Which would you choose a 38 hp or 50 hp for the Cal40?

[@tomcallahan3385]

Thanks for this - this added to the decision making for repowering my 42 Endeavour from a Perkins 4154 to a Beta 60 - It was just delivered today and in ready for install...i'm loving it.

[@ohanasailing1040]

Thanks. I've heard very good things about Beta Marine engines. I like the oil change pump built in and of course the red paint is cool.

[@surfguitar6041]

Like most comments below, I also think the 38HP would be plenty, and 200 lbs weight savings seems like a no brainer. We have a Westerbeke 42B (42 HP) in our Cal 40 Misirlou and it has plenty of kick even upwind in chop. Congrats on a great series! Can't wait to see the final result.

[@wilsnich02]

Thanks for sharing .... I really love the series and its a great show and tell about Schaefer Marine. We have had Beta and Nanni (also a Kubota Conversion) out here for a long time and they are excellent engines. I am looking at repowering my Carter 33 and will probably use a Beta because they are a good motor and our local Agent is very good. My boat currently has a 20 hp 3 cylinder Sole that has been an excellent engine and is just that perfect unit for power, weight, economy and size. All boats have that sweet spot or sweet size. I can repower with anything from a 20 hp to a 30 hp which wold probably be bit of an overkill...... the thing is the fitting is no more expensive for which ever option I go with as long (for me) as the shaft and prop remain unchanged. The cost of the motor between.... say a 22 hp and the 30 hp normally only cost another $6 to $800.There is very little real difference for the bigger motor and when I am are paying $12 to $14k supplied and fully fitted up, another $800 isn't much extra.So I need to look at the engines, how will they fit, the extra weight, accessibility between the engines etc as to which way I go as compared to just the extra HP. I am sure you know this already. In regards to the bigger motor running refrigeration... most units are electric now days as it is lighter, more efficient and a couple of 120 watt solar panels will probably generate enough power to stand alone run the unit.

[@osu3221]

Do they make a spring starter for these engines? Aftermarket?

[@marknaimo7359]

Good info gentleman Fred I would like to get an idea of what that 50 horsepower runs brand new out of the crate??? That way I'll get one for mine when the time comes.

[@sheldonmcclaflin8904]

Start calling Beta Marine dealers. Do you think Fred is paying full price for that Engine, Mast and Sails?

[@DonHarden]

I just wish that they would one more step forward and tell us what the pricing is going to be. if you are going to promote a project or an item what does it hurt to be honest about the cost involved and the cost comparisons with the different options?

[@passmeby9398]

Hey, Don. Just paid about $20k for the 43 Beta (38 HP). Had most of the mods done for a v-drive configuration. Price includes yard time and such. I removed the Perkins myself and am doing some of the other hook ups. Base price is around $16 K. Larger engine wasn't that much more if I remember correctly. I am about 40 ft too but decided against the larger engine for several reasons.

[@Coyotehello]

With that project 'money's no object' is obvious. Just in teak he blew what would be my budget for a complete restoration of a Cal 40. Beautiful.

[@patrickwentz8413]

What was the weight of the old engine? what is the weight of this engine? If the new engine is less than it is a win.

[@malcolmlowrey8128]

What transmission ratio do you have and what size prop? Were looking at a 38 or 43 for our Salthouse Cavalier 39 and would appreciate some perspective..

[@poche660]

Hi, unless you have a lot of overhead clearance how are you supposed to get the dipstick out? Why not have a bent tube leading somewhere in front? The air filter cover looks like flimsy plastic.

[@HirschfeldYachtLLCSausalito]

Hello, Sometimes that dip stick coming to the top of the engine can be a problem. In this case it is not. If you did have an application that this presented a problem with we can have it rerouted to a spot that works for you. Thanks for your comments.

[@queenofyeay]

According to Westerbeke Corporation's recommendations for sizing their engines they suggest 2hp per 1000 lbs of displacement for coastal cruising or 2.5 hp per 1000lbs for offshore cruisers... Your Cal 40, as designed, displaced 15,000 lbs so for inshore 30 hp, or 37.5 hp for offshore... Personally I usually think more hp is more better. But in this case the additional weight, fuel consumption, price, as well as the additional time needed to rebalance the boat for the much heavier engine than stock does not seem worthwhile. Isn't there some theoretical maximum hull speed calculations you can use to see if you can actually gain from that additional hp or simply be burning more fuel for little to no gain? This guy seems decent enough but he IS a salesman. 50hp seems like massive overkill, especially since you mentioned wanting to be racing your Cal 40 quite a bit, and making it as fast as possible under sail.

[@SailingOTR]

Boat manufacturers(no longer applicable in this case) and marine engine manufacturers love this stuff. Bigger motor = bigger profit for them. What no one talks about, if they even know, is that most sailboats when under power are performing as a displacement hull. To transmit the power available from the engine to the boat effectively is to use what is available efficiently. This requires a large diameter prop turning slowly. Prop shafts should never exceed 1,000 RPM. This means with most modern, lightweight industrial type engines used in marine applications those engines are designed to run at about 80% of maximum RPM for the normal life span of the engine. Many of these engines are designed to turn at a maximum of around 3,600 RPM. So 80% X 3,600 = 2,900 RPM. This requires a reduction ratio of 3:1 and that is something you will never see on any modern production sailboat. A 50HP engine is in effect delivering 150HP to the prop when put through a 3:1 reduction gear. Total nonsense and entirely unneeded. In the case of a Cal40 at 15,000lbs displacement a 30HP engine run through a 3:1 reduction gear should be able to turn an 18"diameter X 14"pitch three bladed prop easily. This should easily deliver a 5knot cruise speed very economically, a 6knot cruise speed somewhat economically and the power to push the boat at just about hull speed and against pretty significant wind and seas. More power does nothing against water current. Remember boat propellers on displacement hulls do not have any form of AI. All they can tell you is that if you want me to revolve at this speed, you must provide me with this much power. Generally speaking power comes from prop diameter, speed comes from prop pitch. Check out Skene's Elements of Yacht Design for the basic calculations.

[@MattBargain]

I also think 38 HP is more than enough. Modern cruiser boats with loads of comfort equipment have a ratio of 1 HP per foot. If you want to race the boat you want to save on weight as much as you can. Other than that this series is a dream for aficionados of classic boats. This thing will probably be worth $300K or more once it's finished. Worth it though!

[@Coyotehello]

Out of the 14 episode this is the only one where I disagree. 220lb. I would have chosent the 38hp. One hp per feet is a standard, it used to be one hp per displacement/tonnage, that would have put the Cal40 with a 15hp. I do not buy the argument that you need a bigger engine to run your fridge while underway, If you 'desperately' need to charge your battery banks you do it while at anchor or while sailing engine running with the gear in neutral. Love your project! ... And Shaffer is my recommended product for most of my clients.

[@spoonamore]

Great series. Just watched parts of each episode up to this one. This is the first one with odd advice. A 50hp in a CAL40? How will they fit that, or will they give up on fitting it. 38 is plenty of diesel. Or should have gone electric drive and used all that well space on top of the keel for AGM batts. Save 220#+. And my basic math skills show a well faired bottom should hit hull speed with either 38 or 50.

[@SailingOTR]

Boat manufacturers(no longer applicable in this case) and marine engine manufacturers love this stuff. Bigger motor = bigger profit for them. What no one talks about, if they even know, is that most sailboats when under power are performing as a displacement hull. To transmit the power available from the engine to the boat effectively is to use what is available efficiently. This requires a large diameter prop turning slowly. Prop shafts should never exceed 1,000 RPM. This means with most modern, lightweight industrial type engines used in marine applications those engines are designed to run at about 80% of maximum RPM for the normal life span of the engine. Many of these engines are designed to turn at a maximum of around 3,600 RPM. So 80% X 3,600 = 2,900 RPM. This requires a reduction ratio of 3:1 and that is something you will never see on any modern production sailboat. A 50HP engine is in effect delivering 150HP to the prop when put through a 3:1 reduction gear. Total nonsense and entirely unneeded. In the case of a Cal40 at 15,000lbs displacement a 30HP engine run through a 3:1 reduction gear should be able to turn an 18"diameter X 14"pitch three bladed prop easily. This should easily deliver a 5knot cruise speed very economically, a 6knot cruise speed somewhat economically and the power to push the boat at just about hull speed and against pretty significant wind and seas. More power does nothing against water current. Remember boat propellers on displacement hulls do not have any form of AI. All they can tell you is that if you want me to revolve at this speed, you must provide me with this much power. Generally speaking power comes from prop diameter, speed comes from prop pitch. Check out Skene's Elements of Yacht Design for the basic calculations.

[@karlberardi4351]

Thank you for that. Up here in the Northeast there are mill buildings that have been restored and a few have their original plants displayed. These massive engines only put out 10 or so horsepower. This is a poor analog, I know , but marine literature is loaded with descriptions of famous auxiliaries with small engines. So, in short, it’s not what you’ve got, it’s how you use it.

[@conniefontenot2793]

Rust on the dipstick ? Hmmm

[@drainmonkeys385]

I want that engine for a high pressure jetter trailer build I have in mind...it would run a high pressure sewer jetter, Probable a cat pump world AR pump.. maybe even 2 of them, plus vacuum pump, and a generator .... lol

[@wwindsunrain]

That guy is right the larger engine would be nicer. Beta Marine give higher hp ratings than Kubota. Kubota doesn't even rate them at the speed that Beta does. These engines are going to be very noisy at 3600 RPM and since this is way past their peak torque RPM, use a lot of fuel too. The Beta 38 is a Kubota V1505, which Kubota lists with maximum 24.8 hp at 2300 RPM. You and your engine are going to be a lot happier at 2300 rpm. The Beta 50 is a Kubota 2303, which puts out around 32 HP at 2300 rpm, a nice match for this boat.

[@AndysEastCoastAdventures]

38hp would be more than adequate. no point in larger engine as boat will go no faster than displacement speed anyways. Even a 38 would be pushing you along not much over tickover most of the time.

[@mazdarx7887]

The motor sellers try to get you to buy a much bigger motor than you need. They try to get you to believe that you need more alternators to charge house batteries. House batteries kill alternators. It's the same as you car when you install monster sound-systems. Alternators are not designed for such large loads. But the dealers will never tell you that, they just sell you another alternator ever year or two

[@HirschfeldYachtLLCSausalito]

Hello, thanks for your comment. I did originally recommend the 38. You are correct that the boat will only go through the water so fast. However when you factor in a big head wind, waves and chop coming at you, having the reserve power available to you is very beneficial and usable if you have a propeller that will support it. We talked about running refrigeration compressors and second alternators which is why we ended up with the 50 hp engine. Also FYI the Beta 43, 50 and 60 hp engines are all the same size. I like the go pro vid! Have fun out there.

[@AndysEastCoastAdventures]

If their the same size then yes your right the more hp the better, Normally big weight gains with diesels going up in HP but it sounds like the 43's are just downgraded 60's

[@Doug-tc2px]

Having a properly size engine for the intend load is critical to the longevity of a diesel engine, as stated the intention is to use the extra power to drive a secondary alternator. Because the owner wants to go racing for a few years then switch to cruising he may be better off with the smaller motor and finding an alternative source of power generation down the road.

[@mazdarx7887]

Doug ! Lots of cruisers rely on small Honda 2000 generators and solar , some even have wind generators too keep their house batteries up. You can talk to people and read blogs, you'll find lots of people sourcing alternators and why they have to replace them often. Besides why run the main motor when you can do the same on a generator with less fuel and lower initial costs. hehehe, your comfortably sailing along at 6 to 8 knots in nice winds, but you have to start your main to charge your house batteries

[@michaelbrownlee9497]

Would of went with an even smaller motor than the smaller one shown.. The led lighting system is a miser on power. Would of spent the weight increase in refrigeration, water maker, hot water on demand and increased battery storage. He's gonna add them on eventually anyways, and it would be a much lighter boater, the extra battery Banks could be removed and reinstalled just for the offshore use. 200 pound increase in a sailboat he plans to race? Then he spends a shit load of dough on state of the art sails. Total logic fail. My guess is he's thinking the added HP is for safety in rough weather, which is good.

[@EL90291]

Sales man....sure the most expensive is better........

[@chrisbeavitt7127]

The salesman does not know his product.... All he wants is a sale.

[@erikwahlstrom976]

This video starts badly. You go to an engine dealer and ask him: "Do you recommend the expensive engine, or the even more expensive engine?" Do you really think he might answer: "The expensive engine would be ideal for you. I don't recommend the even more expensive engine. It would be overkill. It is bigger, heavier, it consumes more fuel and it costs more." If you really think he might answer that you're living in la-la-land. Please delete this video, it is just marketing, and do a really useful video with a neutral expert who is not trying to sell an engine to you.

[@kriiigern777]

You are an idiot. You know how much about selling engines? It is bigger so it is more expensive... He does not make more money from it. He is making sure the client is happy with the right choice. He might even make more on the smaller ones, as they sell more often. So he gets better prices. Typisk svensk idiot er du! ;)

[@mazdarx7887]

200 #s extra weight plus more expensive and no extra speed and more fuel usage. The future is solar for your power. Alternators fail because of over loading with the exception of age. I just changed the alternator on my car at 15 years old. Do you want to start your motor just to charge your house batteries? Do you want to take up more room in the engine bay? Unless your the exception, you will install solar anyway. Go with the smaller motor that will drive the boat and solar for everything else. As for air conditioning, you don't need a power hungry compressor.

[@SVELFARO]

Its a fair size boat, you need the propulsion power to do the bash.

[@mazdarx7887]

Originally they had 25 to 30 hp engines which pushed them along nicely. The 38 would be sufficient. But since they got money to burn, they may as well get the bigger heaver motor and build a bigger engine room to work on it. Unless they are going to use a bigger prop than what they would use on the 38, there will be no speed increase. When at anchor and you house batteries get low, do you want to start the noisy main engine or a nice quiet Honda generator. If at a marina you will plug in and no need to start any motor.

[@SVELFARO]

Yes I agree if your only going to do races locally the smaller lighter engine is what I would do, but if the end game is to take it places its nice to have the power, and yes if your going to cruise eventually a little genny and as pointed out solar is the way to go now. and a wind generator

[@HirschfeldYachtLLCSausalito]

There are arguments to both sides here. As a sailor and someone who has spent a lot of time offshore, it is nice to be able to charge your batteries quickly if at anchor. Starting and running your engine for an hour or 2 a day is pretty common practice depending on how much power you are using. I do agree that solar is getting better and better but still slow to replenish and if you are exceeding what is being generated by the solar panels then at some point you will run out of power. This is where the large alternators and controllers come in. Power demand will dictate the system required.

[@HirschfeldYachtLLCSausalito]

You nailed it. If you have the bigger prop then you can use the power and it will shine when heading up wind in to large seas.