Secrets to Metallica's Black Album Rhythm Tone

(NOTE: I made a couple of errors in terms of gear accuracy at the end of the video, but some people in the comments corrected them. So just take note of that.)
Many metal guitar gear videos on KZbin will try to explain how get the black album tone, but in reality it is far a more complex, technical, *expensive, precise and ahead of its time, than most of these videos describe. And many miss out of many details. its not just a SM57 on a mesa cab with a scooped high mesa amps and EMGs. That sound is probably worth 100k in gear.
Note: the isolated tracks are just taken off youtube and not even close full quality.
Also Bob Rock mentioned that James triple-tracked the rhythm tones. (I assume that means left 100%, right 100% and mono/center)
Enjoy Thanks! If you are liking and subscribing, You are Cool!!

[@AJDOLDCHANNELARCHIVE]

Without a doubt, the best heavy rhythm guitar tone of all time, in my opinion.

[@jye_24]

I just love how everyone was literally silent listening to Bob very cool and respectful, shows how much they care the legendary music

[@amoskamil6823]

For once. They hardly talk about gear an amp stuff. Its turned into a hour of blabber. Hey what yoi up to hows the kids crap

[@vixercrouchrichter]

THANK YOU BOB ROCK AND RANDY STAUB FOR HELPING METALLICA CREATING A MASTERPIECE.

[@__-bc4bs]

Back when they put heck of alot of effort into making a record sound not just average but great. Terry Date and Bob Rock, real producers.

[@mattvdh]

Yeah everything really came together on that album and the early 90s in general was smash album after smash album

[@nicoraba]

Like it or not, the magic of the Black Album is that the sound aged vero well, you listen to it today and doesn't sound like a 30 yo album.

[@jugularmusic]

Bob Rock is legend. National treasure for us Canadians!

[@fernandoreynaaguilar1438]

I thought it was Jim Carrey! Or Dan Aykroyd maybe...

[@agrowax]

I really underestimated the guy. Obviously a phenomenal engineer.... but I never knew of all his punk history. Subhumans, DOA....legit

[@homersimpson8414]

Metallica landed in Winnipeg when they first went to America. And Bob Rock was at the airport waving at them.

[@SupervisorJimLahey]

Winnipeg in America? You homer

[@homersimpson8414]

@@SupervisorJimLahey Oh. Sorry My fault. It was the Beatles.

[@sonicdoomofficial9200]

This is badass! So cool if Bob to go into such depth in this!

[@edgarallandoh1485]

Thanks for this vid! Bob Rock is one of the great music engineers/producers of all time. Love the sound of his recordings at that time.

[@mattvdh]

100%

[@TeeDub96]

I love this video dude. I've been into this tone for years and years and always try to get close and never seem to be able to get all of it's nuances in one tone. Sometimes I can get that low end guttural sound but then the high end isn't right. Then it's the other way around and so on. I didn't know this video interview existed and this is the time of stuff I can watch over and over. Thanks man!

[@mattvdh]

Its an extremely rich and complex tone man! Glad you found it useful brother :-)

[@tommilitello198]

It sounds different from day to day,you can have your amp dialed in perfect and all of the sudden it’s sounds terrible the next day,that’s why nobody is ever content

[@honigdachs.]

I actually have a similar approach using amp sims. Mark IIc++ left and right and a Marshall of a Friedman straight down the middle at lower volume for that midrange it needs. MESA Straight 4x12s and Marshall 1960 cabs. I like the 57 and 421, but a Royer 121s as well, it helps taming that nasty top end of the Boogies a bit. Absolutely nuts what we can do with plugins today. They approximate something that would otherwise cost you the asking price of a good mid-range car. I also discovered that using a compression pedal in front helps to get it nice and tight and chuggy, and more so than an overdrive like a TS. First time I see anyone claim them using any kind of compression on the black album guitar tone, not sure they really did that, but it does work for me.

[@mtaco111]

Those photos you have of James rig in the studio are from Justice, not the Black Album, as all his rig was on the other side of the control room. also we used a C12 for the room mic not a 87

[@DimeDCSGO]

Were you a part of the production? Thanks for the clarification

[@mtaco111]

@@DimeDCSGO yes

[@raydolinger1980]

Black album sound was absolutely excellent.. :) My fav guitar drum, bass sound ever ....

[@thromboid]

Great stuff, thank you! That guitar tone is absolutely iconic and magical - aggressive, complex, brutal, yet somehow tasteful and smooth for what it is. I remember hearing those palm mutes on Enter Sandman when it came out and thinking "what IS *THAT*?!". Let's not forget also Randy Staub's use of the SRS Labs "Wow Thing" box for widening the image and maybe some bass enhancement. I remember reading that they also held off using compression on James's guitar tracks as it messed with his preferred tone, which makes sense to me because those chugs take a lot of amplitude to hit properly.

[@thromboid]

They referred to that third rhythm track as "The Thickener" on the making-of video - you can hear them come in one at a time after the breakdown in "Holier Than Thou".

[@mattvdh]

Great observation, I will check out that track. That's pretty definitive proof that it's exactly triple tracked, no more or less.

[@mattvdh]

It's one of the only times in history that the 'gonk gonk' of the Mark has been properly captured.

[@thromboid]

Sounds to me like the hardest thing to imitate (apart from the ability of James as a player!) is building an entire room full of (presumably reflective) plywood panels and then spending days tweaking mic positions until you get it Just Right. :)

[@mattvdh]

Ya the room itself is a huge component. They had some baffles going on as well on certain angles. They need to make a documentary on how they recorded the guitars and drums and go fully in depth.

[@JacksonCharvelRULE]

You always see these social media guys playing Metallica "technically flawless" but I call them all Internet Quaff Boys because they all are lacking one main thing and that's James aggressive right-hand dynamics...

[@necroticpoison]

I've always thought it had a compressed gain structure unlike any amps, and not post-mic comp. The compressor pedal on top of an 81 explains it, and the room mic blend would be making the sound more 3D/normally compressed, too. Best tone imo, still hasn't been beaten. I think people have been stuck on the 57 oversized for too long and not made the drastic moves needed to get to new, absolutely undeniably killer tones.

[@T82486]

Bob Rock one of my favorite producers and one of the main reasons why do music. The Black Album shapes my artistry 🙏🏿

[@ridenar1456]

Metallica hasn't had a produced on the last 3 albums, they had an engineer, and it shows. Greg just nods along. All the new songs sound the same.

[@DimeDCSGO]

Agreed. There is 0 life to their sound now and it's sad. I bet I would actually listen to new metallica if it had black album or garage inc levels of production

[@mayorofthenonsense]

Wow. I always thought they must have been using a light chorus type effect or something to get that sound. That 'chug' or 'crunch' or whatever you want to call it, always sounded super clean to me, like a stereo effect or something. I've never heard it anywhere else - the dirty mids and highs are always present.

[@mattvdh]

Ya it's just many guitar layers with the room mic as well

[@mordomaniac]

The Bass had Chorus on it

[@psymon1981]

No one underestimates that tone...

[@cameroncole3833]

Was actually the Marshall 1960BV cabs with original voices ‘Marshall Vintage by Celestion’ speaker (the first patented V30) The best Vintage 30 IMO.

[@nickstalker3254]

What the fuck does Bob rock know. Lol. Goof.

[@endoffate5475]

They way i think of this tone is so spongy, super crunchy yet not harsh at all.

[@MrBikboi]

Bob rock BALLIN with the geriatric style seat covers

[@MetaITurtle]

Metallica are tone kings 🔥

[@mattvdh]

Undefeated champs...and they barely ever talk about gear. Even a few days ago on Howard Stern they were showing some guitars and the tone was insanely awesome.

[@109acepilot]

@@mattvdh Fractal Audio

[@mattvdh]

Ya they don't sound nearly as good as the old triaxis rig

[@109acepilot]

@@mattvdh the Triaxis rig was what they used for LOAD/RELOAD ?

[@zacinnc78]

@@mattvdh they like to keep things secret and act nonchalant but its a whole labratory experiment like kfc orginal recipe lol

[@lovecraftmusic8717]

Explain for a non anglophone, please: Boss cs1 as a boost then?How did the Marshall was exactly used/mixed?

[@Durkhead]

Why is it so hard to get Lars drums to sound like that again?

[@blacksmithhammerhandle]

Because Gregg Bissonette tracked the drums(rumor has it)

[@Bigmouthstrikes82]

You forgot to mention the diamonds played that add to the sound.

[@KendoSwordsman]

I'd love to be able to make a record in that way. Great room, great ears, time to tinker with the gear..

[@ParentsNightIn]

Probably my favorite guitar tone of all time

[@endoffate5475]

Mine to but whats intresting is that this tone wont really work for other stuff.. It tallored made for these songs. (more slow groove, heavy songs).

[@chris.bradshaw]

People also forget that Randy staub also potentially used some of his tricks. (Wow thing)

[@peanutbutterisfu]

I spent 4 days getting a guitar tone for the last album I did. Tired every guitar we could get our hands on then the couple best guitars we played with different strings then I already had my amplifier picked out but tried 3 different cabs with every different mic and different mic placements then dialing in the amp then picking a simulated guitar tone to blend in, I recorded a guitar direct in and also had it going to the amp so the direct in was another channel so I could use a simulated guitar amp as well. So just the left side was this simulated guitar then the live amp had 2 mics on the can plus a room mic so 3 tracks of the live amp and one simulated track so left side we had 4 guitar tracks and right side also so 8 tracks for the distorted rhythms then I played another live amp stereo down the middle of a cleaner tone it was a huge thick warm tone and all of this together made a massive very full sound. Everyone thought I was crazy and the simulated tone would phase and be thin because it was the same recording but it was a different tone so it just filled in areas that the live amp didn’t and when I said I was gonna add a clean tone they thought I was crazy and the room mic everyone said it’s pointless but I said look if it sounds bad we can delete it but if we don’t record it we have nothing and we didn’t have the room mic loud but it added to the tone. My band mates were mad at first thinking I was wasting expensive studio time but when I recorded the first song everyone was like wow ur right this is amazing.

[@Bls-of1ld]

Lets hear it

[@blacksmithhammerhandle]

In the same interview at around 1:57:00 Bob states that James Hetfield’s rig for that album was Mesa Boogie MK III with an ADA Graphic Eq in the effects loop. Along with his Jose modded Marshall. Better do a new video

[@pickmeasinner]

All you have to do is watch the "a year and a half in the life of...." The recording of that album was painstaking. The amount of thought, experimentation and deliberation that went into that whole process is plain to see. I bought part one and two on VHS as a kid and watched them obsessively!

[@StateOfMercury]

I dont recall saying that its just a 57 on v30 with a mesa and EMG

[@Tomcat82]

What source do you have for the Boss CS-1 being used on TBA's heavy rhythm tracks? I've seen a photo of a CS-1 with a Sweet Silence sticker on it sitting on top of his C++ (presumably taken during the MOP studio sessions), but this is the first I've heard the claim that a CS-1 was part of the tone on TBA.

[@GreatOne0815]

Can Metallica just get Bob Rock or Flemming Rasmussen back to get the sound from back then? The current sound is just not "metal"(lica) enough.

[@109acepilot]

Cool vid man, I agree with your statement. Fortunately, we live now in a time where most modern plug-ins will get you very close to the tones you’re after. Without having to burn $100,000 to buy the expensive vintage equipment.

[@mattvdh]

Thanks man...Well 100k worth of gear is still a 100k worth of gear. Getting sort of close is still not exactly the sound they achieved. If you want to use plugins, you won't come close to actual black album sound unfortunately. It requires very specific tools to get it right.

[@BarnyardTheSilverback]

​@@mattvdh Glenn Fricker of Spectre Sound Studios might be up for that challenge

[@mattvdh]

He doesn't have the same level of gear or talent as Bob Rock to be frank

[@JoelCSabo]

That was enlightening.

[@sheldonswan45]

In the same interview Bob says it was a Mark III, but maybe he was mistaken.

[@Tomcat82]

My bet is that he was mistaken. He also specifically mentioned that the Mesa in question was from James's standard rig at the time, and all available photographic and video evidence shows his rig to have a Mark IIC+, and that includes the footage from the A Year And A Half documentary. Never once has a Mark III ever appeared in James's rig, at least not to my knowledge. You know who did play a Mark III though? John Sykes, Bob Rock's favorite guitar player that he ever worked with.

[@mattvdh]

He's recorded a huge amount of bands so can't blame the guy for slipping on a few details when he doesn't have any notes with him

[@Tomcat82]

@@mattvdh Of course. Not knocking the guy at all. Totally understandable mistake. By the way, what was your source for the Boss CS-1 being used on TBA?

[@Abdullah_Studio1]

This is the one of the best Albums of all time 🔥 do u have any ideas of how to get that clean tones of the Black album ?

[@mattvdh]

Roland Jazz chorus

[@Abdullah_Studio1]

@@mattvdh i think they add also electric acoustic in nothing else matter with chorus and very light phaser maybe for some stereo and widening effect 🤔

[@dantredogborsa7048]

I can say for sure there was a Mark IV involved too for some songs

[@BobCob-ug3el]

Which ones in particular?

[@dantredogborsa7048]

@BobCob-ug3el the heavy parts of Nothing Else Matters for sure and probably Holier Than Thou and Through the Never

[@dantredogborsa7048]

@BobCob-ug3el on the video recordings of the album you can see James plugged into a Mark IV while recording Nothing Else Matters

[@dantredogborsa7048]

@@BobCob-ug3el there's also a clip from a TV series about the recordings of the classics of rock on wich the band hear and discuss the demos of the black album, and James says it's a Mark IV

[@richthetrashpicker-upper5244]

Bob has his own sound it's not from the band it's from him

[@moller8]

”You know” - Bob Rock

[@alexkelly8131]

Bob " you know" rock

[@jea783]

Marc Huzansky amazing Lefty axes collection !

[@Izzy-fh8sr]

James used a compressor pedal? According to who?

[@jake13b]

very interesting. i found the live vids of writing of the last album had better guitar tone than the actual record. I am suspect to the cabinet. If it was a mesa cab it would have had to be the old one because the recto type cabs didn't come out until 1992.

[@vixercrouchrichter]

BOB ROCK DOESN'T AGE. LOOK AT HIM. HE STILL LOOKS LIKE FROM 1991 OR 2004?

[@mattvdh]

What a beautiful man eh

[@vixercrouchrichter]

@@mattvdh I TOTALLY AGREE

[@muriloninja]

5:35 "It was all about doing the work. Spending the time getting everything right"! Yep! That is something they haven't done in 25yrs! They are unwilling to put any real effort in and it shows big time. His guitar tone sucks ass! smh!

[@mattvdh]

Yeah I don't know why they couldn't repeat the same production formula to their newer albums. Load actually has an even better guitar tone but the songs are super boring and stale

[@Churro_Flaminguez]

You must have missed the part where Bob The Producer explained that James the Musician told him what kind of sound he wanted, and it was the producer's job to spend a week moving amps around in a studio while trying out mics, amps & cabs, etc. to finesse that sound. In other words, it's the producer's job. Not the artist unless they are also well-versed in production.

[@muriloninja]

@@mattvdh They put a lot of effort into the guitar tone, production, and mix. I find Load/Reload to be underrated in several regards but the #1 is what I just mentioned, they sound great! Now take that and slap it on Death Magnetic and holy shit!

[@BarnyardTheSilverback]

Someone should tag Glenn Fricker in this and see if he can replicate the tone in his studio

[@VapnFagan]

Glenn is tone deaf. The man cant even hear a difference between amps and guitar pickups.

[@mattvdh]

Ya he's got lead leads for guitar playing and tin ears for distinguishing good and bad tones. and it's hard to trust his advice because he is either trolling for views or shilling a product he doesn't actually use

[@MaximusAdonicus]

@@VapnFagan Lol. You sound like a guy who has spent TONS on expensive gear and now can't live with the fact that most of that gear makes next to no difference to the tone apart from the cab! And yes, there are differences in amps and (some) pickups, but it depends on what u are comparing with... I don't think Glenn has ever said there's no differences in amps, lol?

[@gersonalves6041]

WRONG......At the same podcast Bob said that he used a Mesa Boogie MK III amp with a ADA MP1 preamp ...there's photos of james using this configuration on the studio .....

[@leonidaspapanikolaou3165]

Thanks.

[@gaboasis21]

Ill try to replicate this on a Boss GX100

[@homersimpson8414]

When does a producer what the the album he and the band are working on has to sound like?

[@AJDOLDCHANNELARCHIVE]

Often when the is a on but then sometimes, also can is.

[@Spidouz]

The cost of mics have nothing to do with getting a “rich” tone… Bob Rock could have used another mic and it would have cost $100 instead of $4,000, just like he still used a SM57. Why? Because it got the job done. They’re just tools, cost is irrelevant…

[@riseagainstfb]

What about peavey, bob

[@ozman6602]

Not saying Metallica's tone is simple but I can find their tone isn't overly difficult tone I can't seem to tone into like the artist is Randy Rhoads which he used a Marshall amp with MXR pedals just can't get it close but not to my liking Metallica obviously isn't exact but crank the distortion scoop the mids bass around 6 o'clock and rock n Roll but I'm usually not real into sounding and playing just like the artist except I'm kinda on a mission to nailing Randys tone maybe because he's why I started playing or it's just difficult for me to nail. Off topic of the video I know it's about Metallica's tone.

[@nebularain3338]

Metallica's album guitar tone hasn't been good since Garage Inc. Greg Fidelman gives them this very spiky tone on the last 3 albums and it doesn't work IMO. Those harsh high are unappealing next to the smooth Black Album tone. They should go back to Bob Rock and Randy Staub.

[@honigdachs.]

I tend to somewhat disagree man. The current tone I think is less Fidelman, but more James really being about punch and definition these days rather than that smooth, liquidy envelope. It did take me some time to get used to it, but the way how especially the chords sound - extremely clear, big and with fantastic string separation - blows me away. That really comes through on the new record. You don't usually hear that in metal. On the other side of the spectrum, I do absolutely love the tone on Load as well. It's darker, and that's largely the Eb tuning, but it has all kinds of tasty, chunky texture in the mids, so good. I also really like the raw tone on the Mercyful Fate medley.

[@bigfarting]

Yeah, the tone choice is 100 percent James. It sounds pretty much identical live. I don't like it either

[@Justice_Hammer]

0:07 Never seen anyone say that until you just did

[@luciferdzhugashvili]

Have you ever used karate in a real life situation?

[@karljellema3802]

Pretty sure they were Marshall cabs with v30s.🤷🏼‍♂️

[@briansmith2125]

The guitars James used then would have been a combo of the EET FUK , and the FUK EM UP MX220's, and his MORE BEER and SO FUCKING WHAT 1984 Alder bodied Gibson Explorers. All of them had EMG 81/60 combos. He was working with ESP on the MX250's during that studio time on getting the thinner and smaller bodied ("less loggy") that were seen later in the black album tours. Bob Rock owns the slate gray FUK EM UP from James now.

[@dilloinitaliano]

I know Mesa Boogie Mark II C+. Never heard of Mesa Boogie Mark II C++ (Double Plus)

[@Olysterz]

There's also at least three layers of guitar

[@mattvdh]

Some people say it's triple tracks per left and right side for rhythms but I think it was likely one hard panned right, one left and one minor/center. Bob was getting into it but dave sidetracked him and they didn't ask pertinent questions

[@BobCob-ug3el]

@@mattvdh Correct.

[@matthrdlick]

You know

[@dontanton7775]

How about you put the source video into the description if you basically just re-upload someone else's stuff? The least thing a decent person could do.

[@mattvdh]

I said in the video here's bob rock on tone talk. But Here ya go ya whiner. kzbin.info/www/bejne/b16zZqqpmNmLhrM&ab_channel=Tone-Talk

[@CrushingRiffsWreckords]

Seinheiser? Really? As far as i know, its Sennheiser, lol

[@mattvdh]

typo

[@metalyca88]

30,000th view!!

[@83442handle]

Metallica themselves can't even accurately replicate their tones from The Black Album lmao. As other pointed out in the comments there are various mistakes in this video description even coming from Bob himself. I've seen guitar techs who worked on albums not recall details correctly. Point is way too many factors at play. Lets just take the guitar cab for example. Not having a SPECIFIC year/model of a speaker along with the same cabinets can screw up the tone alone. Most people don't realize a Marshall cabinet 4x12 made in the past 30 year sounds nothing like a late 60's/early 70s Marshall cabinet. When these guys make albums they cycle through vintage gear all the time looking for the best sound. Even something as simplistic as Kurt Cobain's tones on Nevermind was actually done with a lot of expensive amps/cabinets. There was a good video on here with a guy trying to recreate the Nevermind tone and turns out he had to buy an extremely expensive/rare vintage Celestions from the early 70s to do it. Short story is the factory that made those speakers burnt down in the 70s and the specific formula was lost....look up "pulsonic speaker cones". They actually sound amazing and I've heard lots of demos showing the differences.

[@mattvdh]

I agree

[@Bassassassin502]

Speakers, mic type and mic placement. Thats all there is to tone once gain is introduced. None of those other items do much at all to change your tone.