SAINTS and the Protestant ONE MEDIATOR Argument [1 Tim. 2:5]

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midairfortress

midairfortress

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 437
@midairfortress-revert
@midairfortress-revert 2 ай бұрын
Simple request: please keep your comments civil, of reasonable length, and on topic. I and others on here will take the time to try and engage honest disagreement, but not ad hominems or nonsense. Thanks and love in Christ to all.
@djpodesta
@djpodesta 2 ай бұрын
@@midairfortress-revert Oh dear. Did you just accuse a concerned brother of being dishonest? It isn’t my fault that you don’t have all of the answers. Discussion beats proclamation every time. Prayers for you and your family. I just pray that you will be more open to honest critics.
@BensWorkshop
@BensWorkshop 2 ай бұрын
@@djpodesta If you mean people of good faith honestly discussing the topic at hand (what is in the video) then that is great! What isn't is people trying to discuss something not in the video without having watched any of it.
@djpodesta
@djpodesta 2 ай бұрын
@@BensWorkshop Oh. The imagined tribal assumptions seem to be flying thick and (not so) fast. Maybe you need to supply a list of appropriate questions and discussion topics prior to launching a ‘teaching video.’ That way we can all pretend to have all the answers for the _discerning_ viewer. It is not my fault that the video is an incomplete study of the topic.
@BensWorkshop
@BensWorkshop 2 ай бұрын
@@djpodesta You get that by reading the title and watching the video. Would you go into a meeting about organising a town fair to discuss the fate of the lesser spotted Amazonian parrot?
@djpodesta
@djpodesta 2 ай бұрын
@ Maybe you can address my comment without deflective rhetoric.
@hirakisk1973
@hirakisk1973 2 ай бұрын
Got to love the faulty logic when 1 Timothy 2:5 is quoted. "Mary and the Saints can't pray for you because there is one mediator". Yet, only a couple verses before that, "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men". So, St. Paul forgot what he JUST said about praying for others?
@flipneleanor7370
@flipneleanor7370 2 ай бұрын
Mary & all the Saints please pray for us, even though we often don't deserve it. Much love God bless.
@tony1685
@tony1685 2 ай бұрын
i don't believe Mary can pray for us, since she is dead. also, 'saints' in Scripture are those of us who are alive now. none in the Bible pretended to communicate with those who are dead -- Ecc 9:5
@richardcastro1276
@richardcastro1276 2 ай бұрын
@tony1685... The Virgin Mary is the only one, besides Jesus, that talks to us via private revelation. She does this via Marian Apparitions with miracles of all kinds to prove she comes from heaven. Now thousands of people show up to some of these private apparitions, but Mother Mary only talks to just the one or few people assigned. How do we know these apparitions are real, the Virgin Mary does incredible viewable miracles and predictions that come true years after. Otherwise saints interceed for us. So that one is one way communication, where we may individually receive the things we ask privately. God does miracles thousands or millions of times daily. So your statement is totally wrong. May the blood of Jesus Christ cover you because you are being strongly tempted to think and say such blasphemies. Two things you can do: show your humility and pray for discernment. You can do one more thing, and it is to attend Catholic mass, but I have a feeling this would be hard, since your heart is very hard right this minute. May you soon see the beauty of the body of Christ here on earth! Now a quick prayer for @tony1685 that his heart may open to fellow Christians and may he be protected against strong spiritual warfare. I ask this in Jesus' name: OF HM GB x 3
@Camalamadingdon
@Camalamadingdon 2 ай бұрын
@@tony1685the word “saint” refers to someone holy. They don’t necessarily have to be living on earth. All in Christ are alive as he is the God of the living. Mary, Mother of God, is alive and in the beatific vision. As such, she can pray for us.
@tony1685
@tony1685 2 ай бұрын
@@Camalamadingdon point being, there is zero support, showing we pray to any other than God. you stated: _'All in Christ are alive...'_ -- Job is dead -- Job 14:12, King David is dead -- Acts 2:29 Mary, mother of Jesus' humanity, not God's Divinity, is not alive, unless you can show her resurrected in Scripture. Ecc 9:5
@peterzinya1
@peterzinya1 2 ай бұрын
@@Camalamadingdon May i ask, why does mary have to pray to god when shes sitting right next to him on her throne? Ive always wondered that.
@NuLeif
@NuLeif 2 ай бұрын
Asking for a person or Saint (in heaven) doesn’t take away from one’s devotion to God. If it does, you are in error. “To think of those in heaven as unwilling or unable to pray for us is to have a grave misconception of heaven. It is not an isolated part of the body of Christ that exists without concern for the other members of the body who are still working out their salvation with fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12). Those in heaven surround us as a “great cloud of witnesses” (Heb. 12:1), and the book of Revelation teaches that the prayers they offer for us “saints” is an integral part of the eternal worship given to God.” - Jason Evert
@HAL9000-su1mz
@HAL9000-su1mz 2 ай бұрын
In scripture we find that we CANNOT pray "directly" to God - by His Divine plan. We see in Revelation 5:8 and 8:4 ("IF" we read it) that the Angels and Saints in heaven RECEIVE our prayers and then bear them up to the Throne of the Most High. They are INTERCESSORS! I wish "bible believers'" would stop thumping and start reading.
@djpodesta
@djpodesta 2 ай бұрын
@@HAL9000-su1mz What is the Lord’s Prayer that Jesus taught us to pray? ‘Our Father who is in heaven… for the Kingdom, the power and the glory are yours. Amen.’ My reading (not thumbing) leads me to believe that we are to pray to God; in the name of Jesus. I believe that Jesus taught the disciples/apostles to ask anything of God in his (Jesus’) name and it will be given. Isn’t that what he told Peter when Peter affirmed that Jesus was the Son of God? I am a little confused by your comment. Please help me out.
@midairfortress-revert
@midairfortress-revert 2 ай бұрын
@@NuLeif exactly - anymore than asking a Saint on earth.
@NuLeif
@NuLeif 2 ай бұрын
@@djpodesta So, we can ONLY pray the Our Father? We can’t pray any other way? We can’t ask anyone else to pray for us? This prayer is a model of how we should pray and for what things we should pray, and in what order. Glory be to him for, as we conclude this prayer at each holy Mass, his is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever!
@djpodesta
@djpodesta 2 ай бұрын
@@NuLeif Which saints do you ask to pray for you?
@LeoOrlando-yd2ut
@LeoOrlando-yd2ut 2 ай бұрын
I’m Catholic, and I don’t understand why some Protestants say Mary is dead. Do they even understand Heaven? Do they understand people in Heaven are more alive than us? The Communion of Saints is so simple. Asking saints for intercession is similar to the way they ask others to pray for them. The difference is saints are closer to God and more aligned with His will.
@ContendingEarnestly
@ContendingEarnestly 2 ай бұрын
*I’m Catholic, and I don’t understand why some Protestants say Mary is dead.* Dead in Christ. Its a perfectly biblical word. Death is a separation. Those who have died are no longer on this earth. Its that simple. *Do they understand people in Heaven are more alive than us?* Which has absolutely nothing to do with praying TO Them. They are closer to God, so what? Where does the bible say its now okay to pray TO them? It doesn't. *The Communion of Saints is so simple.* I agree. Its heretical.
@ContendingEarnestly
@ContendingEarnestly 2 ай бұрын
@gloriapatriparcedomine *I always chuckle a little.* I chuckled at this entire post. *I'm like if you think the Saints are dead then what's the point of all of this?* Sounds like you don't understand what death is. *These are the same people that say faith alone is all we need but skip over James 2 and Rev 20.* There is a context to sola fide, James 2 and Rev 20. Youre mixing them up. *The same people that say John 6 is symbolic even though Jesus never said so.* John 6 has nothing to do with the Lords Table first of all and when He did have the Passover meal with His disciples He didn't need to say the bread and wine are symbols. The entire meal is symbolic. All He is showing them is how to remember Him after He is gone. *The same people who have rock concerts for "worship" but ignore early writings by Christians explaining how to worship.* We don't have rock concerts and yes some are over the top gaudy. But false piety isn't worship either. God knows who is truly worshiping and who isn't. *The same people that yell 'sola scriptura' but fail (or refuse) to recognize the Catholic Church (guided by God, yes) put the Bible together.* Thats a non sequitur. Who put the bible together has nothing to do with sola scriptura. And it wasn't your church. *What did Christians do for 300+ years without the Holy Bible if we can only rely on the Holy Bible?* The first bound volumes appeared approx 350ad. That doesn't mean no one had the scriptures. There were lists of letters, books going back to the first century. Early writers like Origen and Tertullian cited the scriptures literally 1000's of times. Between those two alone you could easily reproduce the n.t. Long before the 4th century even begins. *But then we have to ask which version of the Bible. For 1200 years Christians used the same Bible.* Really? Gonna stick with that? What about the texts with 3rd or 4th Maccabees? Or the Shepherd of Hemas or the letter to the Laodiceans? Some had them, some didn't. The ones with the apocrypha didn't mean they were there because they were inspired. Just good to read just like Jerome said. *It was Luther that removed books after being excommunicated for heresy.* Now youre showing your ignorance of Luther. Please cite a reputable source where Luther removed anything. I'd love to read it.
@jonatasmachado7217
@jonatasmachado7217 2 ай бұрын
The communion of Saints is an awsome Catholic Biblical doctrine! The intercession of the Saints is just a (theo)logical part of it.
@HAL9000-su1mz
@HAL9000-su1mz 2 ай бұрын
A recipient of grace via the intercession of the Saints.
@tony1685
@tony1685 2 ай бұрын
@@HAL9000-su1mz can you show where it's done in Scripture please? from what i read, aside from Jesus, Moses, Enoch & Elijah, we have no idea who is in Heaven and since it's the majority who will be raised at Jesus' 2nd coming, it's not wise nor Biblical to pretend to communicate with any other than God, via prayer. thanks in advance!
@marknovetske4738
@marknovetske4738 2 ай бұрын
We can through the knowledge and authority of the church.... when the keys are given by Christ to his ministers in Mathew . If the church judges someone to be worthy of heaven by the careful study of their lives after their death ,then we can be confident that those saints are indeed present with God,and able to advocate for our needs. If you can trust the church to tell you what books are the inspired books that make up the Bible...then I think you can trust them to "judge" rightly who has lived the faith well enough to be in heaven. That's my thoughts on your question
@tony1685
@tony1685 2 ай бұрын
@@marknovetske4738 careful friend, this 'church' doesn't meet God's criteria -- see 1 Tim 3:15, John 14:15, 1 John 2:3-4, etc it doesn't fit and isn't qualified.
@HAL9000-su1mz
@HAL9000-su1mz 2 ай бұрын
@@tony1685 Stop stalking, SDA STALKER!
@vinciblegaming6817
@vinciblegaming6817 2 ай бұрын
Through our baptism and in our abiding with Christ in sacrament and devotion, our wills are being transformed and conformed to God’s will, with full unity of our will to God’s will the ultimate goal… which is sainthood. Thank you for your videos.
@BensWorkshop
@BensWorkshop 2 ай бұрын
Great episode! Can't wait for people saying you are wrong without watching the video.
@NuLeif
@NuLeif 2 ай бұрын
Yup!
@BensWorkshop
@BensWorkshop 2 ай бұрын
@@_ready__ Did you watch the video? I do not recall beads being mentioned.
@essafats5728
@essafats5728 2 ай бұрын
​@@_ready__dispensationalist, christian juvenile, in the house
@midairfortress-revert
@midairfortress-revert 2 ай бұрын
@@BensWorkshop they never disappoint
@richardcastro1276
@richardcastro1276 2 ай бұрын
@BensWorkshop... You are incredibly right... they jump right in to say Anti-Catholic things WITHOUT watching anything in the video at all. Then they start making the general Anti-Catholic comments just to strike at us Catholics. A bit annoying. There are a few Anti-Catholic that are starting to get known. But the video presenter always, does an incredible job using bible verses and for us Catholics the Cathecism as well as writings from the early fathers. So the video presenter, does the best he can with solid bible verses and then reinforces it with tradition (Cathecism & early fathers). Tackles both audiences, although our wonderful separated brethren only like their own Man-made traditions ( no Holy Spirit involved). Woops, I better be careful not to judge. Only trying to judge the practices of the false Gospels. What is it that Protestants call it without calling it tradition? In other words, what do they call their traditions without calling them traditions? Is it sometimes the crazy idea of a parallel secret church that did keep the true Gospel? A secret church with no evidence of existance ....
@Rue1008
@Rue1008 2 ай бұрын
That was a very clear explanation, Gerard, and also very timely. I will be sharing this. God bless 🙏
@midairfortress-revert
@midairfortress-revert 2 ай бұрын
@ZWAYTOLIFE way to stay on topic. That’s like blaming Paul in writing to the Philippians for not including the same exact arguments he made to the Corinthians. These type of “I’ve got a Bible verse that disproves everything just said” type of “arguments” make Protestants look foolish. You can do better than that. Make an actual argument and stay on topic.
@Saul2PaulCatholic
@Saul2PaulCatholic 2 ай бұрын
In the Summa Theologica, Aquinas explains that the saints and Mary participate in Christ’s mediation in a derivative way. They do not stand between humanity and God in an independent sense but rather as members of the Body of Christ, participating in His mediatory role. When we ask saints to pray for us, we are not bypassing Christ but are instead relying on the power of His grace that works through His saints. Their intercession is a way of amplifying our prayers to God through the unity of the Church and the communion of saints, as they “assist” in prayer by presenting our needs to God through their prayers. So, while Christ is indeed the only essential mediator between humanity and God, Aquinas allows that others may intercede for us in a secondary, intercessory capacity, always dependent upon and in union with Christ’s primary mediation. This aligns with Catholic teachings on the communion of saints, where the faithful believe that members of the Church, both in heaven and on earth, are united in Christ and can intercede for each other as part of God’s family. When Protestants say that Jesus ALONE is our mediator in PRAYER, that is somewhat disingenuous. True, Jesus is our sole mediator in salvation, but not in prayer.
@NuLeif
@NuLeif 2 ай бұрын
100% agreed. I love Aquinas! Thank you for your comment.
@midairfortress-revert
@midairfortress-revert 2 ай бұрын
solid comment - thank you. extra kudos for citing the Angelic Doctor!
@HAL9000-su1mz
@HAL9000-su1mz 2 ай бұрын
We are Christ's Body. The head listens to the Body and is inseparable from it.
@julianalindh
@julianalindh 2 ай бұрын
I appreciate the format of the video, showing both sides of the argument equally. From an evangelical considering Catholicism, this is very helpful.
@jennyharris8050
@jennyharris8050 2 ай бұрын
I really appreciate your channel and your work! Thank you
@myronmercado
@myronmercado 2 ай бұрын
Based. Always loving your videos.
@halleylujah247
@halleylujah247 20 күн бұрын
I appreciate how thorough you were in your explanation.
@ChristineMcg
@ChristineMcg 2 ай бұрын
Very precise video. Thank you. Jesus I trust in you🙏
@HAL9000-su1mz
@HAL9000-su1mz 2 ай бұрын
This must be the most abused verse in all of the sprinkling of verses that we hear. And NEVER in context!
@midairfortress-revert
@midairfortress-revert 2 ай бұрын
@@HAL9000-su1mz it’s just tossed out there like it’s a mic drop. Protestants think they found a verse the Church has never seen.
@HAL9000-su1mz
@HAL9000-su1mz 2 ай бұрын
@@midairfortress-revert I reply from Tobit or Wisdom of Solomon. Christ is our Head and we are His Body. Does not the Head listen to the Body?
@NuLeif
@NuLeif 2 ай бұрын
Irenaeus of Lyons (AD202): “Since, therefore, the name of the Son belongs to the Father, and since in the omnipotent God the Church makes offerings through Jesus Christ, He says well on both these grounds, "And in every place incense is offered to My name, and a pure sacrifice. "Now John, in the Apocalypse, declares that the "incense "is "the prayers of the saints."
@tonyl3762
@tonyl3762 2 ай бұрын
WHO GAVE HIMSELF AS A RANSOM FOR ALL. Protestants never finish the sentence, the next verse. He is the only mediator who gave himself as a ransom for all. Lots of mediators in the Church but not who give themselves as a ransom.
@midairfortress-revert
@midairfortress-revert 2 ай бұрын
@@tonyl3762 excellent point sir!
@ContendingEarnestly
@ContendingEarnestly 2 ай бұрын
What verse would that be?
@tony1685
@tony1685 2 ай бұрын
not seeing the point actually.
@tonyl3762
@tonyl3762 2 ай бұрын
@@ContendingEarnestly LOL, could it be verse 6, the words of which are in ALL CAPS at the very beginning of my comment?
@tonyl3762
@tonyl3762 2 ай бұрын
@@tony1685 The point is that the whole sentence in context does NOT say that Jesus is the only mediator; it says He is the only mediator _who gave himself as a ransom for all._ He is the only mediator in a very specific sense, in the sense of obtaining the possibility of forgiveness and reconciliation for us by His self-sacrifice. He is not the only person we can petition for help and intercession though.
@sodetsurikomigoshi2454
@sodetsurikomigoshi2454 2 ай бұрын
we pray to the Saints to make God happy that His children are loving towards each other, helping each other, and are united as One Body. This is the real joy of any Parent. Protestants don't get it because their sense of Prayer is a TRANSACTIONAL PETITION FOR SELF-ENRICHMENT. All they care about is "being saved" and being so righteous that they can never lose their Salvation.
@surabra
@surabra 2 ай бұрын
The faith of a righteous man availeth much
@HAL9000-su1mz
@HAL9000-su1mz 2 ай бұрын
It grants him the desire to fully comply with Christ's commands so as to have life within him.
@AndrewLane-pm2ro
@AndrewLane-pm2ro 2 ай бұрын
The Catholic Church is a mediator between God and men bcoz the Church is the "fulness" of Christ (Eph 1:22-23).
@christinacastillon6439
@christinacastillon6439 2 ай бұрын
Great video!! Thank you!
@MrJohnmartin2009
@MrJohnmartin2009 2 ай бұрын
The persistent protest against all Catholic doctrine shows how separating the Church's authority from biblical exegesis always ends in incompetence and heresy. A competent exegete must first consult and accept all Catholic dogma before exegeting any biblical text. The Protestant theologian's occasional acceptance of only some Catholic dogmas centred on the Trinity and Christology and biblical inspiration is insufficient to correctly understand the biblical text. The one mediator argument ignores the mediation of all authors who wrote the text and the church who canonised the text. And contrarily, because the entire bible is Catholic, I suggest 1 Tim 2:5 references Jesus' high priestly intercession in the Eucharistic liturgy and the faithful praying for each other in the same liturgy. Modern biblical exegesis has a propensity to ignore the possibility of a liturgical context of every letter when the entire biblical text was routinely utilised within the Eucharistic liturgy. Inspiration of the biblical text is a multi-faceted mystery, including the liturgical use of the text, creating an interdependent synergy between inspiration and the Eucharistic liturgy.
@midairfortress-revert
@midairfortress-revert 2 ай бұрын
@@MrJohnmartin2009 great insight. Thank you.
@NuLeif
@NuLeif 2 ай бұрын
Very well said. Reading through your comment again. Excellent points!
@HAL9000-su1mz
@HAL9000-su1mz 2 ай бұрын
Protestantism is founded on the sand of the human ego. It exploits the bible and pays lip service to Christ, but is pure ego.
@patrickho9007
@patrickho9007 2 ай бұрын
Basically Catholics, orthodox & protestants all say this is the way, that is the way to interpret the Bible. It only take Faith and Grace of the Holy spirit to take us through the interpretations. If one is illiterate, like 12% of the world's population, they'll have a hard time reading the bible, then again, of the 88% , majority may not be christians, so to say the bible is the sole authority and that we have to follow it strictly, who has the right interpretation? For me, i choose to follow the interpretation dictated by the Majesterium. No ifs or buts. If you want to believe in your protestant Pastor, so be it. But to say Catholics are going to hell etc etc, you'd better judge within your side of Christiandom, the 40 000 or so.
@Anti-pro73
@Anti-pro73 2 ай бұрын
All I can say is that “all” doesn’t mean all and oftentimes is followed by an exception. Ex. All but one who were healed returned. All have returned to work except the plumbers. “All” is often used not to refer to the entirety of a whole but to introduce an exception, actually. “All in all” is an idiom meaning a majority or mostly, but still not 100% unless used mathematically. And that’s all.
@Nick-rb1dc
@Nick-rb1dc 2 ай бұрын
I think people overlook the most basic point of Paul. There was at one time One Mediator, his name was Moses. When Jesus arrived, He took the place of Moses. Paul is going after the Judaizers.
@ContendingEarnestly
@ContendingEarnestly 2 ай бұрын
*There was at one time One Mediator, his name was Moses.* Where does the o.t. call Moses the one mediator or only mediator in the o.t.?
@Nick-rb1dc
@Nick-rb1dc 2 ай бұрын
@ContendingEarnestly the Greek word mediator used in 2v5 is used five other verses: Galatians 3v19-20, Heb 8v6, Heb 9v15, Heb 12v24. All these are talking about the Old Covenant versus the New Covenant, and saying Jesus is the new/better mediator.
@ContendingEarnestly
@ContendingEarnestly 2 ай бұрын
@@Nick-rb1dc The verses in Galatians is referring specifically to the o.t. covenant. The others in 1 Tim and Hebrews are speaking of the new covenant. Apples and oranges. Jesus is 'the' mediator, the only mediator we have. Nothing in the n.t. suggests otherwise.
@Nick-rb1dc
@Nick-rb1dc 2 ай бұрын
@@ContendingEarnestly the Catholic Encyclopedia says on the Mediator article that: "Moses, however, is the proper mediator of the Old Testament (Galatians 3:19-20)." Paul was deeply enmeshed in Old Testament concepts, so "mediator" was not some new idea, nor was it some abstract philosophy. Moses was the mediator of the Old Covenant, and now Jesus is the mediator of the New. The Greek verb indicates that Jesus is NOW the mediator, not that there was only one mediator in all of history. To be sure, Jesus mediates "in a more excellent way" as Moses was mostly just a Type.
@po18guy-s4s
@po18guy-s4s 2 ай бұрын
The first verse 'bible believers' should read: 2 Peter 3:16. The second: 2 Peter 1:20.
@G-ew9hv
@G-ew9hv 2 ай бұрын
Can you interpret those verses please
@po18guy-s4s
@po18guy-s4s 2 ай бұрын
For those who are not trolls, correct Christian interpretation my be found at the Rev. George Leo Haydock Bible Commentary, available online.
@G-ew9hv
@G-ew9hv 2 ай бұрын
@@po18guy-s4s thank you. I will check it out.
@G-ew9hv
@G-ew9hv 2 ай бұрын
@ I reviewed some of it and it is full of false doctrine. I would avoid but each one has his own choice and free will unto his understanding. Grace and peace
@richardcastro1276
@richardcastro1276 2 ай бұрын
Not within the topic of Gerard's video presentation. Verse thrown up on the discussion with no context in regard to topic at hand. Please stay on topic.
@SergioSalazar-r4e
@SergioSalazar-r4e 2 ай бұрын
Great job but is hard for Protestant to understand are documents and the best way to REFUTE Protestant doctrine is to refute SOLA SCRIPTURE and is real simple!!!! VOICE of REASON at KZbin is really good about all this and also he have a DEBATE vs James White take a look 🙏
@G-ew9hv
@G-ew9hv 2 ай бұрын
What is your salvation process?
@SergioSalazar-r4e
@SergioSalazar-r4e 2 ай бұрын
⁠@@G-ew9hvmy salvation is about believe Jesus but also I believe Him and he’s DOCTRINE and stay in his CHURCH… JHON 6:51-59 l believe Him!!! 1 Timothy 3:15 which is the CHURCH of the living GOD
@SergioSalazar-r4e
@SergioSalazar-r4e 2 ай бұрын
About he’s CHURCH… Ephesians 3:10. Ephesians 3:21 About he’s DOCTRINE… Romans 16:17. 1 Timothy 6:3. 2 Peter 1:19-21
@SergioSalazar-r4e
@SergioSalazar-r4e 2 ай бұрын
Remember the CATHOLIC CHURCH brings up the FIRST BIBLE with 73 books in the year of 382 with the POPE DÁMASO and stays with 73 books more then 1200 years. Can you have a Protestant church or a list a pastor name at the early years??? If you can’t find one the Protestant do not have BIBLICAL FOUNDATION , be careful if you think the FAITH along keep you safe!!!!!
@SergioSalazar-r4e
@SergioSalazar-r4e 2 ай бұрын
We have a APOLOGY PRIEST he’s name is LUIS TORO he loves to REFUTE all Protestant doctrines with the ESV bible (66 books) he is the best APOLOGIST in the world and helps the Protestant come to the HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH 🙏🙏🙏🙏
@djpodesta
@djpodesta 2 ай бұрын
I thought that the Gospels outlined prayer, fasting and forgiveness as being a fairly simple process. Why complicate things? ‘Lord, teach us to pray.’ and ‘When you pray, say these things.’ - The Lord’s Prayer. By using Jesus’ model, I found that I could commune with God for hours. All in Jesus’ name, as Jesus supposedly taught Peter (and disciples) at Caesarea Philippi. And Paul? Was he teaching the living or the departed? Pray for each other or ask a dearly departed to pray for me?
@midairfortress-revert
@midairfortress-revert 2 ай бұрын
@@djpodesta what is so complicated about asking someone else to pray for you?
@djpodesta
@djpodesta 2 ай бұрын
@@midairfortress-revert I appreciate your question. Can you confirm that the dearly departed soul has actually passed on your prayer request; or intercession to Jesus? You have one commenter here believing that the scriptures teach that we cannot approach God directly. How could he have come to such a conclusion? I have had another believer (different topic but same complication) try to tell me that we do not need to repent from our sins; appealing to a buried clause in the catechism. There isn’t anything complicated about asking somebody to pray for you, but adding all these complex interpretations to various portions of scripture just confuses the nominal believer; and leads them to try to interpret the interpretation of scripture. (Another unnecessary layer of interpretation) - ‘Baffle them with b.s.’ In the end, some just give up trying to understand and blindly nod their head in agreement. What happened to Thomas Aquinas’ faith and reason? What happened to St Paul’s charge to be like the Bereans? - ‘Confirm all things.’ I think that the Lord’s Prayer is pretty straight forward and not in need of scholarly interpretation. 1. Before coming to God, make things right with your brother; offering and seeking practical earthly forgiveness. 2. Offer your worshipful sacrifice to God; whether communally or in private. 3. Make your requests to God; especially for the _needs_ of a fellow brother, sister or non-believer in Jesus’ name. 4. Continually repeat the above while waiting for God the Holy Spirit to answer; or not, your prayer; according to the Will of God. In everything, be selfless; while also being discerning.
@midairfortress-revert
@midairfortress-revert 2 ай бұрын
@ 1) citing false claims made by commenters are not defrosters of my claims, any more than I would guess you would consider exegetical chaos in evangelicalism being a defeated of your theology. 2) no one is complicating anything; we’re actually making a pretty straight forward claim taking scripture seriously; 3) scripture itself is complicated, if you don’t believe me ask Peter; sometimes it requires complex explanation. The Trinitarianism and Christology of the church should be enough to demonstrate that. The Lord’s Prayer is beautiful, so much so we Catholics recite it together every mass, and most of us every day even several times a day. It’s an odd argument to use against a Catholic.
@djpodesta
@djpodesta 2 ай бұрын
@@midairfortress-revert Are you assuming that I am not Catholic and do not understand the complexities of our faith? Wouldn’t it be better to have all believing commenters on the same page? Unity in understanding?
@djpodesta
@djpodesta 2 ай бұрын
@@midairfortress-revert Again. Can you confirm that a dearly departed saint has passed on your prayer request?
@ContendingEarnestly
@ContendingEarnestly 2 ай бұрын
I got about 10 minutes in and had to stop. You were wrong at about the 1 minute mark. You think, wrongly that mediator and intercession are synonyms. They aren't. Prayer, petition, supplication, intercession and thanksgiving are all synonyms. Mediator isn't a synonym for any of those. So every time you say mediator is the same as intercessor, youre wrong. So the first part of 1 Tim 2 Paul is listing synonyms; 1Tim 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, Cross reference Phil 4 Phil 4:6 do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. There are 5 synonyms for prayer and mediator isn't one of them so your argument falls on its face rather quickly. Here is 1 Tim 2:5 1Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, In this verse there is no; prayer, intercession....just mediator. Here is the greek. 1Tim 2:5 *εις γαρ θεος εις και μεσιτης* θεου και ανθρωπων ανθρωπος χριστος ιησους Catch that? In the same breath Paul says 'one God, one mediator.' The greek word one/eis has a number of meanings. In this context it means one God to the exclusion of all others and one mediator to the exclusion of all others. Interceding isn't mediating. The greek word mesites only occurs a handful of times in the n.t. and never for anyone other than Jesus. The reference in Gal 3 is an o.t. reference not the new covenant. That greek word is never used for anyone other than Jesus. There is only one mediator and its not you or anyone else on the planet past, present or future except Jesus.
@johnosumba1980
@johnosumba1980 2 ай бұрын
You are wrong and it is the pride which has taken you hostage, thinking you know but you don’t know.
@NuLeif
@NuLeif 2 ай бұрын
Ten minutes in and you stopped watching?
@midairfortress-revert
@midairfortress-revert 2 ай бұрын
@@ContendingEarnestly perhaps you should have stayed for another 27 minutes before drawing conclusions?
@midairfortress-revert
@midairfortress-revert 2 ай бұрын
@@ContendingEarnestlyyou would think with a handle like “contend earnestly” that you would contend more earnestly. Go back and finish the video where I explain in some detail (as much as a brief video will allow) the church’s actual teaching on Christ’s mediation and how we share in it. I welcome your comments once you’ve done that.
@ContendingEarnestly
@ContendingEarnestly 2 ай бұрын
@@midairfortress-revert Why, did you correct yourself?
@normmcinnis4102
@normmcinnis4102 2 ай бұрын
Misunderstanding "saints" here..
@HAL9000-su1mz
@HAL9000-su1mz 2 ай бұрын
Check your ego please.
@Leonardo-ts5on
@Leonardo-ts5on 2 ай бұрын
Jesus didn't come to people and tell them about himself he send someone and gave them authority to sheeperd his flock. And this what Jesus said. Whoever deny you deny me and deny the one who sent me. You cannot go directly to Jesus.
@EPH113
@EPH113 2 ай бұрын
You can’t go directly to Jesus via prayer?
@Leonardo-ts5on
@Leonardo-ts5on 2 ай бұрын
@EPH113 Jesus said He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. JOHN 13:20 KJV. Thats becsuse he didn't go to the world to proclaim himself only to the jews but instead he send his apostle to proclaim to the world(gentile) his salvation and we must believe him that he sent and there is no other apostolic succession out there other than Catholic religion.
@midairfortress-revert
@midairfortress-revert 2 ай бұрын
@@Leonardo-ts5on that’s neither Catholic nor biblical. Where are you getting this?
@Leonardo-ts5on
@Leonardo-ts5on 2 ай бұрын
@midairfortress-revert The question is where you can find in the bible where Jesus gone to the end world to proclaim himself to the gentile after he was raisin? He sent his apostle to the gentile not him personally and you must obey them that he sent. " Verily verily I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. "JOHN 13:20 And there is no other apostolic succession out there other than catholic faith so don't tell me that it's not biblical nor catholic doctrine.
@EPH113
@EPH113 2 ай бұрын
@@Leonardo-ts5on you can’t go directly to Jesus in prayer? Yes or no?
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