Scenes From A Slow Civil War | Jeff Sharlet | TMR

Sam and Emma host Jeff Sharlet, professor of English at Dartmouth College, to discuss his recent book The Undertow: Scenes From a Slow Civil War.
Jeff Sharlet dives right into how his work reviews the United States’ failing relationship with fascism, and how he views his own relationship to it, as a long-time journalist covering the Right Wing, walking through the complete refusal to even use the term “fascist” to describe the right until Trump’s rise to power, and how his ascendency saw a marked shift of Christian Nationalism towards a cult of personality. After a brief definition of fascism, Jeff, Sam, and Emma parse through what role the cult of personality plays in fascism, and how the Christian Theocrats see Trump as more of an avatar, a tool of god to unite the right, before stepping back to look at the evolution of fascism over the last 80 years, looking at the global rise of fascism today, and its continued connection to cultures of aggrievement. Next, Sharlet looks to the 2020 election and end of Trump’s reign as a particular spark under the far-right, igniting their theocratic attacks on abortion and trans people, also touching on how the far right, and everyone else, view this “slow civil war.” Wrapping up, they explore the concept of the “rabbit hole” of the far right, the absurdity of appealing to a politics of irrationalism with rationalism, and why the strongest measure in the fight against fascism is stepping up and building beautiful things that people want to be a part of.
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[@betterthanrae8137]

"a cult of innocence that thrives on death" i like that description. its perfect

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

Gaslighting, aka Grooming. Accusation in a mirror (AiM), mirror politics, mirror propaganda, mirror image propaganda, or mirror argument is a hate-speech incitement technique where one falsely attributes to one's adversaries the intentions that one has for oneself and/or the actions that one is in the process of enacting. During the 1994 Rwandan genocide, accusation in a mirror was used by the Hutus, along with other propaganda techniques, to incite the genocide in 1999. A straw man fallacy is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man". The fallacy of begging the question occurs when an argument's premises assume the truth of the conclusion, instead of supporting it. In other words, you assume without proof the stand/position, or a significant part of the stand, that is in question. Begging the question is also called arguing in a circle. Argument from incredulity, also known as argument from personal incredulity, *appeal to common sense* or the *_Divine fallacy_* (that is, pretending to be Omniscient, and able to know things you cannot know) is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition must be false because it contradicts one's personal expectations or beliefs, or is difficult to imagine, as if your beliefs have any empirical or tangible values The Gish gallop /ˈɡɪʃ ˈɡæləp/ is a rhetorical technique in which a person in a debate attempts to overwhelm their opponent by providing an excessive number of arguments with no regard for the accuracy or strength of those arguments. Gish galloping prioritizes the quantity of the galloper's arguments at the expense of their quality. Bullshivic (Bolshevik, bull, civic-minded, demagogue), someone who gains political power by appealing to people's emotion's instincts, & prejudices in a way that is considered manipulative & myopic; someone who incessantly reiterates the same petty complaints, until they are taken seriously. There are citizens with valid complaints & issues, but invariably the meeting will have to deal with some Bullshivic & his personal gripe of "supreme importance". *Gaslighting is a psychological term used to describe* the process of *grooming* someone into believing that they are losing it or going crazy. *Gaslighting a child is perhaps the most egregious form of child abuse.* Gaslighting is a common form of emotional/psychological abuse and can be used as a tactic in *grooming* children for abuse. The term comes from Gaslight (1944) a movie where the technique is used by the characters. *Gaslighting is sometimes also called “crazy making”.* *In the context of child sexual abuse (CSA) the **_gaslighting_** is often used to convince the victim all the abusive behaviours are fine, normal and an expression of “love”. It is used to ensure the victim doesn’t speak out about it and doesn’t fight back. It can also be used in concert with other **_grooming_** tactics like fear and isolation.* *Trivializing: The victim’s feels are made to feel like they don’t matter, are **_unfounded_** or they are weak for thinking so.* *Countering: This is quintessential gaslighting. * They _directly counter the memories and perceptions of the victim._ *Repetitive Questions: The abusive partner makes the victim doubt what they think or feel by asking the same question multiple times.* Questions are asked so many times the victim doubts their own answers. *Diverting: The abuser diverts the subject and puts the blame into outside circumstances.* "What Others Say": The abuser tells the victim what other people "think" about the victim, the abuser and/or the situation on whole. Literally what all Right Wing Fascist talking points are doing, making claims and arguments, asking questions that all rely on an unproven premise, which stumps the opponent because it's a logical fallacy. They then pretend to declare victory, knowing full well their crimes because the innocent don't know to lie. This is their entire toolkit, it's all reverse psychology, and Psychological warfare, perfected in Palestine, exported to the West. Republicans are Authoritarian Communists, America is a People's Democratic Republic with a Constitution, just like China, Iran, N Korea, and the USSR. All of which have _less_ inequality. Patriotism and Communism are Synonyms, they just Orwelled us into believing we were Capitalists, when in fact it's the rich leeching off the working class. This is why we must call for Direct Digital Democracy without parties or politicians. Citizen initiated referendums with thresholds and a social contract means Communities can vote their own laws. As well as a Public Authority to audit police and prosecute bad actors in our own courts. Thorium energy renders their global energy monopoly obsolete

[@junebrilly5302]

​@@Uncanny_MountainBRAVO!!!

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

@@junebrilly5302 thank you

[@nycartist3421]

This guy is IT! Very important interview. Good job Sam.

[@dmcrtsrule1744]

Amazing

[@abaddon4823]

He’s it with a SH before IT

[@nycartist3421]

@@abaddon4823 you need to zip it, buddy..

[@NightMystique13]

Being over 50 doesn’t automatically make one more conservative. Having a closed mind does, though.

[@FilthyMcFly1983]

Absolutely!

[@Blowfeld20k]

I am almost 60 and an ex Militant Tendency ('merican lefties look it up) comrade over here in the UK. I approve this message :P

[@CarterDavis-nu6ey]

Life-experience and the reality of the world causes abandonment of idealism you had in youth, loss of youthful naivite’. You become more realist, more pragmatic, more wise.

[@Knight-Bishop]

​@@CarterDavis-nu6ey Yeah, it's extremely pragmatic to listen to people who could pay for college, buy a house, and start a family on what was minimum wage 30+ years ago, especially when the issue is sold as you just being entitled and lazy. 😂

[@davidroberts1689]

@@CarterDavis-nu6ey Way more pragmatic to listen to MTG and other fascists. sarcasm/off

[@joshmccollen700]

Faithful people making excuses for Trump as an "imperfect" but righteous person is terrifically cynical. And the same people wanting a civil war are the same people who a year ago were complaining they couldn't get their fries fast enough.

[@justsayin1756]

It’s another term for a strongman or a substitute carrying out the same agenda - fascism

[@lucindabreeding]

The Christians who support Trump are less invested in the gospel story and more invested in the ancient Jewish/Mesopotamian culture of birthright male headship. They hew to the presumption that if you're born male, your birthright is dominion over all women, all children, lower-status men and control of wealth and property. This is why they're panicked about LGBTQIA folks and are in a blind terror over transwomen. If people see that people can transition, or have healthy same-sex relationships (esp if they have children) they are threatening their foundational myth that men need to be in charge of it all or it all falls apart. This is also why you won't hear any of these folks talk about Jesus being an unmarried, childless rabbi. Or how Paul said that marriage is for chumps who can't keep it in their robes.

[@teresaamanfu7408]

One thing I’ve noticed about the fundamentalists that I know is that they seem to be very narcissistic. They need to feel special and superior.

[@kafka35]

good guest. this is not a sprint it's a marathon, for activists who've been at this for awhile. it's a constant battle with yourself and keeping the movements alive, to not just give up because it would be so easy. but there are so many people who would be harmed if fascism won. I became an activist at age 39 and I'm now a socialist at age 50+ doing my best to keep fighting for those who can't.

[@carolinemaybe]

Same. As the fascists have self radicalised I’ve become more LW radical. I’m much older and tired of fighting the same fight over and over yet I’m still at it. We have no choice. I won’t give into the undertow.

[@junebrilly5302]

Applause! Same

[@Lord_Aghast]

I really admire Jeff as a journalist. The first time I heard of him was back in 08. Someone on a cult forum I frequented shared a link to the prologue and first chapter of The Family. I hoped on the Amazon presale and scooped up a hardcover copy. A few months later it arrived and I dived right in. For a week I sat in my cool basement hiding away from the repressive heat, enjoying this book with a nice serving of orange pekoe tea. I absolutely loved the book ❤ It’s a pleasant surprise to see Jeff on The Majority Report. There’s a lot of connections and shared circles between the people talked about in The Family and the overall media landscape that we see today, in fact they never really went anywhere, they’ve always been here juicing culture war issues. The high halls of conservative power have long been patient with their goals, they want a traditionalist society built on the backbone of Christian morality and the church. Their stated goals are to push back against any kind of popular secular reform and really any form of modern culture or tradition that doesn’t line up with the Bible. We as leftists need to keep an eye on this type of stuff and not always wear our kids gloves. These people are powerful and pursue their goals with a deadly seriousness. Now is the time for Americans to stand up for what’s decent and humane and put a spot light on these powerful cultural, financial, and intellectual networks and players.

[@shodan6401]

That's why the driver of Fascism isn't sudden change, it's economic. And the lack of wage increases and the phenomenal wealth gap, with most living paycheck to paycheck and no discernable savings, and the failure of Democrats to protect the middle class - that's the driver of Fascism.

[@teebalicious]

Fantastic writer, and another banger book. Great interview.

[@lizannewhitlow1085]

Jeff is so good at what he does. Thank you.

[@ethicalphytophage]

Great discussion. Sharlet offers a much needed perspective, and I hope more of us heed his wake up call. Honestly, I don't want to think about this information. It's scary, and Canada is being influenced by fascist rhetoric more than we wish it were. In any case, thank you for the insights MR crew and guest.

[@Radjhitoocool]

I don’t get why he calls it Trump ism. I think calling it American fascism highlights that it’s just fascism unique to America I think focusing on Trump kind of dilutes how America has often flirted with fascism throughout history

[@waterandafter]

​@@Historia.Magistra.Vitae. Sure there is.

[@Radjhitoocool]

@@Historia.Magistra.Vitae. there was a huge American nazi movement and hitler was inspired by our Jim Crow laws

[@Historia.Magistra.Vitae.]

@@waterandafter : Nope. Fasci sm has not been a thing since the W W2. Stop using words that you do not understand.

[@Historia.Magistra.Vitae.]

@@Radjhitoocool _"there was a huge American na zi movement and hitl er was inspired by our Jim Cr ow laws"_ Hit ler had nothing to do with your country and your laws. I dont' doubt that you had some N azi sympathizers back in the day, however it's not really a thing anymore.

[@waterandafter]

@@Historia.Magistra.Vitae. Fascism is not only a Nazi party thing. Tell that to the Italian fascists that were never Nazis. And fascism isn't only a right-wing ideal. Communist countries are very much fascistic. America has its own brand of fascism weaving it's way up our government and it's called Christo-Facsism.

[@mkkrupp2462]

If the completely undemocratic Electoral College was abolished, then there would be no need for these discussions. The US would be a vastly better place.

[@blackplague-x3y]

I once asked myself, "Were the Nazis happy?" Did they experience joy and spiritual renewal?! And the I believe the disgusting answer is "Yes".

[@dominiquefortin5345]

We have a misunderstanding of the timeline of social mouvement. Like an underwater earthquake provokes a tsunami a few hours later. The wave grows and grows until it hits the shores. And if you don’t take the energy away from the wave, it destroys everything on the shores.

[@CarterDavis-nu6ey]

Sativa or Indica?

[@dominiquefortin5345]

@@CarterDavis-nu6ey Neither, life.

[@desertfoxmj7148]

Brilliant. the Nazis were not the majority either and i have a similar first hand story of my own.

[@agny369]

This guy is saying some things I’ve been shouting at people about how to deal with these idiots. Hint : it’s not fighting intellectual battles with people who aren’t interesting in hearing them , on twitter.

[@carolinemaybe]

I used to think it was roaring last roars of the dying of the dinosaurs but that was before. I see the rise of young fascists. There is a huge swell of them.

[@peterbarber3659]

Excellent discussion

[@alexalower7130]

Fascinating and very informative. Great interview

[@Theomite]

I've long said that Fascism is a psychological phenomenon rather than an political one. It has manifested in countries with no real connection/history of Nazism and is heavily defined by behavior that emerges organically from a certain agglomeration of personalities. Sharlet's accusation of secular naivete hits the nail on the head about Progressive/Secular ignorance about the nature of what they're up against.

[@randallsmith5631]

Scene's from Oklahoma City. They cray-cray and packing heat.

[@Ianpact]

Thank you, Jeff.

[@Jamiecbailey]

Another great interview.

[@paulheydarian1281]

A slow civil war sounds awesome -!!! Like a slow cooked stew, it's bound to be full of rich flavour. In this case a rich toxic brew filled with angst, fear, despair & pessimism.

[@shaftomite007]

😂😂😂😂 thanks for that... I needed it

[@bobjary9382]

Careful , youre almost sounding like a ' bring it on ' type .

[@gnomechomsky2524]

Don’t forget the slow cooked stench of Tim Pool’s sweaty beanie

[@MarkbyMarkAFosterPhD]

When I think of Harry Belafonte, I think of his wonderful week hosting the Tonight Show.

[@marcusaurelius49]

30:32 this comment makes the recent actions of Senator Tubberville all the more important to understand. By preventing the filling of many high ranking roles in the military, the MAGAts are undermining the strength of the military with purpose, elevating the sympathetic commanders in the ranks to higher and higher import.

[@DrAnarchy69]

I’m an atheist Jewish Anarchist, lovely to see us getting rep!

[@Djaj2000]

Businesses that discriminate against LGBT people should be reported to the IRS for suspended tax fraud.

[@blondiegreeneyes4802]

I'm almost 60 and I'm a radicalized leftist. I've always been very liberal. But then Bernie came along. I voted for Bernie in the primaries, but then voted for Clinton and Biden in the GE. I'm pretty healthy and have lots more to give and, I'm passionate.

[@errrkt]

yes, they are absolutely putting together lists of us >=|

[@SuperTonyony]

I propose a government-funded population swap, so that all fascists can move to the old Confederacy and all non-fascists can move to the real USA, and then we can get a DIVORCE. No trade, no communication, no interaction of any kind until the fascists give up on fascism and ask (politely and humbly) to come home.

[@joeblow3990]

Fascism cannot be contained. It is not possible to negotiate PEACE AGREEMENTS with fascists. You do not seem to understand the nature of fascism. Fascism is a death cult. Fascism is the natural stage of capitalism in DECAY.

[@woogieification]

Too many damn ads, Sam. I can't walk across the room w/o having to walk back to turn them off!!

[@christophermckinney3924]

It’s not about change as much as the rapidity of change. There is no time to adjust to change before another one is taking place.

[@blasphimus]

There's plenty of time to adjust to change. I grew up learning cursive, then typing, then coding, then twitter, Facebook, bbs, IRC chart, torrent, cryptography, and IT skills in 4 years. That was middle school. By high school those were obsolete. The problem is that the older generation aren't used to change. Trans people were mainstrea back in the 80's and 90's, which was largely before my time. They were always put in as jokes but they were always there. They were everywhere on 4chan back when people were arguing if it was gay to find trans women attractive. That's was early 2000's and now it's a big issue 40 years later for some reason. The old people are not used to change. Now we are on the cusp of a small AI revolution, and a lot of old people think we need a capitalist to fix the problems of corporate greed. They are so lost in the times that they will never catch up.

[@GlitzPixie]

The change is glacially slow. If it feels too fast, maybe you're the one who needs to change.

[@joshualavender]

@@blasphimus Your age is telling about why you have the perspective you have on the rapidity of change and people's ability to adjust to it. You've come up in a time when a lot is changing fast. I don't think you appreciate just how much and how fast. This rate of change looks normal to you, but that doesn't mean it is -- it certainly isn't for many people older than you (and not that much older, either). This is what *you* can manage to adjust to without a monumental shift in perspective and ideas. Even open-minded people grow more set in their ways as they age. And we all tend to see what things were like and the speed at which they changed in our youth -- childhood, teenage years, early adulthood -- as a default from which society is always departing. I'm not saying one's "default" is right, just that it's always there for us and colors our thinking. And I may be wrong, but I'd bet, given the educational history you described, you grew up largely on the urban side of the urban/rural divide. If so, you probably don't appreciate just how slowly things change for people in places with a slow pace of life to begin with.

[@joshualavender]

Mr. McKinney, you're making a savvy point about human nature, and it's a pity some people are responding glibly, e.g. "if it feels too fast, maybe you're the one who needs to change." Familiarity breeds comfort. People need time to acclimate to one idea before they'll accept the next idea in order. How great a change a person is willing to accept depends on their experience -- which changes they've already accepted, how well those changes prepared them for this one, what rate of change they're used to. If one sees injustice in the world, it's natural to want justice now, not tomorrow, next week, or next year. But it's important to think about who we're leaving in the dust and how far behind those people feel they're getting, because whether we like it or not, we're stuck with those people -- they're part of society too, they won't magically disappear or give up. We have to bring them along, and this means giving them time to acclimate to change even when there's a pressing need for change to happen quickly. The alternative is encouraging them to radicalize into violent reactionary politics. The question we must ask ourselves is, "Do we want the changes we achieve to last? Or do we want them torn down -- and our whole system torn down -- by reactionaries who weren't given a chance to adapt to them?"

[@antifazisbonifaz6964]

Second time i see it. It really pays your time's worth

[@CrowGigantor48]

Anyone enjoying this interview should check in on Knowledge Fight's 2 episodes with Jeff Sharlet too. Very good conversation there.

[@bk83082]

Super interesting stuff. I'm not crazy about equating climate change or pandemic denial with atheism though.

[@bobjary9382]

That went by me ....its a bit strange if thats what was said I was gonna listen again anyway

[@bk83082]

@@bobjary9382 it may have been meant more metaphorically, but it seemed like it was presented as a direct comparison. It's possible I misinterpreted it too, but rolling coal to signal your disbelief in a scientific fact and eating forbidden meat on a day that god told you to fast... again, I'm not crazy about the choice.

[@bobjary9382]

@@bk83082 haha ...yeah ' take that god ! ' ...bites on a bacon sandwich

[@GHOSTPLANEtable]

He could pass for Dave Rubin over the phone

[@GS-kj5pc]

Except his words have meaning

[@rayflyers]

IDEAS

[@DannyD1199]

It's hilarious that Tim Pool calls this a "comedy show" lol.

[@shaneswiss]

He has a gross misunderstanding of the MRA movement. To him misogyny just means they say something he doesn’t like.

[@johnst3296]

Nuclear war is sounding better everyday. Glad I live near a primary target.

[@ajanislaughter1092]

Rolling Coal: antisocial emotionally infantile expression of cognitive dissonance?

[@billdee814]

You can't try to make everything fair for all people some will always be left vulnerable. We actually are still living on the savanna there are some that are lions and will rule others while others run with the herds. Its natural and normal to have a country in flux with different radical beliefs that is what makes the country interesting. I don't want everyone to have the same political mind set. Radical conservative, or liberals, leftists they are all equally American and needed.

[@zeradordeyoutube8567]

Who is that Katherine author the guy mentions?

[@joeblow3990]

I find Sam Seder exasperating. Seder has interesting guests but he (Seder) has these ETERNAL introductions in which he specializes in talking a lot without saying anything.

[@robertkaminski9315]

LET's GO BIDEN!!! VOTE BLUE 2024!!

[@gamer24d]

What about green

[@joeblow3990]

Barack Obama PAVED THE WAY for the Trump electoral win in 2016. Obama's disastrous presidency paved the way for a racist moron called Trump winning the 2016 elections. Corporate Democrats like Biden are part of the problem. How bad, how weak can the Democrats get? Now they can barely win against the fascists led by Trump. Had it not been for Trump's SPECTACULAR DISPLAY OF INCOMPETENCE at managing the COVID emergency, Trump would be President today. So Biden is President not because of his dynamism or ability to communicate a vision of a better country. Biden is President because people are afraid of Trump and his fascist cohorts.

[@bobjary9382]

Trump being anti gun .... See, when he first got in I actually thought he had the momemtum and disregard for anyone he wanted to disregard ...I actually thought if anyone could make a serious move against the gun lobby it would be Trump .

[@anti-christ.666]

His explanation of fascism is no different than Socialism. All Socialist governments are led by a cult of personality. personality

[@buckchile614]

Conservatives now want to legally allow weed in the military. I'm not against it, but won't it make it more woke?

[@areuarealman7269]

F that I wasn't let in cuz of drug use apparently....bs it's all bs just lie steal rape pillage do whatever too get too the top by any means allowing thru lies and posturing...I'm being sarcastic utube .

[@scoot4348]

Wait what? They couldn't do that anyway until it's decriminalized federally. I smoked plenty of weed in the Army and hash in W. Germany.

[@Gotsyn]

Way better analysis of the state of fascism in the US than Matt Christman's

[@Happyisboss]

buy a gun.

[@justsayin1756]

He’s a s to mercatriod!😮

[@publicdomain1103]

Image of gawd is a tyrant after all.

[@abaddon4823]

What nonsense these snowflakes are trying to talk about

[@TheBlazersfan22]

Says the snowflake

[@jamesmcelroy5830]

Is facism a real form of government like communism is a real form of government with mechanisms and ideology etc etc etc. Or is facism just a slur word people use against right wing people? Because I hear the word every day but I still don’t know what fascim is. How does a facist government operate? The mechanisms I mean.

[@benfrank8649]

I think it is difficult to define but I’ll try my best. Economically fascism is a corporate state, the government and the major businesses are one and the same. Also fascism relies on a central figurehead of state power. Every facet of society, media, education, religion etc exist to uphold the state. There’s also an obsession with a people rising to greatness and domination of other countries.

[@jamesmcelroy5830]

@@benfrank8649 So a government and corporate merger with a figure head. I think we have that now but with a rotating figure head and permanent bureaucracy. No? Thanks for responding.

[@Murchasm]

@@jamesmcelroy5830 You are not wrong, no. For me, I think that ties into the point about meeting irrational beliefs with rational arguments. While "the left" was busy using rhetorical logic to keep getting re-elected, Corporations/Billionaires and Christian Nationalists were joining together into a consolidated movement to produce real action through minority rule. Along comes a leader with Cult of Personality and oops, all fascists.

[@Mister_Terrific806]

​@@jamesmcelroy5830 *"How does a fascist government operate"* I would say based on historical examples, it would be a government that's firmly entrenched in nationalism, with the implementation of policies specific to the benefit of its nationalist ideologies. So if we look at Hitler, we can see he looted and plundered resources to implement a welfare state that handed out benefits specific to his nationalist base. Under Trump, it would be draconian and abusive immigration policies that ignored International asylum laws by separating families and holding asylum seekers in internment camps. The nationalist base believes these policies will benefit them by proxy of more jobs and economic resources now being available for them. This is a simplified explanation as it doesn't go into the psychology that fuels this type of behavior.

[@jamesmcelroy5830]

@@taranullius9221 I was being literal when I thanked benfrank for responding to my question. And as for me being poorly educated? Yes, you are correct, I was poorly educated. I’m a 9th grade dropout who got his GED in the New York State prison system. You thinking I was trying to “own” benfrank says more about you than me. Frankly I don’t even know what the own would be. How did I own him? All I did was ask for a definition of fascism. I’ve asked the same question about communism and people were quick to define it. Fascism though? I can never get a straight answer. It’s always different.

[@mauscuba]

If you are not getting hit by the stones thrown at the people you say you support, you're not standing close enough...

[@tugboat6940]

Dude just said we wouldn't have had a civil rights novement without Harry Belafonte...

[@tugboat6940]

It would help the tans movement if ya'll would ease up in certain areas. For example, trans people calling anyone who played the Harry Potter game a bigot only hurt the trans movement.

[@lucianomezzetta4332]

The ultra inarticulate Seder outdoes himself in being an air head.

[@scoot4348]

There's no such thing as Satan by the way. Smooth brained Christian fundamentalists though are real.

[@nerag7459]

Thats your best shot huh? Ignored.

[@NYdr]

Jeff Sharlet is a truthteller.The Undertow was as wonderful as all of his other works. I can listen to him on repeat and am always inspired to do more.

[@agny369]

Yeah this was a good listen I caught a clip and then watched the whole thing and got the book. I’ve been noticing this and connecting the dots myself , no idea what I can do with the information I’ve collected but I like how he makes the point that I’ve been trying to make in my small circle of influence about these social media fights. The point I’ve been making is that bringing intellectual arguments to purposefully unintellectual groups who’s sole intent is to kill the morale to fight against them, is counter productive. In order to beat this back , people need to clear their heads, put down the memes and hours lost to scrolling social media and use our best tools in more efficient ways , and by best tools I mean our brains and moral convictions that combine to think creatively and outside the institutional confines that we typically do.

[@shaftomite007]

Fucking LOVE this guy... This is just about the most important topic in our country today. This and the need for a New Fairness Doctrine and overturning Citizens United

[@CarterDavis-nu6ey]

Most important topic today IMO is the rapid cultural decline. Record fatherlessness, record single-motherhood, record drug addiction, record youth-suicide, record low marriage-rate, increasingly vulgar and profane culture, declining education and declining IQ.

[@scoot4348]

​@@CarterDavis-nu6eyLow IQ. Christian homeschooling. Much of what you're mentioning is from low wages and corrupt corporations. The most uneducated and unintelligent are obviously conservatives.

[@nycartist3421]

Yes, shastomite007... very well said.

[@willywonka7812]

​@@CarterDavis-nu6eywow that's a lot of dissolute talking points. It's easy to recognise a fascist when they all talk like you

[@michaelthomas229]

@@willywonka7812that’s vice versa to Jo’s we got to try to meet in the middle instead of all this devision

[@VinciGlassArt]

17:43 What are these people grieving though? Earnest question. I read Undertow. Beautiful and devastating frankly. What I take from it(and what I have seen on a few trips across the country on my own) is that the Trumpocene is reactionary grief. These people have literally turned to fantasy to...do what? But it seems clear that they've been driven out of their freaking minds by something and are now throwing it back at the world. Their irrationality is grief and its expression is vengeance(in Fascism). Its breathtaking and sad. But sad to the Nth. Sad across the whole sky and washing everything beneath it. I still don't understand.

[@Brandonsantacruz]

Trading their Father for a furor, that’s spot on.

[@carolinemaybe]

I encourage everyone to both read his book and watch and listen to every interview with Jeff.

[@lauriecraw5033]

Best analysis of the rightward shift I've heard.

[@michaelfrancis8599]

Best interview in a longtime. Thanks

[@Neddoest]

What a great interview, definitely getting this book

[@Ian_sothejokeworks]

YES!! We CANNOT reason with them. We have to DEFEAT them.

[@gingerhickerson5792]

Here in Florida they were working on all these bills even the year prior it just took time for them to all get passed and signed into legislature and therefore it looks like it all happened after 2022, but it was in the works even before

[@carolinemaybe]

There is no going back, we can’t and some don’t want to. They enjoy the violence in either word or deed.

[@winder6]

. Remember Pat Roberts blaming hurricanes on the sins of the people whare the hurricanes hit. This is probably still happening .

[@billybigwig1154]

Great interview. Love the show. Left is best.

[@Writkin]

Great interview other than “I’ve been hearing that since I was xxxx” is a nonsense dismissal of things. Shit takes time. None of us are the main character.

[@Writkin]

@@pranays I guess if you think 50 years is any length of time I suggest learning anything, literally anything, about the history of the universe.

[@RIP_Greedo]

I read this book recently and while I agree with most of what Sharlet is trying to say, the way he presents it is rather self-defeating. He is writing about very real problems, very dark and disturbed people, very real trends, but he writes in this histrionic, wimpy voice that makes him sound like Chicken Little. For instance, he observes how one of his subjects drives a black Jeep Wrangler and he writes that this vehicle looks fit for a death squad! Brother, go to any parking lot in the country and you'll find a dozen of these, usually driven by the lady working the register. He seems to have contempt for his subjects, which is understandable because they sound like real jerks and morons, but the effect is that he sounds like a frightened complainer instead of a sharp analyst.

[@genuinefreewilly5706]

As a Canadian all I really serious know is 60 years of media and print, American media and history in all its forms, all the tech, all things. I bought everything the American media flogged. ie Mary Anne from Gilligans Island. Might have be different if I grew up in Quebec Donald Trump was an invention of television media , we all watched him 'reality TV' Trump was an early adopter and actor of that shtick. They even created an annoying genre of production music. Everyone learned to hate or love Gary Busey and saw him shamed and stomped on. It was twisted and darkly humerous. Trump is an invention of American media as were other politicians and presidents Has nothing to do with facism. Its way worse American scholars study everything except themselves

[@jamesstaplesv]

"Annointing" ugh spirit of elijah uurrrrp!!!

[@scofah]

Please go to your local/county Democratic Party headquarters and offer your time, energy, friendship, enthusiasm, encouragement, skills, talents, and support to help Democrats win elections. Thank you.

[@jackiecamp7099]

Both party's are involved. Every high profile democrat has participated in "the family". The Clinton's, the Obama's, the Carter's they're all in. It's time to admit that Both party's are corrupt, and the family might just be the reason for it. We no longer have 2 party's in America, we have a uni-party

[@justinpayne3308]

Clearly, this man has never seen Red Dawn.

[@henryburby6077]

Wont the defenderd need ar15s as well?

[@fieldlab4]

Civil wars generally can't escalate in superpower nations with stable economies and a well established military and police. I'm not saying those things are good and I'm not trying to be dismissive of insurrectionist Trumpism, just trying to be realistic.

[@fieldlab4]

And if a large militia force on the ground starts an open war, you can bet they will send in tanks, F-16's and helicopters. Militia people are keenly aware of that and that's why they are trying to infiltrate the military. They even did that in Waco for a lot fewer reasons

[@christinet6336]

I hope you’re right. 😢

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

Not if the power structures are infiltrated

[@fieldlab4]

It's cynical to say you can't convince people with effective and imaginative counter narratives. Probably won't happen on social media, but in person, maybe your approach is the problem. Start by rejecting political labels (teams) and resetting through teaching basic history. Start 500 years ago and work forward. Keep it progressive without the label, but also non biased. It's basic deprogramming. It takes weeks. Personal engagement has a long history of being highly effective.

[@fieldlab4]

You have to know how to speak in the language of who you are engaging. Empathize with how they got there if not actual beliefs.

[@AustinsMind]

So im listening in the background and i really thought this was Dave Rubin, I mean none of the rhetoric matched for him but the voice man! Lol

[@kingsfan2099]

The fact that base commanders are qanon is a problem.

[@gailthomas115]

All the "um, um um" and "the the the" stammering is so distracting. Sam should take a couple speech lessons. He's a professional speaker! He needs to polish it up a bit.

[@vivahernando1]

He’s not going to at this point so you’ll just have to suck it up or no longer watch

[@nycartist3421]

ummmm, not really. Sam is fine. Thanks anyway.

[@CarterDavis-nu6ey]

Obama has the same affect. Ben Shapiro as well. Sean Hannity does “up-talking”. Elizabeth Warren and Nancy Pelosi have a speech-affect where they sound as if they are in an emotional state, as if about to cry. Warren in particular.

[@doctorbigsmiles]

Sam better hurry up with the speech classes before he retires! Not much time left, time to be PrOfEsSiOnaL

[@Mikemoto1]

Yes, because if you want to know political trends, you should rely on an English professor.

[@finnfan33]

Who drove all over the country interviewing people.

[@scoot4348]

You follow Crowder so sit down and take notes you'll learn something.

[@nerag7459]

You should listen to crowder who uh... is... professionally butthurt because his wife divorced him?

[@tugboat6940]

Dude just said we wouldn't have had a civil rights novement without Harry Belafonte...