SECRET Line 6 Helix ALTERNATIVE

[@ruvchbrevth]

I run the POD Go primarily, now with the HX Stomp and it’s basically the same thing, I absolutely love it.

[@BillySoundFarm]

It's a great time to be alive for guitar players lol

[@riffrockband]

I have the Helix Floor for full band gigs and the HX Stomp XL for acoustic-electric. Two essentials for me with the Floor model are the scribble strips which I customize for each song or preset with snapshots using HX Edit and also the Expression Pedal.

[@BillySoundFarm]

I just plugged an expression pedal into the HX effects, I like the little mini sonicake one. I agree with you on the scribble strips. I talked about doing the same labeling thing for each song in this hx effects video I made last week: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZpPbdoCGoZZja8U ... I never needed them for the HX stomp because the display is right over the footswitches. This is the first I'm realizing I couldn't use a stomp xl, thanks for pointing that out!

[@EW-xw6bd]

Well putting an HX Stomp (645€) and HX Effects (599€) together that way isn't sparing any money at all. The Helix Floor is selling now for 1249€ (same price as the combo) and the Helix LT for 899€. The prices just fall by 200€ in September 2024. However HX Stomp and HX Effects prices are still the same and even rising for last four years. In 2020 an HX Stomp was sold around 549€. Using HX-Stomp/HX Effects approach has following drawbacks : - You still don't have an expression pedal included - 4 Cable Method needed - Powering with 9DC/2A needed for the Stomp, don't know how much the HX effects needs. In a Helix LT/Floor you just plug in AC - Live editing mode not available for quick adjustments. On Helix Floor/LT just go into editing mode, select parameter to be adjusted and adjust it with the EXP-Pedal.

[@moxy1972]

I’ve had this setup on my small pedal board with an extra switch and expression pedal for a few years now. 👍

[@dominic18719]

This is great, but it won't do absolutely everything the Helix Floor will do. If you are a Variax player as I am (Shuriken SR270), the Floor works seamlessly with it, making changes to the Variax with the foot switches. The Stomp + Effects combo doesn't have the Variax Ethercon input to do this.

[@isaacbirks7941]

Bruh... just get the Helix LT for like $700... then its in 1 unit... It's newer... It's lighter... same dsp as the helix... same number of foot pedals... no latemcy... you won't need patch cables... extra power cables... you get an expression pedal... need I say more?

[@BillySoundFarm]

The Helix LT is a fine unit, I looked into that when I wanted to have something more than just my Stomp. There were two dealbreakers for me: 1. It doesn't have scribble strips. I run snapshot mode all the time and I name each snapshot for the parts of the songs (Verses, Chrous, etc.). There's no way I could memorize what buttons do what for 50 different songs. 2. I would only have been comfortable spending the money if I also sold my stomp. But I couldn't sell my stomp even if I bought the Helix LT, because that I couldn't take that honkin' thing anywhere and set it on a desk to work on stuff. This was my biggest reason, at the time, for not buying the full size helix and trying to get a good deal used. ...The 'extra power cables' thing is real. I don't mind extra patch cables now that I have my little snake, but it's so annoying to me to have to always remember two power cables lol.

[@amphibious4463]

But it’s 1200

[@m1ckdelta858]

If you're sitting at a table with an electric guitar, an amp modeler, and headphones, at a Starbucks... You're still a psycho. Seriously. No one does that. Stop. ;) Great video and an interesting perspective.

[@BillySoundFarm]

lol fair enough

[@BillySoundFarm]

People definitely stare

[@nv8505]

😇You are a pioneer. Brilliant innovative solution. I can relate to your way of thinking. I'm running HX effects into a NANO CORTEX and plugging into the return on a Boss Katana 100 2x12 . Awesome amps and all in one FX !

[@los007live]

I don’t even take my guitar to Starbucks because I’m not a psycho

[@foxmeisteruk]

The HX FX doesn't have variable input impedance on the guitat input, whereas the HX Stomp does. This may not matter to you, but some effects (e.g. fuzz) will interact with your guitar more accurately with a more appropriate input impedance.

[@BillySoundFarm]

That's a great observation! I forgot about the variable input impedance (mostly because I don't fully understand it lol)

[@rolandoamado1459]

What do you think about the HX Stomp/Tonex combo?

[@BillySoundFarm]

I would love to do that if I was using captures of my own amps. It's definitely one of the next steps for me to work on snapshots of my own amps using Kemper or tonex, and Kemper doesn't make a good small "amp profile only" unit. The Kemper stage is almost as big as a helix! I could drag in an actual Kemper head. But that matter I could carry in a tube amp and plug it into an ox box. But the most likely thing for me will be tonex. Especially since they have a new line of full featured affordable computer interfaces that are so small and I would love to try them. But I'm not there yet so who knows what technology will be available when I get around to that level. To me it doesn't make any sense to try to use captures from someone else's amps on a tonex because I have a better version of that on the stomp already.

[@bobolufson9861]

You're a great explainer. Thank you

[@BillySoundFarm]

Thanks!

[@jeremylondon47]

I am doing a similar stack but with a older M13 using 4CM. it’s a great mini rig to make any sound.

[@BillySoundFarm]

I didn't know about M13... Phil Mcknight always speaks well of his M5. Does the M13 have a computer editor like HX edit?

[@jeremylondon47]

It’s a generation before the helix but after the HD series floorboards It’s nice because I can split the signal chain to use 2 banks (6 stomps) pre and 2 banks in the post.. then use the amp/cab/ir and other hx stomp goodies as needed No editor on the M13 but knobs under every screen with Parma read outs Can be paired with midi controller for seamless switching.. but that’s less travel ready

[@BillySoundFarm]

@@jeremylondon47 sweet.

[@TVsBen]

This probably works for about 90% of users and scenarios, but I couldn't figure out how to make it work for me. I use a guitar with two outputs (one piezo and one for the regular magnetic pickups) and have two different paths on my Helix to process in parallel, and then control both sides with a snapshot or seven. The Helix (floor or LT, either one, but I have an LT) was the only thing I could find to do what I want - I haven't even seen videos on Quad Cortex or AxeFX III on this sort of thing (although I would not be surprised to find out it's possible on those expensive units). 1.) I use a nice amp model with an IR model and more effects blocks than the HX Stomp can support for the magnetic pups and output on the left. 2.) Then the second signal path from Aux in from the piezo has a completely different set of effects and outputs on the right side of the Helix. Now when I set up snapshots, I get to control (toggle, change levels, etc.) on BOTH paths with a single foot switch. And I use seven of the snapshots: clean, light distortion, heavier distortion, a syrup-y lead tone, ambient clean, ambient light distortion, and a super ambient patch with an 8-second tail for swells. The lead tone also turns off the acoustic pickup so I don't have to tapdance (I can also control it with a second expression pedal). I kicked around the idea of using two Pod Go's for this, but the snapshot compromise is pretty steep. HX Stomp XL has the same snapshot issue. They both max out at four, and they can't control the other unit that I can find.

[@BillySoundFarm]

I think I could put a set of patches together that did what your Helix is doing across two devices, and they can control each other through MIDI. But the snapshots thing kind of seals the deal. If you're using all 7, then the full size unit is the obvious choice. I've thought of workarounds for that to get effectively 7 or even more snapshots out of the two units, but it would be 'useable' at best, and clunky under any circumstances. For my presets, I never need more than 4 and usually don't need more than three.

[@hellsing1983]

I was wondering if this would work.

[@BillySoundFarm]

It surely does!

[@dannyschellenberger8268]

I just checked pricing on Sweetwater Helix Stomp: $700 HX Effects: $650 Helix: $1700 Approximate price for quality cables: $100 Approximate price of quality expression pedal: $150 If purchased new on Sweetwwater, you are paying $1600 for the Megazord. Spend an extra $100 and get the big boy Helix. Why save $100 to inconvenience yourself and increase the amount of patches you need to maintain? This rig makes very little sense unless you just get super awesome deals in the used market. Even then, the Helix LT is a more viable and affordable option. At first glance, this solution seems clever, but it is not worth saving $100. If you are spending $1600 but cannot afford $1700, then you cannot afford the $1600 to begin with

[@BillySoundFarm]

Each of these goes for around $450 used from guitar center. Probably can do much better if you get a "super awesome deal". But honestly, even if they were exactly the same price I would take the modular approach over the full size helix (for reasons explained in the video) ...But you're right that you should be able to get a used Helix LT for the same cost as a Stomp and FX unit. But then you have no scribble strips. Can you really live without scribble strips? And even if you could, does that mean you should?

[@dannyschellenberger8268]

@@BillySoundFarm I can see the argument for the modularity and having the Helix stomp as a portable practice tool. And if you do find the units for a good used price, then it does make the approach more compelling. I suppose I was approaching this as someone who doesn’t currently own a modeler and have been cross-shopping different options. If someone already owned a small unit like the Helix Stomp, then adding something to it like a used HX Effects might be a cool option

[@BillySoundFarm]

@@dannyschellenberger8268 If you're shopping from scratch I would recommend the stomp. I did a video on it, specifically for P&W but I think it applies to all kinds of music: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXbWaqKFd8SbgLs ...I cannot stress enough how much more value I get because I can tinker with the thing on my desk. ...If I was starting from scratch and was only going to buy one thing, I would buy the HX Stomp again, or I would go Fractal and get an FM9. But now that I know how to use the HX models it doesn't makes sense for me to start over on Fractal models, even though people say they're better. If they are better, they can't be much better. All these modelers are so good these days.

[@thomasvoglreiter7772]

latency is huge with this setup!in total you have 8 ad/da conversions, each adding arround 3ms per conversion… sums up to 24ms total! really noticable and hard to play anything that requires ‚tightness‘

[@BillySoundFarm]

That's a good observation! There actually is a lot of latency, but you don't even notice it when you're playing. The only reason I know there is any latency is because I was playing live and my in-ear-monitors gave out, and all I could hear was drums. I was playing by the feel of the strings instead of the sound of my notes, on the replay every note was just a little late. But as long as you can hear your notes the latency is a non-factor. Think about people who use three strymon pedals and maybe a couple other digital effects on a piecemeal board... Or all the ADA conversions associated with your connection to the house... It's really not something that even gets noticed in real world use.

[@thomasvoglreiter7772]

@@BillySoundFarm Some latency is ok/normal and different people can tolerate different amounts, but I think most people will notice and struggle with latencies well above 15-20ms... 24ms is like standing 8m/26ft away from your amp… if you factor in another AD/DA roundtrip from a digital mixer for monitor foldback its more like 30ms overall latency (10meter/32ft). You can easily simulate the feel and effects on your computer, just change the buffer size from anything below 128 to 1024 or more. Clearly noticeable, playing feels very detached from your actual picking. For some kinds of music or playing styles you can get used to this ’sailing’ feeling and do just fine, but its a very slippery slope because you mess up your sense of timing and will run into huge problems if you ever switch to a setup with considerable less latency. You will always be ahead of the drums because you were used to playing earlier to compensate for the huge latency. Strymon and many other digital pedals use an analog dry-through path so only the wet signal is delayed which is fine (like a little fixed pre-delay on a reverb).

[@BillySoundFarm]

@@thomasvoglreiter7772 I didn't know about the dry through path on the Strymon stuff. I'm going to use that as excuse to treat myself to some new pedals one day, I can already feel it coming on 🤣. ...I'm definitely compensating for the latency, but I didn't know I was doing it until that one day I had to play by feel. It just happens naturally, but I have noticed that I have to keep really sharp with timing when playing live. The latency is probably why. ...I think if I did that thing you mentioned with the computer it would be bad for me. The reason the latency isn't a problem is because I don't notice it's happening and the compensation happens without me thinking about it. If I explore the issue too much I might start noticing it and then I it would ruin it for me.

[@blackdogsheep5631]

Throw in a Variax input (which I use) and you might be on to something. Till then my Firehawk is where I'm at.

[@BillySoundFarm]

I have a hankering to try a variax

[@blackdogsheep5631]

@@BillySoundFarm They are so useful if you play in a cover band where there is different tunings, acoustic and occasional the sitar. As in Anywhere I Roam from Metallica. I love my Shurken.

[@MattLawhonMusic]

I have a Helix megaboard and have thought about going this way to create more space on my board. However, the routing combinations are pretty limited in comparison. One of my main patches on my helix literally has a full 16 blocks on one DSP chain (FX loops, compression, delays, pitch effects, reverbs) and I know that sounds crazy, but trust me, I use every bit of it. I could never recreate that type of scenario using this option. Not to mention you can’t use HX edit on both units simultaneously unless you have two computers.

[@BillySoundFarm]

That's awesome that you're using 'all of the buffalo' with your Helix DSP! Theoretically you could spread that across the Stomp and FX unit because they add up to the same amount of DSP, but you wouldn't be able to do it in 4-cable because that method generates two more blocks (the FX Loop in each unit to pass it to the other unit). Also 4-cable would leave you only one FX loop left to work with on the HX Effects, and none on the stomp. ...But you CAN use two instances of HX Edit on one computer! I do it all the time. Out of the box you had to switch between them with some tab or menu, but I changed something in the settings to put them in different windows. So when I am using the editor(s), the HX Effects is in the top half of my screen and the Stomp is in the bottom half. But I think you have reason enough to stick with what you got.

[@fabianvasquezjr8852]

what about hx stomp with the helix rack? I cant find shit for video's of anyone doing this its freaking frustrating!!

[@BillySoundFarm]

I'm not sure why you'd need an HX stomp with a helix rack... You mean to use the HX stomp as a controller If you didn't have the floor controller to go with the rack unit?

[@BillySoundFarm]

I really am curious what you're trying to do there... using a Stomp as a midi-controller for a Helix Rack? If that's what you're doing let me know and I'll make a video on how I'd do that. REPLY

[@MrCgar18]

sorry i had this but i still got a helix lt,the price is equal to LT

[@BillySoundFarm]

I looked into that but the LT not having the scribble strips is a dealbreaker for me. I run snapshot mode all the time and I name each snapshot for the parts of the songs (Verses, Chrous, etc.). Also I don't like something that big, and I also like being able to use the parts for other things. But there's certainly nothing wrong with the Helix LT. How do you tote it around? Did you buy that special backpack?

[@MrCgar18]

@@BillySoundFarm yeah i got it with the backpack itwas a sale got it for free.I like the units but i felt like i was missing alot and i was the dsp alone inlt i good so thas why i got the lt. the hx effects is great with a tonex or nux amp academy or anything that has a few decent amps but no effects.

[@kenwagner5667]

PTL

[@TruffulaTreeGTR]

This is so ridiculous. I understand what you're after here, but just get a helix. You totally lost me when you start stuffing your rig into a grocery bag. Of course, the flexibility of treating to stomp as one of your "amps" can be practical; but in this case, the helix does the same thing. You plug in an IEC & inst cable and you're done. Helix has Routing capabilities, 4 loops, UI ease, mic pre.

[@BillySoundFarm]

Thank you so much! The fact that the thing you couldn't get past was the grocery bag made my whole morning. You are a friend of mine, and welcome here anytime. ...You're correct that I could swap amps with the Helix just as well with the FX loops. I've already thought about how I would do that and set it up. And it's true that some things would be simpler with the Helix, particularly cabling. ...The truth is I wanted to buy a Helix. Let's run a thought experiment... "Does Billy want to buy more guitar toys?"... Yes. Unequivocally yes. ...But there's a dealbreaker for me in the fact that I can't put the Helix on my desk, and therefore I would not be able to sell my Stomp. I know its weird, but the thought of having a stomp and a helix bothers me, like some kind of wasteful redundancy. I don't want a Helix if it doesn't preclude my needing a stomp. So I figured out what i could buy in addition to my stomp, that I could put together with my stomp, to give me everything I would need from the Helix. And this does that for me, and more.