Santa Lootboxes Are RIGGED!?

The title might sound like clickbait or a joke, but the truth is actually far worse.
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[@Flamuu]

VERY hard to give them the benefit of the doubt after getting these results. The thread that sparked the test: www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/k6ivy5/how_wg_chooses_your_santa_gift_ship_and_why_you/ Stream: www.twitch.tv/flamuu Insta: instagram.com/flamugram/ Twitter: twitter.com/flamuchz Discord: discord.gg/Flamu

[@Ace42x]

I just spent a fortune on mega crates (120 or so crates plus using the doubloons that dropped to buy more) to test it (more than I've spent on any given whale anime bundle)- Got no premium time, very few doubloons, very little coal, plenty of ships but they were all low-value - no rares (AFAIK) or T9s. Hundreds of economic flags and trash temp camos - which is crap. It seemed to be back-filling my inventory with low-value armoury / resource trash ships (Octo Rev, Makarov, Indianapolis, D'osta, Marblehead, Nuervo, laods of German & French destroyers, Silliwangi - yahagi which has removed the only incentive I had to grind Hizen). Bearing in mind I have LOADS of the mega-list ships in my inventory already (Yuudachi, Azuma, Marblehead Lima, Kirov, Vanguard, Indom, Enterprise, Abruzzi, Roma, California - tons and tons of trash armoury ships, etc, etc) It was dropping between 2 and 4 ships per stack of 20, so you can work out how long it would take you to exhaust all the other trash to reach the T9s / rares. They better roll out the "dismiss spare commanders for CO xp", because they've filled my barracks with 10 pointers I don't want or need. The only way I can see to get value out of it is to just outright buy out the entire armoury / premium ship list and then hope to gatchapon the valuable ships - and even then you'll have to brute-force your way through any resource-ships you can't afford. EDIT: For context, I had about 50 of the ships on the megalist already: drops subsequent to this were 4x T8 (Ocha, sili, terribles, witchita), 4x T7 (Poltava, Indiana, Z-39, Nuerve), 6xT6 (Aigle, D'Aosta, De Grasse, Monahagan, PE Freirdrich, Makarov); 7xT5/6 (Hill, Yahagi, Krazny, Marblehead vanilla, Sirroco, Octo Revo, T-61). Going through the ones I could buy for cash in the armoury, that totals to about £315 - or 6 stacks of 2 megaboxes. So in that respect the value is (very roughly) about equal - this is back-of-a-cigaratte-packet maths without me double-checking my addition or exactly which ships did or didn't drop, and bearing in mind I spent an extra 1,500 doubloons on top of the doubleloons I won in my Mega Boxes to buy another stack of 8 mega boxes from the armoury; and bearing in mind I got hundreds of economic flags and camos in the drop. If you had fewer of the ships in your port before buying, or were buying fewer than 20 *mega* crates per opening, then I suspect your value would drop far below the break-even amount; and of course getting ships on sale / in bundles /etc is going to be cheaper than buying them at full price outright from the premium shop. DOUBLE EDIT: Splurged about the same again - as soon as you start weeding out lesser ships you do get to the better drops, but it is *very much* in order of value - weird exception being Orkan dropped for me after Musashi. On the plus side - getting three or four T8s for £50 starts to make the investment look not so bad once all the trash ships are gone; on the negative side I stopped getting 4x ships dropping at a time and was averaging 1 or 2 per 20 crates, which is again pretty close to breaking even for T9 ships - but YMMV where you're getting just a Imp Nikolai and no other ships; or Kamekaze+Fujin instead of a T9, but you're still getting bonus flags and camos, it starts seeming more worthwhile, also got the 180-day premium drop which appears to take the place of a T9 / Rare ship drop in the pecking order. Definitely a case of "only bother if you've cleared out the premium store / armoury of cheap (

[@tim9241]

Puerto Rico: I’m the most controversial shit show in the history of wows!’ Makarov: ‘... hold my beer’

[@Mongo63a]

I told them I would never spend money on this game after they screwed me on the Mosikva to Petro change with perm cammo. I use to buy a few Xmas containers each year but no more. Your video just reinforced this.

[@Ace42x]

Oh, and those economic flags better end up give me an unprecedented amount of credits because it's going to cost me a fortune to slot equipment in all of these junk ships, even if many of them are too low for slots 4+ EDIT: Didn't get an Orkan out of the megacrates though, despite getting a ton of other ships, FWIW.

[@elrabin]

This is why i've stopped giving Wargaming money, this just reinforces my decision from last year.

[@neox464]

Playerbase: Man, last years Christmas event was a disaster. An absolute worst. WG: Worst one, so far.

[@nonofyabidnez5737]

What happened last year? I missed it.

[@nathanschwartz3308]

@@nonofyabidnez5737 paytorico kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZuUoYWPnbuNf5I

[@nonofyabidnez5737]

@@nathanschwartz3308 Oh right the Puerto Rico disaster xD

[@cyanide7389]

EA & Activision: we have some of the scummiest macrotransactions in our games! WeeGee: Hold my Makarov

[@RACGump]

EA & Activision learnt all they have from WG.... They have been at it a long time.

[@myvideosetc.8271]

This can be understood in other ways.

[@VladMcCain]

At least you get something halfway useful instead of some useless skins that only look good and some emoticons. And a 0.0001% chance to get that cool gun or whatever.

[@ethernil]

Microtransanctions are the partial reason Heroes of the Storm failed, it was following a too greedy model.

[@darkhoshinonz]

Funny that. opened one from completing the ship building collection (containers now in armoury) last night and it gave me the Makarov.

[@Technetium4342]

Playerbase: "Wait, WG is worse than EA now?" WG: (cocks gun) "Always has been."

[@insanewriter4247]

Me: (Points already loaded Tokarev with HP and safety off) "Wanna try, WG?"

[@sergiovboas]

WG is shooting itself in the foot with... A Makarov!!!

[@chriscannon4262]

You don't like the Soviet Nuremberg lol

[@Dyx_DeTcTBa]

This joke become slightly more deeper, if you consider, that PM (Makarov pistol) is mostly "inspired" (tbh it is common practice through history and shouldn't be shamed) by german Walther PPk pistol. You know, how IRL and in WoWs Makarov IS the slightly modified german Nurnberg light cruiser. ;)

[@Event_LUNAE_Horizon]

@@Dyx_DeTcTBa but those who lost the war can't complain

[@JurgenDX]

that awkward moment when 3 virtualy worthless ships cost him more than 3 AAA games... YIKES

[@agoogleuseranonymous2658]

This exactly lol.

[@asurars]

But that saved a lot more money that the viewers would probably spent on these so it was worth it, I guess?

[@VerrueckterKerl85]

and 3 AAA games are worth something?🤔

[@JurgenDX]

@@VerrueckterKerl85 you can buy physical copies for games, that's an actual material thing that will always have some value, the ships in a video game are absolutely worthless packets of data that are completely useless without the game itself, if WoWs shuts down, you just threw money down the toilet.

[@HamletTwin]

Dude that's 3 copies of Cyberpunk 2077. Just wow...

[@kdfsdofk]

WG's understanding of the term "rigging a ship" :D

[@twig4661]

hehe neat

[@1mol831]

What’s wrong with the makarov though?

[@victorvondoom4869]

@@1mol831 a premium Nurnberg, that's all. If you put money in just to get a Premium Nurnberg then i don't know what to say

[@wtfmrb293]

Rigging games

[@henrik.norberg]

THIS is why we need to classify loot boxes as gambling AND regulate it.

[@agoogleuseranonymous2658]

Agreed lol. This is a lottery game on its own.

[@johncopeland4782]

Interestingly WoWs is located in Cyprus. Cypriot gaming laws specifically exclude games that do not involve cash prizes. As the crates don't provide cash... not classified as gambling. So no rules apply!

[@Jognt]

@@johncopeland4782 That's not how law works. Companies have to adhere to the laws of every country where they do business.

[@SuperStevieye]

@@Jognt this. Countries could easily ban and regulate gambling/lootboxes in games. It just takes some work to figure out how to make an actual law from that and differentiate between real gambling lootboxes and normal random mechanics that don't involve gambling.

[@GrumpyIan]

@@SuperStevieye Them actually doing their job?? What kind of monstrosity is this?

[@opposingcritter]

Would not surprise me if the ship chance suddenly improved over the next day or so if this gets enough attention pretend it was a bug.

[@IslandCat97080]

Doubt they will change anything - they haven't really shown any desire to respond to other comments.

[@SahiPie]

3rd option: They ignore everything and stays mum

[@orztaku]

most likely outcome they will change the wording in the articles like they did before (e.g. Puerto Rico) and call it a day.

[@gee.g.3131]

flamu: -40 EUR WG: -400,000 EUR

[@hardworkingslacker7233]

That is an utopian bottom line prediction. You need to add a few zeros!

[@origamichik3n]

@@hardworkingslacker7233 You need to change "-" to "+". Players are complaining about gambling boxes since those were introduced (Xmas 2017 in WoT, not sure about WoWS). But players also buy them in hundreds every year ever since. If there is anything Wargaming should worry about it's whether their pockets are going to burst with all the money.

[@hardworkingslacker7233]

@@origamichik3n Yeah, forgot thar the majority of the player base consists of low-information customers aka people not subscribed to Flamu's YT Channel

[@SoldierOfFate]

@@hardworkingslacker7233 Or just people that have no control/discipline over their credit cards and spending habits.

[@TheTolleBiene]

@@hardworkingslacker7233 i wish it was like this...but in reality its just + for wg

[@hammerald2654]

I can confirm, it can be checked anytime on WoWsNumbers: 20 x Mega Santa: Duca and Yudachi, 20 x Big Santa: California and Orkan! We can actually sue WG in EU for illegal hidden practices regarding loot-boxes!

[@MegaSteak757]

Sounds like a fun idea, but not sure if anything would happen of it... I mean you could have sued WG for the same thing last year with the PR Im sure, as they did say it was very much possible

[@user-iw7ki9gj6g]

Hope someone does..

[@stc3145]

Lets do like the Dutch did to EA and give them a few million Euros in fines unless they remove it

[@razvananghel7492]

Gl suing a russian company with the headquarters in Cyprus, a tax heaven and in Belarus . Good luck with that

[@festungkurland9804]

@@razvananghel7492 Do it for the bad PR on them.

[@xeptfy388]

It's funny that WG put the shortlisted ships and other ships into two different shapes containers: shortlist ship in Santa container and other ships in super container. So they don't even bother hiding this fact LOL.

[@SalvaBarbus]

Well, at least there were some positives to this video: - Eye-opening regarding WG scammy practices - Flolo being good for chat - Chat reciprocating for flolo - Nachi, still as pretty as ever flamuLOVE

[@SahiPie]

WG has been scummy for years across multiple games, what exactly is eye-opening here? Who is actually shocked by this reveal?

[@GAIS414]

I don't do business with WG since the Puerto Rico scam last year. Pathologically criminal companies should be boycotted. As they say " Play stupid games, win stupid prizes".

[@Yautah]

Same. They've convinced me to reinstall Wows and WoT with free stuff and Holy shit: Red stuff everywhere to click on at least half a dozen currencies Loot boxes gives you useless object for a weird and also useless collection ? Most tanks I liked have been nerfed/powercreeped into oblivion "free" stuff requires me to play at least 5h/day Yeah I remember why now..

[@MrTheWaterbear]

Glad to hear that Captain Haddock is so sensible ^^

[@eldridgep2]

Haven't spent a penny on this game since then and stopped playing. Will probably do snowflakes this year as it's been a while but they aren't getting any cash off me again.

[@moonshifter0]

@@MrTheWaterbear By all hundred thousand hellhounds!

[@SoldierOfFate]

@@Yautah Unfortunately, nerfing/powercreeping is the standard for almost every single PvP game out on the market.

[@temudschin180]

Big F to Warships community

[@tunemaki_izlasitrlv6835]

F

[@innerarts4091]

F

[@poppinhymes1878]

Big F to the grade of WG these last few years

[@IKoNKaRb0N]

F

[@awan317]

F

[@ogremustang]

Once you have the Yudachi and Vanguard from the Mega containers get ready for a fleet of Tier 5/6 junk, don't ask just trust me.

[@DGGoriginal]

i spent 100€ on na server, i got no ship. I bought another few container with dublons, i got a duca de aosta LOL a 130€ daosta

[@ryanc00p3r3]

Flamu: Pls don't be Yuudachi.. Container: Poi~? Flamu: oohhhh......

[@Igiveashitofaname]

Sad Poi noises

[@UpstateGardening]

Say what you want about Flamu, he keeps it 💯

[@Vuxlort]

When this happened, you could hear a penny drop.

[@WolfSpiritOlka58]

"The council has awarded you with a singular yike" -Russian Badger

[@Sk-bn1jt]

2020 Christmas Event can’t get worse than 2019 paytorico WG : okay hold my beer

[@MetalMachine131]

I dont get it. WG could make Cristmas Containers that simply have amazing drop rates for ships and steel. People spend a lot of money and get a lot of cool stuff. Simple. But no. Who like fans anyway?

[@newman8r45]

Because they expect to make even more money by assuming the vast majority of their playerbase are morons who won't notice the rigging.

[@Spindrift_87]

They don't want fans. They want customers - or, more specifically, whales

[@cobrazax]

they want people to spend and get shit...so they spend more and get more shit. easy...and they still think its random and fair...LOL hidden on purpose

[@botasterisk5163]

Have to hand it to WG,last Christmas' PR scandal,Now this,well done WG,this is the consistancy I love you for........Kappa

[@philiphinrichs]

more consistent than the historical features of the ships lmao

[@nonowgoaway]

And we haven't even gotten to _this_ year's Dockyard fiasco yet.

[@matejsramek3195]

Holy ship your use of punctuacion is giving me a serious headache.

[@vecioalpin8998]

Talking about transparency... Do you remember when they said "Black & Neustrashimi will return for coal" Where is the BLACK???

[@johntaylor4975]

@@nonowgoaway true. Cant wait for that party to start smh

[@kiyokiyoko]

'Community outraged as company known for scummy practices does another scummy practice'

[@tormodhamnebukt487]

This is illegal. It is actually illegal in the EU atleast.

[@tormodhamnebukt487]

@@MegaFregel because you have to give out the odds of the loot inside the crate if it is not random. That is the gambling law of the EU.

[@tormodhamnebukt487]

Thats why it needs to have the real percentages dummy. Bying a container with a random assortment of loot with the same percentage drop rate is legal. Buying a loot crate without the same drop rate without telling the explicit rate of drops is illegal. Now since you are not accepting this fact, and not understanding why WG is uncoditionally giving refunds, I guess you have a law degree better then mine. Right? Or are you just a dumbass arguing because you like the game?

[@tormodhamnebukt487]

Now, you do not have any more intelligence then google. So I don't trust you to be able to interpret individual laws as any law schooled person, but let's try. Consumer protection and enforcement from the Commission department for justice and consumers, in particular the European Consumer Agenda and the Unfair Commercial Practices Directive Areas under the Digital Single Market, such as audiovisual and other media content, 'Better internet for kids policies' and the fight against illegal content online. Commonly refered to as gambling laws. Now I expect you to read the whole laws and individual rulings to understand this. Not just google shit. "EU rules on unfair commercial practices enable national enforcers to curb a broad range of unfair business practices. Examples of unfair business practices include untruthful information to consumers or aggressive marketing techniques to influence their choices. The Directive has been amended by Directive (EU) 2019/2161 of 27 November 2019 on better enforcement and modernisation of Union consumer protection rules, part of the ‘New Deal for Consumers” Review of EU consumer law - New Deal for Consumers Consolidated text of the Unfair Comercial Practices Directive" All of thid from: ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/consumers/unfair-commercial-practices-law/unfair-commercial-practices-directive_en

[@tormodhamnebukt487]

And further. This law set enables any consumer living in the EU to complain based on over national guidelines and laws, regardless of national laws, especially since WG is an international company operating within the EU and its affiliate economic partners like Norway, and soon to be GB. WG realized this and made sure to offer a full refund.

[@tormodhamnebukt487]

@@MegaFregel And to further adress your missunderstanding I'll give you the right paragraphs aswell: DIRECTIVE 2005/29/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 11 May 2005 CHAPTER 1 GENERAL PROVISIONS Purpose and definitions given in article 1 and 2 (a) and (b) along with M1, the specific breach is concerning Section 1 article 6, but to keep it short you can go and read it yourself and see if you can interpret it since you are so sure =) it is all available at: eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1585324585932&uri=CELEX%3A02005L0029-20220528

[@ladion7285]

This is straight up criminal. Someone pls sue them.

[@PropaneWP]

Underestimated comment. This is pretty much a _major_ economic crime.

[@derpysaurus1017]

My thoughts exactly

[@razvananghel7492]

Gl suing a russian company with the headquarters in Cyprus, a tax heaven and in Belarus . Good luck with that

[@stc3145]

Razvan Anghel If there is evidence of them breaking EU laws they could be banned from selling their product unless they fix it, and they would lose alot of money if that happens

[@razvananghel7492]

@@stc3145 they sell their products online and unless servers are in the EU, which they arent, there is nothing you could do to them. WG has been at it for a long time, the owner is an oligarch which owns the only functional Tiger tank outside the one at Bovington museum, a guy that doesnt give a fuck who knows exactly what to get away with. This company is really evil and we re the fools putting up with them

[@florianbielawa2919]

Can we get an F to all people that bought Santa Gifts this year.

[@serbreadboard8578]

Yup, just had a match with a Yudachi on both teams as I was watching this after playing hundreds of matches over the past couple of months and not seeing any

[@fluxthelycanroc9603]

I was gonna buy some but...nvm

[@ldeadpirate9432]

F

[@craigels2143]

I did the dumbest thing, bought 120. Will NEVER, and I mean this for real, will NEVER AGAIN buy any random crates

[@strasnodimke]

Bought 8 for 18€ or so, got 3 ships California , okhotnik ant tier 6 Stalin cruiser Makarov it's fine I guess, but that proofs the bastards scripted it fucking scumbags

[@basvanheumen4231]

Gotta love the fact that Santa is enjoying himself everytime a lootbox opens. The "Ho ho ho ho" is getting more sadistic everytime you get a ship or camo from the shortlist.

[@fanatik2134]

Hahahahah it is like we are sitting under the Christmas tree and WG shit on us hahahhah

[@GDViperWorks]

Crates distributed by Dominion Voting Systems

[@ThePiXbO]

This! LMFAO

[@pallegantzhorn3742]

So... we gonna get a Makarov vid next? lol

[@tunemaki_izlasitrlv6835]

I hope we get a vid from the court of whoever is responsible for this.

[@blork74]

It will be the Yudacheat vid instead

[@SIXPACFISH]

Yes! Play the "FREE" crappy ships you "WON" so everyone can see just how "good" they are!

By purchasing these boxes, you gave WG an extra few bucks but at the same time exposed them publically, so people will save more money in the end, for they simply won't purchase. Good work.

[@gildedphoenix]

I have doubts of that. People are stupid and ignorant to do that.

[@ne0fenris]

the short list is just all the ships you told people not to buy

[@aprilwhitemouse1593]

Thank you for doing this, Flamu. This kind of information is invaluable for helping protect players.

[@whitefish2626]

You just saved me 100 Euros. Thank you Flamu.

[@Mastermyth08]

Thanks for exposing this, as well the original threadmaker on reddit.

[@neilstephennavigar950]

Yet again, Wargaming never disappoints to disappoint. This is criminal.

[@marcofava]

That's why I stopped spending money on this game after Roma came out, last ship and last euro I ever gave WG

[@MrRagequitnow]

Less rigging on a sailboat, than these "santa" containers.

[@Paradize__]

to all the guys that are complaining, that he posted this too late: its not his fault when you cant wait to burn your money... just sayin

[@NameCannotBeBlank24]

And as if the PR last year was not a lesson that they should've learned. I love playing WoWs back then but now I'm thinking twice about spending a single cent on this game.

[@Chironex_Fleckeri]

@@NameCannotBeBlank24 just leech. Maybe buy premium time at a discount if that matters to you. That's what I do. It's a free game for me. Makes it feel a lot better

[@1mol831]

@@Chironex_Fleckeri I didn’t even spend a cent for playing so long. I can just buy premiums using doubloons earned from normal containers.

[@Jorakful]

You are correct. I had a good feeling and really want Missouri and Enterprise. My impatience got me the Duca d'aosta. Not going to do that mistake again.

[@tijmen131]

Flamu literally did this the day the boxes came out. People are stupid to not wait it out

[@luisaugusto6835]

waiting the video of NoZoupForYou defending WG...

[@chriscannon4262]

@@neonlight1214 Every comment on that channel gets defended, good , bad or ugly. I mentioned how I thought Vermont's guns were good and I got so slammed

[@Grizzly1810]

Got Exeter and Huanghe 2019. Thought was bad luck.... Now i know why 😂🥳

[@mikecamp236]

same here, now i know why lol not bought containers since as i thought it just bad luck. only ones I get I grind for.

[@razvandavid1510]

I got the exact same ships. And they said it's random...Suuuuuuuure....

[@markwilloughby6142]

Same here.. Strangely enough I got Exeter and Huanghe last Christmas!..

[@razvandavid1510]

So basically the shortlists change periodically (every year?) and the contents of these shortlists are rather meh/uninspiring/ undesirable ships, with no possibility to draw ships outside of these shortlists unless you have at least one shortlisted ship already. Last year we had Brexeter/Huang Meh and this year we have Kakarov/Poi ship. Gotta love just how creative they are when it comes to scamming people for Christmas in a pandemic year.

[@Grizzly1810]

@@razvandavid1510 seems that they did it 2019 and 2020. Im in the Stream right now. They said that they will comment on monday.

[@stc3145]

WG is now officially worse than EA

[@ivantheterrrible9213]

Lol that is nowhere near the truth, EA is a Satan, along with Disney. WG is amateur league in that Scam Universe.

[@lucasdement5629]

They are russians

[@howtogitgud]

@@ivantheterrrible9213 How's Disney is equivalent to EA?

[@innerarts4091]

@@howtogitgud Disney was trying to license "el día de los muertos" a mexican cultural tradition when they made that fuckin movie called Coco..... Lmao....

[@MythicFrost]

@@ivantheterrrible9213 Well, they are not smart what comes to scams because they dont know how to hide said scam!

[@armchairadmirals156]

I opened 20 Big Containers before this was posted - I opened Makarov, California and Orkan. I also purchased 8 Mega containers - I opened Vanguard and Ochakov. Spend your money wisely!

[@valkyriedown5465]

Vanguard and Ochakov are on the shortlist lol

[@Pow3llMorgan]

Or don't spend your money at all :I

[@jordananderson2728]

@@valkyriedown5465 that's the point he was making, yes

[@jojojam753]

I opened 20 Containers too and got the Massachusetts without having duca or makarov

[@valkyriedown5465]

@@jojojam753 did you have Ochakov, Vanguard. Yuudachi, California, or Orkan?

[@komeon101]

Note update I have seen not less than 3 other YT clips verifying the reedit post results. All are ones off the short list. Including 1 clip where the creator had bought +20 containers of each type.. Results YEP identical - short lists. The only random being an Ark Royal.

[@skylarsimes8]

Send this to Jim Sterling. The guy has spent years warning about these god damn gambling systems and this would be more evidence he can use and signal boost it to even more viewers

[@Arkus-Duntov]

Just stopped playing WG games a while ago, spending my money on things in real life I can enjoy makes more sense.

[@Steelshadow104]

Still stuck on this game and I haven't spent money on the trash since, but after all the future bs balance changes being released, I'm prob just gonna quit again. WT looking pretty nice now

[@Etaoinshrdlu69]

@@Steelshadow104 or you could get into hobby modelling.

[@Steelshadow104]

@@Etaoinshrdlu69 ha jokes on you, I'm already into british railways and ship modeling. I've already invested a lot and still don't have nearly enough :)

[@FevnorTheWolf]

I played Warships since open beta. after 3 years i finally said fuck it and just stopped. After 2 years, i saw the direction it was going and took a 6 month break after back to back grind events. came back for a few months but no longer had the will to stick around.

[@T1g3rd4v1d]

@@FevnorTheWolf i played the games too from open beta. I paused the game, about 2 Times, i know and feel they going the wrong way but i can't takedown. 😪

[@SzczepanZZ]

3 friends on mine opened Big Santa's Gift containers, all of 'em got Makarovs. Yeah, seems rigged.

[@ryangaspers3805]

Everyone who got the Makarov.....its WGs version of coal in your stocking! Lol.

[@wilmotebeuscart301]

imagine if there is a seconde shortlist after this one. Once you got the 3/4 ships in the first short list, you "access" another one of 4 other ships

[@Dyx_DeTcTBa]

Then it will be at least some evidence in the discussion. But from what I see - people either get exactly mentioned ships (if they haven't at least one of them) OR all other ships from supercontainer. Which directly tells, that shortlist for Christmas conts in fact consists of exactly mentioned ships. To counter this theory, someone must proof, that he win any other ship except mentioned from the Christmas cont and not supercont

[@Dyx_DeTcTBa]

BTW, my comment above do not denies that some kind of shortlist can exist for superconts as well.

[@Andreas-yj8sx]

No, at least there is no second one, after the shortlist (approx. 25 containers), I got only super containers with different ships...

[@FoxerWilde]

Im in chock, not that WG are scaming ppl but that their is ppl still believing Russian WG will do anything nice for the community

[@hansheden]

I have 102/107 ships including Makarov. I don't have: Neustra, Siliwangi, California, Indomitable and Campagne. I bet I'll get a California first. EDIT: A clanmate of mine got three ships. Makarov, Yudachi and Duca.

[@VidZarg]

Only from megas you will get Cali first.

[@hansheden]

@@VidZarg Look again. "Big gift shortlist. Makarov California Orkan" Also Cali is the lowest tier I don't have and I have 35 T10s so I don't have to pay anything to get her.

[@cfrost6383]

Thx for doing this Flamu! WG has taken the path of EA Games, milk everything possible out of the playerbase and hope for the best.

[@sleepygryph]

They had to rig it, before they used to give you dubloons for doubles. Which "lost" them a lot of money when they had fewer premiums. But the algorithm has always been in their favor. Props to Flamu for making a video on this.

[@MegaDobieDog]

Are you really surprised? Still... after 5 years?

[@mrandersson1082]

Well, the first 2 years was pretty soild...

[@MegaDobieDog]

@@mrandersson1082 Ok agreed, but than it was only downhill.

[@artlew6547]

Well, before it was just a rip off. Now its full scale scam on thier own community.

[@flamedphoenix84]

WOW, good job WG. RIGGED.

[@wtfmrb293]

Busted

[@ILGlocker]

Google their address and harass the hell out of them. They need to stop the sale, admit to what they have done, and refund all crates just as a start. This is at least a extremely shady situation but could very well be criminal. I encourage anyone who purchased these to contact their local law enforcement/district attorney and report it.

[@HamletTwin]

That is just disgusting on WG's part. So essentially you'd need to spend $150+ just for a CHANCE to get any actual good ships from the crates. You could buy 3 copies of Cyberpunk 2077 with that amount of money! This lootbox gambling BS needs to be eradicated.

[@MRx36000]

Wow... I want to see if they will address THAT! lol Betting they will ignore any topics about it

[@PleDaruZ]

WarGaming? More like ScamGaming...

[@Gorillazilla93]

World of Warscamming

[@zenmail42]

@@Gorillazilla93 beat me to it

[@Jimmy5208]

This is sad. I got a nikolai from the first santa crates event years ago. Won't be spending any more cash on wg ever again.

[@axeya366]

Chances are only in the ship drop rate to boxes purchased. The odds of different ship drops have been set in a sequential order. There is no chance of getting the ship you want before actually getting every other ship WG has set from there list and they can change it or add more bad ships into the list.

[@GreyMourner.]

Just keep in mind, this does not confirm anything... But with how many people (yes, not just flamuu) are getting the exact same results, at this point it does seem pretty likely.

[@PropaneWP]

There's higher likelihood of Santa being real than this not being a scam...

[@gorgefood9867]

The big big scam. In order to prove the casino isn't rigged, people have to spend thousands to collect enough samples for the analysis to be statistically significant.

[@williamsanders]

I'm honestly surprised so many of you are surprised by this. The dice always has been loaded, and the "fluff" always drops first. Has been the case since 2017 onwards.

[@MyXrayz]

Please tweet or write Mails to websites such as PCGAMER, GAMESTAR, POYLGON and so on to get them to make an article (very clickbate-able) about this SCAM. The higher the pressure the better. We shouldnt SHUT UP about this SCAMS anymore. We need to be noisy.

[@MrAlexg1101]

My friend and I did this and can confirm we both got these ships first. Once I had got the ships from the shortlist it generally worked from tier 5 up to tier 9 with rare ships generally in the second half. I opened 400 mega gifts. Each container you open is more valuable than the last.

[@MsGeorge50]

This kind of gambling needs to get flagged and removed from the game

[@shinkicker404]

It really does.

[@stc3145]

Its against EU regulations

[@MsGeorge50]

@@stc3145 I don't think these gaming companies give a shit about regulations since most of them are doing the same chest/lootbox/crap with shinny lights box thing

[@sharkuc]

Here in Belgium it already falls under gambling laws, so you can't get these containers. Not that I play any more or would spend money on getting these containers even if they were available... but yeah, scummy AF.

[@owheng]

Love the reaction of the chat once the ships name popped out. :D

[@windfire5380]

I now have ALL the ships in the list. I can verify that I got a few spam-ships first (tier 6 Erich Loewenhardt) and the >last< 2 ships were the Tier IX missing ships (eg: Agir was the last). Basically I got them in tier order.

[@1987ZerO]

Well what you seriously expect? WG doesn’t want those rare ships to become common since many of them are broken straightforward overpowered (Giulio/Kamikaze). The real mistake was to ever introduce those ships in the first place. But WG is a company that manages to turn a mistake into financial income since they are well aware people buy those containers just because of those ships. It’s simple psychology and it works out quite well for them. Last year I think I spent around 200€ for those containers in the hope that I might get one of these or at least some nice t8 premiums that I don’t have already. In fact I got a huanghe, 9k doubloos, 120 days of premium and something like 100k coal. Also I got a shitload of camos which sit useless on my account. Maybe I got unlucky but after talking to several other people it become clear that they more or less end up with the same. In summary I would say that if you don’t have a lot of premium ships, doubloons and premium time those containers can be quite okayish. There is a good chance you might not get the value out of it that you expected tho. After all it’s a gable and very likely also manipulated by WG which if you think about it makes sense from a financial perspective. For all of those that just want those kinda ships and don’t really need other stuff I can only say don’t be naive and use your brain. The chances to get these very little and the money you may spent for it not worth the frustration. Buy them only if you are 100% aware you very likely not get what you want.

[@mamibufi]

Damn I wish WG was forced to show all the odds because that is scummy as heck

[@NotCondorTheBird]

Been playing Wargaming since betas of WoT and this game, after the IS-3A fiasco i became all too aware! Thanks for posting, need more people like you, cheers

[@stuffhappens9215]

If it's like the prior two years, it's worth noting that the supercontainer list appears to be heavily weighted to cheap/crap/commonplace or even free event ships as well. You will have to be extremely lucky to see your first tier 9 before getting every other ship below it first, excluding the pulled ships, which are even harder to get than tier 9s.

[@quatschkopq186]

Please make sure to watch the video until the end, vote, and even rewind for greater video scores and thereby more people seeing this.

[@jimmyseaver3647]

The very first container I opened contained a Makarov. I thought it odd. Uh-oh...

[@DanielWW2]

8:50 17:45 *RIGGED* That disappointment though. edit: Thanks for doing this Flamu. Hopefully you save a lot of people some money like this.

[@stuffanthings]

'Please don't be a Makarov' .........................................................................................Teethsucking intensifies

[@22louki]

In case you are socked let me know that this is not new. Last year i decided to take my chances and dig a little bit deeper just in case to get an very rare ship, or atleast one of the newest higher tier ships. What i realised was not only the fact you will inittially get predetermined ships but what happens AFTER you get there..... I opened a huge variety of tier 5's and 6's, almost every single of them, a hood, a duke of york, a lenin and a Vanguard. I also won a kamikaze, but please keep in mind that kamikaze is a tier 5 and that happened after i got EVERY tier 5 and 6 from boxes. So i came to a conclusion that if u want a very specific ship from these boxes you gotta have almost every single premium ship that ever existed, else your chances are minimal, also please notice that getting lower tier ships at first is quaranteed! Theoriticaly there is a chance to get an extremely rare ship even if u dont have every single ship but you still have to own a very huge collection... All and all i love wows, i believe they do great job improving the game, the graphics and gameplay is fantastic, but marketing team have messed up..and is not the first time. Loot boxes to me are equal to gambling and if they should not be forbidden, since we talk about a video game here, atleast give us the chances and any hidden conditions behind them. this is not a good deal, please avoid. If u want premium time or gold go buy them directly. i play this game for 5,5 years, most of us dont own a specific ship. just live with it and go on, unless you are willing to spent 500 or even more just to have a CHANCE to get something nice.. my honest opinion from personal experience.. happy holidays

[@certifiedmonke]

Wg being Wg again...

[@gerokron3412]

The holy spirit of Christmas. Let the coins come to me and they will be blessed.

[@josh885]

Ive been saying this for years about in video game gambling, what this really is and should be called. Maybe now people will start to listen. With NO regulation or over site from ANYONE they can do whatever they want you you have NO IDEA what real drop rates are or if they are even the same for everyone or even stay consistent for you. This is why even if you support in game gambling schemes like loot boxes you should also support regulation of them. Because even a casino has to put the chances to win on the slot machine and they have to be accurate and the machine has to truly be random or they will be in big trouble come the next inspection. If this kind of BS was happening in a brick and mortar instead of virtual casino it would be felony level fraud given the total amount of money people have spent on the crates.

[@rodrigogodoi4250]

The things is, the ship you get is NOT random. Lower tiers have a way higher chance to drop compared to higher tier ones. So if you want that Musashi, and have few premiums overall, get ready to buy like 300 mega containers because they will give you ALL SHIPS FROM THE TIERS BELOW 9 BEFORE THEY GIVE YOU THAT MUSASHI (example). You only get the higher tier ships AFTER getting all lower tier premiums. Also, just got Makarov today aswell, from a MEGA container...

[@Triantom]

I have opened a lot of containers today and this is very true. Makarov was my first premium from the big gifts and in my first 40 megas I got - Ochakov, Udachi, Duca Daosta with a few other ships. I had Vanguard already. They doing this to stop the average player from getting a ship like the Missouri or Musashi from a random drop.

[@jdogos]

While on the apr fleeit they sell a yamato with a neon camo and the legendary module for about 35000 doubloons, almost 100 euros or 875000 converted free xp (if you use doubloons for conversion) greeeeeeeeed!!!

[@Aotearas]

This has been empirically evidenced for quite a while already through the various collective drop share forum topics and other threads that went to gather statistical data. Each lootbox tier has a specific list of possible drops it will work through before any ship drops draw from the total pool of available ships and it always went bottom to top, you got the lower tier ships on the list first. The only times I've seen people getting high tier drops when they still didn't have lowtier ships from the total list was when said hightier drop was from the Big/Mega lootbox specific list. None of this behaviour is new. Anyone who had an eye out for this in the previous couple Santa lootbox events could see that distinctive drop behaviour emerging as more data got collected. The only thing that muddled the trend was that most people didn't bother adding context (i.e.: which ships they had prior to getting the lootboxes and in many cases didn't bother to sort their drops in order of reception) which made crossreferencing all that data a chore. Nevertheless, I'm happy that it's finally getting some traction to show how WG is stacking the cards in the houses favour. Not that it's something that wouldn't be expected: you gamble with lootboxes, you better be prepared for disappointment - but the fact that the drops aren't random and set up to provide as minimal value as possible (at least in regards to low tier vs high tier ship drops). Anyone looking to buy those lootboxes hoping for a rare premium like the Imperator Nikolai I., Gremyashchy, Kamikaze, Belfast, Kutuzov, Missouri, etc. has better have a more or less complete set of premium ships already in port or otherwise be prepared to buy enough lootboxes to drop every single non-rare premium before they should even realistically entertain the idea of getting a rare one. edit:// The only saving grace is that duplicate drops get you a different ship now instead of just the doubloons+port+captain as was in earlier Santa lootbox events. Used to be that people bought a whole bunch of lootbox sets, then opened them all at once to get like one new ship and a bunch of duplicates' worth of doubloons. Also the reason why it's recommended to buy smaller sets of lootboxes as the content in them is determined when you buy them, not when you open them. So if you didn't have ship X when you bought them and RNG said the lootboxes drop hour ships, you could end up with ship X and three X=doubloons duplicates instead of four different ships. That was an even worse shitshow back then!

[@turbogerbil2935]

Yep, from a pile of gifted boxes last year, ten ships in the exact order from low tier to high tier, with a break after Tier 7 where all Tier 8 CVs were inserted before the sequence continued with Tier 8 and up. Not exactly random when you can look at your premium ship holdings and predict the next drop ten times in a row with 100% accuracy!

[@LeifurHakonarson]

Well, actually you can still get yourself into that situation by amassing a lot of boxes before opening any of them. Only if you open each batch as soon as it drops are you guaranteed a substitute ship and not doubloons. This is documented on the web page. I personally think people are overreacting - I have known that the game was rigged in this fashion since 2017 - but if you hang on to the shitty ships then things get better year by year :-) This year I bought 10 sets of 20 megas (yes, I know) and most of my ships came from super containers - and they included the Missouri, Alaska, Nelson and Massachussets - all of which I rather like. The drop rate was 2.9 ships per 20 megas - the most I saw was 6 ships out of 20. Since the total number of containers was 200 I dare say my stats are reasonably accurate. I also got 162,500 coal - if I spent a little more I bet I could buy the Thunderer. Also, I figure that if I bought another 10 sets of 20 megas I would have every single ship on the list - so next year I would be skimming the cream off the top :-) Bottom line - just keep the vaseline handy and it doesn't hurt that bad :-)

[@willatkins9686]

@@LeifurHakonarson Victor will make you a shareholder! Lol, thx for the info.

[@szmike]

and I wondered why I got Genova and Indianapolis from one event....

[@bigb5762]

Not to burst your bubble, but haven't they done this for the past few years? I remember the last time I bought santa crates back in 2018, Dunkerque was one of the guaranteed ships from the $1 containers. Seemed like everyone got one.

[@potatoguardian7076]

Thank you, Flamu, for taking one for the team. I have enough disposable income and gold from ranked left over, so on the 4th I also bought a 20-set of Megas and guess what, Yudachi dropped first, then two SC (Arizona and Siliwangi) (by then neither video nor reddit was up). I'm more of a dolphin than a whale tbh, but I have contacted my countries consumer rights organization (as they have the legal know-how and possibilities) and I encourage, if y'all truly care about the future of the game and WGs predatory business practices (Pay-to-Rico?) to calmly contact your local consumer rights organization and let them handle it. Because honestly, at this point, does anyone really think WG "we will bring it up with the devs on Monday" will solve Makarovgate in a satisfactory manner? It's a time of joy and giving, vote with your wallets and the voice of the community as consumers. Cheers all, have a good week and despite everything, good holidays!

[@kdog3908]

Is anyone genuinely surprised? Thanks though Flamu. Your sacrifice is appreciated.

[@B2KDeluxe]

17:42 THAT Timing tho xD please dont be Yudachi. OURIGHT .................FOR THE TEAM!

[@amadeokomnenus1414]

I was looking for this comment. That ''For the team'' is hilariously timed

[@B2KDeluxe]

@@amadeokomnenus1414 we need this in a compilation of funny wows streams xD

[@amadeokomnenus1414]

@@B2KDeluxe Absolutely. Its a meme in its own right

[@amadeokomnenus1414]

@@B2KDeluxe Before i witness a mishap unfold or accidents happen in the future , im going to mumble ''For the Team''

[@B2KDeluxe]

​XDDD

[@alal5688]

Confirmed. Got only Ships from the shortlist

[@user-hf4ii8bn5z]

8:48 Makarov 9:40 Hood 17:45 Yudachi 18:48 De Grasse

[@sogetsu001]

That's why I get an Ochakov :/ Well played, WG

[@QuasarRedshift]

Damn, these Russians learned a lot from Americans . . .

[@alexy.3512]

As Russian-American, I guess, I should feel double offended.

[@FighterofGD]

It even looks like the drop chance differs between the cheaper real money big containers and the big containers for dubloons. I opened 60 real money containers and didn't get a single ship. Then I bought 13 Containers from the dubloons I got with these conainers and had two ships. (For more information I was missing 8 ships in total from that list). The drop chance is really bad. Edit: Just because I was curious, bought 20 additional Containers with dubloons, had three additional ships inside. So basically 60 cheaper real money big crates: 0 Ships 33 more expensive dubloon big crates: 5 Ships

[@Desteroyah195]

The 'smoking gun' evidence would be getting an account that has no premium ships whatsoever, buying a crap load of Santa containers (up to 1000, more would strengthen the evidence even further), opening them one by one and selling any premium ship that drops. If the only ships this method would procure are shortlisted ships, then we have a clear evidence of a shortlist.

[@danbuter]

Why is anyone surprised by this? When are the US and EU going to crack down on online gambling in video games?

[@Just_A_Random_Desk]

5:37 good guy flolo

[@m3an]

There's nothing that says Happy Christmas like scamming your customers.

[@GrumpyIan]

I figured this was going to happen after the fiasco with WoTs not too long ago. They had loot boxes that costed $1 and you had a 'chance' to get a tank or crew xp booster, or junk that wasn't worth it.... you needed to dump minimally $50 before you even got tank (not even one of the good ones too) or crew xp booster.

[@williamgrand9724]

Wont be buying these anymore.

[@rocketfishx3474]

I literally got every ship on the short list. EVERY ship.

[@fanatik2134]

Hahahhahahahahahahhaha u could buy Cyperpunk on 4 days with this money

[@ronchabale]

Over the years I have blown away an insane amount of money on santa crates, early on I noticed that the good stuff (Kamikaze, Nikolai, Kutusov etc.) never dropped until all other (lesser) options had been obtained, same pattern every year, first I got 14 rubbish or mediocre ships and the 3 last ships are "rare" or "unobtainable". And so I had all the premiums, next year same pattern, 10-15 rubbish ships and Enterprize, Kaga and Benham last, once again I had all the premiums. Dunno if I will be getting any crates this year, have enough ships to last me a lifetime. Bit of advice and this will for sure save you a lot of money: If u want some "speshul" premium ship begin with buying ALL the ships in the premium shop, and yay you first santa crate ship drop will be a "speshul" ship