Searching for Fallen Angels' Lost Lens

[@yoyozhong84]

Fallen Angels and Chungking Express are sister films made fairly fast during/after the filming of Ashes of Time. One thing that I particularly remember is that a critic describes the use of wide lens in Fallen Angels and the use of long lens in Chungking Express, Fallen Angels is about “close but far” and Chungking Express is about “far but close”.

[@nzvplc]

makes so much sense!

[@Gma7788]

Yeah they didn't put any effort into promoting a tiny budget, tiny film stock product that was going to fail in a week's time and never make it. If the original audience has almost completely forgotten the movie 🎬, the characters, the actors etc...somethings wrong.

[@akre-zn8yk]

The part where the guy enters the restaurant, smoking a cigarette and in slow motion. Is it filmed with the same lens size?

[@joelbastin2389]

Nope like the video suggests it's probably shot on a telephoto lens.

[@joelbastin2389]

​@@akre-zn8yk....

[@ColinChick]

This was randomly thrown at me by KZbin, from someone i don't know, about a film I've never heard of. And yet it had me engrossed the entire almost 20 minutes. Not just awesome sluthing, but such a well presented , fascinating narrative. Thank you.

[@nzvplc]

definitely watch the film (and its predecessor chungking express)

[@tccandler]

This video is better than most multi-million dollar Netflix documentaries. Nice work!

[@emmanuelebenedini3700]

True awesome reseaech

[@RAN480L64]

If you look closely at the shots, especially while panning, you can see two different distortion patterns intersecting, a normal rectilinear distortion in the center and a slight barrel or fisheye effect at the edges, very indicative of a converter at least on non-zoom lenses

[@BracaPhoto]

Have we considered a screw on wide angle adapter ?? There's a macro photographer i watch and he's built a few custom lenses --- i would love to hear his input Or a YTer called Hyugen Optics - he's a lens wizard

[@BracaPhoto]

Or a 180 degree fisheye meant for Medium format ?? Cropped on the 35mm frame ?

[@sternschnupper]

@@BracaPhoto thats something i was also thinking about. or a fisheye for 35mm photography, which would also mean a crop on 35mm movies: the size of the image on the film is 36x24mm for photography, but only 22x16mm for movies.

[@jiefuti]

so would you think it's safe to say the ultra wide shots in the film that don't have tons of barrel distoration are just the kinoptik 9.8mm without the adaptor and then the ones with obvious barrel distoration (like the famous shot of the agent eating noodles at the end) is with adaptor on?

[@RAN480L64]

@@jiefuti That could be the secret they do not even speak of in the interview, or did not remember as clearly on the spot when that was taken/given, the article that proves the connection to the kinoptik, good idea, I just thought I was being pretentious and re-explaining what was already said, but I think yes, there is an element of shooting without it and just cropping any frame the image circle didn't fill, or perhaps the kinoptik had a large image circle for safety against future large formats, which was common in designs around and post-70mm / todd AO / VistaVision / scope and all the others that didn't last, like used even in star wars '77, the converter needed for anamorphic on the old cameras, and that went in FRONT of the shooting lens, which was very tricky to shade without a full black wrap from flare, especially in the sun I Imagine, as it is an open-body alignment, which is most uncommon outside of perhaps geared-large format where the elements of lens and film plane are more organically and without touching or external security barrel and only a fragile baffle for the image cone, but if it was good enough for the aristocrats taking photos for engraving reference and eventually photo duplication, so its not a bad limitation to have/place on oneself

[@darshanasanjay832]

this really reminded me why crediting is important

[@iwouldprefernotto4381]

This is exactly what I come to KZbin for: a supremely deep dive on a specialist topic by someone who really knows their stuff…and yet still manages to be entertaining. Excellent gear hunting!

[@HarryBaileyShow]

Hey just letting you know I just credited this video in a brief review I did on the film, as this video is incredible.

[@WatchingtheAerial]

Always cool to see new people dipping into Hong Kong cinema, thanks!

[@donniblackstar]

This is one of my favorite videos ever, such an obscure topic on a kinda obscure movie. This why KZbin was made, this is the internet or whatever.

[@thecorruptversion]

I'd love to know who determines what youtube was made for.

[@urlittlewindmill]

Wow, this video is so good. Love seeing fallen angels being talked about on this platform especially about the lens too.

[@donald55482]

Crazy stuff. I'm very glad I subscribed even though you haven't uploaded in 2 years. Keep your own pace and as long as the videos are always this consistently good, I'll keep watching.

[@LiottaSeoul]

Dude! Every couple of years I try to find this out. Today was one of those days! Thanks SO much! This is a huge itch I've had in my head ever so often and you stopped that itch! Awesome!

[@The-KP]

A measure of how rare such lenses are, Nikon's 6mm f/2.8 fisheye Nikkor sold at auction for US$145,000 a few years ago. Great video, well researched.

[@boneiy]

I love how to the point and well-edited this vid is, while not sacrificing any detail to achieve it. I really hope you do keep making more, your work's great.

[@yannmo5581]

awesome video and found! I was lucky to be on set with doyle on Underwater Love. It was a life changing experience to see him preparing his shots few minute before (mostly focusing on color atmosphere and accesoiries), and just shoot as he feel. Great memory!

[@stephanie3119]

This video is a masterpiece on it's own! I came here right after finishing Fallen Angels for the first time and I am in awe of the movie itself, the neo-noir nostalgic feel that it has, the story and the cinematography.

[@legionnumber1]

Well done, really well done. Finally a film analysis video that isn't pretentious or shallow.

[@atulyabharadwaj2279]

Nerdwriter cough

[@kentjensen4504]

Except he obviously can't tell the differene between a wide angle and telephoto lens.

[@akre-zn8yk]

The part where the guy enters the restaurant, smoking a cigarette and in slow motion. Is it filmed with the same lens size?

[@actionjackson999]

I finally watched Fallen Angels for the first time last night, and had been saving this video for when I did. Incredible research and video explaining how this masterpiece was shot!

[@AskRobbyG]

The ultrawide lens is quickly felt in Fallen Angels. The cinematography is outstanding in this film.

[@choochootraiin]

Fallen Angels is one of my favourite movie ever in both its unique aesthetics and story. I thought that this movie would have been forgotten long time ago and super happy that people still talk about these days. Thank you for the amazing video!

[@xvs_s]

The super wide attachment would've been my second guess if there was no standalone super wide-angle lens for 35mm use. At that time these attachments were quite popular. Lens manufacturers even produced these attachments for lenses used in 8mm and 16mm format. I've had a Schneider super wide angle which is extremely useful as it not just looks cool but in that range DoF range extends greatly. At large f-stops you don't really have to worry about missing focus, so after a certain aperture it works like a zone focus lens. I guess around T2/2.8 infinity focus is achieved from around 1 meters. Have you tried contacting Doyle himself? It would be nice to hear his answer.

[@retrothing]

Brilliant! Thanks for not jumping to lazy conclusions. I deeply appreciate that you put in the work to figure this out so thoroughly. Thank you!

[@sebbymeister]

Oh my god, you're just crazy. I LOVE your research. Great job. Thank you!

[@tylerdai1413]

I know it's two years too late, but I happen to live pretty close to Doyle in Shanghai, and happened to bump into him couple of times, I will definitely mention your video and hopefully get a confirmation from him if he still remembers

[@WatchingtheAerial]

Absolutely! Who knows what he'll remember, but if you find out anything, I'd love to add it as a note to my research on this.

[@Optykz]

It’s never too late. Please ask him

[@bogdanplakov3572]

Let us know ❤

[@dennisvoid666]

and what happened bro? its been 4 months lol

[@mariasolep4412]

Fallen angels is my fav movie ever and this was so interesting and informative!!! It made me fall in love with the movie all over again, thank u soo much

[@Taeki]

Super interesting find. I have been interested in the background of film art for a long time, but I have never dealt with this topic before and found it very fascinating. I'm looking forward to the next video.

[@冬烏-x4v]

KZbin algorithm finally did a great job. One of the best video on cinema I've seen so far.

[@AdamSchoales]

This has become my absolute favourite filmmaking related channel on KZbin. Keep up the incredible work!

[@swithn]

I love that you linked everything in the description ty.

[@dapp24fps]

I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORTS, I CAN UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH TIME N DEDICATION IT TAKES!!! THANKYOUU!

[@liamwong]

Just so happened to stumble on this after wondering the same thing. Excellent video.

[@heyitsmariabanana]

I love your photos Liam! I'm a fan ❤️

[@liamwong]

@@heyitsmariabanana Thank you so much 🫶

[@mintasyx]

Love your pictures, got your books right by my side, funny stumbling upon my favorite photographer down such a niche video, I love it :D have a good one and thank you for sharing your art. Thanks @watchingtheaerial for such a detailed video ~

[@call_me_maple]

WatchingtheAerial... Now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time. Glad to see you're still doing content. I subbed after I saw the Matrix vid. Also, great job with the research, I gotta watch Fallen Angels now.

[@bloodswarms]

Well, this is a banger that I've watched more than once. Love how thorough you are. Great work.

[@uqbar42]

And THIS is the proper research I wanted for a small project (and a bet) I'm attached ath the moment. Dude, you are an epic reseacher.

[@Merwanmusique]

thanks you so much man , one of my favorite investigation video

[@danielsanichiban]

Funny thing. As soon as this video started, I thought this looks exactly like the Kinoptik that Kubrick used in Clockwork Orange, since I went to lengths to find out what that was 20 years ago, and it has such distinct distortion and chromatic aberration. Awesome

[@jacobdipietro375]

I dunno why the youtube algorithm recommended this for me, as ive never seen the movie, but thank you. Riveting scene choices, excellent voiceover, and great detective work all wrapped up into a great documentary type video. Thank you for this. Definitely subbed and onto watching some more of your videos

[@_Just_Some1]

I sign below your comment.

[@jacobdipietro375]

@@_Just_Some1 for why?

[@penultimate1]

Excellent documentation of your search! I've never seen the film before but the cinematography featured is lovely. What a bold choice to shoot with such a wide lens.

[@nathansnook]

incredible research. out of all of wkw's films, Fallen Angels has always stuck with me but i had no idea why. it was through these specific camera choices and your research did i realize how special it was. thank you for this!

[@Cloudstrike_]

I had to pause the video to subscribe. This is the hard hitting investigative journalist we need.

[@jetthepanda]

This video popped up on my home page, as a huge Wong Kar Wai fan and budding youtuber / film maker I loved it!

[@loopooillohg]

this deserves more - i think this is a sleeper vid, will keep being shown to people who are at a certain point in the algorithm but never the mainstream algorithm, will constantly keep increasing in views but never explode.

[@natasha2925]

oh my gosh this is amazing.. i’ve learnt more from this video than a whole 3 yrs of media

[@JanD.0310]

Great Video! There is some additional info in the document shown at 13:43, mentioning the unusual aspect ratio which significantly contributes to the look of the movie: "Actually, we wanted to go even further, so we shot it in 1.66 ratio, in order to project it through an anamorphic lens, which is widescreen."

[@panwitt]

this is such an in depth discussion of something so specific. I love this. amazing vid. earned a sub

[@cinemart5281]

Oh my god, this might just be my favorite video on yt! Thanks for the research

[@chungdha]

Think 6.8mm would be way too wide for what I see and around 10mm range is more correct. One thing also is he was able to focus quite close to the subjects and see vignette of diopter filter in some of the shots and 6.8mm would been impossible to add a diopter. Also checking Hong Kong rental houses none of them have the adapter for the 6.8mm. Also Doyle had shot another movie called First Love with Eric Kot which got scenes with similar looks and listed only using Zeiss and Angenieux lenses only. Likely more be Zeiss 10mm and softness could been from an filter instead of that it’s a look from the lens itself as First love have the wide angle but without then softness.

[@shanecampbell288]

6.5mm on a 16mm film camera tho

[@shanecampbell288]

It would crop into about a 12mm or 14.

[@shanecampbell288]

16mm film camera 🎥 I mean

[@shanecampbell288]

Lol just watched the whole video they used 35mm nvm

[@prod.ouilele719]

@@shanecampbell288 yo Im confused , this doesnt look like 6.5 , does he mean 6.5 full frame on 35mm?

[@kngkunaat]

Im at 16:30 and youp, this looks alot like some adapter magic. Love to see im not the only one obsessing about such details. What an excellent video! THX

[@swamphead6578]

Underrated movie & underrated youtube video! This was great, thanks

[@vishnu2407]

Love the soundtrack for this video as much as the subject matter. Always loved that opening theme from The Wild Goose Lake, glad someone else appreciates it and used it in a video about another one of my favorite films

[@WatchingtheAerial]

fun fact, Wild Goose Lake not only rules, it's just obscure enough that it doesn't set off youtube's crazy copyright sensors so i love getting to use music from it. chinese art house films no one else has seen are great for sourcing background music. if you haven't yet, check out Black Coal, Thin Ice and Night Train by the same director, Yi'nan Diao is awesome.

[@TheBlakeEverhart]

It's rare to find something of this quality on KZbin, I'm so glad that I stumbled into this.

[@jaylanjay2494]

Huh how is it rare?

[@jaylanjay2494]

All this great content on KZbin

[@ImitativePhotography]

I have been looking for this video for a long time. Thank you for making it.

[@vortenzi2592]

Really great video; shines some clarity on what makes this film so unique and special, even among WKW's own works. :) Thanks for doing the sleuthing and for sharing it.

[@chiefgarvey11]

This is the best video essay on this website.

[@bennytroung]

Good research

[@bao1964]

"Wait it was the Kinoptik all along? "Always has been."

[@NeonPixels81]

Damn, this is the exact kind of video that KZbin should be for.

[@zerois2801]

as others have stated this kind of content is what highlights the beauty of the internet where people can passionately talk about niche topics

[@sonpois]

Hell yeah! Just discovered this movie the other week after a deep-dive into super-wide photography and layering. Such an influential movie for this look. Thanks for your research

[@donvampa730]

Genuinely had fun watching the video, bravo man, will share this!

[@soufianenajah4746]

Had a blast watching this. Thank you and please keep em coming!

[@dlyon9673]

Thanks so much for sorting this out and the well done video presenting it. The wide angle perspective is an essential critical part of this wonderful film, but like you said, is just one important piece of a number of other fantastic elements. I have to go watch Fallen Angels again immediately!

[@bhris001]

this is one of the best videos I've ever seen, the research and storytelling is so good. cant believe i just found this lol

[@ren-ren-ren-ren-ren]

As soon as you pulled out the 8mm lens on 4:11 I immediately thought "must be with an adapter then" 😅

[@clichyx]

My thought exactly was "They used a Fisheye filter above the Ultra Wide Angle lens", since I did that once in a music video. It turned out to be right. Great video!

[@MediaDivision]

This was very interesting and captivating indeed… nice job. Thanks a lot! I was sucked in deep already, when I suddenly stumbled over my footage from the "legendary cine lenses…" series… which was a bit surreal in this context. Thanks for crediting my work… to many use it without giving credit. Again, nice work. One think I was wondering about: If on attaches a wide angle attachment like the proposed 0.7x the f-number to a T2.3 lens, it should get slower by a stop after conversion (neglecting transmission of the adapter itself). The formula dictates that given the shorter FL. So, we would be talking about T3.3. I am not firm on this … just seems to be logical. I am converting a 55mm f/1.2 lens to a 35mm lens to complete my faux K35 set… I have the same problem there.

[@WatchingtheAerial]

Glad you stumbled across this, and thanks for the kind words! As a big fan of the Contax Zeiss, I loved the video you out together on them - great info and impressive production values. As for effective aperture conversions, I’m not as familiar with them, but from what I’ve gathered, as long as it’s well made, front-attaching wide angle adapters *should* let the same or similar amount of light hit the film at the end of the day. There’s more glass the light has to go through, and it has to focus into a smaller area through the back of the adapter, but that should be balanced out by the larger amount of light it’s capturing with its wider FOV, if I were to hazard a guess. I could absolutely be wrong, though - I’d be really interested to see someone do some tests on cinema-level wide angle adapters and test this exact thing though.

[@MediaDivision]

Thanks a lot… always trying to improve… I think we came a long way since that video. Hmmmm… let's do an armchair experiment. It is absolutely not about how much light the wide angle adapter blocks… let's say transmission loss is (like you say) neglectable in this context The f-number "N" is given by the focal length "f", divided by diameter of the entrance pupil "D": N=f/D If "f" gets smaller and "D" stays the same, "N" will get larger. The entrance pupil doesn't get larger when we attach a wide angel adapter… hence "N" gets larger by the given factor. You can also see it "optically"… the wider a lens is, the smaller an entrance pupil appears to be relative to the real size. The entrance pupils appearance "shrinks" the wider the lens gets, just like it is magnified when on a Tele lens. This is why it gets harder and harder to produce a fast lens, the wider we go. If a wide angle adapter would indeed leave the lens speed unaffected… building wide fast lenses would be trivial by simply using a very fast normal lens as the basis. After I did the wide angle modification with my 55mm aspherical, I will do a T-stop measurement… that should confirm the theory. @@WatchingtheAerial

[@WatchingtheAerial]

I’m really interested to see the final results on that. One of the things I would consider though, is even if it is technically easy to put a wide angle adapter on a fast normal lens to make a super fast wide, the adapters do tend to be more susceptible to all sorts of distortions/flaring/etc. than a well manufactured wide lens by itself. So, while you might be gaining width, you’re having to deal with all sorts of other visual issues. Fine for a movie that already looks wild like Fallen Angels, but maybe not a great fit for everyone.

[@MediaDivision]

Sure… a lens doesn't get "better" by adding a wide angle adapter… neither does it when you use a focal reducer, simply because you ad a stage of beding and potential reflections… still, and like you say…your video right here show the potential of it. G.L. optics seems to be very confident in their process. Who knows, maybe even the original K35 was realized in that fashion… it always seemed a bit strange to me that there was no "photo version" of that lens @@WatchingtheAerial

[@MediaDivision]

⁠@@WatchingtheAerialso….. after showing this video to some lens guys in Chengdu today, I remembered our discussion and “coincidencely” I did the test we where talking about. My “faux” K35 35mm built from a 50 NFD and a wide angle adapter…. And, you where right and my suspicion was wrong. The lens maintains a measured T1.3. I measured myself, no doubt. That of course opens a whole new story… why doesn’t the f/T-number change given the f-number formulas dependence on the focal length?! Even the lens experts here couldn’t answer that. Something I might have to explore. Hope you found that information useful! Best, Nikolas

[@wwjjss33]

Amazing investigative video! 🙏🏼 -I applaud your tenacity and congratulate you on the reward of solving an almost 30yr old mystery That film looks spectacular and I will have to see it at some indie cinema screening someday-I want my first viewing of this to be a big screen experience 👌 Thank You Again 🙏🏼 -You’ve earned a new Subscriber

[@Fishcakebuttie]

What a great upload. I’m here in Hong Kong now starting to experiment filming. This is all absolutely fantastic

[@jeffiot]

from a small channel to another (even though youve surpassed me by a few thousand): quality fucking content here. great job, dude. please keep at it.

[@sigvardbjorkman]

Brilliant man! I have been wondering about this for about a year now and you cracked it! So grateful, many thanks!!!

[@DeanHarringtonimages]

Very well-done closeup of filmmaking. I have a Century Optics wide-angle lens adapter for the DVX-100. I will see how it can be adapted to another mount.

[@robertoshen9335]

Outstanding analysis.

[@ericburdon7208]

Now I can die in peace, thank you man❤️

[@jumbee9]

This is an AMAZING bit of sleuthing man. Great job. And super informative. Gave me some ideas on bits of glass to get for my kit. Thank you!

[@noidz_]

This is probably the best lens documental I ever seen, congratulations, I loved it.

[@eedoamitay3341]

Now THIS was genuinely interesting, great video and story man

[@anniejiajia]

This is so impressive…Thanks for sharing the whole story about the journey 🤩

[@alexfarren-gill1763]

Awesome that you’re back

[@ahoyhere8113]

Just stumbled across this accidentally and so glad I did… while I own (cheap) cine lenses for fun, actual cinematography is not my interest, but you had me on the edge of my seat! Excellent research work, and great job at turning it into a fascinating journey. Now I have to go and watch this movie, which I’d never heard of before.

[@Silmeris]

Oh heck you're back!

[@mitch5am]

I'm utterly stunned about how amazing this is, this research, dude- 🙌

[@merrja]

This is it. This is the good stuff. Lovely, snappy little video - no bloat, nothing. Plus it's about a film I'm a big fan of, so that's a bonus

[@ivandionisio7819]

This investigation is a work of art with nothing similar to any type of clickbait! Congrats, i automátically subscribe. And please keep making content, i am capable of seeing any wong war-kai or any other director analisis that comes from you!

[@SERGEL-96]

It's pretty insane how crisp it looks for a movie from 1995

[@NatKatBaker13]

Yoo, you just got a new subscriber. This is the niche content I’m here for. I wish you posted more often, but I’ll take what I can get. Can’t wait to follow you down your next rabbit hole.

[@smartideas-pedro1690]

So glad I've found your video. You did great man.

[@johncallof8839]

These videos are a treat, even for a neophyte.

[@Naatti922]

Cool cool cool. So I'll be wathcing everything you put out from now on.

[@dobycinema]

Congrats on this blowing up and getting that boost. Awesome video my man.

[@maxim8388]

Your investigation is incredible! Thank you

[@khalilmadovi.]

Bravo. Sensational. The world needs people like you that have love and curiosity for things. Hats off, man.

[@yifu818]

amazing content, sensational great work!!

[@rushjopson962]

great work - so glad to see this answered!

[@alligate9137]

Great commentary and in-depth analysis!

[@202maddy]

Solid Research man! Very insightful, Keep up the good work!! 👍

[@_dusklo]

This is an excellent piece of research that has been presented beautifully! Great work! :)

[@TheRealUnconnected]

Dude awesome video; thank you for putting it together and great editing and narration. You certainly deserve a load more subs and a heap more views and i wish you the best in finding your audience.

[@theJDfromCA]

I appreciate the detective work. I've always been curious, but lack the will power to investigate. Much obliged.

[@Ronaldoisboss]

New to photography, as the mm on the lens gets smaller, does the field of view get exponentially wider? For example, if I changed from 100to95 mm vs 15to10mm, is it a much larger difference aesthetically?

[@jakescott7679]

You should have just asked someone in the film industry as this combination and its use on fallen angels is common knowledge. You can often tell if an adapter or secondary lens has been employed from the resultant highlight bloom where you have ligh being refocussed from one lens to another. But glad you had fun and got to there in the end. 🙏

[@8BitThoughts]

Dude this video is amazing. Good work!