Sandpaper On A Cymbal? - Timothy Roberts

[@tmappe]

Really love hearing how the sound changes after resting - crazy improvement

[@rsilvers129]

It doesn’t.

[@billmint8122]

@@rsilvers129 Cope

[@PlasticHeartSurgery]

It's okay he's a drummer and also deaf@@billmint8122

[@shoya777]

It looks like one of those foundry reserves and sounds amazing. All of the versions of it still has its place in jazz. Lovely work!

[@nxyuu]

I thought it looked a bit like a k constantinople after the sandpaper pass. really did end up looking like a foundry reserve

[@val_val_]

Wooah, the changes after the resting are remarkable. I also really liked the unlathed turk.

[@ZebFernandezzz]

As a Turk it sounds beautiful!! Lovely hammering 🤗

[@ZebFernandezzz]

10/10 crash. 👏 👏 👏

[@dreadedscarpia2066]

All of the stages, really, are quite lovely…each has its own unique character. I’m hard-pressed to land on a preference!

[@joc8]

The unworked version sounds like my 19" Bosphorus Black Pearl ride, which is too thin, hence too much wash for my liking. I replaced it with a Meinl 20" Pure Vintage, which is alot heavier, with great stick definition. I now use the Black Pearl as a crash with a rattler attached, so essentially I gained another dark crash. It's amazing the change in sound after resting the worked cymbal. Great job, Timothy!

[@ReverieDrumCo]

Very nice! I bet that's a good combo!

[@Vitor.Portugal]

In my opinion the cymbal sounded more mature after the sanding process, it kept a nice balanced amount of sustain with a little cutting ring shimmer. Overall, I am very pleased with all the contents you are developing.

[@ReverieDrumCo]

Thanks!

[@krzysztofwaclawski9002]

Sounded amazing to start with

[@alanpeterson4205]

Fantastic to see those changes and concepts; excellent work and craft!

[@StuartJrBarrett]

Sounds awesome

[@doublea7054]

Nice work man. I was surprised at how much i liked the full crust version.

[@MusicandTractors]

Really love the sound after the sanded part! ❤ not that the others samples sounded bad.

[@thomastornroos7393]

Great work!! Sounds fantastic 🔥🔥🔥

[@mattperko2425]

All interesting and nice versions, but I actually liked the sanded only version. Just enough wash yet a tight stick definition. I wonder if this is what Bosphorus is doing with their SW sand washed cymbals.

[@seppoinnanen5577]

As a turk cymbal lover my heart bled a little when you started sanding and lathing that gorgeous piece. But the finished cymbal didn't sound bad either, just different. That stage might have brought up some yelling frequencies that I'm not after myself.

[@stevenmayhew3944]

I understand that cymbals are not exactly "brass" or "bronze". They have a proprietary third ingredient metallic element which has never been divulged in the history of cymbal manufacturing, and it is that third ingredient which gives it the characteristic sound of a cymbal.

[@DrMackSplackem]

Interesting. My understanding is that 'bronze', while nominally a two phase alloy of copper and tin, is nearly if not always cast with trace amounts of other elements. This is true not just for cymbals, though, and owes more to practical concerns, both in the casting process itself, and the finished alloy's eventual applications. Phosphor, lithium, zinc and nickel are some common trace additives used in bronze casts (phosphor is particularly desirable for industrial parts like bushings, for instance). Much hay has been made about secret cymbal ingredients/family recipes, etc, but I'm fairly skeptical about trace additives in regards to desirable sonic qualities specifically because (marketing claims aside, it is bronze itself that's most remarkable. There's just something about bell bronze making it uniquely suited to musical applications. This is already too long but I have a case in point if you got this far. There are cymbals made from other alloys which make useful sounds, even rapturous sounds when struck with a stick. However, while these often make for great effects cymbals, I have yet to hear any nickel-silver or stainless steel cymbal that gets anywhere near the complexity, versatility or dynamic in its character afforded by an expertly worked bronze casting. Just my 2 cents, but if you work enough with bronze, you will come to see it as extremely special. At times one gets the feeling that there is (lacking a better term) a life force at work in the metal, and cymbalsmithing is the art of guiding that dynamism special to copper and tin alloys towards a musically useful goal. It's why I often think of cymbal making as the real alchemy.

[@ReverieDrumCo]

The makeup of cymbal bronze is 80/20, copper and tin w/ trace elements either added by the redsmith or as a consequence of the method of creating the alloy (coal fired, wood burning, or gas). There's arguments as to whether or not this has a drastic effect on the sound. I would say it has an effect, but the biggest factor in the sound is how the blank is formed into a finished cymbal by the cymbalsmith.

[@dustyclamper56]

Thanks for the demo man it was great. 👍

[@dustinmarco7268]

Great content again. As usual!!!!

[@Cowdog1]

The rested version sounded sweet.

[@offshoretomorrow3346]

That semi-lathed dappled finish is exquisite. ❤ How symmetrical is weight on a good cymbal? I have one that rotates on the stand because of a heavy point.

[@ReverieDrumCo]

That's pretty common actually. Ideally a cymbal will have even weight distribution, but I find just about every cymbal has a way it wants to lean (which would indicate it's uneven).

[@rongeremy6970]

Sounds great 👍

[@MS-ui9td]

Very nice.

[@Michael127gerard]

Ever try Oven cleaner on a cymbal ? particularly a Turk type cymbal. It removes all the oxidation leaving just the cleaned bronze underneath. Deffo beings out the high frequency's more. I'm tempted to try it on a Bos black pearl.

[@ReverieDrumCo]

No, but i'll definitely have to try that! Thanks for the tip!

[@brent3760]

Whew that is nice!!!

[@Blake_Steen]

So cool dude.

[@sherpajones]

This is really cool. Have you ever thought of sandblasting it while it is spinning on the lathe?

[@ReverieDrumCo]

Yeah! I don't have a sandblaster but I'd love to experiment with that at some point.

[@johnrobertcorney]

Tim you’ve really outdone yourself. You could tell even before it rested it was going to be a deep and lush wash with a sprinkle of shimmer. What grit paper(s) did you use? It reminds me of those old buttery Istanbul pre splits but with a more modern and usable weight. Can’t wait for next week’s video!

[@ReverieDrumCo]

Thanks John! I use between 80 and 120 grit typically. Then I finish off with a fine grit, abrasive pad to smooth it out.

[@johnrobertcorney]

Thanks Amigo!

[@michaelpaoli3962]

Can I have that cymbal. Can I have all of your cymbals.

[@rsilvers129]

Need myth busters. It is unlikely that a cymbal changes sound after a day, week, or months. Yes if it is still hot, but once it is room temp, resting it won’t make a difference. Could test it by having a robot arm strike it the same way each time and record it after it reaches room temp, and then a week later. It will be the same. The maker perceives it as having changed because they rested.

[@ReverieDrumCo]

Did you listen to the "rested" clip? It sounds significantly different than it did post the work. I do this as my full time job and I promise you resting makes a huge difference. The alloy is really amazing in that way. It's malleable and has very interesting properties when "cold-formed" by hammering and lathing.

[@DrMackSplackem]

If it takes a double-blind randomized A/B listening test to convince you, it could be because you've never discovered it by accident.

[@p.diddle]

I used to be a disbeliever of this as well. But after watching Timothy’s channel, I can definitely hear that resting changes the cymbal’s sound. There is remarkably more spread, sustain and shimmer to the sound. In regard to the actual physics of the matter, I am not sure. I have a hard time understanding how the metal structures can re-arrange due to resting. I’ll leave that to any metallurgists out there.

[@DrMackSplackem]

@@p.diddle I agree. It's bizarre and I know of no other example in metallurgy (though they probably exist). I mean, there is the phenomenon of work hardening, but that's pretty immediate.

[@rsilvers129]

@@ReverieDrumCo and the unrested one was already cooled?

[@ThaKillaInstinctHD]

To be honest, i prefer the post lathe, unrested sound. How would you go about getting this sound when its rested?

[@ReverieDrumCo]

There are some hammering and lathing techniques I use to create that dry sound in a rested cymbal. It usually involves using a heavier blank and more top hammering for the extra stiffness needed to get that sound.

[@harlanvale1899]

Definitely a big difference in sound quality. Question: What is your opinion about repairing a cracked cymbal? Can it be done without the repair generating too many weird artifacts to the sound?

[@ReverieDrumCo]

Yeah! I repair cymbals all the time and it can make them perfectly playable again.

[@gabrielhammersmokenmirrors3199]

I liked it best at the "sanded" stage

[@KaiOwensDrums]

What sticks do you use for the demo. It sounds like the second is SD2 boleros but not sure about the first

[@ReverieDrumCo]

The first is the AJ1 and the second is the SD2 bolero!

[@MV-ot8kr]

Your videos are cool . I wish I could be a cymbalsmith . It is . Do you have a video about how you got into this ? Fascinating . Entertaining . Informative and educational . p.s. When you're doing something or something is happening , it's not KIND OF happening . It's happening lol

[@ReverieDrumCo]

Thank you! I've been interviewed for a few podcasts where I tell my story. One is called the "drum history podcast". That episode comes out this upcoming Friday. Another is this podcast here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJKndH2meKuCatk

[@benjaminolsen8774]

looks like Meinl's foundry reserve rides lol

[@RockerBug17]

What's your process for protecting the cymbal from further oxidation post lathing?

[@ReverieDrumCo]

Sometimes I use a specialized wax that keeps the patina from developing quickly. Sometimes I want a natural patina to develop so I'll leave the surface untreated. It's all about the desired sound!

[@RockerBug17]

@@ReverieDrumCo Thanks for the info. I've been experimenting with applying wax (Minwax Paste Wax) post-cleaning. One layer seems to do well protecting against air but not so much against finger prints.

[@ReverieDrumCo]

@@RockerBug17 yeah I use paste wax for certain things. It does a fair amount of dampening to the sound which can be really effective. Try renaissance wax! It’s a micro-crystalline wax that’s super thin.

[@johnburke568]

Sanded ftw

[@HUHBAT]

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