SDG

[@pitushi]

An entire design team broke away from Metcal some time ago and created their own brand.

[@acoustic61]

I've read that but never seen evidence of it. ThermalTronics web site doesn't have much information. And haven't bee able to find a corporate phone number? They don't respond to emails.

[@FlyingShotsman]

Thanks, Steve. Excellent review, as always. I was amused to hear you mention my only three complaints with my old Metcal PS2E-01 stations. The mains transformer is always on (and it makes an audible hum; doubly annoying with two of them on my bench); the handpiece cradles have no magnets in them, so when I forget to turn a station off, the tip gets cooked; and, it latches in a fault condition if you remove a cartridge, so you can't hot-swap them and must power-cycle the units. I overcame the transformer hum by building a remote-controlled switch box that the units are plugged into. It looks like I should have just opened them up and re-wired them!

[@sdgelectronics]

We used the old PS2E and old MX systems at work for a long time. People left them on over the weekend burning out the tips all the time 😂🔥

[@HEPATCA]

On the older Metcal MX-500P having the power switch on the secondary side of the transformer is kinda weird. The high voltage DC rail (~53V) is always energized when plugged in. The switch just turns off the lower voltage DC rail (~26V). Does anyone have any idea why they would do such a thing?

[@AltiumatFermilab]

Currently in the US the Thermaltronics 9000 station can be found new for about $420 while the Metcal MX-500S station is about $640. Also note that the smaller 470kHz Thermaltronics unit TMT2000 can be found for $200 new, with used stations occasionally showing up on eBay for as little as $50. If going with the cheaper TMT2000 series I recommend the P series tips as they are quite tiny, almost as tiny as the 13MHz tips shown here.

[@jaro6985]

Power plus tips supposedly have larger heaters and more copper mass (easybraid also did them). I tried one of the thermaltronics ones, very slow response, maybe a bad tip geometry though. You said in the MX-H6-HTD (red handle) review you'd try the metcal power plus cartridge in the regular handle, let us know when you get time, thank you.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

I find the Thermaltronics tips to be better than the Metcal equivalents - Better life and in some cases better geometry - e.g.M7DS525 has sharper edges than SMTC047 - good for reflowing DFNs as it gets right into the corner between PCB and package. I'm told Thermaltronics was started by some ex Metcal people.

[@sdgelectronics]

Yeah I remember most of your tips looked like they were Thermaltronics ones. I heard similar about the origins, but I'm not sure how they got around patent issues

[@elpolaco7654]

Metcal soldering equipment have been on the market for so long that the patents have expired quite a while ago. Most of them date back to the 1980s.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

@@sdgelectronics Metcals main patent had expired - they've been around for a long time - I had one over 25 years ago

[@sdgelectronics]

@@mikeselectricstuff I thought I saw some more recent filings around the digital power meter, but it must have been some specific implementation.

[@Runco990]

I've been using an MX-500 for ever. But I do prefer the Thermaltronix Tips. They do seem to last longer. I have had several Metcal tips spontaneously die. I also love the colored band to I.D. the temperature range. Seems so obvious to do.

[@jaro6985]

yeah worth it for the color band alone.

[@acoustic61]

Users in a couple forums commented that Thermaltronics tips don't last as long. Not sure if it's true or not.

[@Runco990]

@@acoustic61 Maybe it's a toss up.

[@acoustic61]

@@Runco990Judging by this review, Thermaltronics seems to be lower quality. No reason to believe the tips are better. I haven't been able to figure out where the company is based. There's no phone number listed on their website. They don't respond to emails. Definitely doesn't seem like something I would purchase for a production environment.

[@Runco990]

@@acoustic61 I admit I was disappointed when watching this review. It seems Thermaltronics started out well, but this station clearly shows slipping quality. My original MX500 is doing just fine and so are the tips. The one's from Metcal that failed often for me are the DE-soldering one's. I have not needed to buy new tips in a few years, so maybe things changed for the worse.... Will see next time I buy some.

[@acoustic61]

Thanks for reviewing this. I wondered about Thermaltronics quality. IMO, buying used Metcal power units may make better sense for hobbyists. I bought three early Metcal MX-500P-11 power units for under $100 US each. I had to repair two of them because one surplus dealer lied about the condition. They weren't real difficult to repair. They use off-the-shelf parts which are mostly still available. And schematic diagram is also available.

[@jaro6985]

Yeah used units are commonly available and way cheaper. Buying new metcal makes no sense as a hobbyist.

[@scorcher617]

I just bought a used mx-500 p11 I love it think used is a good option now I"m looking for more got the Metcal bug

[@acoustic61]

@@scorcher617 Yeah I was watching too many reviews and now have half a dozen various soldering stations. Metcal performance is impressive. MX-500-P11 is built like a brick dunny. Seems like it'll last forever. I actually used one Metcal station to repair the other two with dental precision.

[@jaro6985]

@@scorcher617 nice, you can pair it with hakko handle or tweezers as well if you want more options.

[@scorcher617]

@@jaro6985 I didn't know this thanks

[@bfx8185]

I have my Thermaltronics TMT9000S for more than 10years and it's my workhorse. Hundreds of pcb's soldered with original tips bought at the beginning and no problem at all.

[@AltiumatFermilab]

We have a few Metcal power units here at the lab that have firmware that detects the Thermaltronics tips and refuses to power on. Early Thermaltronics 13MHz tips were faster to heat up and the Metcal firmware tried to detect that to discourage using "aftermarket" tips. Overall I think Thermaltronics quality is on par with Metcal and is a good value.

[@ivanr5315]

I find the metcal range rather confusing. I have a MX500s station and decided to upgrade the hand piece to the MX-H1-AV but I found an unexpected behaviour when looking at the powered delivered from the station. Using the STTC137P tip I have seen that the stock iron (MX-RM3E) is much faster to go up to temperature. It also uses the entire 40W that the station can deliver whilst heating up. The MX-H1-AV, even if is a nicer iron from an aesthetic and an ergonomic perspective takes reasonably longer to heat up and seems to be much slower in responding to heat demands. It would be nice if a video was made investigating differences between different metcal RF stations and hand pieces. Little info is provided on this topic.

[@sdgelectronics]

Word from Metcal is the two handpieces should behave the same, except perhaps slight component tolerance or some ageing effects of the passives that are in the handpiece.

[@ivanr5315]

@@sdgelectronics Thanks for the answer. Both handpieces are new…1 sec difference in heat-up time… that is not too different in fairness

[@acoustic61]

Interesting. I only have a couple MX-RM3E handpieces that came with the MX-500-P11 which I bought used. I thought about getting a new aluminum handpiece because it looks cool and I wanted the sleep stand. Any idea how I can turn the RM3E stand into a sleep stand? Which type and shape of magents are used and their location relative to the tip?

[@ianhaylock7409]

Copying the idea from thermaltronics you could put a ring of different coloured heat shrink tubing around your Metcal tips to make identifying the power rating of them easier.

[@kiril3166]

In Australia the difference in price between the two units is about $600AUD. Furthermore Thermaltronics have a local representative that provides support and a 4 year warranty on the power supply. The tips are also at least ~1/2 price. I've owned my TMT9000S for just under 1 year now; soldered thousands of leadfree through-hole joints without issue - with pleasure. I've also purchased a few specialty Metcal tips and had no compatibility issues; actually thermal recovery seems to be slightly better.

[@jampskan5690]

what are your favorite/most used Metcal cartridge tips?

[@dusanmilojevic3017]

Japan Goot RX-822AS,RX-852AS,Den-on SS 8400 soldering stations.

[@jaakkolehto1487]

Literally bought a tmt2000 two days ago

[@emtakarohidemty4405]

I am an electronics hobbyist . I need a medium budget soldering station that has a good thermal capacity and supports all the JBC hand pieces too including the t245, t210 and t115 hand pieces. I also need a temperature range from 50 degrees Celsius to 500 degrees Celsius. The station should be dual handle supported and should be able to operate both hand pieces together independently. Both sides should be able to deliver maximum 300 watts.The tips should be cartridge style too. Can you give me some recommendations about this.

[@kissingfrogs]

Great review as always. Thanks for sharing. Is that noised induced into the temperature sensor board @19:37. I assume the MX5200 tip was removed at ~T=34S. The others seem less noisy. What are the actual temperature sensors ... LM35s perhaps.

[@sdgelectronics]

I accidentally cut that narration out. It appears to be electrical noise since the frequency is too high for real thermal events. The probe set-up wasn't optimal, but I didn't investigate further. The sensors are TC1047A

[@edmoore7523]

This is a direct cross to the Metcal MX-500.

[@acoustic61]

I've read comments in forums that Thermaltronics tip cartridges don't last as long as Metcal. I'd like to see a real comparison.

[@pestenpesten7332]

Hi Steve! I was wondering if you could take a few hires images of the main RF PCB - both top and bot would be interesting.

[@radman999]

Damn, I want this

[@ShresthAgrawal-l1r]

Please make a video on MX-500

[@gamerpaddy]

how about hooking up a antenna and using the handpiece wirelessly blasting out 13.5 mhz at whatever watts its using makes a fcc employee appear behind you out of nowhere and giving you a slap in the neck joking aside, whats the advantage of rf heating over a plain resistor.. latter is 100% efficient

[@jaro6985]

RF heating means zero overshoot. You also get fairly even heating throughout the whole curie slug.

[@acoustic61]

@@jaro6985 I've never experienced anything that works as well as Metcal.

[@VytautasValaitis]

Can you simply change the transformer taps of MX500, and switch the USA version to be used with 230V?

[@sdgelectronics]

The MX500P that I featured here has a SMPSU as far as I know. The older MX500 with the din connector had a proper transformer

[@xzxzt4]

its cheaper almost same performance... lcd is dim ...the high wattage tips is great for big componet that a plus

[@ivanr5315]

Just to add to the discussion, I understand that the mx5200 is indeed a more powerful station at 80W output but this only useful when using 2 handpieces concurrently. The MX-500 and the TMT9000S are a 40W output because only one of the two outputs is active so plenty in most cases. Ultimately the cartridge is the same for both the MX-5200 and the MX-500 so that will determine how much power can be dumped by the cartridge.

[@jaro6985]

Nope, you can use 80W output on a single channel on the mx5200. Then you can switch to a 40W/40W mode if you want as well.

[@ivanr5315]

​@@jaro6985hi there, I looked into this a little more. It turns out that my previous statement is immacurate. My understanding now is that the MX5200 station is capable of delivering 80W in a single channel but to do so a high thermal demand handset and tip is required. I only have a MX-500 so cannot test the 80W claim but video #226 goes some way to explain this

[@jaro6985]

@@ivanr5315 the normal tips I used will take 80W without an issue, you dont need the special tips. The special tips probably just last longer when driven hard, and have that big copper slug to act as a thermal tank.

[@ivanr5315]

​@@jaro6985 Ok, thanks. So I cannot explain the last test in this video @19:02 that shows an identical soldering temperature profile (meaning that the same energy is being delivered over a long period) when soldering a big thermal sink for the MX500 VS the MX-5200. Still remains a mystery...can you explain it?

[@jaro6985]

@@ivanr5315 Sure, either the station is in the wrong mode (unlikely), or the thermal transfer is limited by the tip geometry. If you have a very small tip (1mm wide) it doesnt matter if your power supply is 20W or 200W when you can only transfer 10W through that tip into the PCB. But you bring up a good point, that its worth looking into the data and possibly tweaking the test setup if its not loading the station enough. I've verified power consumption on the PS5200 and PS5000.

[@faridya1893]

What country is Metcal brand made in?

[@markwroblewski6500]

China.

[@LackofFaithify]

I just did all of this comparison between the brands last week and the prices you paid must be very different than what we have in the US. There is still a good $200 spread between a TMT9000S and the lowest cost Metcal MX500. Ended up finding a used MX5200 cheaper than the Thermaltronics so went with that, but if the price between mx500 and tmt9000s is only 5-10 pounds difference, that is an impressive spread in price based on market region.

[@sdgelectronics]

There used to be about £140 difference, but that disappeared last year. Fortunately I got this one at the original price, but they increased it after my order.

[@Remote-Key-Repair]

Hi what would you say would be the absolute best soldering iron money no object... I fix car keys am currently using jbc c210

[@brianwood5220]

Great video Steve, but the Thermaltronics TMT9000S is a poor product all round. Personally I wouldn't even consider it at it's price point. Thanks for sharing.

[@sahapholpasaja5410]

Excellent review, but obsolete soldering station.

[@JamesJiang-iz6in]

Thermaltronics is a terrible replica, with poor internal workmanship that looks like it was produced by a small factory. Its tip lifespan is not as good as metric. Even if the price deviates, I will not consider Thermaltronics.