Salvation in Wesleyan Theology

How God's Saving grace unfolds in the life of the Christian.
Some Scripture verses that refer to Salvation in the past/present/future tense:
"You have been saved..." Eph. 2:8
"You are being saved..." 1 Cor. 15:2
"You will be saved..." Rom. 5:9
Some simple Biblical descriptions of the movements of Grace:
Prevenient: John 12:32
Justifying: Romans 5:1-2; 1 John 1:9
Sanctifying: 2 Corinthians 3:18

[@MethodistPreacher]

Thank you for having conversations on Doctrines, especially Wesleyan. As a pastor in the African Methodist Episcopal Church we don’t focus much on Wesleyan doctrine, which is outright crazy since we’re Methodists. Our focus is on our founder, Richard Allen and that circle And Black Liberation Theology. However, I believe as African Methodists all three can be interwoven as our foundation.

[@Scotts.Christianity.Teaching]

I'll help you out. I finished this video. And I'm like Arminian and believe people can fail salvation from this scripture I found Galatians 5:19-21 that when sinning that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians was Paul's teachings, proves it can fail eternal salvation. Grandpa believed he couldn't go to Hell, and Arminians believe he could. I'm against suicide. I was depressed also to suicidal. I almost did suicide as a 5-Point Calvinist. And these scriptures got me more hope. I became more Arminian now from these scriptures I posted on here. I believe people can fail salvation. Loving God is wanting to be useful for him much. What if a person could do that much of his time? And I enjoy working from this. People who enjoy working. When it's more likely to be boring to non-Christians. Mark 9:33-35 New American Standard Bible 1995 33 They came to Capernaum; and when He [a]was in the house, He began to question them, “What were you discussing on the way?” 34 But they kept silent, for on the way they had discussed with one another which of them was the greatest. 35 Sitting down, He called the twelve and *said to them, “If anyone wants to be first, [b]he shall be last of all and servant of all.” . This is for Christian world domination. Why to raise kids Christians. God Son Jesus said similarly to whoever is useful the most is the best merited of the apostles. Useful merit for eternal rewards and competition with other Christians. With God Son Lord Jesus Christ faith teaching, people will want to be useful for the kingdom of Heaven, which usefulness happens on Earth and if any other place. We need to help this world as much as we can! This text could motivate, supposed to be Christian people, to do all types of usefulness. Chores, volunteering, grade school, high school, college, and work. Good people, this world needs them.

[@jmdenali]

If Wesley preached holiness, it must be a holiness that is based solely on scripture and Christ's finished work, and not on our denominational desire to be respectable in the eyes of our community and other churches around us. PREACH THE BIBLE!

[@MethodistPreacher]

One Grace we miss, which is between Prevenient Grace and Justifying Grace…Convicting Grace.

[@ChessTeaandNC]

Amen

[@matthewpharis1544]

T,hanks fir sharing

[@matthewpharis1544]

Excelent

[@gailpettee7906]

Interesting theory

[@davidgagnon7806]

Say I get justification. I leave church and get hit by a car and die. Do I go to Heaven with only justification?

[@robertbrock4863]

Sanctification in the dictionaries and in the Bible is a chrises experience. Never a process.

[@danielhixon8209]

Robert Brock, you raise a point I was thinking about just the other day, as it happens: I recall reading (somewhere) in seminary that Wesley held that sanctification was an instant or immediate work of grace; this was particularly true in the early years after his "Aldersgate Experience" when he was more influenced by the Moravians. Later in life (as I recall) he softened this view slightly, holding that it was *generally* an instant experience, but might sometimes be more of a process. This is one point where I am a bit different than Wesley: based on what I've observed in myself and others, becoming like Christ seems to generally occur as a process, though perhaps it could be a single crisis experience. As to Dictionaries, the "Westminster Dictionary of Theological Terms" (1st Edition) defines sanctification as "the process or result of God's continuing work in believers...", so they seem to leave it a bit open to both views. As to Scripture, I'm genuinely curious as to what passages might definitively teach that sanctification is never a process? It seems to me that the whole idea of moving from being "born again" by grace (Jn. 3) to "maturity, to the measure of the full stature of Christ" (Eph. 4:13), or the very idea that we can "grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord" (2 Pt. 3:18) necessarily and logically implies a process, just as growing from a baby to a child to a man is a process (this basic idea seems clear also in passages like 1 Pt. 2:2; 1 Cor. 3:1-2; Heb. 5:12-6:2 and many other passages). Again, I am not actually arguing that sanctification is ALWAYS a process (as opposed to an immediate experience); only that it can be, and often is, both in Scriptural teaching and in the experience of the saints across the ages. It could also be that we are talking about different things when we use the word "sanctification". I use it (following Wesley) to mean "becoming like Christ; becoming holy; genuinely loving God and neighbor."

[@joekelley6442]

My

[@jmdenali]

You completely skipped over water baptism and said that now we have to struggle to overcome sin! Brother, please study Romans 6.

[@danielhixon8209]

N.T. Wright is fond of saying that for preachers and theologians you feel the need to say everything you believe every time you speak, or else people will assume you don't believe it. Be assured that I have a high view of baptism as a "means of grace" and frequently quote Romans 6 in reference to the meaning of baptism (and you are right to point people there to think through baptism); obviously both initial repentance and the ongoing struggle against sin are critically important for Wesleyan theology - it is a 'holiness movement' after all

[@cal30m1]

So God “chooses” to give the sufficient amount of Prevenient grace to some and not to others? Sounds like back door Calvinism to me, speaking as a 1 point Arminianst…

[@danielhixon8209]

It is clear that Wesley's view is that God gives sufficient "prevenient" grace for each and every soul to accept Justification; whether we accept or resist that grace is then, genuinely, up to us. The big difference is that in Wesleyanism, God's intent is always that each person can be saved, whereas in Calvinism that was never even God's will. But it is true that Wesleyanism and Calvinism are much more alike than many people realize; some call them an "in-house" disagreement within the Reformed tradition.

[@matthewpharis1544]

The idea of prevenient Grace did not start with wesley he got it from others

[@believingtruth2839]

Daniel Hixon why you do not fully understand salvation is because it not Wesley Gospel but Paul Gospel we are saved by. Once we are saved we are no longer under the law but Grace of Jesus. We can not sin because we are not under the Law anymore. Romans 4: 14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. Jesus guarantee our salvation by the His Blood on the Cross. But some religions are false teaching so that why people are blinded to the Truth. 1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

[@PETERJOHN101]

At 7:20 you launch into a real problem for me, which is giving credence to the Calvinist view that we cannot "simply choose Christ" when hearing the Gospel OH YES, WE CAN! This idea that we have no ability to choose Christ over the world is a doctrine Satan invented to remove accountability for our sin. Jesus clearly says in scripture that we must choose one of two masters, either God or mammon. (Matt 6:24) Agreement with Calvin followed by tedious amplifications in an effort to clean it up only confuses people. I gave you a chance to reverse yourself but then you doubled down -- you might as well have named this video, "Man's Inability to Repent." I would suggest that you re-script your video to promote the true Gospel and stop trying to please everyone.

[@danielhixon8209]

Hi Peter, thanks for the comments; I think the entire Protestant and Western Catholic tradition agrees that man cannot repent APART FROM the grace of God (prevenient Grace) enabling us to make that turn. However, I hope it is clear that, in the Wesleyan view, we are accountable for our choices - including the choice to accept or resist saving grace - precisely because they are (by God's enabling grace) free choices. If that didn't come through, obviously I need to communicate it better, but these are largely 'unscripted' videos. As to the issue of using "saved" in the past/present/future tenses you can find them in: Eph. 2:8, 1 Cor. 15:2, and Romans 13:11 respectively, to stick with references from Paul.

[@matthewpharis1544]

We can see our way to choose unless gods Grace first acts on us and clears our blindness.,,,, this is what he means

[@Solideogloria00]

Where is Matthew 6:24 Jesus say “chose” or “you’re able in and of yourself to chose without God’s grace”?