Gilles Deleuze - Beware of the other's dream

[@plume642]

The untranslated part is the most interesting part of the extract 1:21, therefore I translate it for you: "So you understand, when you have such an idea, the important is not to know whether it is true or false. The question is to know if it is important, if it is interesting, and if it is beautiful. And it is the same in science, it is the same in philosophy, you know"

[@tristanreynolds5135]

@@braydensmith7362 Nietzsche is discussed and plays an important role throughout many of Deleuze's works...i would write more but what you said is just so bizzare

[@Fnoalle]

Oh my! If actual people listened this guy, he'd die from tooth decay. Now, if you admire Deleuze, you'd nod and pretend to understand what I wrote above. But if you have common sense, however, PM me and I'd happily explain what I meant.

[@tristanreynolds5135]

@@Fnoalle jaja wtf

[@plume642]

@@braydensmith7362 its ok to steal ideas, that's what creative people do.

[@chrish12345]

sorry he's talking nonsense, the idea that in Science its more important to be beautiful and interesting than to have any truth attached to it is the machination of a lunatic

[@gullyboy9]

god deleuze has such an ominous voice

[@robharris5782]

I think he had a serious lung health issue, and he smoked a lot.

[@erwinwoodedge4885]

His nicotine addiction cost him his lungs, and as a consequence, his life by suicide.

[@pfflam]

his voice is ripe with the immanence of his mortality. ... it might be said

[@oliviertesta8446]

@@erwinwoodedge4885 er, not exactly. He had a lung disease since his teens, later caught tuberculosis and then COPD. At the end, breathing was so painful that he killed himself (It's true that he was a very heavy drinker and smoker though)

[@tedbailey3673]

@@erwinwoodedge4885 TB too my friend.

[@Jeffwaifei]

I just imagine him explaing the Rhizome with his tone of voice.

[@noor5x9]

My man got so deep the subs were like Imma head right out

[@hegelianischeschizophrener3743]

I remember those psychoanalytical analyses of Alice's adventures in Wonderland which portrayed the immanent and pulsing violence of a little girl as Alice through her obscure and illogical dreams, a literary work appreciated by Deleuze

[@natewikman]

where?

[@Prprpsksks]

@@natewikmanlogic of sense

[@samson4366]

Dreams is dangerous, linger like angel dust Ain't no angels hovering, ain't no savin' us Ain't no slaving us, you gon' need a bigger boat You gon' need a smaller ocean but here's some more rope - billy woods of Armand Hammer

[@x3i4n]

Exactly why im here. Ahhh, billy woods man.

[@vitogambino6051]

reminds me of satoshi kon's movie Paprika

[@spookybuk]

This is how you know someone has just finished watching Berserk.

[@Noahthelasercop]

Berserk finished watching him.

[@spookybuk]

​@@Noahthelasercop Maybe so! There is a lot of Western influence on Berserk. However, this theme of "the dark side of heroes, saviors and reformers" has been a main theme in Chinese philosophy for at least 2.5k years. It's a huge theme in the Zhuangzi, considered by people like D. T. Suzuki "the greatest Chinese philosopher". It is the main point behind "Water Margin" and "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" - I mean, TWO OUT OF "The Four Classic Novels of Chinese Literature". So even if the author wanted here to paint another Western reference, to any educated person in the East, these European commentaries on the matter look like a child understanding for the first time how a faucet works, or how to open a door. Also, of course I was joking about him watching Berserk. It would only START publishing one year after this video was recorded.

[@Noahthelasercop]

@spookybuk "Of course I was only joking" Same. Also, don't use a less than 2 minute video of a guy explaining one of his ideas to represent Western philosophy.

[@spookybuk]

@@Noahthelasercop But I believe that, in the sense I used it to represent Western philosophy, it does represent it. Being a 2 minute video is no obstruction against representing Western philosophy on any given point :)

[@Noahthelasercop]

@@spookybuk That was advice. You come off as untrustworthy and one-sided just comparing the likes of a short video to famous Eastern literature and philosophers. If I grabbed a brief "commentary" of an Eastern philosopher and compared it to the West, I could pull off a similar stunt.

[@justb6694]

Dreams Rule Everything Around Me

[@lugus9261]

This sums up where guts went wrong with griffith in berserk

[@Joshlul]

he realized it.....

[@proalvinyt8683]

dude this one hits me hard bro nice analogy

[@batsky6061]

How good is Berserk? I’m an anime novice, I’ve only watched NGE, HxH, FMAB, and a few others. I’ve heard it’s rich in Nietzsche’s philosophy, from my limited knowledge of it it sounds like Griffith is his Übermensch.

[@lugus9261]

@@batsky6061 the good version is on KZbin for free and its like 25 episodes. Does not cover a lot but it does cover essentially the most important arc to get into it. The series overall is long and has too many hiatuses (you like HxH so it's fine) but its good ya know. Guy has sword, monsters be ugly, sad times happen. Good series

[@thomassaultry4369]

@@batsky6061 pls read the manga if you want to fully experience and understand the story and the message of the author read the manga

[@fredwelf8650]

the question of instrumentalism looms large here.

[@monsieurlouche1231]

Best glasses ever.

[@tdez6060]

Wow this is Griffith from Berserk … Mirua was an absolute genius.

[@Sterben-ss1sc]

Thought the same

[@shellypooper]

what do you mean ? I'm not familiar with berserk

[@egoxagony4623]

@@shellypooper guts is the one who makes griffiths dream true, trapped in grifith dream to creake his own kindom

[@shellypooper]

@@egoxagony4623 thank you for the explanation

[@mau345]

I was thinking the same thing!

[@dominicdiorio]

This has real “Denial of Death” vibes. The idea of others dreams threatening is pretty much a important theme in that book. I always love seeing multiple different thinkers come to similar conclusions from different angles. Idk why.

[@notachannle]

thanks for the book rec

[@EricLeafericson]

"I had some dreams, they were clouds in my coffee"

[@sethcopeland4362]

The way he punctuates "but by her dreams" («mais par ses rêves!») is spooky.

[@ibarna1869]

"We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality, and while you are studying that reality…we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s, how things sorts out. We are history’s actors” - Karl Rove, Chief consultant and policy advisor to George W. Bush an other interesting reflection: by Richard Linklater kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGnNgqiFn9mDibM

Narcissistic bullshit. They dont create realities, because power is slavery. People are the history's actors.

[@JuanTorres-ny9ff]

No Fernando la historia la escribe la burguesia, ni siquiera en este momento nosotros que vivimos en este tiempo tenemos idea de lo que realmente esta pasando, la información que nos envian viene tergiversada, imcompleta, para que sepamos justo lo necesario y no creemos problemas.

[@harrylately1]

CoronaVirus- “what’s my name bitch”

[@freelance_commie]

@ narcissistic sure, but it’s the not so coded language of an imperialist demagogue, a representative of one of the worst and most unflinchingly brutal, insatiable regimes in the worlds history, talking about how they’re essentially god and through “triumph of our will” (sound familiar) we thrust our reality, our demands and our demonic incoherent lust on to whoever, whenever for whatever reason as if they need a reason at all. They have the master copy and are writing their draft of history and it’s pretty well protected but hopefully ultimately it gets exposed and tossed out. Its been done before! To think guillotines weren’t that long ago at all hmm.

[@kazzz2765]

David Lynch vibes

[@SenorCitrone]

twitter.com/familyjewelsboi/status/1289177752076091393?s=09

[@acsatornad]

Long thick nails, ominous, foggy but crackling voice, talking about devouring dark dreams of young girls...ok Deleuze just admit it already...You are an evil wizard.

[@acsatornad]

@@samba780 Nope, appearently, he had long nails all his life, because he couldn"t stand the touch of fabric :)

[@fafo867]

@@acsatornad very sensitive fingers

[@HitlerStalinProductions]

this is all french "people"

[@carolaybob]

Extraordinario!!!

[@kydanoster9027]

if only guts had seen this video

[@F--B]

In tradition, there is the harmony of the collective dream. In modernity, there is the civil war of individual dreams.

[@evrensaygn1017]

Collective dream is way acceptable than the civil war.

[@ivan_ivankovich]

Tf you on about

[@writer4444]

Reminds me of Hitler and the Nazis dream when he says "People's dreams are always devouring, and threaten to engulf us; the others dream is very dangerous. Dreams have a terrible will to power and each one of us is a victim to the other’s dreams." Nietzsche and the will to power played a big part in the Reich's dream. Even if they misunderstood Nietzsche's philosophy and used it for pursuit of one of the worst atrocities ever recorded.

[@domenhitrec3288]

Deleuze’s brother was killed by the nazis.

[@ripper2045]

Deleuze after watching Berserk

[@wedgewizard5429]

1:21 Why is this part left out of the translation? It seems like the most important part of the clip.

[@salerace84]

Refering you to L'Ennui et le Rêve comment above and his translation : "So you understand, when you have such an idea, the important is not to know whether it is true or false. The question is to know if it is important, if it is interesting, and if it is beautiful. And it is the same in science, it is the same in philosophy, you know"

[@wedgewizard5429]

@@salerace84 Thank you. Yes, I had read that part of the translation in the comments. I was just curious _why_ that part of the translation had been left out of the video.

[@salerace84]

@@wedgewizard5429 ah I see ! It was like this in the original video I extracted that part from, I'm French so I didn't really pay attention to the subtitles until someone mentioned it here in the comments.

[@abreshmeee]

God, I want him.

[@carlosluis1970]

A father that dream about his sons futur and create a company like Antony & Sons, for instance, and then capture them working in that company, what is he doing about the freedom of choice of the sons?

[@maltestene20]

This is so berserkcore

[@x3i4n]

Ayo, shit's deep bruh

[@argent2345]

I had a dream that someone was dreaming of me. C'est vrai.

[@仲里雄司]

あの頃は生きてたんだな🐤

[@renatogaucho7810]

Censor your dreams. American dream (now world's middle class dream) is nightmare.

[@carlosluis1970]

yes!

[@khanthor7974]

La reve de la reve (the dream ofthe dream) so tautologically Heidegger-like. Not to mention the unavoidable Nietzschean reference of the Will to Power. Certaily by an impressive voice.

[@sdux18]

satoshi kon's paprika (2006)

[@erichruyalves]

he just described berserk by kentaro miura

[@LowenKM]

But some folks are attracted to the dreams of others for much the same reason they like fast food... 'cuz it's cheap, convenient, and you don't have to know anything, or bother with any of the 'prep'.

[@B4Block]

And thus one falls into the dangers of naïvely following the convenient dreams of others, no?

[@yannickmantele5788]

im getting asthmatic watching this

[@AudioPervert1]

subtitles stop in the middle ... Hmmmmm

[@BlueDusk95]

In short he says that it doesn't matter whether this idea is true or false because it is a beautiful idea when used properly.

[@plume642]

Audio Pervert I have tried a more literal translation than what was provided above. Please have a look.

[@cmgordon12345]

Unexpected esoterica. I let myself in.

[@anonymoushuman8344]

Whose dreams did he feel he'd been caught in?

[@carlosluis1970]

God

[@skit555]

Comment peut-on être aimé si on accepte pas de faire partie du rêve de l'autre?

[@carlosluis1970]

déjà l'amour ça n'existe pas, c'est une passion, nous sommes des animaux; puis, je pense ce qui est en cause ici ç'est la question de l'instrumentalism, c'est à dire, faire ds autres des objets à satisfaire mes objetifs, voir, mes rêves....

[@skit555]

@@carlosluis1970 Tout le monde n'est pas capable de ressentir de l'amour mais je vous assure que ça existe. Et on peut faire des autres siens sans perturber ou même interagir avec autrui; il suffit de l'observer et de l'intégrer en soi.

[@seeingsights]

But what happens if we all exist in somebody’s dream, and the dreamer wakes up?

[@AlessioAndres]

He's right in a romantic frame of thought. You see, it is impossible for an intellectual to be romantic, an intellectual always steps over people's delusions, which they, informally and uniformally, dare to call as dreams. The well informed, general need, will always win against any tabu of being. After all, freedom is about not taking other's freedom. It is about having the right at personal view without committing the slightest form of injustice.

[@ModernConversations]

GRIFFITH!!!!!!!

[@real.liveDJ]

the algorithm brought me here. lmfao. whos dream is that!?

[@tdez6060]

you don’t get it man….

[@real.liveDJ]

@@tdez6060 I think I do and I think I was joking, but I do think that cyberspace has entered into (or taken over) the dream space. the globalized mind continues to make me dream less, want more. Deleuze here just explained how we are subject to dreams destructive nature. And this is my problem with "philosophy" (Im glad its dead), its someone elses dream.

[@tdez6060]

@@real.liveDJ dream-space has always been informed by want and desire and that is why it is dangerous. Also who says philosophy is dead? Cyberspace?

[@real.liveDJ]

@@tdez6060 idk who said it, maybe baudrillard or something. I say cyberspace because I think that the multitude of ideals presented online have now been programmed into us, therefore shaping our desire. to deleuze's points here, i dont even know if we even desire anymore. death drive loops and loops and loops. whatever now im just spewing my own *traumas*

[@carlosluis1970]

@@real.liveDJ the question is: who have interest in the death of philosophy?

[@leftiblith6263]

i

[@lp4755]

Jesus

[@theopenmouth9695]

LMao

[@sethcopeland4362]

Gillesus

[@evenzero]

Yall stuck in my dream, so guess what happens next....

[@TheSaltyAdmiral]

Ok, Mr fancy pants philosopher dude, what if... my dream is to be engulfed by someone else's dream? Then who has engulfed who!? It makes you narrow your eyes, gaze out at nothing through the kitchen window and think "What the fuck am I doing!?", doesn't it?

[@joaov.m.oliveira9903]

Then it's obvious you engulf the person who's dreaming about you.

[@kkounal974]

Engulfed implies it's non-consensual so you aren't making much sense.

[@fredwelf8650]

it is a matter of who is advantaged or disadvantaged by the flow of dreams. I think however the this is really about will and unconscious will, though.

[@georgepantzikis7988]

@@kkounal974 You can be engulfed willingly.

[@kkounal974]

@@georgepantzikis7988 Technically in most contexts yes but in the context of the comment, no. Unless you literally read minds you can't want to be engulfed in someone else's dream because you can not know what that dream is. You can only have an expectation of it but that is yours, your dream then becomes the projection of that expectation to others, your dream in that case is having others have a certain dream. So I'm basically saying you either interpret engulfed as non-consensual or the premise of the comment does not work thus the argument makes no sense. Ωραίο επίθετο πάντως.

[@stevenpalomino1906]

Oh so when Martin Luther king said he had a dream he was talking about genocide.

[@stevenpalomino1906]

At least griffith obtained his dream

[@Cicalonion]

Yes!

[@TheSwordofStorms]

Yes 100%

[@TheJackal917]

The passage about young girls sounds very pedophilic.

[@carlosluis1970]

LOL...process him! psychology books tell that we see he world as we are...

[@leftiblith6263]

could be 19-24. It's your mind that went there

[@TheJackal917]

@@leftiblith6263 not with what New Left preaches. Lol. Obviously everybody thinks to the measure of own's perversity but that idea was taken from Sartre, so I guess you're wrong. Unrestricted sexual relationships with minors as a part of sexual freedom as left sees it is one of cornerstones of its ideology.

[@georgepantzikis7988]

@@TheJackal917 Name one prominent leftist for whom pedophilia was an integral part of their philosophy.

[@rarqer]

Bla bla bla...

[@carlosluis1970]

i explain to you: have you ever been exploited by a boss, that forced you to work at the end of your physical / psychic limits? have you ever been manipulated by other person, not just but also, because you were in submissive position? have you imersed in ideas, religion, concepts created by others? have you ever sufferede an imposed discourse or thinking, for instance, by your parents? you get it now?

[@rarqer]

@@carlosluis1970 deluze with his postmodernistic relativistic blablaing explains everything :)

[@carlosluis1970]

@@rarqer just a question: all the words you use to speak and write were created by you? no? so, in that case, when you speak, what are you speaking about?

[@rarqer]

@@carlosluis1970 I made it short: deluze is charlatan

[@kkounal974]

@@rarqer People try to understand the difference between perspectivism and relativism challenge. Also this video is a stand-alone, you don't need to know or agree with anything about Deleuze to understand what he is saying.