Schluter KERDI/ALL-SET vs. Laticrete HYDRO BAN SHEET MEMBRANE/MULTIMAX LITE --- Glass Box Testing

[@pjathytoutai8359]

It’s great to see the All-Set install held up!

[@RaulCojocariu]

Feel much better now, i just finished a shower with kerdi and all set. Thanks for the good video as always and great job schluter as well for improving.

[@reeeno4012]

That's awesome you used Schluter Kerdi and all set on your shower! It however is not thanks to Schluter they still recommend to use unmodified thinset as part of their waterproofing system. Isn't that crazy?!

[@RaulCojocariu]

@@reeeno4012 yes its pretty bonkers how they market their product. I don't even know why they keep it cuz I don't see its purpose beside the all set. But my main tile setter is Tri-lite from Laticrete , I think its all around-der the best on the market and I tried all the popular brands. All set I use only when i do a complete Schluter system for lifetime warranty.

[@paulrichardson5309]

Hey Reno, in your opinion do you feel that the schlueter shower system is good or would you do a mortar bed w/pre slop and PVC liner ?? Thanks

[@reeeno4012]

@@paulrichardson5309 kzbin.info/www/bejne/iXvPaH6kp8ytbrc Check out this video from the tile coach himself. I completely agree with him in that video or using modified thinset just like he did in this is acceptable too

[@reeeno4012]

@@paulrichardson5309 I would use hydro ban membrane if you have it locally because of how easy it is to work with. I prefer to not use shower pan PVC liners though when possible but if it's the only thing available locally then I'll use it begrudgingly

[@alexfreire5656]

So they created a new thinset because of your video, that's amazing

[@Colin-fg3ei]

Highly respect the effort and honesty that you put into all your videos.

[@MarkFauntleroy]

I've watched a lot of your videos and this one has restored confidence in my plan to use a sheet membrane sealed system in my shower Reno. Thanks.

[@juniorprovencher6832]

👍👍 up Isaac those 2 companies must be so glad to see this because they do flood test for only 48 hours.

[@face2faceyouth]

That’s impressive. I just came back from a 2 day schluter class. Whether you like them or not, I recommend you go. They pay for everything, so you get a little two day vacation, but they give some really good info.

[@TileCoach]

Yes, I’ve been.

[@cameronmurray8432]

You should do a test with the hrydroban liquid membrane, thats what we use in australia. We use their sika flex on all internal & external corners and wall sheet joins and against all the the aluminium shower and door angles (if its a bedded and no recessed shower). We also use a primer on everything that is to be water proofed, we also apply waterproofing membrane bandage but only when there is cracks, cuts or joins in the floor substrate. Then 2 coats of the hydroban letting it completely dry between coats

[@bretburt7317]

The glass box tests are the ultimate for testing various products! Awesome.

[@Aepek]

Appreciate the time of these tests, and glad Schluter came out here in states with there own modified all set, cuz w/ it….it works; who’d of guessed😉. It’s nice to see brands actually changing procedures when things “don’t work”….even if they kinda don’t admit as to why, imo. Thx Isaac, have a good one bro✌🏻

[@TileCoach]

Yes, learn and grow! BTW "grow" is our company word of the week!

[@nolansmokes]

After all of those failed schluter videos I was considering completely changing plans for waterproofing

[@HD-ls5qv]

Great video..now I know what works best for me…for my jobs..thanks..

[@LosDog14]

When it comes to shower systems, one that I’ve used the most but cannot stand is Kerdi. It easily comes in dead last. I’ve installed hundreds of showers over the last 28 years and I’m so glad we are finally eliminating Kerdi Crap.

[@tehsimo]

What do you prefer?

[@crash6674]

Nice, im doin a shower and paid the extra for the all-set, glad i did... stuff was super hard to find and Schluter wanted 300 bucks shipping for 10 bags though lol

[@LionHeartOG]

It must be a regional thing cuz I can find all set at my distributor every single time But hardly ever see them have set on hand.

[@alexmanns9658]

All-set has a resistance to moisture, I noticed when passing my sponge over dried areas. For this reason I only use all-set when using schluter for a shower build. Mapei’s Lft has a similar response as well.

[@oldguy1960]

Thanks coach! This is so awesome you keep checking products.

[@vegasmooch]

8:24 Isaac, if you ever perform this test again, please use a moisture meter on the dark spots to be more conclusive on whether it's wet or not.

[@RayDelashmutt]

As Jeff Foxworthy would say... "Heres your sign" literally and figuratively in this case. No need for a moisture meter... Dark Gray spots are penetatrition of water, with a 100% moisture rating

[@pauldoyley8354]

How did the corners on the Laticrete perform? Thanks for doing the video! You planned and executed a very practical and educational test.

[@TileCoach]

Laticrete performed slightly better.

[@stevemullen8457]

This is such an important test, you're the best.

[@creedbarnett4948]

Isaac, great video! Would love to have seen the tear out on the hydroban though. Did multimax lite provide the same tenacity as all set?

[@TileCoach]

Yes, similar results...slightly less wicking.

[@creedbarnett4948]

Cool, thanks. I've used both and feel like multimax lite is able to provide less build-up, but both have an unbelievable grab!

[@ilou224]

Do you mix multimax lite following directions or do you mix it thinner? I keep hearing that the recommended amount of water is not enough.

[@shaunjones3429]

This was a great test with the clear boxes and two major brands. Your videos are a major influence on me remodeling my bathroom and and tiling my shower. I have been watching your videos and taking notes. I appreciate what your doing thanks brotha. Shaun Manteca ca.

[@TileCoach]

Awesome! Thank you!

[@KJV1611AV]

why didn't you show the laticrete tearout ?

[@donaldadams4713]

Hey Isaac another great video. When are you going to give us a tour of your shop and showroom?

[@TileCoach]

Very soon!

[@mattjennell85]

Great video, is there a video on Laticrete Sheet Membrane vs Laticrete Liquid Membrane?

[@mattmo91]

I’ve learned a ton from your videos…thank you! I just finished waterproofing my shower with Kerdi and All-Set and had been worried after seeing your other flood test with the unmodified thinset that failed. I bought a gallon of hydro ban to seal the joints on the kerdi-band and corners. In your opinion, is there any downside to applying the hydro ban over the kerdi seams/joints?

[@mond0133]

No not at all👍🏽

[@billymacktexasdetective5827]

You nuked the warranty. And you wasted time and perfectly good money on a completely unnecessary step...

[@mattmo91]

@@billymacktexasdetective5827 good luck getting Schluter to pony up for a warranty claim as a homeowner install anyway.

[@billymacktexasdetective5827]

@@mattmo91 What experience do you have with that situation?

[@billymacktexasdetective5827]

@@mattmo91 And can you please point out where in their warranty it states homeowner installed kerdi isn't eligible for a claim? All I see is that it must be installed properly, I don't see where it states a licensed tile installer must do it to be eligible. Thanks.

[@trevenkeeler7255]

One of the product lines we use where I live is goboard by Johns Manville. I would really appreciate and value your opinion on their foam board, wedge pan system, and drain kit. Also thanks for a great comparison on this necessary topic.

[@kevinkalthoff8083]

Keep up the great work and informative videos. You're doing an awesome with these

[@TileCoach]

Thanks, will do!

[@amattson6578]

Great idea using the glass box for your test

[@TileCoach]

Thank you!

[@rickdefalco1676]

Love that saying I ware that shirt all the time and people ask about it and I tell them my friend Isaac sent it to me and I live by it. It’s not just about the money relationships are the most important thing in your life

[@mattmason7554]

I hope your getting some $$$ for all this work. Get sponsored!!!! Invaluable information.

[@TileCoach]

Corporate marketing strategists count on the short attention span of us humans. They figure we will just forget about the 20 years that they preached unmodified before they came out with their OWN highly modified thinset.

[@plainsbowhunter1346]

Schluter still say unmodified or their website. When did they change to modified and is it or their website somewhere? Thanks for your videos. They’re great

[@zepryspet]

Thanks for this! Really great stuff

[@MrTooTechnical]

Great vid. Can you try your favourite sheet membrane with megalite please? Thx

[@carmfully]

Can you please do the same test with wedi board and sealant? All-set performs well, but a real pain to work with given how "sticky" it is.

[@saulcaravantes6438]

Love the video , question what warranty does Laticrete give you using they’re products

[@laticrete]

Here's some info on our warranty options (check out the section under warranties) - which warranty you get depends on what system of products you are using together. laticrete.com/en/tile-and-stone-installation/waterproofing/hydro-ban-sheet-membrane

[@Arteolike]

If you mix 1-2 (by weight) Multimax and all-set you get an absolutely killer easy to work with membrane thin set, it’s nearly water proof.

[@ALDOventura-dl5gf]

the coach is the man

[@paulrichardson5309]

Hey Isaac, I've watch so many of your videos and wasn't sure if I should use Schlueter for my daughter's shower but after this video I think I will , wasn't sure if a mortar bed w/pre sloped was best or is schlueter ?? Paso Robles, Ca

[@september29ification]

Three weeks? What about three years? Given they stated unmodified this whole time and were totally wrong, how can yiu depend on this? What about all the failures out there now? It's why I went with a solid floor and hardi backer. Like your videos, have taught me a lot, thanks.

[@thebigmacd]

If your shower pan has standing water in it for three years straight, water wicking is the least of your issues.

[@sabrinahook1632]

I have a really important question. Can you put clear flex seal liquid waterproofing OVER existing tile to waterproof a shower?

[@newvisionremodeling8892]

Since all set came out I've been paying the extra $ for it on all my showers and you can smell the polymer in it when mixing, I think it might be one of the most heavily modified thin sets I've used... for years, "un mod, un mod, un mod," then schulter comes out with the most modified mortar IMO and says you're ALL SET

[@dansch19]

I just use the stuff period. It's great to work with. I'm certain Laticrete makes some great stuff I just don't have a lot of access here even tho I'm in the northeast US. Not a lot of tile and floor places carry laticrete.

[@krehbein]

From what I remember the issue was when you added liquid additive to unmodified thinset. It wouldn’t dry completely under Kerdi. BUT that’s not the same as buying modified thinset which is fine, as we see with schluters own modified product. So hence schluter was being overly cautious in saying no modified thinsets. Can’t really blame them, how many failures would have happened with the liquid additive. Even if it’s 2% that could have ruined their reputation.

[@johnnys1650]

Would there be any reason why you shouldn't or wouldn't want to use the entire sheet membrane in a single piece and go up the walls 4". Folding and thinsetting your corners without cutting them. Then, if as a secondary or as needed, use your pre made corners and tape as normal. Seems like all of the water wicking is under the tape seems in most cases. The membrane itself seems impervious, but the water can travel through the thinset.

[@amattson6578]

I get your concern. What i actually do is i install the membrane over the pan first, then layer all the seams so they overlap on top of each other so the water sheds over the seams and no water flows directly into any seam. Ive been doing this method ever since i first started using kerdi just as a precaution and havent had any issues and no flood test has failed me yet.

[@tccoggs]

I have done this as a little extra insurance, but still banded the corners as well. Used a multi tool to cut a little relief into the substrate where the corner folds were.

[@salvatorecostello2]

Isaac, is a flood test still important on a direct drain system? I understand why you want to do it with a traditional install when the mortar bed will hold water until the water drains through weep holes but in a direct drain shower the water shouldn't be hanging around anyways right?

[@RightOnJonCrane]

What do you think about Mapei modified thinset and schluter Kerdy membrane?

[@biblgrl6563]

Would you still use a liquid membrane for all the seams?

[@arizothwow1]

You should do a project like this using Durock and redguard to see how that holds.

[@joshmartin7558]

I've been in the tile industry for right at 23 years now. Started as a helper at 15. Over the years, you get a feel for what are good products and what aren't. The seasoned guys aren't as easily sold as the newer guys by marketing. Which causes quite a few arguments between the two, but that's a conversation for another day. All that being said, the newer guys will argue until they're blue in the face about how much better Allset is compared to something like MML. Allset is really not that great of thinset at all. It's gritty, it's mid level thinset at best, but people have been brainwashed by marketing. And conveniently, you're not supposed to use modified thinset with kerdi, unless it's THEIR thinset. Then it's ok. That sounds believable lol. I'd use Laticrete MML over Allset ANY day. Hands down, no question. The "warranty" is a ridiculous was to get you to buy their thinset. If you plan on doing some kerdi, and you havet tried Multi Max Lite, try it. You won't be sorry. 1 bag can do multiple showers.

[@wasntme3651]

All Set is not gritty at all it’s creamy and the elasticity is excellent.

[@joshmartin7558]

@@wasntme3651 Use trilite and then tell me how you feel about allset

[@piratemakers]

I'm about to tile over a kerdi membrane, and as of the 2022 Schluter docs, they are still recommending to use un-modified thinset mortar... Do you think I should go with polymer modified thinset ?

[@TileCoach]

For sure!

[@piratemakers]

@@TileCoach so which is best ? In your video you said to use modified thinset, right ?

[@mikepec2900]

Hate to ask, but can you do the exact same setup (Schluter, modified thinset, etc.), but this time use Redgard or similar roll on membrane over EVERYTHING to see if that completely stops all water intrusion into the mortar and seems? Fellow contractor here. I’ve been doing this practice for some time now and wondering if it pays off. Prior to this, after I’ve done flood test, Ive noticed that the schluter membrane stays wet for an extremely long time! Seems to lock the moisture into that fine fuzzy coating. This combined with a personal feeling that all mortar will eventually pull moisture further into itself, especially in an environment that will never dry out due to (hopefully) daily showers. Over the course of a year or more, I feel your current set up might fail, albeit not spectacularly, but you did say to offer a “lifetime warranty” to my customers so….. what do you think hmmm. Love your channel, very informative, thank you sir.

[@tilefloorguyvilla2096]

That's how I do my showers. Liquid waterproofing over the kerdi, peace of mind for me!!

[@TileCoach]

As I've learned about how these systems work in my testing, I have become more and more confident that additional waterproofing is not needed. As long as the thinset is able to sufficiently retard the water penetration under the seams at a rate slower than the evaporation of the water up through the grout, the system works great. They key is using a highly modified thinset that has a low absorption rate. When liquid water turns to vapor (evaporation), the vapor seeks the path of least resistance and is drawn to the less humid air mass of the bathroom.

[@meganmorgan7952]

@@TileCoach what do you recommend if unmodified thinset was used?? We followed the kerdi directions and applied membrane to our walls using unmodified thinset...and then I started watching your videos. Needless to say I'm feeling worried about our kerdiband seams, should we go over them with some hydroban?

[@dleggs7038]

Always appreciate your videos! Using modified with Schluter, how soon do you install tile? Just curious. Thx!

[@locklearplumbing2205]

Would you recommend tiling straight over self leveler if wire mash is used on wood sub floor. This is a bathroom floor.

[@fjr0873]

Can you use both of them for one job and which set would you use?

[@silicondt1]

Hasn't all-set been around for 5+ years? Are you saying that they recently changed all-set mix or that you are just now trying it with kerdi band because they always recommended unmodified?

[@hunterdolanch8725]

Brilliant testing!!!!

[@willhall9672]

What about those other waterproof bathroom products like from Vevor or Dural Tilux

[@douglasgoodman226]

Fantastic! Really great information.

[@elierhernandez1]

Question: I’m doing kerdi membrane thinseted to plywood, bonded to drain with Schluter toothpaste like silicone, and with the 4 screws and flange like a regular liner. Then mortar bed, and then kerdi over mortar. Do you see a problem with doing that?

[@keenapowell8715]

Great to know! THANK YOU!!! Was prepared to ditch the pre-purchased Kerdi kit to purchase Laticrete, but now i’ll save the extra $$$-Now if we could just get the suggested deck/fat mud in Texas…🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

[@paulrichardson5309]

Wow , was thinking the same thing, I had purchase a Kerdi shower system and was going to not use it but do a mortar bed w/pre slop and PVC liner ..this video changed my mind

[@keenapowell8715]

Now good luck finding the All Set… not readily available yet i guess

[@Nebulation]

what I don’t understand is, there was another video with that guy doing tests with samples using all-set and all-set 8+9. The plain all-set samples became pretty wet after 24 hours. What is different with this set? Was that one unmodified?

[@mk-jm5tv]

do these products go under or over a PVC liner or do you not use these with PVC liner?

[@jamalothmanRN]

Do you think the hydroban liquid will hold up as well?

[@carmfully]

Why do you put the corners on first then overlap sidewall onto them vs doing the reverse?

[@fungyup]

May I know what water ratio applied for the schulter all-set? They allow a range of water for different purpose.

[@Aplushandymanservice]

im hoping you will try s2 lite by mapei and see how it performs. at this point im will to just try it with another membrane brand that just as thick. ive found similar and just think its the option to go with since they only back up there own products and these others are still giving 10 years as long as the thinset matches the requirements. i just feel like the others im looking into are thicker and if s2 lite or mml works ill use mudbed that drys faster but idk if thatll affect the thinset bond. some mud can dry in couple hours and i think it may be the way to still keep the speed but have a harder bed as to foam bed

[@DavidHu]

I was waiting to see the hydro ban penetration closeups

[@TheTurpin1234]

This isn't the test I'm interested in. What happens when the joists flex and move? The glass box is a cool idea though I like it, but also wouldn't work for a flex test.

[@vanilla50]

The resin (plastic) modifier adds significant flexibility to cement. The lime Italian plasters (brittle limestone) we use for interior & exterior applications on framed walls all have resins added to prevent cracking. There are no cracks unless the foundation fails.

[@TheTurpin1234]

@@vanilla50 Sure. mortar just doesn't seem very flexible to me. I'd love to see some testing.

[@ALDOventura-dl5gf]

good job coach

[@nicolassanchez8318]

Have you more samples with unmodified thin set and red guard, both with Kerdi?

[@theamericanopry]

Why didn't he do a dry pack, like he did with the Red Guard?

[@nailbndr9869]

Does the hydro ban banding hold a fold better the Kerdi band?

[@joshjones9878]

can you make a box out of 30mm or whatever size you can get WEDI board, glued together with a thick bead of WEDI 610 sealant then spread 610 sealeant 2cm either side of all joins (like other systems used band) then test for leaks.. you've only done one WEDI video and that looked liked an older installation that might not have been installed well

[@mwrcrft]

Thanks for sharing, seeing the discoloration in the corners makes me think a coat of Hydro Ban could have helped that. I just received the FloFx drain system I ordered a few day ago. I am building a Schluter shower system over Go Board that sits above a finished ceiling I am doing and after revisiting the 9/21 video on Hydro Ban over Laticrete shower system I think it will be cheap insurance. Belt and suspenders.

[@metalhead1270]

It's just a question to be asked if the schluter drain is used do you think it would hold up to the test just as well I'm looking to use one

[@TileCoach]

Yes, I believe it would.

[@scorpio6587]

Amazing

[@danielmetts2953]

Dose schluter still hate you after this?

[@ChrisDavis-kr4ls]

I've never really liked these products. I use a Pasco vinyl pan liner with Pasco drain sealant and the adjustable 4" drains. I fold my liner(no cutting). I lay the durock wallboard over the liner and use a polyurethane caulking on all seams and screws. And I use HMK sealer

[@ActinOut]

Restores my trust in schluter a little.

[@tdflooringtd]

Wedi closed cell, no fiber paper. Sealant will not fail. For me Wedi #1 Laticrete #2 Schluter I buy there Jollys Great Video Though

[@Tako2e]

Great job like always brother

[@I-TILE]

Love your content bro

[@danithaman4610]

Why didn’t you show the deconstruction of the laticrete?

[@donboty2493]

Excellent

[@joshuacrutcher402]

Would you or have you used Multimax lite on Kerdi membrane?

[@nailbndr9869]

Absolutely can

[@AnthonyFloresCPA]

Very cool test! Man, yesterday I didn't make money, but made a friend for sure. How do I get setup for you to be my tile coach? I'm close to get my license and want to hit the ground running! How can I get up to speed on your best practices, and pricing, etc.?

[@TileCoach]

Go to www.tilecoach.com

[@spicyreef]

Thank you thank you thank you! I think ur right! they watched your videos and "modified" their thinking - hahaha Is it "all-fix" that is used to attach the drain flange to the shower membrane? I'll go find ur vid on this for a refresh. I just purchased the all-set and shower kit yesterday and now the tile my wife want's is out of stock!!!! phew... I get a break on the honeydew list

[@TileCoach]

Yes, use the All-Set to attach the membrane to the bonding flange.

[@dennisbishop6941]

I did a test with redguard on cardboard box never leaked in 3months its far less expensive.

[@TXN_HomeImprovements]

badass shit keep it going

[@beachboardfan9544]

Test these against the ready to tile pans like tile redi or kbrs...

[@yurybadanin5035]

How do you advertise your tile business ? Craigslist ?

[@micahned]

Lol yeah the guy with a multimillion dollar business and 200k subscribers on youtube advertises on craigslist...

[@ssl3546]

you say that after watching a video on his youtube channel 🧐

[@yurybadanin5035]

@@micahned -:))

[@thorjohnson5237]

Have you tested RedGard the same way?

[@TileCoach]

Literally just finished the test and editing now. Stay tuned should be up tonight or tomorrow!

[@Stevesbe]

Bring back the USG shower system

[@michaelcolascione2423]

With schluter there warranty means everything. Schluter stands by it's product.

[@emartinez6584]

where`s your moisture meter

[@craigpoer]

Im just waiting for the hammer to come down. They insisted that I use unmodified. No failures yet.

[@deeeeeeps]

I think the ultimate seal would be a 2 part epoxy bonding the kerdi. This wicking stops me wanting to ever try this product.

[@BillyJ10]

👍

[@jayvan4353]

Every leaking shower pan I've fixed over the past 6 years are these products. Very few people follow all the steps or buy all the products to make these pans work properly. I personally think these systems are way over priced

[@mahimac8126]

What would you recommend then?

[@INTERLAGOS54]

You didnt show peeling apart the laticrete side? Kinda disappointed!

[@TileCoach]

If ended up very similar, so I left it out. Also, I've done previous testing on Multimax lite so I focused more on the All-Set

[@INTERLAGOS54]

@@TileCoach Im knew to this so I havent watched all the videos. Thanks for the reply though.

[@robertgoss7355]

Someone's drain would have to be extremely stopped up to have an issue with water in it that high for that long.

[@thresher2656]

Hotmop southercalifornia can last up to 50 years doing right way.

[@nicolassanchez8318]

I thought he was going to go the other way with that