Sands of Salzaar Isn't Good Enough - Assorted Thoughts and First Impressions

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Күн бұрын

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@thespiffingbrit 4 ай бұрын

When I first heard of this game. I got super excited and downloaded it right away. Played it for like 4 hours and realised I was not having any fun. A real shame. Just made me want to play kenshi

@colmoe 4 ай бұрын

@thespiffingbrit There's a whole genre of 'this is almost the game I want to play" and "this game reminds me of games Id rather be playing" games. Devin has covered lots of them that are -personal note- quite similar to my own preferences so it makes it much easier to say that. There's so many games out there I've acquired or seen footage of people playing, and went "this just makes me want to play Mount and Blade" or "this just makes me want to play Crusader Kings" or the worst offense of all "this game is more interesting in my head." At the end of the day video games are a time commitment. You may only have an hour a day (or less) to give to video games like I do, at which point you have to go "would I rather play a game sorta like Mount and Blade" or "would I rather play Mount and Blade with the 1212AD mod instead." Thankfully Devin never shuts the hell up about this exact problem, which is both a real problem and one invented by we picky eaters; its real because if a game did your systems better then you're competing with that and whether players are going to choose that over this, and its also real because that 'picky market' is a number relative only to the number of players. Which is sad because for every hundred derivatives that makes you not have any fun there is a gem that does. People used to say Cities Skylines was great but I hated it from the getgo. Saw a game called Workers and Resources Soviet Republic, played it, and whaddya know its an excellent game that tweaks the city builder genre in many good ways.

@saltiney8578 4 ай бұрын

Kenshi is so much damn fun I have 2500 hours and I still find new engaging things to do. I wish they were still working on it instead of kenshi 2 though cuz its blatantly unfinished. I'm quite worried kenshi 2 wont have the same feel and soul being on unreal engine the janky wild west feel kinda is important to kenshi for me.

@OffyDGG 4 ай бұрын

Perhaps once day a kenshi-like genre will emerge, and I'll get to say "I played some game that people said is like chinese Kenshi". But kenshi is such a weird and eclectic game, spilled right out of a singular vision, that it makes me think it's not gonna happen. As @saltiney8578 says, even kenshi 2 might not be able to capture the janky delight again. Kind of similar to how, for me, playing M&B bannerlord isn't as fun as playing modded variations of M&B warband. Still, looking forwarding to finding out!

@DrGuretOnizuka 4 ай бұрын

@@OffyDGG Matchless Kungfu seems like what you are looking for. The game is just full of dynamic story moments because it lets AI characters run wild in an Wuxia setting. The game is very much NOT a M&B like.

@bubbasbigblast8563 4 ай бұрын

These problems are very common in the Chinese games you find in places like Steam: you'll see a lot of similar reviews on things like Sailing Era as well, where there are all these story and gameplay elements, but they never ultimately feel cohesive or extraordinary, because there isn't really a lynchpin element despite the breadth. Take Kenshi, for example, with how it pushes you into becoming stronger by making everything want to kill you, and how each solution to that leads to new things trying to kill you, like taxes. That's fun, because not dying is fun, since outright dying is also surprisingly rare, so even taking a stance on taxes leads into the core element of not wanting to end up in a death spiral. But what if Kenshi had a complex alchemy system, and a dating simulator, and customizable trade caravans that utilize wind power? Those might sound like things you might want, but if they don't end up feeding into the death spiral system, then they cause more harm than good.

@OffyDGG 4 ай бұрын

That's a good point. It sounds like this game is more about just being overpowered for the sake of it, probably not so much about making a game that keeps it engaging along the way. Some kind of 'instant gratification' philosophy applied to an experience that is supposed to last a long time, so it doesn't quite work out. Now you got me wondering how a dating simulator could be integrated into Kenshi, and this is surely a road to ruin...

@williamking331 4 ай бұрын

You know what? All those things would fit well. They, in their own unique way, add to the "IM GOING TO KILL YOU!"

@Erroratu 4 ай бұрын

Offy if you ever have nothing better to do and want to try a super early 2D Mount and Blade-like, I really recommend Feudalism on the flash engine, especially Feudalism II. It's very limited but still stupid fun.

@cathulionetharn5139 4 ай бұрын

feudalism1 eenchants were pretty dope, compared to 2

@missingmochigumanofficial 4 ай бұрын

Holy crap. Core memory unlocked!

@OffyDGG 4 ай бұрын

Wow, I had never heard of that, but just played 30 seconds of feudalism II and yeah, it's mount and blade. It even has welsh place names in one corner, which is a massive plus. Very good shout!

@colmoe 4 ай бұрын

@@OffyDGGI played Feudalism I and II as a kid and found Warband after For many many years I thought they were developed by the same people. Don't touch Feudalism III.

@taiho5233 4 ай бұрын

always looking forward to your content!

@teratokomi8731 3 ай бұрын

They added a talent you can learn that alows you to do autobattles. You can also change your troop stance in the party screen, but its limited to Attack/Defend/Follow.

@karakaaa3371 4 ай бұрын

I wonder why sometimes games are just fun despite being janky, yet in this case it isn't. I feel like the M&B formula isn't actually good. I realized that I enjoyed M&B when I was fighting the battles, but the process of recruiting and leveling troops and managing companions was kind of just a chore. Once I got to the point where I could autopilot battles, the game got very boring for me.

@saltiney8578 4 ай бұрын

Try Prophesy of Pendor mod thats how I got 1000 more hours out of mount and blade after having 800 in vanilla

@fungisrock8955 4 ай бұрын

I think sometimes there's certain itches that can be scratched by only one or two games out there, and often those games tend to be lacking in other appeals. Mount and Blade for example, to you everything besides combat is tedious but the combat system is so unique that you play the game specifically for that despite your other gripes. Some games just do things that no others do, and might be boring, janky, or old but that one or two things they do differently make them appealing, even if even those features aren't fleshed out fully.

@03Ghost03 4 ай бұрын

what does M&B mean?

@Gazofrenico615 4 ай бұрын

@@03Ghost03 mount and blade

@Jorendo 4 ай бұрын

This game has been on my wishlist for many years. Even on discounts I never bought it, something kept holding me back but I couldn't think of what, as it always seemed interesting. Guess this video described it very well. Good job!

@SalmonCaramel 4 ай бұрын

OffyD bringing us another banger that crushes the hopes and dreams of our favorite games. Keep up the splendid work!

@mahu1877 4 ай бұрын

i never played any of the mount and blade games and Sands was my introduction to the formula, and i had a decent time with it despite all the jank. although, this is probably only because of blind luck - because i didn't pick starting tutorial character, but some dude who starts with his own faction, settlement and own set of mechanics, which basically skips entirety of the early game. (also, the whip woman may or may not have been a factor. i refuse to elaborate) but there is something about chinese games that sometimes click with my brain - there was a title called Sailing Era (kinda of a remake of old SNES Uncharted Waters). it was, by all measures, a mediocre game at best - but at the same time it felt completely tailored to me and i had a blast with it. still would've preferred if it had proper production value behind it, but sometimes personal preferences (or personal brain damage) can make up for a lot of shortcomings or maybe my taste in games is just awful and i'm coping hard. who knows

@LivefromPellamsWasteland 4 ай бұрын

Alongside the 'curse of early access' is the 'curse of swordfighting,' of which I am myself afflicted: swordfighting seems so inherently cool but none of the swordfighting games are quite as cool as swordfighting seems, which is why I keep buying Mount and Blade clones and being disappointed. Quality video Devin!

@TheRKG1337 4 ай бұрын

Don't forget to give Sacred a visit sometime soon to remember what a decent, even if not great, but decent Action Game was like back then. The Game reminded me of that so i thought you might've thought bout it too

@manlymollusc6534 4 ай бұрын

The pricing at least back when I bought it (10€ I think) was pretty good for what it is. Also there are quite a few selections of characters with different stories and play styles (settlement building f.e.). Just took me a few hours to look past the jank. Sadly fighting, which is the majority of the game, is not very interesting.

@ziljin Ай бұрын

I always wanted a diablo type game where you could have multiple party members instead of controlling just one person. Maybe they can make a better game next time or some other developer csn do something similar but better

@fungisrock8955 4 ай бұрын

Yet another game sitting in my wishlist, excited to see whether it's worth getting. Thanks for the video, Devin! Edit: Having finished the video I am now also on the fence...

@cheekibreeki9155 4 ай бұрын

I had this game, I played it to a huge extent to the point where it's only time limiting me from conquering the entire map power level wise and then I uninstalled the game and never looked back. To understand the production of this game, you would have to understand Chinese cultural mentality and how it is often clashing with the West. The first and only thing to understand is the 差不多 (cha bu duo) concept or the "good enough" (lol @ your video title). Unsurprisingly in the west, this directly translates to corner cutting, bad quality control and bad executions of already bad ideas (copied from previously good executions of bad ideas if you look at Alibaba, Temu, Shein etc). Everything in this game can be explained with that mentality. Why use Inkwash art for the background to proudly proclaim your game's cultural origin and heritage then go for the 2000s flashgame look for everything else? It's good enough. Why copy M&B's ideas where the dev spent a literal decade polishing before calling it a finished product? It's good enough for Armagan, it will be good enough for me. Why abandon development and call it a day? Game is good enough. If you google "cha bu duo" the first results aren't Chinese cultural commentary, or Chinese criticism of their lackluster work ethics etc. It's western precision industry manufacturers having a cry about how hard it is to source anything usable from China and their experiences doing it. On the logic puzzles, I'll argue that you'll hear the same complaints from someone with high IQ. I think it's only midwits and bragging parents who are hung up on IQ testing scores. But it is a staple in Chinese video games, even the good ones. A recent game I was playing and enjoyed had a whole optional questline that could only be progressed by doing Ancient Chinese Imperial Scholar exams. The content of the exams aren't a stat check to see if your character has good enough intelligence, meaning the game could gatekeep out unintelligent main characters from turning into the smartest scholar around. The game instead gave you an actual exam on ancient Chinese philosophy. Granted it was multiple choice so there should be a logical route to completing it right? Nope, its localization has made it so jumbled and ESL that a lot of the ancient sayings no longer make sense. I had to open a steam guide to actually do those questions, often laughing along the way because I knew those blurbs of ancient wisdom all along.

@OffyDGG 4 ай бұрын

That's really interesting. I hadn't heard of that before, but it totally makes sense. It feels like early access gaming is a great place for this method to thrive, since you get the money before it's done, so it must become extremely easy to say 'good enough' and abandon the project. My suspicion is that this logic puzzle thing is coming from a place where people feel guilty or degenerate for playing games, and so injecting some kind of official IQ-test style content gives it more credibility. All this said, it seems the trend can be bucked. I really liked Dyson Sphere Project, which is a high quality work still being added to with cool stuff. And because I am a sinner who cannot be forgiven, I liked Genshin Impact. In both cases I was pleasantly surprised, as while they are copying existing games, they managed to improve upon them in various ways, and there are no problems with production value. So perhaps the cha bu duo can still be overcome by focusing on the better products emerging and complaining endlessly about the rest!

@R3GARnator 4 ай бұрын

Now I know why Chinese products are synonymous with low quality.

@TourFaint 4 ай бұрын

This game has such a 'late era flash game' vibe. It feels like something off the front page of newgrounds, something that is honestly impressive for a free flash game. But yeah, for a paid product, it's not professional enough

@warlove5106 4 ай бұрын

Chinese mount and blade sounds really cool think I'll make my own impression, thanks for that!

@prestongarvey7745 4 ай бұрын

19:32 you know I dad a similar thought just the other day. I suppose great minds do think alike.

@calvinhammond7282 4 ай бұрын

I remember doing a full playthrough with the game and only getting more disappointed as i got deeper into it and figured out more of the powergamey mechanics. As it turns out only the power of your character and other heros really matters and at end game you will be one shotting armies with only the other commander as a obstacle as they scale with you and this ends in a strange dps race which you can fix by janking the enemy into a wall. Mid game archers are best however. The plot is wildly insane however. Reminded me a lot of the black army hoard mods in warband where a new faction would take over the map stronger then the rest. Regardless i think if you end up playing it again youll just find more reasons to dislike it. However as a historical dive i agree with that other commenter that you should play the old fudalism flash games as they are as far as i know the first game with that gameplay loop you described and you will find a lot more connections to it with this game than mount and blade.

@DrGuretOnizuka 4 ай бұрын

I am curious if Devin thinks the game is better or worse than Battle Brothers. I really want Devin to play amazing cultivator simulator. Which is like Rimworld but crazier.

@OffyDGG 4 ай бұрын

I played more of battle brothers, but I didn't really enjoy it. My vague memory is that it was too slow and miserable, probably only fun once you start exploits and such so it becomes easy. But it seemed a well made implementation of what it was trying to do. As for chinese rimworld, I had never heard of that, but I am now dangerously tempted. Looks wild!

@DrGuretOnizuka 4 ай бұрын

@@OffyDGG If you are into Chinese mythology, it has all the Cultivation tropes, Anything in the world can gain sentience , Demons/Yaoguai (You can even play as one), Crazy sects, Martial Arts, Meditating to gain Spiritual Divinity, Training your body to become an unkillable god and more. I really want to see a Battle Brothers Exploit campaign featuring OffyD.

@7Tenchi 4 ай бұрын

I'm the target audience cause I love the Mount and Blade style of game and I am firmly i the camp of we need a few dozen more. I'm aware it has issues but I don't mind because it scratches an itch, however if more games get made in this style more innovation will happen that will hammer out at least the bigger issues.