Vaush Explains His Issue With Rising To Krystal's Face

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[@Valkron]

We can at least all agree that Destiny got destroyed in this debate

[@coupdq9race16]

TRUUUUUUUUU

[@cezarcatalin1406]

Destiny gets destroyed in every debate... even when he isn’t present, even when he’s alone !

[@gaulindidier5995]

Not really.

[@DosAleph]

@Li Stathis bernie bros bootlick crime bills

[@overtherenowaitthere]

@@cezarcatalin1406 the copium...its just too addicting.

[@HalinazDziecmi]

"I don't know how much being ant-establishment means if you're willing to drop all of it over an culture war issue" damn

[@TheBiggestSqueeze]

Republicans think they are anti establishment yet vote for a party that is very much establishment to the core.

[@paulweeldreyer7457]

In this case, the Establishment is pushing the anti-science narrative that biological sex isn't real. It ceases to be (only) a culture war issue when government starts writing laws that ignore the rights and interests of females.

[@SwiftySanders]

Damn! Vaush made that point.

[@Peter-qz3sn]

@@paulweeldreyer7457 yes the scientific consensus that sex and gender are different corelative concepts, the scientific consensus that agrees with the validity of trans identity, that science is anti-scientific, so anti scenrtific is science that doesn't kowtow to my dogmatic believes that invalidates trans identity.

[@vincentvalenhyde]

I know so many Americans are struggling to make ends meet even before this pandemic hit, but, but DR. SEUSS!! GINA CARANO!!! WAR ON CHRISTMAS!!!! MUH RIGHTS DANGNABIT!!!!! REEeeEeEeEEEE!!!!!!

[@ImperfectV01D]

I think the core disagreement between Krystal and Vaush is that, while Krystal tries to highlight the common ground between Left and Right populists, Vaush is skeptical that such common ground exists. He believes that (1) it's misleading to highlight agreement on _problems_ since only _solutions_ are actionable, and (2) while Right populists may _seem_ to agree with us on some economic issues, that agreement either (a) doesn't extend to solutions or (b) is contingent on us abandoning our positions on culture war social issues, something Vaush views as a trap (the Nazbol Vortex). To that point, Vaush sees what Krystal is doing as pushing us toward that trap.

[@thezfunk]

I think you make a great point. I have conservative friends and we agree on, like you said, all the problems. Well, mostly. They usually are outraged about some culture war issue that is so insignificant. Like the Republicans in Florida just passing the bill banning trans athletes or whatever. How many trans people are there in total and how many are competitive athletes? But that is a must pass legislation to them!? If we don't do something it will be a slippy slope where every male athlete will undergo a sex change to dominate in women's sports! Our infrastructure is crumbling all around us and any day you and I can get diagnosed with a health issue that bankrupts us but HOLY SHIT THE TRANS PEOPLE WILL RUIN SPORTS!

[@SaveTheHero210]

The Nazbol vortex isn't real. What happens more often is leftist keep supporting Democtrats with no reward rather than drifting so far left that they end up on the right.

[@fellinuxvi3541]

@@SaveTheHero210 This is an awful take. What happens more often is irrelevant in the face of much worse problems. To abandon these positions is to abandon principle and embrace regressive and authoritarian ways. If that's your view on the left, most people will be out, it will be much worse than catering to the Dems.

[@serialthrilliayahoo]

@@fellinuxvi3541 isnt that what we are asking of conservatives tho? This ultimately cuts both ways. We arent going to stop being fascist overnight even if we start killing each other over it. Its just the nice inclusive fascists lite vs. traditional racist fascists. There will never be a perfect solution, so I'm going to raise my kids right and make sure the have at least a fucking planet to live on thx.

[@fellinuxvi3541]

@@serialthrilliayahoo We are not fascist right now though, that's the point of being critical of rising fascism. I agree that you take the least bad option, but to me, that's liberals and Dems, not the populist right.

[@daysliveon]

How does Kyle still look like a boy that's dressed like a grown man for Halloween.

[@joegillian314]

I don't think the suit suits him very well, lol. But maybe I'm full of shit, and everyone else thinks it makes him look sexy...

[@KD-cj3ji]

@@joegillian314 no... You're absolutely correct

[@ronthorn3]

Looking young is definitely a great thing.

[@ja6975]

3 years late to this, but have you seen him now?! That’s Peter Pan syndrome, make my child trans as a toddler dope

[@rachelparker335]

​@@joegillian314See the problem with me is that I'm attracted to trashy people lol. "You look DISGUSTING!! That's pretty hot.." It's a fuckin' PROBLEM

[@loboru4641]

At a glance I read this as "Vaush Explains His Issue With Krystal's Face"

[@Kryojenix]

I've got to say I'm truly amazed at how wide Krystal's mouth opens when enunciating almost any vowels. That's my issue with Krystal's face. And I'm not saying it's a problem or objectionable in any way whatsoever. It's just a thing...

[@oblivionpro69]

Krystal’s face is perfection

[@colorbugoriginals4457]

Krystal's face helps soften the blow of the ugliness she has to report on. 💕

[@BatsAndBadgers]

Read it 10 times trying to figure out the sentence 🤣

[@colorbugoriginals4457]

@@Kryojenix that's actually a really great trait for a presenter, very clear annunciation and the correlating facial expressions are especially helpful addressing crowds, and for viewers with hearing or vision needs. Really clean, crisp, and professional.

[@jaimeogas]

I haven't seen Vaush before, but he looks like the real life version of the Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons.

[@heavysystemsinc.]

Vaush is based. And Comic Book Guy has a neckbeard and 5 o'clock shadow. Vaush's beard is a legit beard. In fact, if he shaved his beard off, there'd be another beard under there. Comic Book Guy's beard barely hides how much his neck jiggles when he turns his head too fast. I'm saying, "I get the impulse, but let's look a little closer before coming to a conclusion."

[@cptsketch13]

@@heavysystemsinc. could you blow the guy a little harder?

[@orangenostril]

@@cptsketch13 if only I could

[@jessew7565]

@@cptsketch13 all of us Vaush fans want to blow him

[@BrandoHuey23]

He sounds like comic book guy too

[@hellfish2309]

Kyle and Krystal: “Hello, Newman...”

[@sanguinesurfer]

😂🤣😂😂😂🤣😂🤣!!!!!

[@IAmTheBugInsideYou]

Vaush being Newman huh? Lol

[@RoyGBiv-lc8tv]

As a fan of Vaush, I still think this is accurate and hilarious.

[@JB-bc2ry]

@@umang95 Lol, Seinfeld isn't that old yet

[@skerdoo523]

This is fucking gold.

[@Powerful_TDFAM]

I know Krystal will most likely never see this, but it was so important to see someone not immediately give up the moment a conversation got tough. Because that discussion happened not just on their show, it happened on their JRE episode. It added so much value to their show that they did not agree on everything. It was a gut-check to the intellectual honesty of what they present themselves to be. And as a viewer, knowing they're not going to lie to me about what they think for ratings, I can believe what these people present. It was an immeasurably important moment to have that disagreement.

[@JmanGeezy]

Watching this conversation makes me realize I never want to watch cable news again. Independent media is where it’s at baby! Keep up the good work guys

[@angusmarch1066]

These are the guys MSM is afraid of. Thats why they suppress them. Stats show that the majority of media consumption comes from outside mainstream media, because one way or another leftists and right wingers have both come to the conclusion that MSM is a shield of the government.

[@jkrt8722]

Most independent media is cancer though, far worse than MSM.

[@giantsr1eva]

@@jkrt8722 The independent media also promotes democrats and republicans so it’s no different than cable news. An example of this would be when Joe Rogan said that young people don’t need to be vaccinated, both the cable and independent media joined together in condemning Joe Rogan.

[@JmanGeezy]

@Arthur Klages troll much

[@JmanGeezy]

@@giantsr1eva the major difference is lack of backing/ influence by big pharma and the military industrial complex, seen on full display in ALL MSM

[@voxextremos22]

We can all agree that this was a very civil dialogue

[@noahbirdrevolution]

Ikr... How dare they? Disgusting.

[@whatmeworry8472]

Civility is not a an important goal

[@mrlarvux]

Then on stream he talks about how Krystal is a fascist enabler

[@Preacher_.]

You should see the kinda smear job this dude's tried to lay on Krystal on his own channel...

[@55crusherman55]

Wow, three people who agree get along in a conversation 🤡🤡

[@MidTierVillain]

This is the most unexpected crossover, I thought this would never happen.

[@Odinsday]

They’ve wanted to talk to each other for awhile, they just never had the time.

[@Kalivermore925]

A couple lefties get together and talk shit ... yeah never saw that coming 🤣🤣

[@JohnCorley13]

@@Kalivermore925 I don't understand why people take vaush or destiny seriously at all. I heard destiny comparing himself to Sean Carroll and I was like I'm out. These guys are clowns. Entertaining tho. Decent rhetoric. Not a lot of substance as far as I can tell. Overrated thinkers

[@Kain5th]

@@JohnCorley13 who do you prefer to watch?

[@SRartz25]

@@JohnCorley13 don't compare vaush to destiny lmao

[@crosskunx]

Kyle staring off into the distance thinking "this is why I have a solo show"

[@elmerbeltshire7599]

We'll he does call himself an introvert after all

[@flaminggorilla909]

The fewest words said by Kyle in a productive video.

[@bernardosax]

the title does say it's krystal responding, so...

[@flaminggorilla909]

@@bernardosax I didn't mean it as a slight I thought it was funny to point out.

[@LinkRocks]

Kyle's a cool dude.

[@rubbercable]

Unfair. But funny.

[@Eralen00]

I actually respect him for keeping his mouth shut for most of it, he knows its not all about him

[@themeerkat6034]

I feel like in most of the KK&F clips I've seen Kyle jumps in impatiently and speaks over Krystal and sometimes the guests which sometimes turns me off from the podcast. This episode he showed a lot more patience and gave the others more time to speak, and I respect that he's trying to avoid the interrupting and speaking over others. Keep it up Kyle.

[@Engineer_Heathen]

Kyle is just so used to working by himself. He was brutal with interrupting when the show first started, but he's getting much better at it with every episode.

[@themeerkat6034]

@@Engineer_Heathen I also speculate that he’s been using stimulants recently (no judgement, i too use drugs, and he’s mentioned it b4), and I can say from experience that certain drugs will put you in a mood where you’ll just wanna talk and talk and talk. And since he was used to doing a solo show, like you mentioned, the drugs likely exacerbated his interrupting in this new environment. That said, showing restraint like he does in this clip is good and it shows that he’s making a conscious effort to be a good news host, and I respect that. I see myself a lot in Kyle, so I know that it can be difficult not to chime in when talking about important topics.

[@theMosen]

@@themeerkat6034 Well the parts Kyle clips for his show tend to be parts where he had a lot to say or a lot to ask. Kyle does sometimes push himself too much to the forefront, But it's not as bad as these clips might give you the impression. I would totally recommend watching or listening to full episodes. As someone who has been subbed to SecTalk since the black blanket background days, I was sceptical at first, be there's honestly never an uninteresting moment.

[@alexdflop]

@@theMosen Actually I'm a big fan of Kyle in general and I've listened to most full episodes of KK&F, and I 100% co-sign Meerkat's criticism here. It often comes off like Kyle's doing too much in the pod, though I agree with both the cause (he's used to going solo) and the idea that he's getting better as time goes on. I'd guess that people who identify more strongly with Krystal's rhetorical style feel more strongly about it, too.

[@Eralen00]

yeah he's been doing secular talk by himself for years, i don't ever recall him having a guest or doing interviews on that show. He has done a few appearances on mainstream news shows, and you pretty much _have to_ interrupt those guys, otherwise they'll just lie and smear you if you don't aggressively correct them or defend your position, as he explained in one of his videos from a long time ago

[@JackgarPrime]

It's still so crazy to actually see Vaush and Krystal having a conversation like this. I was never expecting that to happen in a million years. Vaush and Kyle, yes, but Krystal, I wasn't expecting.

[@undergroundman1993]

When I heard Shoe get interviewed I figured Vaush wouldn’t be far behind

[@Spithatruth]

They’re all extremely sensible

[@Dyljim]

Hopefully this opens up more opportunities for Vaush to be a guest on other shows. I imagine a big hurdle is demonstrating that you're a good guest to have on.

[@Sugarman96]

@@undergroundman1993 Hopefully the Vaush interview will eventually lead to a Hasan interview.

[@LouieV6]

@@Sugarman96 Hopefully. I’ve been waiting on those two to come together for years.

[@_.Dave._]

Kyle, what's it like having to put pants on to do a show?

[@uberXserial]

😂

[@rockduded8925]

Come on, we all know he has no legs.

[@obailemi]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@elmerbeltshire7599]

Holy hell he has legs?!?!?!

[@dimthecat9418]

I don’t get it

[@chrisgregg2092]

I can't believe this is actually happening.

[@sozialdemokrat4891]

As soon as vaush distances himself from destiny he gets on kyles show :D

[@CP-ir3ft]

me too for some reason i didn't expect this at all. proud of them.

[@FuckYoutube554]

@@sozialdemokrat4891 what happened with Destiny and Vaush?

[@oraz.]

Vaush is atrocious

[@Wahhh2276]

@@FuckKZbin554 Destiny became pretty childish and uncharitable towards Vaush and its come to the point that whenever they debate they both become pretty hyperbolic. Plus on Destiny stream where he reacts to Vausg saying he's done with Destiny he just laughs at all the things that he's done to Vaush, like getting be to try and dox Vaush etc.

[@user-Dumbunny]

As someone who watched Rising before subscribing to Vaush, I have to say that the Rising clips that Vaush watched were all among the 20% worst takes on Rising, because of course this is what chat would want him to discuss. In other words, Vaush's perception of Krystal and Saagar was strongly affected by selection bias.

[@antonioscendrategattico2302]

Absolutely true. Then again one might say that even if it's a small part of what they do, it's still concerning - just like it is when someone is a great guy but occasionally says some really bigoted shit.

[@PatrickOMulligan]

And they were not even bad. Vaush cannot listen to what is being said.

[@brandoncukrow4033]

That is true that there is some selection bias but that is generally what happens on the show to a lesser extent.

[@Cancellator5000]

@@PatrickOMulligan I think the worst thing was them downplaying Trump's tactic of spreading misinformation and conspiracies about the election results to try and incite a coup attempt to overthrow the election, which actually ended up happening. In retrospective it was wrong to believe that it would be successful, but there were tons of red flags and they covered it like it was just liberal hysteria. It certainly did seem like it was possible they could have stolen the election if there were just a dozen or so more conservative hacks in positions of power going along with whatever Trump wanted.

[@PatrickOMulligan]

@@Cancellator5000 coup lol. Did you watch all their coverage on it? Cause I did. As a liberal I think it was liberal hysteria. They did not downplay it, they accurately reported on it.

[@MayDayMei98]

Man, Vaush really thrashed Destiny in this debate.

[@Lackari]

Based name camarade.

[@SurgingSpirit]

Destiny is also a disgraced sc2 player for hitting on young girls from his streams. The fact he popped up in politics is nauseating to me.

[@alphaenemyplus8376]

so easy to do these days

[@sterd1149]

@Don Shepard Look mate, I have issues with Destiny too but that's not all of his political opinions. Or have you forgotten the thrashings he gave to people like Eric Stryker and other fascies/conservatives a few years back? He's not some strawman, he actually does know his shit.

[@Czarina888777]

Which debate? I see one on here from a few months ago.

[@dimthecat9418]

I see Vaush dressed up of this interview by putting on a unbutton shirt over his regular t-shirt

[@brendenpeterson5684]

That's basically how he always dresses

[@Necroskull388]

There are a number of reasons I respect Vaush, and not a single one of them is “his dress sense”. He’s, like, in the bottom 30% of men’s fashion. Bottom 60% on a good day.

[@666marquis]

Vaush is a dumb person's idea of a smart person. It's the radio announcer voice that puts his act over.....

[@dimthecat9418]

@@666marquis wow you’re pretentious

[@randysavage1011]

I appreciate anyone who shows up in person to defend themselves.

[@laurencewhite4809]

Vaush was too nice Krystal. Watch his videos about her and the rising where he honestly dissects her BS without him being concerned about offending her.

[@bustamoveorelse]

@@laurencewhite4809 You sound like a 12 year old

[@iammclovin1672]

Did you tune out her response to what her goal of the show was? And vaush himself admitting that it was a fair rebuttal ? The rising is just a bridge to get people to agree on popular issues. Kinda how msm media should be, right? They’re pretty much a Corp media outlet but actually bring on excellent guests from time to time.

[@GreyRock100]

What if they're your enemy?

[@iammclovin1672]

@@GreyRock100 who’s they?

[@darkfluid5004]

“Reading the title.” Finally, the long awaited moment has happened.

[@TurtleChad1]

A Turtle approves of this long awaited moment.

[@queeniegreengrass3513]

@@TurtleChad1 in life, birth, death and the soshellist turtle are forever constants

[@thedevilsadvocate8766]

"Our battle will be legendary." Did not disappoint

[@Preacher_.]

What.. All he did was agree with her and throw up strawmans... After bashing her relentlessly on his stream for things she didn't say or do.

[@TCt83067695]

Long awaited? It's so disappointing they didn't get an apology from him

[@kyliekulinski3856]

Destiny argued in bad faith in this debate

[@redacted_vombat5742]

@@yukiminami9202 destiny lost his mind

[@aka_ozymandias]

The Left needs more of this kind of debate and discourse among people who largely agree on everything

[@Scootercorn]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@CainEverest]

Yeah pretty much. As a leftist, the Democrats are basically undercover Republicans at this point

[@Cheesewiz247]

The left is kind of famous for disagreeing with each other though.

[@KyleS.1987]

Anybody who is as nice to Andy Ngo as Krystal was when he was on Rising is not on the 'left,' IMO.

[@keithremedy]

@@KyleS.1987 you’re not to bright are you

[@SomethingVISCID]

"Krystal Kyle" is a good name for craft vodka..... get on it.

[@wooww91619]

@sine moderamine we’ve got another shill for big seltzer 🚨🚨

[@SomethingVISCID]

@sine moderamine It prevents its own hangover!

[@cris471]

It would also be a good name for a progressive punk band 😊😊

[@cris471]

You are heaven sent !! This is the beginning of a legend !! Bigger than the Ramones and the Pistols 😂😂

[@nuclearcatbaby1131]

Grey Goose sounds like the fancy gourmet version of Toilet Duck

[@bird6691]

"Sagaar has plenty of cringe views" lol

[@pranays]

Sagaar is Tucker's house boy.

[@peterroberts4415]

Sagaar > Krystal

[@xxbrian69herxx88]

@@peterroberts4415 😂😂😂

[@tallking7777]

Sagaar is a f****** douchebag.

[@bw8973]

@@peterroberts4415 1000% Also, a giant pile of corn filled diarrhea > vaush

[@jcboyle82]

I LOVE this! The left needs more of this. The right is good at the “crossover events” and the left needs more of it! This is great!

[@MrFishateyokids]

Yes I cant wait til they interview Jimmy dore

[@redacted_vombat5742]

"Crossover event" remembering the Blair white/candace Owens incident on the rubin report

[@oraz.]

I'm just trying to imagine someone having positive feelings seeing vaush.

[@NotTrileon]

Vaush is not on the left. He is a grifter

[@LittleDesertFlower78]

Totally agree! 💯🎯🙌🏻 All 3 of them showed a remarkable amount of rself control, courtesy, and character in this exchange - & I fucking loved seeing that! Because the uncharitability, mean spiritedness, and smug self righteousness & rush to judgement (based on assumptions) that I see & encounter on social media can be incredibly disheartening sometimes.. So seeing 3 smart ppl w/ strongly held convictions & courage to express their views - even when they are critical - who can do so in a way that's honest, but not hateful or derisive.. That was really nice to see. (And I hope their exchange can serve as a positive example to some ppl, showing that its possible to express criticism, disagreement, AND also be decent & show respect to another person with whom you disagree on some things w/o compromusing any convictiona. Think it would be a better world if more ppl realized that its not necessary to be a f-ing dick, & talk shit to someone, simply because there are some views that you disagree on - especially if the other person is acting in good faith & is being civil. In that kind of situation there's jst no reason to come back at the other person w/ vitriol, denigrating them, & lobbing ad hom attacks, etc..And not only is it unnecessary & pointless, its often a counterproductive thing to do too.)

[@chriswatchingponies9877]

The guy is spot on at the end. About rightwing populists. They behave absolutely the same here in Europe.

[@h.l.malazan5782]

Krystal Ball gave the smallest support recognizing the full context of the storming of the capitol on January 8, and the insecure Justice Dem supporters constantly feel obligated to push back on it. "But storming the capitol is wrong, right? Right? Right?" How many times does she have to condemn the riot before the snowflakes will back off?

[@poltronafrau]

@@seculartalk2992 lmao

[@narrowstone5363]

@Jerry Sissom what'd they say?

[@AlanGarciaC.1093]

Wait... what did the Channel's account said? 👀

[@moejohnson2132]

As a right wing populist, it's cool, we don't like you either.

[@valiantcashcow]

What are kyle´s and Krystal´s position on Alden´s number?

[@why-even-try-brotendo]

Mine is too nuanced and convoluted for Hue Manns to understand.

[@ShivdevSingh]

lmao!

[@friendlypup5650]

Oh yeah, Alden’s number. I’ve heard of that... I think...

[@faulker2p]

What is that?

[@wublesmoop6125]

I wonder what they would do, if hypothetically, their plane crashed on an island...

[@dgemini2]

It's probably good that she didn't watch his content or I don't think she would have wanted to do this. Of course, Vausch was very civil here, but he was not at all civil on his show. I always felt like he had a fundamental misunderstanding of what she was trying to do. He said she was disingenuous, but I never felt that way. Some of his criticism was legit, but I never understood why he was so vicious in his tone. Anyway, fascinating moment to watch.

[@ricardobarahona3939]

Didn’t you watch the video where she downplayed the dangers of the right after the election, she said dems were fear mongering of a conservative riot when it did happen in Jan 6, (this is based on a take right after the election in November). He has every right to mad at her including times where she she has gaps on her coverage. He never downplayed her importance when it comes to expanding the Overton window on Rising but some bad takes she did.

[@DR-hy6is]

She makes it easier for the right to claim their false equivalency despite knowing better. That means she is arguing in bad faith. I do not care about her reasons. She is filth.

[@cptsketch13]

Because he's a clickbaiting neck beard pandering to an audience

[@idorandomstuff2478]

i think his biggest thing is that she doesn’t fight hard enough against thr weird narratives saagar tries to push (idk how to spell his name lol) and that just never ending cynicism without meaningful solutions, which means making entire segments on solutions not dropping in here and there “abolish the filabuster & elect bernie”, can lead ppl down rlly bad roads.

[@idorandomstuff2478]

@@cptsketch13 i mean he’s gotten way more calm over time plus his audience is currently malding in his twitter feed bc they wanted him to go harder on her & he didn’t, so i guess he isn’t pandering to them now?? yall weird

[@Mike_C-79]

I watched Rising regularly but I think their analysis was too skewed against Democrats because Krystal would criticize the Dem establishment because she's a lefty who cares about where the Democratic party has gone and Sagar would criticize the Dems because he's conservative. I think we need to see that criticism, but the Republican party deserves way more criticism than what Rising gave.

[@murk4552]

The Rising is owned by a billionaire in Murdoch's own class of friends. So that's unsurprising of them to not go in hard as much as to who they rely on for dollars and views.

[@Aging_Casually_Late_Gamer]

The Republicans ills are obvious. The dems ills arent obvious to dem loyalists. It needs to be pointed out more than the republicans.

[@goodpeople83]

100% correct

[@Jotakumon]

@@Aging_Casually_Late_Gamer They're obvious because we usually point them out constantly. But if we don't keep doing so, they might not be as obvious in the long term. The fact that so many people now hold the position that Dems and Reps are the same is alarming. They're the same on many issues, and they're diametrically opposed on others, such as how they broadly treat minorities.

[@cjr4516]

I totally disagree. They bashed trump and fox news at every chance they got. Maybe the dems needed some criticism too

[@Karlwasright]

Even when he's being respectful, he's being petulant.

[@harrisy98]

I never knew that the dynamic between these 3 would be so productive.

[@lurkingposter]

Good faith actors that agree on 99.99% of political issues have a productive discussion. What a surprise. 🙄

[@ChrisDeVera1982]

3 in a pod, no diversity. Let’s not confuse politeness with productivity

[@__foam]

“Vaush” and “productive” are oxymorons

[@westernartifact4163]

There's no one that Vaush could incessantly call a racist for an hour. Yes, in other words it was an enjoyable discourse.

[@nfb4027]

Vaush is a narcissistic idpol crypto-shitlib hipster clout-chasing troll - that just got a bigger platform to be one so he's on his best behavior.

[@mushroomsteve]

This was a good conversation, and it really got me to step back and reflect on my own attitudes a bit. Thanks for this.

[@johnb7046]

Watch it again and now look at Vaush through the lens of pretentiousness. You'll realize he's a fraud. Regardless, all the best to you. We must all reflect, youre right on that.

[@waltergrace565]

@@johnb7046 straight grifter

[@dwangnoderbora]

@@johnb7046 What about his argument do you think he wasn't qualified to argue?

[@infinitedm5396]

@@johnb7046 this is such a weird take. "Watch again but project intention and assumptions"

[@ball5942]

@@johnb7046 lol what

[@JokinJoe]

Unrelated but I love the backdrop and color theme of this show

[@indeedken]

Its so minty

[@Spongebrain97]

Squidward color

[@Juuk-D]

Old 70's pastel colors, there used to be cars and kitchens in this color lol or very similar

[@chuckwilliams6261]

I like that Kyle's jacket matched the set, and Krystal's dress matched the border.

[@lebowe6131]

It would be fun for them to bring on different historians to talk anything from.lenin to reagan

[@nicolasreyes2190]

Kyle seems to be suffering horribly when having to sit in silence there hahaha but I'm so glad he's managing to do it. I've seen Kyle's videos for almost a decade now and as lame as it sounds everyone who has seen someone for so long knows you develop a weird one sided relationship with the person and in this case I'm just so glad to see that he is learning to shut up and listen because he's so used to talking to himself for hours uninterrupted and that for sure has negative consequences.

[@_TehTJ_]

He worked pretty much solo, or at least presented solo, for so long I imagine there's some adjusting pain when it comes to learning how to co-host as opposed to host.

[@Luis-vx1tx]

I appreciate that Vaush and Krystal were good sports

[@Peasham]

Vaush wasn't a good sport, he wasn't honest about what he said about both of them.

[@robeson1231]

Krystal's an obvious grifter

[@Isaac-eg3um]

@@Peasham poop sock

[@saintsfearful]

@@robeson1231 really now? How?

[@aTron0018]

@@saintsfearful No specific evidence will ever be given by @Peasham , just vague gesturing. VDS.

[@Blah64]

Oh wow, so Krystal admits she did some soul searching after the blm stuff last year. I felt like there was a noticeable shift in how she handled disagreeing with Saager ever since the blm protests.

[@michaelr3583]

@CRT is anti White hatred Smash cultural marxism Really, who did they kill?

[@Aeluron]

The user name is really all you need to understand why

[@mrlarvux]

@CRT is anti White hatred Smash cultural marxism Lol

[@winterlif]

@CRT is anti White hatred Smash cultural marxism grow up

[@Kiljaedenas]

@CRT is anti White hatred Smash cultural marxism Prove that statement you dolt, and don't try upvoting your own comment to look cool.

[@bobkoshy7869]

Kyle is the best here.

[@robeson1231]

Kyle is never the best

[@Soren59]

@Vicks VaporRub nevern't

[@philhunt26]

Yeah. He was quiet.

[@hillaryclintondidnothingwrong]

Kyle didn't say anything.

[@therussiantrollnetwork7464]

He was the worst. He needs to leave his bubble.

[@traviswalkman7631]

Vaush is super annoying.

[@xtaintedx3l0vex]

This was better than expected. I'm definitely gonna listen to the full audio when it drops Saturday. Also I agree so hard with Vaush at the end there when he described talking to people and agreeing with them for up to 40 minutes before they flip in a nano second and go full fascist. It's so f*cking disturbing sometimes. We got a lot of work cut out for us in this world.

[@Peasham]

If he wasn't saying a year ago that everyone who disagrees with him should die that might even be something to take him seriously on.

[@Jimbles_Notronbo]

@Who else Hungry rn you're simply wrong. I don't know where you get that impression but it's incredibly uninformed

[@FormThisWay]

@@Peasham Citation needed

[@nyutrig]

@@Jimbles_Notronbo nah, hes right.

[@aisjay1204]

vaush agrees with fascists because *sotto voce* vaush is a fascist larping as a leftist

[@matts8708]

Vaush is a little more bold and his critique more brutal when's he not saying it to her face.

[@devonreeves4630]

Yeah, it’s just not advantageous to be a firebrand when you’re being introduced to a large audience like Kyle and Krystal’s that prefers less explosive commentary. I still think the core criticism that Saagar doesn’t receive enough direct pushback for some of his absurd and anti-democratic positions is valid, even though Vaush often doesn’t deliver his criticisms in a very tasteful way.

[@matts8708]

@@devonreeves4630 Very true. It's also probably not a good idea to be a firebrand when you host a show with someone you disagree strongly with on certain issues, otherwise the show could devolve into very heated arguments which would be contrary to what the shows "mission" is, if you believe Krystal's explanation. Plus, if she pushed back to the extent we think she should, then Saagar would be pushing back on her ideas that he doesn't agree with. I'm sure there are viewers of their show on the right who say the same about him and think he should push back on her leftist ideas.

[@comyuse9103]

because he isn't a dick? when you are talking to someone and they aren't being an ass to you you typically don't start being an ass first.

[@michaelcorcoran8768]

@@comyuse9103 he literally called her a 'grifting b****" behind her back on a stream. He can be polite but actually address the severity of his comments. This is two-faced chickenshit

[@thesealrebellion]

@@michaelcorcoran8768 cry more

[@Red-ss5lv]

Omg that stuff Vaush talked at the end, Hits hard. Thats so true, even with people I know in my personal life. I literally experience that recently. I wish Psychologists can explain this mental dichotomy these right wing populists have. Its so bizzare.

[@petre1758]

Disgust response and fear of change. That's it basically.

[@NeilTruick]

I had no idea Krystal and Saagar were leaving The Hill as of...like, hours ago.

[@sadiemakesmesmile]

so sad :(

[@dmgib5239]

do you guys know why?

[@helene420]

This is kind of shocking since it's such a successful show, now wondering wth happened behind the scenes.?? It's the only somewhat tolerable way I get the news since I reduse to watch MSM.

[@owencorey9720]

@@ghenulo Emily has some great panels!

[@tvallejo1922]

@@dmgib5239 Probably Palestine coverage, but they won't say

[@GuRuGeorge03]

we are at a point in history where civil discourse like this actually feels "cringe" because it's so rare. this is one of these moments where it hits me, that we actually live in an idiocracy and it gets worse each day.

[@xSayPleasex]

@@ThatGuy-kz3fx No cringe is real. Often stemming from social awkwardness, obvious fakeness, "trying to hard", ADD-like behavior etc.

[@venenodelalengua]

hear hear

[@Arkain89]

this comment is pretty cringe

[@squall13]

I find that people who say this shit don't realize that most likely they're part of said group

[@bobpope3656]

@@ThatGuy-kz3fx what?!?!?! no cringe is real. When somebody be is so insecure I can feel it, that is cringe

[@michaelmaginn7081]

I like Vaush, and Kyle. At one point I was falling in the 2016 KZbin rabbit hole a little. Everyone knew Hillary Clinton had missing Emails. Kyle was one of the only people talking about real things like getting town hall questions beforehand. I was interested in the missing Emails, and to see the other youtubers saying her use of the word pizza meant children was an obvious wild leap that I wouldn’t follow. I don’t know if Fox News even cared that she got town hall questions beforehand. Kyle was legit and spoke on policies to help people. A Vaush video came up in my recommended one day, and ever since his videos have broadened my empathy to other people’s lives. I don’t agree with everything they’ve ever said, but they are real, and I appreciate that.

[@Dennzer1]

✔

[@maikorage444]

Oof. I felt that. I fell out of that rabbit hole fairly recently. Vaush popped up on my recommended during the Smash Bros fiasco. I liked his energy and started watching his other videos. Dude changed my perception on things and I had to do a lot of soul searching. Nonetheless, I'm glad you dug yourself out man.

[@darkcrystalmagik3369]

I used to really like Kyle despite finding some of his takes naive or uniformed. He pissed me off on occasion to with his blind spots like racial or women's rights issues. However I heard about Vaush first here in Kyle's chat from someone else who like me vehemently disagreed with Kyle's defense of Krystal (who I also watched everyday for several months in the lead up to and during the primary- Rising quickly went to shit after that). That combined with enough bad takes over several years led to me unsubbing from Kyle. (Packman too at the same time, and Tim Black soon followed tho of course I didnt watch him nearly as long) And I subbed to Vaush based on his completely valid criticism- he was saying what I had felt for weeks (only more articulately and with more words, lol). Watched about 1/3 of his videos for the last 10 months since. Only back here to see him. However I am really glad Kyle invited him on. I never felt Kyle was bad faith- I believe he cares deeply. I just didnt feel I could learn anything from him any more bc he had become too comfortable and a lil lazy. Ball I have absolutely no use for. She is a liar.

[@gaetano5669]

Kyle is a Democrat at the end of the day, he’ll only take you so far.

[@alexanderplatypus3664]

Exactly. Kyle can help to deradicalize right-wing drifting people by admitting and acknowledging some basic factual minor corruption within the Dem Party establishment. Too many lefties get trapped into thinking they can never admit ANYTHING is bad about someone like Biden , Hillary, etc.

[@snuzzlebumble]

The major disagreement on this issue between Krystal and Vaush seems to be: Krystal thinks working with the right wing is good if you agree on the problems. Vaush thinks working with the right wing is only good if you agree on solutions.

[@rice_frying_shrimp]

very well put

[@WapitalismandWreedom]

meaning vaush never works with the right. if you agree on the solutions then you're on the same side politically

[@babybuds88]

True True True

[@null6955]

i thought his rant was more saying the problem is though they agreed on the issues, they never talked through the solutions at all. and because of that krystal made it seem like republicans could be worked with bc they "agree there are issues". its like that's the bare minimum, so the show was not actually doing anything. and that's true. what is the point of saying the show is about how the other side aren't horrible people when they never use their pov to do something constructive like talk about solutions and why it would work/wouldn't work.

[@WapitalismandWreedom]

@@null6955 can you name another maintsream show that presents two contrary opinions? I dont. appreciate the show for what it is, an example of the right and left actually talking to each other. not everyone needs to be super policy or solutions focused. sometimes you just need to show the opposition you're not the devil and move from there.

[@risingraven23]

Next Goal: Krystal, Kyle, Vaush, and Hassan. If you get those four talking to each other and if their bases unite, we might have something going.

[@Mydogslove2laugh]

I love Hasan and Kyle and Krystal

[@ghostbeer2522]

Special guest: David Pakman (once a week)

[@evanmaguire5976]

@@ghostbeer2522 (only for members)**

[@jodinha4225]

im in all 4 of their bases...

[@contentofficial2129]

tuhhhROOOOOOO

[@timrattray]

Timing... considering Rising just ended....

[@MostlyLoveOfMusic]

oh wow yeah

[@rtorres4132]

"Just got done speaking with krystalball and KyleKulinski on their show! Fantastic conversation; it'll be on their Substack tomorrow and their podcast on Saturday." - Vasuh May 27, 2021 12:42pm

[@adxdenerlx6969]

Fat Ian's last action before turning into buff Ian, just to ensure the legacy lasts after him

[@Robnas621]

Wait... what do u mean Rising just ended?

[@Supernautiloid]

@@Robnas621 it’s over, Krystal and Saagar are leaving the Hill and going independent

[@GabiGhita]

I first read it as: "Vaush explains his issue with... ... rising to Krystal's face"

[@electron6825]

👀

[@charliewhite3905]

Worst title ever

[@xybersurfer]

what do you mean with "..." ?

[@GabiGhita]

@@xybersurfer nothing, just used it to accentuate how I separated the phrase in my head

[@xybersurfer]

@@GabiGhita aha! i get it now

[@GeorgiaOverdrive]

I sometimes can’t watch Vaush because he tends to use a condescending tone in his voice when he thinks he knows something better than anyone else.

[@LaMaiStyle]

It’s annoying.

[@Farvadude]

i could tolerate his tone a lot more if he weren't so ignorant and hypocritical so often. that's what makes it so offensive

[@TheFirstHurrah]

He's VERY good at speaking, very articulate, but I think that often gives people the impression that he's more intelligent than he is.

[@Farvadude]

@@TheFirstHurrah i don't think he's even that good at it, just better than most people due to experience and his aggression often overwhelms them. watch his debate with actual justice warrior to see vaush fall apart when up against someone who really knows their stuff and researched their opponent's knowledge base well.

[@HeelTJ]

@@TheFirstHurrah He and Destiny are basically the Ben Shapiro's of the left

[@thegrimmer]

I watched both Vaush and Rising during the lead up to the capital riot and afterwards. Vaush was right that Rising downplayed the danger right up to the day. Rising's tone immediately changed that day, as any rational show would react. Vaush just had a much better feel for the pulse of what was building and his criticisms at the time were harsh but fair.

[@jirikurto3859]

"danger" Listen to yourself.

[@jirikurto3859]

Meanwhile BLM and Antifa caused exponentially more damage and it lasts to this day as violence in those same communities has mushroomed since George the silliest martyr Floyd.

[@jirikurto3859]

Vaush represents BLM and he represents Antifa. He's the neoliberal clownshow .

[@thegrimmer]

@@jirikurto3859 Nice non-sequirtors

[@lodzat]

@@jirikurto3859 found the thankies

[@jnyerere]

As cringeworthy as Saagar can be at times, he's child's play compared to even the mildest of conservative media. Sometimes you gotta learn to pick your battles.

[@danigimenez7797]

He is also pretty fair when reporting, which is weird to see nowadays!

[@usernamehandle]

Why is everyone praising the civility of this discussion? Like when adults with differing opinions are in the same room they can’t disagree and have a constructive discussion? Is this how low the bar is with everyone on Twitter? That the most people can say is that this was civil?

[@kwameasante5888]

Thank you

[@eemoogee160]

Its rare and doesn't typically generate ratings

[@torbjornlekberg7756]

It is the currently all too common lack of this in political discussion that makes people happy to see it.

[@blacksowrd53]

Have you seen the Hasan and destiny feud? Things don't always stay civil

[@JadoDog]

It's mainly because Kyle fans were so convinced Vaush is the devil and he was going to come on and spew obscenities and dox the both of them and put CP on the screen and etc etc. As a fan of both of them, it was extremely entertaining watching these people riot and validating to see the people appear shocked that people know how to have conversations.

[@Seth9809]

I'm from the future and The Rising is dead, and Breaking Points is a far-right grift.

[@Kim-by5uy]

I love Vaush and Kyle. They made me realize how not-intelligent Shapiro and crowder are.

[@NishanthRajiwtbawlb]

I commend you for putting aside silly right wing tendencies but Fr these mfers are super moderate honestly. I think we need to move past all this electoralism nonsense

[@jaybirdjetwings7516]

Its kinda funny when Krystal deals with people that dont like her or visa versa with that smile she has

[@WhenItsHalfPastFive]

she deserves a lot of respect for that, the disgusting things Vaush has said about Krystal (called her a bitch, fascist, lying grifter etc), I would not have been able to be that calm if I was in her position.

[@CP-ir3ft]

@@WhenItsHalfPastFive he called her a bitch and a fascist? damn. do you have links?

[@Jimbles_Notronbo]

@@WhenItsHalfPastFive he didn't call her a fascist, he said that she enables fascist rhetoric by not meaningfully pushing back on Saagar's insane takes. And, in the segments that he watched on stream, he was absolutely correct.

[@JasonBoreu]

@@WhenItsHalfPastFive He called her a fascist-enabler. Saagar is the one he called a fascist(which i agree with him).

[@nathanduncan672]

@@WhenItsHalfPastFive When did he call her a bitch? Can I get a link or atleast some kind of source info?

[@AutumnLeavey]

honestly great civil discussion, i feel like people who criticize rising don't get that it is (was) one of the few platforms where we had a chance to persuade people, and because it was produced by the hill, the youtube algorithm would actually promote leftist content. the way to persuade a right-winger to the left is through friendship and openness over a long period of time, and that's why accepting and inviting spaces like rising are so important.

[@BoogieDownProduction]

As a political project it might make your feel warm and fuzzy inside but overall its a waste of time. Why make "long term friendship" and persuade a right winger when you could just talk to someone who is not engaged politically instead (larger number of people)? How much energy are you going to put into converting a person? When you could talk to disenfranchised non-political people instead. Also, like Vaush has said before, agreeing on issues is a VERY small piece of the puzzle. Say we both agree on an issue but our solutions are directly opposed, then what?

[@abe8435]

@@BoogieDownProduction Why not flip this argument around and ask Vaush and his fans how much time we should waste on a political faction (the majority of the Democratic Party) that clearly disdains the left. And that’s a party, not just people in our circle and families who have different political attitudes. Vaush is now “disappointed” in Biden for acting like any knowledgeable political observer knew he was bound to act. Vaush just don’t know what he’s talking about a lot of the time

[@wickednwyld]

@@abe8435 - Vaush knew perfectly well how Biden would act. Supporting him was simply the practical matter of picking one's opponent, as he said many times. I think he was a bit positively surprised at some of Biden's initial actions, which lead to disappointment when Biden so quickly reverted to type.

[@BoogieDownProduction]

@@abe8435 Idk about you. But yes my views are more in line with the Dem voters than it is with republican voters so it's kinda a dumb question. You can argue that more time should be used on nonvoters vs Dem voters. Ok maybe thats a good idea. But the same doesn't apply to republican voters, and hence why it's a dumb political project. Even worse when you consider the right wing solutions to the problems that we both agree on (hint their solution is incompatible with most leftist solitons, like directly opposed)

[@abe8435]

@@wickednwyld “This wasn’t part of the deal Joe” - Vaush, in response to Biden’s unqualified support of Netanyahu, apparently thinking Biden had agreed to any kind of deal

[@moscreefus]

He's dead on about that last point, but I hope he and everyone else gets that this isn't just a conservative problem. Krystal addressed the underlying issue perfectly I think

[@wohdinhel]

Well, no, it’s obviously not “just a conservative problem”, we deal with this from tankies constantly as well. The problem is ANY dogmatic ideology which discards reason, regardless of what “side” it’s coming from. It just so happens that tankies are an extreme minority, whereas it’s pretty much the entirety of the conservative wing that engages in this. Once again, it’s a false dichotomy.

[@moscreefus]

@@wohdinhel The left has plenty of culture war issues upon which it will get hung up and ignore the 80% of things people can agree on. Pointing fingers is the problem. Don't be part of it

[@skipklauber1162]

The present Establishment elite has one master trick in its arsenal. Every time folks start getting close to figuring out the actual truth (problems based upon class, DC selling out to China due to greed, etc.) roll out racial divisiveness. As long as that trick continues to work the elite feel safe.

[@masondickerson9466]

It's not *just* a conservative problem, however it is many times more likely to show up in conservative circles than leftist ones.

[@skipklauber1162]

@@masondickerson9466 Wrong. Just flip conservative/liberal (or whatever fashionable term used for “liberal”) depending on your pre-existing prejudice. Is there some difference between “conservatives” ignoring racism or prejudice and those on the left ignoring Antifa or violence or riots or looting?

[@steveg18556]

Imagine if all journalists allowed themselves to go one-on-one with honest criticism-Time Capsule this.

[@tidus9942]

Well all of the people in this episode are idiots so its not hard to criticize them all because all leftists are bad people and bad for this country in general.

[@steveg18556]

@@tidus9942 Thanks for the contribution

[@eemoogee160]

@@tidus9942 really insightful analysis.

[@YourBlackLocal]

She isn’t a journalist, she’s a pundit. People these days have completely lost what journalism even means.

[@andrepoon]

Krystal - Rising fills a niche that needs to be filled. Keep up the good work.

[@anon8068]

and what is that niche exactly?

[@thisfool89]

Nah i couldn't stand Rising. Krystal says sager was genuine and all but everytime i watched them i felt like all he did was make disingenuous arguments. In fact being right wing and populist is almost an oxymoron so i always felt like he was full of shit.

[@comyuse9103]

@@anon8068 enlightened centrism, of course.

[@ComradeCatpurrnicus]

@@anon8068 laundering reactionary talking points and right wing populists aka Fascists while letting Sagaar steamroll her and giving little to no pushback to his ridiculous talking points. That's the niche. It's an awful one that implies that leftists should work with those reactionary and far right people who echo populist sentiments while spewing anti immigrant rhetoric.

[@YaddaYaddaYana]

Rising got me to start giving a shit about politics, economics, and foreign policy; removed my partisan blinders; helped me to stop drinking lib koolaid; radicalized me from being a lib to a leftist; introduced me to Kyle Kulinski and other prominent leftist figures

[@dylanroth8978]

"Don't demonize your neighbor is very important" -- guy who refers to vast swaths of people as Nazis and conflates communists with fascists

[@IAmTheBugInsideYou]

@Cool Cat Tankies are fascists on the other end yup, only conflation he makes there.

[@blackphillip564]

Vaush literally calls anyone who's conservative in anyway a fascist like Lauren Chen who's a pretty standard millenial conservative/pseudo-libertarian. He's a simpleton who looks at Left politics as an edgy online subculture.

[@rhoell2050]

It's more about don't demonize your neighbors, but don't accept their vile opinions on politics. If the person is open to discussing and evolving their opinions, thats fine. However, if they dig their heels, feel free to label them as they stand

[@JasonBoreu]

Name a single person Vaush called a nazi that wasn't one? And yes, tankies are left-wing fascists. Cry harder.

[@aszhara2900]

Yeah, the tankies are dumb idiots, nobody disagrees. But I have yet to see Vaush call out the Frankfurt Marxists pushing anti-science shit all over the place. Mostly because it's a part of his audience and he knows that

[@colorbugoriginals4457]

True journalism, open discussion with each other, this is great. RIP MSM.

[@diegol.4664]

not journalism, but punditry. Good punditry, but punditry nonetheless. Journalism involves sources, breaking a story, etc.

[@nappyk96]

@@diegol.4664 Who would you consider a "journalist" out of curiosity?

[@nappyk96]

@Colorbug the MSM won't die until traditional television and KZbin do I say KZbin because if you didn't know they give msm a incredibly unfair advantage over alternative media by pushing them on people relentlessly I mean I never watch any main stream media but still I get recommended it everyday and I get unsubscribed to channels I actually watch like secular talk for example.

[@h.l.malazan5782]

Krystal Ball gave the smallest support recognizing the full context of the storming of the capitol on January 8, and the insecure Justice Dem supporters constantly feel obligated to push back on it. "But storming the capitol is wrong, right? Right? Right?" How many times does she have to condemn the riot before the snowflakes will back off?

[@h.l.malazan5782]

@@TheRybka30 I'm just asking a question. What? Am I invading your safe space?

[@scotthicks1795]

Cliffhanger...it was just getting into the meat of his central critique of “Rising”.

[@skatemo100]

At least the audio will be free lol

[@DiabolicalApostle]

@@skatemo100 It's only five bucks a month. Help our boy beat Bari Weiss.

[@dudeman5303]

Yah I am shocked that's where they stopped it. I also really want to know how Krystal would respond to that because I think it's an extremely good point vaush was going on.

[@thajarin]

Yeah, I love it, you spend every penny of your "entertainment budget, if you skip a few basic necessities, just to get online... then someone tells you, it's just 5 bucks a month... ha ha good times.

[@thatsinteresting3415]

@@thajarin Also, some people live in countries where the payment services aren't even available.

[@dv2712]

Awesome! Kyle, Rising, and Vaush were my bread and butter last year. Helped me grow politically and philosophically through the pandemic- and it’s wonderful to see them together talking it out. Hope there’s more!

[@oraz.]

Why do you like vaush? what's appealing about academic feminist identity politics from an average left perspective?

[@SongGarde]

@@oraz. He's a feminist, and he rails against identity politics VERY heavily. Idpol is very much a conservative/liberal thing, not for us leftists. He's explained it many, many times now, but being a member of a specific demographic does not make you a good person. You are fully capable of being a woman, for example, and pushing for ideas that do not help women in any way. To answer for the OP, if I may, I like him because the explanatory utility of his positions and his lens of analysis are incredibly powerful, to the point I haven't seen any other person talk in a way that really gets at the foundation of issues that is as useful or meaningful. Also his debates are fun as hell, but also informative. Hope that answered your question.

[@oraz.]

@@SongGarde I'm surprised you're not critical of the feminist basis of all that, and take this feminist-left perspective as basically correct or outside of identity politics. Gender is one of the categories of identity, feminism obviously makes very fundamental statements about privilege being an overarching dichotomy in favor of men (even though outcomes don't actually reflect that) that's functionally identity politics and a very particular perspective about people. Maybe you agree with that particular feminist dichotomy, but I don't think it's something take as simply correct and don't see how that's obviously necessarily left, and even obfuscates class in favor these blanket academic assumptions which are essentially elite misconceptions. You don't have any critical feeling toward presenting academic feminism as fundamentally leftist, or presenting men as uniquely living with advantage with a syndrome of masculinity being the supposed sole exception? I'm sorry these aren't essentially good ideas, or even fundamentally leftist and are stilted toward a really particular perspective. This is all just taken uncritically as a good thing?

[@SongGarde]

@@oraz. Wow that is an incredible amount of assumption and misconception jam packed into a few short paragraphs, I commend you. I'll try not to be too antagonistic, and forgive me if I keep it too simplistic, i'm going to be away from my own computer for a long time and I don't want to type books on my phone. To speak of privilege, currently we have what is referred to as "Patriarchy". Don't get alarmed, i'm sure you have seen it mentioned a lot but don't really know what it means. Simply, a Patriarchy is a society which puts preference on men over women in most cases. On the surface level, this can come across as "men bad", but the reality is that men are harmed too by patriarchy in the form of family courts, profiling men as more violent, more difficulty in finding a romantic partner, lack of social support groups, deteriorated mental health brought on by unrealistic social expectations (toxic masculity), etc. All of these things that harm men, are a direct result OF a male-centric society. This is the modern feminist position, and I find it exceptionally agreeable, yes. I don't find any if this to be mutually exclusive from leftism, in fact they are quite compatible--leftism being about dissolving systems of oppression. This is also why academic feminism is intersectional--if we only look at one power structure, we can solve some problems but we leave many out in the cold. These things need to take into account many other influences as well: A woman may face certain obstacles in her life because of her gender, a black person faces others, and a poor person yet more. A poor black woman, however, can experience oppression in ways that each lens of analysis can only partially address, so that's where Intersectionality comes in. As for being critical, yes. You should ALWAYS be critical of any lens of analysis, but if you find it agreeable and it seems to have good explanatory utility, and seems to lead to good outcomes, being ultra-critical at that point seems really silly. Certainly be open to being wrong, but I don't need to be critical of the idea that food is good for me to eat once in a while, you know?

[@oraz.]

@@SongGarde What you just wrote to me is some of the most typically insular stiled type of thinking if seen repeated back to me. Nothing you said is anything new, just a very easy type of self rationalizing ideological rhetoric. If you're a proponent of this kind of superficial narrowly self-affirming dogma, spare the person reading these flourishes about "don't be alarmed" etc. There is no way I could get through to you with the kind of totally self assured rote ideology you're repeating back to me. There's definitely no possibility for anything productive to come from this conversation unfortunately, so I'll just leave it there.

[@BryanBMusic]

I’m from a conservative town and I know from experience that some people (not all) are persuadable, but you will just have them tune you out if you start with condescension or shaming. Since Krystal is from a similar town I think that’s why she’s more charitable to people with awful politics. I do find it hypocritical that Vaush claims to dislike dishonest actors and yet will frame Krystal differently on his own stream versus to her face. At the same time I do think Krystal, because she doesn’t like confrontation, gives Saagar a kid gloves treatment and could rebut (tactfully) better and more often. But overall I thought it was a rich discussion.

[@presidentresident]

I dont think Krystal's behavior is all that atypical even if she had a more confrontational personality. I think its human nature. For example, If you ever watch say that Fox show with Juan Williams and a bunch of conservatives/republicans, they never address him with near the vitriol and disrespect as they do 'the left' that doesnt happen to be their colleague and sitting right infront of them. In fact on Rising Saager is just as reticent to push back too hard against Krystal as she is to do the reverse. Thats just how people work and really how it should be imo. The political echo chambering that modern technology has exacerbated is the scourge of western civilization and really is one of the threats to the human species. Rising was actually more important than people realize(Especially the people who think those of the 'opposite' political persuasion are either evil or just engaging in flawed thinking).

[@xavwill4807]

He was just trying to be civil, but yeah krystal ball is pretty irresponsible with her takes.

[@definitelynotcrazyrei3890]

"I know from experience that some people (not all) are persuadable, but you will just have them tune you out if you start with condescension or shaming." Yeah, but that takes a lot of effort, calling them Nazis is just so much easier.

[@KyleS.1987]

Krystal gave Andy Ngo the kid gloves treatment, too. I simply don't trust her.

[@xavwill4807]

@Matt Turner ?

[@SquadDirector]

That last point that Vaush made is why I agreed with his critique of 'Rising.' Saagar has said some ridiculous shit while Krystal just sat there and didn't even push back. Also, both Krystal and Saagar would point out the short comings of the democratic party, which is very much encouraged, but rarely did I watch a segment on Rising that focused on the right like they did on the left.

[@Thunder103093]

no idea what you were talking about because i saw them all the time attack the right

[@huornaldarion781]

Bring on Justin King aka Beau of the fifth column!

[@Zel9153]

I second that!

[@adayinforever]

Agreed. I really like him.

[@slashandbones13]

That would be great.

[@tychiabrown7440]

Yes!!!! That would be awesome!! 😊

[@antivaushistscheaktion1148]

Yes, I'd much rather see him than Vauche.

[@cronustitan7223]

Does anyone else think it is time for Krystal to remove that sticker from her laptop?

[@bobpope3656]

That implies she critically thinks about her own positions not just others.

[@knection1986]

@@bobpope3656 you insult everyone without proper context or is this an exception 🤣 Both her and Saagar are no longer on The Hill...

[@cronustitan7223]

@@bobpope3656 You're overthinking it. I wasn't defending nor criticizing Krystal's positions on any issues. As noted in the comment below, I was referencing Saagar and her having left The Hill, and thus it's time for that "The Hill" sticker to come off.

[@andrewgreaves56]

This was really great. I respect all parties involved in this. It's important to discuss our similarities and differences rather than snipe from afar. Also props to Kyle for knowing when to shut up. That takes class.

[@uncannyvalley2350]

He didn't shut up when he called Russiagate a hoax or the insurrection a "Diet Coup" nor when Charles Manafort was made Sec Def obviously in preparation for the coup, which Kyle assured us was "wacky conspiracy talk" Kulinksi is a right wing operatives posing as a progressive, and has direct ties to intelligence agencies and Roger Stone via his pal Joe Rogan

[@andrewgreaves56]

@Former Child Model maybe you should have spent less time modeling as a child and more time learning to use your brain.

[@dragonore2009]

Yes, but always remember, to give yourself over to the mob.

[@kraykray9585]

Lol watch him twiddle his thumbs hilarious.

[@lachlanbell8390]

@@uncannyvalley2350 That moment you realise there are still people out there so dumb, they still believe Russiagate wasn't a hoax.

[@jfuite]

Vaush: "There is nothing inherently leftist about me. If I was born to a different set of parents, then I could have been a conservative." I think this is a remarkable statement that I think is true for most people, and clearly stated almost never. I think people need to see how much they are influenced by their surroundings. The best way is to take the best ideas from the conservatives and the best ideas among the liberals, and make them your own.

[@ryancarls]

Most conservatives i know grew up around democrats or socialist . I think it is somewhat condescending that someones political view is a product of their upbringing and not from their thinking.

[@AlanGarciaC.1093]

So we fall back again to the nature vs nurture debate. If you're on the left you will say nurture, if you're on the right you will say nature. We know that temperament determines your political views. I'm on the right. I think that my temperament is heavily determined by my genes (not entirely, of course, but very heavily). You guys probably think that temperament is constructed through socialization. So sure. I get why you guys would think that what Vaush says is noble. But it still is a point of contention in the culture war.

[@kyleganse4978]

The issue is some of them are contradictory and where do you decide one approach or the other. The reality neither has absolute answers and both answers will be needed and wisdom is knowing when to act with specific remedies.

[@jfuite]

@Kyle Ganse Excellently stated. Any fair, independently minded person can see that at different times, the best approach may come from either the conservative or liberal side of an issue. That’s why cultivating a healthy “public square” for wise social debate is so paramount. And, that’s why the lack of a fair, functional public square is harming society today.

[@thezfunk]

@@AlanGarciaC.1093 The science that has worked on left vs. right thinking people seem to, so far, show that it is more nature than nurture.

[@coodude25]

Really great conversation, great to hear where everyone's head is at.

[@Preacher_.]

Meh, Vaush's "criticisms" were pretty weak...

[@jonnynice8366]

Vaush is a fake. He talks a good talk and then finishes by serial-strawmanning republicans and pretending like voting democrat will fix the systemic issues that the democrats helped create.

[@Lack_Of_Interest]

@@jonnynice8366 Nice vague gesture at imagined hypocrisy.

[@7rgrov198]

@@Preacher_. his criticisms, as i have understood them from his streams, is that krystal is so eager to criticise the democrats, and barely pushes back when saagar's fawns over republican policies

[@crazyholmes97]

I think everyone's heads are clearly up their asses. Kyle is a funny dude bringing this weirdo anywhere near himself 😂u

[@TechnoLion1]

Damn what a two faced SOB Vaush is. I listened to what he said about Krystal and it was really awful. Nothing close to what he is making it seem here...

[@thepants1450]

He sucks

[@Mydogslove2laugh]

Exactly

[@leahvogel5527]

I've never watched him but I've seen clips of him talking crap about her & he's definitely soft playing it here

[@thepants1450]

@@leahvogel5527 what he said about her and BJG was horrid.

[@zk8145]

He’s a clout chaser don’t let his nice act fool you he’s a smear merchant.

[@jimmymcgill7370]

Holy shit I can’t believe this moment finally happened haha

[@panama2468]

"i'm gonna assume everything was said in good faith and substantive" SHOTS FIRED! XD

[@shortstuff780]

Love how sly and witty she is. She's great

[@destroytheboxes]

Yea. She pwned him in that simple line. He probably missed it.

[@adamlynch6954]

@@shortstuff780 she's awful

[@bfizz1e187]

they were not. vaush is a despicable loser

[@heatran1919]

Alright, yall got me, I'm subscribing to the show for this convo

[@katyungodly]

I'll pay them $5 then cancel my subscription, just to see this episode

[@Marcus-143]

Lol hook line and sinker, like a trout. You idiots forget who support actual fascists...? I haven't heard one word of regret about it either. So dumb, just repeating the cycle over and over.

[@KyleRichter34]

@@Marcus-143 Trump voters?

[@jacob-magnuson]

I am SO glad to hear Krystal reflect on that way about the George Floyd era interactions with Saagar. Having derived lots of inspiration and optimism from the example that they set on that show, it was tough seeing them let that wedge be driven between them. I’m glad that they’ve learned from the experience; it’s encouraging.

[@whitr2367]

Exactly dude!! Cause it was hard to watch during that time

[@Kevo6492]

Bruh the amount of people who are appealing to civility in here while Kyle routinely mocks it is a whiplash.

[@jascu4251]

Agree with this. The premise of the show being focussed on commonalities is a good one, but when there are difference they need to face them head on and not shy away from them. Sometimes agreement isn't possible and pretending otherwise doesnt help!

[@oboogie2]

Up until that time it was the only time they had to stop and edit a Rising show.

[@Brentford-zk4ey]

Congratulations to George floyd on being a year sober.

[@Boggsy.]

Feels like it was anticipated to be Jon-Stewart-on-Crossfire-2.0, but ended up a lot more civil.

[@Akumasama]

If Saagar had been there, it probably would have. Krystal's main flaw is that she doesn't call out Saagar.

[@Boggsy.]

@@Akumasama Yeah, I agree. That would have been the true confrontation with them both there.

[@fod1202]

@@Akumasama She does call him out to his face. This is not the time though.

[@SimpCity2000]

Vaush is right, and it is exactly why I stopped watching Rising a while ago. I am glad to hear people willing to call Krystal out for standing shoulder to shoulder with the far right. She is not emboldening the left, she is consistently dismantling it for the benefit of the right whether she means to or not.

[@nataliekhanyola5669]

Vaush does the same thing just for your average neo-liberal democrat!🙄🙄

[@vertigo2894]

That's the problem, both her and Saagar attack the democrats. Krystal is still very bitter with the democrats cause she lost her election.

[@felicianofrontado3134]

Not really, he behaved and didn't call her a grifter this time.

[@petersaint5581]

What an absolute coward

[@foxxie1702]

True, Vaush is very uncharitable in his videos but when talking to people he can be cordial and fair when he wants lol

[@MrNH718]

@@dylanbutts1628 you're a clown

[@DR-hy6is]

@@MrNH718 She is a shill who helps Saagar carry water for the GQP.

[@JohnCorley13]

@@foxxie1702 because he's all about rhetoric.

[@sillynelson1]

Vaush thinks he’s so much smarter than he is

[@edwardb4730]

That’s true of all three of these people. And 99% of all political commentators, pundits, etc

[@MrBen51309]

@@edwardb4730 The other two aren't as insufferable as him though.

[@paulsmith7579]

Vaush takes smug to a new level.

[@lilmoe4364]

That's true of all of us - you too

[@edwardb4730]

@@lilmoe4364 definitely

[@briansanchez1740]

"Solo content" Giggity...

[@jd7634]

Down boy down!

[@Kalivermore925]

🤣🤣

[@bendover2425]

I’d watch that. I’d watch with that Saager guy too

[@jblue705]

Lol

[@cameronarko8296]

Smh...

[@TheJosephPrice]

Let’s just be honest, Rising would intentionally cater to right wingers with their titles and stories and spent more time criticizing the Democrats, while blatantly ignoring the creeping growth of fascism in the GOP.

[@thecoolannishatk.]

Yes and? This implies they never gave the gop shit which they did.

[@benmclatchie4440]

Krystal is one of the most honest voices in progressives politics today in my opinion

[@TMinozaJ]

You can just feel Vaush sweating when she’s like “me and Sagaar agree on 70% of issues”

[@beavareya]

Vaush was holding back quite hard.

[@Peasham]

@@beavareya It's not called holding back, it's called "grifting", he put on a face to own up to all the ridiculous baseless shit he spewed over the years.

[@sjue316]

@@beavareya That's cause he'd been ripped a new one by two people instead of one. You don't think Kyle would defend Krystal if needed.

[@Mydogslove2laugh]

Yeah, I wish he would have owned up to calling Krystal a fucking bitch. My thing is say to my face what you say behind my back.

[@Ahmed-qu1mp]

@Drew Taylor his hatred for the Republican Party isn’t due to some loyalty to the Democratic Party, that would make him a partisan.

[@glowingsme7943]

Vaush annoys the ever living crap out of me!!! His tone and ego drive me insane.

[@leahvogel5527]

Ya I don't understand why everyone seems to think this dude special either. He's definitely got an over inflated ego

[@GalacticNovaOverlord]

Yet he's effective and generally has good takes?

[@readable95]

I have never heard of him before. What does he even do?

[@jansettler4828]

Translation: "I'm intimidated by his 4 digit IQ"

[@jansettler4828]

@Mystical Alchemy I can feel you shaking over there in the presence of his ginormous throbbing co-... brain

[@EdCamarillo]

Krystal much respect for your response to Vaush. You used your response to him to prove your point about finding common ground and trying to have meaningful and respectful discourse.

[@bidhrohi12]

She's doing the same thing Dave Rubin did. She'll find Christ and be on Prager U soon enough.

[@zking2929]

@@bidhrohi12 "yeah then she'll be a white nationalist!" You people are always jumping to extremes falling into the prey of the system to divide us. You sound like the same people who tout Qanon, covid conspiracies, anti Vax, etc......

[@TheBeatlesMan96]

@@bidhrohi12This aged like milk, how’s that stupid prediction working out for ya?

[@vasilcvetkovski7249]

Vaush on his show: Krystal Ball is a fascist enabler and nazbol! Vaush on Secular Talk: I think you might have gone too far in criticizing Democrats instead of Republicans.

[@vasilcvetkovski7249]

Btw I'm glad this was a civil discussion. Good for Kyle for inviting him to speak directly to Krystal. Vaush goes off the rail sometimes, but he normally calms down and is capable of talking things out. He also supports the progressive agenda 90+% of the time.

[@rubbercable]

He went on dim tool's show. This is diplomacy/outreach.

[@turanamo]

Vaush played softball as usual in the guise of diplomacy

[@rubbercable]

@@turanamo I feel it worked on the people who aren't QAnon levels of stanning.

[@lowercasehorse2363]

You seem to not understand that vaush has to be civil. If he just started calling her a facist enabling nazbol he would come off looking really bad. He made his point in a more polite way without backing off of it and krystal said why it wasn't true.

[@stenergut9661]

Weak! Vaush sidestepped the question. Vaush' original criticism of the Krystal and Saagar dynamics was that Krystal was like; "Dem establishment is corrupt and wont deliver material improvement to your life, so voting doesn't really matter" While Saagar was like: "GOP establishment is corrupt and wont deliver material improvements to your life, but they are the only thing standing between you and the wokescholds and immigrants horde which will take your jobs, plunder your homes and hence you gotta vote GOP." That is the basic assymetry in Rising which Vaush originally pointed, but he was too much chickenshit to repeat it to Krystals face.

[@IAmTheBugInsideYou]

We need to see them do more yes cause he was too tame & didn't bring the comments I've heard him say, agreed.

[@RJG7203]

I am pretty sure she's made clear distinctions between Biden and Trump. It wasn't just simply both are equally just as bad. She has always recognized that Biden has always been the lesser evil.

[@Letty4]

Panicked when I heard you did your last Rising! 😱 Can't wait to see what's next!

[@xybersurfer]

what?! she stopped doing rising? this is the first time i heard

[@Ali_Ali_1]

@@xybersurfer Yep, they both are. They will do something independent soon; Ryan Grim and Emily Jashinsky will replace them

[@alexanderplatypus3664]

@@Ali_Ali_1 I don't know who Emily is but I like Ryan Grim so that could still be a good show.

[@johnm_inmn4745]

Great point by Vaush at the end on right wing populism. I’ve always thought Saagar’s RW populism was somewhat fraudulent and Vaush touches on it here.

[@johnm_inmn4745]

@@ThomasTedison I can't go long with you here. Trumpism is faux populism. True populism is a multi-racial mass movement of working class people for economic progressivism. It is and was a movement of the left.

[@ericpreston8877]

Socialism is not populist at all. Populism of both left and right is incoherent. It wants to hook the working class further into the system of capitalist production instead of extricating them from it.

[@IAmChadBroseph]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen the front of Vaush’s face

[@Siberius-]

That goes back a bit...

[@bobpope3656]

Have you seen that back of his face? That’s weird.

[@johnb7046]

A blank, derelict stare?

[@MarkArandjus]

If you want to see his face from the front, watch his debate with Molenyeoux where Vaush will periodically look directly into the camera in disbelief at some of Stefan's dumb takes.

[@franciscotravelss]

I like this segment I’m definitely subscribing now that Rising is done, finally

[@michaelhook8956]

Rising isn’t done! They’re just going to have new hosts.

[@franciscotravelss]

@@michaelhook8956 yes but rising won’t be rising without Krystal and sagaar plus this channel reposts so many BS clips over and over and over so I’m glad I can finally unfollow but I’ll be heading wherever they go

[@franciscotravelss]

@Mystical Alchemy I get that but I mean as in the channel rising I’m sure we all tune because of them two

[@thejquinn]

@@michaelhook8956 Yeah Ryan "Shill" Grimm XD

[@mrtekbunny]

Rising is done? Sweet, That was a particularly gross propaganda machine.

[@shimes424]

This is so much more interesting after this morning's show 🌄

[@carjaune6793]

Clue me in?

[@Discostick55]

@@carjaune6793 summary: today was the last Rising. watch em announce it here youtu.be/watch?v=Dg0dpH10ERg

[@riledmouse4677]

@@Discostick55 wow!! 😳 Thanks so much for the link.

[@dispatcherrich]

@@Discostick55 it wasn't the last rising just the last rising with Krystal and Saagar. Ryan Grim and Emily Jashinsky will be hosting Rising going forward.

[@ThePanderson69]

@@dispatcherrich I like Ryan and Emily, but I'm not going to watch it anymore without Krystal and Saagar.

[@TheDudimus]

I really appreciate this direct, open dialog.

[@DarkerPhoenix1]

Krystal showed she can defend herself, I'm glad Vaush went onto the show! We need to unite the left

[@johnb7046]

Krystal was great. Vaush uses flowery language to persuade you that he knows what hes talking about, yet just because he does half the time, doesn't mean he's not stabbing your back the other half.

[@CaliIzActive]

@@johnb7046 clear examples ?

[@TheDrewBurnetteShow]

@@CaliIzActive How about this video? He used nice flowery language with Krystal to her face, barely able to say anything he has against her.... Yet has like a hundred videos online smearing her calling her a grifter, liar, pos. He clearly had nothing against her worth mentioning, just wants the clicks on his channel. But he's a real sweetheart when he's on her podcast.

[@waltergrace565]

@@TheDrewBurnetteShow vaush is a straight up grifter

[@LouieV6]

@@waltergrace565 How is he a grifter?

[@MemoTercero]

This conversation is actually going to make me check out their substack.

[@_helium_]

Same

[@zvendiearschficker4892]

Same, how does it work? Is it monthly like Patreon of do you pay for episodes individually?

[@cloudyskies5497]

@@zvendiearschficker4892 It's monthly $5 for the video and access to all episodes. Audio is always free if you sign up for the newsletter.

[@zvendiearschficker4892]

@@cloudyskies5497 Awesome man, thanks! Where can sign up for the newsletter? I have no idea where I would sign up for it lol

[@rcb6ocs414]

The audio isn’t up for this convo unfortunately

[@quatreraberbawinner2628]

Vaush is such a narcissist

[@adrians9997]

In what way?

[@ignaciojoseminyambres4867]

I am European. Yes, from one of those countries with, you know, public health and free education and stuff. If this Vaush (first time I heard this guy) is left wing, I am the Queen of England. "I am an Anarchist, vote for Biden". ROFL

[@chupacabra_7684]

Yes.

[@zvendiearschficker4892]

That's how bad it is here

[@nhjay334]

Kyle just lost all his pro genocide viewers.

[@Noah_McCurry]

Genocide of who?

[@robm6645]

wut?

[@pdpgb]

I can only imagine it's something to do with Israel?

[@matheusgomes9]

@@pdpgb nah it’s about who deny the Uyghurs genocide by the CCP ( who some “leftists” agree with, and Vaush shits on them all the time )

[@GalacticNovaOverlord]

@@matheusgomes9 Yeah. Though if you compare what Israel does vs what China does, you'd see Israel being much worse in their treatment (both are still bad). Israel wants to eliminate them while China wants to alter their culture and integrate them.