How are heroic raids in Cataclysm Classic? Too hard? Just right? Where to start?

[@Scottejaye]

The Cataclysm Rested XP Guide is here now! You can preorder here - www.restedxp.com/cataclysm/ref/scottejaye/ Cata 80-81 prep guide - www.restedxp.com/product/cataclysm-preparation-guide/ref/scottejaye/

[@kerchex9931]

The heroics aren't too hard, the normals are too easy is the problem. They do not prepare you for heroics because you can just ignore every mechanic which I find a bit frustrating

[@datolicious4832]

This is 100% correct... we as a 10 man group steamroll all the normals but struggle on heroics😂 but well atleast were having fun haha

[@andromidius]

Nefarian seems to be the exception. He's quite a step up from the other normal mode bosses, probably harder then the easier heroics.

[@ibah7610]

When people have to do anything but their rotation shit goes south because people just show up completely clueless and expect to get carried.. Nef for example is faceroll as long as people use their CC ​@@andromidius

[@giamil]

I agree with this 100% normal is was too easy compared to heroic

[@daqimber]

100% agree

[@XBezerkerX]

I agree with all of the comments here. The disparity between Normal and Heroic is insane. We one tapped every boss week one on normal and then couldn't get a single kill in HC because Normal does absolutely nothing to prepare you for the new mechanics of HC.

[@frostyascent1295]

You have to use the heroic strategy’s when doing them in normal mode so people get used to the strategy also try halfas heroic first he’s super easy just release 3 drakes and the whelps lust and burn them down then release the last drake (slate) but only kill boss at that moment

[@DrFuzzyxFuzz]

I disagree with you. Hardcore is way too easy now with the latest update.

[@Evan-mt7bc]

The difficulty is tuned really well I think. Almost every boss is a pretty easy breeze on Normal mode, guilds and pugs that get easily filtered can still do their full Normal clears, might have to give up on a Nef kill now and then but still enjoy the tier. Half the bosses on Heroic are decently easy so guilds with some coordination that went 8/12 in ICC Heroic can get a bunch of Heroic loot out of it and enjoy their time. Guilds that want to push that extra bit harder that killed Heroic Lich King with buffs can work on the next third of Heroic bosses that are satisfying progression bosses and the last 3 are there as a good challenge for the guilds that were able to kill Lich King Heroic before the buffs started rolling out big. Normals are easy but Normals should be faceroll and the Heroics range in difficulty from Spicy Normal to "can you get your raiders to watch a boss video?" to "can your raiders raidlead this fight?"

[@fxr.markus]

Yeah it's a nice pace, got all killed on normal and will start HC trys next id. Don't feel any kind of rush, just want to see as much as possible and when you are done with the rep stuff you pretty much don't need to do shit if you don't like to

[@chesterdespic98]

I’m mainly happy that we don’t have wrath naxx difficulty for heroics, it’s nice to do progression again on the bosses.

[@Turkos245]

The hardest part of heroic raids is having to swap out two guildies on the second raid night because someone who was there on tuesday had something come up and having our lockout bug and brick our heroic chimeron kill

[@GrantTech314]

Much respect. Have enjoyed your content for some time now. I’ll stray from WOW then see what you are saying about current content and get back involved. Keep up the great work and achieving your goals.

[@adrianolabusta6620]

My 25m team cleared every normal raid without issues and we couldnt do a single heroic because of the difference between norm and heroic, you can put a 342 in a norm and theyll do great but put a 349 in a heroic and theyll get oneshot the differences between difficulties are super big and norms shouldve been a bit more like SOD raids to test us and make us learn mechancis in every clear we did we basically ignored most mechancis unless absolutley necessary because we had 3 dks hitting for 25k singletarget an arms warrior and 3 hunters all hitting for 30k single target so we didnt have to worry but heroics will likely take us like most people an extra week to clear norms again for gear for low gear people to actually clear since we still have a few low ilvls

[@Petter1900]

I think the balance is quite solid if I'm honest. Normal is easily puggable with alts and mains alike to make gearing up for heroics a breeze while heroic has some real kick to it, exactly how I like it.

[@battleforshogun5452]

It’s terrible ur coping

[@KittyQuest]

id watch some Scottejaye heroic raid guides videos for sure!

[@Ceneyras]

Are you going to do any boss guides?

[@Vhite]

I feel like they're just hard enough. Our guild will be able to do progress raid on HC bosses for weeks, and whenever we start running out of time, we can finish on normal and still get upgrades from that.

[@derickwall2228]

I think they are just right. I suspect you will be posting soon about the changes coming to the Fair and Valor points.

[@tyson2983]

Don't forget if you know some elite pvpers from your guild you can find the rested xp guide that way too ;)

[@EzzyTnT]

We have such a hard time killing any HC boss, we have a holy paladin that cant get over 7k hps on hard fights with a looot of healing. We are trying to help him understand his class but no luck so far. So you can imagine that every fight gets a lot harder when the healing is not there.

[@heroabove]

The solution is to replace him.

[@Valvad0ss]

U def have to bench him

[@juvygenius]

Heroic Magmaw is actually not that bad. You just run with a Frost DK kiting the parasites along with a hunter or two to MD new parasites to him. Then everybody else is just killing the extra add and focusing the boss.

[@jamal3298]

It's pretty annoying when guilds don't kite (like mine). Those fire patches spread way too quickly if/when people spread too much.

[@stefangeibla3824]

Really depends on who u are asking… my friends and I have absolutely zero interest in those hard raids. We love to chat while doing some chill content after a long day of tedious adulthood responsibilities 😅 probably other people love to be super invested and focused while raiding. Depends on what u have going on IRL imo

[@Jan_Nicolaisen]

I don't think HC is too difficult, I think Normal is too easy! Hard to practice for HC and then "accidentally" kill the boss, only to get wiped all over the floor in HC. Took us a while to understand the Magmaw bug as well, that was fun :P

[@kaderdoo]

Can you do Cho'Gal on heroic if you only kill previous bosses on normal?

[@XxKinGzxX100]

Yes

[@xpotion7686]

Would you consider doing guides for 10 man specific heroic strats? Seems most guides only talk about 25 man and some things just don't really transfer

[@DonLoyal7723]

This tier I feel like there's 1 level of difficulty in the middle of N and H that's missing. If there was another difficulty that was harder than normal, and Heroics would be a bit harder, you'd have such a smooth curve to progress. Right now you have normal that is a roflstomp since week one, while not being able to kill a single boss on H, kinda weird. But, at least I appreciate there's a harder difficulty that you can keep on progressing sometime.

[@MadiTheGJ]

How would you go for Chogall as the 2nd boss in BoT? It's not like you can just skip 2 bosses and go straight to the end bosses?

[@rdeanlang]

You can turn heroic mode on and off throughout a raid. Clear first boss heroic, switch raid to normal, clear 2nd and 3rd normal, switch back to heroic.

[@MadiTheGJ]

@@rdeanlang Ah, now that's something i didn't know

[@Funkyflapjak]

Ok so every boss is “not too bad” if you “do the mechanics perfectly” Thanks

[@vulture27fm]

The gap between normal and heroic is too extreme, and the normal mode loot largely feels worthless since there are so many other sources of 359 gear. I wish they had done something like increase the damage and health of everything on normal by 15-20% and upped the loot ilvl to 365. Heroics would still be significantly harder with the additional mechanics, but it wouldn't feel like a completely different raid tier.

[@battleforshogun5452]

Someone who lives in reality I agree

[@dlpkn]

Scotte must be pumped for Euro 2024.

[@TheKobasen]

Stonecore heroic is hard (especially ozruk) Vortex is hard Tolvir is quite hard Grim batol is hard

[@KeruptR47]

Omnitron was our 2nd Heroic after halfas

[@Jsten16]

Theyre fine. Theres just not enough players that is all they should just nerf them let the crap players have loot so more people will play

[@kalsizzle]

Great breakdown, raiding in this tier is fun.

[@Shannendetro]

What a shame… Had some of the best Raiders in the US on a private server, some of them from previous expansion top three US guilds. That shit was still hard. Some of my buddies are raiding and say it’s a joke compared to the private server.

[@TheeMrRasmus]

So far the bosses themselves have not been too hard. We are still only 7/13 25m hc, so K can't tell really yet. We are progressing the next few bosses sunday. It's just like in ulduar, togc or ICC. You will wipe a ton, but no hard stuff going on. Just learn what you have to do on which mechanics, but basically just move out of shit and keep your HP above 0 and you're good

[@Metalmara]

I've liked the heroic difficulty a lot. I think the normals are a tad bit too easy, as most mechanics can be just ignored.

[@markshepherd4791]

I tell you what's too hard? My shlong when I see scotty has uploaded

[@Dronesh_Tythun]

We did heroic magmaw pretty easy our 1st night .

[@dylanfarris7647]

My guilds at 8/12 and I don’t think they are very hard, but they are oddly annoying and buggy lol. We kill the bosses in a handful of attempts but it’s just not fun.

[@rogerdodger1984]

I disagree that months of progress on Heroics is a good thing when the next phase will be out within those couple months most likely. I play in a competant guild, so Im not worried about me, but nerfs dont bother me either as I dont care who can clear Heroics and I dont get mad that more casual players are having a good time too.

[@heroabove]

No nerfs needed. If people struggle with the current “difficulty” of heroics they don’t deserve a kill when the content is current. They can come back next tier when the content is easier due to having better gear.

[@Kebobmeister]

They are absolutely just perfekt 👏

[@Mike_Olee]

Simple, progress weekly as your raid gets geared. Watch the L2R guides, and the heroics will come. The number of ppl crying about heroic difficulty is wild.

[@CallieAdair-pm6iw]

so do mechanics, have good gear, and dont make mistakes and they die. got it

[@Fliptality]

My dad Guild went 4/13 heroic first raid id. 10m

[@AwesomeshadowSP]

They are just right. For a very top guild who did ptr, they were fairly easy. For a very good/good guild who barely ptr, difficulty is perfectly on point, you should be 13/13hc or close to it by now with some wipes on the most difficults bosses. For average build, you have few HC and that's it. It's really well designed

[@rookie28604]

Magmaw is ez, don't you guys remember the add kite strat?

[@kalsizzle]

Heroic raids feel a bit too hard on 10man

[@theformuoli6397]

13/13h 25m world tenth cleared, restoration shaman. Majority of the fights are really, really easy. And my advice to all the people still looking to prog, is to just do mechanics. So many of the fights are just mechanics based. If you do the mechanics, you *will* kill the boss. Your parse doesn’t matter, your dps checks aren’t extreme for really any of the fights, if you’re eeking out extra dmg and risking failing a mechanic, you’re the problem. Survive and the bosses die, hardest fights for sure are heroic AC since there is a bug on AC that doesn’t always generate fire after the dash, meaning if you’re hit by water bomb you have to rocket boost/get life gripped into the flame torrent before it ends or it’s just an ensured death. After that it’s nef, then I guess sinestra? Sinestra is pretty simple as well as long as when orbs come out you don’t pre emptively move before the tether actually leashes onto someone

[@Mortal209]

I think heroic dungeons are a bit difficult because I will go in and get wrecked as a Tank due to the healer not healing me or I take unavoidable damage. I've noticed that if you don't have a very geared healer who knows what they're doing then a heroic dungeon will be a rough time for you. They have bosses that do damage that's unavoidable as a tank that can 1-3 shot you without a good healer or DPS. I'm afraid of even trying to do a normal raid because of the horrible heroics I've done with pugs. Guildies messing up is forgivable but when I get a lot of shit from random people who bought all their gear and still do worse damage/DPS than myself as a tank then you know something is wrong.

[@pimmelfischli]

ofcourse I am just guessing here but when you feel like some bosses just hit you too hard see if you can get more mastery. Especially if you are Druid or DK having high mastery is way more important than stacking HP or avoidance stats. I switched my druid from stamina and dodge to agi and mastery and it has been smooth sailing since even with pugs

[@comq01]

@@pimmelfischli stam still better for bear

[@DrFuzzyxFuzz]

With the latest update, heroics feel way too easy. It honestly feels like Dragonflight now. It's not fun.

[@JV-ko6ov]

If you want hard raids go play retail and stop ruining our fking game

[@gmag15234]

bro can blizz just make tbc servers? i dont give a fk about anything else. TBC was the greatest game man ever made.

[@opsap]

Man tbc babies cry so much 🤣🤣 how old are y'all ..sheesh

[@gmag15234]

@@opsap old enough to know these games are shit

[@opsap]

@@gmag15234 your poor sad life 🤣

[@henrybustos6974]

Bamm!

[@Sheepiii]

Heroics are too hard for classic andys and too easy for skilled players Weve done not a single ptr or private server and cleared 13/13 week 1 (many dumb wipes but we did it)

[@facehugger8995]

tbh classic has always been easy unless its bugged feels like we always getting the post nerf content but then again tbc wotlk and cata were never challenging those 3 expansions have about as many raid mechanics as 1 retail boss these days which is why we like it cause its easy and chill

[@joshyman221]

Cata bosses have more mechanics than most retail bosses lol. Compare Al Akir to the rock boss in vault of incarnates…

[@CapOfXav]

@@joshyman221 Even Lich King and Yogg-saron had a lot of mechanics.. (not terrible hard mechanics mind you) but if you didn't follow them, you fucking die

[@facehugger8995]

@@joshyman221 surely you aren't saying cata is harder? most guilds already cleared all content of cata in the first week it took the best guild in the world nearly 2 weeks to clear the easiest raid in dragonflight

[@Melodeath00]

Cata bosses not having mechanics is just not true. They are easy because they are undertuned and because they have already been solved, not because of a lack of mechanical complexity. The hardest 1/3 Cata t11 HC bosses could easily be ported to retail, tuned properly and made into early/mid Mythic bosses without them really feeling out of place. And inbefore "Lol this guy thinks Cata is hard": No, this is more you overestimating how complex retail bosses are, as opposed to me making Cata bosses sound more complex than they are. Yeah, raiding has gotten slightly harder each expansion. Retail bosses have 6 mechanics instead of Cata bosses having 5, and retail boss mechanics only give you 1,5 sec to react to stuff instead of Cata mechanics giving you 2, but fundamentally, high end raiding is still the same as it was back then.

[@andrewramsey7405]

You want tough? Go and run Mythic pluses in Retail or heroics in Retail.

[@voo7210]

I want the original experience. Which we have. Stop crying.

[@rogerdodger1984]

Whos asking for this?

[@andrewramsey7405]

I'm not crying, I'm enjoying watching my 13 year old walk this sh!t

[@chrisbalcu4033]

Not investing much time in cata. I do some dailys. Maybe one instance max then exit cause its boring and went through that nightmare of an expansion already

[@XxKinGzxX100]

That’s great man

[@shawnburns3996]

They’re just right tbh. Heroics should be able to catch you off guard. But not spend more that 45 minutes in one

[@Delsauro]

13/13 heroic on few chars,, this raid are joke....

[@handyranks6407]

Imagine drugin an animal for views smh

[@anon12549]

Normals are LFR quality and Heroics are already becoming trivialized with gear. One shot mechanics will be a thing, but heroic bosses will not be hard at 370 ilvl. I was honestly let down with the level of difficulty, it is easier than heroic retail and that is in one of the easiest states its ever been in. The mechanics are just not complex and rely on you being under geared to be hard.

[@garrrettp]

Its not that hard tbh. Just a big portion of the customers are just bad at the game and only use it to sell gold for money

[@ezeess7239]

of course they're too hard. And it's only going to get worse without LFR. The population will drop considerably when people realize they have to raid 3 days a week in mop to clear heroic / mythic

[@svsv1191]

I'd rather there be another source for bis gear rather than lower skill players being able to do the hardest content, let justice points eventually lead to bis

[@tommuller6907]

What would u need bis gear for if you’re not doing the hardest content?

[@svsv1191]

@@tommuller6907 I'm responding to the sentiment that people in the post he showed in the video has, they say they want bis gear idk why

[@bakerfx4968]

You want the gear, you should clear the content. Otherwise enjoy staring at and inspecting geared people in your main city for inspiration (which is how it should be)

[@svsv1191]

@@tommuller6907 I want the game to be as hard and unforgiving as possible

[@svsv1191]

@@bakerfx4968 This is a pretty cringe take, i think the content should be as hard as possible but like Scottie is making a video about there are people who disagree

[@JV-ko6ov]

Its really only the extremely vocal top 1%. Blizz loves to make the game for the bottom and top 10% , while 80% of players quit the game