Scenes That Keep Us Up At Night... | "HOLD THE DOOR" Analysis (Game of Thrones, Arcane)

#Hodor #Jinx #HBO
Hodor’s final scene is more than horrifying, it’s more than shocking, more than tragic -- there’s something ELSE at play here. These scenes are rare, but there’s a pattern to them, with its own set of techniques and methods. The audience expects a straightforward scene of Bran escaping from the White Walkers, and what they get is the culmination of an entire character’s life. In Arcane, Powder also gets a scene like this in episode 3. We expect this act’s tragedy to consist of the killing of her family, but we get a scene instead of Powder’s glee at her first invention ever to work. It feels like it comes out of nowhere, it doesn’t compute, and what follows is a scene that’s more than shocking, more than horrifying, more than simply sad. These scenes stick with us and become some of the most talked about scenes in their stories, making them a topic worth exploring.
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0:00 - What is a cursed scene?
1:33 - Rule #1
2:27 - …
6:34 - Rule #2
7:30 - Rule #3
8:01 - Rule #4
9:23 - Rule #5 (most important)
11:19 - Rule #6 & unity
12:19 - jojo rabbit SPOILERS
12:38 - end of spoilers + takeaway

[@brandonzhang5808]

ah yes, watching someone have a mental breakdown that curses the rest of their lives. if body horror is uncanny distortion of the body, then these sorts of scenes might be called soul horror

[@purpleghost106]

I think Soul Horror is a *much* better term for it, because "cursed scenes" is actually already taken by things you either can't unsee or existensial horror. I've heard things like accidentally stumbling on actual photos of death like beheadings or dead war victims to be described as 'cursed images' and for me 'cursed scenes' just sounds like the video equiv of that. But for me Soul Horror sounds both as poetic and impactful as these scenes seem to be.

[@Crystalitar]

I will use this term from now on

[@chakibchemso]

Jinxes* the rest of their lives

[@reckerjak3]

Re zero does this well

[@princembat]

this summarizes it so damn well, yeah. a moment that distorts the mind forever in a terrifying way.

[@lolatubbins3598]

I feel like Powder's reaction to her monkey bomb made sense for Powder as well as Jinx. She just wanted to be useful and contribute to the team after being shunned by them. When it works, she's proud because it means her goals were accomplished. She's just woefully unaware of the actual consequences until it's too late.

[@Lauren-sb4xe]

The black and white thinking of it makes sense developmently too. Powder is a young child in a stressful situation. For her, monkey bomb working = saving the day. She didn't have the cognitive capability in that moment to think through the possible consequences of the bomb going off at close range to her family, so she viewed it as a good thing. When Powder saw Vi, she wanted praise for saving the day. Instead, she found out she killed her brothers and contributed towards Vander's death. It's so much to process in that moment for such a young child, it's not surprising how she reacts after finding out. What's most jarring for me about this scene (especially as someone who knew literally nothing about LoL or Jinx going in) is how the audience is shown all these horrifying moments, is with Vi in the middle of a horrifying moment, and all of a sudden Powder runs in all happy.

[@mazeknox]

I was snot-crying the first time i saw that scene..now im just emotionally numb with suspiciously wet eyes...

[@perfredelius]

Yes I feel that her reaction makes a lot of sense. (Spoliers!) I think they build up to her transformation really well. They show in her previous tantrum that her self image is completely unable to cope with the idea of not being useful to the group. The monumental shock of the situation and her responsibility for it makes it very convincing that she completely disassociates from her previous set of morals. She simply cannot live with the cognitive dissonance.

[@Sologeist_Arts]

I agree a lot of what makes these scenes/acts so great is that they do make sense by the end with all the information we’re provided. I believe a better way to put it in the video would be “the audience has confusion about something until the big reveal happens, adding the missing piece to justify a character’s actions”

[@lucyandecember2843]

@@Sologeist_Arts o.o

[@nemesis_saber89]

That Arcane scene is one of the most memorable scenes I’ve ever experienced. I don’t ever cry at movies or tv, but the performance by Powder’s voice actress is so heartbreaking. In addition to the shock of how a bunch of characters died, and how Powder comes in to try and get some affirmation or praise it just hurts. It brings a tear to my eye, although it stays in my eye where it belongs

[@eclairz9275]

That tear belongs wherever you'd like it to belong, friend.

[@Thewhiteandorange]

The analysis at 10:05 is way off. Powder's moment of pride is /before/ she realizes what happened. That entire scene is her going from proud to confused to sinking realization to horror, there is whole cognitive dissonance playing out on her face (which is an incredible feat of animation) - no lack of reactions whatsoever. Her lashing out at Vi absolutely makes sense - Vi is accusing her of killing their family (i.e. this wouldn't happen if you stayed behind), Powder's why-did-you-leave is an attempt to ease the mental pressure of this-is-all-my-fault. It's tragedy, not a premeditated act of chaos and murder. It's a situation created by Silco, and Vi is venting it out on a child. Immaturity meets vulnerability meets the darkness of the adult world. Brilliant show; very tightly written.

[@eternal7912]

It really is. That scene messed me up for like a week and still hits hard every time I watch it.

[@nemesis_saber89]

@@Thewhiteandorange Well, that’s the thing about analyzing these kinds of media. Both of these answers can be right at the same time. Just like the “But you changed too” video.

[@LilyShimizu]

@@Thewhiteandorange I agree, I didn’t catch the way Schnee described it before reading your comment but it’s definitely not a lack of reaction there, it’s a whole range of shifting thoughts and emotions and realizations. She doesn’t have any idea what actually happened inside the building she was just stoked her contraption finally worked and wash hoping she would finally get to celebrate an accomplishment. And it makes sense that she wouldn’t react to Vander laying on the ground because he was warped by the shimmer, so for all she knew it was just one of the baddies she took out, if she had even noticed him at all.

[@morganleanderblake678]

The Hodor scene for me was about existential horror. About the idea that the thing that breaks us could be the thing that we were trying to do right, that we were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. His entire life course was set by the moment of his death, a lot like a certain character in a certain horror series. It's existentially terrifying and sort of begs the question of determinism while asking it again.

[@leovk5779]

which character un which horror series? Put it under "spoilers" and a few lines later, if it is a spoiler, I assume that's why you didn't give the name ^^

[@morganleanderblake678]

@@leovk5779 SPOILERS . . . . . . . . . . . Nell in Hill House. Which is a fantastic series and the spoiler is super out there in the world, so I figured just being vague would be safe. Thanks for asking!

[@Chubbasaurus]

You just made that scene even more horrific for me. Bravo.

[@morganleanderblake678]

@@Chubbasaurus you're welcome I'm sorry?

[@daviddobarganes9115]

@@morganleanderblake678 That writer blows my mind too.

[@LilyShimizu]

Wow that comedy scene was an insane ride. Definitely was uncomfortable, but I was feeling later in that I couldn’t see any emotion in the top half of his face and I began to feel like maybe, just maybe, this was a bit after all, but I was still confused and unsure, and when his “crying” started becoming rhythmic and he then transitioned to the drums I felt an immense release of the discomfort that was building in my chest.

[@LuisSierra42]

Reminds me of Nathan Fillion's style

[@keila1402]

I actually was even more uncomfortable with his "crying" sound, looking at his serious face plus the public laughing I was dying inside

[@briancaban930]

I felt something similar, however the feeling I experienced with the two mentioned scenes is so radically different from the comedy scene, that I would not classify them as equal

[@OR1000N]

I completely lost it at the end, it’s just unavoidable. It’s so uncomfortable and dissonant that I had no choice but to explode.

[@Alex-fc8xn]

Yeah it made me so incredibly uncomfortable, because I'm autistic and adhd with social anxiety and it just felt like I was watching my child self try to make jokes, swing, and miss. It was a real example of my greatest fear throughout adolescence, being laughed at for being neurodivergent...and then it was all an act? How much of it actually WAS an act? It was too convincing, his body language throughout most of it was neurodivergent because I could read it intuitively unlike when I try to read the body language of someone who is neurotypical and have to put effort in. My question is...how much of that was a bit and how much of it was his real self, fears, and emotions being shown on display? Did he turn HIMSELF into the joke? Was it based on traumatic experiences from when he was younger? Did he know someone who was like that and just got incredibly good at copying that awkwardness and body language? What if he was forcing himself to live his greatest fear and turned it into a joke so that he could overcome it? Maybe he would actually cry like that and someone joked about it sounding like he was singing, so he used it as a bit? I don't know, but it hit way too close to home. I've always been unable to stand watching scenes in movies and shows where a character is acting weird and embarrassing themselves in public, especially when the actor is exaggerating their emotions and body language. Most of Jim Carrey's movies have moments where I feel like puking from the fight or flight sensation his mortifying moments trigger.

[@marianoromero6016]

That hodor scene was the scene that got me into writing. I was just so overwhelmed with emotions and couldn’t understand how somebody was capable of writing something like that, so I was like “guess I have to learn now”. Truly one of the best scenes I’ve watched in my entire life. Great video breaking it down

[@soirema]

This scene stayed in my brain as a core memory forever...

[@vice2versa]

Yeah i think that might have been one of the last few great scenes from game of thrones.

[@samisirusbis1008]

But this scene only work in english, if you watch it in another language it makes absolutely no sense

[@vice2versa]

@@samisirusbis1008 did you watch it in another language??? im pretty sure thats something they would have focused on making sense for other languages.

[@Adamant_Adam]

If that's the scene that got you into writing, you are bound to write magnificent things :)

[@aweetodd]

When I first watched the "hold the door" scene I thought Bran did the same thing to Danny's Dad. I remember characters talking about how the mad king just kept shouting "burn them all" repeatedly in his last moments and I figured that was Bran talking about the white walkers

[@Vincent-gl7bs]

This was a very common theory and I think it makes a lot of sense. Maybe if the books ever get finished that will be the case; we all know the showrunners screwed up the last few seasons by cutting a lot of things short and I think Bran definitely suffered from that more than most. They didn't seem to have any idea what to do with him after this scene

[@Carsa-is6vb]

I did the exact same thing. I remember watching the episode with a friend and immediately thinking that "Burn them all!" could have been Bran telling the Mad King (before it went mad) to burn them all in the past with his dragons. It would have made perfect sense and it would have been great, with hindsight they could have tied it with Daenerys going crazy hearing "Burn them all" in her dreams and when they kill Missandey she could have had a flashback to "Burn them all" and at least it would have helped the audience to understand a little more her descent into madness. Oh well, let's hope George will finish his books and do so in an acceptable manner, unlike the show.

[@KDbelieves]

@@Vincent-gl7bs Or it could be the previous raven.

[@applecat850]

I reckon G.R.R.Martin was planning that and much more with this idea of Bran influencing the past. There's also the multiple Brans of legend in the stories Old Nan told to Bran in the first book. The person who built the wall was called Bran the Builder, there was another person called Bran the Breaker who fought off one of the Night King's worst invasions. The Three-Eyed Raven himself hints that he is the same person as Bran

[@rafiweiss3915]

You’re one of the most deeply perceptive humans I’ve ever listened to - thanks again for these videos! They are always so fulfilling to watch!

[@nostalji75]

You should listen to more humans.^^ Schnee is obsessing over these shows and his theories are often far fetched to very unlikely. No offense. I still really enjoy his video very much! He is right about a lot of things, his ideas are very well presented and it is fun sharing his obesession .

[@starseeing]

​@@nostalji75 Is that why he's been acknowledged by one of the writers as almost always presenting worthwhile analysis?

[@nostalji75]

@@starseeing Being "worthwhile" doesnt contradict my comment at all. I think his vids are "worthwhile" too. My point was that Schnee appears overly perceptive due to him obsessing about these shows. If youd watch and dissect TV shows to analyse them like he does I am sure most humans would percieve a lot insights about them, too. If his insights on characters impress you this much, Id suggest to surround yourself with more intelligent people and not sheeps.

[@starseeing]

@@nostalji75 I would think that analysis characterized as "far fetched to very unlikely" wouldn't usually appear worthwhile, but your point is fair. Have any video essayists or bloggers come to your attention as executing media analysis on Schnee's level? I'm curious, since I can't think of any, despite knowing of quite a few of his ilk. CJ the X might come close.

[@nostalji75]

@@starseeing yeah my phrasing there sounds pretty harsh and unfair there in retrospective, but I clearified after that I do enjoy Schnees videos and insights. Depends on what your interested in. What kind and how hard of a nerd you are.^^ There are plenty of youtubers who bring academic standards to the plattform and have very informative insightful content. If we are talking about psychology and character from video shows like Arcane I can recommand "Georgia Dow". If you generally interested in reading people "the behavioural Arts" is an interesting channel which teaches good techniques. There is plenty of great content out there, including Schnees. If "far fetched to very unlikely" is no gamebreaker to you just soak up the entertainment from watching a "The Game Theorists" video.^^ Nothing wrong with that.

[@VulpesChama]

That's actually wrong. The "lack of reaction" in the scene where Powder killed her family makes sense. That's why this scene is so good. Powder is a kid that always failed with her bombs, a kid that wanted to always do nothing but help her sister and friends and felt useless because she couldn't. She came to help her sister and friends saving Vander. She's not there to cause chaos or even to kill. She's just there to contribute. And she succeeds. Her bombs work after so many attempts. She, for a second, felt not useless anymore. She's finally able to contribute. And *THEN* she gets Vi and realizes what happens and that her being successful only made things so much worse. That's the breaking madness. That's the very well done first step on this road for Jinx to exist as coping personality for Powder. It's not the lack of reaction, that makes Jinx Jinx, it's actually the opposite since Arcane. The overwhelming amount of emotions Powder is able to deal with. Never forget, Powder is Jinx and Jinx is Powder. There's actually no difference between those two. She's not changing her personality. She's dealing with a heavy load of emotions. She had a moment of pride in which she wanted nothing but see Vander saved, Vi proud of her and her friends finally acknowledging she's not a Jinx, she's helpful. She achieved worse than the opposite. Remember, she's a kid. Arcanes writers did their homework on this. What happens on a psychological level to Powder is not far fetched.

[@PastelGrandpa]

I could not agree with you more. I was honestly a little confused at the video’s “Powder has no reaction to what she did” argument Like… We saw the same show, right? Yes, her reaction is slow, but that’s what’s so horrible. She’s so happy, and then her sister *doesn’t* react the way she expected… And *then* she slowly realizes what body is laying in front of Vi, and what the ruined goggles imply. And then she spins into total hysteric panic, because *NOW* it’s not just her being called a jinx, now it’s evident all around her, that even when she thought she was helping, she only made it worse. Her reaction isn’t “Why are you not proud of me? I only wanted to help!” Her reaction is “This was not my plan! I only wanted to help them, not hurt them!” and Vi’s violent reaction, understandable as it is, is also what in the end breaks and ‘kills’ Powder, ‘leaving’ only Jinx. If Vi had somehow been able to react in a better way (Get them the hell away from there, try to comfort her sister) Powder/Jinx might’ve been able to live a more stable life. She would still have PLENTY of problems, but she would still have her rock, her safety net, the one thing keeping her functional. Instead, she got Silco, and well…

[@nanaak8617]

@@PastelGrandpa naaah fam. Slap or not, Powder would have still been fawked. She was fragile.

[@ELbabotas1]

But not the same fawked Also, she may have had a chemical invalance from birth She was just, meant to have a weird future

[@VulpesChama]

@@ELbabotas1 Her whole childhood is one big traumatic experience. A chemical imbalance is not needed as explanation. It also would be a bit lazy if that were the reason / main reason. Funny enough she later got chemicals into her body that likely increased her instability. So no, I soubt she had a chemical imbalance from birth.

[@runningwithscissors1524]

@@VulpesChama I mean, a chemical disruption seems rather inevitable considering how insanely polluted the undercity is. One episode even opened with a bunch of little kids swimming in what looks like industrial runoff. But I agree that a chemical disruption isn’t the only explanation by a long shot.

[@alfred3496]

The latest season of Attack on Titan has one scene that is extremely messed up. Not going to go into spoilers here and I don't wanna analyze too much. But I will say it left me with a similar feeling like the Hodor scene. The show just suddenly decided to explain something that you weren't thinking about at the moment. And the explanation, while neat, also had horrifying implications.

[@books2438]

Which scene are you talking about?

[@kaitvmaim]

Which ep?

[@gisellen9638]

which scene?

[@klejdls1478]

The one with zeke and erens father I'd say

[@heathenpride7931]

@@books2438 definitely has to be talking about the SPOILERS Eren gaslighting and manipulating his father - who we assumed was just a homicidal maniac that butchered an entire family to grab power - into do such acts for his (Eren’s) benefit. Not only is it shocking and shapes the rest of the story, it sheds a different light on many earlier moments, especially back in season 3.

[@thatdudeishere7627]

I saw the title “Hold the door” and got that visceral reaction that I get anytime I think of this scene. This’ll be a good video.

[@myotakuacountyo1216]

I have no idea what this scene is and something tells me that I don't want to know

[@hollowvoidz3472]

@@myotakuacountyo1216 watch the show, it’s probably the best tv series of all time.

[@valon5069]

@@hollowvoidz3472 the scenes good. It’s just one of the few good things after season 4

[@myotakuacountyo1216]

@@hollowvoidz3472 name?

[@valon5069]

@@myotakuacountyo1216 Game of Thrones. If you like intrigue, gore and good writing give the first four seasons a watch. Back then they were basing their show off the book

[@Zarzunabas1]

I call those scenes "suddenly lost potential". Meaning, you have a character that is on an improving arc. But suddenly all the potential for growth, the audience can imagine, is cut short. And maybe even lost for the rest of the story. I see a lot of those in anime. Attack on titan had one in the first season. Code Geass had a big one that sparked a big controversy. The eclipse in Berserk is probably the most shocking one in all of fiction. Not sure about that comedian's performance. that's a totally different experience to me.

[@Zarzunabas1]

The death of euphemia. Everything looked like peace was achievable, but then everything changed in a singel moment. A lot of people didn't like that scene.

[@emmastephens994]

Honestly I think It's the same with the comedian. You have this comedian who already has a certain amount of success, but only doing a specific "character". Reasonably the audience can assume the man behind the character is also funny, but as the set as himself goes on, the audience starts to reckon with the possibility that their favorite comedian might not be funny at all. Also, If it WASN'T a joke, theoretically that might be the end of the comedians career, aka potential cut short.

[@Zarzunabas1]

Ah that could be. I only took this single performance into consideration.

[@justsomeguy5020]

What was it for Attack on Titan?

[@Zarzunabas1]

The scene where Eren gets bitten to pieces and eaten before he could take revenge on even one titan. Nobody expected him to just ignore the rules of life and not die. Just because he got better doesn't undermine the effect that crash had.

[@TheRibottoStudios]

"We're caught off guard, confused even though it's making sense." I'll never forget this reaction mashup I saw of powder getting struck and literally every single reaction was along those lines. People were like "WTF just happened I can't believe she just swung at her bro" or "I get it, she's grieving BUT WHAT ARE YOU DOING VI?" incredible just this INNATE reaction of "WHAT THE F" from SO many different people with SO MANY views on life, so many different takes and so many different opinions....but that ONE moment....EVERYONE had that same GUT reaction of "what in the actual full on f just happened?" and THAT is good writing.

[@TukaihaHithlec]

When I saw that episode the first time, I was shocked and upset when Claggor and Mylo died, but not too surprised. One of the few things I knew going in was the character Jinx, so I expected a turning point, not unlike Revenge of the Sith. But when Powder rounds the corner all proud of herself, only to realize what she actually did, I found that far more sad. Then when Vi hits her in the face and calls her a jinx, I was literally taken aback, I did not see that coming at all. Looking back it felt so natural and maybe even predictable, but in the moment I never would have guessed. Is that what he meant in the video? PS: Looking at reactions to that scene, I’ve actually found most people don’t even bat an eye to the strike, which bewilders me.

[@AdrienMelody]

That comedian has to be the most talented person I’ve ever seen! I can’t imagine putting up such a realistic act before a live audience like that! 😱

[@angelusb2066]

That's Andy Kaufman for you

[@Sweld549]

You should look into his "rivalry" with Jerry Lawler. The man was nothing if not dedicated to the bit.

[@eetuv6075]

I don't think that the Arcane scene really hits all of your criteria. The groundwork for Powders excitement was set up in the scene where she falls and sees the sparkles created by the bomb, and her reaction to Mylos, Claggers and Vanders deaths is very understandable for a girl her age. Also Vi slapping her makes total sense. I wouldn't say that the scene ends suddenly either, it just gives so much to process emotionally. Very good video regardless.

[@schnee1]

When I say "doesn't make sense" I'm talking about the initial impact of the scene as it's presented, not what we realize once we think about it. In the moment, we're caught off guard and dumbstruck. It's purposely presented in a way that doesn't click, and then ofc we can think it through and understand.

[@eetuv6075]

@@schnee1 Yeah it's a roller coaster for sure

[@lompeluiten]

@@schnee1 As I was watching it the first time, I never questioned what was happening. Everything felt logical as it happened. From powders perspective she killed the bad guy with an bomb that worked. She never saw what happened what was in the room, her actions were logical. What I did question was how you should feel about it. I explained in my longer post, but tldr: Too many different emotions, man!

[@mkbthekid2041]

​@@lompeluiten yeah, "doesnt make sense" isnt the right wording, but the idea is there. The scene is Wrong(for lack of better words), not in a bad way, but in that the events that take place dont feel right, just, sensical, or something that you want to feel. its cursed in that events take place that should not take place.

[@sweetbnuy]

I think when he was saying that the scene makes the viewer confused, he was talking about viewers that litteraly DOES NOT KNOW that Powder is Jinx, like, they don't know about league of legends or Jinx in general, so yes, it is very confusing to them. And it does not make total sense.

[@glmou]

That feeling you describe is just Second-Hand guilt, it's the same feeling you get in survivor tragedies when you find out they had to eat the dead to survive. It's a dissonant feeling where you feel that what's happening is absolutely wrong but at the same time because of your empathy with the characters, you feel like you would have done the same in the same situation and are basically confronted with your own dark self, a Shocking, Sad, Powerful and Confusing feeling.

[@forgetfulidiot3186]

"So what do we do to get the audience's attention?" "Hmm... Make a scene that is emotionally impactful" "Okay" "But make it confusing 😉" "... 😐"

[@xyos7647]

Would the scene in Harry Potter and the goblet of fire where Harry comes back at the end of the tourney with the corpse of a classmates fits in your definition of cursed scene? It is beetween two important scenes, come out of nowhere, is sad, disturbing, confusing, but still make sense.

[@schnee1]

yes, great example!

[@aishahsiddeeqa8311]

I don’t think I will ever forget the transition of pep rally music and cheering to Amos diggory wailing over his dead sons corpse

[@curtisholsinger6023]

@@aishahsiddeeqa8311 it felt like the directors wanted to "help" the discordant feeling with the musical number clashing with Harry's grief and the real horror of what had just happened. Still worked, and maybe even better, so maybe that's where the Obvious setup comes in...?

[@katierasburn9571]

i think it would if we didn't know beforehand what happened in the graveyeard? like the boys take the cup, cut back to the audience waiting and then after like 10 secs the boys appear but cedric is dead (and then you could have that scene later as harry is retelling it because plot lol)

[@I.Simmonds]

I am unsure of this. There is a theory that the 3 eyed crow isn't Blood Raven, but in fact Bran him self. Like in the "Magician" series the events in SOIAF is a run of a cycle, Bran is a psychic time traveler constantly attempting an failing to stop the "Nights King" winter-fae/ frost zombie apocalypse. And that Hodor is a victim of Bran's (Or a variant of Bram) tampering with the timeline. Robbing Hodor of his agency and free will and condemning him to be an mule and sacrifice who ultimately has no say in his fate. I cant really see that as noble or honorable if the choice is taken from Hodor.

[@purpleghost106]

Hm. I think if a fan-theory runs counter to the themes of the books rather than enriching them, then it's probably best to not buy in too hard to it. The magic in this world used to be much more common (and may yet be again, hard to tell if it comes in cycles) so why wouldn't there have been more people like Bran in the past, why would he be the first or only human to have powers like that? As cool as time travelers are (and you don't know me but I **love** time travel stories) I think if it doesn't add something thematically then it probably doesn't reflect anything GRRM would have written; he's incredibly theme driven, like characters fates rely on how they fit a particular theme, many of the deaths are thematic and I doubt Hordor's would stray from that.

[@Oblivion4eg]

Afaik, the most logical theory is that bran died together with Hodor by getting his soul eaten and replaced by 3 eyed raven. After that scene there is no Bran and only 3 eyed raven that rules everything. He started the game of thrones and he won it.

[@tarksurmani6335]

​@@Oblivion4eg Why would that be logical? Considering that 3 eyed raven (Bloodraven) had better opportunities to get said crown. Why wait around 80 odd years? For example at 233 AC, he could have easily taken the throne, being one of the greatest Targ bastards. King freshly dead, him being the leader of the Great Council, Kings Landing filled with his minions etc, he also had killed the the biggest problem for Targ dynasty.

[@Oblivion4eg]

@@tarksurmani6335 he was stuck and needed vessel to get out. He had to be killed first also. Bran "received" 3 eyed raven powers after 3ER was killed. My guess is that part of the soul taken over bran and the other took over hodor. In game of thrones there are no coincidences. And if we exclude coincidence for 3 eyed raven, that only leaves sinister plot.

[@tarksurmani6335]

@@Oblivion4eg First of all, he wasn't stuck 100 years. For example I brought you simple example where he was located at 233AC. He had plenty of opportunities to take the throne before "being stuck". Brynden goes "missing" approx 252AC, that is 36 years before even the war of 5 kings started. As I said he had around 80 years time and better opportunities to come to power. He had been kings-guard, master of whispers, Leader of great council, Lord Commander of the wall etc. He had accumulated so much power he could have taken over when-ever he wanted. Eddard Stark hadn't even been born at the time, when Brynden had been fucking around. For a man like Bloodraven, Bran has nothing to offer.

[@EricBridges]

Holy shit -- I know all about pacing and audience expectation -- several years of school studying music composition will do that to you -- but I'd never considered the idea of a "learning" vs "non-learning" scene. It's so obvious once you sat it out loud, but I really do think that's something that Arcane does exceptionally well. They set up and break so many "non-learning" scenes perfectly -- clear transition to action, you know you're gonna get some character development through how the characters behave under stress. You go into it knowing "80% chance of outcome A, 20% chance of outcome B". But then, suddenly, unexpectedly, everything changes. They don't do it every time; the escape/street fight scene from ep 1 is a perfect example. You've got your lite worldbuilding as they run through piltover and then zaun, character building through Powder's trauma, Clagger's stoicism, Milo's pride, Vi's swagger. It all makes sense, and you know you're getting setups to a payoff down the road, and amazing visuals and action on the way. No surprises there. But the sequence in ep 3 is set up the same way -- clearly a culminating event, everybody's in the same room at the same time, nice parallels between topside and bottom, excellent action sequences, amazing animation, and lite character building like seeing Vander's supportiveness, Vi's sense of loyalty and duty, and Milo's shaky confidence under pressure. What's so brilliant about these cursed scenes is that you go into it with the "Here's how I think it'll end" mentality -- 80% chance the monkey bomb works and they escape, powder saves the day; 20% it doesn't and powder gets some more character development as a result. They laid out all the breadcrumbs for you to follow. And it starts going that way and you get that satisfaction of seeing all the threads pay off. You know it could turn, but you get further and further, and you get more and more confident that you're gonna get the A ending. All signs point to success. And then you do get success -- Vi clears all but the biggest baddie, Milo frees Vander in time to help her with the big bad monster, Clagger punched a hole in the wall for them to get through, and hey look, Powder's bomb worked -- Vander doesn't even have to fight the monster, they can just escape! We're getting the A ending! And look at that, the bomb nearly got Silco too! He'll think twice about messing with powder now! And it also blew up the lab where they're making the monster juice! This is the best possible version of the A ending! Even Milo's gonna have to admit that Powder did good this time! At this point, we can check out mentally -- we know we're done learning, we know which ending we're getting. Now we just get to sit back and enjoy the eucatastrophe alongside the good guys. Not sure what comes next, but it's the end of Act 1 and some crazy stuff happened in Piltover, so that'll probably be where the conflict in Act 2 will shift. And then, an instant shift. Seconds after we've got confirmation of "best possible A ending", it shifts. We're not gonna get A -- that explosion went through the door. But this isn't the B ending either. The B ending was "it didn't work". This is completely unexpected. This is "it worked too well". And that thought doesn't have enough time to percolate -- recalibrate around what this new ending means, what our new A and B options are -- when the consequences start rolling in, so fast we can't even process them -- Milo's stabbed, Clagger injured, Milo and Clagger crushed (but maybe still alive somehow??), Vander injured, Vi badly injured, monster somehow alive, Milo and Clagger dead!, monster unaffected!, Vi sees the monkey!, does she think Powder did this? or is she just worried that Powder followed them and got injured the freak explosion too?? Vander gets up on pure adrenaline and rage, time for some catharsis, fuck yeah!, oh shit the fights not going well, nevermind he wins!, Vander stabbed!, character moment (will he kill Silco??), Vander stabbed again!, Vander falls!, Vander dead??, monster approaches!, Vander not dead!, will Vander become a monster??, he does!, finally the catharsis we were promised!, Vander wins, saves Vi, Vander dies!, tragedy! Ah! We got the twist ending. Well done Arcane. Now we can see the conflict that's gonna fuel Act II. Man, what a ride. We just got bombarded. We had a hard time processing it, but it all happened in sequence, and we get it now. Awful, but we understand that this was some heavy shit. Whew. But they twist the knife. Powder turns the corner, and she's happy. She doesn't know what we know -- what Vi knows. Powder is gonna get hit with all of this, but it's gonna hit her all at once. This isn't even the twist ending we thought we were gonna get. This is so much worse. And to top it all off, it's not just maximum trauma for Vi and Powder -- Silco sees her and we fear that he'll hurt her too, but he doesn't. He empathizes with her. He sees himself, his own trauma, in her trauma. He hugs her. He cares for her in her moment of need. *He* becomes *her* good guy. So brilliant. Hardly needs to be said at this point, but the more I think about it, the more I appreciate the immaculate writing there. **And it's not even the best scene of the show**. At worst, it's a three-way tie between the endings of each act, though the tea party takes the cake for me. Every cursed scene in this show does this, to a greater or lesser extent -- Ep 3, Ep 6, Ekko v Powder/Jinx, Viktor and Skye, the factory raid, the tea party. Every single one says "A or B", then delivers C, and then twists the knife, and this "cursed scene" framework is how they do it. Ugh. It's disgusting how good this show is. I could probably talk about those scenes alone for hours. I mean, clearly -- you already have. So good. Well done on this one. Amazing analysis.

[@boxumansquared]

Great job ! You’re really good at this !

[@danielhughes3758]

I really enjoyed reading all that. It's incredible just how detailed and we'll thought out this story is

[@Eckertainment]

Literally saving this comment as part of my writing study notes. You described this so well that when you see it written out, you can see the formula. The world building and character development need to support the "formula" well to make to hit as intended of course, but it's so much easier to see how to starting constructing the pieces that have potential to lead to something as incredible as this scene in Arcane. I don't even play LoL. A friend of my watched Arcane with me because we're playing a DnD campaign that he's set in the world of LoL. I took an interest in Piltover and Zaun when he briefly laid out the world map and territories for us when we were working on characters and I came across Arcane on Netflix by chance a few days later. This show still made me love and hurt for these characters. I've been meaning to rewatch it and it's only been a few weeks since we finished it. Beautiful art style and incredible writing.

[@vice2versa]

It seems like cursed scenes have a tragic but hidden ark underneath another while slowly rising to the surface of the story as the top layered plotline is unfolding. I want to know of other cursed scenes in movies or tv.

[@mazeknox]

I really enjoyed this comment 👍

[@cldominguez42]

I feel like the payoff of the "He'll knock four times" setup in Doctor Who has a version of this cursed energy. We just come off a dramatic conclusion to a major villain's arc, the Doctor is relieved, then we hear it, and we watch the Doctor's heart sink as he realizes the innocence that has caused his demise.

[@thecrazyemu05]

Arcane's final scene is also 'cursed' - it fits the criteria perfectly. Jinx's hallucination with Vi and Silco yelling is followed by a sudden slowing of pace and a mixture of disbelief, tragedy, confusion and ambivalence. Also the revelation of Jinx's "fishbones" addresses a conspicuous feature of Jinx after a long delay - even though it's from the game, not the series. I've never played league, but I'd seen models of Jinx and really felt something click when I saw her rocket launcher.

[@Zentapir]

The comedian was art and your analysis is great. It made me feel through the hodor scene once more and even more intense.

[@togaturtle]

I didn't find the Powder scene disorientating really. It was a masterful mix of emotions in a cruel twist but it's not like I didn't understand it. I haven't watched GoT so I can't speak to that scene (and a quick introduction would've helped a lot since I had no idea what was supposed to be happening).

[@ResaChiic]

Agreed. I also never read/watched GoT, so even after watching the entire video, I still have no idea what the Hodor scene is about

[@vice2versa]

@@ResaChiic Hodor throughout the show is mentally retarded and only says his name Hodor. He cant say any other word. Bran worgs into the past where he sees a young Hodor and this Hodor can talk properly and is intelligent. Bran then while trying ro save people in the present, worgs into Hodor but also past hodor who collapse yelling Hold the door, over and over slowly pronouncing it as what later became his name "Hodor". The whole time this is happening, you dont understand whats going on until he starts saying Hodor

[@bee-zz6bf]

right,, i keep trying to like this dude's videos, mostly because they're the only arcane writing video essays i can find, but he's always so far off the mark and wrong about just a lot of stuff

[@togaturtle]

@@bee-zz6bf I tend to find that most takes I can agree with, some are a little far fetched but sometimes overanalysing things can be helpful in working out how to write well.

[@ResaChiic]

@@bee-zz6bf i usually enjoy a lot of his other points, esp since he notices things I never noticed. But this is the first one that genuinely confused me. Giving context to non-fans would’ve definitely helped

[@angelharris3727]

The powder scene is logical. Powder is happy not because she is becoming jinx or soon to become jinx. She is happy because she thought she did something good and saved the day. Its easy to understand, and the fact that she becomes Jinx in the future has no correlation to the happiness she felt for helping her friends.

[@Zephirite.]

9:10 Did anyone think Powder was a "monster" when they watched this? Because it was so clearly an accident she was agonized about, she came off more as a victim than a villain. Powder yelling "I don't CARE about them--aren't you PROUD of me, Vi?! We're FINALLY equals now! I CAN FINALLY HELP!" would've revealed she was always sociopathic/obsessed with approval (as stated in the "controversial Powder theory" video), rather than the slave to inevitability/bad luck she is instead (until the finale...). The reveal that Powder doesn't care about others didn't feel like a reveal, bc there's always more to know about a character--especially in a turbulent moment, and so early into the show. Whereas the magic system/rules of reality being shattered makes an easily noticeable impact, bc we live with those rules daily/in every second of the show, and our satisfaction stems from knowing they're concrete rules.

[@noobatredstone3001]

Yes, it’s after this explosion that she became crazy

[@Zephirite.]

@@noobatredstone3001 I meant thinking Powder's a monster for asking Vi "WHY DID YOU LEAVE ME?!" instead of mourning her family. I agree-- she became far more sadistic AFTER this event.

[@danielleswanson8149]

Don't know if you've ever watched the show Dark on Netflix, but if you haven't, you absolutely should. The show features a cursed scene (excellent term you've coined here, by the way!) in the first season, and I think you'd love it. Awesome analysis as always. These scenes all force such visceral feelings onto us as viewers, whether we like it or not - ugh, I love them and hate them at the same time, lol.

[@julieta6171]

Might I ask wich scene in Dark ur refering to?

[@danielleswanson8149]

@@julieta6171 I won't spoil too much for anyone who happens to be reading, but the scene I'm thinking of is near the end of the first season! There may be more than one cursed scene in the show, depending on your definition, but... definitely that one.

[@patrikneperfekta7575]

@@danielleswanson8149 Is it about a scar for life?

[@bloop6111]

As someone who watched Dark I am also curious

[@keel1237]

There's a lot of cursed scenes in dark

[@1andonlyTophBeiFong]

I’m just trying to figure this out. Powder’s reaction to her invention finally working and having a moment of pride seems to me to make sense. She hasn’t yet realized what her actions caused and doesn’t even recognize that it’s Vander on the ground that Vi is clutching. She wasn’t in the room when the bomb went off and got blasted off the building with the explosion so she couldn’t know what had just happened to her friends/family to make her reaction inappropriate. It may be a cursed scene from Vi’s perspective because she had no idea it was Powder that had created a bomb from the gem stones and then set it off in her effort to help except in the one visual clue she got from the monkey toy head as she was trapped under the door but the audience is keenly aware of everything that led to that scene. I feel like it would be more cursed if the animators hadn’t shown the events where Powder had created the bomb before meeting Vi in the immediate aftermath. If they had Powder’s breakdown that led up to her creating the bomb as Vi filled in the blanks I think the audience would have better experienced what Vi was feeling as a cursed moment.

[@vice2versa]

Powder sees Vander and claggors goggles on the ground, she slowly realizes it was her fault.

[@vice2versa]

Im not quite sure what your getting at with the last few sentences of your post. A cursed scene also has to be a major character defining moment that doesnt just reveal the importance of the scene but also subverts expectations. When they showed powder climbing the building, shes set up to succeed according to the underdog movie/TV tropes. They subverted that expectation completely which leaves you feeling disoriented in a way. Something that makes you think, did that really just happen.

[@nanaak8617]

@@vice2versa Not really disorientated, buddy. They did a good job with writing but contrary to your expectations (and those of Powder fans), I saw her as intentionally written to be an unlikeable doogooder, who constantly screws up their own efforts at doing the right thing. She is an agent of chaos in the story. Self absorbed, noncompliant. And her psychosis is destructive. Vi is the good guy. And I'm glad for it. Powder was set up to subvert our expectations of a villain origin story, I think.

[@Super_BeastGirl]

Fun fact - I had never before watched game of thrones, and this episode with this scene was my introduction to the show. I watched it with a best friend at the time and she was so excited to be watching the new episode with me. And she cried so much and I felt so bad .. and she cried the next day, and it was all over the internet with crying memes... And Yeah. That was my first experience of GOT

[@kantpredict]

So you got none of the setup, so none of the requisite building, so none of thr meaningful payoff? Damn.

[@joemieszczur9735]

i always thought, bran worging in to hodor was just one of his powers, but when he was asked to worg in to hodor while he was acting as the three eyed raven, in history, he worged in to hodors past. and is unintentionally (cuz he doesnt know better), giving past hodor the memories of future hodor. so hodor lived his whole life knowing how he would die, but couldnt tell anyone. which explains why even as a "giant" he is mortally terrified of wights. he doesn't know when, just how and why he dies. which shows so much of his character to still care for bran.

[@myralee1760]

that's even worse. I'm gonna think about this every night before i sleep for a whole week. god.

[@cherriesllol]

I think that part of the cursed energy is that you realize it was always meant to be, realize how inescapable some aspect of the scene is. This is similar to the conspicuous set up + delay idea, but I think it's important to emphasize the inevitability of the scene. For Powder, that's Mylo always commenting on Powder being a jinx and that she'll get them killed. He's absolutely right -- she kills him and destroys their family, just as he always said. But we're set up to believe that we're going to watch a show in which Powder gains confidence and skill and becomes the hero of her family. Instead, we learn we should have trusted the worst things said about her.

[@LCaaroe]

I don't understand the part about the Arcane scene not making sense for Powder. It's a believable transition in her reaction when she goes from believing she helped to realizing she fucked it all up - we have already seen her trauma so I don't think it comes as a surprise that she's not a normal girl. Yeah, it's a surprise that she turns into a monster but it's not surprising that she's utterly traumatized and just lost the last positive influence in her life. I don't understand your point at all.

[@plagueknight8026]

I think he means how she doesn't seem to react to what she's done, she focuses on all her pain and how things affect her. She doesn't say "I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry" she says "I only wanted to help I only wanted to help I only wanted to help" making excuses and focusing on Violet being angry at her, which isn't necessarily how she means it, but then after Vi hits her she yells "Why did you leave me?!" again about her pain never anything about anyone else's or her regret or anything. She seemed to rely solely on Vi there aren't even any positive scenes with her other family member and she seems numb to the death of anyone else. Throughout the series it can be safe to assume her major trauma isn't killing her whole family but Vi's reaction to it, Vi 'abandoning her'.

[@AdrienMelody]

@@plagueknight8026 Of course, to be fair, that’s more or less how you’d expect a child to react to something so awful that it defies comprehension. I feel like you’d need to be fairly mature to respond to such a situation the right way without instantly crumpling into a heap of self-pity and fear. Interestingly, Jinx’s character is largely defined by her childlike personality, as if her emotional development was frozen in time. I’d wager that, because she had no possible way to process that traumatic experience in a healthy way, she kinda got “stuck” in that immature, self-centered mindset.

[@plagueknight8026]

@@AdrienMelody you're definitely right about her being a little girl mentally making it harder to empathize and her odd behaviors such as sitting in Silco's lap. I think whether she was showing signs of lack of empathy/Jinx or just a normal reaction from an emotionally stunted child is hard to determine. I think it largely depends on her age people argue for her being between 8-12 if she's 8 I'd lean towards it being the latter but if she's around 12 I'd think it's a lot more worrying of a reaction. Either way it seems she wasn't healthy to begin with. Witnessing her parents death she learned to rely solely on Vi, developing bad separation anxiety. Then when Vi left it broke her because even when she had a family she was all she had. Regardless I don't think Powder becoming Jinx was inevitable even if she did have a complete lack of empathy to begin with.

[@AdrienMelody]

@@plagueknight8026 I agree ☝🏻

[@vivvy_0]

true

[@seanlynch9000]

If you want to check out some examples of these cursed scenes in a manga form, Junji Ito is a master of this. He makes shorter stories where they basically focus around this concept. I’d highly recommend “The Enigma of Amigara Fault” and “Uzimaki” to get a good idea of his work.

[@stabbycat748]

I remember watching Jojo Rabbit and noting in my head that it focussed on the mom’s shoes a lot. I knew in my brain that SOMETHING was going to happen, but the overall light-hearted aspect of the movie made me completely forget about them until it’s revealed as to why those shoes were important.

[@francescaprotesto2553]

Oh my god, PLEASE do a video on Don’t Hug Me I’m Scared! I love your content, and I’m interested in your take on the fascinatingly weird series!

[@lompeluiten]

The arcane scene isnt an cursed scene by your own metrics. It is disortienting for antother reason: rappid fire of different emotions: pain, sadness, flowed by pride, then anger, abondenment, hope, crushed hope… and the keep coming in the next scene: fear, dread, confusing, happiness(finding an new father figure is happiness), omminous…. After te first watching… you dont know what to think… so many emotions were fired, that you are disoriented. Normally hollywood does like 1 emotion per scene, maybe two, but here…. I had to catch an breath. You might have te same feeling as an cursed scene, but te reason is quite different: many emotions, and not all of them are complementary.

[@boo9781]

That’s absolutely correct, you can see how everything in the scene in arcane was perfectly set up. We’re not confused cause of a huge revelation, but because of the low time we are given to breath between every strong emotion in screen. But everything makes sense, Vi hitting powder makes sense, never questioned it. Powder feeling like she succeeded was literally set up the scene before hand with her glorious fall. Marcus trapping Vi was alluded seconds before the scene. Silco being near by is just common sense. Where the revelation? Where’s the contradiction? This criteria does not apply to the arcane scene

[@Dorma_]

@@boo9781 The revelation is that Powder is Jinx (becomes bad due to what happens) and ruined her relationship with her sister while killing people she cared about (instead of saving them). It's set up for Powder to help but she does the opposite (set up by her jinxing every job). It's set up as Vi and team (including Powder) vs Silco and Piltover. Fighting against extreme violence and oppression. The confusion comes from Powder causing the failure. Then it's revealed that she's switched sides and is the villian.

[@EricBridges]

It's both/and, I think. It ticks the "cursed scene" boxes he outlined, but it's the constant emotional whiplash that makes it hit so hard. I just spent a stupidly long time writing out my thoughts on it in a different comment, so I'll spare you here, but the key is -- set up an "A or B" expectation for how the scene will play out, deliver a (logical, reasonable) "C" ending, and then before the audience has a chance to process what that means, twist the knife. This "cursed scene" framework is essentially the building blocks of how to set up and break audience expectations so horrifically.

[@boo9781]

@@Dorma_ it’s not? Like from episode one powder has done nothing but to fuck things up. Minutes before powder intervenes everything is going great, that’s not a set up for them needed to be helped, is a set up for things going wrong once powder intervenes. The show did nothing but show us how powder was gonna fuck up and get grave consequences for it. Are you really telling that after watching the same explosion from five different perspective and in literally none of them any of the characters were happy but in powders, and still it caught you off guard that Vi snapped at her after she murdered the entire family and then was happy about it? Could you really not see that coming? If it was meant to be a surprise why set up the explosive power of the crystals? Why set up powder’s emotional breakdown? Why set up her misinterpretation of the events? Why set up Vi’s violent tendencies? Why set up Claggor’s glasses as a way of showing powder what she had done? Why set up anything if it was meant to be unexpected? The answer is that if you truly didn’t see it coming you’re either blind or simply misremembering your own experience. This scene was about Powder all the way through with just a little break to show how things are going well to immediately have powder mess up again.

[@Dorma_]

@@boo9781 I think you're misunderstanding. Powder's bombs don't work (useless to them) would logically mean that they will eventually work. However, the twist is instead of being useful, it's actively bad. Do you know what characters arcs are? I saw something like it coming as I knew she was Jinx, but I didn't guess it would be as bad as it was. Also, it all makes logical sense, but the typical arc would be Powder realiseing that she is useful ('what makes you different makes you strong'). Vi snapping isn't surprising, but still upsetting and atypical, Vi is shown to be nothing but loving to Powder. Everything else you've written is irrelevant to my point. Obviously, once you see Powder mess up, it all makes sense, and there's meant to be a sense of dread of 'what if it goes wrong again' (because obviously stuff is set up for that), but how bad it is is the most shocking part. There's a piece of writing advice I heard that's to make things surprising, yet inevitable. I think that fits here

[@KyleDB150]

One thing they did great in the hodor scene was make the transition extremely gradual, letting each viewer come to that horrifying realisation by themselves. I first watched it in a group, and it was amazing thinking "wait are they really saying...", and then hearing people in the room get it one by one

[@vincentliang8548]

I feel like these are all of the thematic storytelling details that make a piece of media great that we as an audience will probably never get to see or will never perceive in such a detailed and well structured way, im so glad you make these videos for Arcane and others so we can finally understand and put into words what it is we feel when we watch something we know is great.

[@PaleImperator]

Maybe the warren purge in Watership Down, or the sinking into mud scene in The Brave Little Toaster? Are those other possible examples?

[@emily-grace6246]

Okay, I’m absolutely obsessed with your channel at this point. You’re making me excited to create stories and pay attention to how the brilliant ones come to be. Thank you thank you thank you

[@soulfulsoil4788]

Fascinating stuff! I just watched Nope this weekend, and I think the Gordy's Home scenes (especially the one near the midpoint of the story) fit this cursed scene structure very well. I never thought about how audience confusion or disorientation can be used in this way augment the scene's emotions, It makes me want to learn more about how intentionally putting the audience into that space can help force the brain to pick up on subtextual, symbolic, or thematic information. Thanks for your really interesting insights!

[@dairallan]

While I agree that most examples you will find of this are short and abrupt, an entire movie has been made which is basically this concept. Donnie Darko. One of the most devastating films ever made. The level of sacrifice is just mind boggling when you actually realise that the way that the protagonist saves the girl he loves not just by sacrificing his life but by removing all impact he ever had on her from the timeline. But I do agree with a few comments others have made, I really don't think the Arcane scene fits in with the theme. It has elements of this sort of cursed scene but I dont think its got enough of them or even is really being used in this way. The emotional hit from the Arcane scene is much, much more organic than this type of moment requires. I think the main reason it doesnt fit is that these scenes are quintessentially Tell Dont Show while the Arcane scene is still very, very much in the Show Dont Tell sphere.

[@vice2versa]

I dont think you have a full understanding of what a cursed scene is. Cursed scenes are usually character defining plot points that are hidden underneath another concurring plot point. Its revelation acts as a subversion of expectations and tropes that make you think its gonna go a different direction. The scenes before it act as indirect set up to the REAL point of the point of the scene which throws you for a loop. Powder was set up to succeed according to the underdog trope and they completely flip that on its head revealing rhat its actually her villain origin story. I havent seen Donnie Darko so i have nothing to add on that.

[@PBRatLord]

My favorite Cursed Scene (or as I've seen it called in the comments, Soul Horror; like the ring of that) is the final conversation between Faye and Spike from Cowboy Bebop. Holy shit, what an emotionally charged scene that paid off on so many small details from throughout the show; so many little mannerisms and lines thrown into perfect context followed by the blaring of horns as Real Folk Blues cuts in and gives us a moment to come to try and come to terms with Spike's decision to leave. The realization that this is a man stuck in the past, finally forced to face the present and the direction his life has taken as a result of his own well-intentioned actions. Can't really put the scene into words, but even without the context of the rest of the show, those 60 seconds will still make my gut drop to this day...

[@kantpredict]

I got chills as soon as I read "Real Folk Blues"

[@tinoschmidt6581]

dude legit love everyone of the videos I've seen by you, you do such an amazing job at explaining a givin subject

[@samv.l.5819]

Brother all these scenes are pure perfection and are FILLED to the brim with so much emotions and you can almost feel the pain and heart brake of the characters in these scenes. I just loved watching these Series and I'm a HUGE fan of ARCANE and I think by seeing all these scenes again in one row I'm NOT going to sleep this night haha. I just want to say that both these series were and still are emotional rollercoasters but ARCAN some what more than GOT. Good vid keep up the good work

[@Arskaattor1]

I think that arcane has another cursed scene with Jinx being brought to Singed's lab and saved in ep8. When you said "cursed scene", that was immediately what I thought of, and after watching the video, I think that it perfectly fits the criteria for one.

[@nikkospelledlikethat8140]

When I read the title of the video what I thought of was power’s breakdown when vi had told her to stay behind. Idk if that fits the criteria but I think it has that right vibe.

[@Arskaattor1]

@@nikkospelledlikethat8140 Good point, I dont think it quite fits the criteria but it certainly does give off a similar vibe.

[@vice2versa]

Yall got it all wrong guys. Notice how all 3 videos feature a twist???? Cursed scenes are basically a type of Twist in a story or character ark thats set up before hand in an unexpected way that throws you for a loop once revealed. You may think the point of a particular scene was for one thing only to find out it's merely just set up for something else far different and much deeper than you anticipated. The set up is often disorienting before it all finally makes sense. In arcans case the set up comes across like a your average predictable show until it completely flips those expectations on your head.

[@Arskaattor1]

@@vice2versa I do think the scene mentioned in the video is a better example of a cursed scene than the one I mentioned exatly because it doesn't really have the kind of bait and switch that the others do, but it does still have many of the conditions and has a similar vibe to the other scenes. I also really struggled to understand condition 4 (probably due to english not being my 1st language) so take what i'm saying with a pinch of salt.

[@dannyelsupremo6127]

I think that Made in Abyss is a giant-cursed series, is one of the first series that made feel uncomfortable but exited at the same time.

[@wtaysom]

Made in Abyss has all the curses: levels of curses, curses within curses. Then they Chekhov gun it so incessantly that by the time it goes off, you have no right to be surprised.

[@myralee1760]

a pivotal death scene in Haunting of Hill House was...yeah it gave me the same feeling.

[@lofited98]

I really love ur videos, honestly the few I have seen have helped me with my creative writing process already. I have only seen like 3 of ur vids, but now I want to finish arcane, because that’s clearly a prerequisite for being a fan of ur content hahaha

[@Practicallypreposterous]

Holy shit, that essay was so good, it made me tie up an important scene in my story roadmap, and from there it cascaded into a logical connecting of most final arcs and important final moments. Damn that was a good dissection

[@pouchpocalypse4274]

Hi

[@Practicallypreposterous]

@@pouchpocalypse4274 hey babe

[@celandine280]

absolutely loved the hodor bit at the end 😂

[@PuppetThanksScott]

I think "Dark" is the one show that manages to pull this of so perfectly! There are so many cursed scenes in there which is why I'd even call it a cursed show, it's fantastic!

[@BrainPlusBlender]

The nod to the “don’t hug me I’m scared” series was a nice touch

[@Gmailfirstaccount]

This is such a specific and interesting topic, thank you for the content!!

[@calvinjohnson6242]

EDIT: This was written before the video uploaded. Is this about really cool scenes that are amazing in the moment but in hindsight incredibly underutilized and useless to the plot? Because the Hodor scene is exactly that. A major Chekhov’s gun that is never fired. Bran’s ability to warp time is never seen again, and though this scene is incredible and I’m glad it exists, it introduces major problems to the story.

[@MasterPoppers]

It's notably useless in the show. If the book is ever finished, I doubt it'll be useless there.

[@LinkEX]

The fact that it stayed underutilized is perhaps also a symptom of the TV series deviating from the books. We don't know if there will be a payoff that builds on this scene in ASoIaF. Yet one that ultimately doesn't change the final state JRR Martin has intended for his story, and told the writers of Game of Thrones (who merely screwed up tying up the loose ends more nicely).

[@wyxxoz3955]

strongly agree. While this video is interesting its kinda dumb. The Hodor scene is quite useless and very disappointing and the Arcane scene doesn't even fit with the poster's criterias.

[@EnglisherThanThou]

There's one example of this in particular that I've never been able to stop thinking about since I saw it: without spoiling it too much in case anyone hasn't seen it yet, it's the scene from Attack on Titan where they're on the wall after the incident at the castle. It follows a big action scene where there were some massive plot reveals that we're still reeling from and this is supposed to be a calm section where we get to take stock before moving on. Instead some even more shocking information gets dropped *in the background* as the focus is on another character and the bizarrely casual way it's delivered makes us think we must have heard wrong until the protag, echoing the audience's confusion, shouts "HUH?" and focus shifts to them. Absolute masterclass in mindf**king the audience.

[@shadowshade904]

YES that scene litteraly left me reeling, I had to rewind multiple times to make sure I didn't miss something or wasn't just misunderstanding somehow

[@dadcomeback1470]

What does this scene convey? You: intelligent response Me: pure pain 😢

[@BrotherlyBear]

I have nothing smart to add here, but I still absolutely love this video. I discovered your whole channel through the shorts like, last sunday, and have been just binging all of your videos since then. Today's obviously my last one to "binge" which is bittersweet, but I'm excited to see what more you put out. Thanks for indulging my hyperfixation(s) with your content!

[@mercury2110]

Love the vid! Great insight

[@BarbaraA.MertzRN-CCRN]

The content of your videos is TRULY impressive. Thank you!

[@automemories3051]

your videos feel like a class with an actually interesting topic

[@gymnasticsgirl818]

This video is amazing! All the beautiful analyzing, I really enjoyed it!

[@cory99998]

Thanks for all of the effort you put into your insights, great stuff

[@kurloveskitties8667]

CKDKSBXIABS ok I loved the video but I just want to say at the end when you're showing examples of this being done with other emotions the scene with the boy and the butterfly just completely broke my brain in a way much like the cursed scenes! I have no idea what that scene is from or even if this was from your editing but the contrast that you go from between "cute, innocent" with a small child chasing a butterfly then there's feet at the height of the child's face and you have a brief moment of confusion, of "how is that possible", followed by overwhelming realization of what is truly happening in this scene, then the constant back and forth your brain has of the contrast between this innocence of a child, touching the shoes like it's nothing, and the actual horrifying reality of what is really happening. This is so so impactful and also present/crucial in the cursed scenes!! Making the reader or watcher's head go back and forth between two or more emotional reactions to what is happening. You're proud of powder for her gadget working but also it caused such horrible distruction but also she's so happy in her innocence, the bliss of FINALLY being useful, but also she has to know what kind of impact it caused I mean the building when up in flames and you're still reeling from what we just witnessed - EVERYONE dying and Vi having to watch it all - this specific disorienting component is so important to make scenes (any type of scene, really) so much more impactful. Life is complex, seeing that represened in the media we consume impacts us a lot. There is one line from the good place which is constantly on my mind, it's (may be paraphrasing) "All of us (humans) are a little bit sad all of the time because we know we're gonna die one day" and that's the thing; if you make a scene entirely happy and blissful and peaceful and there is nothing negative in any way shape or form like sure, it's nice, but it's also... Forgetful. If it drags on too long, it becomes boring. It's not something we can really relate to. The more you want a scene to get stuck in people's heads, the more contrasting emotions it should draw! Innocence/darkness, Peacefulness/dread, the way you feel uncomfortable and bad for the comedian and the pathetic demeanor you just witnessed as you watch him drinking in with confidence the attention while he's pulling that final stunt. Complete ramble, but just wanted to share m'thoughts *tips fedora*

[@sophiefavilla]

the film in that snippet is jojo rabbit if you're interested

[@TheCrowFKAPS]

Ju-on had a scene like this. (I think it was a Ju-On movie at least, but it's been over 10 years since I've seen it) The whole story, the character is hearing these knocks on the wall. It was driving her crazy. Then, by the end, she's hanging from the ceiling and a little boy is pushing her into the wall over and over, presumably for fun. I will never forget that scene, even though I forgot everything else about the movie. Thank you for the video. I want to watch Arcane now, mostly so I can understand your videos. And for Jinx.

[@vincentguzzetta6366]

You mention this type of scene in horror and it definitely makes me think of the scene in Get Out when the girlfriend is "looking for her keys". Its telegraphed a little harder, but if you are just lightly watching the movie you are deep in the moment of "how are THEY going to escape" and the actress sells sense of desperation in a act that is itself a ridiculous horror trope that we are all used to: I just need to get car/door but I'm fumbling for my keys. Then the reveals happens right in the thick of the action and you are caught in the feeling that he was always alone there.

[@catacc.]

Yeeees! Don't hug me I'm scared + schnee please!! 🙇🏻‍♀️🙇🏻‍♀️🙇🏻‍♀️

[@Sproutlas]

I love your videos man, you pick up things that i could never hahaha

[@plsbanhackers9031]

I am impressed by this analysis. Subscribed

[@nana_banana5921]

I have never watched GOT but I can see that the sense that you showed will keep me up tonight yay. Also yes a lot of the scenes from arcane kept me up at night like when Grayson just gets slaughtered in front of us holy cow

[@awindai9067]

That was a hell of a good analysis. Also you might get me to watch Arcane xD

[@frankie9772]

You’re making me fall in love with game of thrones again I didn’t know there were so many similarities to arcane in it

[@calebstephens601]

The sun tree moment from The Legend of Vox Machina and Critical roles first campaign is one of the best confusion to horror moments I've ever seen. I don't know if it perfectly fits a cursed scene but its certainly "cursed" in other ways. And is having major payoffs years later in critical roles third campaign. Also excellent video as always!

[@grey8288]

It doesn't fit most of these criteria, but it was such a big OOF of a scene....watching the cast as, one by one, they figured it out. In the game, the slow realization and drawn out descriptions, followed by sitting through Matt continuing to describe the corpses while everyone has their hands to their mouth and/or jaw dropped was a major reason why the scene left with such a sense of deep dread, but I appreciated that the show used camera angles and panning shots to show the connection, and I LOVE that they got to add the bit of us, the audience, getting to "meet" the little girl and know that she will be murdered and strung from a tree just to prove a point... Not to mention hearing what was done to some of the other people, cropping their ears to make them look like half elves, as we learn in C3.

[@hal7741]

Another one that doesnt quite meet the criteria is the falling tower scene early in campaign 2. I forgot the name of the city but where the plot is leading up and up to this heist they are doing and the lady walking in only for their guide to straight up ditch the plan and suicide bomb her, only for another insane layer to unravel with the bombing of the tri spire. Just an insane chain of events that inspired horror and confusion and understanding

[@SavveGaming]

Both of these scenes seriously are burned into my brain. Hodor’s big reveal in that episode was the exact moment I knew GRRM is one of the greatest fantasy authors of all time. Truly an absolute master of his craft.

[@Prophetofthe8thLegion]

The best part is that was written by the script writers after season 4 or 5 they had run out of source material.

[@moshruum6514]

Weird take but I don’t think powder became jinx, I think they were always the same person one just a different path someone with a fragile mind and abandonment/death issues. Powder craves love and praise because she’s always been seen as the little incapable sister who needed to be protected even before her adoptive siblings died. She was still very much dealing with the loss of her parents when she was too young to help and then in her attempt to be able to save the family she has now she destroyed it all over again further pushing her in her trauma and completely breaking her psyche. Jinx is powder and powder is jinx. Jinx still craved and wanted to have a loving family and to make someone proud of her, she’s always wanted to be strong enough to help and in the end she ended up repeating history by trying to figure out herself and what she cared about more, her father figure Silco and making him proud or her sister who in her mind entirely abandoned her and trying to make her proud as well. She’s still powder at her core of being, she just ended up giving up on trying to make up for what she’s done trying to help and embraced it instead even if it led her down the wrong path.

[@keiser6656]

I just love your analyses ! Asking yourself about the mechanics that bring us emotions in a scene, dig deep into it until you find logical answers that rest on clear arguments that interlock into each other and work on multiples scenes. This is basically scientific work on art and emotions and damn I love it ! I'd love to know if you work in the field of writing. And if not do you intent to ? Would you plan to interview writers and share those in here so we can all dive in the beautiful, much more complex than it seems, world of writing ? I'm passionate about this and now I'm even more hooked ! Hope you'll have time and interest in answering my comment.

[@forafewnightsout]

I don't think it fits perfectly or even mostly, BUT the season 2 finale of HANNIBAL on nbc is such Cursed crescendo for all the characters involved and ends with the villian winning but sad he won, he didn't want to. Honestly hannibal does a whole lot of unique narrative, character, cinematography work that I am not educated enough to understand. If you have watched it, ID DIE to hear what you talk about it.

[@marinosbitter]

For me on the comedian note: Bo Burnham - Can't Handle This (Kanye Rant) fits quite well in this category. Everything from the setup, the song itself to knowing he ended in a complete burnout abides by the rules you pointed out. It hits specifically hard when you also listen to his "All eyes on me" song a couple of years later.

[@mick-ericboettge8683]

This is the first video of yours I've seen where I don't really follow. I feel like the three scenes all are 'cursed' and work for different reasons. Really the only thing that's similar in all three is the emotional whiplash they give you. It's like you're already overwhelmed from a wild rollercoaster ride of emotional storytelling and as you get to a point where you expect a break there's yet another drop, deeper than everything combined (the sinkhole was a good analogy), although in Kaufmanns case it the drop wasn't devastating, it was relief and hilarious. Most notably I never felt confused or irritated during the Arcane scene, just very overwhelmed emotionally.

[@omerlan100]

keep up with these , looking forward for house of the dragon vids (hopefully its great as the early reviews say)

[@jsmalls911]

Note: in the back to the future movie inconsistency you referenced, it was revealed later on that that scene with old biff was a longer scene that got cut down in the movie. The full scene in context showed old biff slowly starting to fade out of existence as soon as he got out of the delorean. It's available on you tube

[@aech619]

I’d love an Arya and Tywin video. That would be interesting.

[@saltlakeatrocity9771]

Awesome video. I wish i had more context, like a scene summary, to understand the example from Arcane as i have never watched it nor experienced its source material in any way. But i can appreciate that this was made specifically for those in the overlapped venn diagram between these two shows' audiences.

[@saltlakeatrocity9771]

Edit: on further examination it appears your channel is based largely off Arcane, a fact i was not privy too when id clicked this recommendation from YT. My bad.

[@the_red_jinx]

Your videos got me to watch Arcane. I never played league (dota got me first), but now I am so in love with Arcane and have to have more of this world. Thank you for introducing me to my new obsession

[@Anony-mouse0728]

People keep saying that the powder scene wasn’t disconnecting or disorienting for them, but I disagree. In the seen we see powder with an overwhelming sense of pride. Her invention finally worked. Then, she noticed the goggles. She understands what she’s just done, but she doesn’t cry. She doesn’t feel guilt set in. She waits. She waits to see what Vi’s reaction is, and then she starts to cry and plead when Vi starts to get upset with her. And even then she doesn’t say “I’m sorry”, she’s says “I only wanted to help”. Its so disorienting because of how disconnected to death she is, and how selfishly she reacts. It makes sense, since she grew up in place like Zaun. Her parents dying at such a young age, and it’s not like she had a strong relationship with any of them, aside from Vi. But it still leaves us with a weird feeling. We felt so empathetic towards this character until now. She was a meek, scared young girl, but now she’s completely different. It’s such a drastic change from how we viewed her originally. That’s what makes this scene disorienting.

[@OJeyjunior]

I remember this episode first season of The Walking Dead. They locked this poor guy because he was acting erratic one morning and everyone was kinda set off because he was catatonically digging graves even though everyone in the group was ok... eventually he came back to himself and they released him, just in time for a horde of walkers to attack the group causing major character deaths (including the guy himself), just to cut to him saying "now I remember why I had to dig"

[@Urankeksbaecker]

At the end of the video you mentioned having ideas for videos about how Martin writes children, as well as Arya and Tywin specifically. I'd be very interested to see these videos! Love your content!

[@gleejoons]

im already in love with your arcane videos it would be so cool to see you analyze the DHMIS series :D

[@Samantha-lp6kz]

i'd love to see more game of thrones related content !! how grrm wirtes kids sounds really interesting :)

[@Creaform003]

What about the anti-cursed scene? IE jinx vs echo on the bridge. A cursed scene works best in 3rd person limited where we are restrained to two methods of conveying information to the reader. Either we tell them something by grabbing their face and pointing it at the rifle on the wall, where all information is conveyed through "look at this, this is important, work out why!" and the alternative, where we see the traits of someone in an action scene, "look how high they can jump now"/"all that training payed off". A cursed scene seems to subvert this limited scope by settling the reader into an action scene, where all story is conveyed sub textually and then suddenly grabbing their view and dragging it away from the fight onto a particular detail. In the comedy routine. Him bombing is an action scene. He is fighting against the crowd and loosing. Jinx and Echo becomes a cursed scene, there is the setup, we see them rolling up their sleeves... And then we are seeing them playing as children. We thought it was going to be sub-textual primitive lizard brain but now we are receiving childhood memories. Just as we settle into the alternative we snap back to become the Anti-Cursed scene, where suddenly two characters having a conversation about their childhood becomes Echo brutally beating Jinx to death. Another great example of a cursed scene would be in the princess bridge. Inigo Montoya switches from physically killing his demon, to narratively doing so and breaking the entire movies tone in the process. "Give my father back you son of a bitch!"

[@schnee1]

Interesting, I definitely see the comparison with the jinx-ekko scene! I've had the category of "blessed scene" rolling around my head with the prime example as the train scene from spirited away, but I'd have to think if it's a true opposite to what I'm calling cursed (not that it has to be necessarily). But there's a definite category of "wonderfully magically out of place scenes" with a lot of the same elements here as the cursed scenes, except positive that I want to think into more. A less extreme (possible) example is the first time seeing the dinosaurs in jurassic park, and also idea of the sanctuary place scenes in the game Earthbound. Again, not sure if this is really the category, but something I want to think more on.

[@Creaform003]

@@schnee1 I like the name 'blessed' scene and will coin the phrase if you don't mind. They are definitely not opposites as they have more in common than they do with regular scenes. You could collectively refer to them as a 'Kanye Arc': "This fight scene is great and I'm going to let it finish, but Hodor's Arc is the most significant part of this eposide!"

[@sparo_art]

I was happy to see the Nina scene at the end, I was trying to see if it could categorize as one of these. Also, adventure time has had some pretty crushing stuff for me with Ice King... Thanks for the video, it was very interesting

[@kuraicraft]

Thanks I love these analysis/writing tutorial videos :Dc

[@kasra_mlg]

I still get goosebumps and tears in my eyes with Hodor and Powder scenes... such immense emotions

[@jamesabernethy7896]

New to your channel here, watching your Arcane / GOT analysis pieces. Well thought out and well presented. Just slow it down a little.

[@ScoundrelChestnut]

I'm excited if you're actually making a whole cursed scenes series, check twin peaks i would say cursed scenes is all around, the " how is Annie?" scene made me sit still unnerved for a while. the ending of sleepaway camp too, aughh i swear there's other scenes on my mind but i can't recall right now.

[@mongiwekhaya1201]

The first Act twist in CYBERPUNK 2077. You start with the idea of this being a fun shoot'em up game. Buy into your character and his bestfriend Jackie. And then you do the big job. And each time you think you know whats happening, you realize its so much worse and totally makes sense and totally confusing. Some serious science fiction there.

[@KodiKitten343]

A certain character's death from Better Call Saul's final season works perfectly as a "cursed" scene

[@dante93nero]

The problem with the Hodor scene is that it had immense potential and causality in the timeline of the show because, like some already said, you can kinda associate Bran with things like the Mad king saying burn them all on repeat. Bran could've been a show on it's own and they didn't know what to do with him and unfortunately what they did to him was such cancer that it blows my mind.

[@climax050]

The Hordor scene might be one of the most shocking and heart breaking moments in all of media. Mainly because as you pointed out, its alluded to and hinted at but it was so long and then they pulled that out, same with the monkey bomb, even the rocket at the end of Arcane got me feeling this. I hate this feeling, especially when its at the end of a season because then the credits roll and you just sit there, and its all you can think about for weeks. I usually feel really bad after finishing a show, usually i just want more and at some deep down level it upsets me that its over, and when you have a moment like these it makes it even worse. I would also argue there's varying degrees of this feeling, cliff hangers and where characters allude to more seasons in the future for me also give me this feeling. I don't know why but its like they give you this joy and happiness, and then strip it away when the show is over. For example, Wednesday is one of my favorite shows ever, and when it ends the way it did, with the "?" and the lead character with that little monologue it gave me this cursed feeling too, like this thing was so great and now its gone and I may have to wait years and years to see it again. I dislike that feeling, very much keeps me awake at night and affects my mood for like weeks afterward.

[@kellybastow1596]

Not sure if if counts as cursed but the dance scene in 'Ex Machina' was very jarring, funny and disturbing at the same time. Love your analysis!