SBFC224 - Justice League (Spoilers)

[@Burglarcats]

It's a weird feeling, living in a world where Ant Man and Rocket Raccoon are bigger selling theatrical draws than the first real Superman/Batman teamup

[@shagohad3]

Marvel made Guardians work, and yet DC can't make more than one decent movie

[@nenshoufox]

shagohad3 Guardians worked because they were obscure enough that people could accept a new group of people to learn about. Plus they had the space heroes gimmick that the other heroes didn’t have, save Thor but he was still mostly grounded to earth so it didn’t take yet till Ragnarok.

[@darrianweathington1923]

Burglarcats well after like 10 superman and Batman orgin stories yeah...

[@a.g.m8790]

People are burnt out on Superman and Batman. There’s only so many times you can get the *SAME* story told to you over and over with reboot after reboot. It’s just beyond fucking ridiculous at this point and people have lost interest. Like seriously how many times have you seen Bruce’s parents get killed and that pearl necklace broken? I’m betting 10+ starting in cartoons when you were a kid then *EVERY* Batman movie and even the Gotham TV series. That goes for supes with his dumb space baby bs too. DC isn’t doing anything interesting with their characters and the numbers will reflect that

[@TheTriad001]

#Hollyhood Yeah I would argue that same thing...if Marvel didn't do the same thing with Spiderman. So that argument actually falls flat. The answer is unfortunately much simpler. They have shit writers and banked it all on a REALLY bad director.

[@bazzjedimaster]

DC geek here, the answer to Pat's question is a combination of nepotism and xenophobia. The information of Krypton demise was actually kept away from its population due corruption of the government (in the DCAU replace government for Brainiac) also Kryptonians are infamously xenophobic to other races, to the point even their distant relatives the Daxamites share their xenophobia to their culture, is implied this xenophobia comes from a past war with other races (sometimes implied to be the Colu which is Brainiac's race or outright being Brainiac himself stealing the city of Kandor for his collection), this kept them away from space travel for enough generations to make it a non option for most of its population, this also makes relevant that the El family was able to get a rocket because Jor-El was a scientist.

[@Sigismund697]

really? to be honest I never really gave it much thought, I knew that some canon put Brainiac as the mastermind keeping the knowledge away until it was too late so that he could bail on them at the last second but had no idea about them isolating themselves

[@bazzjedimaster]

Sigismund, The Emperor's Champion Yeah, the Xenophobia aspect was heavily showed in some specific stories like with Tomar-rey (the green lantern of Krypton's sector) having a bad relationship with Krypton's government to the point they practically barred his entry on Krypton ironically isolating themselves to a possible savior and in the new krypton arc were Kandor gets de-shrinked and creates their own planet rather than joining earth.

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

bazz that might actually be the best explanation. There's so many comics with different explanations or lack of, mine just being it's their home so why would they leave. But the explanation you just put out is actually cool.

[@darrianweathington1923]

bazz to bad pat will never see this comment

[@a.g.m8790]

Oh ok so they’re fucking idiots

[@dragonman011]

Matt comparing Steppenwolf to Ultron is borderline insulting. At least Ultron has a distinct character.

[@darrianweathington1923]

Joe Aviles kinda? A robot that Tony gave a independent AI to. That decided that Humans where the problem all along.

[@rodney2x48]

Yeah. Too bad movie Ultron wasn’t acting like comic Ultron, but still way better than fucking Steppenwolf.

[@Tuskor130]

Joe Aviles well they're the big bads of the hero team movie so they're gonna be compared to each other.

[@li-limandragon9287]

Ultron was vaguely interesting, Steppenwolf isn't.

[@kira-dk2mx]

And we actually know who Ultron is, as opposed to not knowing who the fuck Steppenwolf is. Seriously, was DC's thought process that "We're going to save Darkseid as our version of Thanos"?

[@charliebr0wn82tv2]

Justice League felt like that kid that tried to be like everyone else instead of just being himself.

[@francescolombardi3438]

damn ...

[@JAKX091]

4:27 Steppenwolf super does mention Darkseid in the film. He outright shouts "For Darkseid!" when he has a little monologue.

[@metalmugen]

Budmen You can totally miss it though

[@rikowolfin4984]

He mentions him directly once in a scene completely unrelated to Darkseid and they don't bother making any connection to him again at the end credits or during the terraforming part of the movie.

[@Murdoc2568]

He says his name ONCE. After they foreshadowed Darkseid's arrival in SvB's weird dream sequence/time-traveling Flash-induced hallucination scene that's NEVER EXPLAINED. Now, while I don't expect Darkseid to show up in the first JL movie, shouldn't the first representative of Jack Kirby's New Gods leave some kind of lasting impression beyond "Oh! He works for Darkseid, I guess?" Bruce Timm's Superman cartoon did a better job FFS! And they did't have to spend 15 million to CGI over Superman's mustache in that!

[@Kirkenburer74]

I know but they didn't elaborate. I know they want to be vauge but people are weird and one little thing might be missed due to someone going to the restroom or other little weird things.

[@saltykenny5370]

@ metalmugen Mat wouldn't have missed it if he watched it on Pats perfectly calibrated tv.

[@goodvillain1015]

Batman recruited a team of heroes to honor Superman and protect Earth. Protecting Earth was too hard for them, so they brought back Superman to finish the job. Good job DC, you made the Justice League a pointless team. And Superman's only answer is to beat shit up; that is the person who's suppose to inspire us?

[@elevate07]

Goodvillain 101 that's really the worst thing about it. The Justice League itself has nothing to do but resurrect Superman. Like victory 100% rests on whether or not Superman can save the day. Isn't the rest of the Justice League capable of saving the day on their own? So then why should there be a Justice League at all if it's just Superman doing everything? Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Cyborg, and Aquaman basically spent an hour and 40 minutes being Superman's cheerleaders.

[@Sigismund697]

What I don't get is why add cyborg but leave Jordan, Martian Manhunter and Hawkgirl/man aside It really felt barren when the cast was announced and felt as if you made the Avengers with only Cap, Hulk and Wasp

[@goodvillain1015]

Sigismund, The Emperor's Champion According to WB, Cyborg was included to bring diversity for blacks and the disabled. To bad they used him as a plot device than a character.

[@Sigismund697]

somehow I'm not surprised

[@vtech325]

Superman was only needed to take down the Big Bad. If it was Superman vs the Big Bad AND his army then most of human civilization would have been destroyed. And what exactly did you expect any of them to do? Try to talk down the tyrannical aliens? Superman knows full well how that worked out the first time.

[@ghostfear2011]

I have a feeling that they wanted to use Darkseid as the villain, but decided to drop it somewhere during production due to the backlash of basically wasting “Death of Superman” in the second movie in their franchise.

[@TomBombadil168]

Ghost5410 I fucking forgot they did that shit.

[@ghostfear2011]

Sploogmaster2 It’s literally “Death of Superman” as soon as Doomsday shows up, which is after the Batman vs Superman fight.

[@TomBombadil168]

Ghost5410 I guess I ment my mind ignored the fact that they blew one of the biggest and most major superman moments in the comics and lazily used it I The second film, only to get over it by the end of the movie.

[@Reqqqqqs]

Aren't they still planning on making the first Flash movie cover Flashpoint?

[@ghostfear2011]

Requian That would be the best honestly at this point. Reset everything because WB wanted Avengers money and rushed everything. This is coming from someone who liked Man of Steel. BvS is awful even if you remove the fact that they wasted that storyline, I ain’t touching Suicide Squad ever, and WW is actually good.

[@TheFuryHasCome]

Justice League feels like it's got no heart.

[@thepickles8833]

It doesn't.

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

Praise the Beef that's because it doesn't, and it breaks my heart.

[@rodney2x48]

It does, but not from the people who direct the film. The actors obviously care and put all their effort into it, but the actors barely carry this generic ass plot and that TERRIBLE villain.

[@felixdaniels37]

Praise the Beef The DCEU as a whole is heartless, soulless, corporate dreck. It may as well have been made by drones that do nothing but follow trends instead of establishing them. BvS, MoS, and SS were byproducts of the Nolan Trilogy being successful, while JL was reactionary to the backlash of those movies and Marvel.

[@rikowolfin4984]

Honestly I would have preferred seeing what Nolan would have done with other DC super hero's, at least then the movies wouldn't be a souless copy and actually might have been a good alternative to Marvel movies.

[@Thesupersparta333]

To be fair, supposedly the next movie is gonna be Flashpoint. Looks like they're gonna try to hit the reboot button.

[@felixdaniels37]

Ryan Long I hate that because Flashpoint is utter garbage. All a Flashpoint movie is going to do is destroy Wonder Woman's entire character to people, the one thing that most people praised about the DCEU. She's going to be tainted hard because she's just an evil tyrannical despot, and that's all casual audiences are going to see about her after that.

[@Murdoc2568]

What does it say about a movie franchise when they have to reset that franchise 4 movies in?

[@andrei11dr97]

Flashpoint was fine dint blast my mind or anything but I thought it was pretty unique

[@a.g.m8790]

They keep hitting the reboot button that’s the problem with DC. At this point their just a muddled mess that’s confusing and gross that nobody wants to deal with. You can watch the Marvel movies in chronological order and it all makes perfect sense. DC is just.. nothing and their movies being grim, boring and poorly made definitely doesn’t help

[@goodvillain1015]

I knew the movie was gonna fail because thee was no selling point in terms of theme and story. The producers relied on name brand instead of discussing on genre; for example, Marvel said Thor Ragnarok was a buddy road movie, Black Panther was a geopolitical movie, and Infinity War is a heist movie. For Justice League, all they said was "hey, it's a team of iconic superheroes, you're gonna watch it anyways." That's how soulless the movie is.

[@70swords]

This, so much this. There was no genre to it. What they don't understand is that super hero alone is not a genre, it is a character archetype.

[@Yal_Rathol]

no, shut up, listen. superheroes, aaand SCENE!

[@felixdaniels37]

Wait, Pat wants to see the JL movie because of SUPERMAN? Did I end up in Bizarro world or something?

[@Yal_Rathol]

felixdaniels37 pat runs on hatred and suffering, so sitting in a room of superman fans as they cringe and roll in their chairs would be the greatest joy for him.

[@Thesupersparta333]

Not nearly as bad as I was expecting, but not as good as it needed to be.

[@Murdoc2568]

I honestly wish it was as bad as BvS. At least then it'd be memorable.

[@wendellstephens6311]

I thought it was pretty fun.

[@nedinnis6752]

I watched it recently, it was somewhere between ok and bland. I enjoyed some scenes, but others were "eh".

[@chiyo-chanholocaust8143]

The DC universe is a billion dollar train wreck

[@Selvokaz]

9:15 to answer Pat's very good question, it depends on who is writing at the time. My personal favorite explanation was that around Krypton's exploration age where they actively sought out new worlds to cultivate and claim as their own, many colonialism like wars broke out with colonist forming their own militant factions and claiming independence from Krypton. This of course would lead to wars between these new independent colonist and Krypton leading to a eventual decree by the ruling council that all colonization is prohibited, and that only exploration for scientific purpose would be allowed, however later still when it was discovered that kryptonian physiology underwent several changes depending on the energy absorbed by various stars during long term exposure which resulted in kryptonians obtaining god like powers the council in fear of what this might lead to as Krypton had largely decided to be mostly non-militant and colonial at that point, nor force their ways unto others decided that ALL exploration and colonizing from then on was unsafe and that they should focus purely on their own management of their planet and their people.

[@trustypatches4042]

I hope they do Brainiac. I'd love to see that dumpster fire

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

Zachary Anderson NO. I don't want to see great villains and characters butchered again. It's too painful.

[@chronoflame4438]

To be fair the only cool thing about steppenwolf in the comics is that he is darkseid's uncle

[@jor4114]

chrono flame44 That and his goatee, which I'm super pissed off the movie version didn't have.

[@dahakaguardianofthetimelin4780]

The only cool thing about Steppenwolf in the comics is that someone named "Granny Goodness" who looks like an actual grandma in war armor is more relevant than the main villain of the JL movie

[@zeterzero4356]

chrono flame44 Is he? Huh, that's super weird. You're right, that's neat though.

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

chrono flame44 and his overall attitude when fighting. He's never been a complex or main villain, just a bad ass general serving an even bigger threat.

[@rodney2x48]

And even that is kind of ignored or irrelevant in the comics. lol

[@222CBK222]

My answer to Pat's question: As I recall, Jor-El is the one who discovered this power for Kryptonians but realized that if he made it public knowledge, their race would basically become Saiyans (from DBZ) and start conquering planets and from what we know of Jor, he is an honorable man who wouldn't allow this knowledge to be misused until Krypton's destruction forced his hand to send his son and niece to Earth in hopes they will be decent and not be corrupted by power (case in point: General Zod). If you found out such a secret, would you tell anyone? Even if you tried to leave your planet, it's a LONG way to either a yellow or blue sun. I don't know what arts Jor employed to keep his son and niece sustained until they reached their destination (stasis, automated "nanny", etc.) but from what I can gather they didn't have enough time to build a large enough ship for an adult sized passenger with resources for food and water to make that journey which could take decades.

[@UltraChimera]

We’re in the wrong timeline again. Someone hit the reset button and in five years we’ll start with a new reboot...please

[@AntiNihilist]

FUCK OFF. They finally made Superman good. I don't want to restart that character progression again.

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

ponquinful NO. THAT SHITTY WARPED PATHETIC EXCUSE OF A HERO, is absolutely not Superman at all.

[@JohnRaines]

Well supposedly the next movie is going to be Flashpoint, so...

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

JohnRaines FLASHPOINT!?!! That's too fucking soon!

[@JohnRaines]

They want a rival for Infinity War.

[@rodney2x48]

I don’t blame Woolie for not being able to answer that question. They constantly change the reasons Kryptonians never left Krypton a lot. In the pre-Crisis era, it was either the fact that they didn’t know about the whole solar powered thing or just didn’t care. After Crisis, it was either a mix of those two or the Guardians of Oa having fucked them over after Kryptonians took over other galaxies with their crystal powered planet/star destroying super weapons. The New 52 version is the fucking weirdest one cause it involved 5th Dimensional Imps.

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

Surprised Robot yup. I just accept the most simplest answer, probably in my head, that it's their home where they've mastered their crops, built technology, etc. why would they leave for powers they don't really need?

[@Yal_Rathol]

Brian. Jr Montoya i don't know, i think being an invincible, immortal god-kin is a pretty neat trick, but maybe i'm the weird one.

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

Yal Rathol hey, that's the best reason in comparison to the more silly actual reasons. Lol

[@darrianweathington1923]

Surprised Robot well the answer i like was that they did have super powers on krypton then, their sun got old and week taking away their powers. So they sent out the scout ships (zod and his warriors) to tereform planets as outpost to look for a galaxy with a young, sexy, strong -BLACKMAN- yellow sun. Then they found earth. But it was to late to send a whole race so they just sent klark. So he can ready earth for the kryptonion race...like goku

[@rodney2x48]

That's actually not far from what was the explanation given in the Sandman comics. Rao, Krypton's sun god, was convinced by Despair of The Endless to turn Krypton's sun red so that Krypton would rely on wasting their resources for centuries until it self-destructed itself, leaving only Clark and a few others as survivors... because it would be cool, epic and full of despair. It's so weird, but from a mythological perspective it's pretty legit. lol

[@KrytenKoro]

In fairness, those are parademons, not copying marvel (if anything, DC uses them more than marvel used sakkarians in the comics)

[@Yal_Rathol]

KrytenKoro sure, but they were saying it's a combination of the meh elements in avengers movies, almost like they deliberately picked the worst elements of those and glued them together. whether the characters are from the comics or not is irrelevant, because movie-goers saw ultron and the chitauri first.

[@andrei11dr18]

Steppenwolf totally looks like Shinok from MKX

[@asepsisaficionado7376]

Wonder Woman is the only one who has a good taste in my mouth, if you know what I mean

[@dagripper77]

Steppenwolf didn't have teeth for half of the movie.

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

Spizzmattic he was so fucking gray and boring, design wise and character wise

[@SharpestSniper99]

I cannot bring myself to see Wonder Woman or Justice League because I can’t enjoy a cinematic universe that died after the second movie.

[@christianyoung9808]

Spencer Sharpe see Wonder Woman. It’s a good stand-alone

[@SharpestSniper99]

Christian Young I’m not gonna see anything where BVS, Man of Steel, and Suicide squad are canon

[@christianyoung9808]

If you pretend those never happened...WW doesn't really remind you of them

[@Bizarrejoe]

they will not be canon after next year. You know, when flashpoint is going to happen.

[@SharpestSniper99]

Bizarre Joe it’s still a dumb move to make flashpoint the fucking first solo flash movie but if they do it to solely make them not canon then I’ll give it a chance lol

[@Mengha]

I saw an advanced screening of this and I'm still confused. I honestly liked B vs S over Justice League. Mainly because B vs S was one insane persons idea of trying to turn comic books into "lofty" high concept "art." But as written by a manchild who read Atlus Shrugged once and decided that was the greatest piece of literature of all time. Justice League feels like a complete garbage fire because all of the characters are two-faced as they try to juggle the serious cuts by Snyder and the "lol jokes!" quips of Whedon. You can have one or the other, not both. Which is why it felt way worse. That and I'm shocked a 300mil picture had such mediocre CGI...yeesh.

[@Sigismund697]

have you heard? there's a petition to ask all fans of DC to watch the movie at least 6 times otherwise the movie will be a complete flop and kill the franchise

[@midn1ghtsky271]

It is such a fuckin mess. Still less of mess that was BvS. There is cool stuff here, but also alot of bad. The studios or whoever don't understand these characters at all. I love Marvel and DC, and they both have their flaws, but it makes me really sad to see DC keep making stuff like this while Marvel's been using the same formula and still kicking ass. Wonder Woman still is the best one so far and I don't think that will really change for awhile.

[@TomBombadil168]

lil juicebox Yeah, I love the marvel movies, but I really want some proper gut punches of emotion. They have their moments, but I really want some of those moments where these superbeings just break down. DC... just need to get their characters and tone and writing and editing and directing fixed.

[@andrei11dr97]

Iea much like Soni Forces it was not to great but it olso wasn't shiti enough to be memorable with I can be summarize in one word DISAPPOINTMENT

[@cia4u401]

"Wonder Woman is amazing in it, she's the only person that seems to care" KA-LEL, nooo.

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

CIA 4U one line, out of an entire movie, as bad as that was, doesn't count. Because she did do great except for that one line. Everyone else legit didn't give a shit.

[@felixdaniels37]

Brian. Jr Montoya Not really, she felt just as awkward as everyone else. The only reason people cut her slack is solely because her movie was actually decent so fans of that movie are biased.

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

felixdaniels37 no. It's because she portrays her character great. While the others are so separate from their original character, you can't even really call them that character.

[@rikowolfin4984]

I thought it was because they show her ass a lot in tight pants : U

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

Riko Wolfin it can be that too.

[@lieutenantotaku4151]

I love how smart pat thinks he's being by asking the question "oh why doesn't every kryptonian just go to a planet that makes them stronger?" and then immediately answers it himself when they bring up the Krypton series, its cause their all fuckin DEAD! Except Clark, Kara and some stragglers who keep in mind all come to earth eventually.

[@mehulsahai4209]

Zmaster 77 I think he meant why they never just colonise outside krypton. They clearly become the one of the strongest races in the dc movies when out of the red sun. They might justify it in the TV series. But honestly it's something that's never made sense to me.

[@apajpap]

There was a reason given in the new 52 something about gravity being too strong

[@mehulsahai4209]

apajpap Man of steel and BvS both featured a Kryptonian scout ship that was sent to earth. Clearly spaceflight was not an issue for the movie Kryptonians.

[@apajpap]

That was the new 52 explanation in the other iterations i dont know if give a reason they didnt leave

[@felixdaniels37]

Mehul Sahai It's been answered several times, each Age having a different answer. Gold/Silver age was a mix of not knowing/not caring. Bronze Age had the Green Lanterns failing to warn them and protecting the planet.

[@Satsaru]

They should have built the dceu out of the Dark Knight trilogy instead of trying to reboot and go from scratch. Then we could have had the goofy fun marvel movies and the gritty serious dc movies for superhero variety.

[@sporeceress1465]

How would that work, though? Dark Knight Rises does the multi-year timejump to Bruce being retired/old and busted, then he comes back, then he retires again. Plus the Nolanverse never acknowledges the existence of like, ANYTHING outside Gotham and wherever the fuck it is the League of Shadows is based out of, so it would be awkward as hell to go "And also Superman and Wonder Woman and all the rest were there the whole time." Like... Bane held Gotham hostage with a nuclear warhead and Supes just sat around watching for MONTHS? Really? Maybe if you wrote Rises out of it and just rewound to the end of The Dark Knight or even Batman Begins, but it would still be weird and awkward and no better a place to start than just rebooting the Batman side of things entirely IMO.

[@Aizen2468]

The Eurythmic King of Nowhere late but....actually....what you just described fits perfectly with this verse because A, the Batman they went for was supposed to be older anyways, and B, Superman of MOS basically stays hidden all the way up to his thirties because his Dad was a dick. Same for Wonder Woman. You asked where Superman and Wonder woman were during Bane holding Gotham hostage. I ask...Where the fuck was she when Zodd tried to terraform the WORLD lol XD being emo, that's where. She's probably be emo for the Gotham crisis and ignore that one too

[@attackofthecopyrightbots]

*says its mostly garbage* "pat says dc getting better"

[@johjoh4571]

i want a reshoot where they fight ivan ooze

[@Sanodi21]

Steppenwolf is the uncle of Darkseid, IIRC. Also, didn't yet have another outfit set for the Flash but Whedon never used it?

[@ngmajora6986]

Cyborg should have been Jon Stewart Green Lantern and Aquaman should have been Hawkgirl.......Maybe I should watch actual Justice League for the 1,000th time

[@slayertakim1]

NGMajora cyborg should have been MARTIN MANHUNTER. Cyborg should have never been in the JL

[@felixdaniels37]

slayertakim1 Seriously, the consistent Cyborg push for JL has been baffling. He has always worked best as a Teen Titan. Hell, the only reason he's even remotely relevant was because the original cartoon made him popular.

[@ngmajora6986]

felixdaniels37 And they don't even use his TT design they always go for the Robocop look or the Bayformer with a human head

[@rikowolfin4984]

Too bad they gave him a much better design AT THE END OF THE MOVIE. Seriously, he looks 10 times better then that bland the one they stuck with.

[@GermanKinsmen]

Aquaman is better than Hawkthot ever was. In the comics and the cartoon.

[@Leon-169]

I work at a movie theatre, and one of the perks of working there is that I have the chance to watch movies early. For Justice League, I watched it the day before it came out. I thought it was a decent film, though bear in mind that my expectations, thanks to Man of Steel and BvS: Dawn of Justice, were ASTRONOMICALLY low. But there are so many better movies that you could have watched at the time If you haven’t watched Justice League, then let me tell you, you ain’t missing out on much

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

You know what's the saddest thing about this? Not the being bad, not the DCEU being rushed, not copying marvel, those are bad but what I'm about to say is worse. The characters, aside from Wonder Woman, are so poorly represented that I can't even call them their characters. Superman is supposed to be fucking better All Might, (yeah, controversial opinion here in this community, but it's true.) Superman is so chill and awesome that you would love to talk to him, he's the type of guy to take the time to talk to a little kid that looks sad, to try and prevent a teenage girl from committing suicide, to be always put Earth as a whole first before anything, to always remember his humanity despite his power and origins to always find another way, and most importantly, to always be Clark Kent first before superman. And Batman sucks too, fucking murder man who doesn't save a single life ever, and is so fucking brutal and near evil I can't call him Batman. On a side note, Steppenwulf should be a bad ass villain with a strong presence that should prove a threat to the entire league, with the attitude of a Hunter that LOVES the thrill of fighting, Not boring nothing overlord like in the movie. And pat, krypton is their home were they have made their technology, make their crops, and live a for the most part, extremely peaceful life. Why would they have the need to move to a different planet just because, "OH YEAH SUPERPOWERS WE DONT EVEN NEED!" And start all over again? There's other reasons that differ from comic to comic that are more complex, and some good explanations, but simply "we don't want to leave our home" works the best.

[@alucardyoici]

What is with W.B using guys like Steppenwolf and KGBeast anyway? Like Marvel does that but they try to give them a cooler motivation or design. Also maybe if they had superpowers they wouldn't have gotten fucked by a meteor? Or live in the hope Mongul or other galactic overlords never find them? Or just whatever the fuck kind of shitty regime they had where you lobotomize scientist you deemed heretic wanted to expand? Like we didn't need that much reason to go on the moon

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

alucardyoici honestly, if they went to a yellow sun, they would still have the same problems. Meteor fucking their planet up would be kind of fixed, but everything else would just be the same. There's an actual comic reason that works best in that the kryptonians were extremely xenophobic and didn't want to venture out, which can work. But I don't know, krypton blowing up has always been a goofy origin story if you really think about it.

[@GrugGangGrugGang]

Pretty sure what started the gritty Superman was how popular Injustice was/is.

[@ricemazter]

For me, anything justice league related has never been as good as justice league unlimited, not even the comics. It's a weird franchise where the creators are desperately clinging to some aspects of the original gold and bronze age material (like Hal Jordan being "the" green lantern), but distancing themselves from others (we need to make aqua man as big and gritty as possible, how else will people take him seriously).

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

ricemazter you sure not even the comics? I mean, unlimited borrows A LOT from them dude.

[@ricemazter]

Brian. Jr Montoya I'm mostly thinking of the comics post 2011 reboot. That's where most of my DC experience is anyway. Can't speak for Rebirth, though.

[@shagohad3]

My favorite Aqua Man is Brave and The Bold's take on him.

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

ricemazter ohhhhh, the new 52. Yeah, those ones are okay. But rebirth is WAY better, and the classic stories and graphic novels are just, you can't beat em.

[@GrugGangGrugGang]

Can we just scrap Hal like always and get the far superior John Stewart?

[@GrassToucher-]

So who's the super cool villain in the post-credit scene Mat was tslking about?

[@alucardyoici]

deathstroke, which is kind of dumb since what the fuck samurai witha gun can do?

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

alucardyoici he's held off a majority of the justice league once. And has near deadpool healing factor, a master strategist, tripped over the flash once, stole kid flash's speed force, has super strength due to a drug he took, beat Batman and Wonder Woman in a one on one fight, managed to keep up with Superman without dying.....the guy has a lot under his belt, don't underestimate him.

[@alucardyoici]

Yes because of bullshit author favoritism that makes Batman look like a jobber by comparison. Like tripping flash should be physically impossible for it would be like catching a bullet because you know where it's gonna hit, his master strategist is using kids and staying the fuck away of heroes, he only attacked the Titan to honor his son's contract otherwise he would have never tried it because he is way under their level.

[@GrugGangGrugGang]

Oh come on, you act like 90% of the comics as a whole aren't Mary Sue bullshit. You also mentioned by name the biggest offender of that shit DC has. The Flash is the most inconstant hero in comics.

[@roarshach13]

The Parademons are my favorite thing about the DCEU because I love that they keep not explaining what they are.

[@toxsun]

Just a reminder that the Snyder cut DID come out, and it made the movie a arguably better one than the theatrical version.

[@scrat9870]

it's still a mess, but a much cleaner mess than the original

[@TheShockVox]

Pat.....you get very little say when you only have half in the bag to go off of. Remember, you all dug Rogue One, the RLM crew didn't. Form your opinion when you see it. That being said, yeah, it's not a good movie.

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

chris campbell no it's not. Rogue One is a bunch of fucking nothing that serves no purpose and no truly likable characters. Just say it, it's because you think it's SJW trash, that's the only reason you have aside from plot, because that's all you guys can say.

[@Sigismund697]

ray is fine until the point when she suddenly becomes jesus flinn is at least entertaining to see too bad all of his backstory/development is given in additional materials instead of the movie

[@KurstKensei]

Remember these guys also loved Terminator Genesis when RLM also didn't.

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

Friendly yoyo I'm not speaking from opinion, I'm speaking from the logic of what makes a movie work. If you don't like Force Awakens, that's perfectly fine, but it baffles me to think that people think Rogue one is great or at least better.

[@AdmiralBetas]

+chris campbell Words cannot express the rage I feel at RLM for giving Star Wars VII: A Newer Hope a pass and then shitting on Rogue One for relying too much on nostalgia. But I also agree with Brian that not being a remake is very faint praise for an otherwise meh movie.

[@glestrade5112]

It's baffling how much WB has fucked up their cinematic universe. They had Superman, THE Superhero, the one anyone on the fucking planet knows, and they make a movie that isn't anything like how Superman would actually act. They have Batman, arguably more recognizable than Superman at this point, the one everyone knows will never take a life, and they make him a machine gun toting murderer. They have Wonder Woman, the most recognizable female superhero in history and one of the most enduring symbols of feminism, and they cast a stick that can't act in a movie where Chris Pratt has to carry her. They have THE most iconic superhero team ever created, something everyone knows due to dozens of cartoons, and they manage to fuck THAT up too! Jesus christ!

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

G Lestrade you can fuck off with the Wonder Woman point, but everything else I agree heavily on.

[@glestrade5112]

Telling someone to fuck off is a pretty compelling argument for making me take that awful movie and the people that like it seriously.

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

G Lestrade I don't care. Why should I make a compelling argument to someone who won't give a damn and listen anyways. It's a waste.

[@Yal_Rathol]

your forgot the fact that DC's villains are some of the most interesting and compelling characters ever created, which they managed to turn into forgettable, bland characters who often betray their own motivation and established dynamic in the last 10 minutes. thanks suicide squad!

[@GrugGangGrugGang]

Spiderman is actually the top grossing/ easiest to sell merchandise/ most well known. But otherwise spot on more or less.

[@benhramiak8781]

The comics were waaay better. Now that's an understatement.

[@parker469a]

The cyborg bugs are supposed to be Darksied's minions.

[@taylortierney6542]

Comic nerd answer, two months late: Krypton has been retconned a bunch of times, so precise answers depend on what run of Superman or whatever the fuck, and my answers are mostly stuff that I haven't read in years, but here we go; Krypton used to have a cast based sort of system, with military jocks, science nerds, pretentious artists, priests (I know _very_ little about them), and the filthy proles. The military people used to be in charge, they had a council, and they went around conquering space, using both Kryptonian superpower bullshit, and Kryptonian supertech bullshit. Then the rest of the Kryptonians got sick of it, so the science nerds made their own council and sent all the jocks to the phantom zone. This lasted for an unspecified amount of time, but the science council was in charge for at least a couple generations, and they enforced isolationist policies, making sure everyone didn't leave the fucking planet. Kryptonian tech was good enough that you really didn't need Superman powers anyway, so people, aside from some surviving jocks like Zod (who was a military liaison to the ruling science nerds), , forgot about how cool superpowers were. In at elast one iteration of Krypton, they had some sort of sickness thing that made them slowly die if they left Krypton, and Superman's dad managed to bypass it by having Superman technically be born on Earth with some dimensional fuckery.

[@GigachadVTuberEnjoyer]

guys its time for the big team up movie! what big bad should they face?! well, we set up for darkseid in batman vs. superman with the giant omega symbol burned into the earth in batman's "dream" yeah well.... lets do this literally who character instead :^)

[@karite2]

My family went to see it while away, all of them hated it, this is a mix of super hero knowledge and super hero dgaf.

[@Th3SmartAlec]

9:28 That poster's hilarious.

[@attackofthecopyrightbots]

i cant find that cyborg gif..?

[@joshbouman1654]

This is the most nothing movie I've ever seen. Terrible CG, pointless generic villain, inconsistent tone, annoying flash, paint by numbers script. Just a goddamn disaster.

[@jiskool1]

I saw it first on bootleg then in 4D. I loved the film. The only thing I want now is to see the directors cut.

[@lordlossize]

"you dont have the solo movie after the team up" *spider man homecoming sneaks off in the distance* though, to be fair, spiderman is one of those heroes whose films have been repeatedly fucked over by his owners. first it was a trilogy, then it was ASM, then its MCU spiderman.

[@rudedude7874]

Its a shame I wont hear them talk about the snyder cut

[@omfg322]

The only good thing about justice league was the 1v5 fight of deranged superman vs everyone else and how effortlessly at maybe about 1/50th of his full power was able to 1v5 the justice league. Which on film today is one of the greatest examples of oh shit superman actually pretty strong and hes holding back 99.9% of the time.

[@AwesomeCornSauce]

Justice league was a movie.

[@zeterzero4356]

I enjoyed myself, but it does have problems. A lot of problems. But hey, I genuinely enjoy Mystery Men as a super hero team up movie, so that's probably part of it. I love me some camp.

[@crumdogy]

Zeter Zero I wish Casanova Frankenstein was a real comic book villain.

[@zeterzero4356]

SwampFox Yeah man. Yeah.

[@Mr.2Dirty]

So here’s my grievance that I have with this movie. They showed the fuck out of that green lantern ring, they got me hype af thinking that imma see like John Stewart or Hal Jordanr, hell Id have even took Kyle Rayner or Guy Gardner. Did not show a single lantern.

[@crumdogy]

*Spoilers* Weird that people thought Deathstroke was cool, he looked stupid af as soon as he took the mask off.

[@AntiNihilist]

Am I the only one kind of lost on what Matt was talking about the impact of each of the characters? Everyone I went to the movie with agreed pretty well that Aquaman was the best or really really good at the very least. Wonder Woman did as predicted, Cyborg was Cyborg, Batman was maybe a little bit more insufferable but just fine. Superman was better, partly because of that creepy smile. BUT HOW THE FUCK DO YOU SAY THE FLASH ISN'T INTOLERABLE???? He is THE WORST. I fully expect him to be good in his own movie since I see this as Flash's first mission. I hope if he fights reverse flash or gorilla grodd he'll toughen up a bit. Steppenwolf isn't the best, sure, but it's guys like him that MADE the "typical villain" cliche. All of Darkseid's army, and Brainiac for that matter, think they are superior to everyone else and just was to kill or rule over everyone else. Or you get the few villains who just want to murder everyone because murder is fun. Where are the "deep" world ending villains? Also the "bug" army was fully explained. But if they think they're robots then...ok. That's really dumb though.

[@attackofthecopyrightbots]

civil war

[@dahakaguardianofthetimelin4780]

Pat: "I hear really good things about Superman in this movie. First scene Superman is in: CGI disaster First thing he does after coming back to life: beat up the Justice League and beat up a woman (Wonder Woman but a woman nonetheless) First thing he says: "Maybe the world doesn't need you" before recycling Batman's "Do you bleed" and immediately trying to either kill him or act in criminal neglect to the fact he holds a normal man in his hands. Oh yeah... DC totally realized they don't understand what Superman is anymore... Totally. It's almost like people praising this movie are braindead pieces of shit who would be satisfied by any piece of garbage as long as Superman punches a lot of things and it looks really cool.

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

EASTERN EUROPEAN ORPHAN like I said. Superman is supposed to be a better all might. And they make him fucking terrible in ALL of the DCEU movies

[@glestrade5112]

You also left out the part where he actually saves people, competes with Flash, and actually smiles. Also he recently came back from the dead and was confused, and saying someone's a terrible person because they hit a woman is kinda incredibly sexist, since it implies Wonder Woman is a dainty flower that can't take a hit. So yeah.

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

G Lestrade "saves some people, competes with flash, and smiles." THATS NOT ENOUGH! THAT IS THE BEAR MINIMUM.

[@zeroskaterz92]

The only reason he beat JL up because he was in a state of not remembering who he was. Let's just pretend to be a fucking idiot to ignore the context. Oh he beat Wonder Woman, muh woman. Sounds like a triggered feminist.

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

feyzal92 oh fuck off, don't even defend Superman in this movie.

[@TheTsugnawmi2010]

JL is just a 5/10. Nothing especially good or bad. It's two biggest flaws are its shallow rip-off characters (WW = Thor, BM = Iron Man, Flash = Spiderman etc.) and the fans overhyping the SHIT out of it. But since we're here let's point out its other flaws: Steppenwolff is GARBAGE. Less than one-dimensional. Give me Darkseid instead, please. How has it taken Wonder Woman OVER A CENTURY to get over Steve Trevor?! Gathering the team was way too easy. It was akin to how the Suicide Squad was gathered together Parademons in the FIRST SCENE? Hi, why? Where? Did Aquaman have a character? Cuz to me it just looked like he was trying too hard to be cool. Motherboxes have turned into Infinity Stones. Gotta catch 'em all to rule the world! Superman is overpowered as fuck. He renders the rest of the League utterly useless.

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

TheTsugnawmi2010 it's shallow rip off characters...... have you ever seen a justice league anything before? I thought the characters were fucking awful because the poorly represented the original characters, aside from Wonder Woman. Mind being a bit more specific by what you mean in terms of shallow rip offs?

[@TheTsugnawmi2010]

Hey Brian, have you ever seen a Marvel movie before? Because if you had, then my first comment had more than enough information to wrap your brain around.

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

TheTsugnawmi2010 I have, I've also read marvel comics and dc comics. If your problem is that Batman is a smart tech guy and Wonder Woman is an ancient warrior, that's not a valid complaint, because they've always been like that since their creation, and that's where the very little similarities end. The only one I can see is the flash, because he didn't feel like the flash. He felt more like an awkward spider man character, nerdy and anti social. The flash I know is supposed to be cocky, a little arrogant, fun, and so sure of himself.

[@Dessarius]

I'm not a Superhero fan (I don't like Marvel OR DC, with a few exceptions.) and had no clue at all who it was when they kept saying Steppenwolf. I honest to god thought they were talking about a streamer or it was an inside joke or something. Awkward.

[@ilovehertodeath]

It's funny, because Wonder Woman wasn't even that good so for Justice League to be worse then that means its pretty bad.

[@Cherryponut]

Stephen Wolf is just one tall momma's boy.

[@metalmugen]

This movie was just fucking terrible.

[@DynastyKing1212]

and justice league sucked, surprising no one

[@Yal_Rathol]

Dynasty King wrong, it surprised the optimists and the fanatics.

[@DynastyKing1212]

those people still exist? sorry, i just assume everyones a miserable fuck expecting the worst all the time

[@Yal_Rathol]

Dynasty King yeah, they exist. and they come out in droves around movie releases.

[@TheRealSplitterguy]

Not for this movie release.

[@attackofthecopyrightbots]

12:50 wtf pat

[@jamg25]

To be fair, Age of Ultron was the better movie.

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

Mega Mix Jam I disagree, justice league wasn't that much better, like a .01%, but the benefit justice league had was honestly Wonder Woman. She's so likeable that I prefer her over the dgaf heroes in justice league, and the comedians in age of Ultron.

[@attackofthecopyrightbots]

I disagree as well

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

They Don't Reply Back well pats dumb when it comes to comics or comic related things for the most part, his say doesn't really matter.

[@attackofthecopyrightbots]

Thats true but I'm binging all of these and there are so many parts where pat either contradicts himself or is just plain wrong its infuriating

[@Murdoc2568]

5:50 NO SHIT. He's a character almost entirely defined by being a whitewashed, milquetoast ripoff of Namor with the ability to TALK TO FISH.

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

Murdoc2568 even though he's been fixed to be a bad ass hero, talking about the comics by the way, who rules Atlantis with a strong will and compassion for his people, the powers of Poseidon, and does not talk to fish. He doesn't mind taking the lives of villains because he follows the ancient laws and justice of Atlantis. Started off as lamer namor, but thankfully became a bad ass in his own right. For the fact the movie missed that makes me fucking SAD.

[@Murdoc2568]

Okay, yes: a competent writer can make Aquaman into a decent character. Still, there isn't much to that character. And I will always have a problem with Black Manta.

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

Murdoc2568 you'd be surprised. You can do quite a lot with the setting of Atlantis and it's characters and villains. And on the subject of Black Manta, why? He's one of the best DC villains by far. I'm assuming you're talking about the old ridiculous as shit Black Manta.

[@Murdoc2568]

I mean Black Supremacist Black Manta. You know how, back in the 30s and 40s, the line between racial caricature and innocent comic book drawing was a lot more...let's say blurry. I'm talking about stuff like Yellow Claw, Ebony White or anything drawn by George Herriman. The same could be said of Namor's original design when he debuted in 1939. He was drawn with the exaggerated angular features used to depict people of east asian descent. So, naturally, when DC ripped off the character, they turned him into a blonde white man. And in the 1970s, they revealed Black Manta--Aquaman's most iconic villain by that point--to have been a secret black supremacist motivated by a desire to usurp the throne of Atlantis. www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/698964/Aquaman-Black-Manta-black-supremacist-Justice-League-Jason-Momoa-DCEU-DC-comics So to recap: 1.) Namor was originally something of an east asian racial caricature. 2.) DC ripped off that character and made him a white man. 3.) They made that white man's primary nemesis into a black supremacist, specifically in response to the Black Panther movement. Yeah.

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

Murdoc2568 ah. I understand where you're coming from completely. Those were the dark ages of comics for those characters. But I already said how they fixed Aquaman, so with Manta, they gave him a FAR better reason to kill Aquaman and his people, because Aquaman killed his father. Essentially they both hate each other because Manta indirectly killed Aquamans father, and Aquaman mistook Mantas father for him. So their hatred and bitterness is based on that. Manta is also more of a cold a calculative assassin that has no regrets of anything he does, and will hurt anyone and anything to get to his target. They also made sure that his race plays not a single part in his character, like the dumb old comics of him.

[@darrianweathington1923]

It was not great. Better than suicide squad though

[@Cruz7471]

I don't like hearing matt talk about movies.

[@SupremeOptimus]

So I guess everyone forgot that Marvel copied everything, and then everyone praises Marvel. That being said JL was a good movie, just not great.

[@Yal_Rathol]

Supreme Optimus nothing is original. superman is based on greek myths and superhumans of ancient legend, so DC copied everything too.