How to Pronounce Latin (Scanning Prose: Cicero in Catiline) / De Latine Pronuntiando (Prosa)

[@UserOfTheZune]

I think my favorite part of watching your videos that are purely in Lingua Latina is that I get to see your personality come through in a language that most people don't get to hear in a lively sense. It's really cool to me that you are able to, I'd assume, do some back and forth and correct yourself and describe to us, in Latin, while there is no script you read off of, which often makes these types of lessons dry and unpalatable. Yours is bringing to life this beautiful language and despite only reaching Capitula Quinque in Pars 1 Familia Romana, if I close my eyes and listen, I can often times understand your meaning, even if I'm unable to parse the specific cases and declensions of the words used. Thank you so much, Magister Scorpio Martianus!

[@ScorpioMartianus]

That's a really high compliment! Thanks so much. I'm glad my videos help!

[@adamclark1972uk]

@Jerome Neita Why would we want to do that? That's kind of creepy and icky behaviour.

[@westonjaxx7286]

Sorry to be off topic but does anyone know of a way to get back into an Instagram account?? I was stupid lost my login password. I love any assistance you can give me!

[@jaredrobert9709]

@Weston Jaxx instablaster :)

[@westonjaxx7286]

@Jared Robert i really appreciate your reply. I found the site through google and Im in the hacking process now. Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will get back to you later with my results.

[@marilynbouziane5530]

Sounds like you are singing.. What a beautiful language, for me it's like a soft Italian.

[@johnmilius3031]

22:30 That's what I'm here for!

[@PKyoshi]

One of your videos showed up in my recommendations two days ago. Today I first turned off subtitles because I'm able to make out what you're saying by context. Its incredible how 'easy' you seem to make learning this for a non-native romance speaking individual as myself.

[@ScorpioMartianus]

That’s so great to hear!

[@plakette26]

"Hooahahaaa, vocaaalis est!" 😂 After a hard 10,5 hour workday I watch your videos. Your voice and intonation is sooo soothing and pleasant, it blew away all the chaos in my head. I never would have guessed, that learning Latin would be so enjoyable and wonderful. And you make me laugh as well. So I send you a big hug and thank you for restoring my peace of mind!🤗🤗

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Extrā modum gaudeō! I’m so happy to hear that!

[@plakette26]

@@ScorpioMartianus Cui honorem, honorem! 😊👏🤗 Das macht einfach so Spaß dir zuzuhören und zu spüren, wie du diese wundervolle Sprache zum Leben erweckst. Ich empfinde es als absolut fesselnd und mega gut erklärt. Und trotz des treibenden Rhythmus, noch immer wunderschön und beruhigend. Optime! 👏💕👏 In der knappen halben Stunde habe ich mehr gelernt als während meines gesamten Unterrichts (der staubtrocken war und sich NIE um Aussprache oder Betonung, geschweige denn Rhythmus geschert hat 🥴🙄😑).

[@tristanvadimterranova8053]

When I was a young teenager, Latin was just a pain in the ass. Now that I am 42, I feel like digging it. Latin is the blueprint of all Romance languages...

[@sdude5538]

Wow. Thanks for giving the class in Latin. I just learned a ton and was surprised at how much I could understand of what you’re saying. And seriously, thanks for having the follow along in LLPSI. So nice to be able to learn to speak at the same time so that I’m not conflicted as to what the word sounds like in my head as I’m learning to read.

[@tzerpa9446]

You mentioned that final -m makes vowels long, but I've read in Wheelock's Latin 7th edition, p. 4, that the last syllable in words finishing with -r, -m or -t tend to be short. I'm confused 🤔. Thank you for your videos 👍.

[@lhexagoneplus]

One of the most useful videos for me. Thanks a lot!

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Merci!

[@iamnorwegian]

I find it very hard to believe/comprehend that it is possible for a language like Latin, which packs so much grammatical information into the last few letters of each word, to also so eagerly drop final vowels when spoken out loud. It seems like this would get in the way of clear communication, and I think it is weird that this was not made explicit in writing if it was as prominent as highlighted in this video, like we would do with apostrophes today. I'm currently well into the second stage of the Dowling method, having finished nouns and adjectives and being about 80% through the indicative active and passive tables. For the last couple of months I've just been rereading familiar chapters of Ørberg, and also moved ahead a bit out of curiosity, always reading out loud in an attempt to get my head around correct pronunciation. I still struggle with final -M, since I don't know if I'm doing it right, and long vowels at the end of words, and this elision-business really does not sit well with me at all as I try it out in my own reading, or when listening to it in recordings. I still want there to be at least a hint of what the ending of the previous word was when I read out loud or hear for myself. Is there any source you can reference that would help set my mind at ease in this matter?

[@ScorpioMartianus]

I used to feel the same way. You get used to it! One thing to keep in mind is that these vowel mergers also happen in pretty much every Romance language too. They occurred less frequently in Ancient Greek, but the importance of synaloephe in Latin cannot be understated. Sanskrit has even more important information that is obscured by the processes of synaloephe, yet its essential to correct pronunciation. I recommend Vōx Latīna. It’s on my Discord channel.

[@iamnorwegian]

@@ScorpioMartianus Thank you for the reply! It does help knowing that you too were sceptical at first, and that similar things happen in other ancient languages. Come to think of it, I know I do the similar simplifications when speaking my own native tongue as well. I really have to say, you have been an amazing resource for me in my journey towards Latin fluency. I hope to get there one day. And I will definitely check out both your Discord and Vōx Latīna!

[@peterbrown7688]

Entra en gran detalle, hasta poniendo al descubierto la existencia de un sonido que yo no sabia existia en latin. Me asombra la agudeza del enfoque.

[@ScorpioMartianus]

¡Muchísimas gracias, señor! ¿Cuál sonido?

[@peterbrown7688]

ScorpioMartianus se trata de la E nasal. Como eu falo portugues e frances, nao e coisa do outro mundo...

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Verdade! :D Sim. É muito similar.

[@felikso]

ut semper, grātiās tibi agō quia pelliculam optimam fēcistī. :)

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Gratias quod me auscultasti! :D

[@SupaThePink]

I'm only a beginner at Latin( so I unfortunately have to taint this comment section with English), but I must say your pronunciation is simply exquisite. This video is very well done. My pronunciation is pretty good for the most part, but since I'm self-taught, there's only so much I can get from a text book. I had no idea about the nasalized m and the elisio in Latin. Thanks again. Vales, amice!

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Thank you for your kind words! :D And good for you for being an autodidact! I am also self-taught in Latin. You'll find there is an enormous community of us Latin speakers you'll be able to join! I'm glad if my videos are helpful; I have quite a few others, including on the nasal -M and the elisions. If you have questions don't hesitate to ask them in the comments section of a video!

[@νβλτργγρ]

Latine, polonica pronuntiatione utens, loqui malo, sed illa est quoque dulcis auditu :) ScorpioMartiane, facis laborem optimum!

[@ILBOSCOSACRO]

Stupendo!!? Questo ragazzo è fantastico!!!

[@BrandonBoardman]

Sono d'accordo. I sui video erano un grande aiuto in parlando il latino.

[@thinking-ape6483]

I always have wondered about the ending in latine; as far as I am aware it is always declined according to the 1st//2nd declension paradigm and latine does not conform to that; I suppose it is a kind of adverbial form?

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Yup! Adverb. “Latinly”

[@thinking-ape6483]

@@ScorpioMartianus Gratias tibi ago, magne magister linguae latinae!

[@sabrinaimbrogno7932]

Once again brother, sooooo helpful. Thank you! 💝. Question: toward the end of the passage Cicero gives us “...hic tamen vīvit! Vīvit?”, it sounded like you did not change the emphasis for the question mark. Was that my ears or do you believe Latin speakers intuitively knew when the orator was probing/provoking with a question?

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Thank you, Sabrina! That’s just my interpretation. 😊

[@mranon42023]

thank you now i understand why they say latin has a moraic rythim like in japanese

[@fraternitas5117]

More of these!!

[@jimweights8908]

Do we have any evidence for pronunciation? I think not

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Yes: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iH6ueqCjjbGVacUsi=oTLMoVIkcvng4WcP

[@sweco92]

Luke, I just found your channel, I’m amazed and I would like to know, when you say _syllable_ in Latin, I think I hear a resemblance to _ü_ , I apologise for my question, I’m new to Latin and I’d like to know that, please. Besides, may I ask how would it be my name in Latin? Please.

[@vbus5236]

Your name in Latin is Iohannes, amīce :)

[@stevenv6463]

Y was used in Latin to represent this sound from Greek. Mr. Scorpio here is quite precise with his pronunciation of Greek origin words which the Romans distinguished with things like rh, ch, ph, th and y. These are all sounds from Greek and they pronounced them differently to r, c, p or f, t and i. In the case of y, it is the sound you wrote.

[@williamebrennan]

Really really cool thank you so much!

[@fabiolimadasilva3398]

Minha língua ancestral. Um abraço (=amplexo) do Brasil!

[@ismaelamaro7728]

So the rules of scansion for poetry apply equally to prose? Or are there slight differences.

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Exactly. A fact overlooked too often. See: kzbin.info/aero/PLQQL5IeNgck0-tQ4AZgKFMlQCJud_VY_H

[@ismaelamaro7728]

@@ScorpioMartianus Thank you Scorpio. I have another quick question for you. Is the final syllable of a hexameter line (anceps) always pronounced long, regardless of whether it is naturally short? I've seen it marked as 'x' and am a bit confused on this point. Thank you

[@edgarazevedo1306]

Item hae mendae paucissimae tuae, ut dixisti, beneficium faciunt nobis nam quisquis eas attente animadvertit etiam auditionem ipsam exercitat.

[@LordSesshaku]

9:25 I am no expert in ancient language, buy I can't shake this feeling that the latin explanation throughout the video sounds more believable than the actual cicero's pronunciantion. Those over the top long vowels on the second part of the first sentence, doesn't sound like anything any of the living romance language sound like. That's not how I imagine an enraged Cicero would talk. It just doesn't feel natural to me to speak like that. Speciall not when angry and speaking your mind at the Senate right at the beggining of a possible civil war.

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Sure, but how many languages do you speak which have phonemic vowel length? Finnish or Japanese or Czech? Also keep in mind my pronunciation is pedagogical here. I want you to hear what I’m trying to indicate. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qandaWyrZ6t-pq8 That’s how I speak with friends

[@LordSesshaku]

@@ScorpioMartianus And that one sounds far more like what I meant. Sorry If I came out as aggressive by the way. I am not actually complaining about the video you made which is clearly a high quality latin class. I was just stating a personal frustration of mine, that many times, when trying to find "what romans might've sounded like", the end result we get doesn't sound (to me) like a real language that would've been spoken by real people, and more like an imitation of a real language. Like I stated before, I am not expert in Latin, and I am sure there's A LOT of historical bases for the current pronunciation. Because ...well...Latin is probably one of the most registered and studied of the ancient languages. So, I defintely don't doubt the grammar and general feel. But I once read an expert in sumerian language (granted, a far more "unknown" language than latin) describing how a modern scholar could probably make himself understood, but natives would think he sounds funny. And that's exactly what I get from Latin. It sounds like there was something about the sound, feel and intonation that was lost after thousands of years and cannot be recovered, because we don't have recordings from it. And although I realize, humans have really weird languages (for example kzbin.info/www/bejne/oqbUd6Zpmq-di8k). It's tempting for the non latin speakers like me to think an angry Cicero would've sounded a bit different.

[@Canev821]

I feel like I’m understanding alittle bit more

[@publiusvergiliusmaro1125]

Hey hey hey, wait a second. And my Latin subtitles? :c ♥

[@publiusvergiliusmaro1125]

Iam non sunt necessāriī 😊💜

[@rintothumewah5455]

There's no elisio in nos eludet?

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Why would there be?

[@rintothumewah5455]

@@ScorpioMartianus I'm sorry Mr. Ranieri. I just learned latin 6 month ago,still confuse with elisio,but your video's helping me to improve my latin..thx so much sir

[@marcodeinnocentis1934]

Apud De Oratore librum tertium de hoc Cicero scripsisse videtur: "Conlocationis est componere et struere verba sic, ut neve asper eorum concursus neve hiulcus sit, sed quodam modo coagmentatus et levis. [...] Sed est tamen haec conlocatio conservanda verborum, de qua loquor; quae vinctam orationem efficit, quae cohaerentem, quae levem, quae aequabiliter fluentem; id adsequemini, si verba extrema cum consequentibus primis ita iungentur, ut neve aspere concurrant neve vastius diducantur." (3.171 - 3.172)

[@СиДи-ф4п]

Salve Luci. De hac re volo certiorem me facias. Magistri linguae latinae mei docebant vocalem quae particulam -que in verbo praecedit, semper ici, ergo secundum eos dici debet e.g. itàque et non ìtaque. Quid dicas?

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Falsum docent. 😊 Tālia verba sequuntur rēgulam paenultimae syllabae: ítaque, NON itáque Exceptiō: Júliaque, NON Julíaque (ut egomet quondam ēnūntiābam)

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Aliud tibi: www.google.com/amp/s/foundinantiquity.com/2017/11/04/the-accent-of-words-ending-in-que/amp/

[@СиДи-ф4п]

@@ScorpioMartianus Ecce. Non sperabam rem sic stare et quaestionem iam historiam suam habere. Gratias tibi pro explanatione veloce. Diem iucundum tibi

[@dahliavkarma6124]

útilissima est😭😭😭grátiás🥺🥺🥺

[@oliverrodriguez7470]

Opera tua bene nota sunt.

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Gaudeō! :)

[@АнастасияАнохина-щ4ц]

Gratiam habeo😊

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Et nīl est! 🥰

[@juanxaviersantossalvador2866]

Perfect republican pronunciation. I loved the video. Just a thing: during Cicero's times everything was written in caps, without the macron. So, how do we know nowadays?

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Salve, Juan! Thanks so much for the friendly comment. That's a good question! The Romans themselves explained to us which vowels were long and short, and that the most important part of Latin pronunciation are the long and short syllables. The ancient Romans would have been horrified by how most people pronounce Latin today, ignoring the vital rhythm of their tongue! Most of all, we know these long and short syllables thanks to the poetry of the Romans, which follows specific metrical patterns that are incredibly well understood, and have been since antiquity through the Middle Ages and the Renaissance. I talk a bit about this here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ioOqYaaDiqupj5I

[@juanxaviersantossalvador2866]

ScorpioMartianus thank you very much! And yes, nowadays people speak horribly latin. I know how it sounds because at school I studied latin for 2 years , but I don't remember mostly anything at all. So I'm grateful that I found your video with perfect pronunciation. Most people pronounce ecclesiastical pronunciation with the ch as we use it in spanish.

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Ah sí, te entiendo muy bien, amigo. ¡Y yo creo que el ritmo es de maxima importancia! Si quieres aprender el latín con fluidez, puedo darte el link a estas películas con mi recitation del mejor libro para estudiar el idioma latino. Aquí está: kzbin.info/aero/PLU1WuLg45SiyrXahjvFahDuA060P487pV

[@juanxaviersantossalvador2866]

ScorpioMartianus Sí, me interesa mucho aprenderlo. Soy abogado y estudioso del derecho romano. Y además, de sus poetas. ¡Mil gracias!

[@ScorpioMartianus]

No hay de qué, amice mi! :D

[@michelle-vd8nd]

Gratias scorpio martiane, elisiones non intellegebam. Magister optimus es

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Grātiās, Michelle! Sī vīs scīre plūs, haec spēctā: kzbin.info/aero/PLQQL5IeNgck0-tQ4AZgKFMlQCJud_VY_H

[@michelle-vd8nd]

Gratias, fecisti mihi magnum placitum.

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Gaudiō mihi est! 😃

[@przemysawstocki5810]

Salve! Tam bona pelicula gratias desiderat! Sed unam quaestionem habeo: suntne scriptae leges brevitatis et longitudinis syllabarum? Decora est tua pronuntiatio huius orationis, sed non est claratum, cur syllaba est longa aut brevis. Habes alteram peliculam, ubi explicas has leges? Gratus sim!

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Salvē et tū! Grātiam tibi habeō ob tuum optimum rogātum. Ita! Quīnque habeō pelliculās apud meum alium canālem polýMATHY quibus hanc ipsam rem aperiō: Disyllabae: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nIK8dqBnmrOriq8 Trisyllabae: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pIK1mX9_lLObaqs Tetrasyllabae: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gpLEY61qpt2obZY Metrical Feet Review: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nnSuinV_Zr16r5Y Pellicula dē apicibus: kzbin.info/www/bejne/emTFnn-fZsd-f5I

[@DrWhom]

"OK"?

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Hac in cantione usus sum eodem rhythmo naturali Latino! sic ut in pellicula supra sita commendavi. Spero vobis placituram esse. 🦀 kzbin.info/www/bejne/kHvEY6yKrt11gdE

[@florinalfonse4163]

SPQR- Senatus Populusque Romanus. Foarte probabil se pronunta ,,Senatu Populusca Romanu''.La fel cum in limba romana art. hot.nu se pronunta , de exemplu; senatul- senatu, frumosul- frumosu, mutul- mutu, europanul-europeanu.

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Da! this definitely was a pronunciation by some Romans at some point in history, and definitely of the colonists in Dacia Trajana after the 3rd century AD. But it's not correct to say this is the true pronunciation in the 1cBC, the time of Cicero. We know this because the weight, the duration of the -s is maintained in poetry and prose (like Cicero's) through the 1cBC and 1cAD, and after. So, we have a point during the Empire where some speakers are regularly dropping the -s, and others are keeping it.

[@J429ortoch]

Why have you divided 'Catilina' into 4 syllables like this: CA-TI-LIN-A and not like this: CA-TI-LI-NA? Thank you.

[@rdyt0]

I think he said exactly ca-ti-li-na, with the li prolonged accordingly.

[@J429ortoch]

Gratis tibi valde, Riverson Deng.

[@Cobemindala]

"quo usque" - nisi fallor etiam ita pronuntiare possumus, ut o vocalem, utpote alteri vocali antecedentem, corripiamus.

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Sane! Opus est tantummodo unam solam syllabam facere, sic ut Hispani "te amo" dicunt seu Itali "ti amo." Hae juncturae habent modo duas syllabas, sic ut "quō ūsque" duas tantum habet syllabas.

[@Cobemindala]

immo possunt manere tres syllabae, quarum prima tamen corripiatur. inveniuntur huius rei exempla in poesi! :-)

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Possunt? Ita. Sic loquebantur Romani 95% temporis? Minime. In poesi sunt *paucissima* exempla hiatus qui vocales inter vocabula dividunt; exceptio est, non regula. Regula est mixtio vocalium. Hiatus interponendus est rarissime! Sic est mos etiam apud Italos, Hispanos, Catalanos, Gallos, Lusitanos, Dacoromanos, Sardos, Siculos, et ceteros multos.

[@Cobemindala]

Salvus sis, vir doctissime! gratias tibi ago pro responso! mea sententia multae res hic conveniunt ac considerandae sunt. sunt, qui dicant in oratione numeris soluta multo liberius hiatus admitti. quod verumne sit nescio, quia non satis diligenter in argumenta eorum incubui, qui sic docent. sed et alia res consideranda mihi videtur: id quod mireris, multo minus offendere videntur hiatus intRA vocabula quam intER vocabula. modo inquiras, quid fiat de talibus verbis in poesi, quale est "praeerant". ubi "prae-" corripitur (vocalis ante vocalem brevis) neque tamen vocalis eliditur. nescio igitur an hoc quoque sit quaerendum, sitne "quo usque" pro uno (composito!) an pro duobus vocabulis habendum ... sed fateor de rebus satis incertis hic agi. neque igitur ego neque tu pro certissimo (!) umquam sciemus - pro dolor -, quomodo veteres vere pronuntiaverint :-) at certe: pergamus proferre, quid cuique verisimillimum videatur. vale! :-)

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Salve et tu, amice! :-) Qui sunt hi viri qui dicant in oratione numeris soluta multo liberius hiatus admitti? In lingua Latina recte pronuntianda, exemplaria nostra sunt linguae hodiernae ex Latina natae: Lusitanica, Hispanica, Catalana, Gallica, Sardica, Italica, Sicula, & Daciromanica, inter alias permultas dialectos. His omnibus linguis, carminibus colloquiisque, vocales inter verba in unam syllabam fiunt 90%-95% temporis. Exceptiones sunt rarae. Etenim Romani antiqui sic scripserunt cecineruntque. Non sic est mos inter sermones ex origine Protogermanica, ut Anglicum et Germanicum hodiernum. In mea pellicula supra posita, "elisionem" dixi, sed melius foret dicendum ita: "mixtio vocalium in unam syllabam," quasi ut diphthongus, nonne? Attamen, *non* ut diphthongi quae semper longae pronuntiantur, longitudo "mixtionis" pendet de longitudine vocalis quae in sequentis verbi prima syllaba inveniatur. In "praeerant," prima vocalica syllaba, quae est "-ae-" diphthongus, non corripitur in secundam vocalicam syllabam, quae est "-e-", propterea quod hoc est unum singulum vocabulum, qua de causa "praeerant" scribitur neque "prae erant" cum spatio interposito. Scripsisti, amice Chrissule, "neque igitur ego neque tu pro certissimo (!) umquam sciemus - pro dolor -, quomodo veteres vere pronuntiaverint," sed de his rebus tantum scio quantum de aetate Terrae planetae (~4.6 Ma) scio. Evidentia satis sunt nobis ut sciamus. Via conservatrix est linguas hodiernas e Latina natas diligentissime observare. Gratias pro vegetissimo colloquio! :-D

[@juanme555]

Cicero is my all time hero

[@Cobemindala]

salvus sis iterum! aliud quiddam abs te quaerere velim, amice doctissime: id quod mihi satis probabile videtur (varias ob causas), sed quod numquam adhuc apud homines doctos repperi - dicis in "tandem" propter m finalem "e" fieri longam. quod libenter credam. itaque pervelim scire, und hoc cognitum habeas :) vale!

[@ScorpioMartianus]

Ipse Ørberg primus me hoc docuit paenultimi capituli Familiae Romanae lectione Grammatica. Sed syllaba est longa quia per consonantem terminat (si consonans sequitur). Si vocalis sequitur, elisio fit. Si est ultima syllaba sententiae, rhythmo non refert utrum longa an brevis sit.

[@florinalfonse4163]

Nu cred ca ,,s'' de la sfarsitul cuvintelor se pronunta! De exemplu; senatus, locus, sentis, concursus, arbitraris, convocaveris, vitamus, oculis...Vorbirea ar fi fost foarte dificila si grea.

[@peterbrown7688]

Entra en gran detalle, hasta poniendo al descubierto la existencia de un sonido que yo no sabia existia en latin. Me asombra la agudeza del enfoque.