Sardonicast 130: GDT Pinocchio, Glass Onion, Mean Girls

[@BloodRaven936]

Smiling Friends is a good example of something that represents internet culture well

[@johnw3520]

You can tell Ralph wanted to rate Mean Girls higher 😂 and wanted to talk about it more

[@monicat340]

I think what made Mean Girls so massively popular is that it spoke to a lot of peoples early life experience of wanting to fit in and have some kind of reputation among peers. Lindsay Lohans character transformation was believable and clever. This was kind of dismissed as a generic teen movie when it’s clearly a standout. Most of this discussion was about early 2000s culture and Lohans Wikipedia article which is disappointing

[@jakemitchell9853]

Ralph being back is so fetch, dude.

[@suntzu8168]

Jake stop trying to make fetch happen. It’s not going to happen

[@SoraTheKeyToEverything]

This aged poorly.

[@noahboy7309]

​@@SoraTheKeyToEverything Or did it age really well?

[@solanumtuberosa]

Guillermo Del Toro's Mean Girls: A Knives out story.

[@Sputterbug]

mean girls with weird designs, weilding knives

[@michaelscott8901]

Timestamps are in the description :) I’ll do the question time timestamps, but you all should let me know if you want me to keep doing them or if that’s too extra haha Pizza Time (Question Time) Timestamps: 1:11:36 What are some films that get the internet right? 1:20:39 Why do people hate Chris Pratt? 1:27:48 Thoughts on the accusation of only liking something because of nostalgia? 1:30:50 Thoughts on Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles topping the Sight and Sound poll? 1:38:32 Thoughts on animated shows getting cancelled? Thanks for the pod boys! Glad to see Ralph back and healthy :)

[@Bernie_Keys]

Keep it up! Proud of you. :)

[@WatskyIsTheMan]

I love them!

[@obscure.reference]

question time stamps are good for posterity

[@janpopovic1773]

These are great, it's easier to click around

[@boobysr]

please keep doing them i appreciate them! thank you!!!

[@ihavemovedtesreviews]

Feels good to have actually seen the new movies they're talking about for a change.

[@HumanBornFresh]

REAL

[@sbarn542]

Agreed lmao

[@PiPointOneFour]

True. That's mostly because Q4 came in clutch for fun movies (EEAAO not withstanding)

[@astheancienthawaiiansusedtosay]

so glad im not the only one lmao

[@Tine_of_Nice_Dreams]

43:20 to skip to the end of glass onion discussion, for those avoiding spoilers or just chomping at the bit for mean girls

[@JessIdlehart]

I work in animation and Spiderverse did prompt a change, but it was mostly studios asking you for spiderverse style, instead of trying a different form of stylization.

[@PauLtus_B]

I suppose studios just don't seem to learn that having your own personality works for a piece of art.

[@motherplayer]

Yep. Once again, nothing specific, just "Give us this style". Same thing with Die Hard and we got so many "It's Die Hard, but in/on a ____" pitches or "MCU" banter that tries to make everyone a "funny one" at the expense of some individuality.

[@RoshDroz]

I'm so happy to hear someone praise Tim Meadows. He's constantly written off as an unsuccessful SNL alumn who gets roles only because of his friendship with Adam Sandler, but he's hilarious! I've always loved him, I wish he'd get more roles and recognition

[@sciencefantastic]

And he never paid for drugs. Not. ONCE.

[@Sugarman96]

I'm always glad when he shows up as a guest star in whatever it is I'm watching, he's consistently funny.

[@tonywords6713]

He's soooo fucking funny in Walk Hard

[@Bazoinkerz]

I quite enjoy Mean Girls. Sure it ain't high art but as an American high school drama flick, there isn't many I enjoy more. It's also very quotable, my friends and I frequently reference it.

[@Sputterbug]

no it's def high art

[@Alex-cw3rz]

I will always find it funny in Means Girls Lindsey Lohan is from "Africa" it's that vague, which is such an American thing with their levels of geography knowledge.

[@treetheoak8313]

Mean girls and legally blonde are genuinely good "chick flicks" imo

[@LuckeGabriel]

Clueless shocked me at how fantastic it was! Would love a Fast Times & Clueless discussion as both were directed by Amy Heckerling and feel almost like the same film but a different generation.

[@Whawpenshaw]

Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen is a much better example of "we fucked up Lindsay". Mean Girls was at least trying to make a real commentary which is STILL relevant today.

[@SgtNicholasAngle]

I'm really hoping they pick Children of Men as a watch, would love to hear their perspective.

[@elizona703]

Y'all should talk about the Don't Hug Me I'm Scared show, sewing how Alex is literally Red guy.

[@WiloPolis03]

And also seeing how it's an absolutely banger show

[@ParawhoreLoL]

It was good but oh man they really over did the songs

[@DepthUnchecked]

They sound SO similar I swear to god

[@WiloPolis03]

@@ParawhoreLoL Tbf the original webseries was a borderline musical, my only issue with the songs in the TV show was that they weren't as catchy as the webseries ones

[@sousleciel2416]

So I watched Sophia Phan's commentary of Mean Girls and she said that the girls never actually said the N word they just decided to use the N word in the subtitles for comedy

[@trentcockman7838]

1:06:41 I thought Ralph was about to just say “Wizards” like the Bakshi film

[@Charles12]

The first sardonicast I can watch all the way through since I've seen all these movies prior to this podcast

[@FrenchFries2]

I see Ralph recovered from his Jenkem overdose. Nice to see him back!

[@MasterMemo]

I think Glass Onion has some critique about The Last Jedi, or at least JJ Abrams. He has characters solving mystery boxes with either really esoteric solutions, or really simple stuff...but one person just smashes it to get to the inside. I heard an interview with him talking about how mysteries should be more about the characters than just solving a mystery for the sake of it.

[@yyeahsure]

jj abrams? u mean rian johnson?

[@sam_vinette]

@@yyeahsure They meant Rian Johnson, who directed Glass Onion, is critiquing JJ Abrams. He's the one known for his "mystery box" take on movies and shows.

[@anthonymartensen3164]

Yeah JJ Abrams stories dont usually highlight characters at all

[@PauLtus_B]

I think it's kinda reaching within Glass Onion itself. Glass Onion is more about assumption of talent clouding judgement. The problem with Abrams' mystery box is that he's trying to write mysteries from start to end: which in terms of writing logic is really backwards as it's constructing the story around something that just isn't there. That said: if I were Rian Johnson I'd feel pretty hurt about Rise of Skywalker. To see that retcon basically everything the Last Jedi did trying to appease the people who hated it already pissed me off so I can't imagine how it feels for Johnson.

[@anthonymartensen3164]

@@PauLtus_B what was retconned from The Last Jedi?

[@worrywirt]

This is a film trio specifically curated for my enjoyment lol

[@lilmovieperp3599]

for movie depicting internet culture: the weirdo 4channers were represented well in "We're All Going to the World's Fair"

[@KaleLikesWaffles]

Tina Fey was head writer on SNL during a peak period of that show

[@silencer1286]

Thank you I was really hoping that would be mentioned

[@ygsr]

On the internet done right question: watch All About Lily Chou-Chou. It focuses a lot on internet culture, and for a film from 2001 it holds up amazingly. The process of writing the film also ties into it, and it's interesting to look into.

[@MiraCassandre]

I really loved this movie but goodness, I found it really depressing.

[@ajunabraunschweiger4248]

Apparently Lindsay Lohan has been doing pretty alright and starred in a very corny and campy christmas Netflix original. I think she’s just vibin, thank fuck

[@wyattgranger5870]

When I was in 7th grade they sent this Christian group to talk to us about Abstinence and gave us horror stories and false statistics on contraceptives and pregnancy rates. So the sex ed joke I'm mean girls makes me die laughing every time

[@wyattgranger5870]

Lying to budding preteens using comically bad false statistics, and doing it with a conservative Christian bend to it is objectively the wrong way to go about it. Every student in my class knew they were full of shit, and that makes young people dive into more reckless behavior, I'd argue. I'm not knocking Abstinence, I'm saying the way the movie exaggerated the "have sex, you will get aids and die" joke is on par with my middle school experience.

[@Ceaseless_Cischarge]

@@NeverSaySandwich1 🤓

[@SonicHaXD]

Glad they all got a palate cleanser with Guillermo Del Toro's Pinocchio XD

[@Charles12]

who wouldn't honestly, its just that good

[@benjamintillema3572]

Perfect Blue was pretty ahead of its time in depicting the internet, parasocial relationships, and social media

[@GilCAnjos]

If Pinocchio was live-action it would automatically get a Best Feature nomination at the Oscars

[@snowballthepro2926]

Oh my God yes. It'd be getting Picture, director, screenplay, song, score, and a finalist for production design. Buts it's animated so I guess it's only half the movie of live action.

[@MatrakenKEN]

Netflix get a bad rep for greenlighting everything, which is somewhat fair, but they have helped lots of people innovate in the medium of animation, with Arcane, Klaus, Love Death and Robots, Beastars and now this, there are some gems that would have probably never existed otherwise

[@dannymarie]

Well I like that they greenlight so many projects, I just wish they stuck with more of them and dropped others. Like Stranger Things has been drawn on far too long and there are so many other people breaking ground and getting dropped :') variety is the spice of life and they keep sticking to salt and pepper

[@CoOlKyUbI96]

I do like how open they are to green lighting a ton of projects. However it frequently seems as if the standard they have for what gets more seasons is so ridiculously high.

[@alexbartok7579]

With the exception of LDR, none of these are produced by netflix, they are only distributing.

[@MatrakenKEN]

@@alexbartok7579 you are right, but I would asume having the distribution side of things on the bag ensured more trust in investing on said projects, but again, that is just assumption

[@DontTouchMyCroissant]

33:50 "Meow."

[@luiginastro8831]

This was unnecessarily very funny

[@bonestheclown9995]

The secretary for the school in the film, Joane the secretary was played by a Canadian actress named Sharron Mathews. She is in the local theatre scene here in Calgary, so I thought I would mention since Adam lived in AB for a while, maybe he would like to know that there was an Albertan in the movie. Idk I always thought it was cool to think that a local Canadian actress is in one of the more famous movies of the last twenty-some years.

[@JeekayTenn]

Lord of the Sardonists: Return of the Ralph

[@JayKayEllEmm]

I knew this one girl in high school who said she didn’t like Mean Girls that much and that she had only seen it five times. FIVE TIMES?!?!? AND YOU DIDN’T LIKE IT?!?! THAT’S SEVEN AND A HALF HOURS!!!!!

[@kaitlinsiegel2590]

For the record, Adam, Lindsay's doing MUCH better now!!

[@just2good]

Adum shouting out the GOAT underrated Haneke movie Happy End hell yea

[@elbowjuice2627]

I like Haneke but can’t stand that movie.

[@NudlArm]

My biggest gripe with Guiermo del Toro's Pinocchio is how Jimeny Cricket wishes for Pinocchio to have his life back, when he could have said "I wish the last contract be revoked." Then he's alive and also immortal still

[@Sputterbug]

he didn't know about the contracts though

[@plazem_]

It was nice of Adam to unshackle Ralph from his basement this week

[@sjoerddondersteen1337]

return of the king

[@grifoochoa9281]

Now I just wanna hear them talk about Walk hard it’s such a funny movie with some awesome comedic acting from John c Riley

[@YodasPapa]

48:30 It's called the euphemism treadmill lads

[@JaneGo]

Glad you decided to lay off the jenkem for this episode, Ralph. Good to have you back.

[@HumanBornFresh]

this upload made me incredibly happy and excited :))

[@secondeye1574]

Adam's comment on official terminology turning into slurs and then becoming unusable as official terminology so a new word needs to be used is a pretty good one. Another example is political groups like trans exclusionary radical feminists, they ended up saying the term accurately describing their ideology is a slur and changed to calling themselves gender critical

[@emerybluh4506]

I was also thinking of teens on the internet co-opting the medical term "triggered" for situations where they were just uncomfortable, and then that futher being co-opted by conservatives to mock anyone having an emotional reaction to something offensive. Now people with PTSD feel like they can't use the word to describe instances where they are Actually being triggered into flashbacks or trauma states.

[@lartrak]

Euphemism treadmill is a good term.

[@justaghostinthesea]

It's not exactly the same thing, but the right did something similar with the word "woke." It just means to be aware of societal problem, but they just use it as a buzzword for anything they don't like. It's really fucking annoying.

[@secondeye1574]

@@justaghostinthesea I agree but I don't think it's the same thing because I can't see "woke" falling out of fashion, whereas "sjw" which despite being more restrictive as a noun concept rather than an adjective concept got old within a couple years, and the mocking made it redundant. But woke is too widespread to fall out of the lexicon in my opinion

[@bobjones2959]

Comparing Glass Onion and Knives Out, my experience with them are strangely analogous to my experiences with Jordan Peele's Get Out and Us. Both Knives Out and Get Out are, to me, 10/10 examples of their genre while adding something new, and I couldn't have asked for more with each of them. On the other hand, I felt that compared to their predecessors, Glass Onion and Us both delivered weaker experiences overall, but were at least as good if not better in terms of their themes and social commentary. I really liked the Glass Onion as a metaphor for vapid , showy tech bros, and the way it's also used to represent the mystery itself was brilliant. But the whole thing doesn't manage to come together in as cohesive and satisfying way as Knives Out, partially because in Knives Out, the information we as the audience see is always in line with what Morta and Blanc know as we follow them. Glass Onion opts instead to misdirect the audience and reveal information that both Blanc and Helen knows in scenes away after they themselves get the knowledge. It might work for some other movies, but for a film I expected to be some flavor of whodunnit, it feels more like a cheat by the author to deliberately keep key information out of the audience's awareness. It felt almost the same as a ret-con (though of course it wasn't one, it was just the same feeling of disappointment to me). I still like Glass Onion a lot because I feel its social commentary was clever and on-point, but ultimately it was a weaker experience than Knives Out because it felt less "fair" in how information was revealed to the audience.

[@moonman8450]

The jokes in Glass onion are of the kind where you cringe in two years (if not already) when you hear them

[@dillanconrad]

Glass Onion is severely overrated.

[@johnwise9811]

Day 42 of asking for an episode on the Evil Dead trilogy

[@FrenchFries2]

Keep it up. You never know they might actually do it. They did The Spongebob Squarepants movie from 2004 because of my comments and the audience voting for it for the 100th Sardonicast podcast. So, the Sardonicast Spongebob guy stands with your fight! I hope you get this done.

[@toch951gallegos3]

Halloween

[@johnwise9811]

@@FrenchFries2 Thank you for your supportive comment. I have hope that it might happen in the spring with the release of Evil Dead Rise but we'll have to wait and see.

[@Jormbis]

1:11:36 I can name a few that get the internet right: Her (2013) We’re All Going to the World’s Fair Eighth Grade Ingrid Goes West Feels Good Man

[@neoninuit]

We’re all going to the Worlds Fair*

[@Jormbis]

@@neoninuit goddammit i have no idea the world’s end was in my head lol

[@neoninuit]

@@Jormbis all good man, great movie as well

[@CoooolRocks]

Please look at how the sight and sound list is put together. Every director or critic chooses 10, unranked. With the director recently passing away, how commonplace a feminist lens has become, it being newly restored and put into the criterion collection are a few reasons for its recent popularity and love. I don’t think the list is made to provoke. It’s not by design. I don’t think it’s like modern clickbait. It’s been around awhile and conducted the same way I believe. No list is perfect but it’s good for recommendations, as well as a snapshot of modern film taste and perception of the past.

[@RoshDroz]

Mean girls is epic

[@Zeeboq]

People talking about depiction of the internet in media but I haven't seen anyone mention Serial Experiments Lain.

[@trollexecution5540]

RALPH IS BACK!!! Let’s gooo

[@vingram100]

Glass oNiOn had me dead! 💀💀

[@larsonracies8636]

I guess I'm a little alone here, I never thought Knives Out was good I figured Chris Evans was the villain from the moment he appeared on screen and got nearly zero enjoyment out of it besides it being well shot and some good acting. Glass Onion was nearly identical of course I figured out Edward Norton was the main bad guy but they tried to get away with a "second reveal" with the napkin in the red letter which the audience never even knew existed when it's hiding place was revealed at the beginning giving no opportunity for a real "follow along and collect clues" type mystery movie, although I thought it was shot much better than knives out and had some more memorable performances not to mention it being a much sillier and sarcastic tone I still think of it exactly the same level of enjoyment as the first one.

[@StimmBehr]

Can't wait for the episode on Lies of P

[@iansmart4158]

MEAN GIRLS is a masterpiece!!!! Glad to see you folx doing this flick!

[@ريّان-ذ4ت]

I saw a movie recently called Deadstream that really got the vibe of internet livestreaming right

[@greenentertainment3428]

2022 was the year of the Pinocchio, when are we going to get the year of the Hercules/ Greek Gods

[@roachmasta189]

wait do they not know who votes in the sight and sound poll?

[@tajkia2211]

I enjoyed Death on the Nile more than Glass Onion, minus Army Hammer. The Keneth Branagh’s detective character worked better in that movie than Daniel Craig’s detective character

[@larryfishmas]

Don't people also dislike CP because he blew up and then kinda just shook off Anna Faris like he was too good for her now? Also know he, like John Krasinski, has been accused of being a shill for the CIA, but perhaps to a lesser extent than John.

[@christ-air-backflip-720fla6]

Is mean girls kinda like a book of beasts?

[@DanXmas]

45:25 “The Ladies Man” (2000) discussion episode plzzz

[@getmario64]

I would prefer Dave Bautista, either Jason Momoa, and John Cena over Dwayne "Men in Black" Johnson any day. Just felt more these performances were a bit career different characters than what "Black Adam" always be the same The Rock type guys already done it!

[@UnCreativeDeconstructionism]

We need a recut of "Pinocchio's Revenge" with the voice of Albert Flang in it.

[@GOODBOYMODZZ]

It'd be cool to see a Heathers discussion.

[@attackofthecopyrightbots]

clueless is better than mean girls

[@trevise684]

i agree with the auto tune in Pinocchio, it doesnt really sound like singing with how much autotune there is

[@trevise684]

although i would say even pinocchios autotune was grating, actually the most grating

[@heymelon]

No, we are not as a society saying that being attracted to anyone under 18 is bad because that is just life. We are saying it is bad to engage in sexual or romantic activities with them. Depending on the country/consent laws it varies I suppose, but either way we should not sexualize minors. But people get lost in those muddy waters I suppose. Edit: Looking into Baby one more time which released 1998, it looks like Brittney was 17 at least.

[@squidlickersteven2733]

Yo, dope vid bruh but u missed the mark a bit, u should've dropped more knowledge on del Toro's filmography and how it relates to the "Glass Onion" and "Mean Girls" references. Also, ur thoughts on the symbolism and themes in his work would've been lit. Overall, solid effort but could've been better if u went deeper into the topic.

[@blahblahblahblah6546]

DUDE WOW, PRIDE RALPH!

[@fhqwgads5000]

I'd argue these shows aren't family guy/south park clones, but Bojack clones. Also, Simpsons season 10 has classics. You guys should update that opinion. The popular, outdated opinion is season 10 isn't good, but then you realize half the memes we remember are from that era.

[@getmario64]

19:35 to be fair, I think every animation media including the better ones of "del Toro's Pinocchio" , "Entergalatic" , and "Puss in Boots: The Last Wish" were beyond the better qualities of film art media. While they work to make it perfect and even "The Last Wish" looks so good with blending 2D/3D animated effects so its reaching much attention that since Pixar and Disney Animated features were the same and not nearly the best to make it much cartoony, 3D, or anything to make it prop from the studio so they're stepping ahead to make it new, art style meaning, and they're all looked good even releasing these two in the holidays were beyond getting back in track of animation. Guillermo saids it best while winning the Golden Globe, "The animation is part of media and art." So take that these Disney live action princesses who said it "Animation mend to be kids" in the embarrassing Oscars award show.

[@Jormbis]

If I had a nickel for every time Tina Fey made her white actress play a character who was originally born from a non-white community, I would have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that it happened twice. (Mean Girls and Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt)

[@luiginastro8831]

Oh yeah, never noticed that

[@dirrdevil]

Saying "I hate C.P." might be interpreted in a very different kind of hate...

[@duskplains1235]

Looking forward to the puss in boots 2 discussion

[@GOLDFISH817]

How come I don’t get these early anymore

[@DavidJohnson-xs4mp]

1:21:36 THANK YOU!!!!

[@yggdrasil2]

Tom Cruise kinda had a similar fate of being sexualized at an early age and growing up to be kinda crazy.

[@alexmaverick6647]

I don’t see the outrage over Jeanne Dielman. There are hundreds of movies that are better than Citizen Kane, but no one ever bitched about that being number 1.

[@ozymandias2540]

Let’s try to make felch a thing instead

[@obscure.reference]

“i don’t care about individuals” -“alex” ihateeverything (2023)

[@markiangooley]

Lyricism and lyrics don’t mean the same thing. A quibble.

[@solidsamus926]

I like this Ralph guy I guess but let's not overdo it with the guests now.

[@shiggydiggy6847]

I'm surprised to hear that the guys didn't find the third act of Glass Onion disappointing. To me everything that lead to the arson and the woman getting away with was just so mind numbingly stupid that it really spoiled my impression of the film.

[@moomoo1200]

Glass onion had some of the worst humor in it, lazy pop culture references that appease the masses, forget the politics of the film it just felt like Johnson just took the top ten news stories and people of the last two years and put it in a shit stew

[@a55a551nxki114x]

Soul Man Sardonicast?

[@lukec6d9]

When you have early black eyed peas on vinyl lol

[@alyssacandle5106]

Beam me up, Scotty

[@sydberetta4649]

*1:21:15* Would you say they are being "over the top VITRIOLIC" Ralph? lol

[@Crocomum]

Hobbit time boys and girls

[@someaccount659]

Glass onion is a lot of things. “Clever” is not something I’d describe it as

[@catherinegagnon7]

Isnt winnie the pooh in public domaine now?

[@phartferd5738]

Why does the American have to say so little but still make sure to get racist when the opportunity strikes? :(

[@Xavi_AH]

1:07:18 Kimmy Schmidt watch along? 👀

[@iciajay6891]

This is Rufus.

[@dibs0equiped]

Adum being gay is so peapoopbarfpuke

[@drbabyyy]

i kind of liked the movie Spree's use of the internet because like how Deadstream pokes fun at twitch streamers, Spree parodies tiktokers in a cartoonish way that i found amusing. couldve been done better though, would love to know what you guys think edit: lmfao ralph and adum brought it up right when i finished typing this, they said exactly what i was hoping they'd say 💀