ARTEMIS BATTLESTAR | A revolutionary but flawed ship

[@Jager1967]

Artemis: *SMASH, SMASH, SMASH, SMASH* Colonial Politicians: "Hey man, I think you got them." Artemis: "You want some of this?" Colonial Politicians: "No." Artemis: "Didn't think so, justice for Caprica."

[@GlamorousTitanic21]

I am so happy that for Deadlock they designed the Artemis class to look like the original series Galactica. It was a fantastic nod to what came before.

[@jameslewis2635]

Let's be clear, most ship designs in any Sci Fi settings (including BSG) tend to be fantastical to the point of impossibility (looking at you Colonial Viper). The thing that stands out on this point for BSG is that the actual Battlestar layouts are actually practical in terms of their overall design. Being essentially a highly armoured box with two externally mounted landing bays (which considering the possibility of a hanger deck fire this makes a whole lot of sense in terms of not letting the whole ship die in a single explosion) along with short range turrets and nuclear missile launchers.

[@cp1cupcake]

One of the things I didn't like about this is the whole 'our new version has better everything and we tested all of it on the same platform.' Yeah, that can sometimes happen, but I'd much rather see stuff where there isn't just 1 proof of concept for all the ideas. I kinda look at the Honorverse for this, the switch over to carriers and missile pods didn't start with the fleet elements being designed with them in mind. For the former, they started with converted cargoships with all of the problems of using a civilian ship and the latter was used by towing them along instead of building ships to be able to roll out waves of them (which they did later).

[@Smenkhaare]

@@cp1cupcake Yes the towed missile pods in the Honorverse were a great stepping off point for the Honorverse. A nice evolution in military design.

[@Valehass]

I've played hundreds of battles in Deadlock with every conceivable mix of Battlestar and support ship and after many months I came to the conclusion that a fleet of five Artemins Battlestars was by far the most effective Cylon fleet killer I could use. A flying wedge could destroy anything the enemy threw at me with ease. Need a wall of flak, need 10 squadrons of Vipers, need 10 torpedo volleys, need unimaginable close combat artillery. Never lost a single ship or came close to loosing a battle once I worked this out.

[@Belligerent_Herald]

I always liked 4 arties and two Minotaurs. It was actually irritating when the missions required the Galactica. For it being such a big part of the game there really wasn’t a clean fleet mix to go with the Jupiters.

[@jaywerner8415]

Yeah iv seen videos, 5 Artemis Battlestars will kill pretty much anything that gets thrown at them. Impressive to say the least but then again, its got everything you need: Flak Walls to deal with Fighters and Missiles, BattleStar Artillery on top, good Armor ALL ROUND, a Ordinance Launcher for whatever you feel is best and 2 Fighter bays.

[@gryphon_Space]

I played pvp where there was a limit of 3 ships of the same type, so no more than 3 artemis and 3 artemis was almost always one of the strongest options the colonials had.

[@SamauraiRippeR]

The elevation change isn't that good, though, so all a cylon fleet should need to do is get below you.

[@gryphon_Space]

that's what the support fleet is for, there's very few cyclon targets that can get below the artemis and wipe it out if it's properly supported

[@vi6ddarkking]

When I played Deadlock the ARTEMIS was a core part of the fleet well into the late game due to its relatively low point cost good Viper carrying capacity. And that it fit well with the Adamants in the Wall Of Fire Formation.

[@firestorm165]

Same, the Artemis was always right at the centre of my battle line serving as the flagship until the Jupiters came into service. Then the Jupiter was always escorted by two Artemis class battlestars. In my runs it got to the point where they were being built as a set which was how the Jupiter class Spartan went into the fight with the Artemis classes Hoplon and Kopis by its side

[@AnonD38]

Yep, the Artemis just makes for such a good flagship. You can basically take any other ship and add it to a fleet led by an Artemis. Just to challenge myself I never made two fleets with the same combination of ships, sometimes an Adamant gun wall fleet, sometimes a Ranger/Janus missile fleet, sometimes an Atlas Fighter Swarm fleet. I had a great time.

[@ranekeisenkralle8265]

@@AnonD38 "You can basically take any other ship and add it to a fleet led by an Artemis." Yep. Did that. Most notably my Aesir's Wrath fleet which consisted of four ships total: The Artemis flagship, to which I added another Artemis as backup, and then another Artemis for good measure - plus a Manticore as scout. Stacked the trio one atop the other with a bit of spacing and dared the enemy to come at me while the Manticore went searching for ...things i would not want to see much longer. And in keeping with the fleet's name the battlestars got named Tyr, Thor, and Odin - and boy did they bring the thunder to the enemy.

[@AnonD38]

@@ranekeisenkralle8265 An Artemis gun wall? Dear god, did you ever take hull damage with that fleet? (not including the manticore)

[@ranekeisenkralle8265]

@@AnonD38 Only in the first engagement until i got the formation and spacing right. But after that was sorted, nothing major. The same cannot be said about the opposition though. And I don't think I need to tell you the results of 'The allmighty Wall of Flak blessed be its name' not just squared but cubed. Let's just say that formation had very little issue with missiles or enemy craft. Edit: The biggest issue tuned out to be getting the ships far enough down the Z-axis in time for the enemy formation to close. Which is why I typically brought them in at the far back of the deployment area. I've seen that formation annihilate enemy scouts with one salvo of the dorsal batteries... Not just the Nemesis-class vessels. the light carriers, too (forgot the name) Ad to add insult to injury, the battlestars got equipped with torps instead of guided missiles - to basically ignore enemy hacking attempts to redirect missiles. And if something got too close - or was stationary - torps were flying at it.

[@shanenolan5625]

The tos galactica. Its mentioned in the second last episode. She was 500 years old and the class was originally intended as a vessel of exploration, which is why she serves well in her role . ( finding resources, search for earth ect ) .

[@RealSensationalBeing]

And in the last episode we find out about the observation domes that were surely part of that function of exploration. Even though Apollo seems to suggest that their updated scanners makes those domes redundant. I forget if he said anything about the other domes being destroyed over the Galactica's many battles or if the Colonials actually removed some.

[@shanenolan5625]

@@RealSensationalBeing yes he and Starbucks took the girls on a double date up there .

[@DIEGhostfish]

@@RealSensationalBeing I only saw a few episodes, one had them in a dome that also picked up transmissions and after they left the dome, the untended machine therein received a broadcast of the Apollo landing (Implied to be centuries old.) Was that really the last episode? (Not counting the retcon where to save money they showed up on Earth and things were very dumb)

[@RealSensationalBeing]

@@DIEGhostfish Yes that was the last episode. "The Hand of God" Since you seem to agree that Galactica takes place in our future what do you think about the discovery of Earth linking up with Buck Rogers?

[@ReconViper1]

@@RealSensationalBeing I always thought that would be interesting.

[@GeofftheIronwolf]

I honestly wanted to write an absolutely terrible fanfic about survivors if the cylon attack stumbling upon a few decommissioned Artemis class, getting them up and running. No heavy weapons or ordinance. Just turned into ships that have all the facilities you need to sustain thousands of people. One tlight pod becomes a Tilium refinery. Another water purifier/ food production. You get the point.

[@Ser-Vex131]

Sounds like an interesting game idea too.

[@dustincarlson7010]

I’m here for this!

[@GeofftheIronwolf]

@@dustincarlson7010 well I didn't finish that part as I see. Basically once they get the ships up and running they see Starbuck's mission back to Caprica, and follow the raptors back to the fleet after Pegasus is lost at New Caprica and join the fleet. Like I said, bad fan fic.

[@Revan41411]

I’d read that

[@julonkrutor4649]

@@Ser-Vex131 So basicly being hunted by the tosters, jump, get the ress you can get, the tosters show up and you can A fight to spend a bit more time getting the ress or B run? Maybe with the option to even break contact with the tosters, find a new home, rebuild and then go back to safe wath you can?

[@vnep5743]

"no one expects their kitchen to start a revolution." Unless you're a modern stone age family. Then it's ironically within the realm of possibility.

[@Red5x5x5]

You had me at "Ginormous fuck off guns." 😂

[@airplanemaster1]

Officially, the '78 Battlestars never had a proper ship 'class' name in the old show. They were just 'Battlestars.' Fans named them the 'Ares' class, or sometimes the 'Columbia Type,' due to said ship being the flagship of the convoy going to sign the peace treaty with the Cylons.

[@gawainethefirst]

In the original series they were built well enough to last for over seven centuries.

[@weldonwin]

In fact, in the original novel (Yes BSG is based on a book), Battlestar was a generic catch-all term for very large warships. Every Battlestar was completely unique and looked absolutely nothing the others, each one having been built bespoke by its home colony. Galactica is supposed to look like the Battlestars we know and love, but the Columbia the official flagship of the colonies, was described as being a cluster of spheres, linked by bridges and pipes.

[@KnightofRome01]

"Holy wall of flak, blessed by its name." has to be one of my new favorite phrases.

[@StarScapesOG]

"Nobody expects their kitchen to stage a revolution on them one morning...." No. My contingencies are next to perfect, and none of my appliances were able to learn of them. Especially not the toaster or microwave.

[@weldonwin]

I'm suddenly reminded of the psychotic talking toaster from Fallout New Vegas

[@mementomori7825]

It's always the dishwasher that gets you.

[@s3p4kner]

But dad .. this new dishwasher has integrated WiFi, internet access and has self learning to guarantee it never uses too much soap or water! I SAID NO! I already have a dishwasher (stares intently)

[@licentiouslust5318]

@@weldonwin and ah'm reminded of that song by Frontalot, "Zero Day."

[@robinburt5735]

Wow, you absolutely nailed me, i'm an ex-GW employee who does paint miniatures and TNG is my go to. Currently re-watching Stargate SG1 though

[@nella_jt4353]

I have always believed Adamant Frigate was just a prototype for the Artemis battlestar. They built it small to save money to see if the concept worked and it worked so well they made it into its own class

[@raider3167]

I never really got into BSG growing up; I was more of a TNG kid. But the inner nerd who loved TNG is excited now, because I’m gonna hunt down this show and binge it.

[@icanseenowherefromhere8995]

Bash BSG 1978 if you want, but what do you think people will be saying about the production quality of the remake in roughly 50 years? I love the new version of BSG and am so happy that the studio execs didn't screw it up, again, but I won't fault the production quality of the original considering what else was coming out of studios at the time. Short of major feature films there wasn't much better.

[@davidthomas495]

Also, Sci-Fi was just starting to get popular. At the time it was a fringe genra of entertainment. The special effects were all practical effects too, no CG, it didn't even exist. Look at the computer representation of the Death Star when the rebels are in the mission briefing, at the time that was state of the art computer graphics. Because sci-fi was so newly popular the studios were very hesitant to invest money in production and a weekly epiosode schedule didn't allow for multiple versions of ships, varying angles etc. TV was not nearly as advanced as it is now. Look at what was being produced in the day the OG series came out and appreciate how advanced it was for the time. You can't compare tech from 50 years ago to today's tech, same goes for television production.

[@ryuukeisscifiproductions1818]

@neb6 i kinda sorta disagree with that one. This argument certainly applies to Star Trek Original Series, but at the time that BSG 78 wars being produced, Star Wars dropped only a year earlier, and Star Trek II wrath of Khan came out only four years later, yet despite these movies age, their FX still holds up very well. And BSG 78 had an absolutely enormous budge thrown at it for the time, over a million per episode, and the Pilot, which although it was 148 minutes long, had a budget of 8 million. Star Wars a new hope had a budget of 11 million, Wrath fo Khan was 12 million. But here is the real kicker, if you adjust for the 4 years of inflation, Wrath of Khans budget in 1978 would be just about 8 million. So BSG 78 was incredibly expensive for the time, yet for all that budget it does not hold up nearly as well in the FX department. And that's a big reason the show was cancelled, it was extremely expensive, and not getting good enough ratings to justify that expense. That being said, personally i think a bigger issue with BSG 78 wasn't the FX necessarily, but the art style. Too much of the art style form the hull details to the FX itself mimics Star wars way too much. Space combat in BSG just ended up feeling like Star wars just without shields. And this was something the 2004 series really did right, they made BSG stand out as something different. Now 2004 certainly had its own problems, not going to deny that, but making the art style less star wars and more its own thing was a good thing.

[@Riceball01]

@@ryuukeisscifiproductions1818 The thing is, movie level effects was still very expensive and time consuming until relatively recently with the advent of digital effects. Before then you had to shoot with physical models, often in different scales for different kinds of shots. And you could only film one at a time, carefully setting up each shot then shooting multiple passes to later composite using an optical printer, you couldn't simply pop it into a computer to do it. And back then, because it was all done manually, you weren't able to have entire teams of people working on multiple shots at the same time. Just watch some making of the original Star Wars trilogy videos or read some books on it and you'll see how laborious and time-consuming effects were at the time. Doing this on a TV schedule would have been near impossible, it simply took too long and cost too much. As far as the aesthetics go, the busy look with all sorts of paneling and random shapes all over was the standard for the time. It's called greebling and it was often done using random bits of model kits to create visual interest on the models they were making. It really wasn't until 3D models became more common in effects that the aesthetic went away, I suspect because, in large part, due to rendering and modeling time, the more polygons on your model the longer it will take to render. But with more powerful and faster computers, greebling has made something or a return, usually blending smooth surfaces with parts of the ship that has been greebled. In regard to the budget for Star Trek II, it was a ridiculously low budget, but it was still a movie and cost way more than any episode of any TV show even now. The budget for TWoK would have equaled, or exceeded the budget for an entire season of a TV show and would have greatly exceeded their FX budget. And in order to save money the entire exterior sequence of the Enterprise leaving spacedock was lifted directly from TMP. And they only had to do this for a ~2 hour movie over the course of months. When BSG first came out, TV seasons were 20+ episodes long and ~40 or so minutes each episode with only weeks to shoot each episode. To get new fX shots for every episode back then would have required the writers to have started writing episodes well before the season started shooting in order to give the FX team enough lead time to create the shots needed.

[@nicholaswalsh4462]

Production quality is more than just VFX. It's the writing, editing, storyboarding, episode air order, cinematography, things of that nature. The VFX hardly factors in. The 1930s film version of All Quiet on the Western Front is a timeless classic because every single metric of production quality was outstanding and that film is nearly 100 years old. The reimagined series is unlikely to be remembered as a show with poor production quality because it didn't have that issue. The VFX look dated but that's normal. The editing, cinematography, sound design, writing, and acting are, overall, VASTLY superior to the '78 show.

[@bdudzinski5948]

"Holy wall of flak" Simply amazing. So say we all!

[@katdoral5277]

I recall from an interview with the deadlock developers that the Artemis carries 64 Mark 2's, or 100 Mark 1's for a fighter compliment. It stood out to me because they gave such specific amounts, though I'm not sure when in the development they gave the interview.

[@Devillin]

The TV show version carried at least 4 squadrons, since in 3rd episode or so, Apollo and Starbuck pretended they were the leaders of two additional squadrons, and the Cylons didn't bat an eye. Then when the Pegasus faked its destruction, the Galactica picked up its two surviving squadrons. That brought them up to 6 squadrons of fighters.

[@shaeleable]

I seems to be like the original UK dreadnaught battleship design pre-ww1 - revolutionary with turtleback armor and center line main guns but initially limited until later designs, culminating in the US fast battleships like the new jersey with speed, guns, AA and an all or nothing armour design

[@LionlordEbonfire]

Though the Yamato Class would like to argue that it was the end of that line- with her main weaknesses being technology the Japanese did not have but made up with more powerful main guns, more armor and more …armor. both could be considered end of that line of battleship development.

[@shaeleable]

@@LionlordEbonfire the battleship new jersey channel compares the new jersey to yamato but the yamato was definitely the end of the super heavy battleships although the americans did have a similar design they never built due to the war ending

[@cp1cupcake]

​@@shaeleable I think the main issue the Yamato had technologically was that it was never updated with more modern systems like more advanced radar. The Japanese might not have the ability to add them, but it had what everyone else was capable of when it launched. It was also designed with a praticular goal in mind, that it would be able to beat a squadron of US/British interwar BBs, not per se to fight BBs as advanced as the Iowas.

[@magni5648]

@@cp1cupcake Funnily enough, there's quite some evidence that Yamato had in fact the capability for full radar fire controls. She notably accurately engaged several american ships through smokescreens during the Battle off Samar, including USS Gambier Bay. The issue is that existing documentation on the class is very limited and incomplete.

[@WolfsHaven]

I grew up watching the original series and I absolutely loved it. Lizard Cylons and all. When I originally heard about the changes they were making for re-imagined I was livid. Not only did I have a hard time seeing anyone other than Dirk Benedict as Starbuck, making him a chick was, sacrilege. I took a chance on it anyway, then Katee Sackhoff just nailed it. I was just blown away by the acting, the VFX, and the plot on the new show, that if it is considered THE canon now, I'm ok with it. I do kinda miss Imperious Leader and I wish they had brought on Jane Seymour for at least a few eppisodes, none the less, I love the re-imagined series as much if not more than the original.

[@davidthomas495]

I thought it was very cleaver making Starbuck a woman in the remake, when you concider how much of a womanizer the original character was. Katee did an awesome job recreating the character. It was character regendering done right, not the WOKE methodology of today. It goes to show that you CAN do it as long as it makes sence and contributes to the over all production, not just to further a political agenda. BSG replaced an African American male charater with a female minority one in Boomer, again, just added to the show without shoving it down our throats.

[@s3p4kner]

That's just it isn't it? We were all kids when we watched the original and while it was cool to be watching Star Wars every week, we were just children. We overlooked the plot, the cliches, the acting, the same VFX scenes replayed every single episode. But it has a special place in our hearts because we were children and have these memories attached to it. Then we grew up. A lot of the unnecessary aggro towards the 'remake' was imo down to people being unwilling to appreciate and remember the past, accept it was a childhood perspective, cherish it, and look forwards, to accept a new idea or approach, something new. You can't build the future by clinging to the past like we're drowning. Across so many genres I'm so tired of all the comments like "You're ruining my childhood!" Dude you're not 8 anymore, don't watch it if you feel that strongly! As an adult I found the new series a breath of fresh air, highly enjoyable and re-watchable. But I can still remember the original as something I enjoyed as a kid.

[@WolfsHaven]

@@s3p4kner "don't watch it"? That doesn't work either because when the new projects fail because we didn't spend our money on it, we're still the "bad guys". All we can do is make our voices heard so they correct the course, or just let it die because there isn't enough of a new audience watching it either. Unlike some other franchises that are more concerned with marking check boxes on thier social credit scorecard, the re-imagined creative team did their homework to do the original series justice while updating it for a new audience. More importantly they wrote a very compelling story that made you want more every week, even if it wasn't the same. You take something like Star Wars, well over half of the original fans have checked out, probably forever. Out of those that remain, it's split almost evenly between "destroy Disney" and "please Disney, just make Star Wars great again". If Disney can't make both camps happy like BSG did, they need to stop making Star Wars instead of wasting money and continuing to fuel the the flames by attacking fans.

[@Hallreaver]

@@WolfsHaven Well written, could not have said it better myself 🖖

[@JSRLPadre]

I remember reading somewhere that the design doc Glen Larson handed Ralph McQuarrie for the original Galactica design was, "Gila Monster mated to a tank." Because of the design choices of the new series, I've come to refer to the "alligator head" as the "warhead", personally. What's nifty about the original model: There appears to be a massive spinal mount A-10 type cannon along the ventral side of the Warhead that McQuarrie either forgot to mention to the rest of production, or they simply couldn't be bothered to budget effects around. I've stared at the chin of my Moebius Models Galactica for years, wondering if there was a completely missed opportunity for the Galactica/Artemis class to have been a kind of western Macross warship.

[@mikekopack6441]

The original BSG '78 had a LOT of charm and if they were to redo it today (with adequate budget and well planned out to get rid of stupid inconsistencies like constantly mistaking "system", "Galaxy" and "Universe", the various inconsistent "xxxx-ton" time/distance measurements), and a real long term plan, it could be VERY good. In fact if they had kept to the original "this will be multiple mini-series" plan it would have likely been much more successful... I preferred the lore around the original than the Ron D. Moore remake, although the remake was much easier to watch. The big thing with the 1978 version was that it wasn't so dark - even when they had their backs against the wall, it was a feel good buddy-buddy show and a story of hope and friendship and family (a mark of the times).

[@thomaswaters4963]

Well stated.I loved the feel of the original 1978 BSG.It wasn't so dark like the 2003 remake was.For it's time,the original was something that made me very excited to watch as a teenager.

[@ml5955]

100%

[@cp1cupcake]

Talking about the PD on this reminded me of a (paraphrased) conversation from WW2. Enterprise: I WANT MORE DAKKA. Retrofitters: I put all the guns that the ship can handle, if I put any more it will sink from the wieght. Enterprise: [reviewing ship specs].....can we take off the armor?

[@ArmouryTerrain]

I am a huge fan of the original, seeing the movie on the bigscreen at a drive-in, I have all the books which extend out the story and the dvd's even the Battlestar 1980. One of the the biggest problems- and yes there were many, is that the movie made money and they rushed into a series with no preproduction time and basically had to reuse footage from the movie over and over as there was no time to shoot new stuff. With that being said, I think that the Ronald D Moore vision was much better, and I for one am happy to consider them happening in alternative universes.

[@turbopokey]

Eww, only good thing about “Galactica 1980” was the episode “Return of Starbuck”. Otherwise it was a clusterfuq.😖 IMO

[@ArmouryTerrain]

@@turbopokey it was a try to make the show on a much smaller budget, sadly it never worked.

[@turbopokey]

@@ArmouryTerrain yeah, unfortunately. There was so much potential in the premise of trying to gear up earth for potential/inevitable Cylon invasion and it was totally squandered for “superkids!!” … 🤦‍♂️ just showrunners trying to skimp on paying for good writers I suppose.

[@kieranhosty]

ngl, never watched battlestar, though looking back at it, it seems to be the inspiration for a lot of things I like, especially the Expanse and the game House of the Dying Sun

[@s3p4kner]

It was just so well executed by people who knew what was needed and how to do it, they had to leave an impact. The remake was lead by one of Star Trek Next Gen and companion series writers (among his other achievements), the CGI was done by a couple of the original team from the company that did the space scenes in Babylon 5, the first show with fully CGI exterior shots, made with an Atari, then Star Trek DS9 and Voyager. One of those shows that had the right people at the right time and place.

[@admiralshadowofasunderedst3068]

The PDCs on battlestars are huge. Their have been people who have cacled them to be 90-110mms in size. They are definitely bigger than viper guns.

[@ThatEnglishGent]

Thank you for this video. The Artemis class is my favourite of the Battlestars and you've done a great job covering all the different aspects of the ship. Good job 👍🏻

[@Daginni1]

For the game, these things are glass cannons but omg if used right they are awesome fast Battlestars. I even had a fleet of them in the late game/DLC's. You can field FIVE of them, with the exact same Battlestar cannons that the state of the art Jupiter Battlestars have, and 2 squadrons, 1 missile launcher each ship. I would have 8 Vipers squadrons, 1 Raptor squadron (for DRADIS), 1 Sweeper squadron (for chaff/anti missile) I always kept them as far away from the action as possible, and even turned tail and boosted my engines as the Cylons chased, my support ship all the while slapping on armored plate to them to a left or right side, and deploying chaff/ECM's as I went. Cylon Raider fighters are first to die as they are intercepted with my 8 Viper squadrons; preferably before they got my fleets DRADIS info. Then I used my Vipers/Raptor to get DRADIS info on the Cylon fleet and soften them up with fighters/guided missiles. After a while of this softening up of the Cylons firepower, my Artemis's will form a flak line, turn broadside (to the reinforced armor side), and tear down whatever is left. I love the revised lore to add the original BSG type in as a proto Battlestar. I love using her. She is fun if you are clever enough to use her right. Use the tools you are given to the best of their abilities.

[@ranekeisenkralle8265]

23:40 Mostly only one or maybe two of them to a fleet? Well.. I remember when I played BSG-Deadlock I used to run one fleet that had three of these buggers stacked one atop the other with a bit of vertical spacing: Tyr, Thor, and Odin, plus a scout. . Needless to say the results were ...predictable. "Oh, you are shooting missiles at me? That's cute. Here.. have 'The allmighty Wall of Flak, blessed be its name' not just squared, but cubed." The fleet was rightly called Aesir's Wrath because it brought the thunder - and lots of it.

[@ashotinthedark3182]

the BSG'78 is like a B5 that can fly

[@Belligerent_Herald]

Point of order, the atlas lacked many things, armor wasn’t one of them. Which is convenient because it wasn’t going to be avoiding any fire.

[@nobodyimportant72]

If you're looking at the special effects for the OG BSG there's no question that it could use an update to add variety, but we can really say that about pretty much every older property. BSG may have just featured far more opportunities for it as I believe it had far more complex space combat scenes than anything contemporary. I mean wouldn't you like to see graphic updates to The Last Starfighter, B5, and some of the various Star Trek properties.

[@stevenewman1393]

👌😎👍Very cool and very nicely greatly well done and very informatively explained and executed in every detail way shape and format provided on the Artemis Class Battlestar and all of the various other vessels and fighters mentioned, A job very nicely wonderfully well done indeed Sir!.

[@wrayday7149]

Never knew about the FTL bubble nonsense... I just remember in the TV show they needed to retract them to keep enemy ships from getting critical hits inside the ship via the open hanger doors. As for retractable.. I mean, they could of put a rail system on the pods that the arms just turned a gear and retracted them.... they didn't need to dig into the hull or whatever. It's funny that they never made drop pods for the ships to change up mission roles... instead of hangers maybe more flak pods, missile pods, gun pods..... ah well.

[@DIEGhostfish]

If the pod crawled up the arms on rails the arms would jut into the pod.

[@henrycooper3431]

The pods actually have pdcs on them alongside the planes, the Pegasus and by extension the Mercury class even have cannons, planes and pdcs on it

[@The_Viscount]

Short version: ships are expensive. Unlike Starfleet, realistic retrofit are expensive. You don't just balance combat abilities. There's also cost to build and operate. Modifying an existing ship is a lot harder than designing a new one. In order to justify a refit, you need to improve the ship a good amount while keeping it cheaper than building a new design. Based on all the details Sci gives us about the Artemis flight pods and design, adding a retracting mechanism would involve gutting and rebuilding the ship. Even if you design the flight pods to climb the arms instead of the arms retracting, you're introducing significant moving parts and, unlike Galactica's mechanism, the crawler design you propose would have to be outside the main armor. As they are, the arms likely connect the flight pods to the main ship directly as part of the frame, so modifying that would involve cutting apart the ship's skeleton. Even if you can put it back together with no loss of durability, this drastically balloons the costs. See Imperial Japanese capital ships of the Kongo, Fuso, and Ise classes for real examples of "Starfleet Retrofits." Redesigning the pods to be detachable introduces even more problems. By not being a continuous structure, the process introduces new points of failure at the joints. Further, while swapping out individual weapons or mission equipment can work, it's very difficult to do even on small scales (see the American Litoral Combat Ships for reference). There's also the fact you then are building these alternate pod modules which is another whole cost. Based on size alone, the pods are each maybe 20% of the ship's volume. That means building 40% of an Artemis that just sits in a parking orbit collecting space dust until needed. All that material could instead build a functional escourt to cover the Artemis, and with two ships they can be in two places at once. See the big vs small carrier debate. Not the same, but relevant.

[@wrayday7149]

@@DIEGhostfish not up the arms, put a rail on the top of the pods and rotating gears on the bottom of the arms to retract and extend the pods.

[@garyreed6237]

I guess I'm showing my age by stating that I prefer Lorne, Richard, and Dirk over the remake. THE Battlestar Galactica.

[@ReconViper1]

Yes, that's the one and only Battlestar Galactica.

[@Alpha_Digamma]

I learned to dislike the Jupiters in Deadlock. Their shape limits firing arcs of its main guns, while the flat top of the Artemis allows its main guns basically a 360° firing arc. These beasts can charge at enemy lines and blast everything away, only having to turn to get their flaks in the way of missile barrages. The Jupiters more or less are limited to broadsiding or have to dive below targets to get their main guns into position.

[@23GreyFox]

And she is way too expensive for what little she actually offers, and she is horrible slow. I switched to Minervas for their better fire power with a Manticore as a AWACS corvette. With the right officer the Manticore can get around 16k DRADIS range.

[@richardtrue2758]

1987 version? Dude the original came out right before Star Wars try 1977 wow I'm old

[@gawainethefirst]

I think that’s 1978.

[@danielseelye6005]

He said '78 the first time, just flubbed it the second time is all.

[@23GreyFox]

The Minerva is a good Battlestar. I love to use 4 of them combined with a max level Manticore. The Minervas have a range and accuracy bonus on their weapons, while the Manticore can get a DRADIS range of 16k. You can see everything and kill most targets before they come too close to you.

[@kirahawkins3931]

All effects shots in 1978 BSG are old school models shot with very early motion controls. Really expensive at the time, hench the constant reuse of shots. No CG was available at that time. Cheers great channel!

[@ReconViper1]

I guess some people, including this channel, can't appreciate what's been done in the past with the limited resources of the time. Just roast them for not having decent CGI in 1978.

[@raymondhollingsworth3643]

TOS in the beginning was great! Then it was hit or miss.

[@JayneCobb88]

Ha! Love the send off. “Nerds in caves painting minis”. I totally would if I had the time. Instead I’m listening while unloading hay for my cattle then heading out to sell a boat I’ve been fixing up for a couple months. Keeping my nerdom on the DL

[@ChristopherSloane]

The chimp in the suit was cool, daggits / Muffit was cool. They were the protective dogs of that universe

[@Riceball01]

It was also the best that they could do at the time. Since this was before 3D modeling and animation, they had to do this practically. ether on set, or stop motion in post. Obviously,, on a TV budget and production schedule the most practical option was a suit. And for the suit to work you could only use a chimp or a child, a dog would not like being inside that suit.

[@The_Viscount]

The Artimis could still launch new viper designs, but they'd have to launch conventionally, like on the Atlas carriers. It was probably intended to be able to do this in the event the launch tubes failed or were inoperable. But, I doubt it had enough elevators on the flight deck to quickly cycle its fighters to meet an unexpected DRADIS contact. By contrast, the Atlas has that gaping maw of a hangar entrance, I infer that there's a significant open area inside the armor where ships are stored on multiple decks. Even if not, the Atlas would be designed with a multitude of ammunition and aircraft lifts/elevators because it was expected to launch and recover ships in a conventional way. With the Battlestar design, the point of the launch tubes is to both provide rapid insertion of entire wings if strike craft, and give them a better takeoff velocity. While you don't need to worry about lift in space, the old adage still applies that speed is life. The higher initial velocities of the launch tubes give viper pilots some extra survivability during the normally vulnerable takeoff. Without the tubes, the Artemis doesn't have as much to offer over some other, more specialized designs. That's my interpretation, anyway.

[@emberthecatgirl8796]

A missed opportunity would be transforming one of the hangars into weapon pods. A catapults is close enough to a railgun after all.

[@renegadeleader1]

I'll be honest, rewatching the reimagined series has actually made me appreciate the original series even more. I don't care how pretty nu-Galactica is or how cheesy the original stories could get, there is only so much bad writing, poorly thought out arcs made up on the fly, and ugly unlikable characters. You could tell by the second half of the second season the show runners had no idea what they were doing, or where they wanted to take the series and everything devolved into "So how are we going to screw with the Galactica this week?" and "What character can we make the audience despise this episode?" Nevermind the series ends on a literal cop out of "Meh, it was all an act of god."

[@TheIronbuster]

I dont like how accurat the outro was... I literally was here painting minis while lisen to this

[@DarkVeghetta]

I'd love for this channel to review EvE Online ships as well - a lot of great designs worth discussing in detail in that universe, with each faction having a specific estetic that matches their war ethos. Of course, speaking about such requires familiarity with the IP and the game itself, so I'm not sure if it's feasible unless the lead host (note: co-host was missing this episode; odd) happens to have actually played EvE online before. Regardless, great upload as always. I will point out a small flaw I did notice during the video: from 6:55 to 8:00, the speech-wave mysteriously flatlined.

[@thomaswaters4963]

The 1978 original BSG was a great show.I watched it as a teenager back then and I loved the series.Every episode had a feel good story to it and never took itself too seriously.The 2003 remake was very good as well though albeit alot darker and more serious than the original ever was.Be thankful that we ever had any TV series of BSG.Its a great story.

[@KrawmKruach]

as someone who watched the OG BSG when it was first aired, yes i am old, and someone who love s the original run it would be dishonest to say that the 70's disco scifi series wasnt cheesy and cringe in many ways when looked at from the lens of almost 50 years later. it is still a beautiful classic design that evokes the nostalgia of the OG series. any kid at the time wanted to be launched out the fighter bay in a viper and blow toasters into atoms. It is a design that still looks better IMHO than the jupiter class design from the reboot, dont get me wrong i loved that version too but the OG BSG will always be the GOAT.

[@John-fk2ky]

To be honest, I drastically prefer the original show to the reimagined one in terms of just watching it. Why? It's very simple. I absolutely hate most of the characters of the reimagined BSG. They either act like jackasses or idiots, and sometimes both. There's just not enough there for me to care about most of them individually because every time they give me something to like or be interested in, they turn around and tear it down by making the character act like an asshole when it doesn't make sense or a moron (which is always a bad thing) in their very next scene. The older characters don't always come across as the best ever made, but I'm not shouting "die already" at the screen on a regular basis with them, either. The same holds true for many of my favorite shows. The characters were LIKABLE. I ALWAYS wanted to see if they'll make it. The newer BSG main characters, not so much, particularly Kara and Lee. The other thing that the older show wins out on is that it's a lot less negative in tone. The new show just keeps beating you down and beating you down until I start asking "why the heck am I watching this anymore?". A little bit of unambiguous hope not deliberately undermined by SOMETHING would have been nice.

[@charlieturner5831]

Will you do a video on the Valkyrie class from Battlestar galatica?

[@thomaskline5164]

One of the cool things about the Artemis class is each flight pod are 2 1/2 times the size of of a Nimitz class aircraft carrier

[@franksposato6072]

Would love to see you break down how to understand Electronic Warfare and Cylon Hacking in this universe. It comes off as too much magic and no real explanation. What ships are used for this role? Also, modern militaries use special mission aircraft for a bunch of different roles, how would you see that kind of utility in the BSG universe? other than throw a Raptor at it.

[@phoenixmotorsport647]

You have to remember when the original was made, Im 53 and i was a very little kid when it aired

[@Leftatalbuquerque]

Flagship of the 12 Worlds' Warfleet, she was as large as a small planet, yet as swift as the Starhound Fighters she launched from her bays. For generations, the vast ship had led the thousand-year war against the Cylon for control of the known Galaxy. Now that war was in its last phase, and Galactica had one final mission, win or lose: blast through the deadly grid of the Cylon Starfleet and dash for deep space in a desperate attempt to find the legendary "Stonehenge" of the universe - the lost planet the ancient microfilms call "Earth". Glen Larson and Robert Thurston, 1978

[@emomuzz5883]

This is good to hear. From the 70s TV show you would swear that the gunners on the battlestars got kicked out of the Stormtroopers for their rotten marksmanship skills.

[@MsOpportunity68]

OCD nerd here, I take it you mean they de-canonized the 1978 original version, not the "1987" version that you mention at 2:45, as there wasn't one. Either that, or this was the deliberate error to make sure we are listening properly. :). Apart from that, enjoyable and informative video.

[@SiXiam]

I thought he just meant Galactica 1980.

[@Wolfman053a]

Artemis-class: Permission to exist in my sky: DENIED!

[@Kaiju-Driver]

Found this on accident. Great stuff. Looking forward to more.

[@ghandimauler]

Hey! The Dagnabit (as I called it) was still a trillion kms better than the 'Twiki' bot in the Buck Roger's TV show....

[@Riceball01]

FYI, the new BSG was not a remaster, it was remake or a reboot. A remaster is a process where you take an older form of media (show/movie, game, song) and clean it up, make it look cleaner, brighter, sharper, etc. for re-release. You this a lot with older movies that haven't seen a new home release in decades. So they take the original master print, the one that they use to make all home video and, now, streaming versions from and clean it up, making it look as close as possible to how it looked when it first came out in theaters and, often, to look good on modern TVs and things like Blu-Ray and 4K.

[@admiralcasperr]

Deadlock scales the Jupiter's PD to 16 turrets, so it would be about a 36 to 1 scale. The Artemis has the same number, so it would stand to reason thatit would have a similar number of PD guns as the Jupiter.

[@richardhinshaw2116]

My understanding was that the original show was distinguished from the revamp by referring to the original as 'Battlestar Galactica, while the revamp is called 'BSG'.

[@charleshenderson5951]

I think it carries 100 vipers. I believe that on the original BSG a squadron was 25 vipers. I think that you can see the actual number on the shots of the vipers lifting off from Caralon. Also during Starbuck and Apollos deception of the basestar on Caralon, they reference 6 squadrons. Atena says that two of those squadrons aren't from the Galactica.

[@AngryDuck79]

HEY! I'll have you know I'm re-watching Enterprise right now, you doof.

[@Jacen32272]

CG?!? in 1978?!? Yeah, right. All miniatures and practical effects here. Considering the budgets available at the time compared to the number of total screen hours, we're luck we got as many effect shots as we did. I was born in 1972. The original BSG was a BIG part of my latter pre-teen years along with the original Star Wars. I prefer the campy fun of the original over the mindscrew of the remake. Did the new version have more and better effects? Yes. But the original did a better job of portraying an alien if recognizable culture in my opinion, and the old Cylons were, within the limits of the effect technology of the time, excellent faceless robot minions for the heroes to shoot with abandon. I'm not saying the new version isn't a good show; I'm saying the original isn't a bad one. Still, if you want to look into a new old show, look up what the 1980's did to Buck Rogers sometime.

[@georgejones8784]

Well, for Star Wars, the animated trench run that was proposed for the attack was CG. Rendered, then shot frame by frame on film, then played. It apparently took quite a bit of time to render each frame before it was shot.

[@Jacen32272]

@@georgejones8784 And those wireframe graphics were the upper limit of what could be done at the time. Not too different from those of the old arcade game Asteroids...

[@Kokubetsu]

Presumably the smallish crew of the Artemis compared to the Jupiter is because of the networked systems.

[@nickpond9337]

Thank You 4 the Re cap , . it took awhile to find it and then get a Copy that would work in the U , K . but l like BLOOD and CROME .

[@raybarlow8823]

Nice informative video; plus, I love the FTL background music!

[@joseluissalguero6478]

😮😮😮😮 yo soy fan de galactica desde que se estreno la película en españa en el mes de diciembre de 1978 y tenía 10 años me regalaron esa navidad la maqueta de monogran del galactica y la nave base cylon así como la maqueta del viper colonial y el caza cylon y esto fue lo que me decidió a que me hicieracpiloto militar del ejército del aire y del espacio español ingrese en 1986 en la academiacgeneral del aire de san javier y en 1991 recibí mi despacho de teniente he sido piloto de ef18a+ y actualmente soy general de brigada del ejército del aire y del espacio español 😮😮😮😮

[@ramblingwithrustyelm3901]

It's mentioned in the information about the '78 version that, while she only had two to field, the Galactica could carry 4 squadrons of Vipers. I think its reasonable to infer that the "re-imagined" version would have a very similar compliment.

[@nikademuswtf]

old technical material that came out shortly after the movie and the 78 tv series stated Galactica carried "around" 75 fighters. A low # I always thought. The figure was based on the design, not the situation after the destruction of the other battlestars.

[@1duncantalks659]

hi, I have the original Battlestar hand book. each battlestar carried 175 to 190 viper fighters and several different Auxiliary ships.

[@paulbeaney4901]

I completed Deadlock with fleets of 5 of these ships and a Manticore. I would stack them in a 3 and a 2. I even had the points to equip nukes. I would use the manticor as a suicide scout. I would fly it straight in full speed, lob its nuke, then use it as a kamikaze. All the while, i have 10 viper 2 Squadrons flying in, and all 5 battlestars going full flack defensive.

[@GamerKatz_1971]

Neat thing about "Lore". If you are running a game like a TRPG, the lore is whatever you say it is. :)

[@Leftatalbuquerque]

The original was the best. I have the models. I am now 58, but when I was 14, I LOVED Battlestar Galactica.

[@chrish522]

Ha! Watching TNG for the 40th time, you know us so well.

[@TheJosep70]

Great video. Now I don't feel like rewatching BSG, but I sure feel like playing FTL once again.

[@bryanthompson7801]

You know...... I saw the original movie and I thought they explained that, as the war with the cylons went on and on, the Battlestars were getting bigger and bigger, it was becoming impossible to keep escalating the Battlestars were the size of three class "M" planets. ( I'm probably wrong about the size ) In the TV series, they encountered " The Eastern Alliance " when taking a captive back to the Galactica, the prisoner was amazed he could see it from soon far away and Starbuck said : that my friend, is a Battlestar. So how big is the Battlestar ? It seems like every video comparing different spaceship sizes always undersizes it.

[@adanfuenets3148]

When talking about fighters i tend to glanced at what we know about the Jupiter and mercury in canon vs what was abstracted for Gameplay. Plus some utter nerds figuring out the number of craft on the TOS Galatiaca. This comes out to being 75 Vipers to start with and by the end the Galactica is carrying nearly 150 Vipers (plus 12 landing craft and 12 space shuttles) and has 16 viper tubes on each side. Compared to the Jupiter class which has 40 viper launch tubes (20 on each side) meaning at minimum it carried 80 vipers, most likely more. This is when considering that Galactica originally carried 10 Squadrons of mixed Viper and Raptors each with 10-16 pilots each. Meaning at max where looking at like 160 Vipers, or more likely 100 vipers and 30 raptors in normal operational strength due to note of mixed squadrons existing. (which funny enough if your converting gameplay states things line up nicely) This means that a Artemis class would carry anywhere form 75 vipers and 24 raptors, or as many as 150 when pressured into that role but can still carry the other transports. This same logic also applies to the Jupiter and Mercury (Which itself can carry around 200 active and 100 reserve Vipers.) All and all the Artemis really is just the smaller predecessor of a Jupiter class. Although even when you remove the fancy laser weapons the TOS Galactica can field almost twice as many Vipers as the NBSG Galactica, if only because the second flight pod was turned into a museum effectively cutting it's max compacity to just 80 fighters and 16 Raptors. All in all the Artemis carries a decent flight of fighters to be respectable. Here's another fun breakdown by a fan over the fighter strength of Galactica. Plus the source for TOS numbers, they mention the episodes from the series these numbers are given. www.reddit.com/r/BSG/comments/yavdv6/how_many_vipers_did_galactica_carry/ = www.tecr.com/galactica/capships/battlestar.htm

[@richardknight259]

in 79 i read somewhere that the galactica had 4 squadrons of vipers. how many vipers per squadron i do not remember, that was a long time ago.

[@rockycassiano4756]

Original series: Battlestar Galactica was one of the oldest battlestars. Last episode: it still had some of the visual observation pods to plot course by site, not computer. ................... So, it was up-gradable............ Read the book on the original pilot. ; p

[@CrashCraftLabs]

"no one expects their kitchen to rebel against them one morn" muahahahaha sooo true

[@leohalivan861]

Hey now!!! I don't know who you think you're insulting, young man. Have you not heard yet? It's hip to be square.

[@Revan41411]

Here a tip for bsg deadlock for a good chunk of the campaign you can easily win any battle with either a pair of Artemis or a full fleet of manticore

[@nikademuswtf]

a 2nd fun fact, of the old technical material that derived from the original 70s movie was that the Battlestar was primarily depicted as a "floating aircraft carrier in space", hence the original model is devoid of obvious heavy gun/missile emplacements. However as the series progressed, there were specific references and action sequences referencing "forward laser batteries", and multiple missile launchers. (the latter using USAAF footage of launches). For the most part in the series and movie though, the fighter complement was portrayed as the BS's primary offensive and defensive weapon supplemented by an unstated # of point defense lasers, depicted as dual emplacements with a turret like lower device combined with a faster, flexible upper mount. While for nostalgia sake, along with just loving the look of the original battlestar, I tend to favor the 70s canon of which the Cylons were very different from the reimaged 2000s series......I will admit to loving one great aspect of the re-imagined Galactica. I was surprised it was only mentioned in jest as an Orc headbutt here. That being the tendency for starships of the period always having their CiC/bridge on top of the ship like a naval vessel....where it can be taken out rather easily. (Star Trek or Star Wars anyone?). The re-imagined Galactica had it's bridge/CiC buried deep inside the ship....no windows, shielded by heavy armor and bulkheads. Makes total sense for a space fairing vessel. You want a view? great......a secondary bridge for non combat situations. But when the fur starts flying, you want your command and control as heavily shielded as possible.

[@nikademuswtf]

just to cover the bases, i'm rewatching the original movie. (ah nostalgia)......67 fighters recovered.....25 of them Galactica's own. (after getting but kicked by the Cylons)

[@austindavies6371]

1.25 If your talking about the first film best close the blast shield now then show the Daggit to the airlock while shouting "Walkies". If your talking about the series then im right behind you!

[@sithsquid1]

What are all these different battlestars from? I don't remember them from the series. Great fan theories, I love them.

[@MrLorenzovanmatterho]

The Battlestar Galactica annual says it carries 75 Vipers plus a dozen shuttles. However the Galactica recovered many fighters from other destroyed Battlestars, on Carilon the Cylons say there are 250 pilots although they may share ships between them. In the final ep Adama comments that they will be outnumbered 2 to 1 when they take on a Base ship with 300 Raiders.

[@ReconViper1]

Interesting that the original Battlestars stats are nearly identical to a Star Destroyer.

[@tmhmw]

Liked the video. Forgive me I don't comment at all or ever, but i was laughing and learning to this video. I can understand you not liking the "78" BSG but being someone who was only like 11 years old back then (yes I am an old F@$%&R). It was the best they could do. If you want to talk about crappie BSG watch "Galactica 1980" even being a sci-fi nerd back then I wanted to throw my Twiki action figure from Buck Rogers through the TV. If I remember right one of the characters was a grown up Boxy. and the script writers even changed his name. Keep up the great work I am off to watch some of your other videos.

[@paulrasmussen8953]

The og bsg is the canon. The later show is a remake NOT a remaster

[@oldtabrough1026]

My favourite space ship model is still the Eagle from Space 1999 followed by this B Galactical ship

[@williampickering1854]

My boy is dropping facts at the end there

[@Boki10]

I actually like the og bsg show the original 10 planed episodes when it was just supposed to be a miniseries were really good the other episodes sucked tho

[@connorbennett1517]

Agreed at the end with Basestar and Centurion but there is no way you can say the flying saucers are better than the pincer design of the new Raiders.

[@Werrf1]

I still love the design of the original _Galactica_ way more than the remake. The remake unquestionably has the better story and production, no question at all, but that blocky 1970s aesthetic? Unbeaten.

[@ReconViper1]

Looks like it could have come right out of Kuat Drive Yards.

[@bryanbishop2377]

I do prefer the 1970's Battlestar design...

[@SamGray]

I blame a throwaway line from Star Wars for creating the concept, "snub" fighter. Is there a non-snub fighter? C'mon. It's a fighter. Snub was a joke that they were small, not a specific type or role of fighters.

[@scienceinsanity6927]

Vipers are pretty small my guy. Significantly smaller than real world jet aircraft.

[@mdtdragon]

The concept of using lasers in the original BSG was great when I was 16 on it's original broadcast. When I was older then 17, It was terrible in its origination, while the new BSG introduced that was light years worst. The TOS Battlestars was so much better, Vipers, Baseships, Raiders where good. The upgraded Baseships, Cylons, Raiders, Vipers are much better. I like the storyline of how they make a 1st Cylon war, and how the Military and Government F'ed up the peace treaty.

[@barrybend7189]

Good old original design.