Explaining Joker X Harley

[@jknetwork6211]

“RIP Wonder Women fans…..you lost.” Most painful thing to say to a WW fan in this era

[@valentinkambushev4968]

@@jknetwork6211 I hate how right he is.

[@CrazyWhore116]

All hope is not lost, since I heard there's going to be a Wonder Woman video game coming out. Let's just pray and cross our fingers that it's a great one 🤞🏿☺️🤞🏿

[@falconeshield]

We literally have WW 2009, the 2017 movie, the iconic classic one with the invisible plane, Justice League WW from 20 years ago (ouch) and the parody one from the Harley Quinn show. That's it.

[@2gredvisions8560]

​​@@falconeshield There's also Wonder Woman from the DCAMU (specifically her film WW: Bloodlines), her prime featuring in both Injustice games and in the DCAU, and of course there's her in the Tomorrowverse films (though, I'd say she had more spotlight in the Justice Society WWII film and I guess in JL: Warworld). Aside from those specific occasions though, she usually has a minor feature in other DC animated works where she usually isn't the main focus 😅

[@Alf-gm7tf]

@crazywhore116 not if sweet baby inc is involved.

[@SammyRobinson62232]

My favorite version of Joker and Harley is from the Lego Batman movie Where Harley is less of his girlfriend and more of his girlFriend.

[@trika91]

Funny how the ‘child friendly media’ (Lego Batman & Batwheels) has made Joker and Harley’s relationship more wholesome/healthy, and that the two actually get along better as friends than lovers.

[@aicek]

​@@trika91batwheels Really exist?

[@hybridvenom9]

I also like Lego Batman

[@SammyRobinson62232]

@@hybridvenom9 The Lego Batman movie is like the gayest thing I seen so far when it comes to Batman and Jokers relationship

[@Umbra_Ursus]

She was just kinda cheerfully along for the ride. Mine is probably that Tell Tale version, because, if memory serves, it flipped the abuse-dynamic, and it was an interesting take.

[@Moonlight.Howlings.666]

Just because he loves her, doesn't make him less abusive. But then again, their relationship is always interesting to see and read about so who wants to walk on that?

[@valentinkambushev4968]

@@Moonlight.Howlings.666 too bad writers nowadays just skip it over.

[@anastasiazhdanova1578]

Joker doesn’t love Harley though.

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

​@@valentinkambushev4968 they decided to show Harley some respect by not writing torture porn for Harley

[@jamestolbert1856]

He doesn’t love her. He never loved her. He only saw her as a tool. A simp just so he can use her for his own villainous actions

[@hybridvenom9]

Your very right on that

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

The twisted relationship between Harley and the Joker in any Batman stories brings the whole new meaning of "Bad Romance". Harleen thinks she could fix him, but the Clown Prince of Crime is always "Born This Way".

[@sweets_Cat88]

Was that to imply lady Gaga who has a role in the new joker movie?

[@repulser93]

@@sweets_Cat88 Ironically, Gaga's Harley was closer to the Joker's role than Arthur was.

[@blackfox4138]

As a Tim Drake fan "cannibalized by his siblings" is the perfect way to describe the issues with his character.

[@Varian-le8hz]

Yummy siblings 😋

[@lauracerqueiramachado8979]

I think Tim could easily become popular if they had adapted his relationship with Stephanie Brown in the animated series or a movie

[@HaydrogenBomb]

Dude became so irrelevant they had to play the LGBTQ+ card. 😅

[@iceluvndiva21]

Honestly, he's still waaaaay more interesting than some of the later ones. Dude freaking CHOSE this life. He wasn't orphaned or had a massive chip or had some truely horrific means of how he came into the world.

[@deandredukes95]

Many people get into a relationship as a way to compensate for something they lack or hate within themselves. This is a one-way ticket to a toxic relationship because it makes your love conditional - you will love your partner as long as they help you feel better about yourself.

[@christopherbennett5858]

And then, when that thing isn’t making you feel good about yourself anymore because it’s an underlying condition, you instead blame them, thinking that they’re not doing it for you anymore. And there’s really nothing there truly making you happy because you entered it out of a need to have a hole filled in your heart. And, because some people think ending a relationship that you’re not into is letting… someone down, they stay in it. And get bitter.

[@ageves8487]

True, and it's usually unintentional, two opposing and traumatized brains seem to find each other, a perfect mirror for what wasn't provided for them in childhood, and is now missing in adulthood, perfectly reflected in each other. 😞 It's an extremely difficult cycle to break, depending on the severity, but it's possible. With a lot of new knowledge, inner work, and seeking the right help, one can balance the scales of their heart again. ❤️

[@christopherbennett5858]

@@ageves8487 Absolutely. The problem is that it takes a lot of effort for someone to realise and admit that something is wrong. As one of my favourite reviewers once put it, you’ll never see the mind work more beautifully than when it’s trying to deny that something is wrong. And, in the case of Joker and Harley, because the Joker will never admit he’s wrong and hates the idea of being the person being laughed at than at with, he’s not going to stop. So, the focus has to be on Harley realising that.

[@AceHufflepuff]

I think this has a rather simple answer. She fits the "I can fix him" trope down to the T. She looks at an obviously bad guy, thinks given her profession she can change these types of people. As Olivia Benson once said "But you didn't make him good. He made you bad."

[@valentinkambushev4968]

@@AceHufflepuff in the end of the day, she never stopped being his psychiatrist.

[@AceHufflepuff]

@@valentinkambushev4968 bingo.

[@Lorasbrother34]

​@@valentinkambushev4968no it's not the problem with that is that she doesn't see what he's doing is wrong she helps him with his plans and support him every step of the way and doesn't feel any remorse of what she is doing so what in that speaks"I can fix him"for you

[@Lorasbrother34]

No he didn't turn her bad she was already what she is batman in mad love said it best "Harley Quinn was never an angel" she was an incompetent psychiatrist who delusion herself that she loves jokey and he simply took advantage of her she always came back to him simply because she is too stupid to know that he is using her

[@AceHufflepuff]

​@Lorasbrother34 the original meaning of "i can fix him" is this: Character A is very attractive or has power or something that draws in Character B. Character A has a ton of baggage, is very problematic, aggressive has unalived people, and all around not good. Character B looks at all of that baggage and goes "on GOD they're so attractive" and looks the other way, turns a blind eye to character A's horrid nature. Tldr; "i can fix him" means "when I date him, he'd EVENTUALLY change his ways cause he loves me." How is that NOT Harley Quinn and The Joker?

[@Leviathan-76]

Hot take their relationship was the best in Lego Batman movie

[@TheLiverThief]

She was like the gay best friend

[@aaunyea4799]

Yeah, my favorite artist representation of them is they are gay bestfriends, and Joker helped bring out her wild personality

[@carelessdreamer]

They’re gay besties in opposite directions. Probably their healthiest dynamic.

[@TheLiverThief]

@@carelessdreamer not only healthiest but honestly most entertaining

[@pedanticat9479]

Is that really a hot take when it's the truth?

[@toganium4175]

Glad to see the thumbnail acknowledge the existence of Harleen, the best Harley Quinn comic story ever.

[@BMcCosmic]

Harleen is the best comic I've ever read. I wish Stjepan was able to do his Ivy comic too

[@BrandonScott-mi5pz]

EXCELLENT WORK. SARCASTIC CHORUS JOKER X HARLEY QUINN THE WORST RELATIONSHIP 😈😈😈☠️😈😈😈😈☣️☣️☣️☣️☣️😈😈😈😈💀😈☣️☣️☣️☣️☣️☣️🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡😈😈😈

[@elizabethsullivan7021]

If I'm remembering correctly, there's also a comic where Joker realizes he DOES love Harley after all. And then he puts her on a rocket to explode in space because he really can't have anybody he actually cares about lol

[@BlueBlazeKing]

19:03 Pretty much Tim’s origin is impossible to adopt as you need Dick and Jason to do it. Jason’s death causes Batman to wild out and become more ruthless in his war against crime with Tim being able to recognize Nightwing as Dick based in a complex acrobatic stunt the two pulled, leading to Tim figuring out Batman’s identity and becoming Robin to mellow him out. It’s not easy to adapt live action adaptation are too scared to give us Grayson

[@gregvs.theworld451]

It doesn't help that Grayson and Jason's origins are also in a weird spot. It kind of feels like they gave Damian the trained as a ruthless assassin backstory to make Batman seem good and virtuous and mellow by comparison turning him into Robin. I think the concept of adopting an orphan then training them to fight murderous criminals hasn't aged the best, and an adaption of that played straight might have audiences asking if Batman is actually a great good guy here.

[@ligtningdog6399]

@@gregvs.theworld451 The thing with Damian was that it was shortcut. Kind of like how in DBZ Gohan, Goten and any other kid Z fighter is just born with so much hidden powers. Damian being a trained-from-birth assassin just covers all the busy work of explaining how a 10 year old can keep up with experienced fighters.

[@alorapendrak9752]

@@gregvs.theworld451 Which is ironic because in Damien's origin comic Batman is kinda terrible to him. granted its hard to blame him since Damien is the result of Batman's body being grossly violated by Talia. So of course he's super uncomfortable about the whole thing. But it does feel like Batman lashes out at Damien a lot and tries to control him and to be fair some of this is because Damien is kind of a sociopath. But Batman mostly just screams at him they don't do that and never tries to explain. But fans seem to ignore the fact that run had batman disappear for a while. So Damien could be co-parented by Dick and Alfred and the only reason they get along. Was because Dick did all the work of parenting batman's child. personally batman using orphans to fight criminals never bothered me. It makes sense someone that dysfunctional whose coping mechanism was to fight crime for his parents death. Would project that onto every child. I also think audiences have this weird expectation that Batman as a hero means he's a good father. Which no I'm sorry he's never been. I think even some of Dick's worst issues can be traced back to bruce's not great parenting.

[@starcatcher9405]

@@alorapendrak9752 well Bruce might be terrible to him but remember that Damian didn't become Robin until Dick had to be Batman. So technically "Batman" does end up looking good and virtuous and mellow by comparison for making an assassin child Robin and looking after him... by comparison to Bruce who "trained orphans" for this lol. It just kinda contributes to Bruce looking bad unfortunately. Though tbh while he might never have been the greatest parent, they made him significantly worse post-crisis. (& specifically they made his relationship with Dick worse and then it just snowballed from there) Just compare how Dick leaving Robin & becoming Nightwing plays out in both continuities: In pre-crisis it's very amicable, Dick leaves on his own because the name of Robin is associated with being a sidekick & he wants to grow up, the name Nightwing is supposed to *honor* Batman (because initially it was something Superman came up with as a tribute to Batman, so by taking it on Dick is playing a tribute to the both of them). Meanwhile post-crisis: Bruce fires Dick for a superficial reason (and then makes an even younger and less trained child Robin because he's having empty nest syndrome) & Dick takes on a kryptonian name he learned from Superman (maybe it's just me but feels like a f u to Bats idk).

[@starcatcher9405]

I think additional issue with Tim's origin is that if you want it to be close to canon, you need to accept that Bats will not come out of it looking good. (Worse than with Jason & Dick even, even though Tim's not an orphan) Two things: 1) Suspension of disbelief. When D & J become Robins, you don't have to comment on how weird it is that children fight crime, or how dangerous it is or anything. Just don't bring attention to it. It's just a universe where this is normal & you can assume nothing bad would happen to them. Batman doesn't look like a bad person because Robin is there. But with Tim... It's already a universe where a child sidekick could die. Where one of them *did* die. Taking on a new one... does not make Bats look good. 2) Tim's reason for becoming Robin inherently sets up an unhealthy dynamic. Sure Tim is a great kid who wants to make the world a better place & everything... But mainly he's here because "Batman needs a Robin". Because Batman needs someone to stop him from flying off the handle. And Tim volunteers to be that person. Even in a world where child sidekicks are perfectly normal & won't get injured or traumatized, it's still bad. Something like that should never be a child's responsibility. It doesn't just reflect bad on Bruce but on everyone else who allowed this to happen, like Dick and Alfred. So it becomes a choice of having Batman (& a lot of his allies) be morally questionable or changing/not including Tim's origin or Tim himself.

[@valentinkambushev4968]

I hate how often writers just skip Harley and the Joker's toxic relationship. In my opinion, her relationship with Ivy (even though I have some major problems with that ship) works better if we know how miserable she was with the Joker.

[@TheLiverThief]

What are your problems with them? I’m interested in hearing another perspective.

[@valentinkambushev4968]

@@TheLiverThief My biggest problem is that Ivy nowadays feels like an accessory to Harley. I feel like every time Ivy appears nowadays, it has something to do with Harley, even when they are not a couple. I also hate how she was essentially turned into an anti-hero. People complain about Batman not having enough female villains. Well, stop redeeming his already existing ones!

[@statixfear]

@@valentinkambushev4968 I do agree that they need to do more with Ivy... but I honestly can't blame the writers for how she's turned out, even in multiple past interpretations. I've always found her to belong to the B-tier of villains, not really having much going on outside of her femme fatale personality paired with her powers/mutation. All of that slowly changed once Harley came into the picture. For better or for worse, both these characters will forever be tied together, in one way or another.

[@faith4657]

Which sucks, I always liked the white knight run. Joker actually wants to get better, and Harley is just leaving him after she can't help him.

[@christopherbennett5858]

@@statixfearNot to mention, Ivy is tied to a real world issue; environmental activism and eco terrorism. Which, depending on the writer and adaptation, can make her more or less morally dubious. And that’s always going to have some bias since DC comics is a company that deals in paper. So there’s going attitudes to that. So, much like characters like Magneto, Poison Ivy has a thing that makes many want to portray her in a more heroic light.

[@LivingFire_BurningFlame]

Actually there was a comic where the Joker actually had feelings for Harley but he said they were a distraction so he tried to kill her so technically he did love her!

[@TheLastSkyfarer]

I think he tied her to a rocket Looney Tune style

[@Venom_eddie123]

That was her actual comic debut in no man's land

[@saidi7975]

ah yes, good times XD

[@ebonyblack4563]

Recovery from abuse is also similar to a redemption arc, the coping mechanisms and habits picked up can make a person distant and cruel, overcoming that brings compassion and kindness for fellow broken things that can make for a hero.

[@gamerguy19981]

Personally I think the Injustice version of Harley is my favorite just because of a conversation she has with Wonder Woman in Injustice 2. Harley admits her faults and accepts responsibility for the things she did while with Joker. But she also acknowledges how she has changed for the better since she started work with Batman and is even willing to fight Wonder Woman to prove it.

[@Beriorn]

I'm not a fan of Harley in the anti-hero role, she killed way too many people for that. I don't _need_ her by the Joker's side per say, just don't have her go "oh woe is me mistah J made me kill all those kids" and use what Joker did to her as an excuse to do more terrible things. Either owe up to it or shrug it off, don't hide behind what the evil clown man did.

[@CreativelyBankrupt-gc4dw]

True. I’m tired of people and writers justifying Harley’s actions by saying joker forced her. She made the decision to become his partner in crime literally without him persuading her or seducing her, she knew the Joker was a psychopath and assisted him with his countless murder with a smile and laughter yet we’re supposed to forgive her because she was abused by the person she knew was a monster. Abuse is a horrible thing to happen to someone because it can cause a lot of harm to the victim but she herself also caused so much harm to people by destroying buildings and taking away innocent lives leaving their families devastated and depressed. And it doesn’t help that she did this while being fully aware of her actions. I don’t know if many people know this but before the Joker was a psychopath, he was just a thief who stole money. He wasn’t threatening people, killing innocent for laughs or committing horrible crimes, he was just a thief but when he got dunked in the chemicals, he became an entirely different person and the real him was gone forever. The Joker himself is not even the real person but a fucked up persona that was created due to the chemicals he was dunked in but Harley is totally different. She wasn’t brainwashed or anything, she just decided to be a criminal in her right mind and yet we’re supposed to feel bad. In the animated series, she was handled so much better because she was actually redeemable but in the comics, after all she did, her redemption came out as forced, unnecessary and boring and it’s why people want her to become a villain again.

[@nicholasaugello2534]

I'm not against her changing her ways but the one thing I can say is Harley Quinn should've tried to do better sooner. But Batman believes ALL of his rouges can someday atleast get to Harley Quinn's level of being actually a decent person deep deep down.

[@misterOrca4]

That's why I literally can't stand Harley Quinn anymore. They are trying so hard to make her own unique character by trying to make her a Protagonist but she is beyond redemption and her constant pushing away from joker is getting repetitively annoying. I mean if they want to make a story about a broken hero or protagonist, they literally got Red Hood who is pretty much an unrestrained version of Batman.

[@efce]

I actually really like her in an anti-hero role, imo it really shows why batman doesn't kill, how some people just need help

[@WaggishChit]

I personally like the couple as an on and off again dumpster fire. It was fun and sad and most importantly a CAUTIONARY TALE.

[@violetwitch9948]

the only time these two actually not "toxic" couple is from The Batman 2004 version, Lego Batman Movie and in the Batman/TMNT crossover. in that crossover, Joker and Harley relationship look like a casual couple banter while in the The Batman 2004, Joker actually enjoy having Harley because for the first time ever, he has someone who is crazy as him. Last time he try to have a sidekick (A.K.A. Prank) end up rejecting his way of having "fun". Harley in that version however already love the crazy way of life that Joker have that she don't even need to get throw into that toxic pit...

[@ashesGeek]

Besides, even when she gets in jail for the first time being abandoned at least she knows her pudding would save her. This interpretation definitely has one of the best true Joker/Harley romances.

[@rosemary3029]

The 2004 batman is severely underrated

[@valentinkambushev4968]

Good thing Harley moved on from this psychopath and is now dating a hot plant psychotic lady who hates humans.... Wait a minute...

[@JinxSanity]

Oh it gets worse in the Harley Quinn show, where Harley ends up having more reckless behavior to the point she gets Darkseid's parademons to violently murder a large portion of Gotham City.... All because she wanted to prove how bad she is because she didn't want to confess her feelings for Ivy 💀 Ladies and gentlemen DC's most celebrated lesbian couple! 🤡🤡

[@angeloalvarez5520]

​​​​​@@JinxSanityThat kind of chaos is a common occurrence in DC media. I'm not gonna judge DC animated comedy characters by the same standards I'd judge a character in a more grounded show, or someone irl. This show doesn't take itself very seriously so I'm not going to either

[@christopherbennett5858]

@@JinxSanityMarvel and DC love their violent lesbian villain couples , don’t they? As well as the Brain and Mallah.

[@MAFDOMiNUS]

Surpsingly accurate as most reciprocated domestic abuse cases are between lesbian couples... what did DC mean by this?

[@emptyteardrops]

@@MAFDOMiNUS I really wish you guys would actually READ the article instead of just playing a game of telephone. Because it makes it sound like every lesbian relationship is a toxic abusive cesspool. I read the CDC report linked through the HRC article. If I understood correctly, while it is true that lesbians experienced intimate partner violence at a higher rate than straight women, a significant proportion of the perpetrators were male. This makes sense to me. There are lots of lesbians who have relationships with men at various points in their life - late blooming lesbians are a good example. Lesbian Women in heterosexual relationships would be at similar risk of IPV, but because of questioning their sexuality it could make them at increased risk of abuse or in remaining in an abusive relationship. Of course, I am not denying that domestic abuse in lesbian relationships doesn’t happen. I just don’t like how people twisted the articles words to make it seem like domestic abuse was the most common between lesbian rather than AGAINST lesbians which is what the statistics were about in the first place.

[@justwolf3937]

Okay one thing I need to disagree on, Tim Drake does have a hook, it's the fact he's basically young Bruce without the trauma hammer instilling such a profound sense of justice in him, he literally became Robin because he was a bored rich kid who stalked Batman since the Dick Grayson era and pulled together who Batman was, he basically saw a grief stricken old man still reeling from the death of Jason Todd and Blackmailed this guy into getting weapons and tech, there's a reason that in every universe where Bruce Bites It Tim either becomes the next batman or a supervillain with little to no in between

[@gokbay3057]

Tim probably is the best suited of the Robins to become Batman, not only because of all his similarities but also the fact that Dick and Jason have already made their names under different identities (even after graduating from being Robin Tim remained Red Robin, which is barely any different).

[@Anyusername-o2e]

She even got her own comic explaining her and two faces lore, it’s so well detailed too it’s what got me into her 😭

[@nicholasaugello2534]

Wonder woman getting out shined by Kite man is fucking hilarious, and Robbin thought he had it bad 🤣

[@nicholasaugello2534]

Atleast she got her very own movie, and someday she'll get a new Video game, still hilarious that Kite man got an animated series before Wonder woman 🤣

[@LisaNaniOfficial]

While I am so happy Jason got another resurgence as "the Robin who died and came back", I am so sad it might have come at the cost of Tim's robin. Damien just swooped in and made us forget about Tim 😭

[@DiamondsRexpensive]

Dr Drakken and Shego are Villians, but they actually like each other.

[@justjoannak]

Yay, another Kim Possible fan! Drakken & Shego do that dynamic so well

[@Canonicallycreative]

I think Harley’s moral greyness is also a big part of her appeal. She’s a character with great potential for both good and for evil, and even she doesn’t always seem to know which side she’ll favour more and that makes her fascinating to watch. Not a fan of HarleyxJoker, but you’re not wrong that it makes for a good origin story, though I feel like the way the Harley Quinn show handled it was the smart way, treating it as an origin story, and her attachment to the Joker as a vice Harley needed to overcome to grow.

[@greywolf7577]

She started out more as a side kick with a crush on Joker rather than as an actual girlfriend. I obviously have some nostalgia for this version of her.

[@sammcfarlane2494]

If we were 30 years in the past and you said that Harley Quinn would be this popular, I’d think the same way.

[@Jonathan_Collins]

Of course abuse is abuse - but this is the Joker. The feeling of love and affection overwhelms him and manifests itself into aggression. He can't help it. Sadly, that's who he is. Man, I just find Harley and the Joker's sickening and toxic relationship so interesting.

[@valentinkambushev4968]

@@Jonathan_Collins You are not going to make me feel sorry for that monster no matter how hard you try.

[@JinxSanity]

This is the same guy who in many adaptations, shot and then sexually violated Barbara Gordon by undressing her and taking pictures of her bloody naked body. You are not gonna make me feel sorry for a psychopath like that no matter how misunderstood you make him out to be. Mad Love was this EXACT argument your making for it him and that story shows why you're wrong cause in the end the Joker only loves himself and his obsession will always be Batman.

[@valentinkambushev4968]

@@JinxSanity not to mention killing a teenage boy. Him coming back to life doesn't fix that.

[@DanialTarki]

Oh, hello, Leg Oh She

[@JinxSanity]

​@@valentinkambushev4968 Don't forget how he tortured Robin in Batman Beyond - Return Of The Joker. Horrifying how he did for WEEKS and disfigured him with the Toxic chemicals that it drove him insane and it took years to finally heal Tim. Even with that, his body was a vessel for the Joker's DNA chip which again shows he had no qualms about body violation.

[@AhmedHussain-ju6xd]

Love it or hate it, We can all agree that they are iconic

[@clarenceandgennymcneil251]

Calling the Joker a “narcissistic primadonna” made my day😂

[@starcatcher9405]

Honestly I don't find their relationship "interesting" or "fascinating" because I could almost never buy that Joker actually likes her & doesn't just enjoy having someone he can order around and treat horribly but who would still be loyal to him no matter what. If he actually liked her but was still horrible, then you'd have something to chew on.

[@ButtoneyeDecker]

The one place where that was the case was in the mainstream continuity when her creator (Paul Dini) was writing comics. He set them up as an actual, (still toxic tho) couple and it did go thru some developments (they’re mostly relegated to the background however) I remember in one story, they’re looking for the Jokers plans for a massacre but they only find scribbles he left behind and it’s mostly violence and comedy stuff he drew on the walls, but he also drew a big, pretty detailed picture of Harley surrounded by hearts but also stuck with knives. The main conflict between them in the origin comic he wrote for her intro to the mainstream was that he returned her feelings and couldn’t stand it, it being so foreign to him, but also he admits to her he genuinely enjoyed being with her. Kind of begs the question if that version of their relationship is abusive just because the Joker is a bastard (well, yeah.) or is because she’s pulled something from him he doesn’t get and can’t control and is lashing out? I agree their relationship really isn’t interesting most of the time, but there was some attempt at making it more there.

[@BrandonJames2016]

Bc it’s an interesting dynamic where we clearly see only one loves the other while the other is clearly used as a tool all the time. To see how that is shown over the course of time if Harley will ever get over the joker.

[@iSmartMan1]

I always thought the Suicide Squad movie depiction was less of a loving relationship and more of a mutual fetish.

[@Venom_eddie123]

Now, do one on the couple people actually like shipping ( Venom symbiote x eddie )

[@Mariasouza-um8cx]

Up👍

[@Anelkia]

Omg

[@Anelkia]

You're a genius

[@GoodWitchKirby]

Yes

[@NicoleFlores-hq5nh]

Yes

[@Austin_Soares]

I see it as the comic book equivalent of Sid and Nancy with a bit of Bonnie and Clyde. From Syd and Nancy it was that typical bad boy mystique and alure as well as the relationship being toxic as Hell and from Bonnie and Clyde the criminal element. Its my guess why we're still enraptured by it so I may be wrong.

[@bradleybourgeois4710]

I personally think Harley is at her best when she is with the Joker, like in Batman the Animated Series, The Batman the Arkhamverse. This is because while I get that people would love for a person to get out of toxic relationship and improve themselves, but what tends to be forgotten or ignored Is that Harley was never a good person. In the BTAs, she slept with her professors to graduate and when she wanted to write a tell-all book about the Arkham inmates. Arkhamverse Harley was a corrupt psychiatrist who blackmailed the Warren into working with the more notorious inmates, possibly for the same reason as the BTAS Harley. The Batman Harley was a TV Psychiatrist more concerned about the ratings of her show and being famous rather than helping people. I feel that the point is that she was a bad woman made worse by the Joker’s influence. I’m not against Harley being portrayed in a sympathetic manner, but I’d love to see something that re-explores this dynamic.

[@thesandwich5321]

One of your most comprehensive videos to date imo. Been following you for a few years and honestly the work you put in is crazy. Anyway, I really liked this one. Take care of yourself.

[@randomotakunerd]

Maybe my memory is wrong, but I think The Batman (2004) animated series might be the only time Joker and Harley don't have an inherently toxic or abusive relationship. Again, could be wrong, but it is interesting if that's the case and they decided to change it up a bit.

[@anastasiazhdanova1578]

He left her to die in the fire in 2004 Batman show😬

[@starcatcher9405]

It's still toxic as hell but at least there I could buy that he actually likes her & spending time with her instead of just enjoying having a hot accessory that he can order around... He just still doesn't like her enough to not be a piece of shit to her

[@djmeagaaim17]

Yeah, but she was also just a side character in that show with only one focused episode on her. After that, she is basically just a background character.

[@randomotakunerd]

@@anastasiazhdanova1578 Oh lol I don’t even remember that, I see your point tho

[@Lorasbrother34]

@@randomotakunerd white knight comics they are healthy with them marrying each other even

[@mikhaelgribkov4117]

By the way, there's one point that is often missed about Mad Love: it was originally one shot comic by Paul Dini (her creator) which then was adapted into show years later. And there's one change which highly changes reading of Harley's character: in the comic there's scene where Batman checks docs and says that she wasn't angel and how she come far through gymnastic scholarship, but wanted degree in psychology and so seduced teacher to get higher grades and Alfred said that she would be "annoying pop psychologist" if not meeting the Joker. This part was omitted in the episode, probably censors, and since she was written as someone who actually studied to get degree, but got too attached instead of being Jessica meme.

[@ambermillerrr]

i prefer harley actually being intelligent ngl

[@mikhaelgribkov4117]

@@ambermillerrr fair enough, I just think it is interesting bit of history.

[@electrobob992]

Really depends on which version of it. Some instances had it be more of a loving relationship. Take "The Batman" series, where Joker was dressed in a straitjacket and voiced by Kevin Micheal Richardson. In that one.. Harley was already evil and wasn't a therapist but a showhost if I recall. Either way she did shady things to get higher ratings, they were just too crazies in love there.

[@Delightningsh33p]

SARCASTIC CHORUS, MAKE A TIERLIST OF HARLEYXJOKER HEALTHIEST TO TOXIC AND MY LIFE IS YOURS!!

[@taraphillips4059]

I literally threw my hands up in excitement when i read the title and saw you posted this

[@viheart]

We need a Harley Quinn x Poison Ivy video next to balance things out.

[@carafurry7862]

The thumbnail: toxic love My brain: "Ooh you'll love my (ah-oh-ah) toxic love" -Hexxus

[@8393Robertrex]

0:28 Its really clear tbh, that we arent obsessed with harley and the joker at all. harley isnt a comic character. Yet since her introduction shes been in, almost everything Including being put in the comics. We dont want Harley and the joker We want * Harley * And like batmans parents and spidermans uncle...

[@Netherwolf6100]

I Ship Bruce and Harley. Sounds like an old wacky couple who'd constantly get on each other's nerves, but have each other's best interests at heart. Plus I'm a sucker for redeemable victims who try to atone for their past crimes.

[@POP-nm1ix]

I get the feeling you're gonna love The White Knight series.

[@Necro-xy5ej]

saaaame kind of a shame that's it's such a rare couple though, even in fanfictions

[@Hanmacx]

There are some interesting Harley x Nightwing scenes 😅

[@greywolf7577]

But why is it that most of the "bad guys turned good" in the Batman world seem to be women?

[@Necro-xy5ej]

@@greywolf7577 honestly good point...mr.freeze is like the best candidate for it but the writers just don't wanna resolve his problem hell Batman could probably resolve it easily if they just let him use his brain when it comes to freeze

[@white0thunderwhite0thunder71]

Ironically my mother's favorite pairing of the Joker and Harley was in the Suicide Squad movie. This is because of when the Joker had surrounded himself with the things he loved while demanding his minions to find Harley. He was encircled by knives, guns, explosives, and tucked away in a quarter of the circle was baby cloths and other child related things. This scene showed that not only did this interpretation of the Joker genuinely loves Harley but also that he wanted to have a family with her. A clear separation from most other versions of the clown prince of crime but that what makes it unique and a pity that most don't care to explore a genuine relationship between two disturbing characters.

[@tomaetoma359]

I’m sure he loves Harley… enough, but he definitely loves Batman more 😂

[@marymagdalenedevout]

Yes, my view is the same 😅

[@elchompi12rewind27]

The only time their relationship wasn't toxic or abusive, was in the 2004 cartoon. Where the Joker geniually cares for her

[@rainbowtoyfunrandomess1982]

Don't forget The Lego Batman Movie.

[@elchompi12rewind27]

@@rainbowtoyfunrandomess1982 too but they we're more as Best Friend who support eachother

[@rainbowtoyfunrandomess1982]

@@elchompi12rewind27 That's true.

[@rorylori]

yesss now i will patiently wait for your harley x ivy vid

[@williamleonardreesejr.1992]

Before watching the video: Because they’re a genuinely fun dynamic between Minion and Boss and also how fucked that could be as well as how romantic depending on the many many many versions After: Oh hey I actually got it, but worded it less good then the video did which also explained it better.

[@sparxstreak02]

15:51 It always baffled me so much that the Joker could be a decent & actually loving partner to ANYONE, given his treatment of Harley & I wondered if it worked out due to the fact that his relationship with Bethany started with him being under amnesia when they met & forming their relationship without his baggage or craziness & if that all would’ve worked had he been full on Joker when they crossed paths, but who knows? 🤷‍♀️

[@adamnapolitano432]

I'll say the The Batman version has the only Joker that legitimately feels like he truly reciprocates caring for Harley.

[@MaddTheGoblin]

how dare youtube hide this from me for 15 secs

[@krishnagupta8503]

Truth be told, I wouldn't be surprised if in the future them breaking off will become the new norm. Like Harley and Joker will not even be shown in relationship on screen because everyone just expects them to have broke up

[@faithmystery4441]

There's been a few series (even the 2004 one did it I think) where it already shows different origins for Harley that are nearly or completely separate from Joker. There's likely either to be a complete rewrite of her origins (hopefully done tastefully) or just vague mentions of their relationship for explanations sake.

[@krishnagupta8503]

@@faithmystery4441 I actually like Harley's Current Origin because it shows how anyone, even psychiatrist, who should know better, can fall in the deep rabbit hole of obsession

[@devinpaul9026]

As far as I'm concerned, "the character" is as her original depiction had her. She was equally as insane, fun, and self searching IN that depiction as she is now-- ONLY ACTUALLY DONE WELL.

[@xenon333]

Came here fresh off watching Isekai, and I gotta tell you, this couple is electric. They just have so much fun wrecking everything that you can't help but admire them. I think that's the key to their popularity - the overwhelming fun and freedom.

[@cuttlefjord]

it's been so long since you've touched on Phineas and Ferb but I'm drunk at 5:30 in the morning watching it and I would like to request an in-depth analysis of Linda and Lawrence's relationship. I honestly think it's one of the best examples of a wholesome, healthy, adult, mixed-family relationship. between their relationship with each other and each other's kids, I cannot find a single complaint. I've been rewatching the series recently and gained a deeper appreciation, as an adult that grew up in a mixed family, for the portrail of their relationship, but I'd like to hear about it from your perspective as well!

[@ChandawilaArts]

I’ve found that the Harley character feels very human and everyone can relate to sticking around to a toxic relationship or situation but through friendship finds a new life even in villainy or anti hero life

[@George_M_]

Most people have more toxic than healthy relationships, I think. So they relate, especially to Harley.

[@seeleunit2000]

Indeed

[@lostboysonce3133]

Love how we all agree that the LEGO versions of the characters are the healthiest

[@Emmetlovesredvelvet13]

It's the same reason I like chucky and Tiffany's dynamic as another example it's a toxic relationship between two serial killers betrayal is just foreplay to their relationship

[@pumpkincat3739]

We do?

[@cupidhearts2000]

Help I said the same thing outloud 😭😭

[@jaycolus3893]

I was celebrating his bilingualism for a second there. He was speaking French, right?

[@cipherbunz2612]

i literally went like "who's we??" ASJFHSKAJJS

[@Lorasbrother34]

@@pumpkincat3739 I do the white knight version

[@FlameRaven]

rip to the people who won't get this comment anymore

[@Mariasouza-um8cx]

I don't ship it, if they were both equally awful to eachother then I think it would be a more interesting and entertainment dynamic for me, like can you imagine a Harley that matchs Joker's madness, but since it's always the Joker treating Harley horrible and her just taking it, it's just becomes very repetitive and sad.😕

[@darknessrising2453]

12:05 Harley: “I can fix him.” Joker: “I’mma make her worse.”

[@metermaide1726]

the best stories are when its after she gains her independence, siren arc, the story where she is room mates/girlfriends with powergirl, her character is so flexible, i think that is part of the reason why she has been so indomitable.

[@james739123]

I myself like anti-hero Harley and prefer HarleyXIvy, but like all media, it has to be written by competent people who respect what came before and acknowledges both their strengths and weaknesses.

[@twinodoom]

The Batman's Joker and Harley was the most wholesome Harley Quinn and Joker relationship out there

[@blueraccoon1088]

5:46 I may speak Spanish but even I don't see myself say those words

[@Jo11ity]

What did she say.?

[@Ebuggs12]

@@Jo11ityI personally can’t translate it one to one but I’ve def heard that before from my family members in Mexico when they get mad lmaoo

[@blueraccoon1088]

Like i said I won't say those words. And if anyone replies what she said I'm deleting this comment

[@blueraccoon1088]

​@ebuggs1235 you said it.

[@literaltrash5189]

​@@blueraccoon1088Damn it was really that bad?

[@رزيئة]

You should've delved into the Batman the Telltale Serie: The Enemy Within adaptation of these two, where the roles are reversed and it's very interesting. The whole Joker only loved Batman thing is also present in it. But Harley is the one using Joker, and he's the victim if you will.

[@FaizeofMist]

There were two things I remembered from Batman animated growing up: The VHS preview to the Mr Freeze movie And Harley’s Holiday. Growing up I didn’t follow DC or Marvel until my friend started to re-engage with. Including not following the Dark Knight movies. That one episode colored my perception of Harley just doing her best, and Bruce was the goodest of beans.

[@SeanMelendez-df3zg]

I always thought the reason why Harley Quinn got so popular was so DC could have their own silly comic book character going on wacky wild adventures that could make them more successful in the same fashion that Marvel has with Deadpool?

[@usmansubhani7482]

Jokers and Harleys relationship are like King Arthur. Good concept and execution depends on the writer.

[@badgerbee8563]

As a huge Tim Drake fan I was so hyped you mentioned him… which says a lot about how little attention he gets🥲😅🤣! I feel like the writers forget all his dope traits and neglect him (just like his parents) because like you said: his siblings overshadow him. Which I’m sad about all the time but at least I can read/write fanfic

[@squarepotatoes]

Oh yessssss I saw this pop up and I am so ready to watch it during my workout (when I watch the most interesting videos so I don't stop)

[@lovelydawl]

god i loved birds of prey. i had that movie on repeat😭

[@wolfbloodklaw7810]

Thank you for giving "Birds of Prey" the love it deserves

[@Jane_8319]

Reject Harley x Joker and Batman x female super villain, embrace Harley x Ivy and Batman x Joker

[@EsfingeCinza]

Who out There ACTUALLY REALLY FOR REAL shipp this?... Like... . . . Joker Only loves Batman-

[@MAFDOMiNUS]

Is there a lore reason for Jonkler being gay? Is he a herterosexual?

[@Lorasbrother34]

@@MAFDOMiNUS it's not really love but obsession of a rival batman it's his wing his complete opposite and each story detected differently

[@EdnaKonrad4MVS]

In 'Emperor Joker' (both the original, and the 'Batman: The Brave and the Bold' episode), this ends up becoming a major plot point; no matter how many times Joker kills Batman, for all his infinite reality-warping power he can't get rid of him because, without Batman as his intellectual equal, The Joker is just a man dressed as a clown. In the original story, Joker's every attempt to put Batman down for good after this revelation just results in him subconsciously creating *more* of him.

[@nicholasaugello2534]

It's an obsession not love

[@gokbay3057]

@@MAFDOMiNUS It is not sexual Joker is just simply too obsessed with him. Batman can exist without Joker, Joker (in the modern conception rather than the original "criminal dressed like a clown") cannot exist without Batman (unlike most of Batman's villains).

[@TheCommenterDragon]

I ship Harlivy. Joker never cared about Harley, He only ever saw her as someone he could manipulate and or as just a minion. And I can't believe it took Harley so long to realize that in many adaptations of Batman.

[@ashesGeek]

To be fair, 2004 show Joker truly loved Harley and treated her like a queen, she wasn't even suffering being around him since she was just as crazy. I only ship them in this show, other than that Harley deserves much better.

[@falconeshield]

And Harley IS a villain so her dating Ivy does make sense.

[@MAFDOMiNUS]

Eh, I never liked Harley x Ivy. Poison Ivy can be as bad as Joker yet for some reason Harley ends up in a relationship with her and it's somehow healthier? It ended up becoming a generic couple that wasn't interesting to begin with. Part of what made Harley so interesting was the tragedy in how she ended up. Take that away and you just have female Deadpool.

[@Lorasbrother34]

​@@MAFDOMiNUSand why people think she deserves better she is as bad as both so she doesn't deserve anything healthy at least her and mr j were fun to watch because we know they are toxic but her and ivy they are toxic but people try to sugar coded

[@DDarkestKnight]

​@@MAFDOMiNUSNo such thing as being as bad as the Joker when you can fill a book of all the terrible things Joker's done, including to Ivy. This is a woman perfectly capable of wiping the human race and all it takes is a word, look or even the thought of killing Harley would stop her. Joker wouldn't even do that for Harley. Also shows how little you know about the tragedy of Deadpool's life. We're past Harley's tragic era, now it's Winning Time.

[@toxicpancakes]

16:19 IVE NEVER SEEN THIS TEEN TITANS GO CLIP BEFORE BRUH

[@thetrunkmonkey6151]

i saw shirts at a mall that said “his harley” and “her joker” and like. you’re taking a lot of risks if you’re a couple that wears those shirts

[@robloxgirlwithadog]

Thank you to the BTAS team for keeping Harley alive for her design

[@mysteryxio9957]

I'd like to see a multiverse moment between two Harleys one who is in a loving relationship with Joker and one who isn't to see how'd they'd interact with each other

[@GiulianaBruna]

I have been a Harley fan since my early teens (and I'm old) and I'm kinda cringing at my fav being discussed in main media now. But this analysis of the situation is great

[@NaviRyan]

It’s pretty much every relationship that everyone on the outside know isn’t going to work and is bad, but can’t help but get interested as they know it’ll end in disaster.

[@siris202]

First!!! 💚💜 Also, lovely videos and greetings from germany!

[@iceluvndiva21]

"RIP wonder woman fans cuz...ya lost." I mean... When every other version of her is either a hypocrite who will goes tyrant just to bang superman or just eye candy with a body count? Yeah it's not hard to see why her popularity is sinking faster than the titanic on steroids. RIP to anyone who ships batman or superman with this hypocritical timebomb. I mean bitch wasn't even TRYING to hide her lust when Lois was officially dead. She gets pissy when someone calls her out for what she's doing. When she and superman can rival Joker and Quinn? That's just unsettling in so many ways. So yeaaah... I'll gladly take HarlyIvy, BatCat, RichKori, RavenRoreck, or any other of the infinity BETTER DC couples anyday of the damn weak.

[@InRealTime769]

I always liked that the Joker was this simple to understand force of absolute chaos, and Harley was the complex mix of self discovery, empowerment, sexuality, abuse, and also chaos. The foiling is whats interesting to me more than anything

[@pygmytyrantking3153]

"I drank you like the cure but you were the poison all along"

[@Pomnitheclown]

The Batman 2004 is the best joker x Harley media ever change my mind

[@faithmystery4441]

Lego DC super villains has a standing as well (though practically everybody in that game flirts with each other tbh)

[@nateds7326]

Lemme stop you right there: I don't. But they're dynamic is usually interesting and makes each of them more interesting, which is what's important to me.

[@mcl4549]

I love that in The Batman (TV Cartoon not movie) I'm pretty sure there isn't any abuse, the joker really does love Quinn and they are just a villain power couple

[@elenatruj]

Thank you so much for this video. I LOVED Birds of Prey and that version of Harley Quinn. She was amazing in The New Suicide Squad and i adore her and HEAVILY relate to her in the Harley Quinn Show (adore Bane as well lmao) but when ppl talk shit i cant convey how i feel. This video sums up why all her modern takes are so great! I dont hate Joker and the Harley Quinn show is proof they can be their own people. Harley is so cool and deserves an indepent role.

[@estebangutierrez160]

Also fun fact, just like the Harley Quinn animated series, Harley did infact became a member of the Bat Family.

[@CosmicCake07]

Bird of pray movie as always being the GOAT and everyone looked over it

[@felipeperez7844]

Kinda wish we saw more discussion in The Batman (cartoon w dreadlocks joker) discussion

[@GlitchecalKatt]

This is peak.💜

[@ultimatenintendoninja5450]

It's a good day when SC uploads 🔥

[@WilliamAftonin1985]

She's caught in a bad romance

[@seeleunit2000]

I want your ugly, I want your disease. I want everything so long as it's free... (Sorry I couldn't resist)

[@rosemary3029]

I've only seen the 2004 batman i noticed that the joker and Harley were portrayed as chaotic evil friends