Sautillé bow stroke on the cello

[@stuntdouble777]

Thank you.That was a great lesson.

[@sherryweng3622]

Congratulations Dr.Fiste，you have your own KZbin channel !!🎉🎉🎉 Nice video!

[@CelloProfessor]

Thank you, Sherry! I hope you are doing well!

[@stevenj9970]

Great explanation and demo! Piatigorsky also mentioned the motion as such if one had a string placed through a small metal washer and holding both ends of the string while making it spin clockwise (while pronating the hand) you get the same feeling (down dropping/up lifting)

[@CelloProfessor]

That's a great analogy. Yes, there is a resulting clockwise circle in the hand, isn't there? And in the controlled spiccato, the circle in the hand is counterclockwise. It's a good point! Thank you for watching!

[@CelloTube-vs7mf]

You claim that the forearm is the active mover and the wrist only moves passively, as a reslut of the forearm moving at the elbow joint. This results in a horizontal movement of the forearm when the arm is in playing position when sitting at the cello. We would then assume that the wrist/hand is going to follow in the same direction and move horizontally as well. However, when I slow down the video and watch you play, it is clear that your wrist is moving more up and down rather than horizontally. Since you claim that the wrist only moves passively in a sautillé stroke, as a result of a horizontal forearm motion, how do you explain that your wrist moves verticaly when playing?

[@CelloProfessor]

Actually, I say that the forearm goes at a 45-degree angle in sautille, which results in a vertical motion (watch from 4:49) The vertical motion of the forearm would cause a passive wrist motion in the same direction, resulting in sautille. A strict forearm detache would be horizontal. So yes, your observation is correct that in sautille there is a vertical motion in the wrist. Thank you for watching!

[@CelloTube-vs7mf]

​@@CelloProfessor Thank you for responding! Your wrist is at a 45 degree angle, yes. But the point of your elbow is clearly more at a 90 degree angle. And in that position, you simply can't produce vertical moment of the forearm by hinging at the elbow joint (which is how you claim that the stroke is generated around 2:12). Instead, here it can only be produced by moving your arms with your rotator cuffs and other shoulder muscles. As the elbow can only produce a vertical motion of the forearm when it is down by your side, like when doing a bicep curl in the gym. So this is all making me confused. On one hand, you seem to be saying to hinge at the forearm, but on another to move the forearm vertically. Should we hinge at the elbow joint horizontally, while at the same time move the forearm vertically with the shoulder muscles? Or should we just use one of the motions?

[@CelloProfessor]

​@CelloTube-vs7mf The elbow would not need to be at the side to produce the 45-degree angle. It just needs to be down a bit. I just watched me play the Sautille stroke in slow motion, and it looks to me that the forearm is not moving horizontally. This is because my elbow is lower compared to a forearm detache. I am definitely not using my rotator cuff muscles. Now, when doing the exercises (left side of string, right side of string) I am using some rotator cuff muscles because the motion is exaggerated. But when the motion is smaller that is no longer necessary; the passive motion in the wrist at the proper angle takes care of it. So I guess I'm not seeing what you are seeing, even when I play it back in slow mo.

[@CelloProfessor]

@@CelloTube-vs7mf Having said all of that (this is an additional follow up response) you could add some rotator cuff movement. Thus would have the added benefit of promoting a circular motion in the forearm and hand

[@CelloTube-vs7mf]

Thanks once again for the detailed response! Just to be clear, I didn't mean to say that the arm always has to be down at the side to produce vertical moment at the forearm. But that if you intend to do so via hinging at the elbow, then it does have to be down at your side. Now, I agree that your forearm isn't moving horizontally and this is what I tried to point out in my original comment. In fact, it seems to be close to stationary, where as the wrist on the other hand is moving a lot more, and in a up and down motion (flexing and extending at the wrist joint, although at a 45 degree angle relative to the string). This is not what I would expect, since you explanation of the stroke is a vertical movement of the forearm , achieved via hinging at the elbow joint, resulting in a passive motion of the wrist. So simply put, it looks like the wrist is what is moving primarily, and the forearm and shoulders seem to be relatively less active. Now, if the stroke is genereated the way you explain it to be, why don't we see more motion at the forearm and/or shoulder? And how come so much more movement at the wrist? Hope I am able to get my point across.