Schooled by a Pro Sim Racer | Coaching w Nils Naujoks in ACC

  Рет қаралды 95,112

Chris Haye

Chris Haye

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 175
@SimracingPopometer
@SimracingPopometer 4 жыл бұрын
I really couldnt ask for more, thanks for leveraging me, thanks for being a good student, thanks for alle the comments of everyone. And get your shots ready for the drinking game :D Sacrificing something to be faster elsewhere is a common thing. The more the corners are connected, the more this is true. Suzuka anyone? :)
@ChrisHaye
@ChrisHaye 4 жыл бұрын
Heh, thanks for your patience dude. Make sure you guys go and sub to Nils channel, lots of very useful content on there!
@onomatopoeidia
@onomatopoeidia 4 жыл бұрын
Suzuka’s a great example of that yes. Looking ahead and preparing for the eventual left hander and blast down the short straight. Nice 1!
@bartterp88
@bartterp88 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing your techniques and simracing enthusiasm with us Nils! Really appreciate it. In this video you opened up my eyes to re-watch my laps from a neutral stand point. This will help me even more.
@sixonesix9429
@sixonesix9429 4 жыл бұрын
@Nils Naujoks Thank YOU for this absolute golden insight. Sooo many of the community need to see this. You're explanations and data analysis are just fantastic.
@TheChannel1978
@TheChannel1978 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much for sharing your insight Nils. Is Motec data export from the regular PC version of ACC or are additional plug-ins needed? I'm a console sim racer (Gran Turismo Sport) but thinking I might have to build up a PC setup. On Gran Turismo Sport we just have a delta time and ghosts, so analysis is harder.
@richardshaw4693
@richardshaw4693 4 жыл бұрын
Always tough when another man tells you that "you look inecure on entry".... Jokes aside, this was a really interesting video, keep up the great work Chris!
@moroleonaers5479
@moroleonaers5479 2 жыл бұрын
fanatec should use thas quote on the opening flaps of the load cell pedal boxes...
@SlowBloke123
@SlowBloke123 4 жыл бұрын
This is superb stuff - very enlightening !
@ChrisHaye
@ChrisHaye 4 жыл бұрын
Glad you think so! I've been wanting to do this for a while. As someone who is fairly quick, but not on the alien level, it's great to be able to see where the differences lie!
@rikirk66
@rikirk66 4 жыл бұрын
I had the same opportunity few weeks ago and Nils provided me with so much insight about all my bad habits, I would never be able to find myself without comparing the data with his lap and go through the reasoning behind all the delta. We actually skipped the video part and focused on the MoTec. For sure one of the very best time I had in my short life with sim-racing and eager for the next session. As you can see from the video, Nils has such a great personality, which is the priceless part of the whole experience.
@ChrisHaye
@ChrisHaye 4 жыл бұрын
Glad you found it valuable. I wasn't really sure what to expect, but I was blown away by the detail!
@SimracingPopometer
@SimracingPopometer 4 жыл бұрын
thanks so much for the shout mate!
@SDAspra
@SDAspra 4 жыл бұрын
Whilst the advice is spot on, I feel like "over-slowing", "leaving speed on the table" then compensating with half-throttle is just how we mere mortals navigate corners we couldn't for the life of us figure out!
@SDAspra
@SDAspra 4 жыл бұрын
The differentiation between the speed apex and the positional apex is just next level stuff. It makes perfect sense though now that he mentions it!
@podium8831
@podium8831 4 жыл бұрын
Fun Drinking Game: Take a shot every time Nis says the word ''Sacrifice''
@ChrisHaye
@ChrisHaye 4 жыл бұрын
Or every time I look like a kid at school who's just been told I got the wrong answer :D
@youcandothis11
@youcandothis11 4 жыл бұрын
You need to sacrifice a lot to be fast.
@darkbring3r
@darkbring3r 4 жыл бұрын
kzbin.info/www/bejne/hKOvnIeQp7WNd5Y
@MeesterJoey
@MeesterJoey 2 жыл бұрын
Nils has a lot of knowledge and explains it so well! I've learnt a lot from this. Thanks Nils.
@AlistairHughes
@AlistairHughes 4 жыл бұрын
Fantastically interesting and very educational. Nils seems a very likeable teacher, even while pulling your lap to pieces. I'm glad he helped you build an even better lap afterward, and thanks for being willing to show us the process.
@skilewis74
@skilewis74 4 жыл бұрын
This is GREAT! Now I can actually understand all those squiggly lines w/ a bit of intelligence :) Also the way he explained everything I think I now could improve my times even w/o directly comparing them to a faster driver :)
@ChrisHaye
@ChrisHaye 4 жыл бұрын
Heh, yeah very much so. As someone that thought he had a decent idea about how it all works, there was still so much to learn. Very much felt like a kid in school again!
@skilewis74
@skilewis74 4 жыл бұрын
Chris Haye. Vid idea: ~ “Am I spending too much time/$ on sim racing?” I wrote a more detailed example of how I’d do it on your “How to start sim racing as cheap as possible” vid.
@steveworrell
@steveworrell 4 жыл бұрын
Two authentic voices in sim racing combining to make a great resource for the community. Top stuff.
@sameerdavids9808
@sameerdavids9808 4 жыл бұрын
honestly seeing the breakdown of the lap was amazing. First time really looking at the data that is offered by ACC but damn it's so clear where the improvements are. Super good explanation as well. Thank you for the vid bud
@edteach3r
@edteach3r 4 жыл бұрын
Awesome video, thanks Chris. I find all this data mind-boggling ... In my imperfect sim-racing world, I tend to implement such info in a cognitive, linear fashion, whereas Nils assimilates this instinctively... a big difference! I can see great value in a coaching session with Nils in order to UNDERSTAND what is actually happening in each moment. Of course, 12 year-old sim racing equipment does not help much, but I can certainly be much faster with professional help.
@KrazyKanucker
@KrazyKanucker 4 жыл бұрын
I do those things instinctively after 10K laps per year. If you can do those things in your sleep you can then focus on battling. There's no way I could explain it as well as Nils. I'd have to make coaching my new hobby and work hard on communicating whats being done efficiently. Very well done!
@loverman76
@loverman76 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much for this, very good explanations for everything, I think this helped me very much understanding my own mistakes and reasons for why and where I loose time on every lap
@darynlowe7002
@darynlowe7002 4 жыл бұрын
I found that exceptionally informative, looks like Nils is a great coach.
@pstoppani
@pstoppani 4 жыл бұрын
Fantastic! Thanks for sharing. Planning multi-curve sections is not easy as Nils shows so clearly here.
@ChrisHaye
@ChrisHaye 4 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it! There's a lot of useful info in there. Even stuff that I knew conceptually, but hadn't really realised I wasn't quite doing right once I was in the car.
@youriberger7961
@youriberger7961 4 жыл бұрын
really good video! I always wondered why I was consistently around 1 second slower than the really quick guys but it are things like these that slow me down. I'm gonna start analysing my laps a lot more now
@ChrisHaye
@ChrisHaye 4 жыл бұрын
Glad you liked it! I had the same experience. I'm able to win public lobby races, and hold my own in leagues, but when it comes to keeping up with the aliens, I couldn't find the mistakes myself. Definitely useful!
@Skippy-id9yt
@Skippy-id9yt 4 жыл бұрын
I also have been braking too hard too soon (as my best lap was always one or half a second behind the best and keeping on throttle like that also to get to the acceleration point , very helpful as I knew I was braking too hard too early but this confirmed it for me .....cheers
@shydncrumph8119
@shydncrumph8119 3 жыл бұрын
simply brilliant!
@Pfsensepluss
@Pfsensepluss 3 жыл бұрын
Top notch, invaluable information, thanks for sharing and introducing us to Nils Naujok
@SnoodyMcFlude
@SnoodyMcFlude 4 жыл бұрын
Really interesting stuff, thanks for sharing. I've always got the idea of sacrificing one corner for another but never really thought about how my exit of T3 could be started at entry of T1
@hsmptg
@hsmptg 4 жыл бұрын
This is a GEM for someone that wants to learn!!!
@petesreef1891
@petesreef1891 3 жыл бұрын
Liked and subscribed great vid Nils is superb at teaching , I'm subscribed to his too. 👍👍👍
@DeclanCunningham
@DeclanCunningham 4 жыл бұрын
Congratulations Chris. You just passed gamer-muscle in subscribers.
@BaleBose
@BaleBose 4 жыл бұрын
I usually like things to be dumbed down for ease of play and fun, but this was extremely interesting. Great video! Thanks for your efforts.
@84benfranklin
@84benfranklin 3 жыл бұрын
Appreciate this very much. Thanks for sharing, guys!!
@heinrichetsebeth157
@heinrichetsebeth157 4 жыл бұрын
Damn this is cool. Had to watch it multiple times to catch everything and for it to really sink in.
@jackclemens8092
@jackclemens8092 4 жыл бұрын
Great stuff, Chris. I have Definitely taken a few tips away from this and put them into practice.
@brussells
@brussells 4 жыл бұрын
Really informative, interesting video. I'd definitely benefit from something like this, as I know I'm slow in places for sure. I'm going to be using the different views to review my laps for sure! Thanks for creating this.
@goodlookinouthomie1757
@goodlookinouthomie1757 3 жыл бұрын
"I sense some insecurity on entry" Nils is singing my life with his words.
@lucianp87
@lucianp87 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for helping me discover his channel!
@briansindorf9121
@briansindorf9121 3 жыл бұрын
Definitely an eye opener. Being slow is more about viewing the track incorrectly. Hopefully I can enter some respectable midfield times with this information. 🤞
@SimracingPopometer
@SimracingPopometer 3 жыл бұрын
did you? :)
@briansindorf9121
@briansindorf9121 3 жыл бұрын
@@SimracingPopometer I actually just put in a particularly fast (for me) session at Brands Hatch. Average was probably around mid 1:27s. Best was a low 1:26. My biggest road block was my attitude towards any time I went off. I would call BS on the physics 😂😂😂 it just gets so frustrating. Now I am totally accepting of mistakes and can deal with my inconsistencies in a more analytical way.
@mcgrup
@mcgrup 4 жыл бұрын
Hello thank you for this video. This video has helped me more than any I have come across. Great job
@garycarmichael8432
@garycarmichael8432 3 жыл бұрын
Fascinating. I can see why I'm so slow now.
@Mark-Icemarbo
@Mark-Icemarbo 4 жыл бұрын
This is very cool and informative!! I just got ACC and a have a lot of learning to do 🙈😂 Not to mention how to properly setup my cars. Coming from Pcars 2 i really love this game!!
@mrjivester
@mrjivester 4 жыл бұрын
Chris, Thanks for uploading the vid, this is very helpful. Nils thanks for the advice, I will be practicing keeping your advice in mind.
@SimracingPopometer
@SimracingPopometer 4 жыл бұрын
Let me know if you get stuck ;)
@stromzalesracing3397
@stromzalesracing3397 4 жыл бұрын
Awesome video, insightful and, as always masterfully produced.
@1x2x3xdk
@1x2x3xdk 4 жыл бұрын
Excellent video. Very interesting
@chrisa1160
@chrisa1160 4 жыл бұрын
Extremely helpful... thank you for sharing this with all of us!
@DaylightDigital
@DaylightDigital 4 жыл бұрын
Can't get enough of this analysis!
@mcfly8870
@mcfly8870 4 жыл бұрын
Great video thanks, so much better than I could ever learn from any ghost or video replay
@ChrisHaye
@ChrisHaye 4 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it! Lots to take in!
@smoothacceleration437
@smoothacceleration437 4 жыл бұрын
Waow, Nils is a fantastic coach!
@trick6579
@trick6579 4 жыл бұрын
Awesome information, great vid. Well done Chris and Nils 👊🏻
@ChrisHaye
@ChrisHaye 4 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it! I think there's a lot of useful info in there for most drivers who aren't of the alien persuasion ;)
@birdybutch
@birdybutch 3 жыл бұрын
thank you VERY much
@wigwam69
@wigwam69 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this video. Helped me alot. I hope other tracks will follow.
@prdoyle
@prdoyle 3 жыл бұрын
This is gold. I'm sure I'm making all the same mistakes.
@olexandromelyan556
@olexandromelyan556 4 жыл бұрын
It's awesome! Make more, guys!
@ChrisHaye
@ChrisHaye 4 жыл бұрын
I'm definitely going to buy a follow up session, to make sure I'm not slipping back into bad habits. Maybe we can do a follow up video :)
@chrispietersen804
@chrispietersen804 4 жыл бұрын
I LOVED THIS!!! What an Awesome Video!!!
@sixonesix9429
@sixonesix9429 4 жыл бұрын
Great video. Great production as well.
@MrXana91
@MrXana91 4 жыл бұрын
This video is so freaking satisfying to watch.
@SimracingPopometer
@SimracingPopometer 4 жыл бұрын
ASMR coaching vid maybe? :)
@FaintMouse
@FaintMouse 4 жыл бұрын
Loved it all. Thanks for sharing!
@ChrisHaye
@ChrisHaye 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching!
@lawerancelanham
@lawerancelanham 4 жыл бұрын
Lesson 1: Straightening the curves I grew up in Hazard with the Duke boys. 🤣👍
@BluesLetterMan
@BluesLetterMan 4 жыл бұрын
Boy, thi's pure 24 carat Gold!
@briang6168
@briang6168 4 жыл бұрын
Very interesting video. I was comparing what Nils said to Driver 61. Nils seemed to want more weight to be over the front wheels on corner entry to help turn in whereas Driver 61 seems to think it's better to have a more stable platform and less pitching forward ( at least that was my take on it). So seems like different advice. In fact I think Driver 61 said for some corners it was best to brake earlier and lighter and keep the car from pitching forward. Now I may not be representing or understanding what both coaches are saying but seems a different approach. Would it not also depend on the handling characteristics of the car? I only use a console but with Project Cars 2 I find the Mercedes has understeer tendency and Nils approach would maybe help rotation. The other thing I find difficult is coming off the brake pedal gently, trail braking , as I have to use alot of force on the pedals to get the car stopped and there isn't alot of pedal travel on my brakes. Bit long winded ( by me!) but found your video very interesting, well done.
@SimracingPopometer
@SimracingPopometer 4 жыл бұрын
Sadly cant compare real life to games in every detail and especially cant compare between games. usually, you only want a stable speed through very high speed corners where huge amounts of downforce are affecting the car and where pitching could cause major balance shifts. Additionally, some cars can, some cars cant take that better or worse
@gamerscockpit
@gamerscockpit 4 жыл бұрын
Yeh I agree. I drive more like Driver 61...........but perhaps for sim racing I need to change. My baseline is based on real track driving but perhaps this may hurt??
@TheChannel1978
@TheChannel1978 4 жыл бұрын
Depends on many variables. In this case Nils data showed the less balanced approach with later braking is faster overall because his data showed it. Ordinarily there may not be faster data to compare oneself against 1:1 so it won't be as easy to get to the faster conclusion
@roccothamanoidis
@roccothamanoidis 4 жыл бұрын
Top content! Thanks for sharing. Learned alot.
@colinhughessimracing2757
@colinhughessimracing2757 4 жыл бұрын
Really insightful thanks for sharing with us 👍
@bartoszbinczyk578
@bartoszbinczyk578 4 жыл бұрын
Great video! I was wondering how you make the graph of time variance in MoTeC. Is there any guide out there on how to make one? Perhaps a new video idea ;)
@SimracingPopometer
@SimracingPopometer 4 жыл бұрын
would be a very short video: Press F3 :)
@ahellmann
@ahellmann 4 жыл бұрын
Outstanding content. Nils, could you, please, provide this updated workbook with time variance? I couldn't find it in the one linked on your channel.
@SimracingPopometer
@SimracingPopometer 4 жыл бұрын
just hit F3! there's also a Greek delta letter to be found in the right side navigation bar
@ahellmann
@ahellmann 4 жыл бұрын
@@SimracingPopometer Thank you! I'm new to Motec.
@sirdrinksaiot415
@sirdrinksaiot415 4 жыл бұрын
Great video keep up the good work and stay safe
@ChrisHaye
@ChrisHaye 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks Lewis, you too! 👍
@Marcus___70s
@Marcus___70s 4 жыл бұрын
Awesome what a great teacher 👍🏻
@Garrus4Spectre
@Garrus4Spectre 4 жыл бұрын
Fascinating stuff.
@paulista7092
@paulista7092 4 жыл бұрын
Great disclosure, and without a doubt ... if you don't have this motec softwear, you are simply failing to learn the right way!
@chidumekenta2915
@chidumekenta2915 4 жыл бұрын
Jesus Christ. Sim racing is physics, sim racing is maths, sim racing... is LIFE!!!!!
@HomieFFM
@HomieFFM 4 жыл бұрын
15:11 Chris thinking: ''bla bla bla yeah what ever, stop talking man, I'm gonna choke myself'' :D :D :D
@ChrisHaye
@ChrisHaye 4 жыл бұрын
Haha - Accurate!
@OtoWinkler
@OtoWinkler 4 жыл бұрын
good stuff, both of you
@gamaltk
@gamaltk 4 жыл бұрын
What program did you guys use? Excellent video btw! Super informative and motivational by being very actionable
@SimracingPopometer
@SimracingPopometer 4 жыл бұрын
its motec i2 pro. its free. ACC puts out the file format organically
@AlexC259
@AlexC259 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for a great video on how to look at the replay and data to improve ones driving. I really liked the top view looking down on the car's racing line, is this done inside of ACC replay mode to get this top view. I use Assetto Corsa at this time, is it possible to get a top view replay in Assetto Corsa ?
@tscheksn7403
@tscheksn7403 4 жыл бұрын
Awesome content man 🤙
@roletnabih
@roletnabih 4 жыл бұрын
Fantastic video!
@ChrisHaye
@ChrisHaye 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much! Hopefully there is something useful in there for you :)
@Rookie811978
@Rookie811978 4 жыл бұрын
Few things to take away from this...cheers!
@simracer2428
@simracer2428 4 жыл бұрын
Chris i have never seen you look so uncomfortable😊. Great video by the awesome content, keep it up..
@D3LANYO22
@D3LANYO22 4 жыл бұрын
seconds being shaved off
@ChrisHaye
@ChrisHaye 4 жыл бұрын
HAha - just concentrating. :)
@JoeBlowUK
@JoeBlowUK 4 жыл бұрын
At 28:20 It looks like you are having marriage counselling if you mute the sound. 🤣
@gregsonberlin3782
@gregsonberlin3782 4 жыл бұрын
I‘m just wondering how you and Nils got the laps so comparable in terms of the setups of the cars. Did you use the same setup? I mean - a setup makes so much difference in terms of cornering, break behavior etc. with different breakbalance, tirepresure, differential and so on.
@SimracingPopometer
@SimracingPopometer 4 жыл бұрын
Aggressive Preset with slightly adjusted pressures - thats how :) Also we controlled for temperatures, track grip, time of day, etc. Apart from that setups are over-rated in that regard. The patterns visible in his driving are not a result of the setup.
@gregsonberlin3782
@gregsonberlin3782 4 жыл бұрын
@@SimracingPopometer Thanks :) But one thing about over-rated setups: Completely wrong setups make a car undriveable right? So where to draw the line between good basic setup and super finetuned setup?
@nucspartan321
@nucspartan321 4 жыл бұрын
Killing it Chris
@kieranhendy
@kieranhendy 4 жыл бұрын
This is really useful but I prefer oversteer to understeer. I don’t mean violent oversteer but as long as it’s manageable I find it easier to get the rotation.
@SimracingPopometer
@SimracingPopometer 4 жыл бұрын
Everyone likes setups that rotate well, but the mercedes does only tolerate it to a certain degree, though. the rear is really sensitive to any kind of slip and has a tendency to snap plus the TC just killing a lot of acceleration then.
@moroleonaers5479
@moroleonaers5479 2 жыл бұрын
100% braking and no abs intervening at all? Im having a serious issue with my setup since day 1 a year ago on ACC... Abs intervention is killing my braking no matter the car setup or abs settings, I tried re installing game and trying different wheel base firmwares to no avail... do I need to do something special with my Fanatec Load Cell pedals? Im sad I have to brake much sooner than everyone else.
@SimracingPopometer
@SimracingPopometer 2 жыл бұрын
late answer: during replays there's not Abs interaction shown. abs is part of those gt3s, it's designed to help you. it's ok generally if abs intervenes, just shouldn't be excessive
@forestboy52
@forestboy52 4 жыл бұрын
Really great. So interesting.
@robertcarr4172
@robertcarr4172 4 жыл бұрын
Great informative vid!!
@kyolek9485
@kyolek9485 3 жыл бұрын
this was really interesting
@nucspartan321
@nucspartan321 4 жыл бұрын
Amazing video
@shinypuppy1014
@shinypuppy1014 4 жыл бұрын
This guy is damn good
@dsd6538
@dsd6538 3 жыл бұрын
Damn that's scientific 😄
@andymf150
@andymf150 4 жыл бұрын
This was Amazing
@PhO3NiX96
@PhO3NiX96 4 жыл бұрын
You and him never mentionned the setup ? Is it going to be on the longer video ??
@SimracingPopometer
@SimracingPopometer 4 жыл бұрын
If i remember correctly we just used a Coach Dave Academy Setup!
@mmarkotan
@mmarkotan 4 жыл бұрын
great great video
@d1want34
@d1want34 4 жыл бұрын
I'm always 4 seconds off the fastest guy in the world ranking
@flimluvr
@flimluvr 4 жыл бұрын
enjoyed
@boostedmedia
@boostedmedia 4 жыл бұрын
LMAO look at you blushing! You did well mate! Really interesting video too!
@SimracingPopometer
@SimracingPopometer 4 жыл бұрын
He did. its not easy making such a jump in laptime
@McNab1986
@McNab1986 3 жыл бұрын
Does this kinda coaching work unless it's really regular?
@SimracingPopometer
@SimracingPopometer 2 жыл бұрын
most people have one session and need a while to implement.. usually I keep repeating similar message on multiple sessions, but depends really where you start
@McNab1986
@McNab1986 2 жыл бұрын
@@SimracingPopometer I've always been curious to have one do it, cause I think I know why I'm not faster, but i could be wrong I'm always competitive when i'm in the mood for it, but something let's me down in my driving
@Kebabbug
@Kebabbug 4 жыл бұрын
Hey at least its nils and not amir XDXDXD xoxoxoxo hossinni
@kubapluzek
@kubapluzek 3 жыл бұрын
black magic tips here
@MrBfJohn
@MrBfJohn 4 жыл бұрын
Very informative session, but is there any price guide available for this service?
@ChrisHaye
@ChrisHaye 4 жыл бұрын
Probably best to speak to Nils about that, I've put his contact info in a pinned comment, though he may see this once he's done with his practice session this evening :)
@SimracingPopometer
@SimracingPopometer 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks Chris, just join the discord and theres a channel with all the info. If you miss anything, just reach out via DM!
@OPgiSh0tzonYT
@OPgiSh0tzonYT 4 жыл бұрын
"I'm afraid of sausages"
@Rookie811978
@Rookie811978 4 жыл бұрын
Had a good laugh when Chris said that.
@alec7568
@alec7568 4 жыл бұрын
Anyome else stoked to have this game on console!?
@nobodyimportant7380
@nobodyimportant7380 2 жыл бұрын
How do you zoom into the graphs for a closer look? My assetto corsa doesn't allow me to do that or maybe I haven't found the correct button to press.
@MalcomMcLeod
@MalcomMcLeod 4 жыл бұрын
Do they ride the curbs that much into turn 1 in real life?
@SimracingPopometer
@SimracingPopometer 4 жыл бұрын
tbh: i've never seen a single lap of a gt3 car on barca, except for david perels: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXyxqX2Oe86jeMk and he mind the saussage
@Maus881
@Maus881 3 жыл бұрын
How do I get the "delta" or "variance" line on my motec lap data?
@jontshyza
@jontshyza 4 жыл бұрын
is this going to help me when I play need for speed heat?
@mli7822
@mli7822 4 жыл бұрын
Any tips to practice trail braking more with the right foot? 😂😂
@SimracingPopometer
@SimracingPopometer 4 жыл бұрын
Get some tape and wrap it around foot and throttle pedal :) Only if you cant use your left for physiological reasons you want to use the right, imo
@shaneseiber7893
@shaneseiber7893 2 жыл бұрын
All this stuff happens so fast, it's so hard to get it right. SImracing really teaches you how bad you are at driving and how great the pros are lol
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