Schindler CLOCKWORK TIMER, plus what does 'this' do? (interesting motor device!)

[@paulh5293]

Fabulous detail - especially on the star-delta switching. Interestingly, some church pipe organs use a switch powered by the rising of the wind reservoirs to switch the fan blowers from star to delta for the same sort of reason - i.e. only when the wind pressure is stable. I've worked with digital electronics and software for >40 years now but there's no character to a microcontroller like there is with pure mechanical switching. This stuff is just amazing. Thanks for posting Matt.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Interesting about the church pipe organs, never really considered this would have some kind of motor system. Looks like we're on the same page with microprocessor controllers verses mechanical, mechanic logic is far more interesting to watch! Thanks for the comment.

[@Xyphurr]

That centrifugal switch is actually quite clever. From a layman's view, I would've thought one would've overcome the power draw by adding another lower-power motor to get it going first, but by using a centrifugal switch to change between star and delta configurations, you change the main motor to _become_ that starter motor. Less parts to fail, less cost, less complexity. Electromechanical systems are so fascinating. Plus all the logic performed by _physically moving components_ instead of things like PLCs. Really impressive, the work that went into these. (Also been looking into old electromechanical telephone switches. Those are awesome as well. Found I have a museum close by, by their KZbin channel, Connections Museum. Also reminds me of the old jukebox that Technology Connections had a look at, with the floor selection logic likely being similar to the disk selection logic.)

[@SeanBZA]

I had a motor where the original installer had miswired it. Start in delta, and switch to star. no wonder the machine tended to pull itself out of the bolts holding it to the floor. Solved that, and later on replaced the motor as well, because a stuck contactor meant it ran missing a phase, and the installer had also broken the overload unit, as it would trip, so they simply jammed it closed forever. New motor, and also moved controller into a sealed cabinet for good measure, and removed that entire star delta switching as well, with it getting a slow start unit instead, set for 30 seconds ramp up rate as well, because of the large inertia of the moving parts. 8kW motor, all 130kg of it was difficult to remove by hand, so installed a hook eye in the roof (300mm concrete slab) with M12 anchor bolt additionally braced in with epoxy, and that gave enough to allow removal of motor and later gearbox. Had to install the same later on the other side, to allow fixing of the other side, hard to move a massive V blender without that.

[@andrewrussack8647]

The mechanical relays, timers and meters of yesteryear were an incredible blend of mechanical and electrical engineering and art!

[@cstemshorn]

Your videos are a large reason I decided to get into the industry. We are in a pretty large city across the pond and the only company that still repairs old machines so I see machines that are upwards of 60 years old on almost a daily basis. Love seeing the unique stuff you have going on over there.

[@fabiolmfonseca5961]

Hello mrmattandmrchay. It's good to see you again. Another old lift that is a true electromechanical jewel. Thank you for the information and explanation of how it works.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Thank you very much for the nice comment :)

[@juandasilva9226]

Another amazing old fantastic Schindler Lift. I learn too much here. And, always the quality of editing and the cameras shoot.

[@mrclucker1969]

You can’t beat the mechanical systems for character - much more interesting to watch and listen to. Thank you for your usual high standard and attention to detail - it’s the next best thing to being there in person.

[@Aawsomeguy]

MrMattandMrChay Great to see you uploading You Tube videos again. We here in You Tube land missed you.

[@dubsydubs5234]

That was a very up lifting video, my opinion of you has been elevated.

[@ianchapman9585]

I like the way you explain how it works, with the way it’s wired up very interesting keep showing videos.

[@RODALCO2007]

Another top-quality video with exceptional detail and superb editing. That Ghielmetti clockwork timer is unique. They make also very good quality time switches. Keep up the excellent videos. Thanks again.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Ah, I didn't know those timers had a specific name. This is the excellent thing about youtube, everyday is a learning day! Thanks for your kind comments also.

[@RODALCO2007]

@@mrmattandmrchay You are one of my favorite channels on KZbin as you have excellent details of the lift equipment and sirens. kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5bEZ6mLjapjd6cfeature=shared Hope the link works. This is of one of those Ghielmetti clocks.

[@ArthursLiftAdventures]

Really interesting good detailed video thanks for sharing Matt!

[@marcomommsen1971]

Another great and special video from you. Thank you for your time and effort. It turned out great again.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Ah brilliant, thanks for the nice comment

[@brucekoch3361]

Wonderful video! Clear, descriptive and thorough content! I only wish that I had your videos when I was an apprentice!!

[@ElevatorExploration]

But it's absolutely awesome, you were able to film one of the rare examples of a simultaneous multi-floor selection controller that is NOT a Schindler POP-OUT :D I uploaded a similar elevator with the same operation as the one shown in your video that serves 11 floors. These elevators are even rarer than those with simple relay control, plus the one you filmed has buttons that light up in the cabin, it may be the very last one of its kind in Switzerland. Thank you very much for this magnificent video :D

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Thank you very much for the nice comment. Actually, I was very surprised, that these are not as rare as you think in Switzerland (if you know where to look!)

[@HelloKittyFanMan]

Wow, these elevator videos are quite interesting; thank you!

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Thanks for the comment and for watching :)

[@HelloKittyFanMan]

@@mrmattandmrchay: Heheh, you're welcome. But the _real_ credit goes to you for being able to talk managers into giving you physical access BtS of these so we can have A/V access--and then doing a great job with giving us this access!

[@milolouis]

Congratulation for getting on Hackaday. You've been making such high quality videos all this time.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Thank you very much. I did have a look on hackaday but didn't find anything, could you please tell me where I appear? (A URL maybe?) Thank you!

[@quantumleap359]

Very well done video. The centrifugal flyball speed switch reminded me of the switch inside split phase motors. Thanks for your videos.

[@38911bytefree]

Schindler always comes with nice ideas !!!!. Great vid !!!!. Thanks

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Love schindler kit - always unique and interesting to watch and film.

[@4WDAUTO-y8o]

Love the effort that you put into editing these videos

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Thank you :)

[@christopher-2000]

awesome lift video

[@liftguy30]

In the setup data the device is called a centrifugal switch, we still have a few in NZ with both the mechanical timers and the motorised brake. The two I have worked on with AC drives were to bridge the starting resistors (not star delta), on their DC gearless machines they had a motorised potentiometer feeding a saturable reactor and a pair of centrifugal switches to prove the lift was below terminal speed as it crossed the terminal limits at each end of the shaft, they were very difficult to calibrate accurately, the motor on rope hitch looks odd and is probably for fine levelling adjustment.😢

[@kc0eks]

That was annawesome video and appreciate the visuals to understand how this works. As always top notch videos

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Thank you very much Kc0eks!

[@brunoais]

Another excellent video! Thank you!

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Thank you

[@jupieterr]

Always great to see another one of your videos pop up :D

[@mrmattandmrchay]

It's why I make these videos, to read comments like this one :)

[@ANDREWWALLFORD123]

Great this on video thought... Be careful to access machinery placed up there in the elevator, buddy.

[@StrawberrySunday212]

Excellent as always. I love the time you take to explain things. I have a dumb question to ask. The "big Wheel" does that take the weight of the lift and passengers? Also, it never occurred to me that the lights in the lift shut off when not in use. I thought they stayed on all the time. 🤦🏼‍♀

[@MichalM]

Fascinating systems there! Amazing to see this still running - I take it this isn't the UK? Don't all lifts get excited when they stop on inspection mode?

[@TheRailroad99]

Its Germany I think (or at least a German speaking country)

[@mrmattandmrchay]

This one gets excited on EVERY journey haha! It's Switzerland - lot of lifts like this one left over there.

[@AdolfZachrisson]

a lift with personality!

[@bertspeggly4428]

Great stuff, many thanks!

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Thank you too.

[@jix177]

Great video, your animations are getting better all the time. 10:22 I wonder what little grey rod between 'P' and '1' is for. Could it be some sort of thermal/fire safety cutout which melts above a certain temperature? Thanks for the vid.

[@LuigiElettrico]

Nice machinery

[@Petertronic]

Fantastic lift again, love the chunky floor selector, and the way almost everything is open and accessible for servicing. Another Swiss (?) one, have you left the UK? 😄

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Thanks Peter, yeah it's Swiss. Still some more videos to come from here :)

[@ajs2120]

Excellent video as always, I've got a few more of yours to catch up on. At 03:10 it almost sounds a bit like the old Tesco Trislot motors starting up, they really were something else.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Yeah I see what you mean at 3:10. Thanks for the comment.

[@HelloKittyFanMan]

2:32: "Oh, I didn't know old elevators used hard disk drives before personal computers did! 😆"

[@sitsing]

I am the second one. Interesting Schindler lift.

[@LawpickingLocksmith]

Real interesting, something built with precession to last. If you would like to see a real dodgy lift, visit the Lake view hotel in Pushkar India.

[@beefchicken]

It has never occurred to me that the lights could be shut off when the lift is idle… is this true for modern lifts too?

[@pineappleroad]

Yes

[@Techno-Universal]

It’s also very common in modern lifts in residential buildings.

[@eldoradoboy]

I work in hotels.. we do a lot of work with the phone systems.. ive had ot before where I was steady enough inside a car that the unit became idle and the lights turned off while I was inside... on a modern (elevator .. im in the US).. theres motion sensors and its all done with a computer... on these old ones they would not have any idea if someone stayed behind in the car.. ive never ridden one here n the US.. even an old one that didnt have an inner set of doors.. a couple real old cargo units i rode had manual inner doors so you had to close them yourself to go.. but there were switches that stopped the motion abruptly if you opened it too soon and the outer door would not open until it reached the proper level. even the units in older hotels here have been retrofitted to electronic timing and fewer physical relays..

[@mrmattandmrchay]

For old lifts, it was to save power and more importantly to make the lamps last longer. If the lamps were kept on 24hours, they'd all be blown and people wouldn't be able to use the lift as it would be completely dark inside. Modern day lifts use LED lighting (low power) and they don't really 'blow' like the old ones, so not so important. But as others have said, if you were to be inside the cab they probably DO go out even in modern day lifts (each to do via a relay and the controller).

[@Techno-Universal]

@@mrmattandmrchay Often they even had pressure plate floors in old lifts to operate the lights so the lights would only turn on when someone is standing in the lift! It was also common practice back then for security/building management in large commercial office buildings to manually turn the lift lights off in the evening when the building closes and to manually turn them on when the building opens in the morning but they would otherwise stay on all day non stop.

[@n5sdm]

Damn. That thing needs a light curtain.

[@keddesdk]

I just entered a new rapithole 😂😂. Damm it is interesting

[@sictransitgloriamundi230]

Erstaunlich, dass dieser Lift noch betrieben werden darf. Er scheint keinen Lichtvorhang zu haben.

[@bezare9728]

The best safety-device is: use your brain! (-:

[@mrmattandmrchay]

@@bezare9728 haha!! I think people in Switzerland have a lot of common sense, to stand back from the doors when the lift is moving!

[@MCPicoli]

What is the function of the diode bank shown at the end? Diode logic?

[@therobloxkid9987]

YO I FOUND A SIREN IN THE FORTH 48 b715 brown &wilson steels

[@VOLTRONDEFENDER4440]

thats a unique elevator

[@mrmattandmrchay]

It's really cool isn't it!

[@VOLTRONDEFENDER4440]

@@mrmattandmrchay yup

[@ElevatorServiceCroatia]

very beautiful can you come croatia to record old končar elevator

[@lukasgirling5673]

Star-Delta switching is not for different speeds. This motor is most likely a Dahlander type: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahlander_pole_changing_motor

[@HelloKittyFanMan]

"Cheap" wouldn't have always accurately described electronic timers though. Because they were a lot _more_ expensive than these right when the electronic ones came out, weren't they? Isn't that what happens with new technology: it's still the more expensive option when it's super new?

[@VintageLiftLad]

I guess you could say this lift....runs like clockwork.....I'll get my coat haha

[@mr._vico]

Hi Mr. Matt and Mr. Chay! Are you interested in a slightly modernized 1962 OTIS lift? If yes then come to Copenhagen, Denmark If not, well ok then By the way I don’t own the lift

[@HelloKittyFanMan]

"Star/delta is very important to get an AC motor turning." No, only a _3-phase_ AC motor (or BLDC motor, maybe).

[@mrmattandmrchay]

I'm not sure that I need to go into too much detail about star-delta. Just as long as people get the general idea, which then helped explain the next part with the speed switch.

[@HelloKittyFanMan]

@@mrmattandmrchay: I'm just saying that FFR you might replace "AC" with "3-phase," as a matter of clarification that it doesn't apply to other motors. Like it doesn't apply to the ones in our homes, etc. (1P and standard DC).

[@littlepastelkitten]

if titanic hadnt sunk, id be interested in the lifts on her, I imagine they were pretty neat given age

[@rizkyp]

Fum fact, Kia EV9 uses on the fly delta, star motor configuration configured by the inverter.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

interesting!

[@DandyDon1]

Are there any warnings written anywhere to warn passengers about the moving doors as the elevator moves up or down?

[@DandyDon1]

I'm also curious as to the maker of the slave clock on the wall near the elevator. If in fact it is a slave clock attached to central clock system.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

I don't really see this in Switzerland anywhere. Also, the voice announcements like "ground floor, doors opening...". They seem to be a lot more traditional.

[@kenan763]

Hello Mrmatt, I always like your videos but I think this is not star delta, this is switching from 4 pole through 2 pole windings. Because in star delta configuration, motor gives less torque on star connection to prevent huge start up currents, meanwhile motor cannot turn with load, motor must be unloaded when starting with star connection. Also motor speed doesn't change between star and delta steps, just gives higher torque on delta connection. After switching to delta, motor can be loaded(for example jaw crusher) But in this lift motor constantly loaded, it needs higher torque for starting, then needs higher speed just like car gears. Also there must be a contactor which three terminals shorted by a copper bar or wire for star connection, I can't see that contactor at 12:25 Because of that I don't think this is not star delta configuration.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

This is a very interesting comment and thank you very much for it. Yes, makes perfect sense. Please correct me if I'm wrong, the pole changing system (i.e. why it goes from slow to fast) is an extension of the star-delta system? i.e. from what I'm reading in the 'Dahlander pole changing motor' in wikipedia, the star delta system still exists, but the pole changing motor system gives you better scope to vary the power and speed?

[@gavincurtis]

13:52 is the system ROM?

[@janetcohen9190]

🎉🎉🎉😊

[@paulstubbs7678]

Nice all the works exposed, rather than buried in a plc etc.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Absolutely, I'm with you there!

[@pianoman4Jesus]

Seems sort of dangerous by current standards to have the inside of the elevator chamber wiz by as the elevator moves from floor to floor! What was the purpose of the Diodes at @12:58?

[@mrmattandmrchay]

I think, 'today's standards' appeal to countries where people purposely injure themselves to get a 'no win, no fee' insurance payout. It then means the building owner has to fix their lifts to stop people doing what more people would consider comment sense :) In Switzerland, I believe people understand to keep away from the doors whilst it's moving. The diodes are for the logic circuits. For example, when you press a call button, the voltage feeds through the button and into the logic circuits and relays. The diodes prevent the voltage feeding back into other logic circuits. It's a bit complicated to explain without diagrams, but that's just a basic explaination. I'm assuming there is one per floor for the landing calls, and more for the car calls. Just the design I guess. You could probably omit the diodes, but then you'd be fitting more relays to stop the voltage in the same way. Also, if the relays are DC, then some of them connect across the coil to prevent the relay coil surge when it switches off, but in theory, they should be connected directly to the coil (if this is what they're for), not away from it.

[@pianoman4Jesus]

@@mrmattandmrchay Diodes preventing cross singling is sufficient description.... I know what is schematically meant. Thank you. (I recall from the Five Ways Towers videos that had DTL logic. So was wondering if this had a mix of DTL with relays.)

[@gamingit1]

415v voltage for 3 phase? As i know it is 380-400v

[@scowell]

Love these old elevators... getting rid of the door mechanism must make it cheaper and simpler. Would this be a normal passenger lift, or only for commercial use?

[@Mezgrman]

It says "Warenaufzug" which is German for "freight elevator" :)

[@eldoradoboy]

@@Mezgrman here in the US ive ridden freight elevators in hotels as recently as last year that still had manual interior doors.. I havent seen any which lacked interior doors altogether, they were like half height doors and then caged at the top so you could see the floors going by . they had a very slow travel speed.. ive not seen any true passenger elevators in the US without full interior doors. not even in the oldest of hotels I work in..even the crew elevators all have full interior doors.. im guess we may have units similar but they were pron retrofitted at some point.

[@quantumleap359]

@@Mezgrman Thank you. I was thinking freight elevator but was not sure.

[@Jimmycrops89]

Will there be an return for the alarm videos m8 ?

[@mrmattandmrchay]

I do have some detector videos (still have the Racal Gemini video to upload), but when I DO upload them, I get negative comments because people want lift videos - therefore I'm prioritising them. It's like I should start a separate channel for alarm stuff, but I really don't want to do that. It's a difficult one. At the moment I have so many interesting lift videos to upload, I'm really just concentrating on editing those.

[@hariranormal5584]

There's some inaccuracy in the video. The schlinders don't use delta starts

[@AK-vx4dy]

Why main wheel is not solid but cut and connected with screws ?

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Good question. It could be said for ALL wheels, like on vehicles. Educated guesses - Some of them are constructed in pieces, and makes it easier to put them together with bolts. 2) Weight - a solid piece of metal would be more difficult to install and would take more power to bring to a halt due to it's momentum.

[@AK-vx4dy]

@@mrmattandmrchay this is somewhat different, but maybe reason is for diffrent sizes or materials? I thought it some special elevators feature like vibration damping or some thing

[@HelloKittyFanMan]

So "door timer" is in quotation marks because... that's supposed to just be figurative instead of literal, or...?

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Because it doesn't look like a conventional timer. It's more of a few bars and air-chambers that have been used to create one.

[@HelloKittyFanMan]

@@mrmattandmrchay: But what I mean is: It REALLY IS the door timer, right? So you don't need to put that in quotes as if to say, "This isn't _really_ the door timer; that's just what we _call_ it." Right?

[@LinuxWindowsMacHilfe]

A wo steht der den.

[@levigaming-1]

Just letting you know the cs8 in carstairs junction died the solarnoids work but the motor is a no go

[@mrmattandmrchay]

There's going to become a time when they're all replaced. They can't keep these going forever, can they...!? It will be a shame when they do though, love the old motor-driven sirens!

[@HelloKittyFanMan]

"This... seconds"?

[@mrmattandmrchay]

?

[@HelloKittyFanMan]

@@mrmattandmrchay !

[@Tigrou7777]

14:00 why is there a need to have some many diodes ?

[@allmycircuits8850]

Looks like they are connected parallel to each relay coil to prevent inductive spike when coil is de-energized.

[@Tigrou7777]

@@allmycircuits8850 that perfectly make sense. Thanks.

[@georgacher7889]

Looks like some "discrete" decoder, eg. mapping/combining the stored calls for the up/down indicator lamps in each level or so. Induction voltage killing is not very likely as a) the old electro mechanical stuff has no issues with that and b) you would attach the diodes near the coils and not so far away where the effect is dampened.

[@eldoradoboy]

im guessing at least some are snubbers to lengthen the life of the relays from the inductive load arc when the relay releases

[@mrmattandmrchay]

(this is a copy/paste from someone else who asked the same question) The diodes are for the logic circuits. For example, when you press a call button, the voltage feeds through the button and into the logic circuits and relays. The diodes prevent the voltage feeding back into other logic circuits. It's a bit complicated to explain without diagrams, but that's just a basic explaination. I'm assuming there is one per floor for the landing calls, and more for the car calls. Just the design I guess. You could probably omit the diodes, but then you'd be fitting more relays to stop the voltage in the same way. Also, if the relays are DC, then some of them connect across the coil to prevent the relay coil surge when it switches off, but in theory, they should be connected directly to the coil (if this is what they're for), not away from it.

[@TheOfficialDorianelevator]

oh boy im the first commenter

[@mrmattandmrchay]

yep, you're first!

[@TheOfficialDorianelevator]

@@mrmattandmrchay atleast, im not one of these spammer kids that say "first !!1!1" and nothing else, otherwhise you may have also noticied i am subscribed because of course, you make quality vids (duh), otherwhise i am watching this entire video.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

@@TheOfficialDorianelevator Thanks very much! I don't get too many 'first' messages. To be honest, I used to delete them (especially as it seemed to be a theme on someone else's channel, that I didn't want it copied on my channel - I don't want ANY connection with that other channel). But then I had a rethink - if people really value my videos and are happy when they see it first and comment as such, then it's a POSITIVE thing :)

[@TheOfficialDorianelevator]

@@mrmattandmrchay it sure is a positive thing, and indeed, i watched the entire video.

[@Iowa599]

Like a flyball governor with no balls... Female speed switch?

[@mrmattandmrchay]

haha! Yes maybe!