ThinkPad on a Budget: The Core 2 Duo Era

[@andljoy]

The x61s in my opinion is the perfect laptop. A x61s with a low power arm chip a 4:3 OLED USB C dock ability and a HUGE battery for me i would spends 1000s for that.

[@JanJanuszNosacz]

Dear Sebi! I really appreciate your passion for Thinkpads! I love those machines as well and look forward to your every new video. Keep up with good work, pal! I love watching your vids, it's great that you share your knowledge and experience. It surely helped many other Thinkpad fans out there :)

[@beickus]

Still using the T500 here, with 8g ram. I have also a project of repairing a T400 - a very sleek laptop. Love the 16:10 ratio.

[@bbk1357]

Great work! I look forward to the T420/T430 review. Keep the videos coming.

[@Riccardo_Mori]

I really enjoyed this ThinkPad series. It helped me a lot in my search for a suitable ThinkPad - which, as a Mac user, is basically the only Windows PC notebook I really like. Cheers, and keep up the good work!

[@galaxytrio]

So informative and well presented, Sebi. Thanks.

[@mathfisika7027]

i still use old thinkpad...t410 still good until now..thinkpad is the best laptop

[@niamin793]

Recently bought a ThinkPad T520. Really inlove. Very sturdy, looking for excuses to use the keyboard, Intel i5-2540M, 2.6 GHz, 8GB of RAM..just brilliant..for a student on a budget? Awesome. Even runs some older games- Assassin's Creed I and II run like a dream! P.S.: Lovely content overall! Keep up the good work.

[@pekkokuopanportti6859]

Does your one have a FHD display (1920 x 1080), and if so, do you happen to know if it's an IPS panel or not? I have a FHD-display one, but haven't been able to confirm the type of the FHD display offered on this model. Anyway, T520 (along with the even heavier-duty W520) is among the last (and most powerful) of the ThinkPads that still came with the IBM-designed keyboard.

[@MrMartinB55]

Great video's, I worked with A20p, T60, T61, T430. Thinkpads are the best!

[@BensBoringVideos]

I just scored an X240 in great condition with an IPS display for $120. The seller didn't know it had an IPS and it wasn't in the description, so that helped. Love this little thing. Crazy to think just a few years ago it was over $1500 new.

[@SebisRandomTech]

Nice deal!

[@panoramacircle3281]

Very nice overview, thanks! You might have seen my video about my T60 which is still is daily usage for office.

[@SebisRandomTech]

Yep, I saw it some time ago. Really is a solid machine despite its age, if I didn't have my T430 and X230 to use for daily stuff I would probably be using it a little more! At some point I may try to get ahold of an IPS display and do the T70 motherboard mod to make it a real killer machine!

[@AIM9XSW]

Same here. This machine is extremely reliable. The only work I have ever done to it (besides upgrading to a Core 2 Duo T7600 from a Core Duo T2500) was disassemble the fan to clean it. I have used the machine on an almost daily basis for almost 12 years. It runs Windows 10 beautifully with the ATI graphics driver for Windows Vista, and can confirm that it runs Microsoft Office 2016 perfectly. Both of your video series (Panorama and Sebi) are the highest quality ThinkPad KZbin videos I have ever seen. Kudos to you both, and keep up the good work.

[@springer-qb4dv]

Core2 duo thinkpads are perfectly fine, and will run for very looooong time (at least the ones that doesn't have nvidia graphics chip). I use core i7 dell lattitude 7490 and I like my core2 duo thinkipad t500 better as it offers much more pleasant experience.

[@dragunovbushcraft152]

The T400/500 use the ATI Radeon Mobility 3650m, 256mb RAM, and it works flawlessly!

[@ithinkabout4369]

Small correction: The X200 also didn't have a touchpad option. The first X series with that option was the X201.

[@SebisRandomTech]

Whoops, that was a small slip-up of mine. I figured since the X201 could be configured with a touchpad that the X200 could as well. Thanks for catching that!

[@1998diegox]

I've bought a t430 8gb RAM and it will arrive tomorrow. I really want to test it and install KDE Neon on it on a ssd

[@SebisRandomTech]

Let me know how well it works!

[@1998diegox]

Sebi's Random Tech of course. Im also thinking about upgrading the screen and the processor to a dual core i7 3520M but at this moment i have no money, so ill have to wait

[@1998diegox]

Tilen Zupanc because of the tdp, possible thermal issues and bc im planning to use it as a college pc, coding and maybe some basic 3d desing for a 3d printer. I have a full desktop machine that works perfectly fine, so i just want it to write documents and compile some c++, java and python basic programs while im there, so i dont have to go back home for 2-3 hours, work, and then come back to another lecture. It is just to save some time.

[@SebisRandomTech]

I second that, the quad core i7 gives you a lot more bang for your buck.

[@journeyquest1]

Had that setup with i7 before it was stolen. Great laptop but no better than the T420 i7 i am using right now.

[@sunilkumawat5447]

Still using C2Duo. Smoothly running vscode and chrome and thats all i need

[@dragunovbushcraft152]

I stick with the ThinkPads that use DDR3 ram. I have several T400's, and T500's. Some with Radeon graphics. None have broken, and function perfectly. Never had a T400, or T500 fail. Even if it did, I do laptop repair, and can easily find the parts, and repair them.

[@avitld]

They are good but the DDR3 RAM is limited to very low speeds for some reason on those thinkpads.

[@killarpprentice7042]

Great video thankyou .you kinda got me hooked on ibm/lenovo just for quality and easy to upgrade found a niceX61 tablet a x60 tablet got both and swapped parts x60 came with infared and 1400x1050 flexview and fingerprint .the x61 came with 1024x768 no fingerprint no bluetooth ...just installed the middleton bios running smooth on the x61 again thankyou

[@douglasrogers4675]

3:10 the non-unibody MBPs and the 2011s have GPU problems. the 2012 retina models had issues with the soldering on the voltage regulator on the GPU, which is fixable. the 2012 unibody computers do not have this issue.

[@dragunovbushcraft152]

I have a T500 with a C2D T9600, with Radeon ATI 3650 mobility graphics, and 1650x1080 display. I paid $30+$20 shipping USD. I added 8gb PC3 1333, 256gb SanDisk SSD, 500gb 7200rpm in ODB. I use it for older games, like Mass Effect 2/Sims 2/3, etc. I also run Office 2013 and some older graphics programs. It's up to any computing task, save for newer games, and does them as well as any, newer computer. Granted, mine was in "unused", but not "new" condition when I got it. I have a total of $100 USD in this computer, and it's one of my favorites. I currently run Win7Pro, but plan on upgrading it to Win8.1Pro, with Classic Shell. This computer was mfd in 2009. Works better than most new computers, and is fast enough, even for an impatient person.

[@dragunovbushcraft152]

There have been ZERO issues with "throttling", or any other GPU problem. I tend to believe the nVidia graphics included with these older C2D's, were poorly designed. However, I have had two of these C2D ThinkPads, with ATI Radeon mobility graphics, and they currently, and always have been trouble free.

[@zhongj]

@@dragunovbushcraft152 Did you brought the laptop on ebay or another marketplace?

[@dragunovbushcraft152]

Yes, bought it on Ebay. I added ram, SSD, and O/S.@@zhongj

[@zhongj]

@@dragunovbushcraft152 What would be the minimum requirement for a laptop to perform basic tasks using modern apps? Is there any processor before the Core 2 duo that can perform such tasks that a normal user might be able to live with?

[@dragunovbushcraft152]

@@zhongj I wouldn't recommend anything before Core2Duo. My T500 runs Office 2013, Firefox, etc. I run Win7Pro on it, but I HAVE successfully run both Win 8.1, and Win 10 on it with a SSD. For most people, the T420 would suffice. It'll run most modern apps, and do it faster than a Core2Duo. Add a SSD, and it's even better. Get one with the NVS nVidia 4200m graphics, and it's not a half bad, light "Gamer" It will accept 16gb/ PC3-1333 ram. You can upgrade the CPU to i7 2640m (safely). You can upgrade the display, to 1600x900. You can actually have a second hard disk in the Optical Drive bay. You can always get a USB external DVD case, to put your old DVD burner in. Best thing, you can get them for under (sometimes WELL under) $120 USD. Parts are everywhere, and cheap, and it's reasonably easy to work on. There are videos all over KZbin on how to do various repairs on them, and most of them are pretty decent.

[@semco72057]

I have the T400 laptop and it has Windows 10 installed on it and it originally came with Windows Vista on it. Since the computer isn't working the way it is suppose to I am going to erase the OS and install ArcaOS 5.3 on it. That is after figuring out what happened to my screen which goes blank after the boot screen.

[@kattz753]

When the Core 2’s came out, there was a widespread problem with bad capacitors in both Motherboards and video cards. I know this all too well. I built a Core 2 Quad in 2007. It had 2 video cards in SLI. One card popped. The second one went as soon as I replaced the first one. Then the motherboard went. The video cards went again a couple of years later. Anything that’s still around is probably OK, but you’re right. I would definitely avoid the GPUs from that era.

[@SebisRandomTech]

With the T61 and many other laptops from 2007 that use Nvidia GPUs, a higher failure rate is anticipated as Nvidia used a lower quality bonding agent in their mobile GPUs that generation. Lenovo fixed the issue with a revised T61 motherboard, but these can be difficult to find so I usually advise steering clear of the T61 in general unless you can find either a revised board or an Intel GMA board.

[@martinsigsworth8286]

So what's the maximum ram on a T410? I keep hearing different numbers. Mines running 8GB

[@SebisRandomTech]

8 GB is the max on a T410. T420 and newer can take 16.

[@thomasgwosdz5020]

Great Video, Sebi! I have a T60 (2613) that I'm upgrading to the T7200 processor. I also want to replace the HDD with an SSD. Can't find one online that is guaranteed to match. Is there a technical limitation, or can I drop a SATA SSD in there and have it work? Will it be any faster than my HDD, given SATA I limitations?

[@SebisRandomTech]

Any 2.5" SATA SSD will work. While the SATA I speeds will limit the performance of the SSD, it will still be faster than any mechanical hard drive.

[@yingxiangyao5323]

I have a x1 yoga 2nd gen and x31 for collection that cost around 50 euro but with new battery and ssd. I wanted to get something like x201 or x61 or even x41 at least but x41 and x61 cost at least 100 euro in germany and x201 way more.

[@SebisRandomTech]

Just hunt around for a good deal and keep checking eBay and local listings. If you plan on actually using the computers go for an X61 or X201, as they are much faster than the X41.

[@k.b.tidwell]

It's strange to hear that these earliest 64bit machines were limited to addressing only 3GB of RAM, since normally the 64bit architecture totally removed that limitation. I understand it was the chipset's fault, but it must have been some sort of legacy restriction.

[@eljuancho2]

I love my thinkpad E470 videos, light gaming,finance, investing and many other things, battery last me 5 hours in battery save mode, and is not that chonky, git it for q06 usd from ebay tax included.

[@journeyquest1]

Got a nice T61 for $50. Built like a tank. Runs a little warm, a little heavy and the battery life is crap but otherwise a nice laptop. Have 4 gigs ramm. Some say it will take 8 gigs ramm but 4 gig sticks are $$$? The SSD really helped.

[@SimonZellox]

My Thinkpad T500 recently failed for no reason. It still turns on but the screen stays black and not all LED's are lighting up.

[@SebisRandomTech]

It could be a failing backlight/inverter.

[@SimonZellox]

@@SebisRandomTech I first thought it would be the GPU but a guy on Reddit suggested that could be a power delivery issue. The backlight stays off and the computer doesn't boot into an OS. Connecting it to an external monitor does nothing but the fans still spin so it shows some signs of life. Really weird...

[@SebisRandomTech]

@@SimonZellox Something similar happened to my T60, could be something in the power delivering failing like the guy on Reddit said. In my case water damage was finally affecting the system (I had the system for 2 years oblivious to this before it showed any trouble).

[@KennethScharf]

I have a T400 from that era. Not a bad machine.

[@dragunovbushcraft152]

The T400 is still relevant today. GREAT little computer!

[@emmanuelmiraflores4099]

Is the X200s a minor revision to the X200 as well?

[@SebisRandomTech]

It’s a thinner version of the X200. The X201 and X201s were minor revisions of both.

[@gregorysmith3097]

Digging all the ThinkPad info. I started using a T420 in 2016, so it was about 5 years old at that time. It won't support the Windoze bloat-ware, but runs Linux wonderfully. I just picked up a T450s for a class I have coming up, but the T420 works well. Unless things change drastically, I'll be using a Thinkpad T-series for the foreseeable future.

[@SebisRandomTech]

Considering I have Windows 10 running perfectly fine on my T601 (T61 motherboard in a T60 chassis), 2007 components, I am sure it runs just fine on a T420. The T450 and T450s are very solid machines.

[@gregorysmith3097]

@@SebisRandomTech No clue if Win 10 runs fine on a T450s. First thing I did was figure out how to boot from an SD card and installed Ubuntu Linus.

[@SebisRandomTech]

@@gregorysmith3097 It will. Works with any product key too.

[@age_of_reason]

I need a new laptop and am considering buying my first Lenovo. I'm thinking of getting an older ThinkPad vs. a brand new IdeaPad Flex 5. The ThinkPad that really caught my eye is the X230. Any thoughts?

[@SebisRandomTech]

Depends entirely on what you need your laptop for. When it comes to general computing the X230 is a very solid machine.

[@age_of_reason]

@@SebisRandomTech I do mostly MS Office work, Excel, but also use mySQL and intend to get into programming more in the near future. My main concern is that a remote job may require newer laptop for Zoom/Skype meetings, collaborations, etc.

[@KylesDigitalLab]

I have never noticed the T4xx series is named that because the screen size is 14 inches. And the same with the X2xx, and W5/7xx series. Also, my T60 has the ATI graphics chip. I also have a broken T60p, it doesn't power on at all. No lights or anything. I'm going to swap a new mobo into it and give it to my grandma. Do you think the motherboard failed because of the graphics?

[@SebisRandomTech]

That is one of the most common ways laptops fail, a defective GPU, however the T60 wasn't known for having faulty graphics, its younger brother the T61 *was*. With machines this old it is possible that any number of things could have led to a board failure.

[@sotency]

Watching on t400s with ssd/8gb ram. Still my daily drive.

[@SebisRandomTech]

Very nice machine! The T400 series in general was pretty solid overall.

[@Mr_L1n4x]

Sebis do you know the diference between a x61 and x61s?

[@SebisRandomTech]

X61s is a slightly thinner variant that uses low-power processors.

[@Mustang-jw2mo]

What do you think of the R61 dual core 2.0ghz

[@SebisRandomTech]

With some upgrades it can be fairly usable for light everyday tasks.

[@Mustang-jw2mo]

Sebi's Random Tech oh ok thanks. Do you think it would be a good beginner laptop to learn on

[@SebisRandomTech]

@@Mustang-jw2mo Definitely.

[@Mustang-jw2mo]

Sebi's Random Tech thank you that's great I'm picking one up for 40 Canadian. Awesome videos I've already learned a lot for a noob like me there are great info keep it up Thanks

[@TheDeadrabbit71]

I have R60.Still works..

[@dragunovbushcraft152]

BTW, the Radeon Graphics in the T400/500, work fine with Win8.1. Not WinX. You can get a T500 with IPS display of 1680x1050, or 1920x1200 display.

[@SebisRandomTech]

Those were not IPS displays. After the T60 the only ThinkPads to have IPS displays were some of the X-series machines, T-series laptops didn’t get IPS displays again until the T440s and T440p.

[@dragunovbushcraft152]

Sebi's Random Tech I stand corrected. it is a WSXGA display.

[@dragunovbushcraft152]

T400=ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3450 T500=ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3650 Hope this helps. :)

[@MLGKid420]

T400 has the HD 3470, not 3450.

[@gokurocks9]

@@MLGKid420 Can confirm, my T400 has the 3470

[@Fahrenheit38]

If you wanna sell a t60 I'd love to buy it

[@kattz753]

Good video. I was always a bit paranoid about the Thinkpad after it was sold to Lenovo. I heard that there were back doors so I avoided them Many computer stores sell MARS refurbished notebooks. These are refurbished by Microsoft certified people and usually come with a one year warranty. Usually they look almost new. You are also dealing with a person you may know such as your local computer store. I found that as a Canadian, these are only about $20-30 more after I factor in delivery and duty. I don’t know if it makes sense for you guys in the US. It’s worth checking a few out before buying something sight unseen on eBay.

[@SebisRandomTech]

Most of the "backdoor" issues were on Lenovo's consumer laptops such as IdeaPads, not on their ThinkPad line. The issues have since been fixed and even if they were still there I always do a clean install on every laptop I buy, so it wouldn't be an issue for me.

[@kattz753]

@@SebisRandomTech Yeah...I thought that the problem was right in the BIOS. I thought that was the reason why people were using the open source BIOS. I should have looked into it more sooner.It would have saved me from buying a piece of crap that lasted until a month after the warranty ran out. The refurb turned out to be a great deal for me. Unfortunately, no matter what condition the notebook is in, the duty, exchange and shipping adds $80-120 Canadian for us. Even a beat up T430 with all the parts is about $220 for me and the refurbs with a core i5, 8 GB of memory, a small SSD or a 320 GB spinning drive are about $250. That includes a one year warranty. I got my T430 a couple of days ago. They were out of the Core i5's so I ended up spending $50 more. It had a Core i7 3520, 8GB, 500 GB spinning HD, fingerprint reader and the 1600x900 screen. It was well worth it, It looks like it has barely been used. The battery has nearly 100% capacity. There is just one small mark on the touchpad, otherwise it is in pristine condition. I really didn't want a spinning HD but that's easily replaced. I just ordered a small mSATA for Windows and I'll use that until the 1 TB SSDs drop a bit more. That will probably be a few months with everything shut down in China. So thanks for doing the videos. I couldn't be happier with my new toy. Hope school works out. Don't laugh, but look at some Canadian schools. We have very few private colleges and universities, but from what you went through, more regulation might not be a bad thing. They're still top-notch schools and the tuition, even for a US student, might be a lot less than what you're paying now. Just a suggestion.

[@SebisRandomTech]

@@kattz753 Had a wonderful professor last year who was from Saskatchewan and earned her undergraduate degree there. It's an option I'm not entirely opposed to, however it would take a very low price to be able to look like a good option to me.

[@elektron2kim666]

In my world, the T60 seems more reliable than the T61 and it might be the ATI / Nvidia difference.

[@SebisRandomTech]

I believe I mentioned that in this video. If not, I am actually working on a video that will dive into the issues the T61 had.

[@JakeJoris]

x201 is a large revision. x200 used c2d and x201 used i-series cpus.

[@SebisRandomTech]

I mentioned this. Physically they are not too different, sharing a lot of the same components. Internally it's a large revision, but externally not so much.

[@jaa93997]

What was it, 2011, the year of the Nvidia scandal?

[@SebisRandomTech]

I don’t remember the exact year, but it was the T61 that was most heavily affected.

[@claudehoule8316]

how do I hook up to a smart t v

[@JakeJoris]

some t400s came with led displays.

[@claudehoule8316]

sorry my t520

[@JakeJoris]

you cannot get x200 with a touchpad!

[@SebisRandomTech]

This has already been noted in previous comments, but thanks.

[@walid7885]

It's the graphic card that is the problem and they were not defective. It's the laptop design that does not allow heat dissipation because they are too thin. GPUs run hotter than CPUs, And games are so bloated and poorly designed that the GPU struggles and heats up substantially. And there is more.

[@SebisRandomTech]

Not true. Nearly any laptop from 2007-2008 that used Nvidia GPUs (ThinkPads, Dell Latitudes, HP ProBooks, and even MacBook Pros) had the same symptoms and the same defect. The issue was because of a low quality bonding agent in the GPU die. This issue has been well documented and can be found online from a simple Google search. A revised version of the T61 motherboard was available, both at the *very* end of the T61's retail availability and as a replacement part from Lenovo. These boards have revised GPUs that won't fail from normal use. I have one of the revised boards and it still works perfectly, the issue is certainly not because of the laptop being too thin.

[@ulungrinjanidharma8609]

Just try Linux. Core 2 Duo ThinkPad's is so compatible with Linux. And if you're opening Linux terminal on Core 2 Duo's ThinkPad, you'll feels like, seriously, *hacker* 😂

[@autismisnotmysuperpower]

If you accept the fact that components will eventually break and are comfortable replacing/ repairing them as issues arise, old thinkpads are a great way to go.