Selectives Lorecast 06: What is a God?

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Күн бұрын

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@rottendeadite 10 жыл бұрын

Apparently the modifications I made during the stream to make Audrey more audible did not come through in this upload, sorry about that. We'll work closer with Audrey to figure out how to make her sound less like a peep and more like a majestic eagle. Or a cliffracer, whichever you prefer.

@Aramithius 10 жыл бұрын

Cliffracers (possibly) killed off Morrowind's dragons, they're way better than eagles...

@OrionTheAboveAverage 9 жыл бұрын

You say that Talos doesn't show up until c0da, but you forgot Wulf, an aspect of Tiber Septim if that counts.

@tejasrobbins4930 6 жыл бұрын

I was thinking this, I scroll down and its the #1 comment

@Twisted_Logic 10 жыл бұрын

I would also recommend a class on set theory. That (along with Quantum Mechanics) has helped me endlessly in studying lore.

@JoeMazzolaTheFirstPersonCook 10 жыл бұрын

Defining a “god” in the Aurbis: To me, it is a representation of a primordial force. Therefore, the Daedra would be gods as they represent things, the Tribunal represent broader-strokes of things as well (mercy, mystery and mastery; mother, child, father, warrior, thief, mage, etc.), and the Aedra represent other, often more internal forces. Talos represents independence and the will of man, Phynaster (I think?) represents the elven will to transcend the mortal existence, the list goes on. And the Hist do have some sort of connection to souls, at least depending on how you interpret Umbriel and its Fringe Gyre (not an expert). As for Talos, he also appears - probably - in Morrowind as Wulf. Also, really liked the end segment where you lot talk about being lore buffs and becoming lore buffs. Finally, I really need to read the ESO books (and probably play ESO at some point as well). You guys have really sold it to me. So glad the books all got put up on TIL despite me disappearing after only adding like a dozen or so and dumping the rest on Pilaf and Lady Nerevar. (Sorry guys!)

@primedog100 10 жыл бұрын

redguards are actually my favorite race

@primedog100 10 жыл бұрын

them and wood elves, argonians, and khajiit

@primedog100 4 жыл бұрын

@Amatsumagasuchi and?

@GT-wj3gl 7 жыл бұрын

Wait I thought all humans were descended from Wandering Ehlnofey.

@Duskstone89 3 жыл бұрын

To my knowledge, they are, yeah, so that threw me for a loop as well. I'm pretty sure every playable race in the TES games are descendants of the Ehlnofey, with the exception of the Argonians who were created by the Hist.

@jestergodfield690 9 жыл бұрын

sounds like the lizards look at them as "older/oldest lifeforms" that know more and look to them as parental guidance's more so than Gods.

@Aramithius 10 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the answers to my questions, all! Was helpful. And you got the pronunciation right. At least insofar as artificially constructed words used by (as far as I know) only one person can actually have a pronunciation. Thinking on your point on where subgradient first appears, the word itself isn't mentioned but the concept is definitely there in Morrowind itself. Baladas mentions that "It was unfashionable among the Dwemer to view their spirits as synthetic constructs three, four, or forty creational gradients below the divine." Not sure if this has any bearing on anything significant. But I do have a possible suggestion on the point of oceans. The Anuad considers that the oceans weren't part of the initial shape of Nirn, but were "fallout" from the war between the Ehlnofey. I don't know if there are any other sources on this, but that's the only one I can remember. If this is the case, it seems to me that oceans aren't exactly memory as such, but almost an embodiment of epistemic distance and fragmentation, potentially forgetfulness. This puts me squarely in the position that TES doesn't need an ocean god, as the oceans (as well as the Waters of Oblivion, if they are distinct from each Prince's plane) are manifestations/reflections of incompleteness and/or damage to something. If that's the case, maybe Trinimac or Nir is the closest we get to a TES ocean deity as both are maimed and incomplete, but as I said I'm not sure that's necessary.

@rottendeadite 10 жыл бұрын

RE: Oceans, there's two ways to interpret that. One is that the oceans were formed during the Ehlnofey wars, in which case you could say they were formed as memories were produced. The other is the way we explained it. Also, I think you're right, that thinking of ocean water as LITERALLY MEMORY is a mistake. The metaphor of the drowned lamp is important here.

@Aramithius 10 жыл бұрын

True enough, the Lamp does add something to that concept. Although the idea of it as literal memory could do some cool things too... it would add particular colour to sea-madness. Being surrounded by all that memory, in a similar way that the Redguards consider sand, is bound to do things to your head (are the oceans where personalities go, like souls go to the Dreamsleeve?). I have more ideas on this that I need to do some reading to properly flesh out. Are there any more sources on the Drowned Lamp apart from the Scripture of Numbers? On two more completely unrelated notes, if Amaranth is a subgradient of mortal death, how did Anu achieve it? He's several subgradients away from mortality. It feels to me like the Amaranth isn't a subgradient, but a state which can be achieved any any creational gradient. This would give mortality a hard definition, insofar as mortality = the inability to sub-gradate (if that's a word). And yet another question has occurred to me, what does "the sacred" mean for the Elder Scrolls? I can't see much that indicates a sacredness or profanity to much in the game, but that might just be the way it's presented, without flashing lights to signify it etc. Is there anything that is sacred without being divine (sacred spaces etc)? What makes it so? This might just be me not registering it, but apart from the *coughnotNimlothcoughcough* tree quest in Whiterun, it's missing.

@jaymes8132 6 жыл бұрын

I've noticed many similarities between Elder Scrolls religions and the belief system of Gnosticism. Lorkhan = the demiurge Daedra = archons Anui-El = the higher creator Auri-El = Christ

@jagnestormskull3178 3 жыл бұрын

That breaks down when you realize that Auri-El was wrong. And didn't the archons help the demiurge create the world according to most gnostic belief systems? Wouldn't that make the other Aedra/Ehlnofey archons? The Daedra rejected the Mundus project.

@b1praetorian738 5 жыл бұрын

Redguard for life. I hope we get to explore Yakuda in ES6.

@jagnestormskull3178 3 жыл бұрын

How are we gonna explore something that's under the sea?

@samiezzi6143 5 жыл бұрын

If morrowind has taught me anything. You can kill a god if you brew a dozen potions of fortify strength 1000.

@oujimandias6485 3 жыл бұрын

Oh, that's just the being a Shezzarine. Or widely, being Anu having fun in his dream. If anything Elder Scrolls taught me, one is still lonely even attaining the Amaranth.

@Palafico3 Жыл бұрын

Nirn was mostly land at the beginning, not water. The oceans were formed when the wars shattered the continents.

@daemonvelaryon5617 7 жыл бұрын

talos is definitely a god, he was that mysterious old soldier in morrowind.

@oujimandias6485 3 жыл бұрын

Ah, the soldier with the lucky coin.

@b1praetorian738 4 жыл бұрын

Each race is a sub gradient of a god? So would soul stacking a race, revive a god?

@marcwainwright7746 4 жыл бұрын

Interesting application with the Dwemer in the context of Lorkhan. Like maybe trying to create a new body for himself.

@oujimandias6485 3 жыл бұрын

There's the Orsimer, so...

@MarilynMalkovich Ай бұрын

Wouldnt aetherius be a subgradient of oblivion? Itself a subgradient of the void?

@Xx2177CookxX 10 жыл бұрын

My college does not have a comparative religion course, though I am interested in the subject. Would anyone know if simply buying a book will be enough, or if there is a better method of learning?