Scattershot is a Dice Roll - Season 12 New Cannon Ammo

[@LoonieToque]

P.S. If anyone at Rare is watching, I would love for this to be buffed for PvP. I know y'all put in the work and want us to use it, but I don't just wanna throw fights by using it 😅 Higher (or no) damage cap, tighter spread, longer range - *any* single buff would genuinely make a difference 🙏

[@user-ij8ef2ck4u]

no damage cap is the most logical solution. it really looks like it's a bug, not a feature

[@hohoucgguztizi4655]

an update just came out, im curious if anything is different

[@Mooncake69420]

i hate to break it to you but sadly rare does not give two sh*ts about pvpers in their game :( Edit: love your videos btw

[@LoonieToque]

@@Mooncake69420 They do care, but PvP-focused gameplay is not a priority. The bulk of feedback I've seen for example for Scattershot is that it's terrifying for Galleons to deal with, but absolutely no one agrees with that at a higher level of play. I do think they went too "safe" on Scattershot but hopefully it's being considered for balance just like the new weapons are (because they were also balanced on the "safe" side a little too hard)

[@JustHereForTheDialogue]

You could give it all or a few of these buffs even and it wouldn’t break the game. I’m all down for changing up the naval meta with new unique cannon munitions. Love that they are taking a look at the new weapons at least however the proposed changes won’t save them…

[@MylesJacobSwie]

I really feel like the best case for Scattershot is either give it the ability to stack up to 100%, or give it knockback. Even just having knockback gives it utility as a finisher during a death spiral to keep knocking people off holes while also potentially hitting top deck/cannons.

[@LoonieToque]

Scattershot with Knockback would make Blunderbombs (which were nerfed) matter even less than they already do for the same feature - Scatter would knock people around over a much wider area on the boat. I like the idea on the surface, but this is a really good example of why balancing is difficult! Stacking damage (as the release notes imply) would likely be the most intuitive solution IMO

[@Beanpolr]

​@@LoonieToqueYeah i feel like stacking damage is the best way to buff it to actually be useful. It's already very tough to make use of, so I don't see why it shouldn't have the potential to be devastating. It's obvious they want it to be your classic shotgun archetype where it's weak at mid-long range, strong up close, so all they need to do is actually give it the potential to be strong at close range.

[@bobmcbob49]

I've found they're useful on galleons for the same reason it's useful on high waves. Galleys often run into scenarios where the enemy ship is too low to hit, in which case the scattershot lets you keep hitting.

[@samo_blamo]

The work and research you put into these really shows. Theyre quite informative and really shows your knowledge and love for the game. Also im fully convinced a lot of this video is you flexing your pvp skills Kappa

[@grumpyw01f19]

I think making scattershots stack more would be very powerful - after 5 hits, you have potentially 4 tier 5 holes. I think an appropriate buff would be be for each hole to track how many times it's been hit by a scattershot. So if a hole is at 60% from a regular cannonball, it goes to 80% after getting hit by a scattershot. Then they're still useful after being hit by something else, and are the better option for finishing off a target. Then, make the spawn ball create a tier 4 or 5 hole so scatter shots really tear up another ship if you're really close.

[@LoonieToque]

Even if it's extremely powerful up close, I think that's fine (it's just more reinforcement that close = danger). A simpler solution is less buggy and easier to understand. Good point that the spawn ball needs a buff as well!

[@grumpyw01f19]

@@LoonieToque I think that the spawn ball being great just makes the weapon feel correct. Because when you're close enough to hit with the spawn ball, all the tiny shots only hit one hole, and so at that range, the scattershots are worse than regular cannonballs. It doesn't make sense.

[@Wh1zzrr_]

The shout out was so good, Loonie 🥰 Loved this Sea of Science video too!

[@VampKain696]

Dude, keep up with videos like this and 5 tier holes video! Make stuff about numbers, speed, etc. You have all it takes to become the numbers and stats guy for this game. And new players need that. Good luck to ya!

[@LoonieToque]

Thank you so much! It's been fun finding a content niche that serves both new and experienced players. I'm happy to keep it going!

[@VampKain696]

@@LoonieToque I'm a returning player. And it so happened, that I'm a director and editor. If I can be of any help to ya, let me know. A little suggestion for your research: how bout a "TTK video"? Best weapon combos, pros & cons. New players will be happy to get good dive in numbers bout that.

[@LoonieToque]

There's a full weapon damage video in my queue (2 videos from now) - it'll somewhat discuss TTK & DPS (which matters mostly for PvE bosses and not PvP, and also has _different numbers_ than PvP strangely) as well as combos. I'm not rushing into it until there's some fixes for the new weapons, which are actively happening now by the looks of it! That way the video can be relevant for longer I appreciate your offer too; most of the help I currently need is in the science department (e.g. when two crews are required), which I mostly organise with my Discord community at the moment!

[@TheoWadeFraser]

The research and detail this guy goes into is fantastic. Most educational SoT channel I’ve yet found. Really really good work. I’m gonna get Veils done so much more easily now. 😂

[@brandonbrown9489]

It seems to be more for taking on galleons especially if you are a smaller crew. Helps open alot of holes to apply more pressure if you are close broadside and then you can combo with the regular cannonballs and maybe some curses to overwhelm them. Against a brig or sloop though it is less effective because there is only one level to put holes in and its much easier to keep track of those holes. The cap on hole sizes makes sense too if you think of them as a utility for adding pressure rather than the main gun finishing the fight

[@LoonieToque]

If you're in a smaller crew that close to a galleon broadside, you've already lost. 7:09 has a rundown, if you can spare a couple minutes. Just use regular cannonballs if you want to apply pressure that matters instead of depending on luck to do likely less damage

[@pianokruemel]

last time i did the veil, i noticed that scattershots are really op for this. Now i have the data to back it up. Thanks man. This video is really good :)

[@Jadeblades_]

Also a really practical way to use scatter shot in sloop pvp is using them on a high wave. Good way to keep spreading damage and potentially hit down a mast since its falloff is extreme 🙏🎉.

[@knyt0]

9:29

[@NotDawnMad]

Very informative and clear video, I'm glad this information is public already. I'm wondering if a single Scattershot can do multiple damage instances to a single mast, I know this isn't the case for ship holes but I didn't see anything about masts anywhere. Would you happen to know anything about this from your testing?

[@LoonieToque]

Thanks! I tried *really* hard to get data on multiple mast hits on the same mast, but it's just too random. You can fire dozens and dozens of Scattershot and still never have two line up on the mast where you're "aiming" - makes for very expensive testing in terms of resource gathering. Would love to know this one day though!

[@terribleideas9876]

Even in the teaser trailer, it was advertised that chain shots were a great way to waste enemies' wood.

[@LoonieToque]

I assume you meant Scattershot, but yeah, why waste wood (which doesn't effectively work anyways) when you can just sink the ship instead using regular cannonballs? 🤔

[@Jadeblades_]

I love everything about your channel ❤. Thumbnails to videos to extremely well put together guides.

[@LoonieToque]

Really appreciate the kind words, it means a lot! Glad you're enjoying the content!

[@sopito9923]

Im late to the party but i think scatter shot was made for sloops to use against galleons, sometimes, when im already close or the tide is high, is hard (or impossible) to get an angle on galleon's lower deck, and that's when scatter shot's high weight comes into play, it falls closer and it manages to reach lower deck

[@LoonieToque]

All demonstrated at 7:07. If you're close enough as a sloop to a galleon to use Scattershot effectively, you're in mega danger zone. You might land a piece or two on the lower deck with luck, but it's very easily dealt with meanwhile you're at high risk of getting one-balled, de-masted, or boarded (especially since you can't put meaningful pressure on them with Scattershot) High wave scenario is definitely a "better than nothing" use-case, but maintaining a little more distance and hitting with regular cannonballs has much more effectiveness

[@hegemon3]

Again, amazing content. Incredibly informative. Thanks for all your work!

[@LoonieToque]

And thank _you_ for the kind words! Super fun to share this info in this way

[@Jeyciii]

i found one use for them in pvp: high waves; sometimes you cant aim low enough to hit the ship when you get a high wave, but the shorter drop from scattershot can hit it.

[@lerpog4509]

bro didnt even watch the video

[@JustHereForTheDialogue]

Fuckin brutal one balls clips at the end lmao. Naughty. Increase damage stacking, tighten up the spread a bit so it can be aimed in someway, bish bash bosh.

[@winterwolf1250]

I think the mentality in PvP is you pop a Scattershot to open a bunch of small holes up and then rake regular cannonballs down the side of the ship to turn them into T2.5 holes which are nothing really to sneeze at. I'd say try running a test where you fire a scattershot and then rake the side of the ship with 2-3 cannonballs and see if the time to concern changes at all. Because if you can get the maximum value of 80% across the ship in holes and then after bump all those 20%s to 80% holes which have 5 second repair times... I mean.. that sounds like it would be good right?

[@LoonieToque]

A common thought, but it's entirely academic. Realistic fights don't usually open within Scattershot range, and even when they do, getting more damage that matters faster (cannonballs or chainshot) is simply better at securing the sink. It's already nearly impossible to land all 4 Scattershot pieces in a controlled environment, let alone in active combat.

[@manwithnewname]

How about one or two scattershot volleys to start, followed up by cannonballs to get those holes from 20-40% to 80%-100%? They get 3-4 holes with your first shot to increase the repairs needed, then you increase the water intake and pressure with knockbacks using regular cannonballs.

[@LoonieToque]

5:44 briefly but completely addresses this - you can just use cannonballs instead for more damage (especially note this via the "time to concern" comparison at 6:12) , and _most_ importantly, fights generally don't start at such close ranges

[@manwithnewname]

@@LoonieToque no, not quite: you compared pure scatter to pure cannonballs, but that got me thinking you could have less wasted shots and more damage (in theory) by combining both types. Because two cannons hitting the same spot can only ever get to 100% damage, the extra 20% damage in that case is *wasted*, whereas 1 scatter + 1 cannon can create 1 hole at 80% with 3 other holes at 20% ready for follow up shots and needing their own repairs. Besides that, look what happens when we consider just a few shots: 1 scatter + 1 cannon = 140% damage total, 2 cannons hitting the same spot = 100% damage total, and 2 cannons hitting different spots = 120% damage total. For 3 shots: 2 scatters + 1 cannon = 220% damage, 1 scatter + 2 cannons hitting different spots = 200% damage, and 3 cannons hitting different spots = 180% damage. More total damage = higher water intake = quicker "time of concern", right? It's mainly the effective damage drop off after the second scattershot caused by the 40% cap that has cannonballs winning so easily in your test. In practice though you're definitely right: you're probably not gonna be able to nor want to get close enough to get perfect scatter hits at the start of a fight, and you don't get the added benefit of knockbacks or the player damage of regular cannons.

[@LoonieToque]

@@manwithnewname Totally hear you on the "wasted" damage - it's actually something I discussed in the original script with my wife, but didn't make the final video. If we could actually _aim_ Scattershot, I think we'd be on to something with Scatter first, but for now reality seems to indicate more is "wasted" with trying to get a couple Scatters off first. If we were to run the time-to-concern thing with Scatter first, my confident bet (and it's a bet, to be fair) is that we wouldn't hit enough _in reality_ to _reliably_ outpace solely regular cannonballs. A fairly-guaranteed 60% is just so much better than 0%-80%, especially when that 80% is so theoretical as to be gosh darn near impossible. Hitting all 4 shots pieces in places that matter would definitely be an ideal opener for hull damage in that extremely unlikely scenario, but at that range you could also take down masts (chainshot) or one-ball pirates (cannonballs) with relative ease, both of which are more likely to be of value. IMO that's the final nail in the coffin for that Scattershot edge-case, unfortunately.

[@krish3101]

thanks for the research!

[@Thaxos]

Been waiting for this one! Great video🎉

[@KevinSmith-iw5qm]

Wow

[@KevinSmith-iw5qm]

That viel scatter shot seems absolutely broken. I love it.

[@AGrumpyPanda]

The two main things holding scattershot back are the lack of knockback, and the fact that galleons only care about one deck of holes at a time. They'd make a nice equaliser against galleons if upper holes meant anything at all until the lower deck completely flooded, or if you could use them to knock pirates off of multiple holes at once reducing the repair efficiency of larger crews, but as they are their use is situational at best. One thing that wasn't covered here is damage to steering wheels and anchors; is one individual ball still one point of damage to each? If so, then it can be worth working a couple shots into an already crippled target to stop them being able to properly recover.

[@LoonieToque]

It is, yes - around 9:10 you can see weakened masts being taken down by individual shot pieces hitting them (one hit = one crack). This works for the other ship components too, for one "point" of damage each. Still depends on luck rather than aim (a chainshot or cannonball that you specifically aim at the wheel, anchor, or mast will do far more damage) but it _can_ be a way to get a lucky 20% hole or two at the same time as getting that last point of damage on the mast, if you feel like rolling the dice!

[@LusciousGauntlet]

Hey Loonie! Your doing amazing! Wonderful Job!

[@gustei5449]

I think scattershot might work best for knocking planks of wood off holes, if you did a lot of damage with cannonballs

[@LoonieToque]

Knocking the planks off doesn't do anything different, it's purely visual. A planked 100% hole if hit with Scattershot will still only be a 20% hole

[@gustei5449]

@@LoonieToque damn that sucks

[@deadpixels526]

Bro your content is great

[@peterforsberg2023]

I think you have done more testing then Rare have! You are awesome!

[@LoonieToque]

I'm sure they did lots! There's some very specific behaviours that don't seem like accidents. I'm just hoping for a balancing patch soon, it is a live service game after all 🤞

[@GlitchMan1011]

So in the times of old naval warfare with cannons, double and triple shot were a real thing but they were only used at “pistol range” meaning it was extremely close range. And it was everything but accurate. They basically aimed at any point in the hull and fired. I think the devs have not fully explained the true purpose of the scattershot here but as you said, it does more damage in really close ranges and that should be the real time to use it. They were never meant to be a mid range cannon ammunition but instead a super close range thing.

[@LoonieToque]

It doesn't compare well to reality, but for the short range spawn ball behaviour, you're better off just using a cannonball. Still one-shots pirates, but causes more hull damage. To be utterly fair, the devs did say it's good for consuming wood resources of your enemy. But that only really works against less-combat-experienced crews IMO, and then every other option is still more effective at actually sinking them. I'd rather sink someone quickly than just mess with them slowly until they run out of planks!

[@cookicha]

Our scientist is already back! ❤

[@LoonieToque]

And gonna be back with a "hot" 🔥 topic soon 👀 Thanks for the hype!

[@thepuppetboy87]

I think scatter shots are good to end a fight. If you’re doing hourglass then chances are you’re hitting shots and giving tier 3s so by the end use the scatters to reopen any tier 3s that they patched

[@LoonieToque]

A common misconception, but repaired holes don't behave differently from new ones. Scattershot will only ever bring a hole to 40%

[@rockyreecey4191]

I wonder if they should rework scatter shot to be more useful in PvE and PvP. Kinda seems like it's still just a cannonball I'd just use for commendations and not for actual combat.

[@LoonieToque]

I almost put in a "changes I would like" section for that reason. Right now, it's a tool for Commendation progress, but not really a tool for Adventure! Any single buff to them at all (range, remove damage cap, tighten spread, remove the spawn ball interruptions) would be great for getting them to matter more

[@grillo_419]

the only use i see in pvp for scatter bombs is damaging more things at once, if you shoot at the deck you might damage the mast wheel anchor and hull in one hit the thing is that it's so random that it's kinda useless, plus if you are sailing higher than the enemy you an hit them with scatter shot when your regular cannon balls would fly above the enemy, other than that you need to be really creative to use them.

[@Thusad]

it also gives you 5 more shots before rebaling

[@LoonieToque]

True, but if you've already hit with regular cannonballs (60% holes), Scattershot is even more unlikely to cause damage

[@silvercat18]

Scattershot has been such a let down - with the balance adjustment to the double pistol, i am surprised they simply forgot scattershot. Even newbies quickly worked out not to shoot it.

[@JPEGArtifact]

It seems like they're pretty good at eating resources. Which were their intended use, wasn't it?

[@LoonieToque]

It's their only officially-advertised use, but in its current form that only "works" on crews that panic at any amount of water intake (i.e. mostly PvP inexperienced crews). Experienced crews won't priortise repairing a 20% hole, nor is this really going to make a difference in a war of attrition (especially in the current supply economy, it's just so easy to get planks) Ideally, Scattershot gets buffed in a way it works against experienced crews too, rather than just farming less-experienced crews for commendations 😅

[@HJ1427.]

Scattershota are good if there about to repair mast you have a good chance of hitting

[@LoonieToque]

You're still most likely better off with a regular cannonball (you can aim it, it's far more likely to kill a pirate, and can knock them around/off repair). If you're double-dipping and trying to get a lucky mast hit and a hull hit at the same time there's technically a potential benefit, but you're gambling for sure

[@onex0064]

Great video, im gonna tell my Cannon main to stop using them hhehehehe

[@GUDG161]

Crimanlly underrated channel

[@phoenixbender5698]

With how I play scattershot is great because is takes 4 planks away from the enemy

[@LoonieToque]

I congratulate you on your perfect luck (however most people don't run out of supplies in the 2024 Sea of Thieves economy 😅)

[@pup1030]

using scattershots for when you're high waved never crossed my mind, that's some use for them rather than just doing nothing while waiting for the waves to calm down

[@LoonieToque]

It's pretty much the _only_ way I'm using them now 😅 which is definitely a value-add, if extremely situational

[@76Boomer]

Scattershot is good to waste enemy resources

[@vamperic]

I never use it on sloops it's good for briges and gals though better for gals

[@LoonieToque]

Did you see the galleon fight at 7:07 and the conclusion? While you can maybe land more hits than against a sloop, it's still very hard to do meaningful damage

[@TZ57]

I still dont completely agree with the % damage, i think we should just call em tier 1-5

[@LoonieToque]

Give me a time machine and I'll go make it happen 🫡 it's just the most accurate way to explain to *everyone* at the moment without confusion, even if it's a bit verbose

[@cammiescorner]

i used scattershot recently in hourglass, solely for the commendation. some how, some way, i sank the first person i went up against. i dont know why they werent bucketing or repairing when they kept trying to board me, but they sank second guy got me though, and third guy it was... weirdly even between us until i got my commendation and switched to regular cannon balls, at which point they went down quickly