Skull Merchant Discussion Lasting as Long as a Skull Merchant Match - Dead by Daylight

Pixel's video: • In Response: Scott Jun...
/ scottjund

[@rosaparks6479]

I cant believe Scott said he wants to kill Pixel. this drama is really getting out of hand

[@prohikikomo]

i can't believe scott slashed pixel's tires

[@lurking5784]

Truly one of the dramas

[@justusgrimm2127]

Can't believe Pixel threw an iridescent brick trough Scott's window

[@tooth1539]

Pixel went too far by throwing toilet paper all over Scott's house

[@cyberjab]

🤯🤯🤯

[@alphacenturion8423]

This back and forth is really giving me an authentic Skull Merchant experience. I know what it feels like to go against her even when not playing the game. Truly a Dead By Daylight killer of all time.

[@therhymingturtle5577]

It’s just like chess!

[@Tatertwat05]

@@therhymingturtle5577More like checkers

[@fart63]

When I close my eyes the game is still there

[@chemicalimbalance7030]

@@therhymingturtle5577there’s no difference between SM, this discussion, and chess. They are all the same.

[@bloxer9563]

So true

[@tk_the_onion]

TL:DR for antone who didnt watch the whole thing, they are doing the Cage Match in the octagon on Halloween at 8pm GMT

[@Mazerwolf]

Pixel and Scott interacting will never not be my favourite dbd videos

[@numnaut1314]

Watching these two going and reacting to one another is more enjoyable than the update itself.

[@ellie_figure-8942]

Omori and Niko you are a gOD.

[@prohikikomo]

omor pfp!!!

[@glaive616]

They need to just bang it out.

[@sam7259]

It'll snowball till Scott calls someone an ableist, to hide the fact that discord receipts show Scott being blatantly racist and referring to people as "retarded Indians". Classic Bot Jund.

[@danzargy]

Oh yeah, this drama is very dramatically dramatical, so sad that Scott called Pixel a twins main, it's a fate worse than death tbh.

[@megahoundoomi9352]

But Pixel is tho... (And I don't really blame him)

[@sam7259]

It'll snowball till Scott calls someone an ableist, to hide the fact that discord receipts show Scott being blatantly racist and referring to people as "retarded Indians". Classic Bot Jund.

[@Helperishere]

​@@megahoundoomi9352I believe he just enjoys killers that play in an entirely different manor

[@ZTGallagher]

Heard you loud and clear, Scott. Pixel's KZbin comment section won't know what hit it. I won't let you down.

[@thegrimeyhole]

Vile Scotts strongest soldier 🫡

[@scattrd]

Goddamn! Scott "Reacting to Content About the Reaction of Another Piece of Content" Jund is on a streak!

[@DanielRodriguez-zj5il]

And we reacted to it!

[@Ashtonyss]

Regardless of your opinion on Skull Merchant, you have to agree that this video's title is god-tier.

[@Helperishere]

I love her and Singularity. It's mostly a vibe thing. The killers power design is just fin for me aesthetically(sp?). She may not be fun to face for most people but to me she is as I just really like the drones. I understand why she isn't fun to face for sure but for me I enjoy her. Both playing and facing.

[@petes1772]

In my opinion, Pixel's video unintentionally shows why I hate Skull Merchant's new design (not nearly as much as her old design, but still). His video talks about how survivors can crouch mid-chase or monitor the drone lights mid-chase or pre-throw pallets to preserve the distance lost while crouching. There is skill required in the new SM chases, but it's all on survivors. She just hits one button at a loop, and then the drone does the work for her. Rather than being a 50/50 of skill on both sides, it offloads all of the skill requirements to the survivor. They keep comparing SM to killers like Artist, but even Artist maintains control of her birds once they are deployed, so she can miss or be mind-gamed. Because the birds also only cover a single line as opposed to a giant circle, they also require more precise prediction of where a survivor will go compared to a drone. It doesn't matter if a killer has "counterplay" if the eventual hit feels like it took little effort from their end. Granted, I fully admit that I have passionately hated SM since her release, to the point that I stopped playing the game during her Tome because I refused to play survivor at a time when there were challenges encouraging people to play SM. So there was likely no way that BHVR would have ever managed to make her "good" in my humble opinion.

[@doncheadlegaming7521]

If Pixel makes a response then it’ll be as long as the average pre-rework Chess Merchant match

[@Splonton]

To explain a funny little quirk about knight’s guards, if you drop a pallet in front of them, they'll run to the other side of the pallet instead of going through it, and if you try going around them while they're doing this, the won't really attempt hitting you because now they're on a fixed path. That is how you can outplay knight at corner shack by dropping the pallet and then taking the window or run around them while the guard runs around shack like an idiot even though it could just go through the pallet

[@shsgshshsdgdhdhhehe5932]

Thanks for this advice. I have 4,000 hours in this game and wasn't aware of this interaction 😂😂

[@ScottJund]

oh id love to see a clip of that working against a smart knight. sounds good in theory

[@Splonton]

@@ScottJund if I get a clip of it working on me I'll send it to you! Maybe I'm just not a smart knight but it works on me a lot of the time when survivors actually know to do it since it essentially elliminates the guard from play until they get to the very front of the other side of the pallet. If you try to pincer the survivor then they can go on the guard's side and not get hit, and if you try to go the same way as the guard to cover that weakness then they can just run in the direction you're not in since there's no killer in that direction

[@dude555413]

​@@ScottJundSmart people don't play the Knight

[@Splonton]

@@dude555413 you're cringe and L

[@michaelurmo7984]

Can't wait for the Scott and Pixel collab about making the most balanced killer concept.

[@th3TwistedLight]

This was the most interesting series of "people who essentially agree , but keep discussing the semantics" on DBD content

[@defiant3752]

These two definitely do not agree.

[@T.BG822]

It's some rare content creators who still have the impulse to broadcast their views and dig in their heels, but aren't at least subclinical narcissists. Most DBD content creators with big names get too stuck in their echo chambers to avoid that.

[@sam7259]

It'll snowball till Scott calls someone an ableist, to hide the fact that discord receipts show Scott being blatantly racist and referring to people as "retarded Indians". Classic Bot Jund.

[@smtmonke]

​@@defiant3752 I do think there are things they definitely agree on, it's just that if they stroke each other off on the topics that are already agreed upon there isn't really any discussion happening.

[@Smokin_Choochang]

I have been waiting so long for someone to make that very MTG reference. Thank you pixel, you automatically win

[@sexypanda1349]

tbf he basically ended the video with 0 valid reason other than "yeah but i like her and think shes cool " which is valid but nonetheless useless in terms of actually playing against her

[@alicepbg2042]

@@sexypanda1349 so you didn't pay attention to the video? ok.

[@lingling4891]

oh god scott wants to destroy him, isn't it obvious? Just like he did with Tru3! He is unhinged someone needs to stop him!

[@Technature7567]

Vile Scott strikes again.

[@Jefrejtor]

HE CANT KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS!

[@demonkidd6928]

This comment lol God save us from this Scott demon lol

[@Tracker947]

Avengers level threat

[@kelsder]

​@@JefrejtorHE CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT

[@Minronis]

It shames me that we live in an era where people think you have to have problems personally with someone if you disagree with them. Civil discourse has been ruined by populace politics, use to be people became politicians because they were good at discourse while not taking it as a personal attack, nowadays its just whatever legacy nepobaby happens to wonder onto the podium. That Jund Charm edit nearly made me spit out my fries, lololol

[@yuppersmeer6080]

Hard disagree with the idea that today's civil discourse is worse than previous eras. We had things like the Holocaust and American presidents/politicians frequently disparaging minorities in the 1900s. I can't imagine that being better time of civil discourse than today, pretty much at all. And unless you're 40 or over, I don't think you could credibly make such an argument anyway. Otherwise you're just BSing because how the heck would you know what civil discourse looked like 40-50 years ago.

[@jebalitabb8228]

@@yuppersmeer6080anyone who immediately goes to that as an example has a wrong opinion

[@Minronis]

@@yuppersmeer6080 Take your cherry picking and ageism somewhere else. Its about the principle, not the numerous specifics you point to to try to prove your elusive point, that I'm guessing, is that I should think how its done today is just grand? Its not. Or is it I shouldn't desire people keep personal issues out of civil discussion? Which you just *did*, making assumptions of my character. The point was the original idea of what discussion is suppose to be about and what keeps us civil, not so much how things actually were but what they were meant to be when they were first devised but ultimately fell short of and continue to do so to this day. Those very things you mentioned were symptoms of that very failure. Next time, if someone doesn't attach random numbers to a general opinion, maybe you shouldn't do that for them? Just a suggestion.

[@bloxer9563]

@@jebalitabb8228 yeah lol

[@jordannolan4008]

Absolute brown talk hahahahaha

[@nohface4544]

Looking forward to future videos in this series where we have a chain of Scott's agreeing with eachother.

[@Bad_Gazpacho]

I appreciate this back and forth mostly because it taked me back to the times of KZbin video responses.

[@brotatochips1079]

Scott's been doing a lot of reacts to people reacting to him reacting to someone's content recently. And I love the absurdity of it. And I like the good points each do.

[@MrSupersayanguy]

my favorite part was when pixel brought up how maybe the whole game is poorly designed and scott just agrees and says he finally gets it, I feel so heard after that because its true, and poorly designed does not necessarily = not fun

[@theminusziskey9175]

A poorly designed game can have a fun and engaging premise. It's something I think a lot of people don't seem to get. DbDs premise is pretty good. Other Asymm games have tripped on the premise, despite enjoying some better design elements.

[@blakedudley4692]

Hour long vile Scott video. This oughta be good

[@sam7259]

It'll snowball till Scott calls someone an ableist, to hide the fact that discord receipts show Scott being blatantly racist and referring to people as "retarded Indians". Classic Bot Jund.

[@rakeshsspiceclub5554]

I know this is unrelated scott, but your videos are getting me through a very rough time. Your personality and humor help me take my mind off my own personal issues. Thank you 🖤

[@ardaoguzhan8181]

Simp

[@h2ojr1]

I cant wait for Pixel's video thats a reaction to your reaction reacting to his reaction to your discussion about the Skull Merchant. Watch it be 3 hours long

[@audiojungle9153]

Great video to watch while i get facecamped by bubba. Thanks scott!

[@endmysuffering2925]

Nice profile pic

[@ryenard]

I just want to add to the topic of player/survivor having choices in the blight scenario. I agree more with Scott but the way i would put it is that the survivor needs to have a choice when he has resources to use. This game has the "map generation problem" and you can't have every inch of the map be a interactive resource and because of that you have clean/barren areas, where the most you'll have as a survivor is a rock or a tree to use, and in those scenarios ( not arguing if it is good or bad) the killer most of the time will have a garantee hit. In the clip Pixel presented, while the survivor was in the pallet area, he had choices to make anything after that is just prone to human error, untill the survivor reaches another resource.

[@rabbidguarddog]

5 more videos and this skull merchant debate will be about a quarter of a length of a skull merchant match.

[@Payyyyyyyyyyyyyyy]

Honestly if scott started uploading philosophy videos I'd start watching them

[@Nick_Fade]

I can't believe i watched Pixel's video earlier now I'm about to sit down and watch this whole ass video too LOL

[@crobeau497]

The video I have been waiting for all day

[@fluffymonster396]

Fun is subjective. What is fun for you may not be fun for another.

[@iPyroNigma]

Would you consider instantly getting downed, getting camped, losing a hook stage because nobody bothered to save you, just sitting on gens, or having no agency to interact with another player *fun*? I ask because although "fun" may be subjective, once it is agreed upon by a majority it gains a degree of objectivity. It is one of the criteria for a thing to become truth. For example, whether working at the age of 9 years old is good or bad is subjective, we've agreed to call it bad over the years up to the point where now it is illegal for a child to work. As such, it is the collective agreement upon their individual and collective experiences one of the things that can provide subjective opinion a degree of objectivity. Another criteria could be a made up one, like "game design" which we could define as the interactions and relationships between players and game mechanics. That too could bring a degree of objectivity to a subjective issue.

[@fluffymonster396]

@@iPyroNigma Would you consider Dark Souls fun? I know plenty of people who hate that type of game, but I also know plenty of people who like it. Fun is different for everyone. This is an objective truth.

[@r.k845]

@@fluffymonster396That’s not engaging with his argument.

[@RingoRoad]

i feel like pixel is just um-ackhyually-ing from a biased perspective

[@CaptainCrackSparrow]

This video could have been shortened considerably. It's a Skull Merchant player therefore opinion is immediately ignored. The end.

[@owlwithmustache4084]

This is literally the exact same thing that happened with old spirit: She has no counterplay "Yes she does" *Shows examples that are either the spirit fucking up or so specific that it wouldn't apply to a normal match, OR a "comp" player showing examples.*

[@meep600]

pixels counterplay point doesnt really sound fun for survivor if it boils down to being forced to crouch during a chase. just because its there doesnt mean its healthy

[@lowrider6217]

i kinda want Scott to play Knight for a month straight just to see if his opinion changes.

[@Imhikoyume]

34:12 run right. Blight would have to bounce off the wall, by the time he adjust to rush you make it around those spoils. You can then run back from where you came. if there is anything blight can readjust a rush, then you play around the new rush trajectory again, and loop tightly in ways that makes it much harder for a blight who has a power that's mostly reliant on 1 trajectory.

[@alicepbg2042]

so... hope blight misses?

[@foxthetheif6148]

At 34:20 i think the meg could have stood at the door frame and pushed the blight out of the way of collision. At this time of blight doors and stuff like that were hard to get through so it would've bought more time at the time, than today. It still works pretty well though.

[@Splonton]

Good lord Scott has a based opinion about knight? I feel vindicated???

[@Leaf__22]

I love how all the examples he showed doesn't actually show what the counterplay is and to topnit all of, he uses urban...

[@elitechaz8440]

“Pro player” using urban to conduct an experiment whether there is counterplay or not to a killer. Clearly he’s kind of smooth in the head because you additional input to the experiment. No one is going to run Urban to counter the chance that they get a skull merchant match

[@justalpha2396]

I think if they changed the counterplay you can do from crouching to walking and making it only work in stealth and make running in the range even if you aren't in front of the lights change it from stealth to scout mode then I would love the new skull merchant. I think that would add a lot more depth to the chase on the survivor side since walking in chase is a lot more viable then crouching. Still doesn't change the fact that once it's active you kinda need to leave but at least makes the drop drone playstyle have a more consistent and unique counter imo

[@brix7573]

good type of discussion video to play when going to bed, i slept in so fast due to no counterplay for SM

[@xaroprismo7526]

another great reaction from Scott "Survivors should always have a choice" Jund

[@saikyue4462]

I love Skull Merchants Rework and how she plays now, I mostly start my matches with corrupt and start placing drones near the unblocked generators and high traffic areas like main buildings or similiar things for example, but only at gens that are hard to defend in ways and the rest of the time I use my drones as stealth on demand and instantly pick em up or leave em until after the chase on the loop and I love that playstyle tbh, very different to the rest of the killers i usually play and really fun

[@dekhain3284]

The macro point is actually an interesting thing to go into, since a lot of people often say we need a new gamemode or something. One thing that would be interesting is adding a little more macro to the game, even if for an event as a fun test of the concept, and seeing how that impacts DBD.

[@skeletonwitch.]

Pixel is so passive aggressive it's INSANE

[@austinoakes3898]

Agreed

[@bloxer9563]

Pixel is defending his queen no worries 😂

[@sapphicseas0451]

you are insane

[@skeletonwitch.]

@@sapphicseas0451 yesyes

[@sapphicseas0451]

@@skeletonwitch. crazy? I was crazy once... In all seriousness its just pixel's tone of voice he's most definitely not trying to be passive aggressive

[@Bman6464]

Scott...i never got your email. What time did you want us to raid his channel and defend your honor? 😂😂

[@21Handguns]

Cannot wait for the response to the response to the response to the response 🔥🔥🔥

[@j4nN04]

The only mechanical skill i think could be fun about SM, is that the 0,3s activation + the instand beam infront of you, makes some skill shots possible, even tho they are as useful as getting a direct snipe with clown.

[@cocothecocobo1860]

I think Scott’s current argument as I understand it applies to every non-m1 killer

[@RayOSA]

Scott Talks about Skull Merchant is my new favorite movie franchise

[@hinatasninetailedfox]

Loved the "Yeah I am trying to start shit." energy at the beginning. Can't believe this Pixel man came out you with such hostility glad you threw it back 😂

[@RockSkull]

Next discussion video is gonna be as long as its taking for blight to get a nerf.

[@Necromash]

Omg, I waited for your video response. XD

[@violetmaple9921]

i can't wait to see pixel's reaction to scott's reaction to pixel's reaction to scott's reaction to pixel's video about skull merchant. this will be the greatest event in dbd history

[@johntrains1317]

Yall seriously need to fan these flames to a full on WWF summerslam event. Also if the parties agree about the rules of something, then objective conclusions can be draw from those rules.

[@Camohflage]

i think the takeaway is that while there is counterplay it is not very engaging in your opinion. and id agree. like i think the way you counter the skullmerchant isnt very interesting and it seems like the majority of players agreed on that. also you touched on it a little bit when there is counterplay to an ability but the same level of counterplay exists already that is not killer specific (like leaving the loop, holding w etc) then the counterplay might as well not exist

[@humblebee5575]

Yeah, I think a lot of the disagreement here is just in Scott saying there's zero "skill expression" because he doesn't find thinking about traps and meta-level-gameplay fun, so he chooses to not refer to it as "skill expression" on the same level as looping. It's a weird linguistic choice but he's dug his heels in on it, so whatever.

[@typervader]

Which in that case, does he find Trapper, Hag, even Freddy, unfun as other trap killers? @@humblebee5575

[@brittanydill]

maybe im not understanding the rework because i didn't get hands-on PTB experience and i have a tough time conceptualizing the rework based only on the seeing and hearing the details, but what I'm gathering is they're trying to make her Drones more chase/loop focused but they are not giving Survivors a mechanic to disable to Drones if you're already in chase..? at risk of her being a worse Singularity, i really think they should give Survivors an EMP-type item to disable to drones "remotely" instead of hands-on, or a condition like disabling a drone outside of chase would give you a "hack stack" for when you enter a Drone zone it auto-disables if you're being chased, or something.... ihdek how they can rework her to be interesting to vs at this point

[@RayOSA]

THE PLOT CONTINUES

[@myyoutubecommentschannel8784]

Just because some people think the world is flat, that does not make the world being round a subjective opinion.

[@tomsmith7207]

Y’all a couple of smart kiddos having a smart convo, I approve.

[@laarman.]

dude please do more long form content i love it and you

[@Jimmy__P]

This video really makes you feel like a chess player

[@MrJP6389]

Scott: "Dont use my Blight guide, that shit is awful" Every Otz stream when someone ask for a guide for Blight "Check my FAQ, there a Scott guide that is old but still holds up" lol

[@apexspirit3793]

i was waiting for this like the release of the fnaf movie

[@sapphicseas0451]

Scott should get into comp just to see the weird different way those guys play DBD

[@SilentIsles]

cant wait for the 4 hour long response from pixel that leads into a 10 hour documentary on why skull merchant sucks from scott

[@Reinami66]

My general response to this entire video. Not everything has to be about "mechanical" skill. You keep talking about "all she does is right click" but that is about mechanical skill. Its ok for things to be about strategy and macro gameplay rather than mechanical micro gameplay.

[@davidatlas123]

Im gonna argue on the Blight point because of a couple of things as someone that plays it a bunch(no addons also) The "nothing the surv couldve done" scenario is a very specific example on a tile generation, very rarely theres not a wide rock/tree/debri to cover behind instead of an empty void Also, the point he even brings up, the Blight *can miss* Issue on Smerchant is that theres no miss or mechanical imput, unless you 360 her, she has no reason to miss, while Blight has to hit that, or he gets punished by a CD, longer and longer the more times he misses, giving the surv more distance in return. And you can 100% as a surv tip the balance towards you with spins or fakes Now you can say "oh but what if the Blight doesnt fall for said tricks and hits his rush?", And then i say that he got rewarded for his mechanically correct imput, with a hit. The surv even in the middle of nowhere can try stuff, but if the other player is simply better/more experienced, he gets rewarded for it. With Smerchant, once in said open/forced out of loop, theres no dodging/pathing to avoid her as there is no power there, just a m1 killer that pushed you out of the loop, so the surv agency is nonexistant, and the killer got the reward by hitting m2 and then m1 without timing nor strategy Also a other point is the counterplay examples which at least imo have to be the worst case examples ive seen. You cant base counters by following comp strats on a 1v1, the game does not work like that. 99.99% of players womt play at comp level even if knowing the counters(See sadako/Cenobite/Pig being the highest killrate killers) Not to mention, all the clips were very specific examples where -The survivor was dropping a pretty safe pallet -The drone was rotating in a way it wouldnt see them due to positioning of it -The surv had Urban Evasion, an F tier perk that no one runs, and people wont drop MFT or Resilience or Adren or Hope or SB or any meta perk, for freaking *urban evasion* in the off chance they go vs SMerchant Perks can help vs killers but you cant use the argument of "look there is counterplay, this perk helps vs her" because thats like saying old CoH was balances because "shattered hope countered it so its fine" Without Urban the surv wouldve wayyy more than likely gotten hit due to the distance-speed, not to mention addons for faster breaking speed within drones, or Brutal strenght negating this counter Predropping 3-4 pallets, including shack, within less than a minute is asking to lose instantly in soloq, so i dont take the comp counterplay as actual counterplay I couldve countered old Spirit by predropping every pallet and that doesnt make it good counterplay I think thats the main difference, good and engaging counterplay(in micro, dodging huntress hatches, in macro, Xenos turrets), and bad counterplay(predropping pallets or having a perk equipped beforehand)

[@Namelessstew]

Lets just keep this response rabbit hole going baby

[@realjimmycasket]

2 things: 1) I hope they remove the hindered from the drones when claw trapped. 2) They need to remove the Guards Knight puts down from injuring you. They can give effects from chasing you however. Guard Ideas: *Carnifex:* Still the fastest breaker, and break pallets when chasing a survivor, still a 24 second duration. If they "hit" the survivor, they inflict Mangled and Hemorrhage that only fades (when healthy) after 30 seconds (when injured, and the injury can apply afterwards) once healed *Assassin:* Gives the Knight 5% haste and blocks windows when passing through them when chasing the survivor, and still moves at 110%. Makes gens regress 200% faster for 30 seconds after kicking it, and applies Deep Wounds when they "hit" an injured player, with a 10 second bleed out timer, which will only pause at 1% remaining, meaning the player cannot stop the timer by mending, only by running. *Jailor:* Still has the widest detection range, and applies a 5% Hindered and Incapacitated to the survivor they are chasing. If they "hit" a survivor, they gain 5% Hindered and Incapacitated for 30 seconds. If they kick a generator, it regressed by 10%, and gets blocked for 30 seconds, preventing the bar from moving for the duration (does resume regressing after it unblocks).

[@sonusventorum5886]

This is Objectively the greatest react video of a react video of all time. 😎

[@rednuefil]

Didn’t like some personal attacks from both parties. Pixel didn’t get the fact that Skull Merchant is bad design and none of his points could prove otherwise. Yes, she’s counterable, yes, you need some skill to play her (a tiny portion), but she’s not engaging in any way for either killer or survivor. She’s not as bad as people say, nevertheless, she’s still in a bottom line of a killer pool.

[@rednuefil]

@@yuzuri4049 Oh, the type of person, who defends their lack of knowledge by saying things like “objectivity doesn’t exist”! Nice to meet you, hope you slept well.

[@firelinksshrine1695]

I'm surprised this got a vod and not a meme response

[@maximo88able]

This react videos are like a game of chess

[@flags4595]

11:15 yeah, it does. We all use literally and objectively wrong all the time, or at least in extremely hyperbolic ways. But to answer your question, yes, it'd be technically wrong to say "objectively" in that circumstance.

[@KnightEnjoyer69]

Scott praised the knight!!! Happy happy happy

[@Susie_Legion_DBD]

Jund charm absolutely has a place in most +1/+1 counters matter decks and it also fucks over commanders like Emmara or other such token commanders

[@ScottJund]

Ah I never do edh

[@painfullyavarage4316]

I think this series of videos has a longer runtime than behavior spent actually testing skull merchant

[@fluffymonster396]

Subjective ideas can sprout from objective observations, but the opposite isn't true. Subjectivity comes from the taste, opinion, and feelings of the person. Objectivity comes from not being influenced by these things.

[@iPyroNigma]

I've been making this point in several comments, particularly because people seem too convinced on the idea of objectivity and truth. I would like to propose the following wrench to be thrown into the mix. My argument is that, almost all of our human experience is lived through a process of intersubjectivity which then allows us to create the foundation of our beliefs, laws and actions. By doing so we create an "objective" reality. Hence an example of child labour. Sure, whether its good or bad is subjective in the straight sense of the word, but when society (through its intersubjectivity) agrees upon a "truth" (child labour is bad), it loses it subjectivity... at least in practice. In essence, I'm introducing into the argument the idea that "objectivity" can be created (and has been created irl) despite not existing there before. I would like to add that epistemology is a whole branch of philosophy dedicated to this issue, anthropology and sociology could also shed more insights (or wrenches) in this discussion.

[@fluffymonster396]

@@iPyroNigma There is no wrench. There's no benefit in pretending a word that means lack of opinion, taste and feeling (objective) has room to contain opinion, taste, and feeling (subjective). If you say something is objective, there is no wiggle room or reason to debate. It is reality. You can debate reality--not all opinions are are grounded by reality--but you will be dismissed by reasonable people. Objective things are things everyone can see and observe, despite differences in culture, preferences, and so on. A subjective idea can come from an objective one to ground it, but a subjective idea cannot lead into an objective one. The water is already muddied. Something could be good for the collective at the moment, and be subjective. Something being subjective doesn't mean it's wrong. Societies will either find ways to make things work and how success comes about can be dependent on the preferences and opinions of the people. That doesn't make what they do objective. What works for some cultures may not work for others. It doesn't do us well to pretend our opinions are objective truths. Opinions aren't objective. Shooting down other people's perspectives and ideas because you think a subjective thing is objective hurts the conversation. It closes you off to a new perspective. Something doesn't need to be objective to be worthwhile.

[@Theroyflynn]

Scott, you can't trust twitch chat to have philosophical conversations. They view debates like first year philosophy students. They jump to conclusions and don't stay open-minded enough to have a real discussion.

[@noahcollins1211]

Their argument for counter play is the same as against death slinger when he aims down sight and make certain survivors run not as efficiently which usually wides up in a m1

[@AnonymousMaykr]

I can't believe Scott keyed Pixels car. This drama is getting out of hand

[@beasthayabusa1999]

21:09 eh I see both sides. Mechanical counter play is fun, interesting, and does help interaction. But I would also argue that something like planning or attempting to outthink the killer is also interaction that you would really not define as mechanical.

[@pyroronnie2473]

This gonna last a century and i wont not laugh at it

[@Emmetlovesredvelvet13]

One total bromance moment being able to debate like proper adults good on you two, Next you guys should collab since your both in the cynical critic dbd review genre and three personally I'm just glad the changes stuck despite your obvious cynicism and fair criticism of the changes man

[@saikyue4462]

The thing is with Skull Merchant and the Skill expression is that you can basically apply it to so many killers cuz if there are only 2 options and you CAN still get hit either way then its no skill is kind of the opposite, you can get hit either way but you dont IF you play it right which is the skill expression, for example Artist, you place down a crow at a loop right at the pallet or window, you zone the survivor towards it, they go into it they get hit, they dont, you hit them. Or dredges remnant, he places his remnant you go towards his remnant he tps back and hits you, you go towards him, he cancels it and hits you. And with both those Killers having no skill expression in that sense, they are still not criticised or ranted about because its basically the same thing as skull merchants power, just not as obvious, so thats basically proof that things without mechanical counterplay can exist without people complaining on it as bad game design. Besides that you can counter all of those things by leaving the loop which imo is not mechanical counterplay but counterplay in terms of intelligence, cuz its just smart to leave the loop if its trapped to guarantee a hit on you and on top of that sits the fact that DbD is a 1v4 game so you still have 3 teammates which can flash light the crow, step into the remnant or deactivate the drone while ur looping the killer and there is the counterplay thats supposed to be there in a 1v4 game since its obviously meant as a team game for one side, so there doesnt need to be mechanical counterplay in a 1v1, because thats not the way the game is designed, the game is designed for a 1v4 playstyle not a 1v1 situation

[@whynot306]

Scott vastly overestimates knights power, i have literally watched survivors just walk past the guard and it doesnt react. The A.I. is absolutely broken lol

[@thehulkyman]

13:00 Achilles and the hare by Lewis Carroll

[@zxzolfo4114]

After 10 minutes i like this video and i find scott position balanced? Can't believe it!

[@Troub4dour]

When getting chased by the Skull Merchant or Knight its not survivor vs the killer. Its survivor vs an AI. You can't mind game a drone or a ghost. In the Blight scenario, the Blight still has to aim his rush and hit you at the right time. He has to adjust if you try to spin him and what if you don't leave the loop? What if you try to mind game and crouch around the loop cause you have the perks to pull it off? The point is, even against a good killer like Blight, YOU STILL HAVE OPTIONS. Versus the Knight and Skull Merchant it doesn't matter what build you have. You HAVE to leave the loop. You still have options versus the Blight depending on your build and they're skill. This is another reason I think people use sweaty ass perks, because those games you try something fun/annoying and maybe you have blast mine and flashbang, well those don't work on drones or ghosts. And that fucking sucks and pushes people away from using those more fun perks. This was a big debate in the League of Legends community once upon a time. A bunch of champions had targeted abilities that took zero skill to aim. Meaning you had no chance to outplay it. Recently they have gone back to releasing champs that are un-outplayable (K'Sante). And everyone, especially high mmr players who have the skill to outplay, complains about them. Either way, IT IS objectively true, that more people like game design that has outplayability. ITS SUPER IMPORTANT.

[@hairypotter5402]

"Scott 'subjectively sidetracked' Jund" blessed us with a long video.

[@cuddle899]

So what we learned is that Skull Merchant is an engaging Killer if Urban Evasion was base kit 🎉

[@dr.ludwig8189]

So... Pixel says Scott Jund sent a pipe bomb to his mail box right now. Are we really going to keep supporting this sick man?

[@martintorres7996]

This is the same level of comedy of jacksfilm reacting to jinx’s video reacting to jacksfilms video 🤣🤣🤣

[@collapsednan4131]

Heres my interpretation on the objectivity/subjectivity discussion near the start. The issue isn't that the statement "game design that isn't fun is bad" isn't objective. That pretty much is objective. On an individual basis pretty much everyone would agree that something they don't find fun, is bad. The subjevtive part is the rest of the statement "Skull merchant isn't fun". That is subjective, and using that subjective 'A = B' with the objective 'B = C' does not mean that objectively, A = C.

[@undertaker2766]

I don't know, I already found a counterplay to skull merchant, take the dc penalty. I'm pretty sure I interact more with that silly button than in a game against her.

[@dontyodelsohard2456]

I feel a similar way about new Sadako... I really liked old Sadako, I felt it took skill to play and was challenging (because she was a weak killer). Now I can only bring myself to play her for daily rituals. It just feels mindless going "Op, my cooldowns up, I have to teleport." And also, adding a cooldown to the teleport really ruins a key aspect of the character to me. Sure, the cooldown isn't too bad... But I like the ability to just pop around the map, it made me feel omnipresent, almost. Then there is the whole tape thing and how they might have made the Slugdako worse, or whatever, but as I never once played that way I couldn't care less... For me, the thematic element of the tapes was just sort of removed, which you stated that gameplay shouldn't be based on lore... I highly disagree. A power works best when it is working in-tandem with its lore. I just miss old Sadako : (

[@Fenneccinos]

but when will you play with pixel

[@fabiopauli420]

I always understood the whole Objective vs Subjective part as: Objective is a Fact that is proveable. For example the earth being round isnt a subjective opinion cause someone out there thinks its Flat. Its an Objective Fact that you can proof scientifically. A Subjective opinion is anything you cant 100% proof. „I think there is a god, Beef tastes better than Pork, Knight is more annoying than Skullmerchant to fight“ because either A. Its unprovable or B. You simply dont have sufficient data to proof anything yet. Edit: didnt realize you made the same point later xD

[@itsjoxius]

I think what you are trying to say passive hit vs active hit. I hate hate getting hit by npc like knight minions. I much rather get hit by a huntress hatchet. Cuz there’s human error involved. I can maybe make him think I’m going to strafe on a wall or hold w. I can fov tech her while she has hatchet up. I can’t fov tech a knight minion.

[@verygayowl4199]

Yeah, I think a fair bit of it is more about _feeling_ like you had the chance to outplay the other player, versus automatic mechanics where the hit just feels like an inevitability.