Chair Challenge Explained! Math Dad vs Science Mom

[@benjaminwingchun9665]

torso length and hamstring flexibility also makes a huge difference, he still struggled cause his hamstrings didnt allow him to move away from the wall as apposed to mums

[@tommysuhlami6241]

And his lumbar looked absolutely mangled. It looked painful for him to bend over. Something is wrong there 🤔

[@toddwinters7066]

When this first came out in the 1970’s , we were told that it was due to muscles that were needed during child birth. . That men naturally didn’t have or weren’t naturally stronger .

[@Darcstarr]

My theory was center of balance on males is at a different spot than women's. I thought that feet would generally grow to match the balance from the center area of a human.

[@yessum15]

I think you've got the wrong answer. The reason Dad was able to do the movement by placing his feet closer to the wall is because he was *no longer executing the same movement*. The challenge is designed to test your ability to perform a weighted hip extension (making the 90 degree angle at the hip into a 180 degree angle). The key is that both your back and legs must be relatively straight. By stepping closer to the wall, Dad was able to curve his back and execute the movement by doing a spinal extension (rolling up the back) rather than a hip extension. This is an entirely different move. The purpose of taking two steps back is that men's larger feet will generally correspond to their longer torsos, making the hip angle at which their heads touch the wall relatively equivalent to the same angle in women with smaller feet and shorter torsos. This makes the challenge roughly fair across genders. By forcing them to swap positions, Mom was forced to tip unnaturally forward to reach the wall, and Dad was allowed to curve his back and still reach the wall. They are now in entirely different starting positions and the challenge is no longer fair. The effect of center of gravity difference in men and women is negligible for this particular movement. The more key determinant is hip mobility (the flexibility and strength of the posterior chain as well as the propioceptive conditioning). Women tend to recruit their hips and posterior chain in performing everyday activities moreso than men. As such, even an out of shape woman will instinctively execute the proper moment pattern and recruit the proper muscles to do the challenge successfully. Men do not, and therefore fail the challenge more often. Why do women recruit their hips and posterior chain naturally moreso than men? A number of reasons, mostly biological, some social. 1) Childbearing potential requires anatomical features that naturally improve hip mobility and functional hamstring flexibility. 2. Weaker upper body strength means that to generate functional strength and power they will resort more often to hip recruitment. 3. Womens clothes tend to be more forgiving of these type of maneuvers. 4. Men tend to avoid precisely the sort of exercises that would correct this imbalance (pilates, yoga, etc) whereas women gravitate toward these exercises. And so on.. Notice that Dad was not even able to enter into the initial position without tipping forward. If your hamstrings and glutes are insufficiently flexible as to hold a relatively passive 90 degree bend at the waist, how do you expect to be able to recruit those muscles for work in this position? Case in point, I am a 6ft top heavy man with large feet. This implies a high COG and greater distance from the wall. However, I can still execute this challenge (and more difficult variations) fairly easily. There are plenty of videos of other men executing this challenge. Furthermore, even at the outliers women with high centers of gravity are still able to execute the challenge more easily than men with low centers of gravity. This trick is sometimes used to demonstrate differential COG to children because it appears to support the premise and children generally won't question it. However, it is more a demonstration of differential hip & posterior chain mobility as a result of sex-based anatomical difference and gendered habits.

[@ScienceMom]

Love this! Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

[@pholomotshidisi845]

Wow... this totally changed my perspective. Thanx

[@thorodinson7467]

That doesn't make sense, my mom could do it and I couldn't. For perspective, I'm an above average hurdler with very loose hamstrings who can deadlift 315. I couldn't do it

[@yessum15]

@@thorodinson7467 I'd have to see video tape of your attempt to get a clear idea of what's going on here. There will certainly be individuals whose body geometry will represent outlier examples. For instance, if you have long limbs and strong legs (as many track & field athletes do), you may be optimized to execute a deadlift with a reduced range of motion at the hips, as your body will treat the lift primarily as a leg press/shoulder retraction movement, as opposed to a hip hinge. This challenge requires full posterior chain mobility, which includes the glutes, hips, and back in addition to the hamstrings. Runners often do not emphasize training this, as most sport specific gains can be achieved with deadlift variations requiring a more limited range of motion at the hips (eg: trap bar & leg dominant standard deadlift). In this case, the likely solution would be to train Romanian & very stiff leg deadlift variations (possibly on a block depending on the length of your arms) in order to improve hip mobility while removing your legs from the equation. Deep weighted "Good Mornings" would also be useful (using very light weight). These could be useful exercises to incorporate for general fitness, but may be contrary to the goals of your sport specific training in the short term. Alternatively, this could be a matter of poor technique when executing the challenge, as a result of being way *too* hip dominant (this is a far less likely scenario). If you are exaggerating the hip hinge and sending your hips too far back when you hinge, then you'd be functionally moving your head _away_ from the wall. This would force you to tilt forward to make contact with the wall, compromising your balance. An affinity for this type of movement would be marked by solid (hip dominant) deadlift numbers, accompanied by relatively weak leg press numbers. A good way to see this, is to record yourself doing barbell "Good Mornings" and track the position of your head in relation to your feet. Again, I'd have to see video in order to understand what's going on, but it sounds like this may be an instance in which outlier geometry is being reinforced by the imposition of particular sport specific demands. Btw, try it barefoot and see what happens.

[@camilledioneda9239]

@@thorodinson7467 I heard that some women, especially who are athletic cannot do it.

[@ylosparagways1720]

I tried it four ways, one with chair with the usual two steps And I could not stand up. Again with the chair I moved very little towards the wall and I was able to do it. The third one the usual two steps and without the chair and I was not able to stand up. The fourth without the chair but moved little towards the wall and was able to lift myself up. The farther you are from the wall the more difficult it is to stand up, with or without the chair.

[@ScienceMom]

Nice experimenting! You are 100% correct.

[@excelzimba]

My feet are not small but I did it too, I think it has more to do with the size of your torso in relation to your Lower body.

[@miss_anonymousx4975]

Yeah I think that’s correct

[@leonethepwny]

If you have strong calves and hamstrings you can do it. I'm 6'1, 92kg size 13UK feet I can do it with multiple weights and sizes of chairs. The only tension I feel is my calves initially.

[@ScienceMom]

Interesting!

[@dianalewis2857]

It is really simple...there is just not as much in their heads...this makes it easy to lift! 😂

[@nakaharaindria]

I don’t know if this related or not but when I did this, I made my body stand up by using the muscles around my hip and inner thighs (or at least those muscles were the one that I felt actually moving). I told my brother to do the same, but he just said he couldn’t and relied heavily on his back to make his body stand up (and he couldn’t do the challenge).

[@NathanSaga]

Took me few tries to do it. Different variations of this challenge and it is possible in any way.

[@chucktheruiner588]

Thank you that's been driving me nuts since second grade

[@snuker650]

I told my English teacher to do this just now and hes tall with big feet and he was able to do it. The feet part is correct in my oppinion but I also think if you have strong legs and core strength you can do it cuz he was able to go it. Also I had like 5 girls do it and they all failed. So you have to be strong enough to catch yourself to do it.

[@ScienceMom]

Physical strength and ratio of torso to leg length definitely play a big role. If someone didn't have a strong enough core to stand up after bending forward, then if course they wouldn't be able to do it, etc. But, muscle strength and torso/leg ratios being more or less equal, you can see a significant difference between two people who are of similar height but have different feet sizes.

[@snuker650]

@@ScienceMom yup that's why my teacher was able to do it. He works at a gym aswell so he exercises often.

[@ADUAquascaping]

@@ScienceMom Yeah but if they have the same foot size, torso length, and height, and one can do it and one cannot, then it has to do with weight distribution and leg strength. It isn't always about foot size. That's only one way of interpreting the results.

[@loriefranceschi2590]

the biggest is that a female's center of gravity is in ther hip area and a male's center of gravity is in the torso area. much easier to lift torso and head using a lower center of gravity where your strength is located.

[@pholomotshidisi845]

The shoes also extend the distance from the wall even more. I can pick up a chair when I'm not wearing shoes. But with shoes, the distance is extended, so I cant.

[@turgutu8507]

You have right man i can do it barefoot but with shoes i can't.

[@kendrickseeber8706]

That dude taught me calculus

[@neuwarakgajane7176]

I understood you to be saying that the distance from the wall is what makes men to be unable to pick the chair because of their bigger feet size. Doesn't this observation imply that short men will be able to complete this challenge and tall women will struggle? I stand to be corrected

[@L._Diaz]

I'm a Science teacher and my husband's a high school math teacher. 👍❤

[@cynthialeedeboer4911]

Love it, have tried it with my hubby and you're so right, Thanks for sharing:-)

[@davidedwardstruegospel2492]

Thanks for the presentation and the detailed explanation. Great video 👍🏽

[@MyChannel-en5wc]

Don't forget the difference in flexibility. That'll contribute to shifting the COM.

[@aprilkhaito]

42,000 views! 🥳 You’re KZbin famous!

[@spudskie3907]

I’ve seen this done with shoes and without. With shoes adds 6” distance to the wall. I can’t with shoes, but can without.

[@kyriakos50]

Improper muscular recruitment pattern, weight has to be shifted to the back of the heels, this activates the posterior chain. Your not suppose to press of your toes, they should be anchored to the ground. People who deadlift would never have this problem. Also a combination of upper body weight in comparison to woman also makes it difficult. Woman are much more reliant on their posterior chain, particularity in the glutes and hamstrings. Untrained woman generally would have better muscle activation then an untrained man due to to lack of lower back and upper body strength, this is due to dependency. The distance from the wall also does influence the difficulty, but it is not the main point of concern.

[@SuzzetteBuxo]

My husband and I did it from the same distance of his feet and still he could not do it.

[@penguinpie5056]

i was able to do this and I'm a guy. I have quite small feet relative to my height though as I'm a size 9 but over 6'2". actually my true size is 8.5

[@christinaweight1619]

Cool. Thanks for explaining.

[@riggertony9204]

lol maybe turn the chair so you aren't trying to lift it into your gut. LOL

[@ScienceMom]

😂 It turns out that how you have the chair oriented doesn't change how easy (or difficult) it is to lift, but it definitely looks easier if the chair is positioned sideways.

[@allenniner8198]

@@ScienceMom you are right I turn my chair like that and I couldn't stand up

[@saldivar480171]

I swear on my life im a 25 year old male. I just did it. It wasn't easy, but maybe its more of a sign of weaker back muscles. My brother couldn't do it. Hes an office worker and im an infantrymen.

[@theoneed2051]

You can tell she's going to be able to do it when her hip, bent at 90 degree'ish is begind her feet, his hips are in front of his feet. He'll never be able to lift as long as his hips are in front of his feet.

[@sairashomefacial2961]

I gave a try and it's as per conclusion

[@Attack-fb5rj]

I can take two steps and add 10 cm and still do it. - Man

[@Colonist83]

Same, I didnt get it because I was able to do it but not others

[@elfen2081]

0:38 and 1:03 look at the difference in feet position relative to the spongebob picture in the background, that should show it pretty well

[@kolmasvarvas]

I did try this myself, to be honest it wasnt that hard. Im finnish male, age 27, shoesize 45 european, 187.5cm and 110kg. My theory is, if you have long torso compared to your feet you should be able to do this quite easily.

[@ScienceMom]

Thanks for sharing! It is all about the ratio of foot length to body height.

[@skallywagzzz]

That’s freaky you’re my height and weight and I’m very long torso’d 😬😬

[@ADUAquascaping]

No, because my feet are bigger than men who are taller than me and I can easily do this. It has to do with weight distribution more than angle. Men with naturally muscular legs can do this easily.

[@Ryan62751]

Seriously smaller feet, this is phycological and being totally unfit than anything else. I went over 90 degree and was still able to stand

[@ScienceMom]

But if you move your feet 4 inches further back from the wall, are you still able to stand? Distance from the wall makes a big difference in how challenging it is to stand back up.

[@Ryan62751]

@@ScienceMom yes I was still able to stand

[@YukonDan]

This exercise has everything to do with GLUTE STRENGTH. Go do a ton of romanian deadlifts or kettlebell swings and come back and try again.

[@yessum15]

@@YukonDan More specifically posterior chain mobility. The ability to recruit these muscles (glutes, hams, etc) within the required range of motion is more important that the intrinsic strength of those muscles. RDLs will improve strength & mobility simultaneously. But for a totally untrained person, i tend to recommend they start with something like Pilates just so that they get good at spinal bracing before attempting an RDL.

[@YukonDan]

@@yessum15 absolutely!

[@miguel-pg4ru]

hahahah click this to watch math dad struggling 1:49

[@TaSSAdunAiur]

0:41 vs 1:09 so lame, the head is not in the same position

[@dougking2864]

I would like to disprove the theory of men verses women reason for not being able to achieve the chair challenge. I am a dancer and a male and not only CAN I do this challenge, I have tested my theory on over five hundred college and high school students. After explaining the consept, 90% of those who could not lift the chair initially,could do it after learning the physics behind it. The concept is, simple, the body has to work like a crane built for lifting many times its own weight. What is needed is understanding the flat back concept. When most people, athletes and men especially bend over to pick up something they put the weight back in the glutes through the heels causing the back to round over. This is great for picking up heavy things but lean against the wall and now all your weight is pushing forward into the wall. Dancers and most women ( I have had many women who could NOT do this challenge on the first try) will bend at the waist, like a crane. THE FIX IS, before bending over, rise slightly in your toes to get the weight through the shins and toes, bend over flat back. Now the weight is forward in the feet pushing back away from the wall and makes the challenge easy. I will say one thing- those with very tight hamstrings or a natural curve in the spine were not able to find the flat back position and unable to lift the chair, thus further proving this theory.

[@audreylively3035]

5'3", size 10 shoe, proportionately longer legs, very short torso. No trouble whatsoever.

[@ScienceMom]

Torso to leg ratio is another factor that definitely makes a difference! We produced this video quickly and didn't think to mention that, but it definitely plays a big role.

[@zacharykendrick2957]

@@ScienceMom Size 15 shoe, 6'1'' 190lbs, this is damn near impossible. Thanks for explanation, found on facebook, and it stumped me. Thought it had

[@excelzimba]

Same

[@pitbear67]

I'm a guy and did this with no problem and I wear 12's. It's center of gravity and also foot strength. In order to keep your heels on the ground, for a guy, you must have strong toes or you will tip forward. It's the same as having strong hands and fingers for rock climbing.

[@LLAmozi]

you know what they say about big feet? Can't lift on a folcrom

[@ScienceMom]

Get our science calendar in time for the holidays! www.kickstarter.com/projects/sciencemom/science-mom-explains-the-atmosphere?ref=22gpz7

[@001-q3u]

Look where your feet are and his feet are. This should be called long feet challenge.

[@D_A-G]

It's all about center of gravity and where you stand. Men's feet are longer than women, etc.

[@melissam.6582]

Dreams crushed everywhere ✨😂

[@jodieforder8622]

It has nothing to go with foot size or hight as my dad did it and he's size 9 feet n he's 6"2 n my partner is size 9 and 6foot n he couldn't do it so and he's also the same sort of build and weight

[@Kazekage71]

Jodie Forder There is no way in hell that your dad is 6'2" with size 9 feet. Somebody lying.

[@jodieforder8622]

@@Kazekage71 well he is n I know because I have bout him boots n I know he's 6foot 2 cos I'm 6 foot n he's taller then me plus I'm 6 foot with size 4 feet ...

[@jodieforder8622]

UK size btw

[@Kazekage71]

Jodie Forder oooh! Didn't know you were UK. Sorry 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@jodieforder8622]

@@Kazekage71 yeah us sizes are wired lol

[@jtlsuk]

If three times your foot length is more than the length of your upper body and head (‘chair challenge ratio’), then you can’t do it. Some men have a very long torso so they can do it too, and they’re not off balance when they’re bending over.

[@davidslater3987]

1:33 So, if you watch Math Dad and _me_ - Pedantic English Guy

[@ScienceMom]

Correct! 😊 My mistake. 😉

[@davidslater3987]

@@ScienceMom ❤️

[@wellersmate]

You didn’t bring the chair to your chest. The back of the chair goes sideways

[@Bak2BasiKs]

isnt this basically about flexible hamstrings and being able to touch your feet ?

[@munsters2]

Thanks for the explanation. It is what I figured. Women have smaller feet and men have more mass above the waist. I bet crane operators understand this well.

[@KidsFunScience]

very fun and love learning something new everyday. BIG like 218 and sub

[@ScienceMom]

Thank you!

[@bignarro]

im a woman. and im 6.2... so it's not the center of mass or height. its hips.

[@savannahworth2495]

Looks like your husband stood up first and then picked up the chair. Also, shouldn't the chair be facing the other way?

[@jessichardon8080]

Tested! It's BS

[@aymnali9256]

Amazing

[@cherwilson0028]

Nawwwww I wear a womens size 11 which is a men's size 8.5 to 9. I am only 5'10 and a guy of the same height and shoe size could not do it. If you see all the videos. Men seem to have longer legs a d a shorter torso as well. It's a combination of both foot size and torso length

[@ScienceMom]

Torso vs leg length defintiely plays a role! I'm curious if the person who was had the same height and shoe size as you also had similar proportions with their torso/leg length? Do you think it was just a difference in muscle strength or do you have a shorter torse and longer legs?

[@nelsonmandela9217]

he could do it easily without shoes

[@mokosz]

honestly i tried it at home and i swear im a man did it easily

[@benjaminfolk3027]

What size shoe do you wear?

[@mokosz]

@@benjaminfolk3027 44 eu

[@HA-vv3lw]

I tried it many times and I was successful. I’m 5’ 7’’ and have a long torso and large feet 43-44 or 9.5-10 US shoe size. I guess that’s the secret behind it.

[@Capt.Noob23]

I'm 5' 5" and feet size 41.5 and i can do it with ease

[@Naghmara]

Turn the chair around, so you can lift it all the way up to your chest, try again. Nothing to do with smaller feet, me and fiancee tested this and the difference was enormous. And ye, we have pretty much the same foot size. xD

[@anthonyflores7182]

if your feet are larger take shorter steps

[@ScienceMom]

If you move a few inches closer to the wall, it definitely changes from "impossible" to "easy" -- but if you aren't two full foot lengths from the wall then you aren't really doing the chair challenge, are you?

[@snti11i]

Cool 😆

[@jnaneshpuni8303]

Ohh

[@ivanaivana7115]

Respectfully, but you're wrong. I tried an experiment with my son that was smaller than me. No, he can't. Try your feet against the wall. It's impossible.

[@kanesilverbackegjsavagewbaltim]

It's the feet because I took 3 steps no but I did 2 steps yes

[@thegeostigma]

I honestly think this is a joke. I wear 50's (16 US) and I have no problem doing this. If someone should be handicapped by their large feet, it's people like me :D Oh and I'm a guy.

[@kashphlinktu]

Big oversized shoes put you farther from the wall. If he did it barefoot it would be easy.

[@brandonbitchsingha]

The womans leg is under the chair, and didnt show the footsteps taken unlike the man did.

[@akumafang]

Im a guy and i can do it?

[@MRBJT51]

I'm 50 this has been around since I was a kid. It was explained in the 80's as something to do with a woman's pelvis and how it's made for childbearing....some shyt like that. Just saying.

[@CoggsCircus]

Some shyt that's valid...

[@jonathanpopham5483]

romanian deadlift

[@johnwilliams4326]

Because men have bigger feet, so there further off the wall, which makes them lean fwd...

[@mayhem3218]

As a man did it wasn’t as smooth but lower back and core is all u need this is bull

[@Ready4R]

well, women have a back shot advantage.... j/k great video... now the alphabet community may take issue with this... "j/k" aaaagain.................

[@saibajinzero]

No! U listen i am a guy i can do this

[@felicianomiko5659]

I have big feet for a woman and I can do this.

[@punjabmeller]

I am a man and i did it easy

[@mathieugervais501]

wow ok there 2 reason he failed 1 he faked or 2 he has no sqine or a huge belly

[@n1r1d15]

So woman with big feet cant

[@carolschumacher71]

Huh. I like thinking women are stronger..