Save our F**kING comics!

#FormerNetworkExec #CallMeChato #comics
#boundingintocomics' interesting article featuring Mark Millar suggests that the legends of comic book artists and writers return to save DC and Marvel. Will it fix superhero burnout ?
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[@funnypicturescomics]

The old guard was literally shown the door over the past few years. They owe these companies NOTHING.

[@SGTDave]

Agreed. More than half of them have been blacklisted and libeled. Besides, DC and Marvel can't afford real talent anymore.

[@fattiger6957]

Don't forget that their (much less talented and significantly lower-paid) replacements spent the last decade crapping on everything those old guarder spent years building.

[@IdentifiantE.S]

You all have 💯 right !

[@TheGallivantingScrutinizer]

exactly!

[@drgonzotalks]

They need to go indie. I will still buy a Chuck Dixon comic.

[@ninjabreadman8166]

The writers of the last 12 years have gone out of their way to attack their legacy consumer base, and the newer writers have waged war against the characters and canons they became stewards of.

[@yankee1376]

Marxism then : turgid prose. Marxism now: turgid art.

[@ronniepatterson2827]

@@yankee1376 Dont forget Socialism, Wokeism, & all the other ism's. All that shit ties into each other ya know?

[@MrGamman3yt]

China and the 4 Olds. Look it up. Racism is Marxism now. Chato, thanks!

[@JoJo-vg8dz]

​@@yankee1376 Marxism and communism have absolutely nothing to do with wokism. China is not woke, contrary to the capitalist US.

[@JoJo-vg8dz]

The owners of Marvel hate super heroes and the fans of super heroes. They are just activists who follow a woke agenda, so they need to acquire platforms to brainwash youth.

[@richardkev3077]

Superhero fatigue? Possibly. Terrible movie fatigue? Absolutely.

[@dennisswaim8210]

Exactly right. Its lousy movie fatigue not superhero fatigue. That's always been the issue, good story telling always stands up. Crappy storytelling has poor results.

[@JohnFourtyTwo]

Agreed 💯 plus pick a franchise and remove superhero and it works that way also.👍

[@zephodb]

If we want to follow 'the past on movie type fatigue', what it really is when directors come to the conclusion 'they know how to tell an X film', stop trying to get the attention of the audience and create according to other methodologies... Then the performance of these films start to do worse over time, until 'Oh noes, you just can't make these film types anymore!' (Read: Pirate/Naval films were considered obsolete for a long time, then came along the 'Pirates of the Caribbean series)... They don't analyze what made these films terrible over time (lousy film fatigue) and instead blame the genre and move on. It is extremely short-sighted but exactly what Hollywood does.

[@MadsterV]

When Rotten Tomatoes started cherry-picking reviews and Corporate media and any other places we used to look to gauge if a movie was going to be good started putting out paid-for reviews, while the movies started being bland and preachy, we ran into the same situation that caused the videogame crash of the 80's. Too many bad products and no proper consumer information to find the good ones. Thus, the consumer decided the whole thing was not worth it. It's just entertainment. we can live without it.

[@militarymarch3006]

I think it was Mark Steyn many years ago who said the problem with modern filmmakers is that they know a lot about filmmaking but nothing about life. This is true about every aspect of the entertainment industry.

[@dragonknightleader1]

That's a good point. Modern movies have fantastic cinematography and color grading, but have terrible characters and stories.

[@JohnFourtyTwo]

@@dragonknightleader1Agreed 💯 they’re too busy pushing their personal agendas down our throats instead of giving us something entertaining so we can forget real life for a couple hours.

[@dragonknightleader1]

@@JohnFourtyTwo Even if I agreed with the propaganda, which I don't, the stories are junk.

[@TheMyrmo]

While I don't have anything against the old great writers and artists, the real problem here is editorial gatekeeping. It isn't that there are NO talented writers and artists of this generation, it's that no one will publish them. Which is why the "publishing industry" is dying.

[@IdentifiantE.S]

Nice resume 🤝

[@nalublackwater9729]

And when they do they constantly try to bring them down and ruin their lives forever. See Eric July for an example.

[@RambleOn07]

​@@nalublackwater9729they probably are going after Eric July because he completely sidestepped them and showed how pointless they are.

[@abloshow91]

You can only change from the insides. Throwing stones from the outside only breaks a bunch of windows

[@mechajay3358]

Exactly, the people running DC and Marvel are keeping out actual talent

[@ahuehuete4703]

I saw the late George Perez at a local comic con some years ago in a spotlight panel. During the Q&A session someone asked George if DC would fix the current iteration of Teen Titans and make it good again. George reminded the audience that there are decades worth of old Teen Titans, some of it his and Marv Wolfman's and it was mostly available in Omnibus format. In effect, he was telling us to boycott the new junk and read the old stuff.

[@billgates334]

I buy back issues. Won't even look at the new stuff. It's sad.

[@aracelymoran2504]

+ @ahuehuete4703 Exactly. That is all you have to do.

[@celluloidtherapy5003]

I really, REALLY hate to sound negative, but I fear that it might be too late to save comic books. The problem is, that *apathy* has set in, and it’s deep. Once your core audience abandons ship, it takes a Herculean effort to win them back, and even that might be for naught. It’s not a stretch, to say that I have been completely heartbroken over the hijacking of, what in *many* ways, is my YOUTH. I simply cannot separate the art, from the artist, and that is a *HUGE* problem…

[@bsharp3281]

I for one am apathetic. But I must admit that if I heard there was a new Iron Man movie and it was great, I'd be right back in. Movie "fatigue" is just a marketing term to cover for lack of talent

[@1Gr8Editrix]

Probably the wokesters are hoping for apathy in order to push their agenda. They figure the current youth will be too alienated from the past culture, or ignorant, and embrace the current garbage.

[@geekmastermind]

Sadly, I agree. I have lost all hope, and all heart, for comic books. At least the "big" ones; I'm enjoying Rippa's work, but I still really miss Captain America, Batman, etc.

[@celluloidtherapy5003]

@@bsharp3281 Yeah, I might be open to trying it out, but man, the feelings of anger, and really *abandonment,* are REALLY tough to overcome…I have been actively boycotting Disney,ever since the Carano incident. I’m not sure there exists, a way back for me.

[@celluloidtherapy5003]

@@geekmastermind You feel cheated. You feel like they cast you aside, and basically abandoned you, after you invested SO much time, SO much feeling into these characters, and they wasted no time in completely destroying them. Right now, as deep as I dig, I just can’t find forgiveness. If there was a monumental, SINCERE effort to restore what they have broken, then maybe. Now? I can’t see it. I can’t see them trying to do anything, that isn’t soley for their own benefit.

[@dancinggodzilla2169]

Chuck Dixon has said he will not take the pay cut. I have a feeling other old school comic creators will agree with him.

[@ahuehuete4703]

Chuck is publishing new stuff under the Arkhaven label.

[@billgates334]

I'm not sure what his rate is, but they need to figure out what works. Same with the writers and actors. The pie is big enough for everybody.

[@mindandbody7971]

To help revitalize Marvel and DC so they can stay in pole position for another 80 years? I want to see a number with a lot of zeroes behind it on that check for the work necessary.

[@craigcochrane2284]

Completely agree Chato. Unless the first thing they do is jettison the people who have systematically destroyed the industry (in under 10 years) and the cronies who towed the 'party line' and went along with it, any attempt to save comics will fail. What Marvel, DC and the rest don't understand is that fans don't have to swallow their garbage - we can just emigrate to woke-free Manga books. I gave up caring the activists do to characters I loved and the comics I supported, long ago. At a certain amount of rot you just have to accept you can't fix this and let it go.

[@MrGamman3yt]

China and the 4 Olds. It's how they brainwash the youth, and swoop in.

[@jiszmo6668]

I'll tell you how to Make Comics Great Again. Put comic wracks back into regular stores. Even before I collected them (when younger), I used to always end up buying comics as an impulse item. When I was a kid, you couldn't even go into any type of store without encountering a comic book rack. Grocery stores, gas stations, drug stores, corner stores, laundry mats, libraries. Comic wracks were moved out of regular stores by around 2000. Comics was a phenomenon from the 1940s-1990s. Since then comic books have been a pale shadow of the major media source that they once were. Now it is pretty much a dead media, only sold in specialty comic book shops.

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

They were for destroying everything from the past and succeeded.

[@MrGamman3yt]

Gee, now why would they want to do that? Who would benefit? Read up on a the murdering guys 90s manifesto. The guy in a hut, who went to Harvard. It's frightening how accurate it is/was. 90s predicted this.

[@johnnyjamboogie6614]

What this industry needs is an enema! Bring in the legends afterwards.

[@AvengerII]

Why soitanly! You discovered a NEW USE for the shit that ain't sellin'! Nyuck nyuck nyuck!

[@DanyTV79]

If they still printing the kind of crap along the good, nothing is going to really change, it just can become a gimmick. Great video. 👍

[@บัวสีโรเจอร์-ศ9ฝ]

Arthur Suydam's 'The Adventures of Cholly and Flytrap' published in Epic Illustrated back in the '80s was one of the best things I've seen. The artwork was gorgeous and the story was great as well. In earlier times, Barry Windsor-Smith's work with Conan was equally impressive. Jack Kirby produced amazing work for both DC and Marvel. This is what is missing in comics now, I don't want to see my heroes going through all the mundane stuff I have to go through.

[@RambleOn07]

So, you don't want to read long paragraphs with Wolverine and Cyclops having girl talk over successive visits to various restaurants? There is just no pleasing you.

[@บัวสีโรเจอร์-ศ9ฝ]

@@RambleOn07 🤣

[@joshuamaurer9784]

It's not even just their terrible writing and art that need to change. The model used for selling comics hasn't changed with the times, and there are no more news stands or any where else that sell comics. It's hard to get them, and most are only in comic shops, which are closing up more and more. They're completely marketing to the wrong demographic, scewing far older. They need to get back to selling to young boys and getting comics into spaces with more eyeballs on them. And that goes along with firing all current Marvel/DC staff for legends and new artists/writers. And to top it all off, corporate attitudes have to change or this is going no where but the grave.

[@fattiger6957]

Seems like digital would be the way to go if they want younger readers, but the industry (and the die-hard old fans) despise digital and just plain don't understand it.

[@jc7997aj]

Sometimes that is the problem with the ip/genre "growing up" with the audience. Which is ok to a degree but fails to get in younger folk and those younger folk are getting on board at a more mature level than the previous generation which can lead to its own troubles.

[@celluloidtherapy5003]

I used to buy ALL of my comics, from 7-11. It was the old spinner racks, that I used to run to, spin, and pick-up virtually *everything* that was new. Such special, exciting times. A lot of the blame, goes to Steve Geppi too. Dealing with his company, was like dealing with the mob. I was enjoying the hard times he was/still is having…

[@celluloidtherapy5003]

@@fattiger6957 I still think that the younger generation, appreciates the printed medium more than they are given credit for. The insistence on pushing digital comic books, and the “that’s what the kids want” narrative, is all propaganda from greedy publishers. They said vinyl was dead. They said DVD’s, and Blu-ray’s were dead. Yet, they are roaring back to life. Giving real money, for such an intangible product, gets old pretty fast.

[@fattiger6957]

@@celluloidtherapy5003 I can't say I know. I don't have kids so I have no idea what they're into. I highly doubt anyone younger than 30 are buying physical music or films. And I'd bet the decline of physical games in favour of digital is from younger people. I just assume kids, who have grown up with all digital distribution most of their entertainment, would be more receptive to digital distribution of comics.

[@amanzeihedioha]

Legends? Yes. But don't ignore the next generation. Web Comics, manga, manhua, and manhwa. Let's face it, mainstream comics are a joke.

[@MK_ULTRA420]

If you're into BL dramas I guess...

[@MrGamman3yt]

Mainstream anything. Wall Street execs would sell their moms for money. Advertising HQ is out of NYC. Advertising is lying. All public companies are out of NYC. Lying has been rampant for decades, and accepted.

[@Kinosis79]

Yeah, exactly. I switched to manga and manhwa and haven't looked back. I actually enjoy reading again and love the new characters.

[@Questara]

I honestly at one point purchased 30 different series split between Marvel and DC a month, but yes, about 12 years ago, the stories started changing and the portrayal of the characters as well. By 10 years ago, I was down to 10 series, then shortly after that, none. I pick up the occasional comic here and there, but mostly the overall tone drove me away.

[@Roykirk]

Love your use of "unmutual" in some videos, including this one. "The Prisoner" is another classic show that has supreme relevance in this day and age. Maybe even moreso than when it was released.

[@OmegaPaladin144]

Be seeing you

[@fattiger6957]

The problem with Mark's idea is, who's going to take over after the legendary creators leave or die? Due to the absolute decimation the clique who had infected comics in the last decade or so, the industry has lost a whole generation of creators. The best comic creators that popped up after Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were all fans. They grew up with comics and aspired to create them. And there was a good pool to choose from because comics were booming. Those people eventually got jobs at Marvel and DC and learned through an apprenticeship-like period before they took over the reins. Now comics sell like crap and the readership is tiny. The parasites that have gotten jobs at DC and Marvel don't GAF about comics and never have. So many indie comics come off like people trying to use the medium as a backdoor into a Hollywood or streaming deal. So the real problem going into the future (if comics even has a future) is finding young people who actually want to write them. (I suppose Marvel and DC can just become companies that publish fake manga to appeal to all the weebs who are actually passionate about that form of sequential art)

[@teastrainer3604]

Yep. The Beatles were huge fans of people like Buddy Holly, Carl Perkins and Elvis. If you're not a fan of your predecessors, you're going to suck.

[@dbudmartin]

Nice choice of comic for your thumbnail, a classic Michelinie/Layton Iron Man issue.

[@crosscutgames]

Always correct, Prof. Chato. I believe the fall of comics happened sometime shortly after the 80's or 90's - it's been going on for a few decades. Marvel and DC on screen followed the same trajectory - just at an accelerated speed. There's no turning back and no sign of a rebirth.

[@zoppie]

In Japan, the manga industry tackles all sorts of subjects. It is considered a legitimate form of literature, like any other. If one thing doesn't appeal to you, maybe the other will. In this manner, they cover all bases and there is something for everyone's tastes. With very few exceptions, the American comic book industry has always focused on superheroes. And I understand why. Kids love 'em. It sells. I bought comic books because I grew up in a pre-streaming, pre-home video era. It was like owning a cartoon I could watch anywhere, no TV needed. Of course, things are very different now, but the comic industry hasn't changed all that much. What they need to do is to branch out, like Japan does. Offer the type of entertainment that one simply cannot get on TV, streaming, or on Blu-ray. If there is an audience for gay romance, give that audience what it wants as long as it is willing to support that genre. Don't focus on it at the _expense_ of other genres.

[@charlesratcliff2016]

I love my OG comics. I love what Eric July has done by creating a super hero that is original and fun to read. I get the fact on why he did because many of us are so tired of the race swapping and the pushing of the message. Is Isom a good comic? Yes it is but I love my OGs. Can the comic industry be saved as well as Hollywood ? The answer is yes. What you need people like Tom Cruise who does not have a agenda. More action movies like John Wick and Extraction .

[@MaggieD0123]

A pseudo comic company producing one comic book every year or two, without producing any net profits, is not a model for success.

[@charlesratcliff2016]

@@MaggieD0123 Well, it depends on how you define success. 2 to 3 mill for such a small company is successful

[@MK_ULTRA420]

@@MaggieD0123 It's still better than the current success of Marvel/DC

[@wastelandsniper789]

@@MaggieD0123 Where's the pseudo? They have produced two books so far, and have several more planned. Everybody has to start somewhere. Just because they don't have the large back catalogue that Marvel and DC have doesn't make them less of a comic book company. And it's really disingenuous to expect a new company to have a big back catalogue in the first place. Eric is doing the smart thing and not overstretching. Whether you like the guy or not, you have to admit that he's delivering on his promises in the timeframe he has set. Just because it's not as fast as you think it should be doesn't mean he won't eventually get the company to a point that it will be releasing multiple books in a year. Maybe stop listening to the salty woke whiners continually trying to fluff DC and Marvel. Eric is very upfront about what he does and why he does it. And so far the accusations against him have been provably false and, from what I can tell, borderline slander.

[@billgates334]

Just got my ISOM 2 this morning.

[@1Gr8Editrix]

Funny, I was just contemplating today the artists of MAD Magazine, back in the golden age of satire (1960s-1970s). Artists like Mort Drucker, Al Jaffe. They had a bite -- lot of wit, but warmth.

[@บัวสีโรเจอร์-ศ9ฝ]

Don't forget Don Martin.

[@johnnymidnight2982]

Chevy Chase used to write for MAD.

[@ComicBookBlackBelt]

love your videos as I do - you have merged the cinematic version and comic book version of super heroes and their respective worlds and stories in to one single argument about super hero fatigue and the abject failure of hollywood to capitalise on a stellar 10 year run prior to endgame. Mark Millars comments were squarely focussed on comic books - not IP in general. His ideas would indeed work if the whole business wasn't filled with people who hated it. As much as your point about OG characters being the benchmark for quality is spot on, they have had their day - and specifiically, although indy comics are at a distinct disadvantage, they are the only real hope for american comics moving forward. I just can't see mainstream coming back from this without firing 90% of the workforce and accepting that to make truly great comics you must love them and that it will never be a billion dollar business ever - it can however be a million dollar business as some Indy publishers have very publicly shown recently.

[@CallMeChato]

Thanks. Agreed.

[@kathleenhensley5951]

I stopped reading comic books circa 1967. Girls didn't read comic books, said my mother, and, I finally gave in. My mother was a gargoyle without the benefit of being a myth. I never told my mother that pulp science fiction is just comic books without the pictures. I've wondered returning to some reading for the fun of revisiting the heroes of my youth, but the woke agenda has made me very wary of doing so. I owned the silver anniversary issues of Batman, Superman... Loved Green Arrow, Wonder woman, Green Lantern. It is a real shame that these swamp-things have infested what used to be one of the great American art forms, comics. I think the only thing that could possibly save comics is to return to a previous generation's tastes, that is only logical.

[@Deadman1957TEB]

Before even listening to your video Mr. Chato, I can answer your question, like most of the people leaving messages below, there are no legends left, they've either died or lost faith with the genre. The recent writers (if that's not giving them too much of a boost, calling them writers) can't help but destroy many characters that have been around for at least a couple of generations before they were hatched! This is mainly the "big two" comic companies, if they're allowed to be called that these days? Most of the Indies seem to still have respect for their creations, being as they created them, but unfortunately characters that have been around a lot longer than you and I, don't get the love and respect they deserve!

[@harrisfrankou2368]

Micheline Iron Man... Romita and Bob Layton on Inks. respect. And for the record Iron Man was NEVER Marvel D list ever. He was a high B list, having heavy Gravitas in many Classic Avengers arcs. The just did not have Spiderman and the X Men is all really. It irks me when Certain Channels say the MCU made it on D list characters and DC screwed up with the "Trinity" But with DEI and a rabid DEI HR department, Marvel are Doomed pun intended. So not now. Disney Stock just went $82 per share btw...a stock exodus after the last quarterly woke triple down. Thanks Valiant renegade for the breakdowns Doomcock Adam Post and you, Chato you funny witty Champ!

[@Crustyheart1]

The final hope is with Nintendo and Universal Studios.... the rest is gone... perhaps when society shifts back to a sense of common sense one day, the need for entertainment will return... it all seems like memorabillia now.. I find solace in nature now... thanks for the hard work, you are a good man.

[@MK_ULTRA420]

Nintendo? Mario is the biggest simp-cuck in all of video game history. Imagine risking multiple lives to fight your crush's baby-daddy _and_ his kids and sometimes getting your younger brother involved.

[@Crustyheart1]

Yep, not the game, the company its a cultural thing... Universal studios and Nintendo are the last that don't seem to bend to the whims of 'the powers that be.' since Disney and WB are dead and will not survive... its logic... comics are long gone.. a boomer thing... boomers don't buy them much anymore...kids today like the stories but the format is old and outdated. @@MK_ULTRA420

[@mitchellalexander9162]

I've written off everything from the Big Two until a Decade Later when Superman and Batman go Public Domain.

[@mtgemperor]

A fair point. However, I think that this is the result of the Comicsgate fiasco that occurred a few years ago. That whole clusterfuck did not bear much fruit, as it were, until much later. Manga is now outselling American comics because the stories are better. The current crop of American comics (minus a notable few) was rotten before it had a chance to flourish and the flourish itself was incredibly underwhelming, allowing independent publishers and manga to overtake the major American comic book producers. Comicsgate was the death knell and it sounded back in 2018. Five years later, we are now showing the results.

[@atlanteum]

It's so nice to hear a rational adult speak with the true voice of a child. Thank you for your honest, wry, inciteful and always-unforgiving comments -

[@madelinetracy3847]

As usual, well said, Chato! I think the way to save comics would be to combine old blood (like the O.G. great comic book writers who are still with us) and new blood. Do an international sweep for new talent! And no, by that, I DON’T mean “talent = anyone who agrees with certain, approved ideology” or “writers who will play it safe and do as they’re told”. There are new, great writers in this world, but we don’t want the ones who play it safe or who buy into certain, approved ideologies- both of these kinds of “writers” have been major contributors to the creative decay in this millenium. We need bold, innovative, young writers…a modern equivalent of the ones who wrote “Twilight Zone” and “Star Trek” episodes in the 60s. Writers who will take risks, be fiercely loyal to their characters, and care too much about their craft. Oh…but those kind of writers terrify the crap out of the big whigs, don’t they? I should know, I’m one of those writers…Anyway, we need a combo of grounded, O.G. blood and passionate, new blood. They’d keep each other in check while giving us the best of both worlds!

[@smith51-d5i]

Marvel needs a reset from the One-Above-All, a simple sweep of the eraser could fix it. Kirby or Lee would love to put their house back in order.

[@Re-gj3yk]

They are trying to nerf him currently but havent done so yet so it could technically work. DC is screwed they already nerfed their version of God and have no top tiers so theyd have to do an official full sweep reboot and decanonize everything say for the last 20 years.

[@johnsouth3912]

In order to get what your requesting, western educational culture must change!

[@Kbyte27]

Unfortunately, after how badly the legendary writers and artists were treated, I don't think they should come back. Indie is the best way to go, with crowdfunding like indiegogo for example, to fund their projects. I hope that things will work out for them.

[@als3022]

Or expand to other countries comic industries. THe French Comics are actually REALLY well drawn and interesting. Oddly enough. Or the original founders that led to comics, the Pulp Fiction.

[@foreshame7370]

I don't think many of them would come back, nothing it it for them.

[@emdee8840]

"Home waterboarding kits". Woo-boy! Its a good thing I had already swallowed my coffee!! 👍👍

[@grumpyoldwizard]

It might work. I agree that "they" would not accept it. Excellent video.

[@ferrarriohh]

The other night I rewatched Conan The Destroyer, just got the blurays. And at the very beginning the credited story writers were Roy Thomas and Gerry Conway. Let that sink in. That movie is a timeless piece of cinema, definitely a product of it’s time, but it was written by legends who understood the character himself and the appeal of an adventure tale. I can watch that movie year after year, and I know I am not the only guy who does. Now contrast that with Jessica Gao’s lazy excuse of a She-Hulk show, a woman who NEVER EVEN READ John Byrne’s classic Shulkie run. And dont even get me started on Dan Slott saying that show was the most true adaptation of Jennifer Walters he’s seen because that’s just an insult to the comics.

[@zephodb]

This reminds me of something my Journalism teacher told me in the late 1990s... If the title of an article asks a question, the answer is 'No' according to the article. ^^ This isn't to say the article is truth or lies, but that is how the article structure goes, as it is more solid to create the refuting article of the premise at the start, and ones that try to affirm something as true in such an article is much harder to write and usually come off as ~obvious~ propaganda, propaganda or not. Also, love your stuff Chato. ^^ And you stride the line, saying 'Maybe' :) Or maybe it is a hope that they could, but that the industry would have to get out of their way. :)

[@CallMeChato]

Thanks, mate.

[@Curtiz2008]

Trouble with growing old is, all the writers and artists I read are dead.

[@youareivan]

the comics industry wanted a new audience. they didn't plan on it being vanishingly small, but that's how it goes sometimes.

[@mindandbody7971]

" ...at the drop of a mask." Sir, that is comedy gold.

[@mysticalmonotreme]

Agreed. DC and Marvel would need to hire new non-ideological editors first. In regards to the OG heroes, it is important to note that there have been multiple incarnations of Flash, Green Lantern, Atom, and Hawkman since the 1960s. Hell, there are many, MANY fans who prefer the Wally West (Post-Crisis) to Barry Allen (Silver/Bronze Age) when in comes to the Scarlet Speedster. However, the problem is that most of the "legacy" characters of the last decade are essentially over-produced shells like aforementioned Captain "Falcon", Ironheart, and the Future State slate of legacy characters at DC. I'm sorry. There's no way DC can convince me that Jon Kent is Superman when the OG Clark Kent and even Connor are still around. As some have noted, it may be too late as many long-time fans quit in exasperation and this mythical new audience never materialized.

[@fattiger6957]

But where to find those editors. Back when comics was run like an actual industry and not a middle school clique, young editors would come in and work under veteran editors to gain experience. Now, who can train young editors? DC has more of a history with legacy heroes than Marvel. The modern (well starting in the late 90s) JSA is almost entirely made up of legacy heroes. There is a blueprint on how to do it well. The aforementioned JSA cast, Wally West, Kyle Raynor, Blue Beetle (Ted Kord) were all accepted by readers. The problem came when Marvel and DC started killing off beloved heroes to blatantly give their names to more "diverse and inclusive" younger characters.

[@animeanibe]

First of all, "could have just saved the money and sent us all home waterboarding kits" will be my go-to line for the next foreseeable future. I come here for these nuggets of wisdom, but that means paying attention for the entire seven min---oooh, look, a squirrel. Second, I think we have reached and passed peak superhero interest and the fatigue has set in a while ago. This is just gestalt, arrived partly by the water cooler conversations that used to be almost exclusively about the superhero movies and shows and often comics among the crowd at my workplace that doesn't follow the NFL. Yes us nerds are proud to know nothing about the Bills, but we sure as hell know that the Argonauts are a Toronto team. Anyways, the conversations now are about the classic comic books, graphic novels, and non-superhero movies. There's very little anticipation for anything other than the next season of The Boys.

[@shaoshao2525]

👏👏👏 thank you, I couldn't agree more. The new comic writing over the past few years has driven me out of the hobby. It's so sad.

[@danielthompson2475]

Really good insight! Bravo Mr. Chato!!

[@matts6607]

i buy old comics. Been picking up Dreadstar by Starlin. I kickstarted both his projects as well. Comics are missing some crucial story telling these days so I have been gravitating towards the old days. As Darksied said "Ready the Armada we will use the Old Ways".

[@joemadden4160]

The WGA and SAG strike has failed. Period. Maybe being hungrier will make these writers WRITE!

[@keithg.6651]

You are the prophet of geekdom Chato. Right on the money as usual.

[@suqmadiq6653]

Home waterboarding kits 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 epically funny!

[@survivaloptions4999]

TL;DR: It's worth a shot. It's not like they could make it worse.

[@comicbookninja5268]

The 1st thing that needs to be done to change comics is to immedietly fire these horrible editors at DC and Marvel.

[@clifton212]

"Home Waterboarding Kit" 😂😂😂

[@bsharp3281]

I do enjoy your channel! Thank you

[@stephenc2527]

I would love to see what the old guard could come up with or even a new guard in the independents who take direct influence from the old guard. Take someone like Richard Mayer, he has had a good run in his independents, but I would have loved to see what he would do with GI Joe or even Superman. - Wally is my Flash :)

[@mizenbarbarossa494]

Every movie, TV show, comic and so on has someone that the audience falls in love with, and without them, the audience would dwindle from Tolkien to the Bible without these individuals, the rest will fall apart but these days everything is about politics, which is divisive and brings in too much negativity or its about all being gay and that’s it. I have no issue with diverse characters, but the story must come first and there have been comic books with politics in it, but it has been in the background and upfront and center should be the story and your core characters. I love the old 90s, comic books, and listening to Stan Lee. Talk about things in the comics from politics to love interest, and how to do them was always interesting

[@inkermoy]

I had my 15 minutes of fame working for DC and Marvel, it was a good experience and steady work. Drawing characters in their costumes fighting bad guys was a hoot. Now a lot of the time heroes are in their civvies talking in rooms. You even had a new generation of X-men in boarding school uniforms. oh. yay. Boooring!

[@tommyfishhouse8050]

You should work for the Rippaverse. Your art is fantastic.

[@DebuffBluff]

really like your videos Chato keep it coming

[@CallMeChato]

Thanks, will do!

[@RealSteveLarry]

Comics at the big 2 are over, not comics as a whole. That enterprise goes to the creators like EVS and Dixon and shall continue and inspire future and current upcoming artists for a better tomorrow. Despite the totaling of so many different franchises and characters this last nearly decade, the people from each disaster have come together to form something new. The creations of EVS alone stand to be a Major Movie some day, I guarantee it. This time in history for comics will be remembered for its independent creators and their work. We the customer goes where we can buy what we want. If no one is buying DC or Marvel toilet paper anymore, they arnt the main stream. Like ComicsGate and is the future of this entertainment. Though the woke just cant accept it and admit defeat because its not in their projective, psycho, ideology. Great Video once again Chato, keep it up!

[@HotspotsSoutheast]

The last comics I bought were Batman 66 and Wonder Woman 77, and the afore mentioned Red Son. Would love to see more of those. And with CGI and AI why not make a Batman movie with Adam West as Batman and Lynda Carter as Wonder Woman? Wouldn't that be a trip?

[@marca81]

The OG legends need to start their own brand.

[@thewkovacs316]

was done in the 90s but sales were driven by the speculator market and gimmicks, like variant covers

[@SlashTheWeasel]

I too have been picking up comics over the last couple of months. Mostly Venom related cause I feel like I can easily "hop on board" on what is going on. I would love to read some good X-Men but that is hard. . . Feels like I'm in the middle of the end of story whenever I pick up book and don't know what is going on. And its only new issue one. I wish they would just do something in the right direction . . .

[@justsomeguy542]

I think it is a decent idea, just depends on the execution. I think a legacy license could be a possibility, come up with a conditional licensing of an ipo, like you have to have made a certain number of comics that have also sold a certain amount, if you qualify you can make comic books revolving around a specific character, for a period of time, with split profits. Since the studios don't really seem to care about the comics anyways, they really don't have much to lose, the artists and writers have some autonomy, and the studios don't get backlash, because of absence of oversight.

[@Krommer1000]

"Home Water Boarding Kits" HA HA HA!

[@Rom2814SK]

Comics cannot be saved without a purge of the “creatives” currently producing mainstream comics. Been a comic book reader/collector since I was about 8 years old in 1977 and stopped reading them about 5 years ago. Now I just collect original comic art from when they were good and go to conventions to meet the greats who are still around (Chris Claremont, Al Milgrom, Matt Wagner, etc.).

[@MrGamman3yt]

Society has failed apprentices. Artisans, made their money, and didn't invest (or were truly too broke to) in training younger generations. Now, for some reason, everyone has $, and staff, and such (?), the old gaurd is gone, with no one trained taking their place. 50s movies? Old, but awesome. 70s movies? Wow, bad.

[@carlothecoffeeguy3778]

There's a weird unwritten rule of Hollywood that a (usually mediocre, sometimes awful) King Arthur or Robin Hood movie must come out every few years. I still think there's some great potential shows that could be made with these old heroes but I don't trust any of the big TV studios of today to pull it off

[@bhushanharripersad5716]

The old guard, if they come back should not take up the role of writers or artists. They should be editors and design consultants because that would be the most efficient use of their time. If they come back as writers and artists then the current editors will just chop up their good work into slightly more palatable dross, so as to cover themselves and the current talent by saying that the legends aren't so great afterall. The legends have put in the time to give us good books, mentoring the upcoming talent is what will secure a future for Marvel and DC. If they come back to put out a book or two then it will just be a stopgap measure and the bleeding will continue when they leave.

[@beachcomberbob3496]

I don't think we have super hero fatigue. What we have is gender swap/race swap/sexual orientation swap fatigue. When all of these niche interests were forced into our Marvel & D.C. products we tolerated them at first, but when they become the standard fair of the studios/comics output you begin to see that 'tolerance' isn't the same thing as 'acceptance'. Normal people will just turn away eventually. It would be interesting to do a survey of just how many gay/trans/ethnic minority people actually part with their money to partake of said movies and comics. Or is it a vocal minority that have foisted this 'self insert' rubbish on the rest of us?

[@MrGamman3yt]

Read up on the 90s Montana guys manifesto. It's terrifying how accurately he predicted they would destroy icons. Miv ultra or something like that. It's sad, scary.

[@ghadanfarali1884]

Fantastic video. A teal understanding of the issues. For me the crux of the matter is not rewarding the creatives for their labour. Case in mind Ed Brubaker who says seeing Winter Soilder adverts made him sick to his stomach. The old guard may alleviate the symptoms but won't solve the issue. A new generation is required to revitilise the genre. However why would such gifted writers/artists be interested in a parasitical, exploitative and ungrateful relationship with Marvel/DC?

[@gradybeachum1804]

UNMUTUAL! Thanks for that Prisoner reference.

[@yankee1376]

oh! what's the timestamp?

[@gradybeachum1804]

@@yankee1376 go to 1:18, it is just the phrase, but it stands out and is quite appropriate

[@johntabler349]

I was never a big reader of comic books but I wonder how much retcon would be needed just to have a good chance of building a good story around existing stories

[@kirbymarchbarcena]

The local comics industry here in the Philippines died upon arrival of the internet in the late '90s. As of date, the number of kids reading manga and foreign comics has diminished and it will be a matter of time.

[@MrWebweaver]

The solution is for new writers to write better stories for the masses. The old guard have done their time. It’s up to the new generation to move forward. If they chose to burn it to the ground, so be it. It’s a dead industry at this point.

[@fattiger6957]

The problem is that the parasite who took over the industry and exiled the old guard has a deep-seated disdain for superheroes and everything they stood for. They were so obsessed with "deconstructing" and "reinventing" time-tested ideas that they never even considered why those ideas were time-tested. Then there are the people who didn't care about any of it and only saw the medium of comics as a trojan horse for their political/social views. The latter tends to get most of the attention from the anti-woke crowd. But the former was and is just as destructive. And both of those groups didn't really care about comics. They just saw it as a stepping stone (aka backdoor) into what they really wanted: a job in film or streaming. That's why almost every indie comic comes off as a netflix pitch rather than something that appreciates the artform of comics.

[@MrWebweaver]

@@fattiger6957 that’s all fair but the solution is still to move forward not go back to old writers. You could bring in old writers as consultants to guide a new crop of writers going forward. I agree with Paul that the current group of writers should be fired. The comics of today should reflect the world of today and 60+ year old writers wouldn’t have that prospective.

[@007Thanos007]

"Frankly, I'm not feeling very positive about Deadpool 3." You and me both, Mr. Chato. I think that anything that Disney gets its grubby hands on it is going to turn that production into an unrecognizable mess compared to its first two excellent outings.

[@sterling7]

What I hear a lot about "Blue Beetle" is: "five years ago, ten years ago, this would have been considered good. Maybe not 'great', but an entertaining contender." The sands have shifted, and the goal-posts with them. The comics and the movies alike succeeded when they spent the time to make us care. Now it's "another day, another sky-beam", and "You don't need character development; this hero is under-represented, so love them, or else." Empty spectacles, and empty suits, all of it seeming to come from a place that thinks us both stupid and unworthy.

[@charlescaine6022]

I have that issue of Iron Man. I prefer the stories were his armor didn't seem like it is magic

[@richdurbin6146]

A few years ago Marvel had come out with DVD collections of some of there books having every issue from inception to 2006. Reading these over a few months it was pretty obvious to see the stories quality head off a cliff in the mid 90s.

[@TrepeGB]

I think it’s too late for D.C. and Marvel. So few comics are sold now, that very few people would notice if they got good again. They’re in an unstoppable spiral down the drain. Independents are the only place to get good comics now.

[@quito787]

If by old guard writers we will get non- woke stories, without any forced feminism and lgbt agendas, then maybe it will help revive western comics. Right now Japan and Korea manga/manhwa are so much more entertaining than anything the US comics industry churns out.

[@tyshekka]

The problem is that Yuri Bezmenov was right. The long march through the institutions has happened successfully. It will take generations to go back, and it will be difficult to figure out which societal changes were good and worth keeping while getting rid of the bad changes.

[@barry-allenthe-flash8396]

Those iconic New Mutants characters, Snowflake and Safe Space, will save them. I can't believe they _never used them_ Seriously though, I doubt Millar's move would save comics. I'm with you Chato: they need to reconstitute their creative teams entirely. Whenever you look at popular eras for comic books - be it whatever was popular in the Golden Age, like Superman or Shazam or The Adventures of (*giggles) Dick Cole, or fast-forward to the '90s and see the rise of the X-Men and Spider-Man and Batman and Spawn - they're always comic heroes that speak to the people of the era. Back in the olden days, everything was about Normal Rockwell-esque Americana values. Be strong, be courageous, punch a Nazi, everything will work out - go out there and be a man and make America proud! Just like Superman and Dick Cole (*giggles). In the '90s, kids and teens were starting to have a bit more freedom and anxieties, the world was getting more complicated and outcasts were starting to learn that there were others out there like them - maybe through music or the internet or whatever. Boom; Peter Parker is a nerd with problems, the X-Men are all outcasts, and Batman was dark and cool and serious when kids were desperate to be viewed as all those things when they were growing up - look at the kids who wore dark clothes and listened to emo music or had trench coats. The old guard will make good, probably great, stories if they were to return to DC and Marvel... but they won't BLOW UP comics. They won't result in comics becoming huge like back in their heydays. They won't save anything; they may just prolong the death a bit, that's all. What DC and Marvel need now are a host of writers who consistently write stories and characters that speak to whatever people care about now. *ACTUAL PEOPLE* - not that dumbass Hollywood wokeified idea of cartoon people that are all aggressively unlikeable, molly-coddled, social media-addicted morons who lack life experiences, interesting skills and personalities altogether, opting instead to replace the idea of a personality with blindly adopting an insufferable and nebulous ideology of "progressiveness" that changes week-to-week and _pretending_ that that is their personality. No, no; these companies need to find writers who understand what people in the *REAL WORLD* want; the very audience who have been silenced and lectured to for the past decade or so thanks to woke-ass media. This is why manga is kicking comics' ass right now; Gay Superman may want to protest Climate Change with his pink-haired boyfriend, and Blue Beetle may be _yet another_ awful latino stereotype who's family is "proud" for no good reason, having accomplished nothing of note, and thinks that having a lot of relatives in and of itself is worth celebrating (also the stereotype that George Lopez is a bankable actor that latino audiences give a sh** about. As a latino, I can attest to the fact that that is BULL S H I T, lol). MEANWHILE, Deku from My Hero Academia wants to protect his friends and innocent people and beat the sh*t out of all the villains that threaten them, no matter how much doing so may break him. It's not complicated why one thing is failing whereas the other succeeds. It's just tiring seeing these companies ignore trying obvious solutions... if only there was some kind writers strike out there _for comics_ so they could cut loose the lot of these morons in one fell swoop. Oh well. Anyway, great video as always, Chato! As an ex-superhero yourself, Mr. Canoehead, it's good to see you speaking up for *your* medium 😄

[@markeastwood74]

There's a point in long form story telling, where you have to change the characters in a way people won't like, so that you can have a triumphant return to the OG. It shakes up the audience who have become bored with their favourite book, and the collective sigh of relief reinvigorates sales, as the 'real' Superman/Batman/Spider-man returns. Hollywood may be going through that exercise right now, as they have learned a lot of comic book lessons from the MCU. At least, I hope so.

[@BobCain2006]

A home water boarding kit...don't give them any more ideas.

[@my2commonsense476]

No one cares about Shazam, but Captain Marvel, the Big Red Cheese, now that's another story.

[@akaBoG]

Kirkman threw down the guantlet when he called for established creators with fanbases to abandon the Big Two to develop their own creator IP.

[@carlosalfredolopezr.1709]

100% agree with you Chato. But the big 'IF's needed for things to improve: get rid of modern crap twist (the message), put to rest franchise, ditch those type c/d characters, recast the main characters AND put a good story with them. At this point in time I don't see these companies (marvel, dc, disney, wb) turning ship or making real changes. So their F'd.

[@mooseyman74]

I'd like to see a Batman show set in the 40's and Spiderman/James Bond set in the 60s

[@HarvestStore]

Great video.

[@dennisswaim8210]

The only way such a effort would actually work is for all the old guard from the great days of Marvel and DC to actually buy those companies otherwise they will be undermined and sabotaged to no end.

[@RenlangRen]

DC and Marvel have to want to succeed before anything will get better. The current batch of writers have purposefully attacked and alienated the old school customers. Many of the old school writers are successfully doing their own thing. The state of the comics industry is because of the people at the top running the company. Until they are shown the door nothing will improve. Why would Uncle Ethan want to go back to a company that drove him out in the first place when cyberfrog is a success?

[@RRTNZ]

Hail Chato. I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand I loved the great stories of the 70s- 90s ( and the occasional 2000s). Apparently Mark Waid is doing great things on Worlds Finest. On the other hand I don't know if younger readers today could handle or understand their stories. I've decided that there's a period where comics peaked in my life, and while I might check out the current adventures of my favorite heroes once in a while, I have accepted that the comics of my youth were the best and will never be surpassed. On the other foot - Frank Miller's return to Batman, was awful, and eroded a little of the magnificence of the legacy he created with his 80s work ( Batman Year One and Dark Knight Returns). In the end, I think we still need new writers and ideas, but they have to respect the timeless characters, like Superman and Batman, who don't need to be updated or replaced because they will always resonate with people. Anyway, great video cheers!

[@TheRealEnrico]

The answer is absolutely no. That is if the agenda is the same, it is not simply quality of story structure, it is the actual stories being told. I wouldn't care if every single living legend returned and published on going series, I wouldn't even pick up one of their books just to even hold it. They would have to reboot into a era in which people actual cared about. Before they twisted my favorites characters into dumpster pumpers.

[@relickeep]

My main problem with today's comics, besides the woke garbage, is the amount of content in each book. If you go back even 8-10 years each comic would have full stories start to end. Alot of the new stuff takes 3-4 books to cover what one older book did. It's all about full page panels and alternate covers. I think that's how Marvel makes their money these days. The new She-Hulk run was so bad, Marvel killed it, and relaunching as Sensational She-Hulk WITH THE SAME PRODUCTION AND WRITER. What a stain on the greatness of the 90s run.

[@quatore-5886]

I hope Mr. Canoehead is coming back soon 😊

[@mysticalmonotreme]

Oops! I forgot to add that I suspect that James Gunn's Superman: Legacy will be the first litmus test.

[@lotsalube]

Let Marvel & DC BURN. (Right to the ground )

[@Shifft-This]

5:11 I keep telling my friends this. They're pulling out all the stops to try to appease fanboys because of all the damage they've done. If you would have asked me 12-15 years ago if I would have been excited about seeing Wolverine in his classic comic suit with Deadpool in a rated R X-Men film I would have been rushing to pre-order my tickets. Now... now I'm just wondering where the bait-and-switch is happening. Logan was the depiction of Wolverine I had always been waiting for. We got him in his rawest form, and I just don't think we're ever going to get something like that again and bringing back Hugh Jackman kinda sullies that great sendoff he did. Because man... it was one hell of a sendoff for him. That scene at the end where he lets out that guttural scream before charging into those guys still makes my hair stand on end.

[@konli]

dude nice shirt and jacket !

[@CallMeChato]

I'm trying to be classy