SECRET FINGERING! Chopin Nocturne Op9/2 CADENZA!

[@gormobro]

KZbin is now recommending me FORBIDDEN PIANO TECH. Perfect.

[@vimtheprotogen2855]

Leeeeets gooooooo!

[@seancregomusic]

Gotta love the algorithm!

[@chr3d2]

@@seancregomusic agreed

[@jamesbigfan364]

​@@seancregomusic gotta be lucky about the existence of the internet

[@echowang2370]

haha😂❤

[@garethedwards1361]

This is brilliant. So much easier than what I was trying.

[@yuzuru54o]

What a nice piano sound. Wow!

[@seancregomusic]

One thing I love about this piano is how wonderful the very top range is for a 5'8" piano--usually that part of the range is rather awful on a piano of this size...but not this one!!

[@n.s.3410]

This looks great 👍. However, I’m glad I practiced the traditional fingering for a long time. It really improved my dexterity.

[@seancregomusic]

That brings up an entire discussion of what is "traditional fingering," and who decided it? Fingering has always been extremely personal--sure, we have "guidelines"--but how good are they, really, for everyone? Editors? (There is an on-going joke that editors who put in fingerings don't even play piano!) Pedagogues? (Pedagogy, especially regarding fingerings, is evolving very quickly--have you seen the "alternate" fingerings for scales and arpeggios? They are awesome!!!) Composers? (Nah--composers like Chopin often wrote in fingerings that have made it into urtext scores, and they are not "traditional" in any way...especially using finger 5 on consecutive notes to get that very light sound on a piano that, for him, was already very light!) LOTS of things to think about here!!

[@espressonoob]

@@seancregomusic I believe chopin wrote different fingerings for different people, could be wrong on that, but I feel like I remember reading it somewhere that it was a personal thing to do and there wasn't an EXACT standard like today seems to assume us with these editions.

[@seancregomusic]

@@espressonoob very likely. As a modern piano pedagogue, I am VERY much into "fingering is very personal" and throw out the "standards" without remorse. The standards have proven time and time again to cause a lot of pain and other issues in the last several decades. There are MANY books and respected pedagogues who have been saying things like this for 30+ years, but people love to hang on to the old theories and all that. There are some Beethoven and Mozart pieces (scale-heavy) that I have been working on where I completely re-finger the scale passages; makes my hands MUCH more comfortable, no pain, and I am able to execute the music even better! And what works for me may not work for some of my students, and so on.

[@kairon5249]

@@seancregomusic indeed. for me it is way easier to just play 3-2-4-1 for this part. I have long but quite thin fingers, while you seem to have much shorter but thicker ones. That would probably explain the difference.

[@seancregomusic]

@@kairon5249 maybe. I can reach a 12th without any struggle.

[@pinkfloyddwc]

Interesting... I'll try it

[@michaelrobinson9023]

Other suggestion: use two hands. Using fingers 2 and 3, one hand plays B-natural and C and the other hand plays B-flat and A, also using fingers 2 and 3.

[@seancregomusic]

Might work for some, but I haven't seen much success with even coordination like that (similar to when people use two hands for repeated notes). But, if one can pull it off, more power to 'em!

[@KlausDave]

Great idea. It works well. Way more comfy is using LH 3 on b flat and 1 on a.

[@igorcarvalhopadilhaandrade5886]

🥰How Good It Is To Have A Pianist Family🥰

[@ianmoore5502]

Forbidden piano tech is super spicy

[@seancregomusic]

Keeps life interesting!

[@explogeek]

It does seem easier, thank you, I was just wondering about this part

[@κΥκΥ]

what a brilliant technique!

[@nnou]

me still doing 3-2-4-1 the original way after seeing this

[@seancregomusic]

Nothing wrong with that. But I wonder who decided on the common fingering edit, when they did, and how they came up with it. We know that Chopin used much different fingerings back in his day than we do now, based on his own fingerings in his own edits. And don't get me started on Bach--we know that they used fingerings back then that we would find absurd today. :)

[@gameclips5734]

@@seancregomusic i imagine it was someone sensible, 3241 is arguably the most comfortable for most hands/fingers so no reason to not use it

[@seancregomusic]

@@gameclips5734 yep, to each their own. They are all ideas and not one way is required be law.

[@picakiaak]

Seems to work better indeed 😀...I'll give it a try thanks for posting!

[@davidlee2822]

Sean, I had just approached this cresc, and my proposed fingering of 3-2-4-1 , after practicing it for a while, just wasn't allowing me to gain gradually "speed with control". I can see that your proposed fingering is going to work. Hats off to your teacher! And, thank you for sharing. I have a question. I've listened to several people performing this on KZbin... How come no one seems to follow proposed phrasing, pedaling, and staccato markings as found in, for example, "Urtext"of G. Henley Verlag publishers? Such seems to be completely ignored.

[@seancregomusic]

@@davidlee2822 because people just do what they want and call it artistic license. 😆 Part of it is having a deep understanding of (or lack of) performance practices of the time period, but also because pianos of the time were vastly (understatement) different then.

[@a118studios7]

What happened just did it and poof, perfect Thank you

[@At_rgb]

I feel like a minor joke would fit perfectly here

[@raa-jj]

bro

[@aaliiissssaaaaaa_21]

Wt** thank you so much brooooo i always get that partwrong

[@seancregomusic]

Glad it was helpful! Too many teachers don't want to update their pedagogy and are stuck in their old ways with old "rules." Modern pedagogues throw out a lot of rules and go with "whatever works for you as an individual, as long as it gets the job done without pain and fatigue!"

[@ViktorRadoslavov]

I was just getting mad over this cause that's the one part I don't feel confident with in this piece. Thank you!

[@seancregomusic]

That's the issue with music at this level...it's not too bad most of the time, but a few measures can be really tough and blow the whole thing. (Similar to the famous C# minor Nocturne I recorded recently as a request.)

[@drakestube]

Nice.

[@leoribic1691]

This is awesome! Would you happen to know one for the fioritura in Op 27. No 2? I know Chopin gave one and I probably just need to practise it since I haven't, but if you have any advice I'd appreciate it so much!

[@seancregomusic]

only advice for that one is to not be afraid to try your thumb on the black keys to keep the fingering consistent, but only if: 1) your technique is advanced enough to keep black-key thumbs from banging out the notes too much, and 2) it fits YOUR hand comfortably. That is a tough one, but: 3) practice will make it fairly "easy" (relatively speaking, for an advanced player); just like the little cadenza in Moonlight III is quite easy once practiced without any secrets.

[@leoribic1691]

@@seancregomusic Great, thank you so much for the help!

[@zacarias635]

I love the sound of your Petrof

[@bachduongnguyen7345]

Wow its so muchh easier thank u a lot ❤❤❤❤❤

[@bradhoehne8369]

Hey, cool, thanks. Also, from one Petrof owner to another, you don't see many Petrofs in piano videos.

[@seancregomusic]

I have a video talking about how amazing they are!

[@vilas3960]

I MADE IT!!!! THANK YOU!

[@gamingforlife2232]

made what

[@OClurzxy]

@@gamingforlife2232 children.

[@omarino99]

I love the title hahah

[@seancregomusic]

Thanks! It's about as click-baity as I ca get.

[@larghedoggo9607]

This motion is in one direction of circling, which might make it legit. However it requires a bigger hand and wrist angle needs to be right shifted(outward) a bit, which is kinda awkward for right hand playing with such high notes. Same as your demostration in the video, putting one's wrist in that gesture in high octave, your body need to move all the way to right. (if you play this fingering within middle octave range it might be fine) But thankfully it's single hand solo, it might work for some people, not for me. Can't feel more comfortable with 3241 since it actually fits humsn fingers angle. Nice voice from your Petrof btw.

[@seancregomusic]

A lot of people sit on the bench like they are encased in cement. One thing I learned in college way, way, way back from a Hungarian teacher was movement and freedom about the bench as needed. That takes care of your concerns, but I get what you are saying, as extreme ranges of the instrument are much more challenging to play for some people. I am 6'4" with long arms, so for me it's never a concern, but for a teenage student, yes, it definitely could be of great concern. It all boils down to how PERSONAL technique and playing is, rather than putting everything into a nice little box like has been done for 150+ years, not to mention how much larger the piano has become (side to side) than from, say, Beethoven's and Chopin's time. I have played replica Chopin pianos, and the keys are so much more narrow than ours are today, for example!

[@edgardoyaelcuberomonroig8119]

Secret figuring? I already have done that before

[@seancregomusic]

Fantastic!

[@ahmedmuhsin1934]

It seems easy and effective but when I try this IRL it just doesn't work. The fingering is kind of unnatural to me.

[@seancregomusic]

It's an acquired taste for sure, but it comes around after a bit. I thought it was crazy at first, too, but it's just another tool in the toolbox, so to speak!

[@ahmedmuhsin1934]

@@seancregomusic Thank you anyway.

[@cottonbear2777]

3 2 4 1

[@RaptorT1V]

yeah! this fingering is alot better

[@ThomasDawkins88]

This is the fingering that I use, and after playing it once somebody asked me "how do you DO that?!" So I thought about it, and the answer is that I need as little movement as I can get away with to play it quickly and crisply, fingers very close to the keys. This will, of course, depend on the action of the piano that I'm playing, but extra motion will slow it down and make it uneven.

[@bruhmomenthdr7575]

The only correct fingering

[@ilovebach1010]

I use this fingering too.

[@calebg6587]

Secret fingering sounds enticing.. 😏

[@seancregomusic]

@@calebg6587 I should write headlines for the newspaper!

[@charliekane135]

Can't understand a word this gentleman is saying.

[@seancregomusic]

Aww, sorry about that. Just wanted to keep it short and quick.

[@ForALittleSupport]

Nice to know! Fingering is too hard for me tho 😥

[@seancregomusic]

Like anything, it might take a bit. Start slowly then build up stored and it might work out just fine!

[@hotsummerboy]

Lol. I have 2 sheet music versions which have that fingering. Hardly a secret.

[@seancregomusic]

Really?? I have NEVER seen that fingering edited in that way! What editions are they?

[@hotsummerboy]

@@seancregomusic Frederick Harris edition + one that I downloaded on the internet both show that fingering. Also, if you’ve ever played Flight of the Bumble Bee, you would automatically use that fingering for the Nocturne.

[@iceguy8112]

Can you play Ballade one

[@seancregomusic]

20 years ago, sure, but not these days. My health is too challenging to be able to put any consistent time into anything like that. :(

[@schopin]

i use 1 2 3 5

[@eddieandmaxie]

I use both hands (is that ok?)

[@seancregomusic]

Sure! If it works for you without injury, AND the **original intention of sound/nuance/phrasing is still accurate**, then it doesn't matter when it comes down to it.

[@Sara-lk2yr]

A clever fingering can be a good shortcut. 😜 But... Maybe before trying to play this piece students should have a good equality of the fingers. To improve It they could put rhythm exercises on this passage and reach the skill to play It with a normal 3241. 😜

[@seancregomusic]

Perhaps, but this is one of those pieces that is generally given to students waaaaay too soon. If it's introduced at an appropriate time in the student's timeline, I don't think your concerns would be much of an issue. Just a thought.

[@seancregomusic]

[Ooops, hit the wrong key] ...but, regardless, this is simply a "take it or leave it" type suggestion, anyway.

[@josantonioalcantara]

Fingers can never have equal strength no matter how hard you work them. You need to use small circle motions of your wrist and transfer weight to the keys in order to get faster in this cadenza

[@Sara-lk2yr]

@@josantonioalcantarayou can do It when you play very slow but when the passage Is too fast or with complex articulation (in bach's poliphony for example) you can't move the wrist. And I am not so sure you Will compromise other fingers equality as if you was limping... 🤔 Fingers maybe Will never have a complete equal strentht but It doesn't mean you can't improve It to achieve a good equality that permit you to play very well a lot of music. There are many famous piano player that have a stunning equality without any movement of wrists and also for very very fast passages where you can see their hands completely still.

[@josantonioalcantara]

@@Sara-lk2yr I play this nocturne and that’s exactly how I play this cadenza. Of course you can move the wrists and transfer weight at high speeds, that’s how I play etudes op 10 no 12, op 25 no 1,2 and 11, prelude op 28 no 14 and 16. The motion can’t be perceived by the eye but can be felt. Professional pianists do this at high speeds, hands can’t never be still nor use only finger strength, it’s anatomical impossible. It’s an optical illusion. To achieve what you call evenness of the fingers you need to transfer weight with active fingers, use the shape of your hands and in some occasions, momentum of the motion combined with the natural motion of the fingers hand and wrists in an optimized way.

[@isaacng123456789]

3 2 2(L) 3(L) sacrilegious

[@seancregomusic]

Whatever works. Not sure I could do it faster that way, though. Too much coordination

[@XcuZ2win]

super mario world , ghost house

[@bypig]

This guy's hands are giant

[@seancregomusic]

Almost tied with Rachmaninov!

[@bypig]

@@seancregomusic so how many keys can you reach?

[@bypig]

Also are you tall?

[@seancregomusic]

@@bypig not as many as I used to. I can reach a 12th without keys in the middle. I used to be able to reach a 12th AND keys in the middle (C, Eb, G, G)

[@seancregomusic]

@@bypig 6'4"!!

[@avyeris]

sorry to break it to you, everybody plays it like this lol

[@seancregomusic]

I hope that's true, but if you scan the comments on this video, apparently "no one does". I chuckle a lot at this comments section.

[@avyeris]

@@seancregomusic actually i was wrong lol why you use finger 2 first and finger 3 ? it gets in the way of playing the way i see it

[@seancregomusic]

@@avyeris try it! Doesn't work for everyone, but it works great. I am finding that a lot of fingerings by editors for MacDowell does this, too, depending on edition. Five different people will come up with eight different ways!

[@jackisinforthewin]

​@@avyeris simple 1234 is easier that 1324

[@JJones-xt8id]

no I find the Chopin fingering easier. Tnx anyways though

[@seancregomusic]

@@JJones-xt8id the Chopin fingering? He didn’t write in fingering there, so there is no “Chopin fingering”. Sorry.

[@JJones-xt8id]

@@seancregomusic haha my bad then. The way i learned it was 3241 3241

[@rosiefay7283]

3rd finger over 2nd finger?? Chopin knew not to pass one long finger over another.

[@seancregomusic]

Read the rest of the discussion in this comments section. And don't ever play Bach, then. (I am being facetious, but still.) :)

[@m.moonsie]

You don't need this "secret fingering" lol. Just practice the correct and proper fingering VERY SLOWLY, eventually you will get it right -- just like anything about any pieces, practice slowly. NOT this bullshit 3rd finger over 2nd finger, unless you want to break your fingers.

[@seancregomusic]

Disagree. There is no "correct and proper" anything. Guidelines, yes, but even basic scales are going in favor of alternate fingering in modern pedagogy for the past 20 years or so. The only fingering "rules" are that you portray the music as intended, and don't cause injury to yourself. That's it. Pedagogues are FINALLY realizing that each human is built differently, and what might work for one person doesn't work best for everyone. Look at the piano legends. None of them are "correct and proper." They all do things that our own teachers told us to never do for 100 years.