Sedevacantism is a Dead End: Trailer Park Cults & "Popes" - Jay Dyer

[@PhilipCunningham1788]

As a recent refugee from Sedevacantism this video is timely. One point that Sedevacantism never answers is that Rome is supposed to be the one, particular indefectible Church except apparently since 1958 or whenever.

[@Michael_Chandler_Keaton]

Yep as de fide dogma and ex cathedra Papal pronouncements make clear....

[@mikek17]

You're absolutely right Jay, Sedevacantism is such a mental toll on the believer. I used to be a Sedevacantist and the amount of mental stress that was required, the constant worry about salvation, the claims of eschatological signs and near-end-of-the-world prophecies, the difficulty finding places to commune, and just the almost autistic scrupulosity of Sedevacantists made it almost impossible for me to live a normal life. Thankfully I found Orthodoxy around a year ago and I have been following on this path for a while now and things are really improving. Glory to God!

[@davidduck3652]

Im still in the worrying about salvation. Don't now how to overcome

[@Jimmy-iy9pl]

@@davidduck3652 believe the Gospel.

[@RobertTaylor87]

Great video, Jay. I was raised Catholic, left for a while, then started into sedevecantism and/or tradcath circles for a while...until Orthodoxy. Perhaps by providence I found your work as soon as I started attending divine liturgy. A year later, my wife and I are both now chrismated Orthodox, newly baptized baby boy, and continually stunned by the beauty and truth of Orthodoxy. Thank you for your work Jay!

[@shayneswenson]

Hey Jay, Shayne here. After watching your debate with Nick Fuentes again I have the following thoughts; I think Nick Fuentes has so wedded and subordinated his religious predilections to his politics that no matter how devastating a rebuke of Roman Catholicism is presented to him, he will not be capable of embracing anything else. His religious beliefs seem to be a mere afterthought as opposed to his political philosophies. This seems to be a common occurrence in the growing subculture of “trad” young men who are more fixated, in many ways, on aesthetic and LARP than on discovering truth. Maybe this is due to the youth of these people but I find the trend towards Roman Catholic “Traditionalism” among them a bit odd as they seem to only want to embrace a Roman Catholicism that is about 150 years old.

[@t.l.ciottoli4319]

It is in part this: they are intelligent enough to realize that liberalism and much of modern Western society is immoral and a complete disaster, and that it is Christianity that built the white man’s world, Western Civ. So, we know something is terribly wrong with modern Christianity, and something was right about earlier more traditional forms of Christianity, because we know that earlier and more traditional forms of Western Civilization, societal rules and norms, were much healthier, more moral, than today’s forms. In our eagerness for ANYTHING decent and ‘true,’ in this world that is full of absurdities and lies, even ones coming from our own parents and grandparents, it is very easy to latch on to the first form of traditionalism that one encounters (be it Catholic, Calvinist, etc) and it gives us so much more clarity than the alternatives within our nihilistic society and dead human relationships, that we are eager to ‘get in the fight’ and fight against all these manifest evils and insanity we see. This leaves little time or energy to then question seriously that very form of traditionalism which has just offered us and supplied someone with such great relief from the madness we are surrounded by. In a completely bonkers world, what passes for normalcy and sanity becomes increasingly less pure, less ‘true’, but young, intelligent white men with intellectual and moral courage are so desperate and often alone, even having to fight against and ‘rebel’ against their own Baby Boomer parents, and virtually everyone in their own generation, not to mention all the media, etc., consumerism and anti-white political correctness surrounding them, assailing them, that those men find such relief in one form of traditionalism or another that they are often just too tired, or scared, to question the very thing that has, albeit temporarily, given them refuge in a completely insane world. This is how I explain my own journey, and wonder why it is I did not come to find Truth, and the Truth of Orthodoxy, much sooner. Or, rather, even while knowing that Truth was vitally important, why I was not seeking a fuller Truth, a deeper and more complete thoroughness and integrity between thought, action, etc. This world is chock full of temptations, distractions, shysters, dead ends, false hopes. We can be ‘on the trail’ but get detoured before God makes us realize that the devil really and truly is in the details. The small things. We think we have discovered ‘enough’ Truth, and compared to our insane surroundings, we have discovered and accepted quite a bit. We then do not think that we must continue searching for and discovering more. We just want to engage the enemy or sometimes just live life, try and ‘be normal.’ But, the only “normal” people are the Saints of Holy Orthodoxy. It can take a long time to realize that, and let go of the world.

[@waterhead1029]

Oh, how right you were. I've been watching Jay for a bit now, so I just signed up and came to the members area. After Turning Point USA, Fuentes was bought and paid for by Conservative Inc. He's going to be a new gatekeeper. He's been assimilated.

[@larrycera1943]

One would think that it is also the only familiarity they have. The nationalism among them might actually be served better by orthodoxy, as it wouldn’t take a political genius to create an argument that orthodoxy can give them apostolic traditional Christianity (much more conservative than any age of Roman Catholicism, which is not conservative but additive in its paradigm) with national churches not beholden to a slave master and his henchmen in Rome. I predict this will happen more and more, as they are exposed to orthodoxy. The English sources are sparse compared to Catholic ones, but as that changed so will the politico-religio pretenses of these young men

[@maxguita12]

When you said the word "incel", most holy family monastery immediately came to mind ..

[@fnfn9229]

For me it was trailer park lol

[@dezeekat]

MHFM absolutely FELTED

[@whitemakesright2177]

"Sedevacautism" is hilarious. Great play on words.

[@whitemakesright2177]

+Tango Mike I think it is fully appropriate to ridicule things that are ridiculous. Why does all intellectual discussion have to be dry and stuffy? In fact, your humorless comment makes the "autism" charge seem all the more valid. What's your argument that sedevacantism is accurate? Do you have one, or are you just here to quibble about tone?

[@whitemakesright2177]

+Tango Mike Still waiting on an argument for your position. Or even a statement of your position. For someone seemingly so concerned with "actual argument," all you've done in 2 long comments is quibble about tone. I'll start by stating my point of view: that the entire Roman Catholic worldview (of which Trad Caths and Sedevacantists are a subset) is wrong. The controversial doctrines - namely, papal supremacy and the filioque - are innovations that contradict early Church teaching.

[@larrycera9276]

I came to orthodoxy the same path you did. I hope to enter next year. Your analysis from the beginning is spot on. I love your theological and philosophical discussions, but this video is very close to home

[@blankedfonz6322]

honestly Jay what broke the straw for me was reflecting on the fact that the Pope Francis can be elected Pope that within itself along with trad hypocrisy, and of course Hoffmans book made me think something is off I guess I would of never questioned certain things if the Pope was " traditional "

[@soup1940]

Hey Jay, the intellectual giants over at Most Holy Family Monastery mentioned you and tried to refute you in their latest vid. Debate?

[@CatholicHusband]

He won't debate them. That would expose him for being a heretic.

[@stefanevgenii3350]

@@CatholicHusband That lot is also a trailer park cult

[@jamesharper151]

Adolf Schicklegruber no, that's you lol

[@jamesharper151]

Adolf Schicklegruber being a coward online is pathetic

[@jamesharper151]

Adolf Schicklegruber that's literally what he does, but ok keep defending an infidel

[@gregoryvess7183]

“But let’s just do a bunch of mental gymnastics to make that work.” Lol that was actually funny.

[@lucabob4603]

Very interesting video, Jay. I had no idea that the sedes were this divided, in fact. An idea for another video similar to this would be on the topic of the schismats on our side, namely old calendarists, old believers, true Orthodox/Catacomb church, matthewists etc.

[@JayDyer]

Luca Bob kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJPVnX9rnNZkfZo

[@pepesellsbutwhosbuying7925]

I'm Catholic, but that thumbnail was f hilarious. Muh keyz LMAO

[@wallacepearse8322]

Fr Cekada is a stable individual or least seems to be one. Debate him.

[@JayDyer]

Wallace Pearse be glad to

[@JayDyer]

Wallace Pearse read their book

[@kenshin4113]

Will you do a video on Uniatism/Dubunking “Eastern Catholicism”.

[@MattRobson]

SSPX Bishop Williamson was pretty based when he said, on the Sound of Music, "Can you imagine this Julia Andrews staying with the Captain if 'the romance went out of their marriage'?"

[@maxguita12]

I've been sedevacantist for two years, and was baptized into the CMRI. however, due to all the confusion and fighting in the Catholic church right now, both between the liberal novus ordites and the trad Catholics, I decided to renounce my faith in Catholicism yesterday. I'm STILL A VERY DEVOTED CHRISTIAN HOWEVER, and I'm very much sold on Orthodoxy instead of protestantism and Catholicism. Orthodoxy is the only Church I've noticed that's even remotely consistent liturgically, and traditionally. So therefore I REALLY want to convert to The Orthodox Faith I don't know where to start though. Can someone PLEASE give me guidance on how to do this? May Jay, or someone else can respond to my comment and give me steps? I pray to Jesus and Mary that this will be divinely arranged. God bless you, in Jesus and Mary!

[@markburns4577]

LOL @ the Dimond Brothers impersonation. Hilarious.

[@thomascomerford7815]

Richard Kolar John Salza has refuted the Dimonds to a pretty good extent, that is, if you read each person's arguments and refutations of each other.

[@thomascomerford7815]

Richard Kolar Also, can you give me a link to the Dimonds challenging Mr. Dyer to a debate?

[@jamesharper151]

Thomas Comerford he didn’t refute anything

[@thomascomerford7815]

@@Ali-ei8po Sincerely...

[@Kralperri]

The last 7 minutes of this video was pure rampage. The truth really is simple in the end: Participate in the activity of the Holy Spirit in the Church and you will be fine, just like Christ himself told us to. Simple! Just look at the modern Orthodox Saints from Athos for instance, they are no different than from the historical Saints, like the Desert Fathers, in mindset and wonderworking. Just >come and see

[@Spec7re82]

Hey Jay, do you have a video/article somewhere describing how you got from “there is a god” to “the Christian god”?

[@JayDyer]

Spec7re82 jaysanalysis.com/2013/10/26/numbers-prove-god/

[@ЗащитникПравославия]

Hey Jay, what are your opinions on the cult known as MHFM aka Vatican Catholic?

[@angelaa.4254]

MHFM are feeneyites

[@Val.Kyrie.]

Novus ordo watch blocked you?! What?! My old Benedictine priest (I was sede) would proofread his articles and check his theology and stuff. I had a lot more respect for him until I heard that.

[@ahankish]

Jay, did you ever consider Eastern Catholicism? I’m in a Roman Catholic family but I’ve been having doubts.

[@JayDyer]

Alex H yes it’s an older version of sspx halfway house.

[@maximussuffarion7767]

Consider Orthodoxy brother

[@ahankish]

@@maximussuffarion7767 You’re several years late friend: I was chrismated last year!

[@maximussuffarion7767]

@@ahankish woah Glory to God

[@matthouston4068]

Thanks for the video Jay! Also, the "bibliography" is most usedul

[@maxguita12]

The photo in this video is all you need to disprove sedevacantism! God bless Jay Dyer!

[@HeroQuestFans]

I don't think this line of thinking actually helps exclusivist claims of Eastern Orthodoxy. what of the problems caused by converts from other Christian groups (especially Evangelicalism) to Orthodoxy in recent years? what of the problems with the schisms within the East, and the negative effects of the Soviet world upon it? this would just be an opening for an "Oriental Orthodox" to jump in and say these "changes" and "schisms" and "apostasies" are the leverage they need to promote themselves as the one true Church. and the Assyrian Church of the East can jump in, etc. Protestants reach back in time and try to claim (some of them do) that their beliefs were always around, that the logical development of the disputes was that Sola Scriptura was what God always intended to become the sole infallible rule of faith after the Apostolic age. they will claim that anonymous Christians always existed who extolled their views, regardless of what the saints, doctors or Fathers had to say on the matter. we can all agree that Christ didn't fail when he said he would build his Church on earth and that it would never die before his glorious return at the end of humanity... but this "let's go back to the golden age right before this great apostasy" is a doomed exercise. if we cherry pick enough we can declare anyone to be apostate. a protestant can just deflect any criticism by saying its not one denomination that has it right, but whoever it is that is interpreting the bible correctly are the true Christians (and of course always include themselves). and since when is Orthodoxy against intellectualism? it's not obscurantist, and not in favor of blind faith... if intellectualism is wrong, then let's throw out the Patristic writers who wasted their careers using their intellects, and philosophy to teach and defend the path from the Apostles. let's throw out Paul and his "scholastic" arguments in the book of Acts and in other places with the gentiles. let's ignore the councils and creeds. what is the alternative? biblical literalism and feelings based blind faith? God forbid. I agree with you that sedevacantism (and its cousin "conclavism") is heretical, self-contradictory and silly, but it's not an easy leap therefore to anti-("Roman") Catholicism.

[@miltonteixeira7035]

Thank you Jay Keep up your good works

[@NJP9036]

Thanks for this very informative video.

[@jjeanniton]

How about the SEEDYBACONTISTS?

[@RealDukeOfEarl]

They've got a dangerous streak, wouldn't want to rind them up if I were you, you'll get smoked.

[@leifkeating6250]

You should debate Br. Peter Diamond. If you're another individual who has claimed to challenge him but he "rejected" your challenge, where's your proof?

[@PhilipCunningham1788]

Is there such a thing as Western Orthodox? Say like the reverse of Eastern Catholic.

[@СаваСтанковић-с7к]

There are Latin Rite parishes who use the liturgy of pope Gregory the Great, if that's what you mean.

[@Val.Kyrie.]

No it’s entirely different. Eastern Catholics keep all orthodox trappings, even down to Saints condemned by the Catholic Church. They simply accept the pope and necessity to have a sole man at the head of the church to save their souls. Western orthodoxy is completely orthodox, no different from any Eastern Orthodox, except for the language and perhaps some variations in the liturgy. It’s the same religion and like all orthodoxy is in the vernacular. There are old lost rites being revived in the west by orthodoxy, many destroyed or forgotten either by Quo Primum or Vatican II.