Saucony Triumph 20 vs Saucony Tempus vs Saucony Endorphin Shift 3: What shoe do we go for?

[@wollymolly]

I got the Tempus at end of last year and recently picked up the Triumph 21 on sale. I typically like to run at approx. 5min/km pace, and occasionally pick up the pace a little, maybe 4 :40min/km. At that pace I have to give it to the Tempus any day. I think some people were a bit quick to dismiss the Tempus, especially if not used to stability shoes. After some break in, they softened up a little and kinda moulded themselves to my feet and the more I ran in them, I really grew to appreciate the stability aspects. They are significantly more responsive, lighter and more stable than the Triumph. Having said that, nothing wrong with the Triumph, they remind me to do that low heartrate training that everyone is talking about. They are soft, super comfortable and great for cruisy long runs. :)

[@RussRunning]

After having some stability issues in speed 3's, I just ran the New York City Marathon in a pair of Tempus, and they were comfortable and bouncy all the way 👍

[@tsubakichan]

I just picked it up as a marathon racer, since I don't like having plates. I'll see how it treats me in 2023!

[@englishgarden2036]

Does the Tempus have good medial support and a large toe-box?

[@FoxBox72]

@@englishgarden2036 yes, large toe box. Fairly wide midfoot. Medial support is there but not as sturdy as some others. I think my Guide 15 is much more supportive, but then much firmer and less responsive than Tempus.

[@Dybvad1992]

@@tsubakichan How did they hold up mate? :) considering to buy it

[@tsubakichan]

@@Dybvad1992 I've had my Tempus for a few months now but haven't put a single run in them yet...

[@rossfripp4503]

Just one little request if possible - when doing reviews and giving the stats, as well as the drop would you be able to start giving information on the stack height? I think that would be very good :)

[@michaelgriffiths305]

Guys thank you for helping clear this up. Saucony looking highly likely to be brand of the year for 2022. However, it was only when Tom finally said around 11:45 into this video and again at 15:25 "the tempus should replace the Shift" this made sense. I've been unsure what to buy for my next everyday trainer with a Hoka Bondi/Clifton at home. It's clear Saucony are pushing the envelope online their R&D department. Maybe theircR&D and marketing dept just had a comms breakdown on the Tempus and Shift. Tom's right... stick the speed roll Tech into the tempus (with ammendments) and bin the Shift! That way their would be an everyday trainer - Triumph with three exceptional faster trainers in the endorphin range - IMO! My conclusion from this video is, I'll buy the the Triumph 20!

[@grantmckay7014]

Triumph 20 has been sooo much better than than my Hoka Clifton 8s or Mach 4s.

[@nicklas6973]

Have the shift 3s. Love it. It’s perfect for my foot strike( low cadence/ midfoot to forefoot). Lots of forefoot stack then rolls effortlessly. Not a fan of squishy midsole with the sinking feel. The shift 3s just rolls.

[@meta4four]

I disagree that the Tempus would be better served "replacing" the Shift 3 in the Endorphin line. To me, it makes complete sense if you think of the Endorphin series as a LINE, in which case the Shift 3 seems to be very deliberately meant to offer a complimentary but DIFFERENT ride and running dynamic that would work in TANDEM with the Speed 3 and Pro 3 in a hypothetical training rotation. For one, it's a 4mm drop shoe which gives a beneficial variance over the 8mm Speed 3 and Pro 3. This seems very deliberate. Secondly, the firmer PWRRUN midsole one again provides variance which in a rotation would actually make the Speed 3 and Pro 3 "pop" more by comparison with their bouncier and more energetic PWRRUNPB. The Shift 3 is clearly meant to be a slower pace daily trainer while the Speed 3 would be the one to do any tempo training in. Then, on race day you lace up the Pro 3. The SPEEDROLL geometry obviously links all three shoes together. Now, when you compare the Tempus to the Speed 3 in particular, what do you see? It's the exact same 8mm drop with almost the exact same overall stack height. It has the exact same PWRRUNPB midsole....with a bit of PWRRUN rails for the stability aspect. So basically, it's a slightly heavier version of the Speed 3 with no plate and added stability. So what's the point of it being in the Endorphin line then? Same offset, almost identical stack height, almost identical midsole....do you see why this makes very little sense? Why would I buy both the Tempus and the Speed 3? The entire point of the Shift 3 is that it enables the same running motion (SPEEDROLL) as it's faster siblings, but gives the user training variance due to the offset and firmer ride. It actually makes a lot of sense.

[@karlprincl6604]

Good question, great post. I picked up the Pro 3, Speed 3, and Shift 3. I like the Shift 3, but it feels a bit lifeless and difficult to turn over and I still question whether I should have gone Tempus or Triumph. Can’t help but feel the Shift’s geometry helps form, and complements the Pro/Speed. Time will tell ;) I picked up the Speed 3 Runshield and will grab the Triumph 20 RunShield when it comes out. Winter running is both cold and messy in Canada, and our temperatures are not kind to EVA based foams such as PowerRun.

[@thomasvg4371]

Your post flipped the coin for me. Thank you so much! I have the speeds and just bought the shifts and I really love the different feels of the rides. And I think the Shifts are beasts who just awaits to unfold . Love em.

[@meta4four]

@@thomasvg4371 You're welcome! I found that they really softened up for me after ~75-100KM. They seem to get better the more you run in them. I think a lot of people are so entrenched in running in "super plush" shoes these days such that anything that immediately doesn't feel soft out of the box comes off as "bad". It's unfortunate because the Shift 3 is a really solid shoe that gets better with use and will last a long time.

[@RunForPeace-hk1cu]

100% agree. Shift 3 is designed to slow down the paces so you the runner don't end up running their long / easy / moderate runs too fast. Speed 3 is designed for tempo / moderate - medium pace runs Pro 3 is designed for race day / intervals / quality sessions.

[@kellypoor]

I just bought the Shift 2, got em on sale for $70, when I put them on they felt horrible, stiff and blocky but I thought give them a chance, so I ran a couple miles and I felt good, no pains or aches. I will give them a chance, maybe the more use they get the better they will feel.

[@helpdesk8770]

Same experience here! They need time....however I have the "yuck" feeling, everytime I reach for them!! But I know they'll come good.

[@mbikerun5]

I love the Shift 2. I find the firm supportive foam to be better for me, especially when ramping up the miles. I have enjoyed them from the start, but I do think they get better and better the more miles I put on them.

[@chrisvanbuggenum871]

Such a good idea for a video, i must not have been the only person that is confused with the line up. So many shoes! What is each for?? Looking forward to this one.

[@gregmm872]

This is the video I’ve been waiting for 🙏

[@gosekinz]

this is really useful for me sticking with Endorphin mean the Shift .. but comparison is very welcome - thanks much!

[@karlprincl6604]

@TheRunTesters, Thanks for this review; I believe I asked for this one :) I have the Pro 3, Speed 3, Speed 3 RunShield, and the Shift 3; it was tough to pick the Shift 3 over the Triumph 20 and Tempus. My concern with the Triumph was stability; it’s so soft. The Shift 3 is a really good shoe, and much softer than the Shift 2 (which I had used through 2022). The rocker… have to agree with Nick; it is hard to get into sync with the shoe, and it feels slow and lifeless, but my runs in them have actually been a good 15-30 sec/KM faster than I expected or felt. The Tempus felt firmer than the Shift 3 for me; I’m surprised you recommended it for easy runs. Going to have to go back and try it again. Nice review! Hope you do more like this!

[@mikebonsall2449]

The Triumph is most certainly soft but I've not experienced any issues with stability. The upper provides a really secure and supportive lockdown fit and the shoe a fairly wide platform. Compared to the Speed 2, way more stable when tight cornering, running on uneven surfaces etc.

[@TheRunTesters]

Thanks Karl!

[@c.e.m7535]

Nice breakdown mates. 🎉. Cheers.

[@TruTube.1.]

Happy with my Tempus

[@seanbolger7371]

Should you have included the Ride 15 in this comparison?

[@TheRunTesters]

We see that more as a daily trainer really, with less cushioning than these, but the distinction isn't huge you're right. Though three shoes already took us a while, not sure we're ready for a four-shoe Vs!

[@dwayneflynn1151]

I supinate on my left foot netural on my right would the tempus work for someone like that. is there stable on both sides to help keep ya straight or would ya recommend a shoe. thanks

[@mehdie7822]

I have triumph 17 and 3 days ago buy hoka clifton 9 I think triumph 17 is more comfortable shos Do you think so ?

[@margaretblake5051]

thank you for your video. It looks like you are a midfoot striker; i am a heel striker. can you talk about this in future videos?

[@drumrunner72]

Great reviews guys 👍🏻 What would you recommend as a long run / marathon shoe for someone who needs a bit of stability please?

[@cameronthaijohnson]

The Tempus is totally fine for people that run in neutral shoes because the stability isn't intrusive, but I do actually prefer the Triumph 20 still. The Triumph 20 feels a little softer and bouncier for me because of the Pwrrun frame on the Tempus and I think the main thing is that it feels a little bit more nimble and easy to transition and roll forward. The Tempus feels a bit wide and flat for me. I think the Triumph's narrower midfoot helps. Haven't run in the new Shift because I don't like Pwrrun.

[@multisportflash]

Helpful perspective thanks (though would skinny footed Nick ;-) not have commented on the width issue?)

[@cameronthaijohnson]

@@multisportflash It's not an issue with the wideness in the fit. The fit is fine. I mean that the wideness of the midsole at midfoot, flatter geometry, and stable Pwrrun frame make the ride a bit more dull, flat, and bulky compared to the Triumph 20.

[@multisportflash]

@@cameronthaijohnson ah gotcha. Many thanks again.

[@slen6293]

Triumph 20 has pwrrun in it…

[@cameronthaijohnson]

@@slen6293 Nope. No Pwrrun. All Pwrrun+.

[@jervisq2605]

I will prefer the shoe character which like ground contact energy exchange quickly to kick power.

[@matwillox2849]

I love my 20s!! But laces were mad short… did you notice the same? I can barely tie them once

[@mikebonsall2449]

Agree about the laces. I have a reasonably wide foot. No problems at all with the upper (perfect fit) but I can't even double knot the laces. Thankfully they're great laces and stay secure with just the single knot. Lockdown is great, so no need for runners knot (impossible).

[@TheRunTesters]

Not something I've (Nick) noticed, but I do have a narrow foot and tend to have the opposite problem with laces!

[@gilbertobaisch3473]

@@mikebonsall2449 agreed. I felt the same…🤷‍♂️

[@matwillox2849]

@@TheRunTesters oh okay. Maybe I’ll do as Mike suggested and skip the runners knot and put faith in the single haha. Thanks for the video and the reply.

[@siddharthbose1987]

I have noticed that the Endorphin Speed 3 bottoms out on the forefoot region for me (m a 200lbs runner), will it be the same in the tempus?

[@jason.rams4]

That's always one of my biggest concerns also with reviews, not knowing how it will react to my weight, 190lbs plus I'm heavy footed, and don't get the same "bounce and energy" as explained in some shoes.

[@anujphadke9785]

Tempus is really nice but m getting only one problem with it ..the arch support really dig me bad n give me blister all the time ..i need to use blister tapes to use tempus but overall ride of that shoes is great i run my mostly runs in this ..that's why thinking to get triumph 20 also

[@swenderich]

Interesting comparison! I haven’t been able to try the Tenpus yet. I like both the Triumph and the Shift for my easy runs (but would pick them for going faster). I am looking for a new non-plated versatile tempo shoe though ghat can handle anything from long runs with some marathon pqce thrown in to threshold sessions. The speed 3 is often my go to for those sessions, but I also want a non-plated option. It used to be the Pegasus Turbo. I occasionally used the Hoka Rincon and the Saucony Kinvara, but I’d love a bit more snappyness than the former and a bit more cushioning for the long runs than the latter. I was contemplating the Hoka Mach 5, but the Tempus sounds like an option too. Which of these two would you recommend? Or something entirely different perhaps?

[@TheRunTesters]

Hi Sander! I'd (Nick) say the Hoka Mach 5 would be perfect for what you're after, that's exactly how I enjoyed using it most. The Tempus is good, but not as snappy for the threshold stuff.

[@swenderich]

@@TheRunTesters thanks a lot Nick, Mach 5 it'll be then!

[@gustavogo2915]

@@swenderich hoka sucks. Worst shoes I’ve tried in my life. Only good hoka that existed was the original Rincons

[@swenderich]

@@gustavogo2915 haha, you’re not a Hoka fan obviously 😂 Have to agree on the Rincon though: good shoe. I have enjoyed a lot of miles in the Evo Speedgoat as well though. Most Hoka’s don’t do it for me either, but it seems there are a few exceptions in their line up that I’m willing to give a chance!

[@io-rj6sk]

is it true that triumph is the softest and tempus the most firm out of these 3 shoes?

[@Новое-л6т]

You said that there are more cushioning models then Saucony. Which models did you mean?

[@xophaser]

everybody's fit is different. I have a wider feet and flatter arc. Saucony is the worst, they are narrower and Tempus has the hardest arch support compared to endorphin. I guess most runners have narrower feet. I just like foam for walking and some exercise.

[@Alan-Smith]

How do they differ in the area of arch support? I have quite low arches

[@notmyrealname6272]

I love Saucony but oh my I couldn’t STAND the triumph. (19 not 20). It was like slippers and I immediately had a return of hip pain I hadn’t had for years. Love every single other shoe of theirs I’ve ever used. Weird.

[@ferdyceplok_]

Can you WRITE all the RESULT OF COMPARASSION? because the viewers that cant speak/fluent in english can READ it? (For us with cant speak english properly is too difficult when hear VS read) sorry my english bad...thanks

[@mr.h.9103]

So which of these would you recommend for a wide foot runner that is also a heavy supinator? I have gotten better with my running form over the years, but yea I still favor under pronation.

[@emilianomontanari283]

sono passato dalle mizuno alle triumph 20 e mi si sono gonfiate le ginocchia! Corro in maniera sbagliata perché non sento l’asfalto

[@multisportflash]

Very helpful ... though now you make me want to at least try the Tempus just to see how it feels. I supinate on my mid-foot strike and probably due to unconscious protection of my chronic insertional Achilles tendinopathy on the medial side of the calcaneum, tend to stay lateral and not pronate inwards. Honest question: would the Tempus keep me too far outwards then (when referring to the "stability" aspect of it?) i.e. is the stability made more for pronators? Loved the feel of the Triumph20 in-store and was going to go for that until you planted that damn Tempus seed .... ;-)

[@TheRunTesters]

So I'd (Nick) probably steer you towards the excellent Doctors of Running for a question like that, but for me since it's a full guidance frame rather than just medial support I think it should be OK? But if you love the feel of the Triumph, I'd go for that if choosing here, no better guide to what shoe to get than if you enjoy using it!

[@mr.h.9103]

This is my exact question. Coming off surgery to correct Heel Spurs and Achilles debridement/reattachment. I tried the Triumph 20 on, but need a wide. I was able to wear the normal width of the 19 and really loved that shoe. I am just curious, coming off that injury, and with a lot of easy miles in front of me for the next 6 months, if the Tempus can help a tired old supinator stay on form better?

[@TheHutchRuns]

I use my Speed 3 for everything but races, would any of these shoes be better suited to, say, easy or long runs and be worth investing in?

[@TheRunTesters]

If you're happy in the Speed I'd (Nick) say there's little reason to invest in one of these unless you want to save your Speeds!

[@TheHutchRuns]

@@TheRunTesters thanks Nick, I could just invest in another pair of Speed 3 🤷‍♂️😁

[@TheRunTesters]

Haha yeah very true!

[@sergioaparicio957]

@@TheRunTesters I do love my speed 3 and use them for everything too, but I am looking for a rotation shoe that is cushioned and "bouncy" but not plush... between Triumph and Tempus, Tempus is the one?

[@fraktalfox]

Do you think it’s worth picking up the Triumph 20 for £65? I would like to use it mainly for my long runs.

[@John_Wood_]

thats some value

[@miraldiana4305]

Which one is the best for daily trainer especially easy run ?

[@aliasgharkhoyee9501]

Take your pick between the Triumph and Tespus. Both are good quality and versatile for various types of runs and training. Triumph is slightly softer, and Tempus slightly more responsive.

[@watcharakulworasarn]

Why is the Speed 3 not part of this comparison instead of the Shift 3? Would love to know how the other 2 compares to the Soeed.

[@NiCo-87]

Because the Speed is designed for another type of use. If I put the Speed and the Triumph in the same video it would not be to compare them as they are completely different. Perhaps to show how they complement each other.

[@keno.bowman9079]

Howdy you handle the 4mm drop? I usually run in 8mm.

[@stefanokurniawan2856]

Hii everyone! Anyone can help me what type of saucony fit to me I will use it just for long walking maybe 2 hours, and i have flat foot What type i must buy? Tempus or triumph? Or anything else?

[@Trailrunner1978]

How is the Triumph 20 compared to the Triumph 18?

[@brendanwhalen40]

The 20 is much lighter, more bouncy than the 18 but slightly less stable

[@tigerjazz61]

I guess I’m spoiled now as these three shoes don’t even appear on my consideration list. Speed 2 is still my all time favorite.

[@tigerjazz61]

Better options in this category from New Balance and Asics.

[@dbo4506]

@@tigerjazz61 in your opinion sure. IMO speed 2 are absolute garbage. Triumph 20s are great, endorphin pro 3 are phenomenal, ASICS as a whole are garbage. Subjective my dude.

[@tigerjazz61]

@@dbo4506 each to his own. Just sharing my personal experiences with the shoes reviewed and you are correct, it’s all subjective based on individual experiences. Makes it interesting!

[@tigerjazz61]

@@dbo4506 just curious though. What did you hate so much about the Speed 2’s??

[@gustavogo2915]

@@tigerjazz61 he didn’t reply because he’s a clown and doesn’t know what good running shoes are.

[@davidzlotnick1899]

Than you for the great video and content Besides for wear and tear - is there a downside to using the speed 3 for long - easy runs compared with the triumph or tempus ? I.e Cushioning for example Thanks!

[@aliasgharkhoyee9501]

Due to the plate (even though it's nylon, not as tough as carbon) and resulting non-flexibility, I think your feet will be sore in the Speed quicker than non-plate shoes like these.

[@Tmus228]

No guied 15 ?

[@FarazSyed-ke2cv]

The endorphin shift 3 feels way less cushiony then the nb supercomp trainer

[@ptlewis2000]

One of the few who doesn't use (or like) the Tempus as a "speed" shoe, other than maybe uptempo long runs. It's a great daily rotating with your go-to stability shoe (GT 2000 for me) and uptempo long run shoe. But still need another option for speed/tempo with more stability than the speed. Currently using Hyperion Tempo, DS Trainer, Kinvara 12, Zoom Fly 4, and older Endorphin Pro's. The shift however has become the go to recovery shoe. The lower heel drop and firm high stack is amazing for true recovery days (much slower than easy pace). The Tempus doesn't belong in the Endorphin range because it lacks the rocker, but still think the Shift is supposed to be in the range because it's better for TRUE easy and recovery days. So now I love the shift for recovery and prefer it over any shoe, including Kayano.

[@ipreet6850]

honestly shift series is disaster , triumph is probably best with speed 3

[@SimonSez83]

How are you guys not falling asleep talking to each other?

[@aliasgharkhoyee9501]

Ouch.

[@helpdesk8770]

Can't say too much about the Triumph or Tempus, but from what I have seen, nothing feels like the Nike Invincible 2. My personal experience with the Invincible 2, was wow! I couldn't believe how quick it was, considering it looks like a monster! My next two shoes later in 2023 will be the Tempus and Mach 5

[@comodice905]

Mœtořhëäḍ

[@GradoRuns]

Guys, we need to get rid of the annoying jazz music. Couldn’t watch. Awful

[@TheRunTesters]

What sort of music would you like?