Seaboard Central - Distributed Power Operations

[@oubrioko]

Very nice roof and lower side weathering on your SC boxcars and on the ACF covered hoppers 👍🏿

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks!

[@pm8302]

I love it Tim! Especially explaining putting up the fence. When I was at the KCS I’d have 2 on the headend, 2 in the middle, 1 or possibly 2 on the rear of a loaded Texas Utility Coal Train. I’d be running 3 separate sets of power on one train with the fence up. Please keep the videos coming!

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks! I appreciate it. That’s a big train. I’ve only operated a train set up like that with a unit in the middle and on the rear on the simulator

[@mkhgn744]

Tim, thank you so much for explaining how 1/1 scale trains operate using 1/87 scale trains!!! This is an invaluable lesson coming from someone who actually does the job. NS should be proud of you. You are an ambassador of good will. Bravo!!!!

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it.

[@JerryHurt-w3f]

Something I may have missed, does the DPU have an empty cab or how does it become part of the train? I’m an old guy who grew up in a Frisco division point and familiar with hill engines but still hearing the modern way. Thanks for another good lesson.

[@SeaboardCentral]

@@JerryHurt-w3fthe cab is the same. Has the same controls as any other unit. It is just unmanned when it is running in DP. These trains are built in major classification yards. The mechanical department will set up the DP unit to be linked to the lead unit. Then it is just a matter of switching it to the right position in the train. This can be done by temporarily placing it in set-out mode.

[@theCLEcyclist]

oh my gosh this has to be one of the BEST videos you have ever done!!! I could see the slack out of the couplers further down the train after you slowed down approaching the top of the helix. Watching a professional work - second to none experience!!

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks! I really appreciate it.

[@ronhart4166]

As a hobbiest only. I have learned so much from your channel !!! As always thanks for sharing 👊

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks! I appreciate it

[@mkhgn744]

And your model railroad is simply amazing!!!!

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thank you! I really appreciate it!

[@PrinceStreet]

Really cool to learn about synchronous/asynchronous modes at 10:14 I never realised this was a thing but it sure makes sense.

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks!

[@deanpurcell7771]

I actually enjoyed running trains with the remote on the tail end as there was NO slack! But I always preferred a train with a consist of SD 40s on the head end, more fun to run!!

[@SeaboardCentral]

I agree. Love those SD40-2s!

[@TheGulfwind]

Excellent description of Distributed power operations! Did not know BOUT THE asynchronous method of control. Great demonstration of the methods.

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks!

[@edwardstd52]

Nice work handling the power on both ends, especially considering you were coming up on the end-of-track! Good explanation as well...

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks!

[@invertd007]

I am just a rail-fan but I have learned so much watching your channel!

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks! Glad you like it

[@bbrailroad6284]

Great information and a great Ops session as always.

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks!

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks!

[@tracksidemike]

Great example of using a DPU we run some DPU unit when we run 80 cars pulling thanks for share awesome video 😎🚂🫵Have a great day

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks! I appreciate it!

[@jkl12397]

Great Video! The SD80MAC's were not equipped for DP operation. One of their last hold outs in South Fork, PA always had a second engineer until the MACs left. After the 80MACs left NS, so did the permanent second engineer job at South Fork; now using DP equipped SD70ACu's.

[@SeaboardCentral]

That is interesting. I thought they did. Only ran one once. Most powerful unit I ever ran.

[@jkl12397]

@SeaboardCentral they sure were monsters, we ran 5-6 of them on a train in south fork

[@rjl110919581]

THANK YOU FOR OTHER GREAT DETAIL VIDEO

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks for watching!

[@David-yo5re]

Great video. I always wondered how Distributed Power was controlled.

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks!

[@houseofrandomness]

Some great information in this video!! I was unaware that only certain equipped engines could be placed in dpu.

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks! Glad to help

[@arvinmccarty587]

This video has gotten me wondering now if the engineer of a prototype train with DPU's has any independent control over the DPU's in the train? As always, your videos, IMHO, are the best ones on KZbin for modelers wishing to employ realistic prototype operations and practices! Thanks!

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks! Hopefully I answered some questions for you

[@obxbill01]

this was very informative for me. I was wondering how those units work. Cheers!

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks! Glad to help

[@RFMCabooseNP1713]

Very interesting. Very informative video.

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks!

[@CentralVirginiaRailProductions]

Nice video Tim!

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks!

[@williamdavid9333]

Great video, thanks for sharing.

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks for watching!

[@gp3829]

Hi Tim, that was interesting to watch and learn from, thank you. One Safety Feature I have always attributed to DPO is that the DPU/Rear Helper can also help to take the strain off and prevent breakage of the forwardmost Rollingstock Couplers, where there is the full weight of the Train behind, to allow for. I don't know if I am correct in my understanding of this?

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks! Yes you are right. The point of DPU operation is for longer trains. A long train, especially with empty cars mixed with loads can cause situations where you could experience a knuckle separation or a derailment in extreme cases where there is excessive buff or draft forces.

[@philstead8756]

Tim, Love your railroad. Any thought of adding a third mainline passing siding between Carrolton and Newnan across the aisle from the Chattahoochie River scene ?

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks! No, my layout represents a secondary mainline. Not a lot of traffic to justify it.

[@garynugent4400]

WOW! AWESOME !!!! - Gary

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks Gary

[@markusmattern7157]

Hello Tim, thanks for another great video. Very interesting. I never thought about controlling the units like you did in the video. One question: your locomotives are some kind of speed matched, aren’t they? I think the locomotives must have a similar speed configuration or characteristics to avoid derailment? Thanks for all these great videos

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks! Yes, they are speed matched. I have a video on the channel where I show how I have my engines programmed to run like the real thing.

[@jeffmurphree2937]

Very nice video! Well explained. The weathered freight cars are really nice as well. Have you done a video on how you weathered them?

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks! Yes, I have some videos on the channel on how to weather cars and locomotives

[@davidbrown4823]

Manned or unmanned DPU is something else but in HO its wow.

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks! Yes any unit can become a manned pusher unit but only certain units are DP capable with the electronics to perform DP operation.

[@PennCentral99]

hey Tim, nice explanation and visual perspective. One would think the asynchronous mode would be better for the downhill trek as gravity would want to push the cars together, upper loco slightly less speed to keep the slack out. But, I'm not a locomotive engineer, so I wouldn't know. None the less, nice demonstration. Thanks, Terry

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks! They are pretty much always set up in Asynchronous mode now. The DP is just there for power

[@danielranck0520]

Go Braves!

[@SeaboardCentral]

😁👍🏻👍🏻

[@thomasdecker7631]

Excellent video. If I understand it right, synchronous mode is like MU except the units are separated?

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks! Yes, it just involves transmitting the communication via radio frequency from the lead unit to the DP unit. Typically there is a slight delay.

[@jimnicholas7666]

Great video and explanation. Curious as to why NS no longer using the SD80 MACs?

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks! They sold them off probably due to their expense to operate

[@PrinceStreet]

If head-end or the DPU was more than one engine (say 2+2+1) would all engines need the DPU software/hardware installed? Does each engine talk 1:1 to each other engine or do groups of engines talk to the other groups in that train? For example: Even though none of the SC engines have DPU could you have MU’d one into mid-train and it be controlled by the UP GE that was software-equipped and working as DPU? This is so cool to learn about. I love these videos.

[@SeaboardCentral]

The only units that have to have the DP software are the Lead locomotive and then a receiver locomotive. The other locomotives can be MU’d just like any other locomotive. So you can have a non DP unit mu’d to the lead and a non-DP unit Mu’d to the receiver

[@stevenallen9613]

Thanks Tim, that video certainly gave me a much better understanding of the DP operation. I'm curious about that NS list you showed as an example. It appeared to me that almost all of the DP equipped units were AC. Is there an advantage for equipping those units with DP vs the other units? Also, when using foreign power does NS have a complete roster listing of other roads power units and which are or aren't equipped with DP capabilities, or is there some indication in the cab or on the cab siding that will indicate the units capabilities? Once again, thanks for your awesome video description of the SC and prototypical operations. Steve

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks Steve. Yes, most of the AC units are the newer units. NS was slower in adopting DP operations so a lot of the older DC models didn’t come equipped with it. I’m sure mechanical has a list of foreign power DPU equipped units but it can be found in the computer screens.

[@stevenallen9613]

Tim, As a follow up, I first became aware of mid and end train operations at the end of the 80's. I was assigned to work storm damage in Charlotte, NC, for 2 months after the devastation of Hurricane Hugo. I occasionally got to do some limited train warching at times. I saw mostly Southern trains at the time (I don't remember when SOU and NW formally merged) running with both mid train and pusher service. Am I to assume at this time, those power units were manned. Of the 3 consists I seem to remember with mid train and pushet service, the mid train units were SOU GP30's. I think on 2 of those consists I saw NW high hood units in the lead, just not clear if they were running long hood forward. Thanks, Steve

[@John-cg8hb]

Rear dp units don't require separating the train and can be cut off on the fly. Saves alot of time.

[@SeaboardCentral]

You are thinking of manned pusher units. A DPU is an unmanned unit that is controlled by the lead locomotive.

[@Oregonrailfan]

3:01 I don't know about all UP sd70m's, but I have seen many of them as dpu's.

[@SeaboardCentral]

They can be MU’d to another unit that is capable of DP operation. This is what NS does with the remaining Dash 9s. They will MU them to a unit that is capable of DP either on the headend or back in the train like 2 on the front and 2 in the middle.

[@Oregonrailfan]

​@SeaboardCentral oh that makes sense.

[@mhbpodnk]

Nice operational video always wondered how that works plus does still work the same when you have more than one dpu I’ve seen them with two in the middle and one on the rear or there would be two or three units on the rear pushing

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks! Yes, you can have two in the middle and one on the end. Works the same

[@JohnB9474]

Tim a question on the helix. Since an uphill grade poses significant drag on a train wouldn't it be better to run the uphill direction on the larger, outside radius track. Seems like that would be a bit less strain.

[@SeaboardCentral]

I don’t think it really matters because there is not that much difference in the radius of both tracks. Where you would have a problem is if you had a really light car near the front and a block of heavy cars on the rear. The DP on the rear helps to keep strain of the weight of the train to a minimum.

[@rogerthomas9017]

Presume you first speed-matched the two units. Can you also use Drive Hold in synchronous DPU operations? Also curious as to what other foreign power you have on the SC besides the NS units and this UP. When you finish the track connection to Ragland, you should have enough room to have the DPU in the middle of a longer train. Any thought on getting an NS ET44?

[@SeaboardCentral]

Yes, I speed match my units and I have a video on the channel to show how I program them with the ProtoThrottle. For example, Notch 1 = 2.5 mph, Notch 2 = 5 mph, Notch 3 = 8 mph, Notch 4 = 10 mph, Notch 5 = 12 mph, Notch 6 = 14 mph, Notch 7 = 16 mph and Notch 8 = 18 mph. I use an Accutrack 2 speedometer to verify the speed. Other than NS units the only other foreign power is the UP unit. I thought about getting a KCS SD70ACe at some point but I need to sell off something else first. No go on the ET44AC since it is out of my time period. I model 2015 and those really didn’t start showing up until 2016.

[@rogerthomas9017]

@@SeaboardCentral I jump my PT notches somewhat more than you do, since trains sometimes travel on a CTC main before reaching their Industrial Switching District, but my Notch 1 is only about 1 mph - which is my coupling speed. Love to ease those knuckles together without moving the car.

[@ElizabethMashburn-i4e]

Tim is the 8500 ft restriction system wide or is it a territorial thing on the NS? Before i retired in 2012 i ran some DP and most were over 12000 ft on the CSX. Joe

[@SeaboardCentral]

The restriction is that the DP unit has to be within 8,500 feet from the lead locomotive. The train can be 12,000 feet just means the DP can’t be on the rear because of signal loss.

[@ronaldrondeau7870]

Great, We know that we can set 2 engine in a consist but will it work the same if one in front and the other in trainling unit will work the same

[@SeaboardCentral]

I’m not sure what you are asking?

[@ronaldrondeau7870]

@@SeaboardCentral ok on your layout you have 2 engines running together but if you put if you split them one in front and the other on the end of the train will they run the same way

[@SeaboardCentral]

@@ronaldrondeau7870yes, they will run the same because I have them speed matched. So when I was running them in synchronized mode I just put them in a consist and even though they had 20 cars in between them they ran just as if they were coupled together

[@ronaldrondeau7870]

@@SeaboardCentral thanks

[@154Colin]

I would imagine you don't put the rear unit - when it's going down grade - is because it puts too much drag. There's probably more to it though. ---------------------- That was interesting. ----------------- BTW. What's the criteria for selecting a unit for DPU Service? Does that factor in on HP and the various levels of dynamic braking?

[@SeaboardCentral]

As far as I know all newer AC units come equipped with it as a standard feature. It was an option on the older DC units when it first came out. The DP unit can be anywhere as long as it is not more than 8,500 feet from the lead locomotive due to a loss of communication signal. I have operated trains with the DP pushing upgrade while the lead unit is in Dynamic Brake going downgrade. Dynamic braking is not really a factor in DP operations. The main goal is to modulate the slack in the train and avoid excessive run ins and run outs.

[@154Colin]

@@SeaboardCentral Thank you Tim

[@luizparana43]

Double Controls?

[@SeaboardCentral]

Yes, for DPU operation you can control the DP unit separate from the lead

[@luizparana43]

@@SeaboardCentral great job Nice operation Thanks For Brazil

[@kevinbohnenblust5844]

Very cool! I always appreciate the information and insights you share. Many thanks!

[@25mfd]

good vid... interesting you do a vid on DPUs... just watched a YT vid of a radio recording between a CSX dispatcher and an engr... a big argument between these two ensued over the dispatcher telling the engr to walk back 101 cars to check the status of his DPU that took a crap on him... kzbin.info/www/bejne/laXKdZePe82Yjqc i've advocated for the carriers putting a man in the DPU IF the train is over XXX carlengths (to be determined by the carrier/union)... obviously that ain't happening though so what's NS procedure for if the DPU has a issue and you can't walk back to check it out?

[@SeaboardCentral]

Thanks! Normally they will have mechanical en route as soon as there is a problem like that but often if there is another train crew or Trainmaster nearby they will check it out.