Classic WoW Hunters: Marksmanship vs Survival (WHO WINS?!)

[@SaltyZera]

Which spec are you going with? MM, Survival or the Hybrid build? Does MM have you hooked with it's simplicity, or does Survival grab you thanks to it's frequent big numbers? In the end, it all comes down to choice! :D

[@goatt4824]

Been using the 'hybrid' build ever since I didn't need hit% from talents. Well, minus 3 points in BM because I'm the 5/5 Imp Hunters Mark guy. Sometimes a spec just feels right, it's nice to see the math reinforce my decisions.

[@joe90000000000]

I've been 17/31/3 since BWL dropped to get max damage against dragonkin. Planning on going whatever spec gives me max damage for the current raid tier, so 20/31/0 once AQ drops.

[@GIRO1989LOL]

@@joe90000000000 exactly the same here.

[@dramacorner]

I'm curious to see the stats fulled buffed including world buffs, I know you said it shouldn't change as it buffs both specs, but the theory is 15% agi from HoH buff and + gorpok 25agi + blessing of kings 10% + mongoose etc all scales higher with lightning relfexes.

[@Starplaya]

Im still playing 5/34/12 or sth since bwl release. Constantly having 95.7 avg log. I thought about 21/30 with aq40 but since everyone goes this build I think about deep beastmaster spec for maximum dps in bossfights that only last 1 min. My guild drops every boss is no time so a bm spec is considerable

[@Sckeza]

It's crazy that you make vids that address exactly what i want addressed as soon as i have a tough time deciding lol

[@georgiospapadopoulos5140]

Not watched the video yet, but survival wins out with about 1 onyxia head buff advantage. Im playing survival with the other 2 hunters in raid being MM, Im getting another hunters trueshot most engagements, still making a significant amount more dmg as surival with equal gear, anyone interested can PM me for logs to go through.

[@25-mohamedshukrilazammoham16]

This is one of the thing that i love about classic/vanilla..theorycrafting..playing with talent tree, trying diff builds etc..instead of going on to same build u got to pick n poke here n there..wether its gonna bring a slight difference or a major gap hole its still worth experimented..good job bro..luv ur works.. From, Bullseyes Tauren hunter Mankrik

[@christopherpumphrey7023]

Fellow Mankrikian!! I think I have seen you around. -Monsolo

[@Andy_Toys]

Thank you brother for dedication.You got my respect.It’s not about only the game, but the way you are bringing this on the plate (arguments, small details, spreadsheet,etc) demonstrate that you are profesional in what are you doing. Cheers.

[@kengrant7786]

This was spectacular, thank you.

[@doubleeeeeee]

thank you for your awesome hunter vids, looking forward to following you into naxx and tbc

[@arsssis]

"there is quite literally no difference between the two" ... isnt this where the whole comparison is flawed? As a survival specced hunter you would NOT be going for the same gear as MM. Sure footed allowing you to go for gear with less hit and weapon prioritising agility over all else. I'm not saying the results would be massively different but it would at least make for a more meaningful comparison.

[@psystormz6308]

That would make the Survival spec even stronger then right? I mean if he is using gear with hit for MM spec then you could swap that out for crit gear and more dps?

[@Jwhiz24]

If survival is not 10 to 20% ahead of marksmanship, it is just worse from a pve perspective. You lose all the raid utility from providing TSA and are not getting more damage than a 17/31/3 build? That's rubbish. You're also using T3 gear in the calculator. Marksmanship will pull even further ahead in our current T2 gear. TLDR: Deep Survival is only for PvP

[@SaltyZera]

This man speaks truth. Survival will always lag behind, regardless of your gear. T1-T3 it doesn't matter, because all the gear is doing is supplementing what the spec already does great. Survival is the best PvP/Open World build, MM is the best Raid spec. The hybrid build is a nice middle ground that offers you the best of both worlds. Happy Hunting my friend!

[@youness4247]

@@SaltyZera can you please share that hybrid spec ? If It's already on discord, which one ?

[@SaltyZera]

Youness it’s in the video description homes. Check the video description.

[@SBudgetStaudi]

Not necessarily on horde tough. Depending on the amount of shamans you have in your raid and if you raid 20 or 40. If you can make groups with 1 shaman, 1 hunter and 3 melees fine. But if you do not have enough shamans for this, there will be 1 shaman 4 melees and the hunter in a caster/mixed group, since 1 windfury + strength totem will be better then 3x trueshot aura. So in those scenarios your utility is a non factor, doesn't really change the end result tough.

[@kaukey]

ZG World buff and blessing of kings doesn't favor Survival?

[@overzealous4599]

I’ve always been a strong survival supporter. It’s got huge utility in dungeons, PvP. Never been one to place points into BM for raiding

[@SaltyZera]

Aye, my friend, I don't blame you. It seems an archaic way of thinking to buff a pet for Raid damage. A lot of my fellow guildmate Hunters would agree with you. Let's see if you're train of thinking is correct! Regardless, I'm glad you found a spec that you're happy with through and through. That's what it's all about mate! Continue to enjoy the Hunt my friend!

[@overzealous4599]

Zera I’ve usually rocked 5/31/15 or 0/31/15. I’ve always been in PVP or heavy dungeon farms which entrapment can make or break.

[@bandit7459]

Kevin Kiff entrapment in a dungeon...That sounds like a sure way to get people killed.

[@reiterateyoursentence3447]

nick peter how would it kill people lmao u dumb

[@phianthony91]

@@reiterateyoursentence3447 he's talking about for melee dps. If entrapment procs the mob will automatically hit whoever's closest and if it happens to be a melee dps not the tank that could suck. But more often than not with a competent group you'll be more than fine.

[@Macareux]

you still need naxx stuff for survival to have enough agility to be good , why would you need a spec to kill dragon and beast after clearing naxx multiple times ? The ts aura benefit all your party, it's too important for your tanks. I really don't think you can count on 50% pet uptime on most naxx bosses. And you don't need 9% hit with survival, wich meens you could use less hit stuff for more crit

[@AndrewByrnes1]

I think I was 5/31/15 or something. Loved improved aspect of hawk from Bm tree for dps in raids. Mm for raids with tsa. Went for improved damage on humanoids, dragonkin beasts etc, then went for improved traps. Love me frost trap with 30% increased duration and a 25% chance to snare for 5 seconds. It does WORK in pve and pvp

[@Addek88]

What about 1/20/30, phase 5 with Barb of the Sand Reaver, Godslayer ring and signet of the bronze dragonflight, all buffs including Zandalar and Grace of air + tier 2,5(16+ agi, incomparison with t2) combined with t2(3 pieces) and you get the TSA from another full t2 hunter. Will marksman still beat Surv with similar buffs?

[@SaltyZera]

Addek doesn’t work. That’s literally no difference than what I proposed. Survival is no good. Even so far as into Phase Six with any combination of gear. With or without TSA. Survival cannot beat Marksmanship.

[@Addek88]

@@SaltyZera Ty for the quick answer :) I know this is off topic on this video but... how about MM spec T2,5 and 3 pieces T2 vs full T2 and you got other hunters with full T2 in the raid?

[@SaltyZera]

Addek most guilds won’t allow full T2 since it’s only 10 DPS increase per Hunter. Meaning that a single Warlock could outdo that amount of DPS increase with a single Corruption. 8/8 T2 is only useful when you can have 15-20 Hunters stacking multiple Expose Weakness procs on top of each other. But that takes up multiple debuff slots. Plus nobody is running that many Hunters. Aside from meme MC or Onyxia runs. 😂

[@7justin34]

As of right now I'm rocking the 3/31/17 hybrid build w/ imp mark 2/5, imp hawk 3/5, imp FD 2/2. I'm able to raid and put out substantial dps while also having the increased dmg to beasts, dragonkin, humanoids & giants from SV. I prefer the 2/2 Imp FD for Tributes and the utility I can get out of trap talents and extra dmg with savage strikes for a little melee weaving here and there..

[@arturbaranovskis3032]

Hei! I.m wondering, is some one ever tested fully buffed pet in 31/20/0 build? Interesting to see numbers..

[@paulmc875]

I always found the Go to MM build very Rigid and when I move my points around for a more unique build that suits me is better than the generic build most hunters use... I've never raided any other class than hunter and played since 2005.. If you want to be the greatest hunter on your server always remember "All loot is hunter loot" ..:) I play a mix of different builds depending on where I am and what I'm doing .... For The hunt

[@DanielRamos-ek1fy]

I need this calculations but to the patch 3.3.5a wotlk. I play Survival and I've many doubts. I use the survival hunter with full Agility gems, but some friends told me that after I get to 60% crit (unbuffed) attack power becomes more useful. But they say to change my gems from Agility to Arp, so that confused me.

[@nunogoncalini6064]

What about the hybrid build that u go surv only until savage strikes for the raptor to melee weave keeping tsa and all the mark talents only losing on pet dmg? Its a hybrid like yours but those points for raptor seem huge

[@Souliss24]

Hi Zera, great videos! I did have a comment about a very popular 'do it all' spec that i have always used. 4/31/16. (or 2/31/18 it up to add points into surefooted for hit%, giving a greater range of gear to use, espcialy b/c most guilds will not give hunters accura/dft). classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/hunter/4-05251030513051-330022231. Probs should have been included. This gives you deterance and savage strikes for pvp and farming (and melee weave if thats your thing). There is also a huge jump in agility for cryptstalker impacting that +15% agility in survival so using gear that we dont have access to and most wont for 4+months might be a mistake (even when it is launched it will take a while to acquire the pieces). I am also always put in a melee group for TSA so they can generate more damage, I think these calcs dont take that into consideration and would dramatically shift the balance to 31 mks for raid comp. On a completely different topic, (idea for a couple of videos for you ) i was under the impression improved aspect of the hawk had a hard time limit cap (it can only proc once per minute(or some specific amount of time) so putting 5 points into it offers diminishing returns. I would also love an update on melee weaving. I tried it with Grileks Carver and found it to be pretty damn impractical.

[@bjrnroaldsetli6840]

In survival you will get 3% crit from killer instinct talent and a portion of crit and ap/rAP from Lightning reflexes. You also go down to mortal shots, and either scatter shot or 1 point in barrage. That means you lose 100AP from TSA, 10% less dmg on multishot from barrage, and the ranged weapon spesalization. Are the survival talents not exceeding the loss of the missing MM points and BM talents(if pet uptime is an issue)?

[@IWillSexU]

0/21/30 is what wins in PvP

[@bluep1z]

i think you have terrible gear here for copmarisons. Kingsfall and Blade of fallen seraph, really? 0 raid teams will give you either of those before rogues or warriors lol , you will wait a LONG LONG time for either. on top of that , both of those are giving you 2% hit so if you wanted a realistic comparison, give your char zg weps. now you have 7% hit and need 2% hit so you have to get the 3% ranged hit scope and change your itemization around a bit. this is a huge thing because for some reason you dont have 3% hit from survival in your example build and this is something that i think you really are missing. thank god you brought up melee weaving, because yes LR is huge if you do melee weaving. atm im melee weaving and i need surefooted+7 scope dmg on crossbow so i can be melee hitcapped. i would love another test of actual realistic gear

[@shjelde660]

i am so extremely excited to see the results!

[@SaltyZera]

You and me both mate!

[@Angmar3]

Wait, hunters don't use the slayer talents with marksmanship? That's my default build

[@SaltyZera]

Angmar3 not everybody does. And if you manage your pet well it’s actually not the best spec. It just helps put a lot against those specific types.

[@Starplaya]

I also have marks with both slayer talents. 95,7 average bwl log. Can’t complain i always disliked the 20 points in bm as MM hunter

[@Angmar3]

@@Starplaya yeah me too, maybe if my healers gave my pet a bit of love I'd switch to 20 points in BM, but until that happens...

[@SaltyZera]

Starplaya hell yes. They’re a fine setup indeed!

[@christopherpumphrey7023]

Can confirm, I run 17/31/3 with full T2 and BWL Xbow. Pull pretty decent numbers and that 3% damage from monster slaying was adopted by all our Hunters. - Monsolo Mankrik

[@girafmad]

what happens to this calc if you disregard the pet, since it will most likely be dead on every single boss in Naxx

[@SaltyZera]

Even if your pet is only in the fight a total of 30% of the time, the 20/31/0 build has a higher damage ceiling than Survival. Granted, if you're point is to say that Survival is the strongest damaging spec without a pet, the answer is yes. But you should always make it a point to do your best to manage your pet to be in the fight as long as possible. Or so that should be the goal. There are crappy times when, no matter what you do, he still dies. But, I can't imagine there ever being a circumstance where a pet can stay in the fight long enough to have at least 30% uptime. We'll see though.

[@girafmad]

I hope you are right, my only experience with pets in Naxx is private servers and there pets where so terrible you might as well not use em.

[@shawnnason6059]

I really only use my pets for open world, and PvP, since they have no aoe resistance till TBC you're basically sending them to their deaths unless you're micromanaging them. Just less to deal with when they're no there.

[@audunbuvik4664]

this is just wierd, in all marksmanship speccs u also take dragon-slaying from the survival tree, lol?

[@audunbuvik4664]

its like hes talking about 51 points in marksmanship vs 51 points in survival, and noone speccs like that

[@niLoDaX]

I use the 17/31/3 spec and it proves to be decent, good overall.

[@nexmann17nani]

Hey Zera, I disagree quite a bit with your choice of having the marksmanship talent being 20/31/0, since it by no means is the standard raids spec. The most popular hunter talent as of now is 5/31/15, with 5 points in improved hawk, regular marksmanship and then 15 points in survival, thereby getting additional damage vs humanoid and dragonkin. This is generally regarded as the best dps spec for endgame content, since buffing yourself is much more beneficial than buffing your pet, since your pet can't do continuous consistent damage vs a lot of raid bosses. With that being said will survival and the 15% agility top out vs what I would call the marksmanship build?

[@Mrnatox]

I might be in the minority, but I always go atleast 17 points SV regardless - cause I dont like it when FD resist. If I dont, the boss fights feel RNG - same with imp hawk. Making the case for SV over MM smaller. Also would be interesting to see melee-weaving in SV vs MM, and how important imp FD is compared to pet dmg (how reliable is FD to trinketswap if you dont have imp FD vs pet dmg etc)

[@Heringer91]

14/31/6... been running that since vanilla Thank you for posting that, Ive tried to tell so many hunters to use it

[@tobiask4065]

17/31/3 in BWL

[@iftyhargil8359]

Does this calculation considers melee weaving and such?

[@Flamestryke-TV]

Can I get a copy of this google sheet?

[@psystormz6308]

Hi Zera and thank you for the video. Are you using the exact same gear? If you use Survival you can drop hit gear and replace with crit gear. Are you accounting for this?

[@psklpskl]

whats TSA?

[@kakurius959]

you mostly will never have grace of air

[@maTzeprei]

You missed TSAs dmg increase for the group you are in. Thats why every pve hunter speced it back then. Otherwise respect for your passion and dedication for the classic hinter.

[@Sund42]

Hey that is my hybrid build !

[@MrOrmanley]

The number comparisons dont factor in the ap provided to other dps in the grp (rogues/warriors/enh/ret/feral), do they? I mean it's up to 400 ap loss there... Also, how about a 12/31/8 spec (your hybrid spec, but sacrificing some pet damage for 20% raptor strike for melee weaving)?

[@Faustusful]

for me survival.. i was survival 0/21/30

[@SaltyZera]

Amen brother, play what makes you happy. Top end damage isn't what's important, it's what makes you happy at the end of the day!

[@kengrant7786]

I genuinely do like this build more as a matter of fun.

[@RandyToroni]

Zera, since I have Ashkandi and still want to play hybrid I developed a build that takes away a few points from beast and adds them up into Savage strikes. Great build but incredibly item dependent to get hit cap. It's similar to your hybrid marksman build but with savage strikes and beast. I tried a build going down to surefooted for 9% hit cap on my melee and it wasn't worth it. In my opinion surefooted is a terrible talent to end the tree in. You sacrifice too much pet dps/utility for surefooted.

[@SaltyZera]

It's true, also there is a bug that I've seen/heard of where Surefooted's increase 3% hit does not work for Tranq Shot, and that is very detrimental to your Raid as a whole; however, good news is that with T1 and T3 both, you have plenty of Hit from gear. So it shouldn't be too difficult to swipe up the Hit from gear.

[@youness4247]

Please woulf you mind sharing this spec ? that would be very helpful

[@RandyToroni]

@@SaltyZera I didn't mention this, but I am hit capped at 9% without surefooted in full 8/8 tier 2. No band of Accuria or DFT, but I have 2 ZG enchants to make up for it. Dragonstalker is incredibly item dependent but I think it's slightly better than tier 1, just requires allot to make it work.

[@esportbully1196]

This also doesn't take into account Melee weaving

[@SaltyZera]

andy arroyo did you not watch the last two minutes of the video? Clearly not 😂

[@Nerololable]

This is literally like a political discussion. Very few people aren’t extreme about their opinion. That being said I love survival lol just because open world I don’t feel like a sitting duck and can easily raid with it and not lose a load of dps. Just overall a more diverse use. Either way you go, make sure you’re having fun playing the game or you are wasting time.

[@SaltyZera]

Nerololable extremely strong statement and truthful.

[@steeben009]

@Zera First of all thanks for the video. I have a question: "what spec would be the best for soloing risen constructs in Scholo for farming skin of shadows?" thanks in advance.

[@Loganthered1]

Um... Untill mm is hit capped on gear they should be going down survival for sure footed. If they stay there they can focus more on extra crit gear. What is worth going down bm to ignore those 2 first tier survival talents?

[@tengil4595]

What about current stage of classic? Does it look the same for T1 and T2? And melee weaving?

[@Faustusful]

one problem.. wow is not only pve.. if you wann do pvp also then you need SV with deterence and counter atck so its alwys about finding balance between pve and pvp

[@SaltyZera]

Only for those who want to PvP, I personally did nothing but PvP in Vanilla, so I have no interest in it now. If you want to have a discussion over the best PvP build, that is certainly a video I can do for sure!

[@abel4870]

the best way to slove conflict between two tribes - mingle them

[@cryp_pando]

Zera I playing mm hunter right now,but I always was interested like can be hunter beat mm or surv hunter in pve?I check google KZbin and other things and I don’t get any information,like ofc u losing tsa,15% multi dmg and 5% range dmg but ur pet will always have 30% attack speed and the reason why I’m asking cos hunters can only have kings and druid buff from raid,but on ur pet working kings,might,shout,druid buff,juju power,juju might,agi scroll that’s a lot of stuff also pet will got zg/ony buff that’s a lot of stuff rly and frenzy talent from bm and ofc last talent rly can do a lot of shit.My point is that ofc u will lose some range dps but instead of this ur pet will deal x2-2,5 more dog then usually

[@TheCrypticmeta4]

did you build that beautiful excel sheet? how in the world did you do that if that was the case and how long did it take?

[@TheCrypticmeta4]

also why Iblis? isn't hatchet of sundered bone a way better weap for a hunter than lblis?

[@SaltyZera]

@@TheCrypticmeta4 Ilblis allows you to maintain Hit %, Going Hatchet isn't worth losing the Hit. However, even if you did that, and gained Hit elsewhere, the end result still doesn't change. Believe me, I tested it LOL Also, the Spreadsheet was designed by WatchYourSixx. The link for it can be found in my Discord, link below, #critical_info channel

[@Nazgruka34]

How soon can we respec to Survival currently full T1 with ZG weapons and Xbow

[@1337139]

it might be worthwhile to do a fully buffed comparison because of lightning reflexes in survival, 15% more agility scales really well with agi consumes + kings + zandalar buff. Great vid

[@7r3x1992]

@Zera What do you think about the fist weapons from ZG for hunters?

[@montanafreedomhomestead3949]

survival is better period

[@soupofthedaytv1954]

Here we go, pressing play now!

[@soupofthedaytv1954]

Oh man, premieres in 1 hour! You're killing me man!

[@SaltyZera]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA GOT EM!!!

[@ichigokurusaki5868]

hey great content love from a horde hunter xx

[@HashtagBirdyy]

If ur pet doesn't stay alive then surv all day bb

[@SaltyZera]

Birdyy you’re not looking at the whole picture. If you’re pets only alive 10% of the fight. MM will perform better. So I’d stick with MM

[@HashtagBirdyy]

@@SaltyZera nah, in melee weaving and my raid comp doesn't have room to put hunters in a melee group to give the tsa.... Surv all day... Also have windfury twists making melee weaving that much better

[@SaltyZera]

Birdyy if you’re talking about melee weaving sure. I’m speaking from a pure range perspective. Hehe. But yes. Survival is absolutely the way to go to optimize melee weaving.

[@Rev0UK1]

who's not running monster slaying as MM at the moment :s 17/31/3 makes the most sense in current content. Wouldn't bother with the humanoid slaying, unless you're concerned about zg / pvp / 5 mans etc just spec for what you mostly do. Once AQ hits 20/31 becomes top again as monster slaying is of little benefit in there, same for naxx, so if you end up raiding mostly aq and naxx with the occassional bwl and mc...then keep 20/31 at that stage.

[@IchinShek]

I too am running 17/31/3. You can just swap between monster/humanoid depending on raid =\ 14/31/6 is just weird.

[@ericknapp2102]

I’m sure it’s not a huge difference, but you probably should have replaced the weapons with agi heavy weapon(s) like barb of the sand reaver or the naxx polearm. But yeah, I’ve done a hybrid build since bwl came out but I don’t put the points into humanoid slaying because zg doesn’t matter. So 17/31/3

[@ericknapp2102]

Just saw the last part. I’m assuming you ran the numbers with the agi weapons

[@ericknapp2102]

It’s a shame they have the weapon skill on the naxx polearm instead of crit

[@SaltyZera]

@@ericknapp2102 Yes, it's true. I ran those and it's a huge DPS loss if you are going range, if you're melee weaving, of course it's great; however, that's not really viable for a number of Naxx encounters if I'm remembering correctly, but for other encounters in ZG/MC/BWL, you can absolutely rock that for weaving.

[@ericknapp2102]

Zera yeah. Unfortunately I think the small advantages that melee weaving gives you on some fights does so at the expense of the hunters best advantage (range). Would still love to have a good 2hander for pvp though

[@SaltyZera]

eric knapp oh absolutely!!!

[@soupofthedaytv1954]

How are there 2 dislikes... The video isn't even live yet!

[@SaltyZera]

Haters gotta hate bro. It's all good, they keep on disliking them only motivates me to make more content. Let's get 'em, boi! :D

[@Darc-uhTealGEEMUrr0vDamezsz026]

thts just hau the motza stirs mi fellow scout

[@kingwudz9308]

Zera i'm having alot of trouble on my hunter :(

[@micahnarraway9208]

Hey man, the one thing I noticed you didn’t bring up (which a couple other comments mention) is that you don’t provide TSA as survival to your group. Which you’ve made up for by providing another hunter for your group. But logistically, I find this unreasonable, as it asks your raid to move one melee out of your group to make room for the survival hunter, and it asks your raid to take on another Hunter overall to provide the extra TSA. To me, survival seems fun, but not really worth it in a raid setting.

[@pbeauchemin66]

for now you should be running 17/31/3

[@Niska00]

1k agi until surv is good.. so maybe with full tiet 3 i can go surv spec kekw

[@SaltyZera]

That's exactly what I'm showing. Even with a Troll, Grace of Air, all of that still gets you to 997 Agility and MM still edges it out. It's not really "best DPS", although, if you just want it for PvP, Raiding and Open World, imo it's the best option to go for. It's list of toys is incredible!

[@darylfong7323]

is this only a debate of you are full cryptstalker? does survival work on t1 or t2 where the total agility is much lower?

[@SaltyZera]

Gear doesn't matter. Whether you are wearing T1, T2, T2.5, T3, full R13 PvP gear, the results are the exact same. If you think about it, that really makes a lot of sense. Because the values are only increasing with each stage of gear. Whereas the Talents are always able to change. Gear simply buffs your build. So the question really just comes down to which Spec better suits your needs. This video simply shows you the comparison in a "Top DPS for Raid" perspective.

[@darylfong7323]

@@SaltyZera Thanks for taking the time to reply. Love the channel. Keep up the good work :)

[@davidkotaska2625]

ZERA!! ive never left a comment on KZbin before. I dont watch certain peoples videos but i watch yours for some reason. IN THE BEGINING OF YOUR VIDEO you say that having more agi from assy as survival vs marks donest matter. But it does cuz survival gets more out agi than marks does cuz lightening reflexes. Plz get back to me i like discussing hunter shit

[@SaltyZera]

David Kotaska you misunderstood me mate. I said it doesn’t cause Survival to be ahead of MM. Regardless of how much agility you stack mate. 😂 of course Scorpok matters. It matters to a Hunter period. Regardless of specs. Haha 🤣

[@davidkotaska2625]

@@SaltyZera ok thanks for replying!

[@tiltnmafks]

lmao just put 3 points into dragon slaying problem solved

[@ufuksogut6960]

Nerubian Slavemaker doesnt give 24 STR?

[@hasepase]

anyone a tltr for this?

[@navyseal63]

crap guide to d&d