San Francisco's Lost Belt Railroad

[@timfross]

My grandfather was chief electrician for the Port of San Francisco. When I was a kid he took my down to one of the piers and they let me drive one of the locomotives (heavy supervised, of course). Got to use one of those hand powered carts like you used to see in cartoons. There's an avocado tree behind the roundhouse that my grandfather planted. The tracks for light rail aren't the old belt railroad tracks. The whole roadway was reconfigured after Loma Prieta and the Embarcadero freeway demolition. I guess you could argue that Muni uses the right of way, but it's 100% new trackage. When they tore up the tracks to re-do the Embarcadero after the freeway came down, we took a few dozen of the old railroad ties and built retaining walls in my father's yard with them. They stunk of creosote for years, but are still standing in San Rafael. Thanks for this one. Brought back some memories.

[@RaymondHng]

I was a programmer analyst for the Port of San Francisco in the '80s. Your grandfather was probably on the payroll system during my tenure.

[@stevens1041]

Born and raised in SF and I had no idea about this. However, I do remember in the 1990s, their was a lot more industry in San Francisco. Also, I remember the piers and the waterfront had an old industrial feeling to them, before a lot of them got remodeled and repurposed as other things.

[@brandons9913]

I had always wondered about he tracks that come to an end right by Fisherman’s Wharf and the arch. Now I know too 😎

[@punchnazis3498]

There still is industry, you just have to go to the southeast corner of the city to see it. Most industry to the north of that has been abandoned/demolished/redeveloped. SF also still has a working cargo port down there in southeast SF, as well as the remaining, operational, segment of the SF Belt Railroad (now called the SF Bay Railroad, which operated 5 miles of track as of the year 2000). This video is a bit misleading, unfortunately.

[@thestevedoughtyshow27]

Born and raised on Telegraph hill I well remember all the tracks. Tracks on Francisco that brought hops and grains to the brewery in hopper cars, the birds would pig out. At the foot of Stockton, across from the bus yard, was the train yard.

[@babyj1313]

Love videos of old San Francisco. But I love correct information too! The current tracks on the Embarcadero are brand new, built for the Trolley line in the 90’s, & are not part of the original SF Beltway Line. But were laid during the reworking of the Embarcadero after the removal of the double decker Embarcadero Freeway after the ‘89 Loma Prieta earthquake.

[@MrEricSir]

Yup, those rails were all built in the late 90's and connect to the upper-level subway under Market Street.

[@punchnazis3498]

The title and multiple statements in the video give the false impression that the SF belt railroad is no longer in operation, even though several miles of it still are operational (under a different name now: "San Francisco Bay Railroad"), and even though the video later does mention that it still exists, at 5:03....very weird. It's in the southeast corner of SF, where it serves the port's cargo terminals and the city's largest remaining industrial zone (which is comprised of a bunch of warehouses, a rendering plant, a scrap yard, a cement plant, and the port, which is mostly used to ship aggregates/scrap/break bulk cargo...if you look at google maps, most of the cars at the train yard at the port of SF are filled with dirt and scrap metal, and there are also a few tank cars used by the rendering plant). To make matters worse, the video falsely states that shipping died out in SF because of LA, which is 400 miles away lol. The real reason that shipping died out in the port of SF, was because Oakland, right across the bay, had enough land to build tons of new container terminals, for the new container shipping age (and is now one of the largest US ports, just like SF once was), while the port of SF had barely any space to expand. Shipping mostly left the city of SF, but not the SF metropolitan/urban area...it simply crossed the bay. To think that it mostly left the region, which is and was one of the largest urban areas in the nation, and just went 400 miles away to LA instead, is really silly lol. This is an interesting video, but misrepresents reality. SF city-proper's remaining industrial infrastructure is kind of obscure to people who don't live near it, so the lack of knowledge of the SF Bay Railroad/SF's industrial zones/cargo port is understandable. The popular narrative (which is mostly true, but not entirely), is that it's all gone already. But completely ignoring the presence and impact of the port of Oakland is a weird move.

[@SFDOM415]

yep that was part of the third st extension

[@RaymondHng]

I was a programmer analyst at the Port of San Francisco in the '80s. There were only three SF Belt Railroad employees on the payroll. They were paid semi-monthly while the former state employees and the city employees were paid bi-weekly.

[@rdlehmer]

Also didn’t mention the San Francisco Bay Railroad, which operates the last bit of the of the Belt Railway that is still functional. They operate a trans load facility off Cargo Way. Their locomotives don’t leave the facility. The Union Pacific comes over from the Caltrain line and delivers and picks up cars. They also have two State Belt locomotives, #23 and #25, stored for possible future display.

[@dzymslizzy3641]

Born & raised in SF: I remember this line very well. Although by the time I came along, it was already pretty much abandoned, but parts were still functioning in the 1950s and early 60s. My dad had lived in SF since 1907, and very well remembered the active period. We'd often go for rides along the embarcadero when he got home from work (in summer during DST) and watch trains maneuvering among the slips and onto barges down at Mission Bay.

[@greenchevy5764]

I’m a native San Franciscan. The Municipal railway never used any of the old Belt Railroad tracks. However… in 1987, Muni Car 578 a former Market St Railway Streetcar built by the J. Hammond car company in 1896 was hooked up to a small generator car and operated up and down the old abandoned state belt rails as a demonstration for the future E and F line. Car 578 still operates as a part of Muni’s fleet today and is a personal favorite of mine being one of the oldest operating electric streetcars in the world 😊

[@WentakFurenti]

One of the vulcan ironworks buildings still stands in wilkes barre and I drive by it on the regular. It's a shame to see so much of our train heritage dissapearing. Love the content btw! Keep up the great work.

[@KentBunn]

At 3 minutes, it's fort Mason. Not Manson.

[@wmtrader]

I recall seeing (in the 1970s) locomotives moving freight cars to and from the wharfs along the Embarcadero and the former industrial area around King Street. Also, the development of the Port Oakland, with its container freight capabilities and its location next to the rail yards (no need for rail car ferries), had as much if not larger impact than the Port of Long Beach / Port of Los Angeles.

[@Bob-sw2zj]

This is absolutely true. Containerization had the biggest impact on SF waterfront's demise. The wharfs didn't have the infrastructure to handle containers but Oakland had container cranes and railroads directly linked to the Midwest. The SF train system had to go through a tunnel south of SF to link up with the Midwest train tracks. That tunnel did not allow double high containers to pass through so it was a choke point and it contributed to the problems with containers offloaded in SF. Additionally, the wharfs couldn't handle the new big containerships length.

[@davidgard8992]

Long ago the RRs brought the car to your business, loading dock etc. Nowadays with all the tracks pulled up the customer brings their goods, usually in the form of an intermodal shipping container, to the RR facility. The railroads don’t want to do anything but haul trains from point A to point B.

[@wmtrader]

@@davidgard8992 - My point was that the tracks along Embarcadero where in use longer that what is stated in the video.

[@history_leisure]

There is interest in reusing the Presidio segment for the Muni F line (Market-Warfs/Castro Streetcar)

[@DeadBaron]

Portland Maine had a similar railroad that cut right through the middle of the city. The passenger station was in the perfect place and everything. They tore out the tracks and demolished the beautiful stone building with a massive clocktower for a strip mall. Now that mall is run down and a total shthole.

[@Juggernogger64]

Fitting for modern portland

[@indowneastmaine]

@@Juggernogger64Wrong Portland.

[@jaggedben]

Tracks are still visible in Aquatic Park and in the Fort Mason parking lot. Even if the flangeways are full of asphalt, and in some places curbs go right across them. Someone at the city and or national park service has been making sure those pieces of history don't get completely paved over.

[@robh.2240]

My dad started as a Teamster in the late ‘50s and one of his jobs as a lumper was to unload these freight cars. He wound up with a full time job at the foot of Potrero Hill and he said they didn’t use the tracks much past the ‘60s. I unloaded freight cars for 3 days once in Oakland. They were filled with 50 pound sacks of coal dust. That’s why I remember the job so well.

[@sniperjdp]

That was a really good review of the rail road lines there.

[@StevenTorrey]

It seems like in the days of San Francisco Beltway, the Embarcadero would not have been all that attractive an area; it would have looked downright seedy and maybe dangerous even as it was an active port. Putting an elevated highway there may have seemed like a good idea.

[@metalstorm242]

I worked on Pier 45 for a few years, you could see some rails still embedded in the asphalt next to the shed doors.

[@frankvierra2487]

GOOD STUFF.... NEVER KNEW THAT.... THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK....

[@freedomforever6718]

Interesting history of the railroad's influence in San Francisco and beyond.

[@jimmelka8132]

Hello Mr. Socash, Cicero-Berwyn Boomer here. As always, great video. The U.S. Navy communication ship I was serving on in 1969 spent a few weeks at Hunters Point while offloading classified material and equipment. This was the U,S.S. Arlington AGMr2, and it was on it's way to be decommissioned at Long Beach, and ultimately San Diego. I remember tracks running a block or so off the pier. Could they have been from the Belt Railway? As you probably already know, Chicago has it's own Indiana Harbor Belt Railroad. Back in the day I used to dodge their trains as they made the curve at 47th St. in McCook. This was just slightly north of the (now gone) giant, main GM Electromotive plant. Thank You for really good content.

[@Gryphonisle]

Nope. The E and F lines run on brand new rail. There was a test run along the freight rails of the Embarcadero (with the streetcar pulling a generator), but once the viability of the F line extension was proven, the rails were ripped out and rebuilt.

[@jcngokai-76]

If the city has the budget to rebuild some of those old tracks that’s been all over Fisherman’s Wharf and Fort Mason, they can extend the Central Subway into those areas, if not for E and F lines as well.

[@TohaBgood2]

@@jcngokai-76 I think the organization that currently runs the F line (and the E line when it returns) is trying to raise money to reactivate the Fort Mason tunnel with a new streetcar turnaround in Fort Mason. they're technically a non-profit so they're trying to raise the funds from private donors and Federal grants.

[@CliifordJessup]

Awesome video

[@Dougc3157]

Great video, glad I found it, as it was interesting history lesson about San Francisco rail line.

[@h-leath6339]

Rad. I've done a ton of shows at the Ft. Mason piers. And I love rail systems too. So that tunnel under Ft. Mason has always been a curiosity for me. You just know there's a secret station under there somewhere. How could there not? Why would you dig under that hill when a level route around would be much more efficient? I wish they'd restore some of those lines for like a tour shuttle or something. It would make a lot of sense. Get on at the ferry building and then go see all the attractions from there to Ft. Point. That would be way cool.

[@morgantrotter8842]

there is a good book on the railroad called " the state belt San francisco waterfront railroad"

[@juliobello4561]

I grew up in Richmond ca. sometimes if I can I go to SF and I always wanted to learn more and more history about the docks and the railroads because I always seen them. Thank you for the history lesson. I wish I could go back in time to see that San Francisco when it was industrial now is all about the tech 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@djmj9147]

Thx you for giving photo credit to my dad Drew Jacksich

[@harrypenn611]

Arrr great picture of Alan on the Flying Scotsman on its ill-fated tour

[@ronaldhorton2438]

I really enjoy your videos. The subscription button doesn't seem to work, I had to resubscribe this time. Thank you for your posts. ❤🎉😊

[@robertbeermanjr.2158]

Very interesting and as always, such a professional delivery. I enjoy your videos very much Mr Socash. Thank you.

[@culcune]

There are numerous tracks crisscrossing many cities that are long out of use. I always wonder if there is a way to get them into use again (I can dream, can't I?), such as some of the track in this video. I personally recall seen street-running trains in downtown L.A. near Union Station up to the late 1980s. What I do find refreshing is catching videos of seemingly old tracks that are still being used to this day. There is a regional beer brewery in New York state somewhere that is still being served by street-running trains delivering ingredients to the company or hauling finished product out of the warehouse. Those videos are but one example of still used tracks.

[@adamberlin4308]

@@culcune It's Utica NY Saranac FX Matt.

[@sanddabz5635]

It's N.Y. Sassaquana railroad right?..... Or something like that? I too find that very fascinating.

[@culcune]

@@sanddabz5635 Not sure if that is the name of the RR--@adamberlin4308 mentioned the KZbin channel 'FX Matt' and Utica sounds like the city. Will have to watch some of those, lol

[@culcune]

@@adamberlin4308 Thank you! That sounds about right.

[@jetsons101]

What a great day. Got a "Double Whammy" today. First; A new video from Ryan "It's History." Second; A video about vintage rail.

[@TRAINBUILDER]

Great video! 🚂

[@Balthorium]

At 1:50 a building signage reads “Crowley” I believe this company still exists as Crowley Maritime Corporation.

[@skyh]

At pier 50.

[@BradHouser]

The tracks running off Pier 43 at 0:01 was where ferries would load and unload railroad freight cars for transfer across the bay before the Bay Bridge.

[@jcure]

My friend built a large model railroad of the SFB in it's diesel heyday. With the material he gathered in research he wrote a book on it. Just search the name of the Railroad and book, should find it available. A real gem.

[@KennethStone]

Great history. A lot of the shipping also moved over to Oakland, post containerization.

[@seanpacificrailroad3700]

This video was amazing thanks for the history lesson 👍

[@ITSHISTORY]

My pleasure!

[@henryostman5740]

The move to container shipping was as dramatic a change for waterborne ocean shipping as was the change from steam to diesel for the railroad industry. It was and is a big factor in the rise in international shipping since the old methods of break-bulk cargo operations could not support such an expansion. One major effect of this change was on the port system, the old system of piers serviced by trucks and railcars simply could not handle the impact of one ship coming into port with a expectation of a one day turnaround of 10,000 or more twenty foot carloads of freight, the pier couldn't handle it, the road and railroad network serving the pier couldn't and new ports needed to be built. The old piers in SanFran fell into disuse as the the piers on the Hudson River in NYC, the Brooklyn and Staten Island waterfronts. The ports of Long Beach and LA as well as Ports Newark and Elizabeth on the East Coast were built with containers in mind, both ports are directly served by main line railroads and Interstate highways. The Bay area needs to consider building a container port of larger capacity in the Oakland area on the east side of the bay, directly accessible to the railway network and interstate highways, this would make SF more competitive with LA and other west coast ports. Do this before Mexico builds a modern west coast port.

[@AlistairKiwi]

It's a great pity that our city leaders of that era were so enamored of automobiles that they threw away such an enormous infrastructure investment.

[@chuckefunn8624]

I can remember see train tracks south of market in the Marina Green Presidio in the 1970’s

[@kyle7110]

You should have included the little bit of the Belt that is still in daily use next to Cargo Way. With one of the original locomotives and a new genset.

[@tysupply8408]

more rail history!!!

[@liam04294]

I believe golden gate railroad museum has scraped those flat cars after they moved out of San Francisco in 2005

[@AlistairKiwi]

Also, so much of everything got ripped up after the Oct 1989 earthquake as I remember. Driving anywhere in S.F. was a nightmare for the next 2 years. Amazing that anything remains.

[@WAL_DC-6B]

The 1949 film noir movie, "Thieves Highway," shot primarily near the San Franciso bayfront, has a few shots of a State Belt Railroad of California, Alco diesel, S-2 switch locomotive (#20) both stationary and in operation.

[@The53BILL]

Saw the railroad travel up and back on the Marina Blvd from 59-64 from my house

[@mikelyon5595]

Interesting. Thank you!

[@stephenmoerlein8470]

Interesting lost history.

[@bender7565]

A story involving San Fran that doesn't involve crime and homeless, thanks.

[@jrmills2468]

They’re far and few between. San Fran and the rest of California has really gone down hill because of the drug crisis.

[@MarloSoBalJr]

SF is no different than Denver as Denver is no different from Portland. It's a widespread issue across the US & Canada that isn't narrowed down to just one city.

[@edfranklin2]

@@jrmills2468no it hasn’t. Lived here 50 years. Stop spreading lies and change the channel from Fox

[@bender7565]

@@edfranklin2 Just don't be a 49er player just walking around.

[@miguelaznar]

At 6:35, you say 4 flatcars are preserved at the Golden Gate Railroad Museum. Google Maps could not find it, but Google shows a website in Sonoma, 50 miles north of San Francisco. When I enter that address into Google Maps, it shows only a building, not a museum or business: 22725 8th St E, Sonoma, CA 95476. Are the flatcars viewable by the public?

[@Alan_5.3_Z71]

@@miguelaznar I don’t believe that’s it I’m trying to find it as well and I’ve been there it’s just a model train store

[@Alan_5.3_Z71]

I found it Golden Gate Railroad Museum, Inc 22725D Eighth Street East Sonoma, CA 95476

[@HELLABOOTSYISH]

When the Golden Gate Railroad Museum moved from Hunters Point in SF to temporary storage at the Nile Canyon Railway museum ( NCRY.ORG) they may have moved these cars there. They have since moved to Sonoma County, shedding a considerable amount of rolling stock into the NCRY collection.

[@Spacingoutwithginger]

A portion of the line is still used to haul freight but it’s part of the Alameda belt line now

[@fastbike175]

almost time for more Chicago videos

[@Rob-xw6dr]

Er, maybe a mention of the shift to container shipping and its impact on various ports would have been worthwhile.

[@matthew_natividad]

Could you do a vid on the Petaluma rail from the 1800s when the town was established?

[@sanddabz5635]

That would be very cool, I'm pretty familiar with Petaluma and the old railroad tracks around B Street in downtown the old ones around the cobblestones and stuff that would have been amazing seeing the action along the river there back in the day.

[@matthew_natividad]

@@sanddabz5635 following the tracks was the first thing I did when I discovered them during hs especially when I saw the map from the 1800s

[@bobkitchin8346]

I was under the impression that the railroad was instrumental in the construction of both the Bay Bridge and the Golden Gate Bridge.

[@TohaBgood2]

Hang on! Isn't the entire thing now restored/rebuilt for light rail and streetcar use? the southern half is being used by the N line Muni Metro trains and the northern half by the F line streetcar. And the E line will eventually be back to serve the entire thing from Caltrain to Fisherman's Wharf. I also remember that the organization that runs the streetcars in SF almost succeeded in restoring the Fort Mason tunnel before the pandemic. I think eventually they will cobble together the money to restore it and run the F and E line streetcars there.

[@tonymento7460]

SF MUNI F line is planning to run the “ F “ line into Fort Mason by using the old right away has of right now it’s just waiting for Federal Funds for it the last diesel engines that ran on this line was the Alco’s S -4 that were owned by by Southern Pacific Railroad leased to the Belt Line these engines are still running on the other end of the Belt Line and are stored near the SF MUNI yard off Third Street in 1990 the last train that ran down this line was a Southern Pacific Railroad MofW train tearing up the railroad tracks from near the Caltrain station all the way near tunnel that goes into Fort Mason it was 2 SD -9 engines with six flat cars there was a MofW wrecking crane on the other track putting the rails on the flat cars

[@sanddabz5635]

Wow. Great info there! Thanks.

[@mdj.6179]

I wonder what connections this has to the Victoria Station restaurant that was at Broadway &Embarcadero?

[@warrengibson7898]

The F line is going strong but the E line, if memory serves, was suspended for COVID and has yet to return.

[@planebois]

DO THE CHICAGO TERMINAL RR!

[@schmidt028]

I got the piston and rod out of number 25 SFBR the ALCO S2 sitting in my living room all 425lbs of it

[@sanddabz5635]

Wow. That's something that not anyone else can say, very cool! BTW, exactly how does one get a 425 lb piston and rod moved into a living room?

[@terrygorman5810]

"Towards the turn of the 19th century?" I hope that the rest of this video isn't filled with more errors.

[@lenseofanomad]

dont understand why they didnt keep it, i was at pier 43 for my birthday last saturday

[@jimratliff2753]

What a nice piece of history. Well done. I remember some of this is a little kid but as you state, most of it is gone. It's unfortunate. Nobody in the city and county of San Francisco government would care to preserve any of it either since they're so liberal and far out of touch with normal society.

[@jesseincognito.]

Sf would be a very different place it those lines were all still active it would’ve been to em in action if that were possible

[@shartbimpson]

do uss liberty next

[@darthmaul216]

Wonder if it could be used for passenger trains

[@pauwanstrainworld6885]

I heard like steam and diesel used to ride on these rails

[@lassepeterson2740]

I was there in time before decline , unless i am mistaking Phyladelfia ?

[@AlwaysCheckmateNeverStalemate]

San Francisco is much older than the writers of history would like you to know. So many old world cities with very old architecture from the last reset exist in the USA. Unfortunately, so many have been destroyed.

[@RetroElijah1982]

👍🏽😎👍🏽🚂

[@johnvonundzu2170]

"You say Asian immigration was thriving" around 1900. Not exactly, the 1882 "Oriental Exclusion Act" would still be in effect for many years and , Japanese & Chinese immigration was legally reduced to a trickle until after WW2. The Belt Line served the Bauer Schweitzer Malt House on Francisco street until around 1980, so there was definitely some regular activity on the line north of Broadway well after the 1960s.

[@danielhoward755]

@@johnvonundzu2170 I recall seeing a hopper car on the tracks in front of the malt house when I was a kid. I always thought it would’ve been odd to see a locomotive winding through the streets just to service that one industry.

[@farisahmadrasyid8697]

I was born on may 2000

[@edfranklin2]

Here’s a really useless tidbit. If you walk in front of the stands at aquatic park the concrete seems are the same width as the track they cover.

[@ultraparadoxical7610]

Fort Mason, not Manson!

[@matthewdoyle6236]

Turn of the 20th century, not the 19th…

[@farisahmadrasyid8697]

Name herliana damayanti

[@barbarakilpatrick3859]

Oprah Winfrey😷⭐️

[@MisterTipp]

Can you please unprivate the China videos? Pleaseeeeeeee

[@farisahmadrasyid8697]

Now nov 2024 my ages is 24 years old now i missing my girlfriend

[@farisahmadrasyid8697]

And im still searching my old girlfriend

[@Stupidaso2]

4449 on a dock railroad lol😂 you foamers are really getting desperate for clicks.

[@The53BILL]

The 4449 was at Aquatic Park in 76 as the Freedom train - saw the Flying Scotsman on the waterfront also

[@mr.iforgot3062]

I think Brian makes up a lot of what he says.

[@MalcoveMagnesia]

You should give Ryan credit -- I'd say he does a lot of research, is honest and trying hard. I've only found super minor things that would require correction or clarification.