Secrets to Accurate Land Navigation

A NEW topic I have never seen discussed to make your travel over distance more accurate for land navigation

[@terryqueen3233]

trigonometry! being a land surveyor I already know this but you're exactly right there's not anyone that I know of that's teaching this in their navigational teachings. like I said I was a land surveyor so I already know this but not everyone was a land surveyor or is a land surveyor. excellent video Dave I'm glad someone finally brought this up. that's what I'm trying to teach my grandson about navigation right now as a matter of fact. thanks for the video Dave. keep ye powder dry

[@etstockbridge3048]

Excellent point. But rather than using square roots (i.e., Pythagorean’s Theorem), it would be simpler to determine the average slope over a given distance, and then use a table that has the multiplier factor calculated for that slope. In your example, if you know that the slope of your trail is 150 meters rise over 320 meters run (or 0.468, which by the way is a 25 degree slope), the multiplier factor would be 1.10 as you have calculated, and your actual distance would be 1.1 x 320m, or 353m. If you put your slope table in your nav book, with a range of typical slopes, once you have determined your slope (rise over run), it would be easy to determine the multiplier factor from the table for that slope, and then determine actual distance traveled with simple multiplication (run distance x factor). Note, you may not need to make this calculation for slopes of less than 0.2 (where the adjustment would be less than 1%). So the adjustment table could cover slopes over 0.2 (11 degrees) up to say a slope of 1.0 (45 degrees). To build that table, you can use your square root calculation, or you can use tangent and cosine tables if you are comfortable with those functions.

[@mountainmonkey1984]

In all the years I have been hiking, backpacking, and wandering in the wilderness, I never thought about this.

[@AdamsJon]

This is the only video I have seen that deals with this issue in land nav. Great content!

[@henryslab]

The only video that includes the slope. Thank you so much

[@bjbackitis]

My father, a 1950's era Marine, taught me this when I was growing up. Haven't seen anyone else do it until now.

[@Ben-ie9ud]

You could also create a key to easily convert map distance and percentage grade to walking distance. Grade Run:Rise Multiplier 5% 20:1 1.001x 10% 10:1 1.005x 15% 20:3 1.011x 20% 5:1 1.020x 25% 4:1 1.031x 30% 10:3 1.044x 35% 20:7 1.059x 40% 5:2 1.077x Example: 1000m map distance at a 15% grade * 1.011 = 1011m walking distance

[@Toastification]

That’s awesome. So much easier, thank you

[@joshiahsmall8941]

I always thought of that as terrain variance. Glad you mathed it out in a video.

[@konohaninja1985]

Thank You for all the free knowing based on your experiences in life. Keep on keeping on bro! When I get the $ up I'm probably going to take your course.

[@vivianp5962]

Thank You 👍🏾

[@shawnadkins9467]

I think this is where terrain awareness comes in when you have a map.

[@craigvermillion8244]

Great video Dave. The visual helps cement the concept. Thanks and see you Thursday!

[@Jmlittle844]

Great video, Dave! I've never seen anyone go this in-depth regarding the increase in pace count because of slopes. Well done.

[@chrisfritz6720]

Thank you Dave, I've learned a lot over the years with you and your channel.

[@RobSummers993]

This is the applicable instruction video I needed for basic geometry in the 8th grade. THANK YOU!

[@prosdad6438]

Love this! Professor Dave teaching algebra to us meatheads...makes more sense when we're working on a practical problem. Thanks for this!

[@PokePackPioneers]

Thank you handsome!!!! Love the video getting ready for my first backpacking journey 🎉

[@davidlee8551]

Excellent ! Thank you.

[@_.IV._]

Dave, thank you for your work! 👍👍

[@811NJUtilityLocating]

Absolutely outstanding tutorial! 👍👍👍

[@arcanavoresmanavault2637]

I love Math as much as Bushcrafting. Thanks for the continual lessons Dave. Been your fan for years.

[@sallyreiffel2672]

Great info Dave. Thank you

[@fredflintstone6163]

I got used to using natural landscape as guides and rarely use compass I fo study s topo map in new territory first also never in a hurry to get anywhere and always ready to spend the night and return later

[@denisbelair8988]

Thanks Dave really good to know

[@wally6278]

Thank you for this video.. Your a great Guy/instructor..Thank you..

[@rickdrasch2804]

Dave, luv the way you explain things. Weather it's fire making, shelter's, cooking, anything you're teaching. You have a way to simply getting your points learned. Rick, Rochester NY.

[@haroldmiller6853]

Excellent advice for navigation thanks for sharing sir .

[@markfletcher5457]

Cool info. I'll be using some of this in the morning.

[@wormtownmedic]

I always wondered about this. Thanks for showing us.

[@mrkultra1655]

Thanks Dave

[@davidwright5580]

Thank you Dave this was awesome video

[@bmcoutdoor-bushcraftnaturalist]

Great very informative video.

[@ronin6939]

Dave, I essentially live outdoors in the Eastern woodlands and am studying your field guide to Trapping Gathering and Cooking in the wild. Fantastic guide. Thank you

[@hondomckee1555]

Awesome video. You're absolutely right! We were not taught this in Land Nav in the military. Would have been nice to know.

[@herbsmith6871]

Thank you! Another great lesson my friend 🤠

[@jeffprevost1575]

Awesome as always!

[@hiramhaji7813]

Great video

[@billcoffey8086]

Very good information

[@stoneinthefield1]

Great info. Now I need some Dirt Time to cement that info.

[@superdivemaster]

Great Class ...

[@wheelsinmotion91]

Hey, Dave! Love everything you do/teach! Quick question: I am wheelchair-bound, and have been struggling with figuring out how to go about figuring my own pace count. I have thought about maybe pushing off alternatively with each arm acting as each "foot-step"? How would you tackle this? Thanks again!

[@luanaewerling8883]

Obrigado Dave por mais esse video, você sabe muito. Fã aqui do Brasil. 👍👍👍👍

[@azimuth4850]

Good to know! thank you

[@AlexWander]

Great video brother!

Dave already at the beginning of the video you got me ❤ by just saying you use metric system

[@edsonsoares5761]

Tanks !

[@NickFrom1228]

Another factor affecting pace length: Attitude/Morale/etc. A person that is only 2 miles from a destination may be thinking "I'm almost there. Lets bang this out and get some sleep" and may increase his paces length. Similarly, someone thinking "Oh man, I've got 2 more miles of this bs" will shorten his pace length. This is particularly evident in kids, but some adults will also do this. Glad to see this covered. I'm not saying its not covered somewhere but I've never seen it.

[@hummerbird3629]

You need more videos like this.

[@bryantdavis3710]

The only other person I have heard talk about that was Paul Kirtley!

[@benterwellen]

Superb info, ty

[@gator83261]

Good video.

[@emmengel]

It was really good lesson Dave. And I understand that you meant square not square root, some people might not have though. Sometimes being able to more accurately read a map and understand the terrain features to choose your route is more important than the pace count. Because of so many factors they can slow it down speed it up.

[@robertjohnson668]

Most trails I've been on zig zag up and down hillsides. Distance is really just a ballpark guess for me. Great info!

[@garywood702]

Good stuff!

[@MiClLC]

This is awesome to learn, Dave ain't no dummy!

[@coreyschultz7018]

Dam good info again friend.

[@user-by7bc1rc2n]

Great video. Square root is the best, most accurate method. If you want to avoid it (for easier math, say you don't have a phone/calculator) you can approximate it as such: ((7/8) * run) + (rise/2) In your example: 7/8 = 0.875 0.875 * 320 meters = 280 meters 150 meters / 2 = 75 meters 280+75 = 355 meters Just throwing that out there in case it helps someone.

[@DavidCanterbury]

Thanks for posting

[@Robert-vv6qp]

Professor Dave👍

[@terrycallaghan8269]

you also have to take account of the surface of the ground. You may have to take longer or shorter paces for example stepping over a obstacles things like that.

[@graymadden8707]

Good stuff Dave! Land Nav is definitely one of my weak points and is something that I need to work on before I go see you at the school (hopefully soon!) What would you say an acceptable margin of error would be in land nav?

[@desperadodeluxe2292]

This is the reason why you need to collect as much info as possible and this sort of lays a frame work for doing so.

[@Ali-rb1mq]

Its pothagreum theorum. Just say that. A² + B² = C² Great video and skill

[@internetcatfish]

I have no idea if it would matter over a distance you would be measuring by pace beads, but the same issue will arise from the curvature of the earth. The planet is a globe, which will make distances measured on a flat map slightly inaccurate. I don't know if it would be significant enough to worry about when traveling on foot, but it might be worth remembering.

[@bugoutadventures]

And I thought, "what good is geometry". I've experienced what you've pointed out On the distance. It only took 1 time for me to learn this lesson! However, I new the mechanics of it until this video! Thank you 😊. Do you have specialized classes for moderate disabled?

[@asmith7876]

As a child in Boy Scouts, 11 yrs old or so, they would give us a list of azimuths and distances. If you did it right there’d be a bag of doughnuts hanging in a tree 😂. In the Army we used our odometer on the APC-based gun system to track distance. Contour intervals are a real thing, “as the crow flies” is great…if you’re a crow! This video is Pythagoras approved!

[@toddnewsom8129]

Pythagorean Theorem - High School Trig Flashback! AAAAAAHHH!

[@Flashahol]

I think the main reason (other than competence level) no one mentions this is that it is more relevant to map-making. If you're orienteering, you're looking at time estimates, which are greatly affected by terrain type as well as all the other factors, yet you can't always illustrate that a path is rock hopping along the altitude line for miles (been there, done that and it was super fun, but a looong day...)

[@JimKernix]

That's the Pythagorean theorom - A squared + B squared = C squared where C is the diagonal/slope of the triangle. You should make sure to mention that it only works on right triangles, triangles with a 90 degree angle, so you ALWAYS have to split your overall shape into 2 right triangles. You could also use the website Geogrbra to do that before you leave on a trip, although that tool takes some time to learn.

[@jelicoe]

What if you counted up the contour lines from the bottom of the hill to the top of the hill, multiplied that by the contour line increment (or added them up), then look at the map scale bar to see how high that would be (X). Put the zero increment of your measuring device (ruler, scale, side of compass plate,) at the bottom of the hill (A) and swing your measuring device up until it is that (x) distance above the top of the hill way point (B). Then, position your eye directly over the point B, and read the increment that aligns with it. Place your scale flat on the map scale bar and interpret the distance of that measurement.

[@DavidCanterbury]

That would only factor rise not slope

[@paigeproffitt4488]

♡

[@daviddilley8310]

Great video. Have had a table of slope adjustments for distance for a while. It's all about preparation. Where it can get to be a real "pain in the A" is a long distance of undulating terrain. Also, there may well be smaller undulations under the contour interval that therefore show as "flat" on a map. Have found it more useful to create a "navlog" incorporating contours and distance to identify easily recognised waypoints and break up the journey into multiple smaller segments (the top of the first "map" rise, track turns east, creek crossing ... etc) of 500-750m each. This means about a dozen or so for a 5 km stretch. Don't need so much detail if you follow a known well marked trail. Smaller distances mean smaller errors, and a reset at each waypoint means errors do not accumulate. Also helps if you know your average speeds over different terrains and loads. "Cross check" with times. Similar considerations apply for aiming off. Let's say it's 1km to your target. If you do the geometry, then aiming off by 5 degrees east and walking 1 km will put you around 85m from the target which will now be about 90 degrees west of your direction of travel.

[@douglasdickinson7640]

Thankyou Mr Canterbury for this upload. I recently just started watching your channel and I like your content...

[@rickdrasch2804]

The shortest distance between A & B is a straight line.

[@4mytht]

I guess I owe my math teacher an apology. 😁

[@Recklooseranch]

In the army we learned pace method. I use a technique where I use elevation and terrain. However I can memorize multiple maps. I have yet to use a compass. I witness how easy it is to get turned around by following ridges. I avoid bog areas generally. I follow moose trails. I do not count paces... But what feels like 7km or a few miles...will be felt in the toes.legs and butt. You can barely walk hitting 15 to 30 kms

[@septor-og6hi]

How do you figure out what the rise and the slope are from your map

[@David_Rafuse]

If you have a topographic map with elevation contours, you determine the elevations at Points A, B, etc, then calculate the elevation difference. That's your Rise (Side A of your triangle). Then measure the horizontal straight line distance on your map; that's your Run (Side B of your triangle). From there, using Pythagoras, you can determine length of Side C, the hypotenuse. Contrary to what Dave said, that side is not the 'slope'; slope is the angle between Sides B and C. The length of Side C is what we in the military would call 'Slant Range'; it's used in everything from antisubmarine warfare in the navy, to air-ground bombing in the air force, to artillery fire in the army.

[@marksolum1794]

Is there a reason a pace is two steps instead of one or is it just a convention? If it was one step would you run out of pace beads?

[@donaldeugenealford4080]

👍🇺🇸

[@piepkwiep4312]

And the angle : 150/320 inv tan = 25.11

[@cscmolts77]

💖💖👀👂

[@OzMan9989]

For those who scoff, if you’re 70-80 meters off in think woodland, you will miss your destination. If you can’t see due to thick woodland, then you are now effectively lost.

[@nikpark6033]

Common sense is not so common brother. Great breakdown

[@kumbackquatsta]

see geometry class does actually matter in life

[@adv4805]

Why can't you do rise over run? Rise/run. It's how carpenter caculate how long a board needs to be for a roof rafter.

[@patricktatum786]

I found this very interesting it really makes you take math more seriously. Mr. Dave you really should write a book on this series of navigational.

[@davehumpleby3440]

Pythagoras theorem. Basic, Secondary school maths but important for improving accuracy nonetheless. I've even used this (flipped horizontally) before on water to calculate paddling distances between islands in conjuction with triangulation. Useful stuff.

[@JJ-JOHNSON]

Endurance Room (Jessie) put out a few great videos on this, this week, he was a student of yours.

[@edsonsoares5761]

Faz favor de colocar a legenda David aqui é Brasil e tu tem muitos seguidores !

[@tristenweems5734]

These things should be taught in 5th grade. Hell maybe even 3rd grade. I could think of 100s of things we learned in school where this would have been more useful

[@terryqueen3233]

they're already teaching that in a simple form in my grandson's School in the third grade

[@i_am_a_freespirit]

I am as lost as before...I get lost even in my woods WITHOUT the bread Crumbs 🥴🤣

[@arcanavoresmanavault2637]

A 21st century digital boi would say, "Why do I need to do this when I have my GPS?" What happens when the battery dies?

[@David_Rafuse]

Isn't that the title of a song? 😏

[@amateurshooter6054]

Thanks Dave

[@chriso9724]

Thanks Dave