Satterlee Load Test, 6 5 Creedmoor 142gr HPBT H4350

[@paulwatterson5992]

Excellent excellent video!!!

[@rlh7210]

Thanks Kirk for the great video. I just finished my satterlee testing on my 6.5 creedmoor. My creedmoor is savage axis receiver with 26 inch E. Author Brown Bull barrel, on a Boyd Pro Varmint stock. My final result 2810 fps ES of 11 fps, with a Hornady 140gr HP Match, Lapua small primer brass, using Reloader 17 powder. This Satterlee also verified my prior ladder test using the same components. Good luck on your give away with loads of beacon.

[@EagleEyeShooting]

Great point you stated with the brass. This method worked for me in 30-06 with H4350 in my latest test and video. I combined this method with Round Robin and results matched each other as far accuracy window and velocity plateau where the same node. Some powders just dont jive with your rifle.

[@vaughnprecision]

Eagle Eye Shooting I’ve struggled with powders, some just don’t shoot in some rifles

[@MrSjcod]

Wow! You really shed light on the the differences when using different brass! Thank you.

[@sylviacandler5541]

A German Gunsmith taught me a similar method 40 years ago, Joe Wagner. There is a variation that I will Share. You want to find max pressure for the barrel. Work up .5g at a time till you find max pressure. Back off 2.0-2.5g shooting two or three shot groups increasing powder charge from .2-.3g at a time, depending on the size of the case. You will find the bullets shooting in the same bullet hole. Verify with repeated three shot groups as 5 or more shot groups introduce a lot of barrel heat, possibly another issue, not to mention copper fouling may skew the groups in factory or military barrels. This method has worked on many, many barrels over the years without chronograph. When working up to find pressure, stand cases in the box on their case mouth, watching for pressure issues on the case head, a 10x magnifier helps to have on hand. Oddly enough, when you find the bullets shooting in the same bullet hole, SD and ES are usually below 10 fps. You want to find Maximum pressure. Always start with a clean barrel. Never over heat the barrel. If you do not have some kind of barrel cooling system, this system works in spades: Mix Alcohol 50/50 with water. Pour the solution on a wash rag, and you want to apply enough to the gun barrel to where the solution is dripping off the bottom of the barrel. You will be AMAZED at how fast the barrel cools....amazed! The only problem I have found that guys have with this method is that they are hap Hazzard on determining what is a max load, they do not know the visual effects on the case head of pressure increasing or they don't care. The other problem is that if they load a round, they are going to shoot the round, and shooting over max for the barrel loads usually ruins the brass and can blow the primer out the back in extreme cases. My idiot friends that wanted to shoot up their over max load rounds on one occasion siezed the bolt up in the rifle...pure stupidity and do not give a rip attitude.

[@BallisticSamFishing]

I really like the Satterlee test , it’s also good for when you don’t have a lot of time and you have a decent powder measures you can just throw the loads knowing that you might be up or down a few tenths of a grain and still be in the same spot on target. So you don’t have to weigh out every single charge to the exact number, which is good thing to do, but when you load for the middle of the node just throw them and be on your way.

[@fookgoogle9269]

I just got in to reloading. Sick and tired for looking for 6.5 grendel. I'll just make them

[@slightenigma]

Great explanation, I use the same method every time I work up a load.

[@vaughnprecision]

I think you'll like it. So far it hasn't let me down. Now I don't always get numbers as good as I did with my rifle. Some factory rifles will have bigger final numbers but either way, it reduces the final SD/ES. Let me know how if works out for you.

[@talkingrock7011]

yep case capacity's do vary I use hornady for my 6.5 creedmore , but my ruger American predator prefers IMR 4350 over H4350 and 42 grains of powder behind a Hdy HPBT match bullet

[@novaggie]

Did you go back to your 42.2 load and play with seating depth to find the optimal seating depth?

[@alanmaughan7968]

Thats a very relevant question, shame you didnt get a reply.

[@foxeric787]

I'll have to try this! Thanks for always producing great and useful content.

[@micfasto8700]

The load test method only works well if your reloading methods routinely load ammo with single diget SD as the norm. The magneto speed makes this obtainable for the normal guy.

[@BlackdogADV]

Thanks! I guess I need a Magnetospeed now, this is getting expensive.

[@davidt4911]

It also gets addictive...hold fast lol

[@billy19461]

This is a great video! Wish I could get a reloading class with you.

[@emoryzakin2576]

Boy I'd love to see a long term follow up!

[@dhooter]

As soon as I strap my magneto speed on the barrel every shot goes stupid lol. Only barrel it doesn’t effect is my heavy bull

[@CYOTsNiper]

Am I reading that correctly your only shooting one round per charge weigh?

[@larslake]

This is exactly the correct method. To modify it a bit you can shoot just 1 round at different loads (no more than .2 difference) instead of 3 or 4 rounds. It doesn't really matter what crono you use as long as all the rounds are shot through it. You're looking for the speed node just like he said. Once you find the speed node you can set up about a 3 round group at that load at different jumps to determine the best jump for that bullet in your rifle. Different powders will still give you the same velocity/speed nodes using the same bullet and rifle. and - yes you should use the same brass unless you have a very good prep procedure and experience with various cases.

[@rgcrowman3188]

So you started your load development at .5 under max load and went .5 over max load for the ladder test, So my question is where do you start your COAL for a test like this ?

[@jcows12]

Start .020 off the lands or 2 thousandths that is what Erick cortina reccomends, then reduce length by .003 increments to find the harmonics node.

[@gbrinfo]

Great vidéo, thanks . The most important point is as you underline it, is the brass .

[@vaughnprecision]

Gilles Brovillier I’m still shocked at the velocity variation from the brands. I knew it would effect it some, just not that damn much 😂

[@gbrinfo]

When it's too easy, that means you're playing video games ;)

[@RetrieverTrainingAlone]

Is there a chance of false plateaus since the sample size is 1 for each load? There is some error in the chronograph (+/- 2 fps?) and some natural velocity variation (+/- 3fps?) that is not captured with a sample size of 1

[@jcows12]

If you're chronograph is accurate and your loads are precise the data should be legitimate.

[@braddube101]

Where do you start for charge weight if 308 varget with 165 grain hornady starts in the book at 32.6 and ends at 44.0 where do you start

[@vaughnprecision]

I start roughly 10% below max charge and work up

[@Thoseaboutto911]

What about different Bullets of same weight , would they have the same velocity node. If you are shooting in a different climate or location and you may have lost or gained velocity. Could you change to a different bullet Or would you have to change bullet weight? What I am thinking is at long range to keep the Bullets in the same point of aim.

[@ChaskeJohnson]

My node was in the exact same spot with 140 gr. Berger elite hunter. I'm picking 42.1. My node started 41.9. I'm seated .163 off the lands to fit in the mag. Seems way too far out to possibly be accurate. Have you jumped bullets that far? I'm using ogive to measure not tip of projectile by the way.

[@vaughnprecision]

crash heap I usually jump no more then .010 but I have jumped .060 before.

[@ChaskeJohnson]

@@vaughnprecision thats what i figured. The rifle sure didn't like the 130 gr. Berger match factory loaded by federal. They were loaded to fit in a any mag i assume. They must be jumping about a lot at that point too. Plus the group of my 10 shot test was huge prolly 6". Thanks for your input. Great video!

[@andy347495]

Yeah, the difference is amazing isn't it. I used two different lots of remington brass once ans got 60-70fps difference between the two.

[@AkA-me-Kenny2]

Rather surprised, that if you have reloading classes, that your student wasn't advised to batch load with matching components. Guess the next class will benefit from what you shared here?

[@jwillard911]

How would that change with a 40*-50* temp change. the velocity which would change the harmonics nodes? Or would it be more steady?

[@terrykleypas50]

Another great video!! Thanks for all the help

[@PilotMcbride]

Great information, well presented. Food for thought, and a trial will be loaded up. Great stuff Vaughny, Really appreciate these tips, thanks :)

[@vaughnprecision]

Thanks.! I'll try to keep them posting!

[@lanceschul]

I like this method, although it hasn't always worked for me...I still focus on this method. Funny you mention the spikes from using different types of brass. I always shoot Remington brass and I have experienced fluctuations too. Not the same lot but the same brand. I couldn't figure it out...that is the maddening part.

[@garysreloadingroom]

How does the Satterlee load development differ from the Dan Newberry OCW load development?

[@tadeloach22]

Less rounds down range, but use both together. Shoot the 10 round with a chronograph, get your flat area, then do a small sample ocw with the charges with low e.s. and one charge weight below and above. This will confirm the node with around 22 to 25 rounds. Standard ocw can be 30 to 40 rounds.

[@garysreloadingroom]

@@tadeloach22 Thanks for the quick and clear response!

[@tadeloach22]

@@garysreloadingroomyou are welcome. I'm not the video creator, but this has been best way for me.

[@garysreloadingroom]

@@tadeloach22 I've used OCW for about four years with great success, but always looking for a better process. The Satterlee looks like it will get me in the ballpark quicker, then refine with OCW. Thanks again for the input.

[@tadeloach22]

@@garysreloadingroom anytime

[@billbee235]

Is the flat spot typically identified by 3 shots within say 4 or 5 fps?

[@4thforcon426]

What was the barrel length that gave you those velocities?

[@vaughnprecision]

@@4thforcon426 26.5 inch

[@brettinnj]

So I did this test on three loads. One for my 6.5 Creedmoor and it worked great. (H4350) Then I did it for my 6BR with both Varget and H4895. I used a Labradar. Both the Varget and H4895 showed almost a perfect 45 degree line up the chart (using google doc to chart). That was using .2g increments. Now what?

[@s.manuel7969]

brettinnj Different seating depth? Different primers? Different brass? Or change to a different bullet and powder-Chase the dragon Brett!

[@Nonedw]

I would add that unless you hit pressure signs... keep going by .2 gr

[@wiggsan]

Great video!! Thanks!!

[@k.t_shootz6584]

This test is good for all load developments right?

[@duckslayer11000]

Max load and pressure have to many variables to ever be able to use a blanket number. The reloading manuals give a safe number for the worst case scenario. Just look at the difference in velocity from different types of brass in the same rifle. Now imagine freebore variance, ambient temp and COAL just to name a few other factors.

[@tyson9539]

In your opinion, what would be an acceptable SD for a hunting load? 5, 10, 20 fps? also on average about how long did you have to wait per shot to keep your chamber temp the same?

[@vaughnprecision]

The SD would really depend on how far away your planning to hunt. The further out, the lower you'll want the numbers. I had to wait about 2-3 minutes between shots using the tool, without the tool I was waiting from 6-7 minutes.

[@tyson9539]

Vaughn Precision in a hunting situation the max distance shot I would take would be around 500yds, and that's only if I couldn't get closer

[@vaughnprecision]

If your max distance is 500 yards you don't have to worry to much. ES of 40-50 will still put you in the kill one at 500. However, the smaller the number the better off you are.

[@derrickhenderson4308]

I have a very confusing result from my attempt to follow this video. I am shooting a Tikka T3x in 6.5 Creedmoor with a 24in barrel. Using factory new Hornady brass and starting at 40gn of H4350 increasing by 0.2gn per round up to 41.8gn (Hornady manual lists 41.5 to be the max charge), I actually got a decreasing velocity trend. I cannot explain how with an increase in charge weight, the velocity is decreasing. All charges were weighed on t RCBS Chargemaster Lite warmed up and calibrated before use. Anyone got any ideas?

[@s.manuel7969]

Derrick Henderson Maybe it’s the chronograph you are using??

[@derrickhenderson4308]

@@s.manuel7969 I am very embarrassed to say that I figured out exactly what the problem was. I loaded the rounds out of my reloading block directly in to the magazine in the order I ordered them from lowest load to the highest. Thus, they were fired in reverse order. Complete knucklehead move.

[@s.manuel7969]

Derrick Henderson Ha! Ha! I thought about that!! At least you figured out what you did

[@rkwjunior2298]

Hahahaha funny stuff... You loaded ascending but it shoots out if the mag descending...lol

[@tjarmand]

how much would u charge me to put a rem700 la 300wm in one of those boyds thumbhole stock and do a full blown accuracy job on it???

[@vaughnprecision]

Tj Armand you’ll need to email me on that one

[@tjarmand]

what is your email?@@vaughnprecision

[@mattchaplin666]

Can you get it to repeat?

[@vaughnprecision]

Yep

[@weloveups831]

Part of Scott's process is to do a bullet jump node first. With that info you move into his 10 shot charge node.

[@ctoth18]

Actually he does velocity node then verifies the node with 5-10 shots . Then adjusts the seating for accuracy .

[@SantosGunworks]

@@ctoth18 Scott recently posted that he now does seating depth test first and then does the 10 round velocity testing.

[@gkornelson]

Did you do any additional testing at the 41.6gn node?

[@vaughnprecision]

Grant Kornelson yep, running super consistent

[@sd3gunner]

How long of barrel was used and in a bolt or ar10 for this data?

[@vaughnprecision]

Travis H 26-3/4” barrel from a bolt gun

[@sd3gunner]

Vaughn Precision wow how did you come up with the extra 3/4?

[@vaughnprecision]

Travis H I made the barrel and with some calculations I came out with between 26-27” for best results. So I made it 26-3/4 and it seems to have been a good choice. It punches .177 inch 5 Shot groups at 100 yards

[@mopardoctor9966]

To refine the test even more your brass should be equal weight. Easier to do than water volume.

[@rudolphferdinand3634]

How would you proceed in developing a load for an AR-10/15 using this loading procedure? With an AR-10/15, you need enough gas through the gas tube to operate the BGC.

[@redraiderreloading7612]

Is there a way to do this test without a chronograph ( got to have funds for that)

[@tadeloach22]

It is harder by far, but I have done it. Must shoot at 200 or more. Get a large poster board, draw it off in 4 or 5 vertical and 2 horizontal lines. Put a 1" sticky target at each intersection. Each target is a charge weight. Shot each weight, then use a ruler to connect the bullet holes. Flat velocity's should have a flat(er) line. When I did it, I had the charges that landed with almost zero vertical dispersion and the one before and after was around 1/5 to 1inch lower. I then did an ocw test at 100 yds with those three charges and the 1 before and after them and it confirmed the node. Seating depth made it clover leaf at 100

[@redraiderreloading7612]

@@tadeloach22 I got a chrono finally

[@tadeloach22]

@@redraiderreloading7612 what kind did you get? I'm going to get one

[@redraiderreloading7612]

@@tadeloach22 I got the magnetospeed sporter...

[@tadeloach22]

@@redraiderreloading7612 do you like it? That is what I was going to get.

[@macgyver5108]

Now that you know your node is at 2777 FPS you can also change brass and load those up to 2777 FPS and be spot on your accuracy node again to see which brass is more "accurate".

[@LoadsofBacon]

That difference based on mixed brass in the .243 was larger than I had expected. (We need to chat - when's a good time to call?)

[@vaughnprecision]

I'm free now if you got time. I'll be busy in a couple hours for the rest of the day.

[@northman77]

So... I need a chronograph!

[@Johnyrocket70]

Scott likes to take the highest node because it's the fastest, Scott has sponsor's to pay for his barrels and has the best gear. The rest of us usually run the lower 2 nodes to because we want more than 1,000 rnd barrel life & lower nodes are more reliable. The 2nd fastest node is the sweet spot for us non sponsored folks.

[@jeffreymiller5336]

Jealous much?!🙄

[@InvestorAcademyPodca]

It's very tricky declaring something a flat spot with only one sample per load. You could end up missing nodes or settling on a false node. A sample size of one really leads to misleading interpretations.

[@konighansen9062]

10 shot is 50 to o few

[@wldott]

I wouldn't exactly call this method new, heck it was taught to me over 20 years ago by the family friend that taught me how to reload.

[@vaughnprecision]

This is true, its newer to me but I've heard of this type of testing for years now.