Money Man: That was never a red card!

The Money Man and Scott Gibbs discuss the big Bok win over Portugal and rubbish Andre Esterhuizen's red card.
#Rugby #Springboks

[@nicoengelbrecht2509]

Such a privilege to have a true international legend like Scott Gibbs giving us his insights on a weekly basis. Thanks for arranging this show Money Man!

[@vanrensburgarchitecturebim1641]

With red cards being handed out like government jobs, the 20min red becomes imperative

[@nzfreeski]

Sadly not at the WC that cost ABs a chance of WC glory

[@Forest9528]

​@nzfreeski when will people admit that the ABs actually started playing better when they went down to 14 If you'd have stayed at 15 you would have lost by 10+

[@qwashubi]

​@@Forest9528wrong. abs have hystorically been slow starters and strong finishers

[@vanrensburgarchitecturebim1641]

@@Forest9528 for years, the majority ab fans called for Cane to be dropped - then when he finally leaves the field, he's suddenly the goat who would've given them rwc glory. ...seems to me, his red card offense was his greatest service to the ab's, as without him, they looked infinitely better.

[@enriquenelson7184]

Yeah I think a 20 min red would have been fair

[@graemeduane5760]

As good as rugby is now, wild variations in reffing are letting the game down. Here an old fashioned collision gets a red card, but an intentional croc roll - with a broken leg gets a yellow last week. Crazy.

[@WhatTheFunK.]

Molly is right down there with Nick Berry

[@frikvanniekerk1873]

Thanks guys,as a South African im proud to lisen to you gys,so much respect and truth.thanks

[@wot4922]

2 Welsh guys living in SA ?

[@fredflintstone3424]

the woman ref disappointed me, and I was appalled at the red card. The worst decision was by the TMO

[@dougerrohmer]

Nothing wrong with the referee, and the fact that you stipulate "woman referee" tells me where you come from. And the red card was not a referee decision.

[@wot4922]

​@@dougerrohmerFacts. Just don't start your sentence with an And though😂🇿🇦

[@dougerrohmer]

@@wot4922 And why not?

[@user-zl7wo9vi3e]

Unrelated to rugby, Kevin is such a gent. I've served him more than once at 2 different restaurants and he's the same respectful and bubbly character every time. Always willing to have a chat and has a lekker laugh. Lekker Kevin!🤘

[@myronalcock4716]

Gentlemen, when I saw it live - I thought a penalty, sure - a yellow maybe, a red no. But, when you look at the replay, frame by frame, you'll note Andre's head is leading in the contact. A very poor tackle - unfortuntate as I'm a fan of his physicality. So the yellow was justified and on bunker analysis the upgrade to red was too.

[@Sonicchristmasblast0]

The head contact came after the Whiplash not before

[@Karma-qt4ji]

​@@Sonicchristmasblast0but it was 100% avoidable and that means poor technique. The right call regardless of how bad we feel for Andre and if that was us on the receiving end, we would expect nothing less than a red card.

[@myronalcock4716]

@@Sonicchristmasblast0 My opinion from the frame by frame - I see the head hit first, then the chest hit. It explains to me how the portuguese's players head whips as violently as it does.

[@user-xs3ms1or3g]

No Gibbs it’s not a textbook tackle. It’s head on head with force. There’s no mitigation. The onus is on the tackler to level drop, bend at the hips to make a legal tackle. That doesn’t happen. Intent is irrelevant. It’s poor technique. It’s dangerous. Simple. And this North American host has no clue he’s not a rugby man on the basis of living in the Republic for a few years that doesn’t cut it. I’ll excuse GIbbs as being old school, to a point.

[@williambotha5864]

@@Karma-qt4ji Andre's contact point was BELOW the shoulder, making it a legal tackle. How low do you want him to do a wrap tackle? Poor technique? I think not.

[@monicaclaassen3852]

Thank you for speaking up against that ridiculous red card

[@EliJon378]

I checked on the World Rugby laws and the tackle was just below shoulder height, so yellow yes, but red?!? I didn't see any head contact. Intent?!? There was far less violent intent in this tackle than the clean out on Malcolm Marx. World Rugby are making themselves look like fools. Both Ireland players should've got yellow, not red but definitely yellow. If the tackle in the Portugal game was red then there's massive inconsistency from refs. It was absurd that the ref in the Portugal game called head contact before the TV ref said anything about head contact, and she was watching on the big screen?!? WTF?!? Utterly ridiculous.

[@axxey]

You can't see the head contact in a lot of angles, but I'd assume watching the footage at 8:03 that there's pretty heavy direct head clash making Esterhuizen's head bounce back like that at the start of contact that you only see the portugal whiplash from the other angles. Esterhuizen's head doesn't bounce off something for no reason. I would almost say it's a massive consistancy even if i don't like the way it's ruled across the board at all.

[@williambotha5864]

There was a very quick snap of head contact - due to the victim's head WHIPLASHING into contact due to the violence of the tackle. So now, the Boks can't tackle players any higher than the ankles unless they limit the violence of their tackles? Bovine Fecal matter.

[@novak7970]

Sam Cane got a red card for a lot less at RWC final. Kolisi got a Yellow that was in between these two cases. Inconsistencies are either incompetence or corruption.

[@peasant5612]

Yep. You gotta wonder huh Decisions just don't always make sense Or seem legit

[@hsmedsvik]

According to you. Not according to the rulebook.

[@evanh8749]

Sam Cane didn't change levels, and tackled in a way resulting in direct head to head contact. So a red card. Esterhuizen didn't change levels, at much greater impact resulting in a direct head to head contact in the collision. So a red card. Siya in the WC changed his level, after initial contact his head/shoulder bounced off the ball/opponents shoulder, and then up into a head to head contact. Yellow card, due to mitigating factors.

[@Ollies2CentsWardill]

The internerd can't agree on these decisions after weeks of blisters from scroll buttons and you think that TMO's and refs can make on the spot decisions that are always going to agree with your biases and conform to your subjective standards of perfection?

[@GerhardB]

TMO's have become control freaks like Fact Checkers are on Facebook. Rugby is not the game it always was.....People always say the Springboks are big Physical players BUT they become like that through training hard on the field and in the gym However all rugby players worldwide can become Physical players like the Boks as well.....just train. Boks are targeted because of their strength.

[@ghostcrabman]

The lack of camera angles to look at the red card tackle was frustrating. I did not see clear evidence of ANY head contact. Monster tackle!

[@jeanclaudebertoni6262]

To quote Tana.......This aint tiddly winks ref

[@franciscobizzaro]

Great reference 💯

[@AC-hu3xk]

Scott is absolutely class ❤

[@Wolf-hh4rv]

Red card was ridiculous. It was technically well within the rules. A contact sport !!!!. INTENT must play a role.

[@murraysmith595]

And Sam Cane had intent 😂😂

[@stevegordon5372]

nobody should get a red card for an accidental head clash. end of.

[@Ollies2CentsWardill]

Very few such incidents are deliberate but there needs to be a sanction to discourage head contact. Players need to learn not to put themselves in positions which are likely to result in head contact. Contrary to what people keep claiming, it isn't that difficult.

[@Karma-qt4ji]

There is a line drawn by World Rugby between "accidental" (Siya Kolisi, RWC final) and "avoidable" (Andre Esterhuizen here). Love the guy but his technique was wrong. In the lead up to the tackle, at no point was his head lower than the ball carriers, meaning that he was always too high and there was always a realistic chance of the head knock. The wrap tackle still has its place in rugby but it should be a more passive tackle where you are catching the guy and absorbing his momentum - again, this was a wrap with an incredible amount of forward force and the impact was so bad that the ball carrier was out cold before he hit the ground, causing even more damage. I am proudly South African but I know for a fact that if this was Jordie Barrett on Cheslin Kolbe, this video (and others like it) would never have been made. We would 100%, and correctly, supporting the red card decision.

[@BlueBullsFan]

I think SFM on flyhalf and Damien Willemse (when fit) on fullback is the way to go.

[@darrenwayne8263]

Yes, not a red card. It's rugby, very physical.

[@murraysmith595]

And the World Cup final?

[@mickjames7896]

@@murraysmith595 shoulder to shoulder is completely different to shoulder to head I think you need to start there

[@JeyesFluid]

Mind-blowing how this turned to a red and later suspension there is clear mitigation when he bends his knees into the tackle.

[@jeanm27]

Esterhuizen did in fact level change and maybe he should not have dropped to make the tackle. Also, that particular angle was not reviewed if I'm not mistaken, thus it should not have been a red.

[@hsmedsvik]

It was a yellow under review so surely the TMO will look at all angles during the 10min or so review

[@davidmeredith8979]

WIllemse @ 15 , Sasha @ 10 & Grant @ 9 .... Thats a dream combo

[@BlueBullsFan]

Was wondering for a moment if Joe Marler has a brother...😂

[@donaldpinkus5284]

Sacha missed a critical tackle.Let’s not build a legend too early!

[@Ollies2CentsWardill]

He also lacked awareness of where he was relative to touch when he gave away the final lineout. He could quite safely have left the ball alone as it was practically over the line when he caught it. Would have been game over.

[@rodwellchigome7567]

​@@Ollies2CentsWardillAnd the banana kick straight into touch thinking he was playing in the URC

[@greenplasticgun]

In the moment I didn't see the head contact but there must have been since on the way to the floor the POR player was already out for the count. Fair enough.

[@Leoatwallacerockhole]

Yeah you called it absolutely correct. The focus is player safety and eliminating this form of contact " head on head" Accidental doesn't cut it players have to adjust their tackle height and technique if you don't you will be red carded

[@AndreCillie]

Scotts Gibbs what a legend

[@Sonicchristmasblast0]

What is so sad about the RED card is the Ref said she didn't see anything there i.e it should be a play on only later for the TMO to intervene after 5 minutes while the guy was busy getting packed up and out of the field. What makes it sad again is the TMO called it in at about 09:50 mins into the 10 min mark of the yellow card, only to escalate the Card to RED so really this is all on the TMO.

[@jeffreybernard5853]

Thanks from New Zealand

[@AndreLeonSwanepoel]

Can this be overturned after more thorough investigation?

[@abyabrahams7639]

Red card all day, he tackled the guy without arms, only attempt to wrap he's arms when going to ground!!!

[@user-du8em2xq5c]

Interesting how some people will see a bird and others a plane. For me, the headline should read: That was always a red card! The way I read the steps in a legal tackle, the first player in, should lower the shoulder and arms BELOW the shoulder height of the ball carrier. It only gets complicated when the ball carrier dips low

[@stephenstrydom1]

Nope

[@ghostcrabman]

You first need to pro e that there was head contact. That was NOT demonstrated.

[@stephenstrydom1]

@@user-du8em2xq5c Blah, blah, not a red card...

[@Ollies2CentsWardill]

@@stephenstrydom1 Weeble, weeble, a red card.

[@stephenstrydom1]

@@Ollies2CentsWardill Weeble, weeble, not a red card.

[@bjornhoffmann6008]

Worst case, say there was a glancing head on head (which there wasn't), surely there is mitigation in a change of height just from the guy setting himself to make the pass?

[@nicholaswoodward8191]

Agreed yellow was fair. But that upgrade was bullshit!

[@flinfaraday1821]

yellow for what? i'll never get these dumb rules. this is not rugby. you all have yellow fever.

[@hermancoetzee696]

I totally agree.

[@peadarr]

How could it be a yellow? If there’s head contact, what mitigation is there? It’s definitely an upright tackle with force, so can’t say it’s low danger. The only defence would be no head contact, in which case it wouldn’t even be a yellow

[@MrDylansmith1988]

Why is a yellow fair? No head contact, not high and arms were used?

[@peadarr]

Don’t see how a yellow is a consideration . If there was head contact, it’s a red. There was no mitigation, no one else making a “dynamic” situation. He lined him up from a distance away and hit him high with a lot of force. If there’s no head contact, it’s not a yellow either, it’s probably play on

[@albertsteyn7616]

I used to play Rugby, about 25 years ago, until a car accident ended it. Way back when before it all turned soft and before DEI became part of the game. Today a different game is played... not Rugby anymore really? A decent hard tackle on a smaller guy get turned into a red card because everything has to be equities. Even the referee. She didn't have a bad game really.... except that she tried to ensure that the Boks played with only 13 guts most of the time. It really is an insult to Portugal who did great! GO Portugal! May Rugby survive and we never have a repeat of this!

[@Lawlipopmedia]

just a word of afvice, set the camera on manual focus...(especially for static podcast shoots) focus breathing is bad... and dont have magazines with faces as the background... it will hunt focus for the main subject...

[@beetle6323]

I agree money man its a clear and obvious biased decision against the boks.

[@TheCosmerenaut1]

It’s not biased mate I promise you, no one I’m that referee team has an agenda against the boks

[@hsmedsvik]

I’m pretty sure the South Africa Rugby Union budget is higher than Portugal’s one?

[@Ollies2CentsWardill]

And the moon landings never happened.

[@Karma-qt4ji]

It was a red all day under the new protocols. The guy was out before he even hit the floor FFS. And we would all be screamimg bloody murder if that tackle was on Jesse by an opposition player and demanding a red card. Time we stopped playing the victim and just abided by the same laws we want everyone else to abide by.

[@kevinhurley611]

Borderline yellow card for AE tackle !

[@Cameron_JK]

Sorry head contact red card

[@KJTmethod]

Come on gents that was a red card , Sam Canes red in the final was way less intense! I’m a bok zealot but a red is a red 😂

[@tilmanvondelft]

Sorry guys, red all day long. André’s hight not good and has been reffed like this for at least the past year. André plays in England and should know better. He doesn’t need to “dial that down”, just go lower, the rib cage was asking to be smashed.

[@derycksmith4788]

What can be expected from Scottish refs .... Scotland still sour about the World Cup game they lost against the Boks. They complained then about the bomb squad and they are still complaining about it. The only South African players they like are the ones that play for them in their national team

[@peter636]

..Correct decision by ref, it was a bad tackle red card !

[@stephenstrydom1]

Nope

[@MosesMatsepane]

The ref was too strict. She was hard handed, and used the rule book with little naunce. The one decision that I liked was the penalty when the scrum-half took too long to use the ball, I liked that call.

[@JPF468]

You can’t tackle with your head up these days.

[@SpencerCourtis]

A point of note... Rugby is progressively becoming a game for MARSHMALLOWS!!! The Springboks red and yellow card with Portugal says it all. Players are not even competing for their up and unders now in fear of being red or yellow carded!!! What '(a)gender', narrative is contributing to this one asks?

[@albertsteyn7616]

Couldn't agree more. Not really Rugby anymore... everything's gotta go DEI now.... from refs to tackles!

[@christophersambo-X]

Mapiepie 😂

[@MosesMatsepane]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@derekfelton8287]

Where is Zels?

[@vanrensburgarchitecturebim1641]

He's still giggling at everything Keo said

[@dereksprackett5870]

Zels didn't lool like he wanted to be there last week. They kept interrupting him and Gibbs take up all the air space

[@gerhardolivier5293]

Sorry guys. The rules are there for every team. Why risk a high tackle. It was too high and he knows it.

[@riaaucamp6576]

The red card was not deserved. And a woman as a ref that is NOT A WOMANS PLACE.

[@Ollies2CentsWardill]

Why is it not a woman's place? AFAIAC she is one of the better refs around.

[@MarcoV_dj]

THE B2B WC Winners simply cant arrive in Aus and handover a (W) to them , its simply unacceptable !

[@user-uh6ed2id5i]

This answer typifies SA supporter mentality. You simply do not accept that you cannot always win! The problem is that when SA does lose, you totally destroy the moral of the players and coaches.

[@astronomers]

Australia shouldn't be hosting the next World Cup as they have lost interest in Rugby. The love AFL and RL wayy more. Australian rugby is in rapid decline. Half empty stadiums during the Wales test highlight how rugby union has become too slow-paced and physical , pushing fans towards AFL and Rugby League. It's sad for a rugby giant, and it could harm Oceania rugby. I hope the World Cup being hosted there really revitalises the sport in the country

[@MosesMatsepane]

It's not in decline, it's dead. Rugby Union is not in the top 5 most popular sports in Australia. They're also not developing next generation players at school level due to the popularity of League. Kids in Aussie schools see Union as this esoteric private school sport. Union is totally dead in Aussie.

[@jormundgandr88]

This is an ignorant comment 😊

[@jormundgandr88]

​@@MosesMatsepaneyet Aus u20s finished higher than SA and beat them? Be quiet please

[@astronomers]

@@jormundgandr88 the truth hurts

[@jormundgandr88]

@@astronomers any proof to the claim or more hearsay? I just proved it wasn't

[@riaaucamp6576]

Give the ref a red card. She as a woman is not welcome on the rugby field

[@Ollies2CentsWardill]

Maybe not by you, but then thankfully you have no say in the matter.

[@albertsteyn7616]

Yeah mate, you're totally right hey!? DEI, from referees to tackles now is it?

[@Nkanyiso131]

When do they leave for Australia?

[@Whotookcleaver]

Head on head, player out cold before he hits the ground, red all day. Went in way too hot. Carrying tackle bags for the rugby championship. Bok supporter

[@ruanoosthuysen5002]

All day a red card

[@murraysmith595]

Not a red? So the All Blacks were robbed in the final then??

[@MosesMatsepane]

The players intimidated the ref, and she used cards and penalties to affirm herself. As much as she was a great referee, my opinion is that lady referees should stick to women's Rugby...

[@bg365]

Absolute nonsense! High tackle, head to head contact, player injured and replaced. I thought it was a red card as it happened and the replays looked worse. Definitely a red card.

[@peter636]

100 % Percent !!

[@ngabushallday6642]

It was a red all day. The guy was asleep before he hit the ground. If you're going in to make a tackle, stay away from the head.

[@vanrensburgarchitecturebim1641]

G-force got him before AE's head, had himself a f-pilot experience

[@ngabushallday6642]

@vanrensburgarchitecturebim1641 Oh please. Shaddup.

[@kumquat4543]

The initial contact was chest to shoulder, it was secondary impact to the head, there's your mitigation, outcome does not decide the severity of punishment

[@ngabushallday6642]

@kumquat4543 Mitigation goes out the window the instant head contact occurs. There's your red card. And clearly, that's how it was reviewed. Night night.

[@hsmedsvik]

⁠@@ngabushallday6642 no it doesn’t😂 head contact is red card and then they look for mitigation. Mitigating factors here the way I understand it was that AE bent his knees, attempted to wrap his arms and attempted to tackle below shoulder height.

[@wilfredswartz679]

World rugby is a joke There was nothing wrong with the tackle,dat guy couldnt handle the physicality

[@dandaluna]

Don't blame it on the player, it wasn't his decision. He can handle the tackle, it was a bad fall and it was head on so he had to be taken out, that's all that was.

[@robertjan002]

The flying hug was a bad tackle. just in terms of tackling technique. AE didn’t do that on purpose and that’s the best I can say about it. Knowing the rules, I’m sure he wouldn’t put his team at a deficit for the entire game on purpose, especially considering he is trying to break into the team.

[@Fletcher806]

Red Card all day in this current environment. My personal opinion, yellow or possibly a penalty. The inconsistency of cards being dished out at the RWC and in particular the final has brought about more extreme and questionable decisions. The officials mantra must be, when in doubt go with the maximum, it seems. But this card lottery for me has been an issue for the past 10yrs. The AB's Vs BIL's in 2017 was a joke. I'm sure other people can give other examples.

[@SteveEdwards-kh5hg]

Kolbe theatrical dive against ireland😂boks cudnt score a try in eorld cup final against 14 players😂boks cudnt score try against ireland in recent 2nd test😂pretty average the boks i say.😂😂

[@revenant2979]

Yip I have to agree. 🏆🏆🏆🏆

[@oliver1klein1]

You clearly have not seen the angle (camera behind the poles) where Kolbe was clearly taken out with a hip!

[@vanrensburgarchitecturebim1641]

Learn😂how😂the😂space😂button😂works😂....infant.

[@Redline29827]

Who cares in 2027 we gonna smash u...we are in a building phase currently couldn't care less that we drew the series

[@subbie5498]

imagine having 0 wcs 😂hehe

[@Geraldo_Sem_Pavor]

A lot of people talking nonsense. The Nok center went head on head and left his opposite player unconscious. This ain't about physicality, it was about reckless tackling. The AB's captain got a red card for much less at the final of the RWC.

[@eugeneduplessis140]

Money bags... That was clear as day head to head contact. Come on.... Biased commenting and i am South African. You lose viewers being so blatantly biased.

[@stephenstrydom1]

Nope

[@bjornhoffmann6008]

Clear as day? Then why the need for all the replays? Broadcasters could save a lot of money ditching all those cameras and hiring you. Please send CV. Thanks

[@stephenstrydom1]

@@eugeneduplessis140 Clear as day? Lol

[@alankennedy3747]

Boks complaining about red cards. Now there's a surprise. Had it been Portugal, would been a very different outlook. I love the Boks. They are hilarious.😂

[@robertjan002]

Plenty of people calling it red. It’s almost like different people have different opinions.

[@subhuman119]

Yes it is a red card. There was head to head contact, have a look at all the different angles. Also, I didn't see South African's moaning about the red that Sam Cane got in the RWC final. The tackles were very similar, height, collison, everything. The fact that it's being complained about is laughable.

[@robertjan002]

Definitely red. The complaints are dumb. Either a macho rugby is for big boys, or a blind claim of no head contact. But now that you mention it, their were plenty of SAns eagerly defending Sam Cane, whose tackle was indefensible.

[@nzfreeski]

SA have zero credibility to complain about reds

[@robertjan002]

It was red and a clumsy challenge.

[@robsargent8801]

have you played the game?

[@beetle6323]

What game were you watching ?

[@hiltonbaron1588]

And here we go. You seem very confused. Rather go and watch some netball buddy. No head contact at all.

[@Ninjah2ultimateyessir]

What about Sam canes red card in the World Cup final ? Should that have stood ? Since it’s rugby right physical game right ?

[@ngabushallday6642]

​@@hiltonbaron1588 Lol, the guy was unconscious before he hit the ground.

[@MorgMorg-uf6ps]

But it was a red card❤

[@George.K1]

You can't have females reffing the mens game. Why is no one talking about her bad decisions?

[@sibongilemabaso2250]

Racism 😢😮

[@markwairepo2871]

So Sam Cane gets a red in World cup final, but that aint a red....wtf planet do yarpies live on...

[@garthmanuel5701]

completley different tackle! what world you live in?

[@garthmanuel5701]

one leadign with the shoulder to the head! the other making a legal tackle and then making contact with the head after... and it wasnt full on! player got hurt when he hit the ground! cause hes arms was wrapped and had no protection... unfortunate!

[@markwairepo2871]

@@garthmanuel5701 you actually believe your own BS, open your other eye...

[@Stormer-Europa]

Cane's first contact was direct to the head, Esterhuizen's was to the upper arm. 05:58 no head contact. Speaks for itself.

[@markwairepo2871]

@@Stormer-Europa again open your other eye, youre so biased and desperate for this tackle to be legal, you are not viewing this correctly. If the rloes were reversed, l guarantee you would be calling that a red card....

[@itslife761]

Woman ref???