Vittorazi EFI: All my expectations were wrong...Scout Smarter Pilot

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SCOUT aviation

SCOUT aviation

Күн бұрын

All my expectations were wrong, what a humbling experience. See what we think about new Vittorazi EFI and what are the benefits or if there are some disadvantages.
Send us some questions or reserve your by filling the form in the end of the page here: www.scoutaviat...
We do a lot of research and development work at SCOUT aviation and we decided to document our successes and failures on KZbin. We believe that better having a deep understanding will make you a better pilot (and eventually a scout pilot:-)).
Secondarily, one wise man said that the best way to learn something is to try to explain it to others. And that exactly was how we got to the idea of improving the tandem bars.
We will continue to document our research and development activities. At the moment there are a few in progress:
1. the variomatic propeller - • Will this be the best ...
2. tandem bars
3. new throttle design - • Will this be the perfe...
4. paramotor computer
5. new paramotor helmet
Just recently we finished the pod harness with climb assist - • Scout Zero details, sp...
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By leaving nice words in the comments you will make me and my team feel rewarded for all the work.
By becoming a SCOUT customer you will directly support our efforts in the future.
Thank you for any of that.
Miroslav
miroslav@svoutaviation.com
www.scoutaviation.com

Пікірлер: 107
@LukasKuhelj
@LukasKuhelj 10 ай бұрын
I really hope that the variomatic prop will work with the EFI in the future, both are such great inventions - would be a shame, if the would not be compatible..
@error.418
@error.418 10 ай бұрын
Finally, the opinion I was craving to hear. I still need to get my own hands on one and do my own experiments, but nice to see someone who cares about details giving an in-depth look, especially one who considers aircraft systems and complexity trade-offs.
@Ellwoodsss1
@Ellwoodsss1 10 ай бұрын
It’s been challenging to convey to people how revolutionary this engine is. You nailed it dude. Nice job
@CalebJohnsonlivingca
@CalebJohnsonlivingca 10 ай бұрын
I will be impressed by EFI too when it's actually proven to be reliable (not just an optimistic feeling from a few flights), the weight comes down, it has it's own alternator, and it's affordable. There are still critical problems to solve before it can be viable for its most valuable use case... long XC.
@gregorpajnic4739
@gregorpajnic4739 10 ай бұрын
then buy it as soon as possible. Nothing you stated wont happen if first batch of units is not selling.
@patrickmckowen2999
@patrickmckowen2999 7 ай бұрын
11:55 ​@@gregorpajnic4739 I thought that is what R&D is for. To put out a tested, proven product. Cheers
@MADFORIT-m8r
@MADFORIT-m8r 3 ай бұрын
Already Proven!
@mcgyver512
@mcgyver512 10 ай бұрын
👍Great info and perspective! Thank you!
@purplepenguin43
@purplepenguin43 9 ай бұрын
for the battery situation i cant help but think you could just add a tiny windmill genorator to charge the battery, or you already have a belt for the Prop, maybe add a little idle wheel/ tensioner wheel to the outside of the belt that drives a tiny genorator. it seems like a very solveable problem. also the EFI should work better with the crappy ethanol laced gasoline we have in the USA. its on my list to save up for paramotor training, hopefully by the time im ready to buy a paramotor this will have proven itself reliable.
@turkeyphant
@turkeyphant 10 ай бұрын
Now if they made an EFI Atom 80 I'd be interested...
@haukeplambeck
@haukeplambeck 10 ай бұрын
EFI Atom80 might go below 2l/h fuel consumption at level fligh...
@turkeyphant
@turkeyphant 10 ай бұрын
@@haukeplambeck I would love that but the breakeven on flight-time with the extra weight will probably be close to 2h so probably not worth it for a lot of people.
@Robbo1966
@Robbo1966 10 ай бұрын
I would love one of these machines, fantastic fuel economy, reassurance on idle and easy start, wow
@nico_albrecht
@nico_albrecht 10 ай бұрын
I am looking forward to efi for the atom 80. 🤤
@dewolfeFSP
@dewolfeFSP Ай бұрын
The Ural Motorcycle went through this change and it reinvigorated the model.
@dogon1013
@dogon1013 10 ай бұрын
in flight charging using an air powered generator should allow you to extend the battery life. I am sure Vitorazzi or someone is working on one. They are used on some full size aircraft.
@apsestasis
@apsestasis 10 ай бұрын
that would add a lot of drag
@wildcard9724
@wildcard9724 10 ай бұрын
All they have to do is attach a couple of magnets on the flywheel/pulley, attach a stator, with a smaller battery! Done! No rocket science involved!
@corycardwell
@corycardwell 10 ай бұрын
Thank you Scout for all of your videos. Sure wish they would do the EFI on Factory Rs.
@MADFORIT-m8r
@MADFORIT-m8r 3 ай бұрын
Parajet do
@corycardwell
@corycardwell 3 ай бұрын
@@MADFORIT-m8r that must be new. the last time I talked to them they said they were only going to do the standard motor. I'll look into it thanks
@MADFORIT-m8r
@MADFORIT-m8r 2 ай бұрын
@@corycardwell Sorry mate my mistake. I seen the words Pro | R | EFI on the new Mav Max and presumed they did but they're all separate systems. My hands are up, sorry mate.
@flyingdanwitha29sedan
@flyingdanwitha29sedan 9 ай бұрын
Just amazing!! Great video guys!
@ParapenteAngola
@ParapenteAngola 4 ай бұрын
6:00: gravem essa resposta. E digo desde já, concordo em ela. A questão é a mesma quando se fala do FlatTop. Muitos aparecem a reclamar por ser antigo, mas lembrem-se, como aqui foi dito: na aviação, o mais importante é a segurança e fiabilidade. Coisas que o flattop me oferece. Faz 10 anos que tenho o meu e apenas troquei de motor. Já me salvou em muitos situações.
@JK-rv9tp
@JK-rv9tp 16 күн бұрын
Speaking of single point of failure, my biggest concern would be having a redundant channel in the ECU, even if it's only a "limp home" channel like car ECUs. Hardware, you can make robust enough to be reliable by overbuilding or by inspection/test to detect degradation prior to failure. Electronics tend to work until they don't. Also, why they don't just incorporate a small PM Generator on the engine and reduce the size of the battery?
@reinerressel975
@reinerressel975 10 ай бұрын
Nice video again, EFI ist definitely a advantage ! But the difference in fuel flow is impossible . Fuel air mixture = full rich ( nearly with choke) is 12,5 /1 ( low EGT or burning temp.) full lean 16/1 high EGT or burning temp.very low power) .
@CloudflyerPPG
@CloudflyerPPG 10 ай бұрын
You’re not taking into account that air density is not the same at all altitudes, or even temperatures. Where carburetors muscle through everything with the same amount of fuel regardless, efi adjusts on the fly to maintain a specific parameter. Now that he is tested it, I have more faith that it’s actually true because he admitted he was wrong. He’s not interested in protecting a narrative that is not true.
@johncpescod
@johncpescod 10 ай бұрын
I wonder why they decided not to have a small generator/alternator to charge the battery as every other efi engine has.
@CalebJohnsonlivingca
@CalebJohnsonlivingca 10 ай бұрын
I'm going to guess it put them over some target weight. You'd need another motor, bracket, and charging circuit in an enclosure. Would prolly add at least 2lb for the juice they need to run that pump. 10lb would just be way too much to add.
@gregorpajnic4739
@gregorpajnic4739 10 ай бұрын
What other efi engine can I buy today for my paramotor?
@samik83
@samik83 10 ай бұрын
@@CalebJohnsonlivingca I doubt it would weight much at all. A small alternator that is put on the same drive belt with the prop. Pretty sure the draw on the system is quite low and wouldn't need much to keep up. The weight of the electronics would be negligible. And remember they are now hauling that big battery that could be changed for a smaller one. Could be that it just complicated the design too much. Still, would have gone with the alternator as now your just adding a limitation that the carb version don't have.
@CalebJohnsonlivingca
@CalebJohnsonlivingca 10 ай бұрын
@@samik83 I've made my own generator for Moster and now Nirvana, each was about 1.5-2lb. prolly you could do it more efficiently, but it's a data point. 🤷‍♂️
@samik83
@samik83 10 ай бұрын
@@CalebJohnsonlivingca Thats awesome! Would love to see some photos / videos how you did that. And why? ;)
@MrTL3wis
@MrTL3wis 4 ай бұрын
They need to use an easy swap battery like you might find in a cordless hand drill. You could take several with you and, with a big enough capacitor, have it hot-swap capable.
@apsestasis
@apsestasis 10 ай бұрын
The battery is what kills it for me. Yes, you save fuel, but you becone limited by the battery instead. You can get most of the same advantages just by using a smartcarb instead
@goldwingerppg5953
@goldwingerppg5953 10 ай бұрын
That was my exact concern too.
@NicholasStreet
@NicholasStreet 10 ай бұрын
What’s a smart carb?
@7royalseven7
@7royalseven7 10 ай бұрын
Smart Carb works perfekt ob MX Bikes , good idea
@apsestasis
@apsestasis 10 ай бұрын
@@NicholasStreet a self adjusting carburettor without jets. They're used in motosports. There's one for thor 202.
@samik83
@samik83 10 ай бұрын
This. I don't see how they couldn't incorporate a small alternator in that thing. I bet the amp draw is really small in that system, so it wouldn't need much and you could use a smaller battery to off set the weight of the alternator.
@JukkaJuvankoski
@JukkaJuvankoski 10 ай бұрын
Finally, this came as a working model. You mentioned at the beginning of the video that the engine's center of gravity is now further back. This, however, is a bad thing. The center of gravity matters to me. Is this really the case? Does some unit take up more space in terms of depth?
@SCOUTaviation
@SCOUTaviation 10 ай бұрын
Yes, the engine sits 20mm further back. Not a big deal but I am purist when it comes to paramotor geometry. I understand why they did it and I would do the same in their position. The simplicity of the installation outweighs the disadvantage of the added depth.
@RickMcGovern
@RickMcGovern 6 ай бұрын
I need one of those!
@AndrewGlobus
@AndrewGlobus Ай бұрын
Moster EFI is the first engine in aviation history without magnetto, alternator, charging coil. After 7 hours of flying in have to look for an electrical socket and wait 1 hour until you can continue your flight. The Iphone philosophy is now in the paramotor world as well. In cold climates and in winter, the battery life is reduced to 3.5 hours. Over time, the battery degrades and its capacity decreases. For your 6000 euros Now you need to consider all these additional factors when planning your XC flight.
@huffpappy
@huffpappy 10 ай бұрын
I wonder if they couldn't use a charging coil/voltage regulator to charge the battery while the engine is running. I know it's probably a LiPo, but it really shouldn't be that big a deal to do this.
@pepperjackshack2439
@pepperjackshack2439 10 ай бұрын
They need a balancer if so. Can’t get a single cell 12v LiPo so you need a recharge balancer
@chuckaeronut
@chuckaeronut 9 ай бұрын
@@pepperjackshack2439 If all you're doing is ignition and sensors and the current draw is small enough, you could use a boost circuit to make 12 V from the single-cell voltage. That would shrink the battery as well. Unfortunately, you'd rule out the e-starter if you need more current than that. I would say that the balancing circuit could be effectively omitted as long as balancing the battery on a typical charger is added to the list of maintenance tasks for every 25-50 hours of use or so. The battery will not go out of balance on one or even ten flights.
@Cornpop01
@Cornpop01 9 ай бұрын
I always wondered why the sport hasn't come to EFI. What horsepower does the motor put out? I am interested in this system because I live at high altitude and want to fly a MonoTrike with a Fox 13 wing. They say I need at least a 30 horsepower motor to get me off the ground.
@michroz
@michroz 10 ай бұрын
With all respect for hard work - how come they don't have an in-flight alternator and charger!? And the "60 seconds" story also sounds like something about the vivid Italian imagination.
@Mrremusakajack
@Mrremusakajack 8 ай бұрын
All are good with the KTM but they also have the problem with the FIEM electric starter which is usless . Why still they used it ???
@DarioushAryan
@DarioushAryan 2 ай бұрын
bravoo ... great
@TONYPARAMOTOR
@TONYPARAMOTOR 10 ай бұрын
its like having a ecu module on the paramotor. and back ups.... if murphys law comes around... time will tell.
@turkeyphant
@turkeyphant 10 ай бұрын
Unless you're huge, you really don't need a 185. What's wrong with just using a Top 80 + Viper XC and getting 2.1 L/h? Reliable, much lighter, much simpler and much better fuel economy. With my 18 L tank I can fly for 7-8 hours.
@CalebJohnsonlivingca
@CalebJohnsonlivingca 10 ай бұрын
- Launching and flying at high altitude. - Launching out of tight LZs. - Launching with camping gear and extra fuel. - Climbing while in mountain sink. - Climbing while accelerated. I have seen and experienced myself that Atom80 doesn't cut it for adventure flying. I learned on top80, but quickly outgrew it when I started adventure XC flying.
@turkeyphant
@turkeyphant 10 ай бұрын
@@CalebJohnsonlivingca I and many others have done that several times with Atom 80 and Top 80.
@WebberAerialImaging
@WebberAerialImaging 10 ай бұрын
Because when you want or need extra power, you can't squeeze More from an 80. All the guys I fly with that switched from their 80 were thrilled and never considered going back. Mileage may vary, of course. Enjoy what you fly.
@turkeyphant
@turkeyphant 10 ай бұрын
@@WebberAerialImaging 140 prop makes enough difference
@SCOUTaviation
@SCOUTaviation 10 ай бұрын
Then you obviously don’t need the moster EFI. And that’s ok. If I was a lighter pilot I would fly atom 80 for sure. It is a lovely engine.
@KaiSyversen
@KaiSyversen 8 ай бұрын
with a small alternator, it could generate enough power to slowly charge the battery, and also will be self sustained if the battery dies.
@SCOUTaviation
@SCOUTaviation 8 ай бұрын
Vittorazi has a version of this motor with electric start that recharges the battery during flight. I do not know why they decided not to use the same battery charging system for EFI.
@KaiSyversen
@KaiSyversen 8 ай бұрын
@@SCOUTaviation Perhaps that will be the "upgraded" version when they release a new model?
@tonyslovak8695
@tonyslovak8695 10 ай бұрын
What's wrong to have charger on this set up? I think rotary engine Omega 1 is the future, so far it has been taken by US military....
@CloudflyerPPG
@CloudflyerPPG 10 ай бұрын
Solar cell for the battery. Perhaps in tow like a chase cam.
@limesandstripes
@limesandstripes 5 ай бұрын
Can I upgrade my current scout?
@guyintci
@guyintci 10 ай бұрын
any word on EFI for factory R?
@corycardwell
@corycardwell 10 ай бұрын
I emailed parajet and recieved word that there has been zero consideration at this point by vitto to put it on the factory R. I think that is a mistake. I think many people like myself would step up to the new technology if they were also getting the factory R benefits.
@sailor-rick
@sailor-rick 10 ай бұрын
So assuming I am the same weight as you -- about 200 pounds -- and I also use the EFI and the variomatic prop, what kind of fuel usage per hour might I expect -- at low altitude.
@SCOUTaviation
@SCOUTaviation 10 ай бұрын
We tried the variomatic with the EFI but the engine did not work. I have sent a prop to Vittorazi and they promised to try to set a new fuel map for this prop. Theory predicts there should be additional fuel efficiency benefits from EFI+Variomatic combo
@sailor-rick
@sailor-rick 10 ай бұрын
@@SCOUTaviation New fuel map for the EFI -- is probably a lot more complex than it sounds... much much more complex.
@maddogmorgan1
@maddogmorgan1 10 ай бұрын
Put on exhausts that don't crack and I'll be impressed
@wildcard9724
@wildcard9724 10 ай бұрын
Supposedly, the EFI helps with that.
@chuckaeronut
@chuckaeronut 9 ай бұрын
My exhaust is 300 hours old and rusty and hasn't shown any sign of failure. I'm of the opinion that they fixed their cracking exhausts with MY20.
@etbenson67
@etbenson67 10 ай бұрын
What about a lightweight portable solar charger 4 the battery?
@michroz
@michroz 10 ай бұрын
Unless you manage to charge in-flight, the solar is useless for unsuported adventure, cause you fly in daylight and would need to charge overnight. I guess, peoople would need to pack small cranking generators with them... ))
@CalebJohnsonlivingca
@CalebJohnsonlivingca 10 ай бұрын
You'd need a big panel to keep up with that fuel pump.
@SkydivingAndPPG
@SkydivingAndPPG 10 ай бұрын
Does it also solve carb icing in cold and moist conditions?
@haukeplambeck
@haukeplambeck 10 ай бұрын
What? When does the carburator ice? What condition must there be? Never heard about this. Curious to learn. Flying in Finland it might be useful to know and avoid. Thank you.
@SkydivingAndPPG
@SkydivingAndPPG 10 ай бұрын
@@haukeplambeck kzbin.info/www/bejne/bGbHm5ikg66SftEsi=Yc99xmb3zkKjgjZA
@wauki1
@wauki1 5 ай бұрын
No,it does not solve carb icing. EFI have also a throttle valve like conventional carb, which causes carb icing
@JohnHansknecht
@JohnHansknecht 10 ай бұрын
"They" invite you to Italy as a future sales rep and make you pay? That's messed up.
@SCOUTaviation
@SCOUTaviation 10 ай бұрын
I had the same prejudice. The training turned out great, the fee covered the hotel and food and they treated us with utmost care.
@wildcard9724
@wildcard9724 10 ай бұрын
@@SCOUTaviation Well, as long as they took you to dinner first!
@HippocratesGarden
@HippocratesGarden 10 ай бұрын
What kind of battery is it that once it is "dead" (voltage drops to effectively zero) can't be charged back up? Sounds like a lead based battery, LiPo's can go to zero and back up, especially if it has a bms, just wake it back up. Power tools do this all the time. Heck, on my Rodeo, I yanked the Nimh out and got a lithium made for RC cars and it's a huge step up.
@SCOUTaviation
@SCOUTaviation 10 ай бұрын
Lipo
@roostnureye
@roostnureye 10 ай бұрын
You do not run your lipos to zero volts and recover them. Sorry bud, that's not how lipos work
@mrsonor1090
@mrsonor1090 9 ай бұрын
5 years... so, they invented the wheel again and learned all about it. Yeah, that could take 5 years if you are only a few people working on it. How about getting someone with all the knowledge and do it in 1 or 2 years. But I'll guess now they have a reason to really make us pay for it. Because this isn't gonna be a cheap system. That's why it's gonna take a while to be a revolution in the sport, if ever. The way batteries are developing, that could be a "threat" before this system gets cheap enough for everyone to buy. We don't know what batteries gonna be able to "in the future", solid state and stuff, and when that "future" will be available, and now you also have the EOS 4-stroke, so I think we have to get a better price on that EFI-motor. Just some thoughts for someone that had an really old Solo 210 motor at the early 2000, flying planes in between and now is looking for a new rig to start with the sport again. Been thinking of a Scout with the EOS or maybe an electric conversion. The batteries almost fill my needs now. We'll see, but thanks for your input on the Vittorazi EFI. Always a lot of info. Take care - Many hugs from Sweden.
@SCOUTaviation
@SCOUTaviation 8 ай бұрын
Things have changed a lot since the times of solo210.... Once you are ready to re-enter the sport feel free to reach out to us to discuss.
@krzysztofbartnik
@krzysztofbartnik 10 ай бұрын
And still 2 stroke engine for 6000 € 😂. No battery no fly. Battery life max 5 hrs......High No.
@chrisultrabeatuk
@chrisultrabeatuk 9 ай бұрын
£1.45 per hour fuel saving, Limited flight times, Too expensive. Well done for trying but it is too soon for the customer
@SCOUTaviation
@SCOUTaviation 8 ай бұрын
This is not about calculating return on investment. This is about feeling it. - feeling amazed by flying further and discovering the hidden on the other side - feeling relaxed and enjoy the moment fully by trusting the engine - feeling satisfied by getting into the air 99% of the time and not fiddling on the ground. The engine is worth it if you feel that way. Yet I understand the price is steep and many pilots will need to wait until the technology becomes more affordable. I wish it will be soon. And I also understand that there are still riders riding carbureted motorcycles because it is emotional to them. What a beautiful world we live in.
@stealcian74
@stealcian74 9 ай бұрын
That difference in price buys ALOT of gas.
@SCOUTaviation
@SCOUTaviation 8 ай бұрын
If you calculate return on investment, you better do not buy this engine.
@Adrenalinspunk
@Adrenalinspunk 10 ай бұрын
No real use what so ever yess you save fuel but then gou have a big bulky controller thats a lines catching hazards your limited to batter and if you forget to charge the batter you aint flying not only that the price is shocking. As for the exhaust nonsense it falls down to how the exhaust is pressed and it strained not rolled and welded together. Its all nonsense something the paramotor dont need.
@JohnUllrey
@JohnUllrey 10 ай бұрын
Next challenge for you Miro, design and develop a Ram Air Turbine (RAT) for EFI paramotors that will keep the battery topped up. ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_air_turbine )
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