Scrum Halves' Offside Line

The scrum half, or number 9, has numerous options for where to stand at the scrum in rugby union.
This video explains them; including one that may come as a surprise to some.

[@timbopcdc3027]

What a fantastic way to demonstrate an offside line legend

[@colesiepman9817]

No idea Wayne had a KZbin channel, absolutely lit

[@donaloconnor371]

Excellent way of describing the details Wayne. Du Pont did this this season and negated the attack. Most people reckoned he was offside.

[@johnmosey5606]

That make perfect sense, Barnsey...I mean, Sir.

[@matyoukee799]

So why have I never seen a team do it?

[@emmatennyson5473]

More please.

[@nicknick6788]

Thanks for a great set of clear explanations. Perhaps you could help with offside at the ruck. Specifically 1. Are guards stood at the side of the ruck and not bound offside? If so why are they allowed to get away with it? And 2. If the dreaded Caterpillar forms then how can the scrum half move the ball down the caterpillar without being offside in front of the hindmost foot?

[@abcdefs100]

Not sure about 1, but anyone in front of the hind foot is offside, so I think that just comes down to sharp refereeing. I think 2 is simply because the Scrummy's using their foot and not their hands, but could be wrong.

[@geoffreyormsby3941]

My understanding is that 9 can only extend out 5 meters from the scrum - am I correct

[@terrydickson9002]

so this example is for an open side scrum, when can the opposition scrum half attack the number 10,12 etc, when the ball is lifted at the base of the scrum i assume. what if its a blindside scrum eg next to the touchline, what are the opposition scrum halves options then, if he/she starts next to the scrum half putting the ball in you sometimes see the defending 9 go around to their number 8s feet before the ball is lifted at the base, is that as far as they can go, or are they able to spread out accross the field if they dont go in front of their number 8s feet

[@midsouthchair3188]

We've had this discussion many times in our society on many forums about the legality of this maneuver by the defensive scrum half. Law 19.30 governs offside in this situation, specifically b and c. 19.30b states "Permanently retires to a point on the offside line either at that team’s hindmost foot, or" 19.30c "Permanently retires at least five metres behind the hindmost foot." The issue is over the wording of 'point' versus "at least" 19.30b states "a point", which is different wording than 19.30c which states "Permanently retires five metres behind the hindmost foot." What if the scrum half is not at a 'point on the offside line', rather they are 2 meters behind the hindmost foot? 3 metres? 1/2 metre? 1 inch? By law, if the defensive scrum half deviates from that specific 'point', either in front or behind, then the 19.30c seems to be in order, therefore the scrum half needs to .."retire at least five metres..." Not to be pedantic, but what if the scrum moves backwards, and the defensive scrum half is a little slow to retreat and is now in front of the point of the hindmost foot? Should he need to retreat via 19.30c and join the rest of the backs? In my opinion, the wording needs to be clarified if indeed we want to allow defensive scrum halves to be closer than the traditional 5 meter gap that was created in order to give the offense more space in which to operate. It can be very destructive to allow that gap to be penetrated, and I have seen this in U19 where the defensive team places their best tackler at scrum half and give them a 5 meter head start towards the offensive backs. Thoughts? (constructive please)

[@drzoidberg1]

Because a scrum in this instance is quite static, the defensive scrum-half needs to pick where amongst the 3 areas they want to be according to 30ab or c. The fist part of 30 is "once play in the scrum begins..." so this is their positioning after the put-in. 30b is a fixed point on the offside line. If the offside line moves back, but the defensive scrum-half does not move back with it, they are no longer on a point on the offside line, they are offside. To answer your question then, the scrum-half has chosen 30b at the start of the scrum. Then if the scrum-half is too slow to move back when their pack and hindmost foot is moving back, the scrum-half is offside and needs to move back to at least a point on the offside line, being the hindmost foot. The words "permanently" implies once the positions of 30a, b or c have been selected, they cannot change their minds and move to one of the other two, although presumably, if you have selected 30b initially then move 5m back to effectively be 30c I don't seen any sanctions being imposed. The bigger issue is when would one use this law for a defensive advantage? The attacking scrum-half would know there is no defensive scrum-half in the normal position, so will tell their back-row, pick and go and would have the blindside all to themselves or create a 2v1 with a supporting back-rower. This is an odd position for a defensive scrum-half to be in. Not sure what situation would warrant this, but if there is one it is very specific.

[@Dubsmonkeyman14]

5m for a scrum, 10 for a line out I thought. So he cant be 5m in front of his teammates.

[@seamusbannon9162]

​@drzoidberg1 when attack has scrum with no blind option. Also defence Flanker and winger would be there

[@chasingcarepodcast]

Is this still a thing @Wayne re the scrum half being able to shift across?

[@drzoidberg1]

I don't think putting pressure on 10 or adding to the defensive line is worth the risk of not being able to defend against the offensive scrum-half on a pick and go or creating a 2v1 with a supporting back-row player. What situation would warrant this decision?