Sanctuary • S01E19 • TPN’s Angel Guide

[@MrGeekFreek]

Faith: So......How does this work? Angel: There is no real simple answer to that. I won't lie to you and tell you that it'll be easy. Because it won't be. Just because you've decided to change doesn't mean the world is ready for you to. The truth is no matter how much you suffer, no matter how many good deeds you try to make up for the past, you may never balance out the cosmic scale. The only thing I can promise you is that you'll probably be haunted and maybe for the rest of your life. Faith: *Points to microwave* So how does this work?

[@rahlmaclaren1478]

Stupid 'Time Cook' button!

[@windowsVD]

Lindsey: "Well, you get a little speechy, all right? And I breeze out. I got the Cliff Notes."

[@alysiamerdavid-wasser9165]

@@windowsVD THAT is one of my favorite lines! (Bc it's true!!) 😂😂

[@gopher666]

Actually, I pushed 'defrost' but Joyce was there in the clinch.

[@Wrestlingfan17]

"The Watchers are stupid." Never has there been truer words.

[@Lady-Seashell-Bikini]

Seriously. WHY is the Slayer not on the Watchers Council payroll? She would only be one more employee AND she could keep her focus on training and patrolling. No other jobs needed. The Watchers ARE stupid.

[@jembozaba4864]

Because as far as they’re concerned, she’s just a tool. A weapon to be used as they see fit

[@MrGeekFreek]

I love Cordelia's brief scene in this episode as she scams a paid vacation out of Angel. If it was me I'd be getting the heck out of there too.

[@PassionoftheNerd]

A great highlight. And Charisma probably got the rest of the week off.

[@michaelhawkins1528]

@@PassionoftheNerd Hello please could you do Buffy The Vampire Slayer Season 5,6 and 7 then you would have completed the show. Also Angel Season 5 ?

[@fitzytail896]

This episode could have had cordy go to Sunnydale to bitch about faith to willow...but then again paid vacation...never mind

[@Cleapatra25]

I actually agree I felt that Faiths time on Angel should have been a 3 parter. With Sanctuary ending on the cliffhanger of Buffy's arrival. The resolution was definately rushed and made me want more instead of feeling satisfied. Faith's decision to turn herself in at the end just didnt have the same emotional gravitas that it should have had.

[@runevi]

Well, I don't think anyone can argue against MORE Faith. She may be the most compelling character in the whole series. (at least in my mind) The season could've ended with her finding a way to come to terms with what redemption meant to her. Once the Buffy/Angel/Faith dynamic is out of the way there's a good bit more time for Faith. I always wondered if contemplation in prison was all she ever planned for herself and repentance; I mean she only seems to become proactive in her own life after the Angel squad needs her to break out. Seemed very slapped together by the writers.

[@smpanther]

More Faith, I'd like it. However, I feel this episode was good and the action and lack of break are apart of the reflection of life.

[@BadWolf739]

100% agree, every time Buffy and Faith's conflict was reaching a satisfying crescendo, it was interrupted by the Watcher's Council. When Faith makes an existential appeal about what it's like on the other side and begs Buffy to tell her what she can do to make it better I was much more interested in hearing Buffy answer than question. Instead the whole thing is interrupted by Watchers with machine guns.

[@seanthomas3091]

agreed but then you'd be dedicating 3 whole episodes of a new series to vampire slayers who star in another series. Angel would start to feel like a supporting character by the end of the three-parter.

[@tsukigalleta]

Buffy needed to be extremely angry in my opinion, to illustrate with an example what Angel had explained to Faith: the fact that you're ready to be sorry doesn't mean the people you hurt are going to be ready to accept you're truly sorry. They may never will. And Buffy can be very harsh when she's angry, especially when she's rightfully angry. I didn't find it out of place, although I agree the whole punch thing was indeed out of place. Thank you, Ian!!

[@DinaraTengri]

Yours is the most reasonable take on this debale so far.

[@gulusgammamon]

I think the punch was out of place but that's what makes it very surprising Buffy, resentful and angry, isn't thinking straight.

[@PassionoftheNerd]

I don't disagree. Righteous anger was justified (double face punch aside.) That isn't the thrust of my frustrations.

[@tsukigalleta]

@@PassionoftheNerd I must have missed something then, Ian, because I don't get what your frustration is. Faith's redemption happening in 1 day? I don't think that's the case, because in the previous episode she didn't kill a single person. That's the Faith who said "because it's wrong" to that vampire in the church. Maybe the episode addressing Angel and Buffy's anger at each other? Angel himself had been doubting his own choice to help Faith (remember the cute way in which he tried to find reaffirmation when he was talking to Cordy), so he took it all on Buffy. And Buffy's superiority complex makes her lose it when someone questions her authority, her right to be the leader. In "Becoming part 2" she said to Joyce "just have another drink"

[@virz4432]

@@juzujuzu4555 Partly true, but maybe Buffy saw something on the news about Faith causing trouble this time in LA and that triggered her enough to chase her.

[@2323stickboy]

Season 1 Angel to Wesley: "In case you've forgotten, we're not in the business of giving up on people." Season 3 Angel to Wesley: "You're a dead man, Price. Dead. Dead. Dead." Oh, how the times change.

[@CyPhaSaRin]

Would you not forget all the things you might have said in the past in the heat of the moment, even for a moment? If i had a kid, and hell dimensions existed, and you sent my son there, i'd be doing more that spitting acid, i'd probably attempt to drown you in a tub of it. Besides, Wesley lived on, and Angel saw the light Wesley: “The perception is I'm weak. That's why they went for me.” Angel: “They're wrong. You do what you have to do to protect the people around you. To do what you know is right, regardless of the cost. You know, I never really understood that. You're the guy who makes all the hard decisions, even if you have to make 'em alone.”

[@2323stickboy]

But it wasn't just a moment. Angel went to the hospital intending to kill Wesley. It wasn't a heat of the moment decision. It was premeditated murder. The point of my comment is that Angel is a character that likes to tread the moral high ground when it suits him and completely abandon it when it suits him.

[@leavesoflibra1463]

@@2323stickboy Even so I think CyPha SaRin's point still stands.

[@Philbert-s2c]

+ Juzu Juzu Be fair. He slept with her on her 17th birthday which is far, far better than if she had still been 16. Err, what was my point again? :)

[@windowsVD]

@@juzujuzu4555 Joyce gave Buffy the cake on the day of "Innocence" because Buffy never came home on the day of "Surprise".

[@MANJYOMETHUNDER111]

Buffy needed to be there. She represents everything Faith has to atone for, as she is a victim of her and an amalgam of all her possible positives.

[@mukorgalaxies7766]

Buffy lashing out when emotionally vulnerable seems completely in character to me.

[@PassionoftheNerd]

It does, I agree.

[@BadWolf739]

It does, that's not really where things start to fall apart with her.

[@FreeOpenTruth]

No it doesn't. She is feeling violated by Faith BUT, also the tension with Angel not taking her side for once is completely shocking to her!

[@guilainefeutchine886]

Wdym ?​@@BadWolf739

[@DinaraTengri]

They wrote Buffy poorly in this one, but consider this from a human perspective rather than a storytelling/character perspective. She rushed to LA after having just been violated by Faith. Faith was Angelus in this story. Imagine the storm of emotion, unprocessed and raw, she was feeling, and then seeing her ex hugging and comforting her rapist. Her reaction may be out of character but it's very human. Same as blaming Riley for not knowing he was banging Faith - she wasn't right to accuse him but it was a human reaction.

[@BadWolf739]

Righteous anger is pretty much justified but unfortunately this episode places way too much emphasis on the Bangel drama of Buffy dating someone new and every time Buffy and Faith's conflict was about to reach a satisfying crescendo, it was interrupted by the Watcher's Council. When Faith begs Buffy to tell her what she can do to make it better I desperately wanted to hear Buffy answer that question. Instead the whole thing is interrupted by Watchers with machine guns.

[@Madbandit77]

​@@BadWolf739 Bingo. It's like "Dead Man's Party" when Buffy gets her "intervention". The conflict is "solved" between the heroes when the bad guys attack them. That's not good drama. It's lazy.

[@KRSsven]

I thought they wrote Buffy perfectly in this one. Everything she says and does is completely in character, she’s just not the focus of this show and therefore doesn’t have any of her usual shields to hide behind - those being that Sunnydale is her town, her turf, and also her ‘Slayer as judge and jury’ mentality. It works on her show where she’s a main character. But many people who love Buffy the character have big problems with her being brought down a notch. Angel was right to challenge her. The worst part for Buffy - yet still in character - was her being violent toward Angel yet being utterly shocked when he gave her it right back. Her anger at Faith was justified but her angry at Angel for daring to try and save Faith is the same at her anger at Riley for not somehow telepathically knowing Buffy wasn’t actually in her own body. Even Tara mainly noticed because she has magical knowledge and could see/detect the wrongness of Faith’s energy in Buffy’s body. I still however don’t get Buffy’s ‘we gave you everything’ spiel she repeats every time at Faith. Willow often spouts it too and it’s baffling - what did they give her exactly? Dinner at Buffy’s house that one time? Inviting Faith over at Xmas only because Joyce said she should? Friendship? I must have missed the S3 that Buffy remembers because in Faith’s first episode Buffy is jealous of her and threatens her. That’s in the first episode Faith is in. It’s hardly anyone else’s fault that Faith turned down the dark path, but the didn’t actually do much to prevent it. Only Angel ever had a handle on Faith and he almost got through to her, but we know what happened then.

[@LLLLLL-wp9bz]

@@BadWolf739 hey there, belatedly thought I’ll point out that Buffy already gave Faith her verbal answer in a previous scene. “ if you apologize to me I will beat you to death”. The Watchers attacking allows Buffy to SHOW Faith what is needed , ACTION. Buffy acts to save Faith because as a hero Buffy does the Right Thing. And in her next scene Faith finally takes action and does the Right Thing. Just my two cents.

[@LLLLLL-wp9bz]

@@Madbandit77 I mean at this point words weren’t gonna change anything. Faith had to make real acts of contrition. And even then forgiveness could only be a gift to be hoped for not owed or expected.

[@SkolneyVikings]

"So you decided to punish her with a severe cuddling"

[@demisaysstuff]

I always thought Buffy's behavior and portrayal in this episode was indicative of what she looks like to other people at times. It's Buffy without context, which we normally get. Buffy is an imperfect hero in her own show. When the focus is on anyone else she's sometimes a stubborn zealot. She's a villain in this episode. Specifically her zealotry as a gate to Faith's redemption.

[@josephdavis9234]

12:35 I actually made the mistake of watching the first season of Angel before any of Buffy. I can confirm that this first impression was not a good one, and it did affect my thoughts on Buffy as a character until I saw her show.

[@Alejandro333777]

Woww

[@LauraM-kr9wv]

She was really out of character in this episode. Maybe it was necessary because they had to write her out of the whole Faith situation, but it wasn't fair to her.

[@shayla106]

Alice Mar No this is Buffy, she emotionally hurting and lashing out. This is in character for her and most of the gang.

[@unnderneath]

@@shayla106 Right? I don't understand why people see Buffy as the "bad" guy here. Imagine someone did what Faith did to Buffy, you'd probably react the same way, if not worse.

[@queenfreddie861]

Swear to god every character is allowed to be upset or angry but as soon as it’s buffy all hell breaks lose

[@shirleykeeldar9662]

True! So true. Buffy is never allowed to be angry, upset, make a mistake or just take a FREAKING MOMENT to deal with her emotions, before someone's accusing her of being in the wrong.

[@William-the-Guy]

I think it's because Buddy is usually the mouthpiece for the writers, so her speeches are assumed to be what the audience is intended to believe, instead of her being flawed and making mistakes.

[@jrreedve2825]

It’s rare, but Buffy does have the habit of losing to her emotions, and making her act out of character. When she was bad, Anne, running into her own head during the glory arch, being willing to kill any of the schoobies if they tried to kill dawn, ALL OF HER/SPIKE after she was resurrected... Seeing another woman, FAITH of all people, in Angels arms made her see red. And it’s not the first time she’s had jealousy over Angel and Faith spending time together. And again the depths of which Faith has hurt her. Also, it can be said that Angel didn’t hit Buffy till after she tried to throw the second punch.

[@quinnsinclair7028]

JR Reed The problem is that the episode is about Angel and Faith yet Buffy consistently hijacks the purpose of the episode. Buffy’s drama supersedes Faith’s change of heart. Buffy should have added to that as the person that Faith had the most to atone for. Instead she detracted from it by making the episode about how much the Angel/Faith stuff sucked for her.

[@zenithquasar9623]

I kind of like this episode and Buffy’s “I had enough of Faith’s bs” and her anger. And contrasting goal of Angel because for Angel, saving Faith feels like saving himself. He goes through the same thing with Darla. Buffy never experiences this, she cannot fully empathise with what it means,

[@Philbert-s2c]

Buffy's "out of characterness" can be justified by the intense trauma she's just experienced in "Who Are You?" I had never really considered the "Buffy/Riley rape" before watching the episode guide for that episode but yeah, that's pretty much what Faith did to them both. Buffy at that point is pretty obviously suffering from PTSD and is completely out of her comfort zone in LA. She shows up looking for support from her ex-and she finds him comforting the person who just tried to take her life from her. So yeah, lashing out at Angel might not be the most mature thing she could have done but given the internal stress she's under, it's perfectly understandable.

[@ialwaysbesingin]

It's like Angel said perfectly, "you weren't concerned about me you were looking for vengeance" pretty much sums up Buffys unnecessary jealousy when it comes to Faith. Her character doesn't work on Angel at all, this just proved it.

[@oliviamackenzie9725]

I love the title of this episode "Sanctuary". For me it brings to mind the old tradition within the church where people being hunted could claim sanctuary in a church or holy place. Often criminals would claim sanctuary in order to avoid getting arrested, therefore avoiding answering for their crimes. I think what this title conveys is that Angel's wasn't a place to seek redemption but essentially a hiding place where Buffy, the Watcher's council and the police were all swarming, waiting to get their hands on her. By turning herself in she was giving up the brief sanctuary Angel offered and submitting herself for judgement and hopefully atonement.

[@JMV1616]

When angel hit her back and she makes that face i don’t think it’s a “how dare you” it’s a “how did we get here?” Horror that they came to blows. Both of them. I think she’s horrified at her own behavior as well. Think of how when domestic violence can be two sided like that. I’ve made that face when saying unforgivable things in anger to someone I love, I can’t imagine if we hit each other ya know?

[@KRSsven]

I loved what this episode did - it stripped away Buffy’s shields of ‘I’m the slayer therefore I’m right’ and ‘this is my town’ and showed how petty and bratty she could be. Angel sums it up so well when he says she can’t come down here and expect things to be done her way. I also love the zinger ‘Buffy this wasn’t about you!’ Sums up exactly what this episode was trying to say. Angel was wronged by Faith massively too - but instead of wrathful fury he wanted to save here. This episode’s portrayals of Buffy are COMPLETELY in character, we’re just used to her drama on her own show where she’s essentially treated as always right and judge/jury of everything and everyone.

[@seeaaannnn]

Ok. I have always wondered what faith would have said to Buffy in that motel room scene. I can't describe how shook I am with how you answered that long burning question

[@Alejandro333777]

14:00 mins in I feel like it was when after everything that happened Buffy STILL CHOSE TO SAVE FAITH FROM THE WATCHERS after that I think faith realized she had to do the right thing…. “ I’m Buffy I have to do this”

[@veronicapomar6010]

I have never gotten an alert of a video that wasn't done yet so that's new.

[@mireilleblacke6567]

Me either!

[@orlandopascal1]

Jesus! Your commentary on every episode is extraordinary! So detailed and precise! You hit on things that I noticed but couldn't really articulate.

[@KitchenSinkSoup]

I remember that punch scene pissing me off so much. So it's alright for you to hit Angel then?

[@KitchenSinkSoup]

@Laverne Blaszczyk THAT was not a healthy relationship...

[@MichelleZB]

Buffy does tend to use her fists instead of her words and I must admit it's not her most charming quality. She, Angel, and Spike are superheroes so probably a punch in the face doesn't hurt them as much as it would the rest of us BUT STILL

[@reaceness]

Nah- I don't think Buffy was shocked that he hit her, I think she was shocked that he hit her FOR Faith

[@ZackJ100]

Not only does she hit him, she goes to hit him again. Like is Angel just supposed to take a beating from Buffy?

[@TheBigdan18]

Haha over here rewatching Angel on 4 in the UK and I came to this comment section to see if anybody had mentioned this. It's so hypocritical of Buffy, it's almost hilarious!

[@MrSergeta]

I had to think about my response to your review and your thoughts on how Buffy behaved this episode. This is going to be complicated for I both agree and disagree regarding Buffy. I do agree that Buffy was behaving very close to insufferable here. Her continuing outbursts to Angel, then bragging about Riley is probably one of her low points in both series. Buffy was only surpassed by Kate for being bitch of the week, by just a hair. What I disagree with you is that Buffy is acting out of character. I say this mainly because of the Buffy's situation and current mindset. In your video you mentioned how the different times Buffy treated Angel harshly, which was she either realized she was in the wrong or she experiences some bad karma. You claimed Buffy learned from those experiences and accepted her and Angel circumstances. Keep in mind in all those arguments it was only Buffy and Angel involed. The problem for Buffy this time around is Faith and her unresolved issues with her from the body swap. Remember that Faith stole and used Buffy's body. Like you said, Faith practically raped both Buffy and Riley. That's not going to be so easy to recover from psychology and Buffy seeing Faith hugging Angel didn't do any favors. As much as I found Buffy annoying, she had justifiable reasons to be hostile to Faith. Does this excuse her behavior to Angel? No. But Buffy wasn't in the right head space to think clearly. Two quotes from Buffy in this episode express her points clearly to me: "I've lost battles before, but no one ever made me a victim." and "See, Faith wins again." The second quote is very telling to me of Buffy's mental state as she was still focused on Faith at the very end. Buffy was unable to resolved her feelings and aggression towards her (that didn't happen until season 7 of Buffy). So she lashed out to Angel, using Riley to hurt him. It's kind of sucks that this was the last time we saw Sarah Michelle Gellar as Buffy in the Angel's show as it probably gave a horrible impression of the character to fans who only watched Angel. But despite being annoyed by her behavior in this, I feel I understand why. Thanks for the review, Ian!

[@guyr3618]

"L.A. is where people come to be redeemed, to atone and seek forgiveness. And Angel is their champion, whose own wrongdoings eliminate him from laying down judgement." Unless their name is Lindsay.

[@guyr3618]

@@defrostedrobot77 Those are only differences of degrees. Lindsay may have had MORE chances than Faith, but Faith had several chances too. Faith may have had a rougher background than Lindsay, but Lindsay had a pretty rough background too. Angel's treatment of Lindsay, in the end, showed that he abandoned his mission of saving souls. That's the fact. Whether that abandonment fits the narrative or not, well, that's a different question.

[@alexhyde8820]

I really love Lindsey as a character, I think he was portrayed well, and I like his relationship with Angel. To me, it's one of the more fun and interesting ones in the Buffyverse, because it seems as though there's some element of mutual respect (especially at the end of season five) even though they hate each other (or, Angel hates Lindsey.... It's kind of canon that Lindsey was into Angel.... Though I guess Lindsey could've still hated him....). Anyway, Lindsey's an interesting case, a grown man with plenty of chances who'd never proven to be particularly trustworthy--I think that while Angel might've still believed in saving souls, he didn't believe that Lindsey's could be, or at least, didn't think that it was wise to trust Lindsey and try to save his soul while also trying to save others' (a "the needs of the many" situation). Also, Lorne's precognition factors in here, too. When he kills Lindsey, he tells him that Lindsey isn't "part of the solution". Lorne must've seen that Lindsey would eventually betray them, even if he was genuine in the moment about wanting redemption. I don't know if it's canon, but I think Lorne saw that he'd be the one to kill Lindsey when Lindsey sang, and just kept quiet about it for years.

[@guyr3618]

​defrostedrobot77 Yeah, Lindsay sinned. So did Faith. So, I can totally blame Angel for MURDERING Lindsay after he just helped them fight evil. Plus, Angel's entire attitude toward Lindsay had been completely different than his attitude toward Faith, from day 1. With Faith, Angel was always as gentle and comforting as he could possibly be. With Lindsay, he was all like "well fuck you, this is all your fault, and you have stupid hair". Faith & Lindsay both needed redemption, and they both asked for it at points, and they both felt like mirrors of Angel... but Faith somehow got all of the love, while Lindsay got all of the scorn. Honestly, it does kinda feel like Angel only accepted Faith because of her "pouty lips" and "heaving bosom". @@alexhyde8820 Even if Lorne saw that Lindsay would betray them (which is totally possible, albeit unconfirmed) that still doesn't justify MURDERING him. He could have just thrown him in some sort of jail. He wasn't in a "kill or be killed" situation - Lindsay was unarmed and friendly when he was killed. Killing Lindsay was a total betrayal of the "saving souls" mission.

[@windowsVD]

@@guyr3618 I guess you forgot the part when Angel was willing to just shoot Faith in the leg and be done with it? I doubt he would have had much luck getting through to her after blowing her leg open had the gun actually been loaded. Angel was perfectly willing to go on the offensive with Faith, it wasn't until he realized how suicidal she was that he saw a chance to help her. The thing is, Lindsey never asked for redemption, he only ever wanted OUT when things got bad. Angel himself encapsulates the problem with Lindsey in Blind Date; "You're panicking right now. You can't believe how bad you let things get. *That's not change. You have to make a decision to change.* That's something you do by yourself. Most people - they never do." This is why Lindsey was NEVER the same as Angel or Faith. Lindsey has never actually tried to change, he only ever bailed when the company did something so awful that even he didn't want to be a part of. But even then, he was ready to jump back in as soon as Wolfram & Hart gave him an offer too tempting to refuse. Lindsey never once expressed guilt for anything that he has ever done and was an opportunistic leech at every chance he got. The man was pretty much a sociopath all the way through. Someone else once also explained it really well in the forums; "Lindsey doesn't make the choice to be a better man. He doesn't want to be a better man, he is just hit in the feels and decides he's not quite *that evil* of a man. It just means he has a weak spot (which is exclusively related to his own background and specific for this one instance), not that he repents being evil, having done horrible things, or intend on ceasing to be evil in other regards. He is just looking to manipulate the circumstances to his liking, not attempting to change himself or the world to a better place." He was never going to be thrown in any sort of jail because the deal that Lindsey agreed on with Angel in order to help them was that if/when Angel and co inevitably get destroyed by W&H, he would be next in line to become CEO, hence "the devil you know" line. Angel then asks him why he is agreeing to help them and he confirms that he isn't doing it to atone, he is doing it because as he said himself, he just wants to be there for the big fight and let's not forget the corporate deal of a lifetime as well. Little did Lindsey know, Angel was offering him a lifeline there if you pay attention to how intently he was listening to his answer. That was the moment when he knew that Lindsey would never atone and Angel was never going to let someone like him run W&H on his watch.

[@windowsVD]

@@EmoBearRights The man has to display that he has a conscience in the first place though, which Lindsey pretty much never does. Sure, he has moments where he isn't willing to go through with something too extreme, such as participating in the murder of children. However, having somewhat of a moral code is by no means definite proof as sociopaths are very much capable of living by certain morals. The fact that Lindsey immediately goes back to working for the same child-murdering law firm once offered a promotion to me demonstrates the lack of an actual conscience as well as the fact that he never once shows an inkling of guilt over anything he has ever done. It's really always a case of, "I'm evil, but I'm not THAT evil!" So far, Lindsey pretty much checks all of the boxes of traits that are commonly associated with sociopaths. You're correct that Lindsey certainly craves Angel's attention, but I don't think ever had plans to be recognized as an ally to Angel. He has had opportunities to join Angel's team but gave them up either to continue working with W&H or to be on his own. While Lindsey may work with Angel when it suits him, but I think he knew that they would always inevitably be on opposite ends.

[@scifinerd17]

I always thought that the whole Bangel stuff in this episode was just simply part of an overall arc of them still trying to get over each other that all started in Pangs and ends in The Yoko Factor. Buffy acts selfish and out of character here because she’s still in pain and the episode didn’t give her enough screen time to allow her to think things through and reflect on how harsh she’s being, and then in The Yoko Factor when Angel returns to Sunnydale to apologize to Buffy, she apologizes back to him as well for the way she acted. That’s why I always saw this is a small part.

[@laotasurfs1110]

I always felt like Buffy was OOC in this episode because she wasn't on her own show anymore, the world that revolved around her. On A:tS, however much Buffy meant, it was always in relation to Angel, not the universe, and when Faith more embodied the themes of Angel's world of darkness and redemption, Buffy transformed into the self-righteous ex who doesn't understand what it's like to cross the line and need that kind of forgiveness. Anything she or Wesley said about Faith could easily have been said about Angel, only she didn't do near the damage he did and didn't have he immortality to eat rats for a century and get over it. Notice when Angel goes to BtVS to apologize, he turns into Buffy's jealous, bumbling ex who she graciously forgives.

[@freshPrincess626]

! Wild how a lot of people don’t seem to get this, lol. 1) the “Buffy was ooc” thing is wild, considering this is the same person who got so fed up with Faith’s antics she tried to feed her to Angel in the previous season. 2) the “Angel” setting does not revolve around her and is not seen thru her pov/wants/motivations, so going after Faith-getting in the way of ANGEL’S intentions-made her an antagonist in this ep. This was all, like, THE POINT. And clearly encapsulated in her and Angel’s fight at the end (and in their conversation in the next BTVS ep).

[@debishmac]

I agree I would have loved a more Angel as Faith's sponsor ep, but I disagree about the representation of Buffy. Maybe some watchers don't know Sunnydale Buffy well...but we do. Buffy may be a hero but she is still a recently traumatised girl (again). Whenever she sees Angel in LA she hardens her exterior. She has to hold herself in. To see Angel & Faith embrace (let's not forget her reaction after 'enemies') just after the Faith carnage in Sunnydale, turns out to be a literal slap in the face. I also feel her righteous anger would have been understood by Wesley & Cordelia in the scene. As understandable as Buffy's pain is, it looks too small compared to Angel prioritising saving Faith's future & soul. But there's a moment on the roof where Faith cracks Buffy's disbelief in her. And let's not forget Buffy does help them, despite her anger. Wesley comes through, but for Buffy to do it is much more complicated & challenging. We don't love the end scene between them because we think it's beneath Buffy to cause Angel pain by telling him she's happy with someone else, who gives her what she needs ( all the reasons Angel decided to leave her). We know Angel loves her & what it makes him feel. But she feels betrayed. And that's understandable. She took her moment.

[@vedwalker3974]

So, basically, it's about power. She had it. He didn't.

[@babs3241]

I see what you mean, but the shows were so separate at that point that I also found it jarring, simply because it wasn't developed as a traumatized reaction, but portrayed--including by Angel--as just being an inflexible aggressor. On the flip side, my other problem with it was that it wasn't what we saw of her at the end of "Who Are You?" where she seemed to understand just how bad things had gotten for Faith in the course of her crime spree. At the end, while she was obviously hurt, she had also been on the receiving end of the "You're worthless" beat-down, and when Riley suggested that she'd "had her fun," Buffy acted as if she knew this had been anything but a lark for Faith... so, while I wouldn't expect her to be first in line with the cool-down hug, based on her prior behavior, I'd expect her to not be an active obstacle. (And, to be fair, when the goober squad attacked, Buffy was on Faith's side.)

[@quinnsinclair7028]

Not all of us know her from Buffy. As a fan of Firefly and someone who was put off of watching Buffy by religious parents I watched Angel not knowing they were related. By the time I realized it was a spin-off I was too hooked to stop but Buffy’s portrayal in this episode actively put me off watching Buffy. She seemed so inflexible, so antagonistic, so quite frankly bitchy that I didn’t think I could enjoy a show that had her as a main character. Watching it again with context softened her actions in my mind but this episode does virtually nothing to communicate the underlying conflict between Faith and Buffy. On first run through I was kind of left with the impression that Buffy was angry because Faith stole her boyfriend which doesn’t exactly justify her actions in the episode. Buffy had a valid reason to be angry but every frame of the episode is devoted to making you understand Faith’s perspective and sympathize with it. The end result is that Buffy’s perspective is devalued as she’s cast as the villain. The episode would have been much stronger if they’d focused on a character examination of everyone involved rather than so much action.

[@zsmorr92]

I always liked the bit where Buffy and Angel traded blows, and I never once felt that it was out of character for her.

[@casbot71]

[TL:DR] Faith going to prison and throwing in with Mayor both were a suicide by proxy where she destroys her place in society and betrays her previous ideals and objectives. And in both situations Angel is prevented from saving Faith by the Watchers and inadvertently by Buffy forcing Faith to make a decision about where to go. …… Faith turning herself in at the end may have been a form of suicide as well. She is effectively making her life end, she is giving up on herself and ever being part of the world - she expected to do her full term (which would be ending about now in the real world) and didn't know that the lineage now went through her* This may parallel her actions at the end of 'Consiquences' [season 3 episode 15], joining up with the Mayor may well have been a form of suicide as well. Faith is not killing herself, she is killing the idea of herself, everything she stood for and believed in. And in some respects the destruction is even more total than if she had just died, then she would have been remembered as one of them who fell, not the monster that is the anti Faith or anti Slayer. Also the original intention of the character arc of Faith was that she did commit suicide at the end of the previous episode 'Bad Girls' and Buffy finds her hanging in her room instead of being in complete denial about her actions. So Faith is in a suicidal mindset there as well, although Faith's character has always been suicidal, from her extreme risk taking and impulsiveness to general behavior and lifestyle. Ironically prison and then specifically Angel's therapy session when they are both inside his mind with Angelus are what finally help her overcome her deathwish. There are other parallels with 'Consiquences' as well, particularly the Watchers and Buffy both inadvertently destroying Faith's chances. In 'Consiquences' Angel is also in the process of saving Faith's soul and would have succeeded if events hadn't conspired against him. The Watchers definitely stuff things up, (with the irony that if the council had investigated or cared about her pre Slayer life she could have received therapy to help her deal), but Buffy did as well. In 'Consiquences' if Buffy hadn't found Faith on the docks, she would have left town on the freighter, had a chance to clear her head, and probably come back in a little while (or a few months) having had a couple of her own adventures and a bit of perspective on Sunnydale. In 'Sanctuary' if Buffy hadn't turned up just before the Spec ops team hit, Faith wouldn't have been spooked and run, Angel and Wesley could have got her out via the sewers and then maybe contacted Giles to give him the situation and get everyone to calm down, or at least hide her till the heat died down. Although it was Buffy's outburst about serious jail time that would have inspired her to turn herself in, she was trying to appease Buffy and make amends. The big problem with this episode and the ongoing character arc of Faith though is that there never was the resolution or big emotional scenes with her and Buffy. Season 7 of 'Buffy' only had two small conversations without the drama that their history and relationship deserved. That was because the storyline was too busy, but really they could have devoted an entire episode to just Faith and Buffy having a "deep and meaningful", (Spike got his big emotional episode just before Faith arrived). Someone else suggested that Faith's LA arc should have been a three parter, with Buffy arriving at the end of the second episode and the third dealing with her and Faith, giving justice to such an emotional interaction, ending with the action of the Watchers team. That would give the second episode more time to delve into Faith's rehabilitation and perhaps her opening up about her tragic past, explaining Angel's championing of her against Buffy's wishes, particularly if Faith reveals (or Angel perceptively works out) an abusive childhood that helped trigger her descent - it is suspicious that she flipped in 'Consiquences' when Xander said "We have a special connection" which is something a pedophile would say to their groomed victim. And her flipping out when Riley says "I love you" seemed like a flashback, that cause her to dissociate about her own identity (And what if she only started remembering or thinking about it after then?). This could also come back to haunt Faith during her later battle with Angelus, he would really hurt her with that intimate knowledge. As for not being paid when in Sunnydale that raises the disturbing question of how did Faith get her money for rent and living expenses? She didn't appear to have a regular job and she would disappear for a few days or so every once in a while, which suggest that she was doing sex work in another town (either Vegas or LA make sense), and trying to hide it from the gang. There also is the impression that she's playing 'gay for pay' when she's about to rob Lila [The directors notes said to make sure Eliza didn't play up gay angle cause she wanted to…FOX]. Someone like Faith from an (almost certainly sexually) abusive background living on the streets since early teens would have turned to sex work to survive, she probably even fell afoul of wanna be pimps like the guy she beat up at the bus terminal. Her hypersexuality and attitude to sex are massive red flags to having a seriously sexually abusive childhood. As for the aftermath of this episode and the Faith character they could have filmed a whole bunch of short sequences of her life in jail [filmed at once] and her evolution, to be slotted in as fillers or interludes in either series when they had a bit of space. *I'll "briefly" explain how Faith should have been introduced in season 6 of Buffy according to the internal logic of the show, and just the basic changes necessary, in a reply to this thread, as it's now approaching essay length.

[@casbot71]

*With Buffy no longer being the lineage holder, as proven by no new Slayer being called after her second death, it doesn't make sense from an in universe perspective for the Council not to resolve the Faith situation. The Council didn't know Willow was going to resurrect Buffy, so their plan was to just sit around until Faith gets parole in 25 to life? What would have made sense [and great television], is the Council, seeing Faith's attempt at redemption, arrange for her to be released (the murder conviction relied on the confession of a suicidal delusional woman who just woke up from an eight month coma and claimed her body had been stolen when she was first captured, and there were external forces with the mystery of her being stabbed, the school bombing, the armed hijacking of her and the helicopter shooting at her…!). She arrives back with Giles to Sunnydale to discover that Buffy is alive again. The Council had already arranged as part of her parole that she had to stay in Sunnydale, to keep her on a leash. The slow episodes of season 6 can have some Buffy Faith emotional conflict, and Faith can even add to the theme of misogynistic rage and toxic sexuality that was the series arc, showing the lifelong damage that it did in her case. Season 6, while when viewed in its entirely did make sense, episode to episode it did have it's failings and tired moments. The scenario would just need a little tweaking to account for Faith's presence. Buffy could forbid her from killing the trio, on pain of being turned in by Buffy and also being shunned forever. It would also better explain Giles leaving if he was being used by Buffy as an intermediary between Buffy and Faith, as she refuses to really talk with Faith. He left to force Buffy to resolve her issues with Faith and to try and get the Council to give Faith a clean slate (so she can move to LA and join Angel, as she is falling apart under the pressure in Sunnydale). Faith, while aware she has mental/emotional health issues, is still not quite stable, but she's turning it against herself. Her guilt prevents her lashing out, and she is a red herring about the eventual big bad. She overhears Willow point out that Buffy improved after getting angry and tries to provoke Buffy from then on to help Buffy break out of her depression, and as a form of self punishment. [Eliza has a good singing voice for 'One more with feeling', but it would have to be contrived for her not to reveal all to the group, perhaps a solo]. The gang splits in their opinion of Faith with the original gang being against her and the newer members showing sympathy, with Dawn coming round after a while. During the memory wipe 'Tabula Rosa' a lesbian rights leaflet from Tara or Willow is picked up by Buffy just before the spell hits and Faith makes a sarcastic joke, Buffy shoves her, they fall on each other as they pass out, and wake up thinking they're a couple, giving the Fuffy crowd a thrill, but not making it a official part of their history. Buffy/Joan is protective of Faith/Alice (choosing her name someone says "Go ask" And Faith interrupts with "Alice"). But afterwards Buffy has a slight gay panic which makes her nervous to be around Faith and helps drive her to Spike. And Faith is torn between being loved by everyone during the amnesia (they all feel protective) and her fear that Willow could have taken her back to her psychotic self, a false hint to the audience and cover for Willow's fall to darkness. When Tara and Willow spilt Tara moves in with Faith in Giles place while he's overseas, leading to recriminations as Faith is blamed and mistakingly suspected of trying to steal Tara. Meanwhile Faith and Tara form a beautiful platonic friendship (after some awkwardness from Faith assuming she had to repay kindness as a debt, like with the Mayor) as Tara with her empathic nature, genuinely cares for Faith and Faith learns to open up and tells Tara her pain (Although Giles could have primed Tara to help Faith). Then there's Riley's visit that sends Faith crashing. And later on in the season Faith is getting better and stable, coming to terms with herself through Tara's unconditional acceptance. The others realise she's honest about making amends and Buffy discovers that Faith was deliberately getting Buffy to beat her, out of guilt and Faith was covering for her and Spike. So near the end Faith is happy, it looks like she's accepted by all especially Buffy, she gets Tara back with Willow out of gratitude to Tara and then when Tara is murdered she falls apart, joins up with dark Willow as the battery for Willow's power, helping explain the mechanic of how Willow could be so next level in power. And together they kill Warren (Faith castrates him bare handed). Then when Dark Willow attacks Buffy Faith either turns on Willow or goes catatonic. And Faith explains Willow's sudden decision to destroy the world a lot better than just she felt the pain of everyone. Instead she looks through Faith's memories trying to convince her to switch back and gets the suicidal urges from Faith, and as she see's the pain of Faith's sexual abuse, with her power she feels all the sexual assaults around the world and decides then to destroy the world [a scorched earth #metoo]. That would make a controversial episode, a grieving lesbian decides to kill everyone to spare the world the pain of sexual abuse that she felt in the mind of a victim (And former teen prostitute?) that has hypersexuality and mental issues due to childhood rape experiences. As a side note Dark Willow's plunge through Faith's mind forces Faith to relive her trauma over again and by the end of the season she's in severe shock and damaged. In early season 7 she blames Buffy for not allowing her to kill Warren before, and by the middle of the season the First has been pulling a nasty mind game on Faith in an attempt to drive her insane like her old self, then the later episodes can proceed on a roughly similar path. This is a simple outline, I'm sure the actual writers could come up with something much better. It shows what a lost opportunity it was not to include Faith earlier and give her and Buffy the scope their relationship deserved.

[@josephdavis9234]

4:49 "You ever try to clean an actual slate? You can always still see what was there before."

[@toshomni9478]

Another fantastic review. Considering that Buffy was willing to kill Faith even before the horrific events of Who Are You, which is also out of character for her, the fact that she acts differently when it comes to Faith than with anyone else, perhaps because of their sismance relationship that bordered on just plain romance, is in the end not out of character after all.

[@sydneyh5352]

"angel please get her an oversized shirt, baggy sweatpants and pint of ice cream STAT" I loved your comments on her clothing. It's reminiscent of a knight coming back from a devastating battle.

[@582time]

When Buffy said "Faith wins again" I always thought well no she's going to jail and she's trying to face her problem. Faith would only win if she ran away again and learned nothing by the end of the episode. But she does learn so it's Angel win.

[@Melissa-tw2gp]

Totally agree. This episode needed to be more about healing. When I first watched Angel, I wore out the taped VHS of this episode by playing the first ten minutes over and over. It’s still one of my favorite parts of the entire series and deserved more development. Angel is a better character with Faith around to reflect back at him. Enjoyed this analysis!

[@Ruby-Sinclair]

I watched Angel before I watched Buffy. By a few years. I HATED Buffy when she first came in Angel because I loved Angel and she caused him pain. It took a while for me to get Buffy the show because I didn't like her. Faith was to me at first the better slayer. Yes she tried to kill Wes but she changed. I have always valued change in characters even when they were evil! I just wanted to give you the perspective of a person who watched Angel first

[@techsoul5590]

Exact same here, I watched my angel dvds 3 times through before I gave Buffy a chance

[@ConstantCommentTea]

I also watched Angel first, but not by much. I was watching Buffy before I finished watching Angel (although I still finished Angel first - it's always been my favorite). I didn't hate Buffy's character because of this episode, but that's more because I didn't care about her. I didn't know her, and I was still getting to know Angel and the others, so I really didn't put much thought into who she must be one way or the other until I decided to watch the show Buffy. So for my part, watching Angel first didn't really matter in how I saw Buffy because I didn't pay super close attention to her. But you know, I've never seemed to love Buffy's character the way everyone else seems to, so maybe the portrayal of her in this episode subconsciously had something to do with that? I'd have to think about that. Related, I *love* Angel telling her off at the end, not because I hate Buffy or ever did hate her, but because I thought that her self-centered, bratty attitude in this episode IS justified and IS in character, but is NOT appropriate to act on given that Faith's redemption was on the line. It was a beautiful scenario of choices, and I think Buffy acted as most people would (especially given her struggle with her superiority complex, which Faith aggravates), and I love that Angel got to be the one to stand up and tell her to be a grown up. It's why I love this show more than Buffy: it's about being a grown up, and I have always been deeply irritated with people behaving like children unless they literally are children (and even then...). This scene definitely influenced my thinking of Angel's character as an adult in a positive way, even if I didn't pay as much attention to Buffy herself.

[@canisinferno184]

I, as well, watched Angel first. I greatly disliked Buffy, due to appearing like a self-centered, annoying braty child who can't get over break up with Angel. "I have a something new, new Boy friend and i'm trying to move on", that's why he went in the first moment.

[@queenfreddie861]

canis inferno buffy is literally the least self-centred character, I mean she literally died twice to save everyone! When faith first came to buffy, buffy tried to help her and she only turned on her when Faith tried to kill Angel. Why is everyone forgetting that Faith, tried to seduce angel, had sex with buffys new boyfriend, flirted with spike, raped buffy, tried to frame her for murder and sent buffy of to her death. Buffy was justifiably upset when her great love choose faith over him

[@unnderneath]

@@queenfreddie861 Thank you! I don't understand this thought process that Faith is suddenly an angel. As much as I love her character, she did terrible things and deserved everything coming to her no matter what she's been through. Living a tough life shouldn't be an excuse or a reason to justify your awful actions.

[@Kay2be2mr]

He makes a great point. It never made sense how a slayer is not paid by the council!

[@anerindreams92]

I was someone who only watched Angel for a time. I did not see Angel and Buffy in the correct order. I stumbled upon Angel season 3 on tv, then watched the entire show before moving to Buffy, which subsequently became my obsession for a couple of months. But Sanctuary was the first episode I saw Buffy in, when I did not know who she was yet. The way she interacted with Angel and Faith, everything that happened spoke of so much history and drama. And my 16 year-old self was just very confused why the blond girl was so outraged that the man she just punched twice punched her back. So in conclusion, no I did not have an accurate representation of Buffy's character.

[@RantQueenz]

Lol wangel XD

[@GothamKnight84661]

I see what you did there!

[@Trekkie46]

Underrated relationship right there.

[@The810kid]

Gusley is better

[@RantQueenz]

@@The810kid I like both. XD

[@markfudge5642]

I understand Buffy's mindset in this episode, remember she is still a teenager, still a little bratty at times. After her hurt with the ending with Angel, quickly followed by the psychological abuse after her dalliance with Parker and rounded off by finding that Riley had slept with Faith, Well I think maybe she would be feeling a little bit defensive at that moment. Because Buffy is our hero we expect better from her, but isn't a true hero someone who stands up even when the walls are crumbling around them. No hero is worth my time if they are untouchable, thats why superman sucks and batman is so engaging as a character.

[@Anjalena]

15:51 -- Sponsored by Angel; Becomes a brooder. I agree with your analytics of this episode. I knew I always had mild problems with it but never really knew why. Your ability to see the things you do causes me to make the choice to examine and re-examine my life and myself and that is always a good thing. Thank you.

[@MichelleZB]

"That's what I do here, and you're not a part of it," seems to me to be the writers trying to tell us that they don't want to keep doing these crossovers... that Angel is its own show. That's what I Will Remember You seems to me to be about, too--that Angel chose his mission to fight evil and be a hero over Buffy. They're separating them in this first season, and I think it works.

[@Alejandro333777]

Never thought of it that way kinda makes it better that they didn’t have a crossover afterwards I think till willow came to Angel in season 4 I think

[@calsh14]

@@Alejandro333777 well they had two other crossovers 1. When Harmony shows up and Clrdy calls Willow 2. Willow shows up at the end of Season 2 to tell the gang about Buffy

[@lenzino7383]

@@Alejandro333777 Also, Angel comes to visit Buffy and comfort her after her mom's funeral.

[@KRSsven]

I disagree about Buffy. It’s all completely in character for her. She HATES Faith with a fiery passion by this point. I fail to see how her coming in and making massive assumptions is out of character for her. She’s always been capable of being bratty (see any early S2 episode, and acted the same in the pre-human times with Angel in ‘I will remember you’. There’s always insane drama surrounding these two. It really doesn’t backpedal ANYTHING about these characters - and I LOVE when Angel lays it down to Buffy. Absolutely loved her sanctimonious attitude being dropped down a peg because what is it Buffy has always done? Treated Sunnydale as her turf, what she says goes. Angel is completely right to say ‘back off, I’m not who I was, this is my town and we’re doing things MY way.’ Even then, ‘Faith wins again’ is a silly, bratty, Buffy-esque thing to say. Totally and completely in character. The rooftop scene with Faith is also 100% in character for Buffy. Same old ‘’I gave you everything and you threw it back in my face’’ nonsense that Willow always spouts whenever Faith comes up. Buffy didn’t give Faith anything tangible except sympathy and some - in very early S3 episodes - attempts at friendship.

[@smpanther]

I actually disagree with you on the pacing of this episode. Buffy isn't out of character and the action IS part of the reset of the previous episode. Life doesn't stop just because you need a break. Life doesn't stop. This episode reflects it

[@michaeldeboer9940]

I like that Faith decided to turn herself in offscreen while all the Bangel continuity went on. She got herself out of that mess, saw what she had caused and decided enough is enough. She made that choice. Without their incentive. Out of her own heart. They didn’t push or threaten or ask her. She chose to take herself out of the equation. And I like that after I Will Remember You, Buffy is portrayed as kind of a bitch this episode. She’s angry, and rightfully so, blinded by rage; her philosophy of ending evil in direct opposition to Angel’s philosophy. He caused way more evil than Faith did and is way more of a monster. Yet she lets him off the hook. This episode finally had the exes argue. Buffy isn’t a saint. She always helped Angel out of self-interest in a way. Now he stood directly between her and her interests.

[@askarsfan2011]

This was a very difficult episode because Buffy and Angel are heroes of this universe, while Faith is a supporting character who represents pieces of them both. Unfortunately, she gets lost in the struggle between Buffy and Angel to make their final separation.

[@JHollowayNetwork]

and then "Sanctuary" was followed by Buffy's "The Yoko Factor" (4x20) which sets up "Primeval" (4x21) as one of the crossover events. (the conversation between Xander & Cordelia is one of the missed opportunities). The Yoko Factor one features the fight scene between Riley (Buffy's new boyfriend) and Angel.

[@zilaalapsablue7228]

I wanna say that I adore your buffy related videos, they are so in depth and I adore the detail you always put into making these good. Your jokes are oddly ambithios at times which I apriciate, and your humor is overall relly good. I also enjoy your personality alot, you saund professional but also fun. I love your style and hope you will do great in the future. These videos have shown me so much stuff I missed and I will be forever thankful to you for that. You are amezing. Also 7:10 if this is serious then- HOLY FUCK I THOUGH I WAS THE ONLY ONE THANK YOU FOR VALIDATING ME.

[@augustca1984]

Hi! I'm so glad I've found this channel! Buffy and Angel are television shows that are very near and dear to me. I fortunately found friends back then that were inspired by them the same and we would often spend hours discussing and analyzing the shows charchters and writing. Those friends and I eventually drifted apart and those long discussions became all but faded memories until I found this channel. I love your analytical narratives and thoughts on the show. It takes me back to the better days. Thank you for what you do is what I'm trying to say.

[@guyr3618]

So... 'Sanctuary' is 'Civil War'. Angel is Cap. Faith is Bucky. Buffy is Tony. Wesley is Black Widow. Kate is Black Panther. The Watchers are Ross. Wolfram & Hart are Zemo?

[@me1735]

I don't care, she killed my mom

[@guyr3618]

@@hakasims #Foyce? #Jaith?

[@mutantanemone]

Beautiful. 😂

[@walt8899]

Accurate

[@windowsVD]

@@hakasims I think he was referring to Former General Ross(William Hurt's character) who first appeared as a villain in The Incredible Hulk. Ross(William Hurt) was the one was trying to force The Avengers into signing the Accords and wanted to hunt down Bucky so it would make more sense that he would represent the Watcher's Council while Ross(Martin Freeman) acted as more of a neutral force in the film.

[@MakeItSo-ThisIsME]

Another great video on what was needed and what happened in Angel and Buffy. I really enjoy your insight on what & how a story/screenplay should be. Looking back on both Angel & Buffy, I really think there should have been a four-episode arc of Faith's redemption on Angel. So when Faith returns later in the series, there's not a piece of who she is now missing. Well in my opinion anyways; though having her back and then going onto Buffy worked out well in the end. I can't wait till you get to those seasons. Anyhow, keep'em coming, you have such a cool channel!

[@mossomness]

Is #Wangel going to be a recurring bit? Because, yes please!

[@pablogcano81]

It is the thinking person´s spangel

[@Smil7001]

Spangel is cannon

[@chissstardestroyer]

Well, that's one interesting readout of exactly how Faith screwed Buffy over so completely; I've heard rumors of that being what she did, but I know she did that to Riley, however, this has a most interesting take on how/if she did that to Buffy as well.

[@chissstardestroyer]

@@ronaldfasshauer4390 That may be so, but it doesn't compute to this situation being described here.

[@MetalMusicMan]

It could have been done a little better but overall I thought their portrayal of Buffy made sense, she isn't capable of forgiving Faith the way Angel is (which is understandable on both sides based on what they both have been through). Buffy also works as an element to illustrate how hard Faith's path will be, she can't expect people to forgive her (especially someone like Buffy who she has wronged so completely).

[@BasicOtter]

Buffy was pissed, and rightfully so. And this is Angel’s show, not Buffy’s, so it makes sense that the show will ultimately frame the drama for us to be on Angel’s side on this.

[@Frasmoticful]

The line that really stuck out to me was Buffy saying that she deserved vengeance. The last episode with both Buffy and Angel was Pangs, which concluded that the Native American spirit did not deserve vengeance for having all of his people slaughtered, and that his vengeance was justification for Buffy killing him. So Buffy thinks that she is more deserving of vengeance than the Chumash spirit? Of course, Buffy didn't actually kill Faith, so I'm not saying they're as bad as each other, but it's odd that her desire for revenge is never addressed, considering the closeness of the episodes

[@Xehanort10]

6:40 That was stupid "I hit you once Angel and I was going to hit you again but you're a monster for hitting me."

[@shayla106]

Not because he hit her,because he hit her for faith. This isn’t the 1st time they hit each other.

[@beniceovna8762]

I'm on Buffy's side here, if my ex (who claimed he loves me and only reason he's leaving me is for my good) was cuddling with woman who hurt me and my loved ones, I'd be even more mad. Victim's wish of revenge is more important than aggressor's wish for ~atonement~

[@Northfan42]

I would love to hear you talk more about Wesley's last line in this. After all he suffered at Faith's hands and after his immense anger at Angel for not punishing her over that, he says he hopes she is strong enough to make it through her next chapter in life AND HE MEANS IT. The empathy and sincerity of his words about Faith here are in such stark contrast with his attitude at the beginning of the episode that I feel they beg for more exploration.

[@margaridabaptista3712]

All the great parallels and potential power between Angel and Faith, plus taking into account Faith's role in Angel S4, not to mention the Angel + Faith comics, really makes me wonder what it would have been like for Faith to have been a main character on Angel. I get that giving herself up to the police to atone for her actual crimes is the right choice, but I can't help but wonder the lengths we could've gotten to if this episode had been extended, if Angel had really been Faith's sponsor, helping her through her own journey of redemption. She'd fit in well with "Team Atonement", and would probably bring out interesting dynamics within the team, especially with all the conflict between her and Wesley, and having a Slayer on their team might give them a real power upgrade

[@LucyLynette]

I think the problem with this episode comes down to the fact that Faith isn't meant to be a focal point character in it. She's mostly relegated to plot device. This episode isn't about Faith. It's about Angel expressing his mission statement for the series. His scenes with Buffy are a continuation of their unresolved issues, of course. But they're also about him seeking definition for himself and the show he's leading, with the lead of the parent series there as a counterpoint. Even Kate appears to only be thrown in to heighten the Sunnydale vs. LA contrast. It's not about Faith. It's about Wes making the decision between returning to what he knows (despite being an infamous failure at it) and choosing to embrace Angel's redemptive mission. Not a single one of Wes' scenes in Sanctuary are about Faith. They're about him. Faith and the Council goon squad are mostly symbols of what Wes knows and used to embrace. This episode is a pivotal moment for him, as he goes from newbie hanger-on to someone leaping fully into the unknown with his new companions. The first tentative steps were in Graduation Day and in his AtS episodes leading up to this. But this is the official leap, the final break from his training and old beliefs. It's not about Faith. I get that it's season one, and this is how it goes on most good series. The guest stars and story of the episode certainly should serve mostly as vehicles to teach the audience more about the main cast, to build understanding and a relationship between character and audience. But (and it's a big but) this isn't just any first season. It's a spin-off, one where the three main and the two major guest characters are all from the parent series. The story itself is a direct continuation from a story on the parent series. It's not a story or situation designed for new audiences, so it shouldn't have been written as a "season 1 main cast character development" episode. But it was. And that's the failure of it. This was one of those eps where the crossover audience should have been considered above the newbie audience. It wasn't. This episode is about Angel and Wes. It should have been about Faith. It wasn't.

[@WendelChavesNightingale]

I disagree completely. Buffy had EVERY reason to be extremely pissed and to decide Faith's destiny. Angel decided to give her a chance on a whim and his choice could easily have resulted in multiple deaths.

[@WillowfromBuffy]

I think it is easy to paint Buffy as the bad guy, but what if Angel's confidence was misplaced? What if Faith killed all the watchers and cut a swath through the policemen hunting her? That being said, for new fans of Ats who hadn't seen BtVS, Buffy must have looked like this annoying ex girlfriend who only shows up to yell and disrupt the show.

[@sydneyh5352]

Just like Five by Five, you nailed this and every thought I had about the episode. I even mourn for the things we couldn't see in this episode via Faith's redemption. They should have had a whole episode in between Five by Five and Sanctuary so that there was more time to dig into Faith's arc.

[@kimberlyterasaki4843]

I feel like a lot of issues with this episode stem from the feeling that they were intentionally trying to drive a wedge between Buffy and Angel to prevent more crossovers between the two shows.

[@babs3241]

Yeah, there are moments in both shows where we see the heavy hand from the writers' room too clearly (in Buffy, to my mind, it's most of season 6), and this is a good example of it, though it had some great moments.

[@Cleapatra25]

Also Buffy really disappointed me this episode. I thpught that at the end of "WHO ARE YOU" Buffy understood what Faith was going through judging off of her facial expression. But here it did not seem that any of that reflection was present. Buffy was just hateful and vengeful. And yes what Faith did was atrocious but there is some disconnect there.

[@LauraM-kr9wv]

Buffy wasn't very well-written in this episode, considering she was always the one who wanted to save Faith the most (and like you said, she clearly felt Faith's pain at the end of Who Are You) but I think the writers needed her to be the bad guy in this scenario, so they wrote her differently. But it's not really fair for her character.

[@Cleapatra25]

@@LauraM-kr9wv I agree and she could have been antagonistic but they could have been more tasteful about it. It just seemed really lazy to do that to her. They did something similar between her and Faith on season 7.

[@Cleapatra25]

@Lakshmi Vesper I dont question that. I completely understand the anger my issue it seemed like she understood Faith better at the end of "Who are you" but all that was thrown out the window in this episode.

[@KNadoli]

Just because Buffy may have learnt to understand Faith doesn't mean she would immediately forget what Faith did to her and Riley

[@Cleapatra25]

Once again I have no problem with her anger. But she was certainly one of the villains this episode which made her out of character in my opinion.

[@quinnsinclair7028]

I really hated that punch scene. On a metaphorical level it’s a girl getting hit by her ex boyfriend who she still cares deeply for so of course outrage and hurt are understandable but on a more literal level Buffy is a lot stronger than Angel and she doesn’t just hit him once but goes in for the attack until he throws one blow to stop her. You can’t really shoot a scene with a superhero and deliver the reaction of an ordinary citizen, the two don’t fit together properly. She’s either the damsel victimized by a shot from her ex boyfriend or she’s a powerhouse capable of slaying eight vampires in combat, she can’t be both in the same scene.

[@paulgibson7353]

Whether she is superpowered or not or he is a vampire or a human, as a society we are brought up to view a man hitting a woman as far more abhorrent than the other way round. this is actually anti-equality thinking but its so deeply ingrained into our collective psyche it still persists now

[@quinnsinclair7028]

paul gibson It was very clear cut self defence but the way it is framed you’d think it was a one sided assault. That’s especially bad cause Buffy was designed to break those kinds of stereotypes.

[@ApolloXL5]

I always saw Five by Five and Sanctuary as a two parter and not how it is described here.

[@GameKeeper28]

"In point of fact I've confronted more evil slayed more demons - in short, done more good while working with Angel than I ever did while in the Council's employ." Westley finally refuses the council and knows his place is fighting along side Angel.

[@dianabeairsto]

Love your videos!! Thanks for making these

[@mindyp51a]

Buffy punching Faith--projection of anger, Ian? Anger..anger at Faith over Riley and the switcheroo, anger at Riley for not recognizing that it was Faith, not herself, anger at Angel for leaving her, anger over Angel making and having a life for himself in Los Angeles that, from where Buffy stands, looks pretty good, anger at Angel for coming to Sunnydale and not letting her know, anger for what she sees as everyone being sorry for Faith, but no one expressing being sorry for Buffy for all that she's been through recently, and even anger at herself for not being able to deal with any of it better... Yeah, Buffy is a pretty wound-up person right now. And who hasn't lashed out in situations like this? Again, if I'm remembering my psychology right now (both from my college courses and my own therapy sessions), it's called PROJECTION.

[@PassionoftheNerd]

Fair enough. As I said, I think her REACTION is grounded in character and justified. It's her total lack of self-awareness or flexibility that felt totally off to me. She is the judge and the general, yes. But she always consults and weighs the feedback from the people around her (to this point - Season 7 switches that up.)

[@PassionoftheNerd]

Also projection explains the double face punch, but the weird, "How dare you?!?" expression after still feels silly and unselfaware.

[@shayla106]

@@PassionoftheNerd I think that’s because he punched her for Faith, not that he punched her at all.

[@davewolf6256]

When I watched the episode, I thought the Angel-Buffy thing was good for the reason that it was a cathartic end to the #BAngel romance -- that still of outlives its welcome throughout Angel Ssn2-Ssn5. But there is a touch of "unreasonable female" stereotyping that permeates this episode's Buffy. Beyond that, there's too much to say about how Angel and Buffy are handled in this episode. I get the sense a lot of writers -- and fans -- were too attached to their romance at the time (like teenagers who are too clingy to move on). That may explain the decision to make Angel-Buffy, instead of Angel-Faith, the emotional center of the episode. It would also explain why Joss Whedon ok'd portraying Buffy this way -- almost like he's sticking it to the more annoying fans. Wouldn't be the only time they did that in Angel: "You love her that much? Start a website."

[@NarniaxHarryPotter]

I had to pause and say THANK YOU for voicing everything that seemed to be bugging me about this episode without me actually grasping it completely! Buffy just doesn't feel like Buffy- I always kinda thought it just felt weird to see her interact with the new group dynamic, but apparently, it wasn't just me who disliked this episode's Buffy while I'm usually a pretty big fan of hers. She just reads sort of unreasonable. PS. I love how Faith apparently had a second to reapply her lipgloss between takes while running up to the roof

[@katiem2347]

"The watcher's are stupid" The way you said that line was great. Made me laugh.

[@oneslikeme]

OMG thank you for bringing up the living expenses for Buffy. That ENTIRE thing has never made sense to me. Why pay Giles to be a Watcher, but not pay the slayer when she literally cannot hold a job doing anything else?

[@Meg_intheclouds]

Omg same. Also why does a whole council of Middle Aged men control a 16 year old girl anyway. I get she needs a guide but still. I mean it’s probs a metaphor about responsibility and they represent the restricting adult force. Buffy goes against them and leaves the council taking on full responsibility for the slayer role without the control of the council. Like they represent how we are restricted by people older than us who set the rules and precedents when trying to grow up.

[@animatedpsychologist]

I saw Angel before Buffy, and I can tell you, no. No, I despised Buffy and hated the drama and had no idea why she was getting in the way. (Actually, I saw the Illyria episodes of Angel Season 5 before anything else and, boy, that was backwards.)

[@ashleighsamantha891]

Patiently waiting. 😊

[@queenfreddie861]

I honestly think buffys reaction were justified. Because, faith tried to seduce angel in season 3 and she slept with Riley, which we know buffy felt insecure about, and even later faith flirts with spike. And, in the episode before in buffy, faith Literally stole buffys body and sent buffy off to her death, and basically raped buffy. And, buffy always tried to help faith. Plus, angel is buffy great love, it seemed like he didn’t even care what faith did to her in who are you, and that would of obviously hurt her. She would of thought he would trust her. I also think we see a difference between spike and angel here as, angel doesn’t care Faith sent Buffy of to die with the counsel and when faith comes back in season 7 spike tells buffy ‘say the word and I’ll kill her’. I do dislike how the episode portrays buffy, she is the most forgive, non-judging scooby

[@flyingbeagle6371]

I'm kind of disappointed we never got that Faith spinoff. For me it would have done wonders to complete and evolve her character arc. I wasn't too satisfied with Faith returning to Buffy season 7 as while I loved her return in season 4 Angel (making a rather subpar season into something quite watchable again) I never got that with her ending in Buffy and since that's the last time we see her it makes me all the more wish we got more from her. I like to imagine that if she got that spinoff Wesley may have joined her on it, now taking on again his watcher duties now that he had matured and evolved as a character too. I got the feeling the two, when originally paired together in season 3 Buffy, hadn't gone through the development where they could work together yet but after how well and badass they briefly worked together in season 4 Angel, it felt only natural for their story to be heading that way.

[@jaycievictory8461]

THANK YOU! That Bangel scene never worked for me, and you've highlighted why. It wasn't a fair portrayal of Buffys character, or their history. That ending, with Faith's frenetic, secretly self-hating dancing juxtaposed with the bittersweetness of her finding her quiet peace in a jail cell....just beautiful. And your remark that you can never think yourself into letting go of someone, that's just holding the ball tighter... So profound, and as is often the case with your remarks, way too resonant.

[@thepunkmuppet]

#wangel indeed 😔 i mean it is funny as a joke but also i genuinely see it, and wouldn’t be opposed to it - their relationship is SO interesting throughout all the seasons, and they retain a connection that’s a joy to watch even when their relationship is… strained (understatement of the century)

[@JakeMcClake2]

I agree with this narrator that Buffy was written badly, and out of character in this story. Additionally, Angel was written to portray the only selfless hero in this story, when in fact they are both selfless heroes. Also, it is hard to follow such a dramatic story as Five By Five, but the ending of this story, where Faith turns herself in, does it, well. The rest of the story, was really not needed, at all. Basically, they could have added that ending on to the Five By Five episode, and left be the story of Five By Five.

[@justphil84]

Superb review.

[@justinamerican8200]

It's kind of a bummer they didn't do more with Faith's character. For instance, given how out of the game the Watcher's Council is at this point, I would think they'd straight up assassinate Faith. She dies, a new Slayer activates. Having Faith be willing to turn herself in but be unable to for fear of making herself too easy a target for the Watchers, and the fallout and possible division of the Council over this action; there are a lot of possibilities.

[@talynstarburst2l2l2l]

If only we got that Faith spin-off series.. so many possibilities that could have happened 😕

[@25nomind]

One of the main things I don’t like about Faith’s redemption arc here is that it portrays her too much as a victim [thought that aspect is there in her story], there is a LOT more interesting aspects to her character that could have been explored. For example her inability or unwillingness to take and value other people’s perspectives which is connected to her lack of compassion for others and how that’s connected to her lack of compassion for herself. Faith was such an interesting character in Buffy that never got a great redemption arc [just a quick mediocre one in my opinion]. Maybe if they had done her spin off show it would have happened. I love your videos, but you’re way too quick to both have Faith redeemed in this and the last episode, and have people [Wes and Buffy] find her redeemable. She hasn't actually done anything to redeem herself or even try to right her wrongs, she’s just turned herself in for a murder [her first act of owning a choice and not acting in “bad faith”] and again given herself over to another authority figure [Angel] as she did with her second watcher and the mayor. She has a long way to go. Your understandable[even admirable] empathy for Faith, is making you overlook the consequences of her choices, consequences more than a jail sentence, and consequences that aren’t finished happening INSIDE and outside her. I think I get where you and apparently everyone in this comment section is coming from, I think it’s connected to the flaw in this arc thought, which plays her redemption as human victim not her redemption as a human monster and all the complexities that would entail. They couldn’t just give her soul back since she’s had that all along, but they played it thematically very similar to Angel’s arc which shouldn’t fit hers in my opinion. Buffy lashing out at Angel makes sense, she feels betrayed by him and it’s the only way she can hurt him. People wanting Buffy to share Angel’s perspective is ridiculous. The fact she helped Faith at all this episode is pretty surprising/incredible.

[@25nomind]

When I was young I really liked Faith. Being older now, I find her less sympathetic: maybe having meet and dealt with actual violent people who see themselves as the victim, are self-destructive and rarely think about others has made this arc seem childishly romantic and simplistic to me.

[@jessicakelly4314]

I agree that Buffy doesn't act like herself in this episode. Buffy shows a capacity for forgiveness and a flexibility(which is questioned by Riley later in season 4) which is totally removed in this episode. It just seemed like a way to stop her coming back to the show.

[@zenithquasar9623]

That ‘how dare you!?’ Is not about the punch, it is about Angel’s defence of Faith.

[@vladanmilovanovic4343]

Best youtube channel ever!

[@Anjalena]

"You can't clean a slate by moving or running..." (4:42) "You ever try to clean an actual slate? You always see what was on it before."

[@canadiankazz]

Nice edit at the end there with the dancing.

[@patrickadams7120]

At some point of the process of writing the season arc Joss must have known that in order for Angel to come out of the shadows of Buffy and be it's own show then there had to be a cut off point,for me this was the episode

[@raullukebenitez7033]

I've been waiting patiently 😁

[@ElforTheLandstander]

Alright. Now the wait for Epiphany begins.

[@jamescarson6823]

Just stumbled across PoTN yesterday and subscribed today because I find the analysis spot on. Except for this one. Yes, everything in the episode seemed off and weird, especially Buffy. But I remember seeing this when it aired and realized (when I saw Buffy and how she was acting) that this episode was how Faith was seeing things and playing things out in her own head. It's her inner thinking and how she sees these people. It completely makes sense according to the spot on analysis of Five by Five, the previous episode. "Sanctuary" is a holy place, a temple, a place to atone. A soul, perhaps? The way Faith sees Buffy in this episode is the way Faith sees herself reacting if she was in the same situation, with the violence. Yet then switches to her disdain for Buffy's capacity to love with her view of Buffy's "How dare you?" look when Angel hits her back. (Would he really?) The ego and the id facing each other. So if you watch this episode as something Faith is playing out in her own head, things make more sense. Just my take.

[@nathandorsey9145]

I have a theory that the Watchers council IS required to pay for a slayers expenses but only after they turn 18. I think the trial they have to go through when they turn 18 is an attempt to keep the slayer as young as possible and if the slayer IS 18 or older to make sure they are “worth” their salary.

[@aravisthetarkheena]

I always really loved this episode, even if it was rushed - but that may just have been because I saw Angel before saw buffy and I thought Angel got some really great moments. In hindsight I do wish they'd gotten rid of the "council retrieval" subplot but all things considered, I will always go back to this one in rewatches

[@mollylynch918]

OK not to defend her hitting angel, but I thought her reaction of shock when he hit back was because he was defending Faith, not because he hit her, but he hit her in defense of Faith. So to her right now, he is prioritizing Faith over their relationship. She doesn't see him being sympathetic to her in terms of what Faith just put her through, she only is seeing him protect Faith and seems to not care about what she did to Buffy. I do really like the scenes between Buffy and Faith though, especially when she says "I gave you every chance..." It's that much more painful because she tried to help Faith so many times, even after Season 3, just to have it thrown in her face. Angel might understand redemption in dealing with Faith but Buffy is the only one that knows what it is to be slayer and what that responsibility/burden means.

[@dadriamcgregor8346]

so seeing as how Riley and Giles didn't realize Buffy was in Faith's Body and vice versa ... Had Faith gone to LA in Buffys body how long would it have taken Angel to know it wasn't Buffy ? 😂😂😂

[@isaacortiz4617]

I mean I think Angel would have sensed it being a vampire and all.

[@chazz30000]

The little Watcher Council comment is so much on point. The Council is said to have enormous resources and to possess considerable political power around the world. Yet, Buffy has to worry about bully headmasters, money in her adult years and occasionally the police. I think the least that should happen once she is identified as a Slayer is a trust fund in her name and an army of lawyers suing everyone even looking wrong at her. Not to mention that Buffy sits all the time in Sunnydale, I know its a Hellmouth and as such a hot spot for demon activity but there must be other places and crises to attend to from time to time, when the Hellmouth is in an inactive phase yet no private jet to fly her to other parts of the world where she might be needed. Also, the fact that for the first time in history the Watcher Council had two Slayers and kept them both on the same continent? Kendra should have been sending off to Europe the moment she awoke, the same with Faith, I mean there is another Hellmouth just over in Cleveland, Ohio. Also, some study into the "a 30-second cardiac arrest counts as death that activates the next slayer" loophole should have happened. They already put them in unnecessary mortal danger when they turn 18, how about switching the fight with a mad vampire for a controlled cardiac arrest to activate the next Slayer?