Sajam Talks Complaining About Cheap Characters

[@KruxisV]

No joke, complaining about characters is approximately half my enjoyment of the genre.

[@chrisr1091]

KruxisV this is me but with team shooters. I don’t feel like that with fighting games tho.

[@garretwoeller7669]

True

[@ProtozTer]

Try for HONOR, you will complain on every character, everyone is so unique that its like gimmick vs gimmick.

[@KruxisV]

@@ProtozTer I played For Honor in beta and on release. Trust me, much was complained about. Unfortunately I found myself complaining more about the game than the characters, so I dropped it.

[@MoldMonkey93]

Yeah because it's interesting to see the ratio between who agrees and who disagrees with you. I make friends like this actually.

[@matilyn_rf]

"No one complained about 3s Chun" is hilarious lmao

[@mothra727]

People still complain about her

[@notesscrotes4360]

The whole reason Moment 34 was such a huge pop was that people despised Chun and the way Justin played her.

[@Hitorio]

@@notesscrotes4360 You just Rule 34'd EVO Moment 37 by typing it as "Moment 34."

[@notesscrotes4360]

@@Hitorio Please bear with me I'm hornie. :(

[@Hitorio]

@@notesscrotes4360 That is not a bad thing!

[@tgr3423]

I love it when people hate low tier characters with extremely unorthodox play styles. It always leads to hilarious arguments and conversations.

[@kristopherstrickland5960]

Ive never really seen that in smash or in any other fighters? Its more of people complaining about top tiers or Joker

[@Patcheresu]

@@kristopherstrickland5960 sajam just listed a few like Elena

[@BacchusGames]

@@kristopherstrickland5960 Amsa playing yoshi

[@kristopherstrickland5960]

BacchusGames I see more love for it than hate? I also dont even think yoshi is bad enough to be considered low tier

[@BacchusGames]

@@kristopherstrickland5960 You see love for yoshi because of amsa, not the character. As a quote from mango "If hbox and amsa switched mains, we would love jiggs and fucking despise yoshi. All the character does is crouch cancel and play lame." things of that sort.

[@yvastel8153]

Heard it as "SALTsui no Hadou" which is pretty accurate, I guess.

[@justjuniorjaw]

It's an old term, and it still is relevant today.

[@Gigadriller]

Before every CvS2 akuma arcade run i eat some healthy meat with SALTsui no hadou

[@Rickermaniac]

Chat: Noone complained about chun li on third strike Sajam: someone shoot that guy Damn, true though, a lot of people online play less games with chun than other characters, just a fact, people do complaint about her, since it is not fun playing against a good one.

[@PinkalPeaches]

They definitely were trolling for that reaction. Literally everyone, including Chun players, complain about Chun.

[@Yautah]

@ The few honest ones do.

[@keylimecookies]

Third strike is hilarious because nobody picks chun li online, because nobody wants to win that bad

[@myboy_]

@@keylimecookies true gentlemen

[@Se7enRemain]

Ken-Chun is super fun. Yun-Chun is super fun. Chun just bodies every other character. Dudley, Urien, Akuma, Ryu, Oro, Hugo, Makoto. Chun Li will fuck you. Fuck this dumbass character and their dumbass super

[@bangzell6885]

Sajam learning the "Someone shoot that guy" secret Discord tech? Hey, alright.

[@powerup931]

shut the fuck up kid and thanks

[@tmerchead1]

Keep it down will ya ?

[@shunthanos]

Dem Aris notes hahaha

[@jacksuwanpradit6992]

Akuma has won in practically every universe he’s in. SFII, SF Alpha, Marvel, Street Fighter IV and Tekken lol He’s the ultimate champion. He should be in Smash too. See what might happen. Ryu on the other hand, has a really sad life (in SFV).

[@beganfish]

Ryu is almost always top tier at the start of a game and steadily nerfed to become mid tier. SF2, SF4 and SFV he was top tier on launch.

[@matrix3509]

Akuma has won? Wat? Akuma is a "murderer" who's body count is literally zero. His one successful murder, Gouken, was then retconned. He's the world's most useless villain.

[@MH_Zard]

matrix3509 Except Akuma isnt a Villain xP

[@jacksuwanpradit6992]

matrix3509 Lol good stuff But I’m talking about video game tournaments. He was almost banned in SF2 Turbo, Infiltration used Akuma in SF4 and cheap killed everyone at EVO. Justin Wong used him in Ultimate Marvel, and Tokido won EVO with Akuma a few years ago in SFV. So he is the champion of every universe. There is only one other character who can match Akuma’s skill. . . . Yeah, his name is Gouki

[@watersports1381]

he is in smash though

[@missilewan]

talking about cheap charas is a universal bnb

[@crome2021]

I see GT Goku in my nightmares.

[@powerup931]

GT Goku is straight up kinda killing Fighter Z for me. Something Bardock, vanilla cell, vanilla Growhan, or even kid buu has done

[@mfrebel7831]

And now is U.I.

[@rikibdgd4764]

ssj4 gogeta says goodbye

[@meatymateo705]

@@STIR-FRIED-SUBWAY-RAT ssj4 isnt even that top tier, if you let him get lvl 7 then you just got outplayed

[@kholdkhaos64ray11]

I love it when people talk about cheap characters because those lead to the funniest targeted posts and memes.

[@piranhaplant8483]

Memes are the tools that bring hand together

[@ghettokenyan]

Just backdash bro

[@hockey1973]

Bro, just block.

[@CLW1994]

Just hold forward,bro

[@hipsterroxas2626]

Just 2H bro

[@mitzi3262]

Just don't get grabbed bro

[@dio8914]

Just don't get hit bro

[@mallow2902]

I totally feel the point about top tier characters being really fun to play because they have the most options. Melee Fox and Falco are both crazy fun to play and watch because of how many options you have access to with them and how differently each person can play them.

[@Sicknificant1]

Mk11 I mained liu kang since day 1 and knew he was really good. It was highlighted how good he was after the other characters were nerfed. I cant play a single game without even my friends bitching about him. Took the enjoyment out of it big time. Also... mk11 is the cheapest fighting game I've ever played. The risk reward for people doing random stuff is so out of whack. I dont give two craps if you think my character is cheap when every character has cheap stuff, and the mechanics of the game are cheap on their own.

[@DADRB0B55]

I play Kang too lol I am just like bro you play Geras. Jax, Sonya like get outta here hypocrite lmao

[@weaver7683]

EnjoiThis “and the mechanics of the game are cheap on their own” *Flashbacks to all the random fatal blows i got hit by*

[@El-Burrito]

I had this in injustice playing Bane against friends

[@Gigadriller]

Just like the entire MK franchise

[@hongodongo9053]

@@Gigadriller remember mk9 kung lao, just think about spin for a while. It was a semi safe invincible reversal and a launcher. How in the fuck does that happen. Perfect legend really had his work cut out for him.

[@revelant]

The main problem with taking characters who did something cheap to you in match to training mode, is, if you dont have the character as such with DLC. You cant lab it. Then you just have to learn while getting beat.

[@revelant]

My suggestion is that all characters should be avaliable in training mode. Just for testing and prepurchase testing if you want him/her.

[@skittlz111]

THIS!!!! this shit needs to change for FG's. I shouldn't have to pay 20-30$ on top of the cost of the game to learn how to play against a character. YOU NEED TO HAVE ALL THE CHARACTERS AVAILABLE IN TRAINING MODE

[@noboty4168]

Yeah. Can't exactly practice against Geese without coughing up cash, which I refuse to do, nor should I be expected to.

[@kinginthenorth1437]

If you are the kind of person who plays the game so much that you've labbed most of the main roster and want to lab the dlc it doesn't seem entirely unfair to ask you to give the developer a little extra support for the game you play so much. Online training modes are another great feature that NRS provides that a lot of games don't. Then you just need an online friend with the dlc and you can lab the match up or even try out the character. Sony's share play also allows you to lab a character if you can talk an online friend into letting you lab on there machine.

[@tobyvision]

@@kinginthenorth1437 I would agree except that most DLC characters are objectively cheap or better than the cast at their own launch. Sometimes they get balanced a month later, sometimes they don't. It's manipulative and gross.

[@Kushina-43]

This is my first time watching your vids and I was expecting to roll my eyes like usual but a lot of your opinions are pretty close to my own (though you have much wider FG knowledge) My favorite part is how you explicitly say both simple characters shouldn't be weak and execution shouldn't be the only barrier, because I've seen too many people complain when a mechanically complex character isn't immediately top tier OR claim people are scrubs for complaining about an overpowered top tier who has an execution barrier I.e. Fox in Melee & PM

[@ddranimestyle]

Third Strike in an interesting example of this. SF3 is a pretty mechanically complex game overall, but Chun Li and Yun are the top 2 characters despite Chun being mechanically simple and Yun having some of the craziest combos out of the cast.

[@Ormsen]

@@ddranimestyle This and the fact several characters having 1 hit k.o.´s that are actually almost imposible to execute until some guys actually did pulled them off is a testament to the game´s complexity and reward/skill ceiling. Like, Q or Makoto dunking you may be hard but them doin it requires no small amount of skill

[@NoirLouisStream]

Considering my mindset, I’m more into resourceful play than mashing buttons and long combos. Coincidentally, this is the best birthday gift I could have, thanks Sajam!

[@malapertfourohfour2112]

When you started talking about execution vs decision-making as difficulty barriers you just got the nail on the head as to why I find Jin fun as fuck but then all the regular Mishimas just bore me to tears, both to play as and fight against. 💜

[@Gigadriller]

Our situation is Very similar my friend,only difference is that my problem is with potemkim,zato,guile,zangief,and some others characters but mostly graplers,all that while enjoying characters like Jam and beowulf for whatever reason.

[@scarletsabbath9973]

I miss the days when people complained about my characters

[@PlagueFather]

I love Akuma, so I think it's so funny and great that he's top in 2 games simultaneously.

[@TonyTheTGR]

He really is just the masterful execution of the basic BnB stuff. Mixing up scrubs into eternal hangtime.

[@PinkalPeaches]

lol, I called Elena being "that character" after playing her for 5 minutes. She has a move that heals you, and you can charge it by taking damage or with focus attacks lol. What could possibly go wrong?

[@KizzyV]

SuperAkuma isn’t bad he just doesn’t travel

[@simongotborg3866]

0:45 - "whoever is themost powerful character will be bitched about" Something I find really interesting about about Fox in Melee is that he has been considered the best character for over 10 years but he doesn't get very much hate. Like, there are more casual spectators complaining about Fox than there are players who dislike the match-up. Probably because fox is hard enough that he doesn't feel unfair untill you're already very good at the game. The characters people hate are the ones who are simple, doesn't take a lot execution and forces the opponent to play slowly (Puff being a perfect example).

[@Oakwin_mb]

fox and falco being the majority of players is definitely the reason for this.

[@simongotborg3866]

@@Oakwin_mb Well yes, kind of. Fox & Falco are the most common characters but whenever I've tried to do the math it's like 20% Fox & 10% Falco (30% combined). It's a lot of players, for sure, but most people don't play either of them and normally people complain more about the popular characters.

[@asgarzigel]

I think a big part of the frustration is that a lot of people tend to copy the top players and you just see the same character over and over again. On the plus side, you can just play a low tier and feel morally superior even if you suck at the game :P

[@shanerpressley]

2:07 This is pure gold

[@TonyTheTGR]

ONLINE. CHANGED. EVERYTHING. Arcade days, you had your crew and you learned directly from matches with one another; and maybe you saw one event a year like Evo and even that took until after 2002 to happen. So finding tech took forever, unlike say, the PS3 era where everything had online, we started to have KZbin and Twitch channels, and access to crazy tech became widely available. Marvel 2 is distilled to the handful NOW because it took six years to tear everything in it apart (and two just to unlock the f'ing characters to begin with in most places)... I remember when it was Strider/Doom the unstoppable, and then most people would pick a Cyclops or Akuma to augment them with. People cared about options, but not particulars like frame data and safety. We're just WAAAAAY overeducated on fighting game design and expertise at this point, and we've missed the whole "pick up the game and play it" appeal that we used to bring with ourselves. We've turned our favorite fictional worlds into applied algebra and free homework. Fun homework, yes; but still homework.

[@FrankEPhresh69]

I really like these videos. You bring up a lot of good points

[@egebamyasi2929]

Gotta say out of all the games I've played Melee Fox is the top tier who's the most fun to play as, to be honest. You can just press so many buttons

[@samuelalphabet5360]

I think a huge part of it is that Fox is *so* complicated and has *so* many options that even if you're watching a 2019 tournament of someone who's competed for a decade you can still be surprised by some of the stuff they do people complain a lot more about jigglypuff n part of that is cuz everybody already knows all the cheap stuff puff does so its just "oof another rest setup wow"

[@benji417]

MVC2's top 4 is as fun IMO.

[@D-W-N-Xsist]

Up throw Up air

[@aeroman911]

@@samuelalphabet5360 oof just another shine out of shield into grab. Every character is repetitive and boring if you dont enjoy them.

[@pinkstarmona1695]

Thanks doc

[@ApexGale]

If Wagner gets nerfed in UNICLR and Eltnum doesn't I have a feeling she's gonna be next on the chopping block, people are already complaining about her

[@LuminousHeart-o7z]

Honestly we should be used to Akuma bullying 95% of the cast in Street Fighter games (and Tekken 7 to a lesser extent) by now, it's basically a tradition at this point

[@lordjimbo2]

Capcom knows what sells.

[@michaelmcdermott1624]

If I were leaf designer on a Street Fighter game, I'd make Akuma look twice as cool as ever but be lower tier than Dan, just to mess with all the Akuma mains who haven't thought about which character to pick in 20 years.

[@mibbzx1493]

I dont mind the toptiers but when they do too much like Leroy in tekken did or Alien on MKX is when the line has been crossed. People who main, mid/lower tier characters should have an equal chance as somebody playing high tier

[@loopseeker]

fighting games should have like 16 characters that are all uniquely busted and never nerf anyone

[@loopseeker]

@ChillingSpree this latest patch tho. really really good

[@gogodiego1311]

Sajam just can’t get mad

[@keenfrizzle]

Having just started watching his videos: Sajam has the zen of a guy who's been in this hobby since his 40's or 50's, but he's 27. Just a really chill dude

[@thestanman1486]

"This character is stupid but it's okay because he's really cool" is the embodiment of UI Goku

[@Nobody-xi3db]

I'd play a hundred UI mains before I'd even think of playing a Z Broly main. Fuck Broly dude...

[@tobyvision]

Is it possible to build a fighting game without cheap characters? Or would the human mind just scale to the situation until one character is top tier or cheap?

[@Firjiwater]

I am INCREDIBLY late but footsies is a good example, there aren’t individual characters. But most people find it boring, because perfect balance has no novelty

[@tackwardsfongjump1800]

@@Firjiwater Isn't Footsies itself nothing but a novelty?

[@faceurhell]

Can’t wait for Akuma in Smash Ultimate so Smashers learn to hate Akuma.

[@LordNarkham]

Akuma will unify the entire FGC through the power of HATRED!

[@NeoBoneGirl]

The thing that makes Johnny a tolerable top 1 is that every character has such unique bullshit that instead of it all being “fuck Johnny” it’s “fuck (literally every character they’re all stupid good)” It also helps that there’s only like 2 really notable Johnny players, KV and Omito

[@sentienceRemains]

4:35 and here ladies and gentlemen is overwatch in a nutshell

[@clickbaitpolice9792]

i have a simple rule. if i hate some OP character so much, e.g. like i NEVER want to fight them online or they're just being used by EVERYONE in some meta, i never play them. i'll rage as I lose sure but i cant be a part of what I hate

[@kevingriffith6011]

I kinda feel the same way, but at the same time if you really struggle against a character then the best way to learn how to counter that character is to play as him or her. After a few matches you should get a decent picture of where the character struggles and where they shine , and you can work to take advantage of their weaknesses more effectively. Plus you'll probably learn a way to counter that one thing they do you really hate. Eventually someone will show you how to counter everything the character has in their arsenal. Edit: Unless you're playing SF5. Then chances are the character you want is behind a paywall and you don't have the 100000 FM to pick them up.

[@QuantemDeconstructor]

I love that this guy basically pointed out that SuperAkouma is the one guy who really gets major victories and there are a few out there who just stomp the matchup

[@solbradguy7628]

Watching this 4 years in the future and playing a new fighting game, Sajam is still right. Everyone's saying "F*ck Nier." Thing is half mean it literally and half mean it figuratively.

[@tailimaru1394]

All this aside.. I'm still a Karin main.

[@Thedylannguyen]

I remember when they made liu kangs fwd 4 a bit slower and people were saying "sorry liu Kang players" whilst still being bodied by liu Kang after the fact.

[@whobee1754]

All these people complaining about top tier characters clearly have never played a game that literally revolved around only 3 characters and it shows. When a game has 3 or less characters that absolutely invalidate the entire rest of the cast to the point where there's no reason to play the rest of the cast because they all lose super hard to the top tiers then people can complain but until that happens in a big game I'm tired of hearing all this top tier stuff

[@armlesskirby]

Here in the world of bbcf we complain about every character

[@yuurou7927]

If everyone is broken, no one is. But buff Noel.

[@KruxisV]

Sounds a lot like SC6 world.

[@s3pPuKu7]

There's no one in there I haven't bitched about in that game xD

[@deymargonzalez6466]

Talking mad shit for someone in hakumen infinite distance

[@TheDiamondSkye]

Sajam forgot about dr doom in vanilla marvel 3. NOBODY fucked with dr. doom in early vanilla marvel. Then doom came out and people were like "oh, doom is kinda nice." Then marlin pie came out and started doing fucking infinite combos and chris g with his aids morrigan/doom. Everybody lost it and it was an era of doom.

[@johngleeman8347]

These french fries could use a little salt. Ah here we are! XD

[@bubbastevegarcia2459]

I’m glad that more high level players don’t play eagle in KI! In the right hands like a Amenty, bass and thrash heavy it’s absolutely amazing how oppressive eagle can be with his pressure and WiFi eagle setups!

[@frostkoi7751]

Damn, you was so right I can’t believe it xD

[@JustGoodwine]

That Johnny quote was me lol

[@jerekaneplaysthings7755]

As a gorilla man myself, when people complain big bodies/grapplers are cheap but don't say shit about other high tiers its really funny to me. A16, Tager/Wald, Abigial, Team KBR, I love watching grab resets since they're the most hype inducing moments in a match. it reminds me of when in arcades how people get into reals fights just for throwing someone lmao.

[@Ouryuu-Zenokun]

grapplers tend to be extremely hard for newbies to deal with aince they are polarizing to some extent and punish you heavily for your mistakes

[@euronymous_t]

"Fuck Byakuya? Fuck you" God, I'm dying.

[@garretwoeller7669]

Can we talk about characters like Beowulf and Sagat great characters that aren't really complained about

[@adre2k2]

Sagat was complained about all day in ST, CvS2 and vanilla SF4, though.

[@garretwoeller7669]

@@adre2k2 yeah but that's not a constant complained about fighter in every to many of the game's he is in like 3 games there are some fighters that get bitches about more you feel me

[@Pacemaker_fgc]

Fuck Beowulf

[@myboy_]

Shouts out to melee fox, the epitome of how a wealth of options can make a top tier

[@sdw-hv5ko]

Then you balance it by making them super easy to combo

[@myboy_]

@@sdw-hv5ko such a beautiful balance. Man I love melee

[@myboy_]

@@haydarrencuzogullari5736 I know it's a joke that the top tiers are super broken, but I think the top tiers are actually very well made, it's just most the rest of the cast that doesn't work right

[@myboy_]

@@haydarrencuzogullari5736 you don't have to convince me spacies have powerful tools. What I'm saying is that these characters are extremely powerful, with tons of good tools, And they're perfect just the way they are. I'd much rather bring the rest of the cast up to their balance rather than pull them down. I don't think the top tiers are broken, everyone else is (but in the bad way)

[@myboy_]

@@haydarrencuzogullari5736 well of course the game would be completely different, I'm not saying we should start using sd remix characters or rebalance melee. We're just talking about character balance in the abstract

[@sanko111]

People: Fuck Byakuya! Sajam: No, fuck you! Nah man, pretty sure this one's "Fuck Byakuya!".

[@papermarkis]

"No one complained about Chun Li in 3S" Dafuq? I played Chun Li and I complained about her lol

[@brna42]

Alternate title: sajam says fuck (character here) for ~7 minutes

[@GawainSSB]

Complaining about characters is a community staple for this genre. It wouldnt be the same without it. But funny enough, I've not seen that much complaining in the Unib community. Even EL Gord/Merk which were ridiculous, people just joked about it mostly.

[@KN-592]

It all boils down to netcode and connection issues and the player you're up against

[@CloudBuilderMetba]

Wait do people say fuck Byakuya? I don’t really find anyone in UNIST really frustrating.

[@leaomarinho5023]

With all this talk about rollback netcode and FGC heads shilling hard for japanese devs to implement it, some questions came to my mind. What is the literature on this technology, anyway? It's not like the cannon bros invened it, they just implemented it in FGs first. Is there a network engineering book or a thesis or whitepaper on this? It's not possible that all the imformation about rollback comes from blogposts and word of mouth, right?

[@CrowFGC]

its fgc morons who think they know best, just like the ones who preach “wifi bad”

[@tobyvision]

It's a pretty basic problem in networking. Fighting games expose it especially badly because they need consistent low latency, which is very hard to predictably deliver. Their are two main algorithms/networking solutions that are close to the theoretical ideal. A lot of small games use these. For bizarre, inexplicable reasons a lot of the larger games do not. My favorite example is Smash Melee online which is a hack on a hack on a hack, and runs much better than Smash Ultimate. Most big budget games seem to focus more on making matchmaking as short as possible. I believe they prioritize this to make the game as palatable as possible to a larger audience. Hard as it may be to swallow for real Fighting Game enthusiasts, the greater audience of the games probably prefers getting a few scrubby wins in lag to waiting for low latency connections and then getting beaten by people like us who care about frame data.

[@tobyvision]

@@CrowFGC Are you suggesting that wifi is not bad for fighting game performance? Wired by no means guarantees good performance, but it removes one of the roadblocks and you have control of it.

[@Gigadriller]

Remember 3rd strike where akuma had a super that could 1-shot a few chars? Joe in cvs2 was TRAUMATIC. My main in OG Accent core (aka.EX sol) Was pretty degenerate as well,extreme projectiles,easy combos,insane damage and easy to learn,only downside is unlocking him.(fuck those 460 levels in survival Just to get a chance)

[@madrocts]

Yo I can't wait for Smash to have Akuma That EVERYONE will be united on the 'Fuck Akuma, he's cheap' train

[@qedsoku849]

I play Soku, which is balanced to the extent that no one can agree on what character is the best one, so people just complain about the whole roster.

[@Count_Virgil]

It's just because people aren't willing to be accountable for their faults. They would rather blame the character, believing that if they didn't exist or if they weren't so strong, that they would be doing so much better than they are.

[@Yuki_1927]

I actually only complained abour Goku GT, because it's killing the variety in tournaments, it's boring to see.

[@DXYS95]

Yeah, that's true. But I think we only see him so much because the good assists are very limited in this game, and he's also a really good character. However GT is the most interesting to see imho, since he can do a bunch of stuff instead of just doing Lariat and 5LL all day long. Also, GT is the glue who makes tons of teams work (in fact you now start to see more Friezas and stuff), while Bardock/Kid Buu have always been there with the best assists behind them (beams and whatnot)

[@ddranimestyle]

This has only been a recent problem, though. Even a few years ago, high level players would stick to their one or two mains, and didn't switch often. And even if they did, for example, Sako's E.Ryu was a different thing to watch compared to Daigo's. I think the most comparable thing I could think of would be Dr. Doom in UMvC3. He was hype to watch when Clockwork first used him, and when MarlinPie showcased sick TAC combos, but that lead to us watching everyone do Dr. Doom infinites at tourneys because he's so strong and easily flexed into any team.

[@yuurou7927]

When it comes down to good characters, why should I use things need execution if I have easy way out? Hell why would anyone do that? That's not efficient, so top characters should have execution barrier to make them earn those good options.

[@shunthanos]

Sajam taking notes on Aris. XD

[@bravadoavocado2382]

The opposite end of the spectrum is when the game has too many honest characters, & thus nobody plays those games. Deep deep down, people love broken shit.

[@abirneji]

too many honest characters? you mean everyone is just a kazuya or ryu or something? I mean that does sound very boring

[@Boyzby]

I don't complain about Fox in Melee, because I recognize your execution has to be really on point for you to not get destroyed, while Puff is so much easier and is about as good, which is why she's bullshit. Fuck Puff and fuck wobbling. The rest of the game is pretty sick though.

[@RagnaXBL]

why the hell is karin in that thumbnail???

[@maakyt123]

johnny is awesome

[@DXYS95]

I'm fine with top tier characters who require lots of decision making, knowledge and/or execution to be busted. I actually enjoy them (like previous patch Gotenks with his ghost oki or GT Goku with his tons of combo routes, setups and power pole mixups). What I dislike are the ones who even a monkey could learn in 5 minutes and be effective with them right off the bat (Bardock and somewhat Kid Buu). You can tell the difference between two GTs or two A. Gohan players, therefore, even if everyone picks them, you're going to have a different experience most of the time and they won't be as frustrating to fight. However top tiers who only have to choose between 2 moves (Lariat or 5LL) get boring really fast

[@awesomereviews1561]

havelmonster slayer GT Goku is by far the worst: he has no weaknesses, can play any position, his assist his amazing ( stupid high hit stun as well), he has the smallest hit box, good range, one of the best auto combo, the best Oki setup, crazy good damage and more. At least you can zone out Bardock and he needs assists to open you up.

[@powerup931]

@@awesomereviews1561 As someone that mains Nappa, Broly, and 16 GT Goku makes me wanna just drop Fighter Z sometimes

[@awesomereviews1561]

Alex Herrera wow! We have the same team in different order ( for me it’s Broly, Nappa and 16). Funny.

[@DXYS95]

@@awesomereviews1561 Eh, you can't really zone out Bardock since he has that aggressive jS ki blast angle. Maybe you can do it with Broly, but don't expect any other character to be able to. GT is far easier to zone, but I can see how his assist can be a "win neutral for free" against tall characters like yours. That said, tall characters have a tough time in this game :/

[@VinceOfAllTrades]

It's the simple top tiers that frustrate me. Overpowered characters tend to have 2-3 incredibly versatile attacks that simplify the game to the point where players of all skill levels can capitalize. It disincentivizes originality and homogenizes the playerbase. It feels bad being put in a position where you're doing more work to get worse results.

[@endresee]

Don’t wanna be that guy but no one said this about S3 Killer Instinct. That game was balanced. No, I will not stop living in 2015.

[@lordjimbo2]

I agree it's the closest thing to balanced we've seen yet. Still, Fulgore, Mira, Cinder, Jago and Aria are definitely a bit above and Orchid, Thunder, Rash and Omen are definitely a bit below.

[@tenkovito]

People complain about Karin? I mean, she is good but she isn't top tier by any means, she's just solid Unless they recently buffed her and Im outta the loop

[@nendo2333]

Yo, update, brawlhalla is a good game where everybody gets pissed off at every character. Balance.

[@LosDefinit]

Watch out now with eye musician people will start shit talking Yoshi lol

[@keybladelovers]

"Looks at melee fox"

[@Kool212]

You're years late bud, it's all about the Puff hate now.

[@Phantom_madman]

Probably the least hated top tier, everyone loves playing against fox

[@BoostedBonobo101]

Lemmie tell you about yang or heart in cross tag...

[@blugamez5437]

Even though I play with Heart, I agree with this fully

[@itsybitsyusitka2170]

I BURN

[@NeroArisato]

You forgot Ruby , Yuzuriha, Mitsuru, Akihiko, and i think thats all.

[@BoostedBonobo101]

@@NeroArisato Yuz and Aki require strict execution and Aki is countered by any and all pushbacks and range attacks. Yang and heart are incredibly strong while also being incredibly safe. But yes Ruby as well. I just thought mentioning her would be beating a dead horse at this point but I guess that point still stands.

[@Jsobone]

Ibuki

[@giornogiovanna673]

Johnnys cool

[@MH3Raiser]

2 years later... Fuck Izanami.

[@Starman_Dx]

Wait, Tekken players are complaining about Akuma? Here I am tired of always seeing Jack 7 in every damn top 8! Thank Harada for Akuma and Geese.

[@naseralsalem236]

what are you smoking? Jack 7 hasn't been relevant since september last year.

[@Starman_Dx]

I must be smoking the good EVO 2019 shit cuz he was there....

[@naseralsalem236]

@@Starman_Dx yes and the only person playing him at the top level is Anakin, the same guy you saw at evo 2019. Meanwhile, Noroma and Joey dropped him (coincidentally Noroma was in top 8 and didn't play Jack) and Saint hasn't been doing well lately, so yea if you ever see Jack in a stacked top 8, 9 times out of 10 it's Anakin.

[@Starman_Dx]

@@naseralsalem236 Good, cuz I'd prefer that Jack 7 would completely drop off from competive play as I remember the days of Jack mirror matches for top 8s. Was happy to see good character diversity for Evo finals.

[@Ourfairduke]

Buff Johnny

[@itsyaboi1245]

Preach brother

[@Giraffinator]

True, true

[@Ghostly_Gibuz]

Rugal from KOF tho

[@deymargonzalez6466]

The only "normal" Rugal we've gotten is 98 Rugal and he was shit. Boss Rugal on the other hand always has 100% combos from a fart in the wind.

[@HeavyMetalLink05]

I just play whos fun Akuma and Ibuki are top tier? Sweet some of the characters I enjoy are really good Falke is the worst character in the game? Oh well, I'll still play her even tho she sucks

[@HeavyMetalLink05]

@Master Monkey I was using it more as an example then anything but sure, be abrasive for no reason. Who do you think is the worst character?

[@skyMcWeeds]

As a JOHNNY main in GG, he is pretty strong but hard to get into because of his mechanics. I don't mind getting bodied by a fellow JOHNNY players he looks so cool doing it.

[@trollof229antthevariable9]

Yeah but I don't have to even show you what I'm doing. Lol. I'm just doing that for the sake of transparency and honesty. And good luck getting 1 billion ppl to scower remote forrest for a small outpost where the 'magic evil man' lives. I'm just saying what good does it do to know what someone is doing when you can't repeat it yourself. Lmaoo.

[@themage1016]

GG Players: "F*ck Waifu(Jack-O)

[@PepPep718]

Smah bros. playes complain about the bad characters that are just boring to play against

[@SkylarEmelio91]

In Tekken 7 season 1 it was "Dragunov is too strong and needs to be nerfed" so harada nerfed him, then in Tekken 7 season 2 we got nothing but "Geese and Akuma are too strong" so harada nerfed them (which is odd considering they can still delete your health bar) now we're on season 3 where 90% of the cast got buffs unless your name is lee

[@noboty4168]

and Gigas

[@lucaswibisono1316]

And Law

[@YL3nt]

0:34 TheMainMan is already saying that lol

[@Worick]

yes

[@iamspeed403]

I mean play who u think it’s fun like I’m not about to play a certain character to please this whinny community of fighters 🤷‍♂️

[@balleet210]

Karin isn't even near cheap. You gotta be so good to play her right. She doesn't deserve to be in that thumbnail.

[@HawkHollywood]

shut the fuck up karin main

[@alexpi1115]

man, fuck t-block in puyo puyo tetris

[@trollof229antthevariable9]

I like you. I like the way gamers think. 😂 Don't think I'm being mean to you. Lol

[@jerrikpeddie2944]

What about fox from melee? I dont think people r like fuck fox really

[@Pandaman64]

I don't even play Fighterz and I say fuck GTgoku. And bardock. God damn.

[@pandafights2win405]

if you play akuma bison or guile you ain't shit, just sayin