Sbang Freestyle - The Invert and The Rewind - 30 days challenge, day 2

[@JoryFPV]

For someone that doesn't normally do rewinds you have a really good sense of the quad's orientation in space. The fishhook or j-hook you're referring to is a side-lock rewind, and the goal is to exit on the same path you entered, but there is also an illusion component as you mentioned. The illusion comes with the exaggerated stick movement you do to snap into the orientation you need to exit along the same path, and then reversing that small movement on the proper timing to sell the rewind effect. Through that exaggerated movement you can hide some of the imperfections and get away with not exiting at the perfect angle. Once you get that stick feel you can start applying it to other rewind angles that are possible. Unfortunately I don't think there is an easy way to learn it other than just trying it and building up the muscle memory. That timing and muscle memory is probably why you don't think your pauses look right, whether it's on rewinds or the other tricks you're doing. The good sbang pilots are snapping into so clean and quick, and then exiting with a movement that's very similar to what they enter with, and our brains pick up on those relationships and it gives it that panache you're looking for. Like on the inverted pauses you should be trying to decelerate into the pause and accelerate out on the same rotation speed and timing, and bonus points if the time you spend inverted is the same as the amount of time it took to do each half roll. It's kind of like how a juicy flick is juicy because you match the rotation of your roll, flip, and forward momentum of the quad. On ejects I think you want to be doing a strong exit on the exact moment your quad loses it's upwards momentum and starts to fall because you pitched forward. Pilots will know you're about to start falling, and in that moment of anticipation you burst out of it with forward thrust and snap back to the same pitch angle you'd need to maintain forward flight with your new speed and momentum. At least that's my perception of it. It's hard to say if that's really what's going on since what looks good to people is so subjective.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Great insights! Thank you for sharing. Not sure I will get it by next time but I'll sure try.

[@patrickeul]

^ WOW. Great info. @JoryFPV

[@ConjoFPV]

Amazing additional info and breakdown JoryFPV. Rewinds are one of the hardest tricks ive come across thusfar in my small year of flying fpv and beside the many tutorials ive watched, i can only manage to rewind flat yaw spins and rolls. But grasping the physics and the stick movements and timing needed for a side lock rewind.. pfff just cant wrap my head around it but your explenation is gold. Ill keep on trying. Jb does an amazing job with these vids and he is a fast learner and breaks it down nicely as well. Man i love Sbang

[@HoltBlackheathFPV]

For me, sbang is all about the hard stops and quick changes in direction. It should look like your pausing the video and rewinding at times. Fly smooth between these movements to make the quick movements stand out. Rewinds are indeed an illusion. It's about playing with the quads momentum. Your stick movements are where the illusion comes from though, not the actual change of direction, but these need to align for the illusion to work! Confusing I know, so DM if you'd like more info, I'd love to help you get there 😊

[@roy1792]

Love the effort you're putting into learn sbang Josh! in my opinion what ejects help the most is for you to gain speed and at the same time keep the horizon level while travelling since the other way to gain speed is by pitching forward and that way you wont have a flat horizon which does not suit this style of flying for multiple reasons, it will make it harder to have a good horizon lock on inverted tricks and same goes to flat yawspins so its always best to have a flat horizon even when traveling it will make everything link better together and look much cleaner.

[@RebelGoatFPV]

I've been learning Sbang over the last few months myself. The way you analyze and break down each maneuver is really helpful. 👍

[@travisSimon365]

One thing that I am seeing with your snap rolls is that you are easing out of the second half of the roll. That is, when you are completing the 360, you back off the roll to make sure that you get to straight-and-level flight. The return to normal flying attitude needs to have that same 'let go of the stick' snappiness to it (even if you don't let go of the stick). I think part of what makes this style difficult is that, as pilots, we spend so much time practicing being as delicate and smooth as possible that this style of flying becomes even more difficult. It's in the name - you bang the stick to the right and then bang it back to dead-center, with no transition in between, like a robot named Farouk. Watch your stick cam and see how much you ease down to center. Imagine your sticks are more like NES controllers with only center and 4 positions, and then try to move them as such. If anything, I would consider adding more expo, not less. Bang the stick to the right, stop exactly half way through the roll, bang it again, and then stop it at exactly level. Easy ... right?

[@bentprops_]

Heh heh you said bang the stick

[@ultratorrent]

On some level, I see the sbang pilots not really banging the stick ends, but seeming to match rate of rotation in subsequent half-rolls and things like that.

[@bentprops_]

@@ultratorrent usually being intentionally symmetrical or intentionally asymmetrical

[@GROFFTV1]

Mr. Bardwell, as a prominent figure and leader in the fpv community i believe you have a RESPONSIBILITY to release the sticks in trying FPV flying because attempting something you’re not comfortable with is a major part of training! if it fails we will be able to see the outcome or the progression of your skills in a new style .

[@BlackBirdFPV]

Nice to see these sbang video man! To help lock it up you need keep like 15%-20% throttle and it will be LOT more locked when you stop it. You can also up iddle ( help a lot)

[@shadofpv]

Your sbanging is really coming along now mate, i can see real progress in your stick movements, just another trick mate that i use to fill in the "pause" gaps is called "skating" which is when you do ejects whilst flicking left and right one after the other, making a slalom type feel, trust me try it out ;) much love, shado

[@gadgetrc94]

I know a couple guys that I would say are pretty accomplished sbang pilots. They get their clean uniform rolls by setting the rates super low (440 deg/s) and then rolling at max stick. The invert then is less about the destination than the journey, and the flight controller does a lot of the work for you.

[@Barks_Bridge_Dog_Training]

Got a couple of sbang combos from the eject in one of my latest videos if anyone is interested.. NO opposite yaw is needed if you line up the horizon correctly, your horizon will not be centre of the screen unless you have no camera tilt. Add some pitch to your rolls instead. then yaw to finish..

[@parkswreckfpv3547]

I used to love your 3 packs a day and this kind of reminds me of it. Keep up these types of videos, its fun to see your progress.

[@lemoncfpv8434]

for your rewind, think like you are doing a split s up onto something, then juicy flic out of it. the invert, one thing i do notice is your not slamming your throttle to zero completely, hold it tweak your yaw slow... rates are really important i think to get your slow movement good, and your spins controllable. Also get on liftoff and practice some sbang for 50 hours or so then :D

[@BaconNinjaFPV]

So, all of this may sound stupid, but it is what I have learned from doing this stuff. You have to know where the stick needs to be to do what you want and to make it snappy you have to get there quickly and stop dead on it. For me, it feels like I am not thinking about my sticks at all. It feels less like I am trying to wait for a visual cue, and more like I am anticipating every movement and visualizing the flow in and out of it before it happens on screen. Sure there are times where I screw that up, but that is when the flow state breaks for me and I just have to react and get back in the anticipation zone. I also fly low rates, 600dps on roll/pitch/yaw with very little expo on roll/pitch and no expo on yaw. Adding to that, I fly at 15 degrees, which seems like it would make things slow....but I still book it really hard, lol. Basically for me it boils down to predictable rates, precise stick movements without any hunting, reacting effectively and quickly when things aren't perfect, and visualizing everything in real time. Going through the motions of the tricks is the first step, then when you stop having to think about them, that is when the real sbang magic happens!

[@cagmuer]

When you look at sbang videos, they goes from positive XXX deg/s and then directly to negative XX deg/s with no smooth "transition" through 0 deg/s in between. The max rate of the maneuver isn't fast, its just a very solid and very constant. My theory is that they have a very flat center stick sensitivity, low max rates (like 400-600deg/s) and a huge expo set at 1.00 and this would explain how you can "let go of the stick" and not vibrate the quad. The center sensitivity is soo low that a vibration at stick center does almost nothing to the actual PID loop. So, you keep enough center sensitivity to do minor flowy course corrections (like cine settings), and when you deflect the stick, the expo bumps you almost immediately to max rates (which is low enough to control) and when you exit a spin, the expo bumps you back into a locked center near 0 deg/s. This is my theory........... Also, super high rates, but with no expo, might have the same effect as low rates with high expo. So both can be right...........

[@patrickeul]

Can't wrap my brain around it either. These vids are great, the talking it out along with the vid is very helpful. Thanks for posting!

[@hallio111]

dude can you make a tour of the new shack? looks great.

[@AirKhanFPV]

It would be nice when one of the sbang pilots would upload dvr, because most of the sbang footage has motion blur, lens correction and/or stabi. PS: the goats are just😍

[@ninmarioscc]

There's days where I fly and nothing comes out the way I want I skip a day then I go back and first try and boom it comes out almost perfect you gotta keep practicing till it clicks in your head and know that not always is gonna click on the same day.

[@FlyZoneFpv]

Nice Jb . I’m also interested in trying sbang . You should do more videos on this for sure . Thanks bro👊🏻

[@papamidnightfpv]

I let go of the right stick when I go to fly backwards with some speed. When the right stick self centers is easy to do perfectly flat yaw. So when I 180 I know my quad is at the same angle of attack and I know I can keep the same throttle and keep elevation and speed.

[@MurdersFPV]

This video isn't particularly Sbangy but it has stick cam of how I do inverted yaws as "clean" as possible and I definitely let go of the right stick. I know for certain that I do inverted yaws by releasing the stick and it took a long time to get that technique down but it's ultimately what I feel makes it look snappy. kzbin.info/www/bejne/epmlp6mait6AoLs

[@MysteryD]

I been working on my rewind maneuvers myself. Easy to learn, looks nice when done right

[@le_tranq]

Those little kicks you started doing around 8:30 were cracking me up, your flying got so fixated on the things you were learning, just trying to fit as much in as possible.

[@zlachannel8674]

you need to change the iterm gain a little bit and bring up the yaw Pgain and Igain to get more easy/lighter stick movement on the sbang trick/shacking the quad tails in the fast changed direction or breaking in rewinds because yaw axis is the slowest axis in the quad

[@BadneX_FPV]

oh joshua, whenever i see a sbang video of you i get a smile on my face. I am very happy that you want to learn it

[@Atlas_FPV]

I love the rewind, it’s so fun to do

[@onnovannoort7690]

Highlight of the day!

[@MCsCreations]

Pretty fantastic flying, Joshua! 😃 Keep practicing! Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@Silor]

I've been on this path recently. One thing i've found helps is to use the absolute lightest props possible. Makes the snap in the moves a lot crisper. The gemfan sbang 4.9" are great for that

[@JoshuaBardwell]

That's the prop I'm using 😊

[@Silor]

@@JoshuaBardwell haha of course

[@NthraX]

What you’re doing wrong is just not enough practice, if you really want to make it look good you just gotta practice that a lot, especially because most of this is timings, and you can’t learn that without figuring it out yourself ;)

[@BIRDYFPV130]

That’s where expo is key so you get the snap at highest rate available ease into the roll and snap the rest with full tilt to new view.

[@Shauny_D]

I just can’t unsee nnipples where your sticks overlay is . haha! you gotta own it or change the shape

[@MegaMathew79]

Love your work Josh, i'm learning Sbang style along with you, stoked with your breakdown

[@jataku]

Would you be able to do a "learning sbang in a sim" episode?

[@neilfpv]

I like your rewind by the house. I was think after you do a rewind, within the first or second seconds after it starts rewinding, do a vanny roll, both sides. That would be really cool!

[@RadBeardFPV]

That’s my style! Lol I fly low cam angle and get that flat inverted look. Been trying to get it back since I smacked my head on the cement a months ago. Glad to see you come to the wild 😛 side!

[@vizzieizzy]

Josh are you using the almost required set up for sbang? From all I've tried and learned the motors need to be much higher kv than normal freestyle and props need a hell of a pitch. It helps a ton over things like stiffening springs. I dunno I know your JB but thought I'd through it out there

[@bentprops_]

There is no wrong way to freestyle JB 🙂

[@shadofpv]

And yes, stick release plagues us all ;) 🤣 especially throttle

[@FlyHMD_]

On the Sbang trick, seems like it needs to have forward momentum during the roll - pause- then contimue roll while also looking at an object or point in the distance. To me the sbang always seems to make me look at something - whatever the 'target' object is during the roll and beyond as you come out of the roll. Seems like we could anticipate your forward stopping point but would look better if you went beyond the tree/property line you were using as the turn around point

[@seakfpv6069]

this makes me want to push myself so much!

[@daily6633]

Lol the little giggles when u fly

[@rendycog1097]

Btw how to generate the stick cam animation? Is it from blackbox then converted with something into animation?

[@vizzieizzy]

Sbang has a good look to it, but it mainly (and maybe this is the point) it's ejects, snap, pause, inverted yaw spins at least 6000 per pack lol and rewind with a bunch of filler in-between. Am I close?

[@Lowbattery_fpv]

Nice ! What about rates and pid tuning for this style of flight? What's your quad setup? Thanks

[@JoshuaBardwell]

I discuss that in day 1. The playlist is linked in the video description.

[@WKfpv]

I always thought sbang needed a lot of expo, and that what makes the moves look snappy

[@mco1514]

You gotta learn to lock it, practice sidelock rewinds. Great ejects btw😉

[@maddercat]

I'm struggling how to do rewinds a lot...how do they just stop on a dime with almost no slide, and make it actually look like it's rewinding in camera, I've seen some amazing ones like you swear it was edited video. Like the quad has to specifically be built with a super large motor and light frame I would think? That said I can't even do them in a sim so lol

[@__meo__]

What stands out in Sbang is imho the choppy transitions between tricks... You don't slide into a trick smoothly, but you are in the state of doing that trick and then instantly switch to the next... Like a square signal instead of a sine wave... Maybe you need log not expo... Is that even possible?

[@raynerfpv2471]

i`m also trying to learn this sick style, it seems most of the moves are quick snaps then slow exits

[@413fpv9]

Mikey you dork lol......if I'm second to anyone I'm glad it's you buddy

[@gingerdude94]

Where did you get that goggle head strap from?

[@su_K3N]

JB, Do you think flying different quads has hindered your progression as a pilot?

[@MadDragon75]

If anyone cares... I I've been flying full Expo for about a year now. Just as a contrast to low to linear.

[@kerrymillar4981]

So pleased you sold the lawn mow and bought some goats or and i wrong?

[@BIRDYFPV130]

Sbang gives you more time on target, like CQB, shoot and snap to target.

[@cwwisk]

I think your forward motion is the issue. Try to confine your momentum to a singular 3d position while you are sbangin'... you are using the whole fence length for a "trick" that could be done between a couple fence posts. The "pause" you are looking for comes from coordinating pitch to stop your forward momentum from the time you start to roll inverted to the time you start to roll out. This way you can pause and then rebuild forward momentum before you level out in either position. You are making your flight path too predictable too. Your example of holding the yaw while inverted to make turns, when done at right angles, is another flowy way to coordinate your flight in a way that is less predictable to the viewer. Predictability is part of the illusion of complexity. Once you start thinking more about entry and exit angles for both momentum and camera orientation, then you can really get some nice visual effects in your footage and flight.

[@8514736nels]

Rewound the video about 4 times thinking we are these goats he is telling to go away. Then flies around house and they're in front of him.... Hahaha

[@PhillyDroneLife]

OMG first. Hahaha. I can die now.. haha YaHOOOOOOOOOOO Mikey

[@FabioPansera]

Nope!

[@PhillyDroneLife]

@@FabioPansera second? Lol

[@FabioPansera]

@@PhillyDroneLife Yep, sorry man! :)

[@sedhendo4177]

Question? Does anyone know some who 3D prints and design prints. Is there someone in the drone community that is really good at it? I’m asking you also Bardwell

[@sedhendo4177]

@@Inconvenientruther can you send me a link

[@daily6633]

LMAO Y U SCARING THE GOATS

[@nextlevel_fpv]

So I never understood the “eject”. It looks like a you are correcting your pitch and it doesn’t look good to me

[@theflyinggrip]

I’ve always considered an eject a quick up and out, looking back down at a subject. Not this horizontal acceleration technique.

[@Flumphinator]

This. Sbang is dumb and looks like a bunch of mistakes.

[@ArturKorobeynyk]

All I heard for this style is "NEVER LEAVE YOUR STICKS CENTERED FOR EVEN A MILLISECOND"

[@josephlafluer7266]

Hey Bardwell, you can Spang better of you were using the Fatshark Dominator Avatar goggles and Today you just learned something! 😉 😂

[@mrUrlolFPV]

JB try barrel roll pause and continue, not just a basic roll.

[@ccfpv]

FPV is not a crime, but sometimes it's an Ordnungswidrigkeit.

[@kanenstuff]

I have sbanging since day one and didn't even know woo-hoo 🙃

[@ofacefan]

i guess it depends on which sbang pilot style you are trying to emulate but it looks kind of like you are doing everything too fast and too precise, not floaty, flowy and meandering

[@MetaCake-]

Opening… fucking beautiful completely missed the spang clip haha

[@DrMacca]

[starts singing THAT song from Frozen]

[@tweekFPV]

👍🏻👍🏻

[@huntharz]

you didn't insert clip at the start

[@Createdbydub]

You have to literally release your fingers off the pitch roll stick to lock out

[@JoshuaBardwell]

I refuse. Is that legit how they do it?

[@Silor]

@@JoshuaBardwell What If you put a momentary switch that disconnects pitch and roll? leave yaw active for them fancy spins. That could be fun

[@Barks_Bridge_Dog_Training]

@@JoshuaBardwell Yes Sir. Off stick as it centres up for a little snap..

[@juliennedan2725]

Check out juicy jay he’s an amazing pilot

[@flaparoundfpv8632]

Don't sweat the technique.

[@OnepackFpv]

change your rates.

[@BIRDYFPV130]

Slow to speed up the flip into turn

[@FabioPansera]

First.😂

[@splif7773]

Doesnt look sbang cause you never give it enough throttle and you fly too slow

[@thatguycarlos]

You need music.

[@richardsmithson4227]

Who cares