The secret of EFI explained and reproduced with regular carburetor - Smarter Pilot series

Can we match or even outperform a fuel consuption of EFI with a reguralar carburator? If so, what modifications we will need for it and is it sustainable?
All answers on these questions you can find on our video!
We do a lot of research and development work at SCOUT aviation and we decided to document our successes and failures on KZbin. We believe that better having a deep understanding will make you a better pilot (and eventually a scout pilot:-)).
Secondarily, one wise man said that the best way to learn something is to try to explain it to others. And that exactly was how we got to the idea of improving the tandem bars.
We will continue to document our research and development activities. At the moment there are a few in progress:
1. the variomatic propeller - • Will this be the best ...
2. tandem bars
3. new throttle design - • Will this be the perfe...
4. paramotor computer
5. new paramotor helmet
Just recently we finished the pod harness with climb assist - • Scout Zero details, sp...
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By leaving nice words in the comments you will make me and my team feel rewarded for all the work.
By becoming a SCOUT customer you will directly support our efforts in the future.
Thank you for any of that.
Miroslav
[e-mail]
www.scoutaviation.com

[@johncpescod]

Another great video from my favourite paramotor company!

[@ogcadam9096]

That's why with a proper PWK float bowl carb you can easily set the top range with powerjet, having a 3l avarage on my Sky 150

[@julianweijler2109]

Great work, again! From a technical perspective they did an amazing job at Vittorazi, but that battery is something I will absolutely not like on my setup. I love the simplicity of the two stroke carbs, and probably stick to that for a good while, not complaining.

[@AndrewGlobus]

On older 60 year old GA planes this innovation is called a control knob with a mixture of blue and red colors.

[@olafbleibtreu1887]

Great video and excellent commentary.

[@702BattleBorn]

Yo SA, thanks for the analytical breakdown. You time in this video is greatly appreciated. Have a pleasant day. Cheers

[@SkyHikerMike]

You are awesome! Always putting out the most quality of material! Still bummed I didn’t get to meet you the last airman adventure. Hopefully in the future! Safe landings fellow bird!

[@SCOUTaviation]

September 2024 again! I am finishing the route right now

[@doolittlegeorge]

Efi (fuel mapping) can be a great thing if you want to add a turbocharger as adding such complexity might as well go all the way. Certainly great at reducing noise. "Power when you need it" versus reliability is a big time trade off so trying to perfect both is a worthy effort. The cost of these systems and reliability is much better thanks to the World of motorcycles and sport ATVs. Garmin GPS and mapping systems might be set to revolutionize this niche as well.

[@iKenFlyPPG]

About 700C is close to stoichiometric with a Thor 202 float carb at cruise 5-6k rpms, with an EGT in a standard polini location, coming from my measurements using a lambda oxygen sensor (to get real-time air fuel ratio). I have years experience working on oem powertrains and engine calibration, I repeated over and over to gain confidence in my jettings and more important, needles. I target 14.7:1 AFR stoichiometric aka lambda 1.0. The beauty of paramotors is that it has a built-in load for 'dynamometer' testing of an engine which is in the form of a spinning propeller and the fluid that is air to resist it, also self cooling, I love it. I built a paramotor test stand that I stake to the ground and run up the engine to full power, however more useful for idle and cruise tuning which is the most challenging even with an oxygen sensor, those pesky needles. At about 115-120 kg all up 140 eprops, I measured consistently with this thor 202 at 0.90, 0.93 gal/hr (3.4, 3.5 l/hr) burn rate with a 28m Uni 1.1, 22m Nuc 4. That's flying a couple hours exploring 0-1,000 ft, I like trims out until I go low, no aerobatic duty cycles.

[@ogcadam9096]

Isn't 700C too much?

[@iKenFlyPPG]

@@ogcadam9096 Polini specs 700C in writing, some facebookie says they say up to 720C. I am a professional engine calibrator, 700C is about stoichiometric based on my testing with the equipment I can afford. I monitor temps in flight, it runs the best at 700C, I flown at 720C as well. It's risky running at stoich if you don't monitor your EGTs which is a difficult burden for most ppg pilots.

[@ogcadam9096]

@@iKenFlyPPG Surprising, I set my midrange to run at 620 on Sky 150, Sky says 660 is safe, but aluminium melting point is 660, don't have a lambda sensor, might though lean a tad out, thank you for your reply!

[@iKenFlyPPG]

@@ogcadam9096 You're not wrong, however consider the myth is EGT temps are the same for all engines and this is incorrect because often it's different for different engines. The Polini Thor engines and 'precision' placement of the EGT across all models was characterized to that ~700C temperature. I have confirmed this independently specifically the Thor 202 engine and is apples to apples between Thor 202 engines (I do sometimes leave this disclaimer however my posts are lengthy enough). I was on a twin turbo gas oem development project a little bit ago in the dyno cells I was assigned to one of them as the engineer, the EGTs were over 900C pre-turbo. The turbines are an inconel alloy which can get stronger at high temps.

[@iKenFlyPPG]

@@ogcadam9096 Look up Micheal Forrest (channel name) videos and binge the 2 stroke tuning and oil videos, check out his plug reading video where piston wash is a more accurate indicator and plug reading is not what you think. He doesn't use a lambda O2 sensor but don't think he needs it as he has been doing this for a while. I'm a nerd who knows what gadgets to use and it does feel like cheating.

[@modus_ponens]

When you showed the fuel thank invention, I chuckled a bit for the level of engineering here done for this project 😏. Amazing! To be honest, I was skeptical that the EFI fuel consumption numbers were true, because they were so low. Thought that the fuel consumption losses come from the two stroke cycle, not from the carb. So, learnt new here.

[@user-ox6nc6ly7f]

7:04 it happened on my dirt bike on a frozen river, kx500 ported for ice racing, final drive 17:40, full throttle non stop... at the limit of the engine's power. it took 10km at 300kph... ~2 minutes.

[@michroz]

Thank you! I am comming to the same idea we need to lean the mixture as it is needed and safe. Let's hope the EFIs come standard soon! (Or the more capable electric batteries - whatever comes first :) ). Meanwhile I strongly recommend to install the inexpensive but efficient EGT as a standard flight equipment! It shows very well if your carb settings are correct and can prevent your engine from problems. You will easily notice something is wrong by checking the EGT in flight from time to time. For comparison, the CGT is not that helpful.

[@juricazpg]

Great analysis!

[@stefanwestphal4489]

Tack så jättemycket för en bra förklaring. 👍

[@MikeTuason]

Awesome technical review, thank you.

[@ParadigmaClubUK]

good job! Thank you so much!

[@jimsimard]

Beautiful video thanks

[@MarkLoves2Fly]

This is great information Miro! Thanks

[@kurtmoorelifeinthesky7993]

Cool video 👍

[@JohnUllrey]

Really interesting subject, thanks for doing the research.

[@jonnomcintosh8336]

I wish I could hit that like button multiple times to support you more. Love your work and innovation Miro! I’m currently saving up to purchase a new scout machine in the next 2 years! My trusty old scout is still going like a dream though 👌🏽☺️🪂

[@SCOUTaviation]

I appreciate that! you made my day:-)

[@_daricek]

👏 nice piece of engineering

[@adamsilver7268]

Any way you could design a correlator that opens the high jet as you add more throttle? So you could tune for economy in flight but when you need to hit the throttle, the correlator opens the high jet more.

[@stevier3239]

I liked the music. Here’s an idea; some aircraft have a drogue propeller-driven generator which can be deployed in the event of generator failure. Make a smaller version for the EFI paramotor. Might be something more suited for the trike crowd. Larger fuel tank, same battery as the stock EFI. Charges the battery and also self maintaining (assuming it is being driven in flight).

[@markallisonparamotor]

Brave man, interesting video, glad you didn't hole your piston!

[@apsestasis]

here's the problem though - you couldn't do the Icarus with this engine due to battery limitation. In my opinion that defeats the purpose

[@steveupp]

Bring a bigger battery. You fly with a bigger gas tank, you bring oil, you can bring bigger batteries with you too.

[@apsestasis]

@@steveupp which weigh even more, take up even more space and charge for longer. Do you really want to bring a charger on a long XC trip as well? Finding fuel is easy, filling up is quick. Finding a place to charge may not be as easy, it takes much longer and overall is just an additional limitation. I don't understand why they couldn't just use a generator instead.

[@fasst45072]

The Moster EFI battery gives you about 7 hours run time if you start the engine 20 times or less. They have an accessory to run up to 3 batteries. Thats about 21hrs runtime. The battery takes less than an hour to charge from 0-100. The battery on the MosterEFI is not the limiting factor that everyone thinks it will be

[@apsestasis]

@@fasst45072 weird, because i've read 4 hours. Yeah, you can always bring additional batteries and a charger, but who wants to do that? Who wants to carry all that extra weight? The fact of the matter is with a regular engine your limiting factor is fuel. With this engine it's both fuel and battery, which in my opinion does not justify the only real advantage it offers - which is lower fuel consumption

[@fasst45072]

@@apsestasis you would have to start it probably 40 times to only get 4 hours out of MosterEFI. I think when I landed after crossing Florida with MosterEFi I want to say I had 40% battery left? That was a 4.5 hour flight straight other than to piss and shit. Every MosterEFI battery I’ve used has ran for over 8 hours so Vittorazi’s estimate of 7 hours has been pretty conservative in my experience so far. We’ve had our MosterEFI since last July. The charger weighs about a pound(I’ll try and remember to weigh it tomorrow morning)and the battery itself is less than 2lbs each. The battery has been the least of my concern so far with MosterEFI. Honestly the E-starter has been what I think will be the most problematic part though ours has been totally flawless coming up on 50 hours. Our videos focused on the efficiency though there are so many other advantages to MosterEFI. Big one being telemetry. Probably 70% of paramotor pilots have never turned a wrench in their life so trying to help them troubleshoot over the phone or through pics and videos through email can really be challenging. Telemetry eliminates all that if there are problems with MosterEFI. It’s different and of course I expect everyone to be skeptical of it at first but man, it changes the way you fly. I don’t know how else to explain it. I love my Factory R but MosterEFI is definitely my next engine

[@sideburnie]

using peak EGT (probably "stoic"-ish, 14.5ish:1) for your efficiency test is great thinking, but i think you'll actually find even higher efficiency running "lean of peak" (close to where the motor almost shut off on you) at an AFR closer to 17:1. this is particularly safer while running avgas, and I think it's what many piston powered aircraft do for an efficient cruise. regardless of my theoretical mumbo jumbo, and if it would actually pan out, your gear drive for fixing the atrocious midrange mixture on all of our dogsh*t chainsaw carbs is very, very exciting. bravo sir!

[@DZig]

Thanks Miro. I'll stay with the standard carb on my My 19/Scout carbon. Still going strong! (5+ liters /hour though!)

[@abdulaljassar4307]

great information , thank you very much for all your time and experiments. By the way, what make is your helmet ? Thank you and keep up the good work.

[@dmytroshvets9644]

At a minimum Vittorazi need to install a generator to recharge the battery

[@RwP223]

Estart moster has the option, it must be dirty power, where chemical storage (batteries) is clean power (clean in terms of electrical noise). There could be electrical interference problems where Vitto can void warranties if you installed your own charging system type of thing.

[@grahamnielsen4797]

You forgot to take into account air temperature whereas when cold the air is denser (more power) vs hot is less dence, yes a carb can do efficient economy , however if you can remap the efi it can save the engine if tuned right! Better

[@toetbakker]

We need a intercooler 😀

[@MrMartin0815]

Great video as always! Thank you. Do you see a risk in leaning out the low needle while high needle is still in default position? What du you think at what rpm the high needle takes over the main fuel rlow?

[@SCOUTaviation]

Low rpm (idle) is not affected by leaning the high jet at all. Midrange cruise rpm is obviously affected by high needle. I don’t know to what extent it is affected by the low needle but it makes no sense to experiment on that. The low needle needs to be adjusted to make starting and idling of the engine smooth. I had no reason not means to adjust the low needle in flight.

[@kieran4278]

Low jet makes a big difference in midrange. If I tune my scout so it barely starts and idle, it runs really nice and gets good fuel economy. 😅

[@nunyabidness9257]

This video makes me wonder how an altitude compensating carburetor like a SmartCarb would work on an application like this…. Supposed to get EFI levels of response and low consumption but the cost and simplicity of a carb…

[@toetbakker]

Looks of it is something new, but hirth has this kind of injection 20 years ago already!

[@SCOUTaviation]

Two stroke motocross and enduro bikes had EFI long time ago as well. Sad it did not penetrate into paramotoring earlier. I am grateful it has finally arrived.

[@purplepenguin43]

Excellent science, i hope to be able to afford a scout one day. Does the adjustable propeller work with the efi to reduce fuel consumption even more? or is the propeller achiving a similar effect by putting the carb engine in a lower power band, so the EFI plus prop is the same as just efi or just prop. I'm sure this is already on your mind and i can't wait to hear your testing. as a few people have mentioned there seems to be something going on with the audio, like it keeps switching from mono to stereo. very watchable but a bit off putting.

[@SCOUTaviation]

the EFI fuel map is based on RPM and throttle position and then corrected by EGT reading. Unfortunately the EFI did not work with Variomatic and a different map would be needed. we will keep on working on this idea though.

[@littlefreak3000]

I am waiting for smartcarb to make carbs for vitorazzi engines.

[@ryansouthwell]

What would be the most you would turn the hi jet safely to achieve better results?

[@SCOUTaviation]

That is exactly the problem: you can only find out its limits by burning through a few pistons. I did not do that, I do not know where the limits are. Standard setting is 75-80 minutes open (1+1/4 to 1+1/3 turn) . I guess the most dangerous zone is around 60 minutes = 1 turn = so there is really not much room for play on the ground. Only with in-flight adjustment.

[@turkeyphant]

If they make an atom 80 efi I would def buy it.

[@iKenFlyPPG]

Here was my response to the Vittorazi EFI release: kzbin.info_Dd_iwPc2CU

[@SCOUTaviation]

i myself have zero experience on this. Just heard that AFR/lambda sensors get clogged within 20 hours on two strokes. I am sure Vitto would use that if that was an option.

[@iKenFlyPPG]

@@SCOUTaviation Agreed generally speaking this is why I recommend using it to tune your settings for a particular range of Density Altitude and then remove it. Once you correlate the AFR to EGT temps, you don't need to keep running the lambda O2 sensor for monitoring cruise to WOT. Where low load/idle regions aren't spicy enough to burn up a motor. I think a significant factor is running too rich with the lambda O2 installed that will accelerate the build up, which is often the default state of all factory 2 strokes. Running closer to stoich will burn more 'cleanly', converting more of the fuel/oil mixture and reduce the buildup. This all started chasing my tail after swapping to a non-standard carb (exchange Delorto VHST to Keihin PWK). If you're way off with fueling, the EGT can be quite misleading, an excessively rich condition can yield high EGTs (combustion in the exhaust port). Ignition timing is another topic that impacts EGT significantly, and this is another area of concern that we pilots are stuck using dumb static timing coils leaving efficiency on the table, these are however quite reliable for the cost so there's the tradeoff.

[@RominaSosaSchnoerr]

Great video but terrible audio

[@MrGoMario]

Electric is the way to go...... By 2026 you can buy a 20 Kg battery pack with 12 Kw/h of juice. That is good for 2h+ of flight time 👍