. And yes it is speculation, just from the video. Cheers

[@christopherrobinson7541]

Yes, I use that trick. If the student can fly, speak, think and talk at the same time, they should have enough capacity to cope with any eventuality on their own, time to send them solo.

[@hedonzx822]

Agreed, I also make them close their eyes before I put them in a rather uncomfortable position at a high enough altitude and then tell them to open their eyes while stating; your controls. When they can stabilize the glider in a well coordinated and calm manner? Then I will solo them.

[@FlywithMagnar]

My flying career started with hang-gliders, followed by airplanes and gliders. A hang-glider is hard to start and land the first times. An airplane is hard to land (it takes 10 minutes to learn to fly, and 10 hours to learn to land). And when I started to fly gliders, the challenge was to fly in formation with the airplane towing me. With experience from hang-gliders and airplanes, I found gliders very easy to land, tanks to the airbrake. For a beginner, the challenge will always to land in one piece, regardless of what you are flying. As you said, a lot is happening during landing, and you just need time to get things sorted out. Great video!

[@henrih3080]

For me it was really easy to learn the tow-plane launch in the glider!

[@ascherlafayette8572]

I also remember how light my ask was without someone else in the back. On my landing, I had to consciously fight the urge to put the thing on the ground until it started to settle.

[@PureGlide]

Yeah it is lighter, definitely different for pilots. You get used to it pretty quick :)

[@mydogbrian4814]

- 💓 Loved the part of letting go & getting your *"subconscious"* into the act. - Like me back in highschool typing class where in mid season my teachers hands from behind me finally forced my head to stare at only the typing book & not back & forth to the typewriter keys. - And suddenly, *Miraculously* , all my fingers just took over!

[@PureGlide]

Yeah exactly the same! Cheers

[@vortex_un]

multitasking dance made my day. haha.

[@PureGlide]

That’s a good name for it!

[@TheHelac]

Appreciate the details… the timing of audio+video “bounce” was nice :)

[@PureGlide]

Thanks! Unfortunately I didn't have footage of a real proper bounce, or bounce recovery...

[@bigc208]

High Energy Landing Problem. HELP. As old as aviation itself. Forcing an aircraft on the ground that still wants to fly is bad form.

[@jiyushugi1085]

I always told students that the key to a good landing is to try and prevent the plane from landing. That is, once configured, hold it off until enough lift bleeds off so that the glider/plane lands itself.

[@raymoreton3184]

I used to be in the air cadets when I was a teenager and I was lucky enough to get myself on a basic glider course when I was 16 and I am pretty sure we had to do at least 10-15 maybe more full circuits without doing anything bad before being allowed to solo.

[@adrianpeters2413]

Subscribed , this is the best i have found to help me learn gliding , as i am doing now in reality at , hinton in the hedges today ..no flying ....rain and cloud overcast ... thank you 😊😊

[@bruperina]

Thanks for the content, mate.

[@PureGlide]

Thanks for watching! Cheers

[@sfmc98]

I've never seen this channel before but I can already tell that he's an excellent instructor, just by his calming voice. I can imagine doing something new and dangerous like learning to fly a glider with him in my ear giving me tips and pointers with an "you're-doing-just-fine" tone. Also, clearly a natural teacher as evidenced by his attitude about teaching itself, and the examples used to make his point. That seems to be everything a student could ask for!

[@PureGlide]

Thanks for the very kind words!

[@djscotty06]

It cracks me up when I hear an accent of a fellow kiwi. I’m so used to US and UK accents on YT. The clip in the alps is awesome 👍

[@PureGlide]

Thanks mate!

[@sicZ32]

Just subbed. Ty for the content brotha. From California!

[@PureGlide]

Thanks mate!

[@Barrawitzkaa]

It´s understood, that every pilot has to gain experience and mistakes can happen anytime. But I think on final airbrakes have to be fully set if you do a standard approch in a glider. So you will have the possibility to flatten your glidepath anytime if necessary and avoid coming in to short. And you won´t "bounce" like in this video if touching down in this configuration. I started gliding in 1983 in Germany.

[@PureGlide]

Yes agreed, they certainly shouldn’t be going in and out like that on landing! Ideally a steady position all the way down

[@brushitoff503]

Classic one Tim. Have you ever had a wind shear event on landing & hit the ground hard? I did once years ago. Still made a good landing after bouncing nearly 50 Feet back into the air. Luckily no damage was done & no-one was hurt. I immeadietly put the nose down & closed the airbrakes, maintained airspeed then landed long but normally. This was in an IS-28 B2 in Alice Springs NT. The strip is surrounded by trees which caused the wind shear. Cheers.

[@PureGlide]

Yeah trees next to a landing is a danger I’d like to talk about at some point!

[@brushitoff503]

@@PureGlide please do!

[@althalus401]

The glider involved in this incident is a Grob 103 Acro. The Acro is a very stable and simple glider to fly, people will say it is under ruddered but that is only a factor in steeply banked turns. It is a very efficient glider in ground effect and landing without airbrakes was one of the most difficult things to teach. (I never taught it to students, only instructors) The Acro has an unsprung fixed mainwheel. The basic cause of the accident was insufficient airbrake to start with. At 55 knots the airbrakes will naturally sit at half out increasing to full at around 65 knots. At least half airbrake is needed for the flare and touchdown. There is a lot of mass in the airbrakes and if the ground is struck firmly, inertia results in a big closing force on the airbrake lever which makes the bounce even worse. So yes it would appear that the student was not taught, or forgot to maintain half airbrake. This is quite a common Grob 103 accident, not so much by students who have been taught in the glider but by those converting to it, including instructors. If that accident had occurred in an ASK21 the nosewheel would have disappeared, the Grob is fairly solid :-)

[@PureGlide]

Hey thanks for sharing, cheers

[@chadmcvlad9794]

Aso someone who is learning how to fly a grob 103A ( im like 90% sure that that is a grob) I ran into the same problem as that student, but I had an instructer who was in the back. We landed fine after he took over, and this was the ( of the glider, not the purge glide video ) that they showed me. Takeaway, it can happen to anyone, and never open your spoilers in the ground effect, or with care if you do.

[@Flatunello]

I haven't flown a glider for over thirty years. My wife and I were both private pilots and flew gliders in Southern California, too. Going from powered-flight to other-than was interesting; many things had to change in my viewpoint. Excellent video to popup out of the blue.

[@PureGlide]

Thanks glad you enjoyed it!

[@thatguyalex2835]

Did you know that some gliders have a small electric propeller? So it is hybrid between powered and unpowered flight. :)

[@Flatunello]

@@thatguyalex2835 So I have heard. Ain't that cheating? LOL

[@thatguyalex2835]

@@Flatunello Lol... Actually, there is a solar powered glider that takes off using solar energy, and then retracts the propeller once you reach your desired altitude. Then one can ride the thermals from there with no propeller needed. It is called the Sunseeker Duo.

[@Flatunello]

@@thatguyalex2835 Way cheaper than a tow plane. But how do you box the wake?

[@socorrozamarripa6249]

When I was a student pilot at 16 years of age, I must have done very well, that I had recommendations to go to train for commercial pilot or train to be an instructor myself when I flew a Cessna 150 two passengers and a four-passenger airplane, had a solo for my license and my mom didn't want me to finish 😭

[@PureGlide]

Oh no! Well it’s never too late to pick up where you left off!

[@socorrozamarripa6249]

@@PureGlide I wish it was that simple is has been too long like 51 years ago when the Wright brothers were inviting the airplanes lols. Thank you for your support.

[@BJCulpepper]

One other thing that's good to mention is that folks usually get too focused on landing to the point that landing becomes more important than a controlled landing. Once they touch the ground they get into this spastic mode of I now have to get the plane down. For ultralights I've seen a lot of people get into the I have to be on the ground mode.

[@FlyingHighInAC]

That's not a crash. That's a typical landing with my RC plane.🤣

[@PureGlide]

Lol

[@davidbarlow431]

OK, not gliders but at my old flying school, on nice days when everyone was sat out on the apron with a cup of tea, it was common to hear everyone break into a chorus of "skippy the Bush kangaroo". Take heart though, most of the famous bounce brigade from my day are now flying 737's or Airbuses.

[@homeistheearth]

I usually try to get lined up, then i use brake to get closer to the point i want to aim at, then when im sure i can reach this point i pull near full brakes, then park my hand, dont think about it and only focus on steering the glider and flatting out and stalling the airplane around 1-2 meters over the runway. You wont bounce back up when you are stalled out. Also push back in brakes also make you flying again and sudden changes in pulling out the brakes can also make you stall too high up if you dont focus on your speed like mentioned in the video, try to cut down things you need to focus on.

[@PureGlide]

Yeah agreed!

[@gliding_soaring]

In the UK aiming point is called the reference point. Great video, Thank you

[@PureGlide]

Thanks for the info

[@donalfinn4205]

Concise and to the point. A pity more KZbin vids are not like this.👍☘️

[@PureGlide]

Thanks! I try :)

[@e.a.p3174]

To state the obvious the pilot was not ready to solo.

[@dwightlyon3643]

Another issue I saw in this video is that the student was looking over off the side of the runway instead of looking where he was suppose to . Very normal to head where you look. Pick the point down the runway and stay fixed on it!

[@PureGlide]

Yeah absolutely!

[@d.b.1176]

Shows how resilient gliders are.

[@PureGlide]

Yeah they are pretty strong in some ways!

[@Olszymanski]

Ryanair: what do you mean he landed

[@PureGlide]

lol

[@MrSheckstr]

This popped up randomly on my feed for some reason but it has sparked my curiosity to the point I have two questions about training someone to fly and land a glider 1 when a student solos for the first time is a weight put into the trainers seat to simulate the same vehicle conditions as when in training? 2 have you ever flown chase with a glider student in a second craft ? In my mind I am picturing the very old footage of STS 1 disconnecting from its 747 carrier for the first time and gliding in for a landing while other NASA pilots flew chase in a variety of vehicles to help talk the shuttle pilot down Edited because I have a third question Do glider pilots use landing chutes with any regularity? I am dimly remembering a conversation I had with someone who explained that landing chute not only help an aircraft slow down upon landing but also maintain a straight line course in the same way a sea anchor helps a ship maintain stability and course , this is a very dim memory and I can’t remember what we were watching that had a jet using landing chutes

[@PureGlide]

Hi, here are some quick answers: 1) Nah your first solo in a twin is usually just lighter without the second pilot, so it can feel different to land. But it's not TOO different, but may have contributed to this pilots issues. 2) No, we do lead and follow with more advanced students for cross country flying, but not early solo pilots. 3) Some specific gliders do have landing chutes. Most modern gliders have effect air brakes, so we don't need chutes, but a few older gliders have them as a backup if you need to stop more quickly. Cheers!

[@MrSheckstr]

@@PureGlide thanks …. A LONG time ago I rode with an uncle several times in his ultra light (he was an agricultural consultant and used an ultralight to commute from farm to farm instead of a car sometimes so he could get an aerial view of their fields) and I have a VERY dim memory of once him taking me up in a glider but I’m not sure how much my own imagination has altered that memory over the years

[@cal-native]

I completely agree that this guy's instruction seems a bit lacking, simply by gauging some of his set up and reactions. He seemed to be diving at the runway and was carrying a lot of speed, instead of using his spoilers to do that for him. He made first contact at such high speed that he bounced and quickly got into a PIO situation, and then finally he wasn't aggressive enough on the rudder. Glad to hear pilot and plane came through ok, and hopefully he was able to understand what happened and correct any issues👍

[@VinceSamios]

I'd just like to say I managed the exercise you proposed, whilst laughing my ass off 🤣 that was absolute gold, hahahhah

[@PureGlide]

Haha good stuff!

[@robertkbrooks951]

My first pilots license is in gliders. I was 20 years old. you only get one shot to land. Now at 63 years old, fly a LAKE LA-4-200 Flying Boat Seaplane. Must concentrate on the Water/airspeed/ Boat traffic and waves. same deal. Otherwise , keep um flying. Arrgh. Captain Morgan. Retired.N32DQ. Beaufort South Carolina , USA.

[@ChristianSchwarz71]

just noticed, you have made it into chucks glider podcast :-) And thanks for this video.

[@PureGlide]

Yeah hope you like it! Cheers

[@esuohdica]

4:24 you said put the brakes away? I spotted on the video that the brakes disappeared after the first bounce and thought this could have been a mistake? I'm thinking the guy is busy enough mid-bounce, without adding something else for him to think about... can you explain?

[@PureGlide]

Yeah sure, so the problem with leaving the brakes out is you'll come down fast. It doesn't give you time to set up for another landing, under more control. You need time to choose a new aiming point, and then ease the brakes open again to descend towards under control. In the case of this pilot, it looks from the video that he panicked, was overloaded, and you can see the brakes opened and close a number of times because of that. TLDR: Closing the brakes gives you time to sort shit out :)

[@esuohdica]

@@PureGlide thanks for that! Yes, he definitely couldn’t decide about the brakes!

[@themagicrat8803]

My first solo flight was on a motorbike and I definitely wasn't ready.

[@PureGlide]

Blimey!

[@saultube44]

Thank you 😀👍

[@PureGlide]

Thank you!

[@Anshuman566]

My first solo, used very less air brake, touched down and bounced , closed the brake completely, touched again and bounced again .. 3 landings in one flight😂. Instructor came to retrieve me and pointed out the mistake… all good since then. 🤞🏽

[@cas1652]

This is me landing in every flight simulator

[@HotelPapa100]

2:21 "You've got your roll, lift..." Isn't that pitch? "..and right" Oh! THAT lift...

[@PureGlide]

Yeah I have no idea what I’m doing most of the time 😂

[@Hackepeter9104]

True Words👏👏 Everyone flying any kind of plane had one of these landings in his/her career (including myself). In my case it was the airbrakes as well.

[@PureGlide]

Hmm it's not unheard of, but again proper training should prepare you so it doesn't happen when you're by yourself. You want it to happen when the instructor is on board, so they can catch it, stop it happening, and you can learn not to do it again. Cheers!

[@Hackepeter9104]

@IndyHelis Of course most of them are not even near to be that heavy as shown in this video (Thankfully my wasn´t as well). What I meant by this, is that smaller bounces can happen all the time, especially with some turbulent (cross)wind, or on airfields you never landed before, which are not as even as they seem. But a Little “Bunnyhopping“ is not really unusual (not that much in glider segment, but in smaller Touring machines) , and that‘s why everyone, The Pilot, The Student, The Teacher, should be prepared for this to happen... As pure glide said, the teacher is supposed to “teach“ the student, that this might happen, and how to react

[@jiyushugi1085]

As a CFIG I never taught students in high performance gliders like the one shown here. I think it best to start with slower, more docile ships like the Schweizer 2-33 or similar. The high performance ships are simply too sensitive to control inputs for most students and they fly too fast. And if a student wrecks one, as they inevitably will, the repairs are far more expensive. As they said in old Japan: if you aspire to ride a horse, first learn to ride a water buffalo. And yes, the student shown here was not ready to solo.

[@DMC888]

In our area most students solo in an ASK13, then they move on to the K8. I spent months on these before moving on to glass gliders.

[@JohnDoe69986]

Just out of curiosity why wouldn’t you start them in something with an engine. I learned in my grandfathers ultralight. My logic being if they are landing and get in a situation they want to get out of they add throttle and circle back around for another try.

[@jiyushugi1085]

@@JohnDoe69986 Well, an engine is just one more thing a beginning pilot needs to worry about when they should be devoting all their concentration to properly operating the flight controls. That is, it's a distraction. Learning to operate an airplane can be overwhelming enough without the added burden of having to operate and monitor an engine. To say nothing of the noise and vibration. The engine is also a crutch. Note how many pilots have killed themselves, along with friends and family, because they panicked when their engine quit shortly after takeoff (or even in flight). A competent gilder pilot in that situation would be able to keep the plane flying and put it down somewhere. Too, glider pilots develop very good 'stick and rudder' skills and are very sensitive as to how the aircraft is moving through the air - sensations that are homogenized when there's an engine (and radio work) involved. In simpler terms: if you were teaching someone to ride a motorcycle, wouldn't you want to be sure they could ride a bicycle first?

[@kaihorstmann2783]

In Europe the Default Trainer is the ASK-21. Older trainers like the ASK-13 are dying out, as they age and/or break. They do not grow on trees. BTW, a Twin Astir flies like a Tank. A SGS-33 is more agile. The Twin admittedly flys faster, but when you train on it from the start that is what is normal. Besides it is very docile, it does not even spin.

[@kaihorstmann2783]

@@DMC888 Where did you train, and more importantly, when?

[@klausschwabshubris]

Excellent and magnificent, nuff said.

[@PureGlide]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@keegan773]

It looks like as he was opening and closing the air brakes with one hand his other hand was making sympathetic movements on the stick.

[@PureGlide]

Yeah just overloaded

[@johndunstan3875]

After the first bounce I yelled GO AROUND! 😝

[@PureGlide]

Exactly!

[@hedonzx822]

Hello to you all, please never wear those baseball caps definitely those with the knob on top that can hurt you and even worse might damage the canopy. And in any airborne vehicle it becomes a look-out limiting device.

[@PureGlide]

Good tip!

[@DanielSan-ch7dr]

That was funny lol. Im just learning and landing is my bjggest worry. But Aerotow is also harder then it looks

[@PureGlide]

It is a bit! Basically aerotow is formation flying and you’re learning it before you even know how to control the glider properly, totally unfair really!!

[@captarmour]

when my eyesight started changing finding it difficult to judge when to flare, I used 10% of my rate of descent to transition to a "400 fpm rate of descent, in landing attitude, with speed bleeding off" regime(just like when leveling off at altitude). I got the 400fpm from an article on water landings on smooth glassy surface where its impossible to judge height. less then 300 fpm tends to cause too rapid speed decay, greater than 400fpm tends to result in firm landings. maintaining a constant speed tended to cause float. this technique is especially helpful for steep approaches.

[@KB4QAA]

Capt: For those not familiar, Smooth Water Landings in Seaplanes are normally made at 100FPM descent.

[@TheSoaringChannel]

@@KB4QAA which means an engine out glassy water approach should look like a VNE dive to 100 above the water and 100fpm to the water. With as muchd rag as those things have... You'll probably still stall in 😂

[@captarmour]

@@KB4QAA thanks for this tip. the article i read was years ago in flying magazine. I've more recently read of 300 fpm. i'm sure 100 fpm may a good idea but I've never tried it over my 17000 + hours. in my experience on the DHC8-100/300 it would need quite a lot more power which will be more difficult as the tendency to float may be enhanced. what worked for me was to reduce approach power from about 25% to about 15% and bleed off the rest close to the ground into touchdown. if the rate of descent decreased to less than 300fpm I would need to increase power to avoid a tailstrike. application or reduction of thrust causes a couple couples. at low speeds the power reduction would have to be after aft stick to prevent a sink as the T tail is sluggish. timing has to be perfect to prevent a balloon or a drop. a yaw and roll couple too would have to be anticipated. yeah man, 400 fpm worked for me. i set it up so my workload is reduced. one of my top first officers said "david someone cant look at you and learn to fly u look like u r doing nothing" disclaimer: I've never done water landings

[@KB4QAA]

@@captarmour I like that you applied principles from other aircraft to the situation. I, on the other hand have no glider time. However, I get the impression that glider elevator trim systems are 'approximate", light forced. This would seem to work against having a stabilized speed and descent rate we seek in powered planes. Perhaps just the nature of gliders which are so light and easily upset. cheers, b.

[@captarmour]

@@KB4QAA Interesting point. the landing faze beginning at a height of just above 10% of rate of descent is not at a stabilized speed but rather with speed gently bleeding off. I never did work out how many knots per second but enough to know its not a constant speed. in fact ever since BA flight 38, 777, landed short at Heathrow in 2008 I did almost all my landings off visual approaches with Zero Thrust settings to put a glide to landing into muscle memory. with approach flaps selected at min speed for flaps up and landing flap selected at min speed for approach flap, I hardly ever needed to touch the trim wheel.

[@CaptainCurt07]

Nice summation

[@PureGlide]

Thanks!

[@RobinHartJones]

I think the main issue here, if it was his first solo, was that lack of instructor weight. I remember my first solo. We had done a few circuits from a winch up to about 1200ft and a lazy circuit and landing (plus the extra cable breaks that are a big clue that you are about to be turned solo :-) ) My instructor has weighed nearly 14 stone and suddenly I was leaving the cable at 1500ft and the glider did not seem to want to lose altitude! I hung around off to one side of the upwind end until my alt was down to 1000 then joined the downwind but still had to let it drift out a bit and extend the downwind longer to get it down to a sensible altitude for commencing base leg and finals. I cannot remember if I landed longer than usual but I probably did. If this pilot had been thrown by the lower sink rate and still attempted to fly a 'normal' circuit and approach regardless then that might explain why he was too fast and trying to fly it on like a carrier landing :-)

[@PureGlide]

Yeah the weight difference can definitely be a factor on your first solo. The training leading up to it should give you the tools to handle it, you never know when you're going to have more sink or lift on a circuit just from the air, or thermal etc.

[@captarmour]

think "step on the runway" like how we step(stamp/mash) on the ball to trigger the brain to use the feet instead of hands to steer. runway on my left, step on it.

[@PureGlide]

Good idea!

[@captarmour]

@@PureGlide thanks. thought of it years ago when I noticed even very experienced pilots land often with wrong wing down in a crosswind. I've seen even test pilots do it in videos. I realized its muscle memory to turn towards the runway with our hands kicking in, which means we need some sort of "trigger" to get our minds in gear. Interestingly I find my hand seems to automatically keep the wing down into wind when I'm "stepping on the runway". Works like a charm!

[@sidstevens9035]

Always wanted to fly in a glider until I did it. The noisiest, most uncomfortable experience of my life. Nothing like I expected

[@PureGlide]

Interesting! Getting comfy is important, we spend quite a bit of time making sure the cushions are good. Also some gliders are much quieter than others. Sounds like you had a bit of a dud!

[@flyforfun3604]

Very good video. Thank you.

[@PureGlide]

Thanks!

[@jugganaut33]

Love the way he forgets air brakes exist until 5 seconds before he hits something.

[@99kevin99]

Wow! You covered EVERYTHING in 5-minutes!! Wonderful video...would love to collaborate with YOU for sure :). No wonder you have 20K+ ...ohhh and "don't Panik!"

[@PureGlide]

Hey thanks very much!

[@michaelbrownlee9497]

The pilot was doing good, the bounce threw him off and he didnt use the rudder quick enough to keep his attitude on the tarmac. Overall he did pretty good considering he is a student and it looks like he figured out to use the rudder to avoid the bush. Ive seen experienced jumbo jet pilots land like this. A little gust of wind, ground effect, and bounce, then push hard on the stick, hard bounce and bad landing. His second bounce was pretty good recovery and landing.

[@PureGlide]

Hmm not sure I agree, looked out of control, and he did hit the bush in the end, so didn't do a good job avoiding it!

[@michaelbrownlee9497]

@@PureGlide thanks for replying, loads of stress and pressure the students are under. Youre a instructor so your opinion out ranks mine, but the training seemed too kick in. The plane hitting the tree is a very very bad thing.

[@rcpilot9963]

"Bumps-a-daisy, its enough to make you weep" 😁

[@CaptainFalc0nPunch]

I think that was a spot on visual aid of when someone mentally gets overloaded and panic.

[@PureGlide]

Thanks! And I bet I didn't look like an idiot at all

[@stevebroadbent5080]

That was a good one. Learned to fly in winch launched gliders at RNZAF Woodbourne, where I served as an engineer. Later obtained PPL with IFR privileges. Then later again, needed a helicopter due to geographic issues. So purchased one from Frank. New, because I seriously distrusted the whole idea. In the end it worked out ok but I would prefer to pilot an aeroplane, anytime. Most probably, because I was well trained in gliders very early on has a lot of influence on why I am still alive today, past 60

[@johngriffith3644]

Excuse my ignorance but aren't the "brakes" actually spoilers,to make the wing create less lift?

[@PureGlide]

Here in New Zealand we call them "Air Brakes" synonymous with spoilers.

[@johngriffith3644]

@@PureGlide I learned to fly on a wwll Taylorcraft L2M

[@donaldingraham5784]

Great advice.

[@PureGlide]

Cheers!

[@PaddyPatrone]

I would love to see his last three landings before that to get an idea of the decision making from the instructors perspective.

[@colinjacobs176]

Very good analysis and it's good how you de-emphasized the fault of the student. Obviously they messed up, but they shouldn't have put in this (rather terrifying) situation.

[@PureGlide]

Yeah exactly right!

[@e1000sn]

While it's true that nothing beats time in the air, time on a flight sim is a darn close second. Speed control, maneuvering, and procedural work can all be rehearsed in the sim until the basics become subconsious giving you conscious bandwidth for unexpected situations.

[@robertkbrooks951]

Also Fly radio Control Aircraft and we call my Club President. 14 bounce. LOL.

[@crissignori7482]

best chicken dance I've ever seen ..... well done ..... oh yes .... excellent commentary, thanks

[@PureGlide]

Thank you so much :)

[@robertschulke1596]

Great video. Reminds one that the primary responsibility of the pilot is to cause the aircraft to strike the ground in a controlled manner.

[@PureGlide]

Yes well said, the more control the better!

[@Miksa]

Your list of 6 bullet points is missing the one I think is the biggest issue, "the amount of flare". That is what was the failure on my first solo landing, I pulled the stick too much. Fortunately I managed to limit it to one "liftoff" and bring the glider down without too hard a landing. Another guy on the same glider course did the same thing and he did it hard enough to break the nose gear on the ASK-21. The basic problem is that by the time you are doing your solo, you have executed maybe 50 landings with the instructor on the back seat and the amount you need to pull the stick for the flare has been imprinted in your spine. Now you are at your first solo landing and above all the extra nervousness, when your brain decides that now is the correct timing for flare, you also need to tell your spine that this is the first you only need to pull the stick half as much as all the other times before. This is the big difference for solo flight, otherwise the glider will behave almost the same as with two people on board. How are you supposed to train for this, when during the every other landing before you will have extra weight in the cabin? The only way I had come up with was to fly with some kind of acceleration sensor with audible cue. You would practice doing flares high in the air with the instructor and during the flare the acceleration changes and the sensor would play an alternating tone based on the acceleration. Then during your first solo you would also practice flares high up, and do it until you can consistently produce the same tone. Or as an alternative method when you are nearing your solo you start doing landings with reduced amount of air brakes. This should force you to also do the flare with less stick pull, but the problem is this also trains you for a too shallow glide angle.

[@PureGlide]

Yeah good points! Same thing can happen changing gliders too. The key is the student should be experienced enough at that point to adapt to the different way it flies. And don’t try and make the early landings perfect, be prepared to land down the runway a bit. Unfortunately there’s no easy answer as everyone is different and every instructor is different.

[@jaybrackett]

I'm 74 yrs old and thinking about taking a glider training course. I have some experience flying power aircraft, but not much. I'm in good health and very active. Do you think I should go for it or give it up?

[@PureGlide]

Go for it, especially if you have some previous flying experience. We have plenty of older pilots start to learn flying. It can be a bit slower and take more time in some cases, but you can also do as much or as little as you want. You also don't have to fly solo if you don't want to, there's no reason you can't join a club and fly two seat gliders with other club members. Hope that helps! Tim

[@detlevb.732]

Just started a sniffer course at being 53 years OLD, too slow to effectively play football or basketball (but latest found an ASK21B(!) to fit into... - although having a basket ball player statue) and wonder Whether I would ever manage to land consistently or getting the A-license step with less than 111 starts. PIO are exactly my point even at calm weather and even hand-feet coordination on low bank turns is difficult, just as ending the curve without heavy POI, nose down. Etc. Worth keep on trying? It did not yet fix me after 3 starts in the rear and 5 in the front. Looking forward to open feedback. Thanks...

[@rederos8079]

Wait what? You have only 8 starts combined? That's nothing mate, never give up and you'll get there in some! Also as a very recent(first solo this year so if somebody) student(some more experienced people might think differently, listen to them and not to me) I'd say that changing from rear to front and back again is bad in the beginning at least... I've been in the backseat of the ask-21(A-model I believe) only once, but have like 32 starts in the front, and boy oh boy can I not fly it from the rear seat yet.

[@detlevb.732]

Its not the change that irritates me (rear: guest seat, doing nothing but enjoy being flown, front: sniffercourse pilot seat), its the slow progress at the front - okay, admit: 5 flights is not much... But I wonder whether this is really worth the effort, e.g. would also not insist becoming any good in lets say gymnastics... We all have our limits. So why not simply accept it...?

[@rederos8079]

@@detlevb.732 5 flights in the front is yeah, not much. And it really is worth it, it's something you can train out, not something that is just there and that's it. Try to also use trim more, that might actually help, and remember to not watch the speed but to watch the position of the horizon

[@erhardspies8779]

Can you make a video about landing on water? With a glider and with other planes?

[@PureGlide]

Ooh I’d have to find someone who’s done it. I don’t know much except it’s better to leave the gear down. And turn off the batteries, some of the electrics might be salvageable if it’s fresh water!

[@PureGlide]

Yeah that was well worth a listen, cheers

[@christopherrobinson7541]

The world championship was held in Finland many years ago. A land of a thousand lakes and billions of trees. The recommendation was to land, with the wheel down parallel to the shore. In the UK Matt Wright landed at the foot of cliffs in the sea off Cornwall. Unfortunately we cannot ask him of this experience, because he succumbed to another event. Balleka provided us with his wonderful wit and videos, he will be missed.

[@millandianne]

Great video thank you

[@PureGlide]

Glad you enjoyed it, cheers!

[@isiosi]

Really nice video. What's the name of the song in the end?

[@Johan-ex5yj]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/bYuthKCFh61sg7M

[@PureGlide]

That’s the one!

[@shaunwheeler3484]

"Touch and goes" rock. But....let he among that has never had a PIO cast the first stone.

[@PureGlide]

haha yeah I've done one too! Opening the brakes at high speed in the Discus. The manual explicitly states to watch for PIO in that situation

[@docholiday7758]

I’ll never forget my first couple of transition training hours in a twitchy high performance taildragger. Curing myself of PIO during landings was a humbling experience. That’s why they call it “training”.

[@JoJo-vm8vk]

I remember a story. An instructor sent a guy for first solo flight. And he was nervous. But that student was known for performing very well until then, one of the best student (I was too at that time). So I ask the instructor: - Why are you nervous ? He has done very well. - Yeah, that's the problem, he has never done a mistake. Sure enough my young buddy comes in for landing, good final approach (half air brakes), flare on touch dow, he retracts air brakes instead of fully extending it. So he bounces off along the runway and stop 900m (3000ft) farther down (at least he kept the axis). No damage or injury, apart from the ego 😅

[@PauloOliveira-jl8zf]

It is a common mistake to pull the stick after this situation (mainly for beginners). In my opinion, it's important to emphasize some points of doctrine: "start" a "new" landing approach: - if an aircraft, go-around procedures, - if a glider, try to "restart" your landing procedures, calmly, not bouncing again in the runway

[@PureGlide]

Yeah agreed

[@henrih3080]

You will not experience any problems if your approach speed is between 100-120 kph depending on the wind and if you have deployed your airbrakes 100% before the roundout! You need to be aware that pilot induced occilation can easily happen if you change your airbrake position very rapidly!

[@eugeniustheodidactus8890]

From a powered flight perspective, I saw a critical need for yaw control to align the glider with the runway. In your analysis.... why is rudder not used until on the ground? A bit late then, no?