Self-driving trains - BBC London News

[@HigherQualityUploads]

When I was younger I had thought that all trains were automated since I never saw the driver 😅

[@Bobrogers99]

When constructing new lines, computer-driven trains makes sense. Retrofitting older lines would be hugely expensive, so I think it will be a while.

[@Mgameing123]

Its still cheaper than building a new line.

[@Inferno-ob9td]

When a foreigner takes someone’s job they get all angry. When a robot does it’s a whole different story. Shows how human nature works, jealousy is a real thing

[@jannat7476]

Truly agree machine taking over

[@kenkichiotaka4275]

So true, sometimes people can be so mean.

[@nickUK88]

People are rightly jealous of immigrants taking jobs on the basis of 'positive discrimination ' if someone is given a Job it should be on merit, not because you come from a shithole country.

[@wibbers4578]

Its not just peoples jobs, its your hospital bed, and school places. Its not "jealousy", its the deterioration of the average British quality of life.

[@Inferno-ob9td]

Centurion Guy stfu. Go into education and stop sitting on your ass. Foreigners aren’t getting good professions like doctor etc. For no reason, but they’ve worked their ass off, you can’t just get a job like that. It’s not easy

[@SOPM944]

First they remove guards and put his responsibilities on the driver. Now they're making a computer do the bulk of a drivers work, and making him do the safety checks that a guard would do...

[@NothingHereButMe]

Some lines on the tube have been ATO since the 60s. The DLR has never had a driver

[@hesterclapp9717]

Yeah, I'm of the opinion that guard-only operation is the best if the infrastructure is available. It's the one bit you can't really do with computers

[@ExplodingPiggy]

@@NothingHereButMe all ATO trains have driver supervisors in the cab at all times.

[@first8956]

computer drives the train, driver closes the doors. genius!

[@superblyrandom9630]

FIRST浪 lol right. 😂

[@Cloudrak]

Ok, just get a train door close on your face then.

[@gabrielbenjamin3171]

The doors open by its self

[@oaz8]

@@gabrielbenjamin3171 its for making sure if it safe to close the door

[@hofimastah]

Ang getting paid 56k for that. And striking all the time. Thank you RMT!

[@Wasserfeld.]

Should've really mentioned this is only between a few meters north of St Pancras to Blackfriars and it cost a massive sum of money to implement. The rest of the route will continue to be operated by the driver as with the rest of the rail network. Unless the government want to stump up over 100 billion to resignal the entire rail network and replace most trains, automatic, let alone driverless operation isn't happening anytime soon

[@james123212]

not to mention that the tech isn't even good enough to handle the the different types of trains on the national rail network, it only works on this part since there is only one type of train operating on it.

[@georgebarlowr]

Because believe it or not older trains were not built for this type of technology! Are you stupid? Obviously other trains won't be able to use it neither would they need to. It is not even the train they are updating they are also updating the tracks with RFID tags acting as beacons so the train can pos report itself. I am not being funny but read the arguement you are making before actually going ahead with it. One of the main reasons for ATO to be introduced on ThamesLink just like all other crowded commuter trains passing through Central London is to maximise efficiency, and only a select few of trains run through Greater London/Central London due to all types of reasons ranging from passenger comfort and how fast they can go. There would be no reason for Network Rail to introduce ATO on every single one of their trains, which is what you are arguing, as the budget for one would not be able to cope with that strain and second of all there just isn't any demand other than the places I have stated and those similar.

[@mikep2099]

The plan is to run 24 trains an hour. This wouldn’t be safe or possible for driver controlled trains to run this close.

[@Class43Harrison]

Phew! That is great to hear! Driverless trains would take away people’s jobs and unemployment would be on the rise and the economy would be on its knees! I’m glad it’s only a short distance, it’s a stupid cost. Totally unnecessary when that sort of money could go into investing in new stock or stations if the NHS, or investing in new younger drivers! Humans anyway have faster response times in an emergency unlike a machine! We have progressed with railways for well over nearly 200 years using good old man power! And that is how it shall remain!

[@nicolasblume1046]

@@mikep2099 not true! S-Bahn munich runs 30 tph without ATO

[@Gorantaylis]

It's a real shame, all the good jobs are the first to be taken over by machines, but the labourious and dull ones will be the last...

[@georgebarlowr]

It's because the 'good jobs' are the most priortisied as the 'good jobs' are the most complex and if we didn't have things like ATO then we wouldn't be able to rely on excellent efficiency on for example the LUL Victoria Line.

[@tgm9991]

Are you really calling shop and warehouse jobs "good" jobs because those are getting a load of automation and those are shitty jobs

[@saltywalrusprkl4175]

ATO isn’t taking any jobs… there’ll always have to be someone sitting in the cab even if they rarely have to drive it in case of emergencies.

[@Drone3774]

Its sad for me to know that my favourite train (which i desire to drive one day) is literally the first step of my desired career becoming redundant

[@tgm9991]

Not the first step at all the first step happened back in the 60s when ATO was first installed on the underground this is just another step

[@Drone3774]

This is the first step for national rail LU was never in the question

[@Class43Harrison]

No. Don’t get yourself down mate. This is only between Blackfriars and St. Pancras. Don’t worry, this driverless malarkey is a load of rubbish and will never happen. It is too costly and a waste of money.

[@tgm9991]

@@Class43Harrison It's hilarious just how wrong you are and keep doubling down

[@tgm9991]

@@Drone3774 Yeah but it wouldn't be used on the national network without decades of being used on metro systems around the world so yeah I'd say starting with the LU in the 60s was the first step

[@jolyonwelsh9834]

Will they need to upgrade the power capacity of the traction substations to handle the extra load?

[@ExperimentRender]

- ATO can distribute train starts accurately and dynamically. This allows better use of the same traction power system. - Driverless ATO can even reliably start a train to the regenerative stop of a second train. This vastly improves use of regenerated power in DC areas. Like a railway relay race.

[@sirkeg1]

The first sentence sounded like it was narrated by a robot. Had to listen to it twice to understand. Still poorly worded. "Commuting into London today from Hartfordshire, a first on mainland trains, at St. Pancras, look, no hands.

[@nothisispatrick5725]

If you want to put more trains in why not just make signal sections smaller

[@michaelvangerwen1052]

Because then you would have to reduce line speed

[@JamesSmith-zv9nw]

This is sort of what they have done but with the ERTMS signalling there are no ‘aspects’ only a speed curve which the train follows so it stops in time.

[@Class43Harrison]

Exactly. Good old drivers! We have got to live train drivers! Good old man power for well over nearly 200 years! And that’s how it shall remain! With drivers!

[@joshuaknight1130]

The chairs on them trains is like sitting on an iron board!

[@Interdimensional27]

I understand they are known as "ironing board seats" for this very reason...that and their resemblance to one when observed side on

[@tob19]

Yeah I hope that doesn’t happen for the ECML

[@tgm9991]

They are updating the signalling system on the ECML but automatic trains would be a long way of

[@theblacktrainboy373]

This was the same train i looked at in 2014 yet i never get to go on it

[@gregfcht910]

And we wonder why jobs are going

[@transportflick923]

Greg Fcht the driver is still needed to close the door even on the dlr

[@bfapple]

What bs comment is this? ATO means driver being retained.

[@MikeWillSee]

ATO is only used in the core, on the majority of the network they're still driven manually

[@rahan573]

What about the DLR? They had this technology aswell.

[@atent5124]

But it wasn't for as long.... You know the d!r used to be manually driven too?

[@MikeWillSee]

@@atent5124 I believe it was always automatic actually

[@MikeWillSee]

This is not new technology, just new to this line

[@atent5124]

@@MikeWillSee No it was manually driven at its early stage

[@MikeWillSee]

@@atent5124 I thought it was automatic from opening, that being part of the appeal of the line. But the lines incorporated into it were probably manual (before they were DLR)

[@crispygrass5008]

I want that job

[@JoeyCbr]

How does it know when to apply the brakes, it can’t be GPS in the tube?

[@ReNewReViews1]

Embedded ATO guidance computers in the track, they look like small yellow boxes every few feet

[@franki3Ru550]

SO WAIT.. WHAT HAS IMPROVED FROM THE 1968 TECHNOLOGY AND NOW?

[@Interdimensional27]

Mainly things like speed control-the 1968 system only had three speeds. Slow, fast and stop! Also the ability to communicate with other trains on the same line rather than sending everything through the central control system. Better diagnostics and reporting too

[@britannia55]

Ya but with a crappy timetable

[@GetToDaChoppa-k5r]

that's great. More people out of work then. What are the solutions?

[@lenmarfox2947]

Self driving cars, self driving trains, everyone is going to be out of work thanks to this. This Gerry McFadden is saying (Capacity increase) which in short means more money for profit.

[@scottpeacock5492]

Lenmar Fox, No train drivers will be out of work, Thameslink will still be employing these drivers to carry out safety checks and to control the doors.

[@velvetbaize805]

It means a better service and lower costs should be felt by the consumer as a result.

[@lenmarfox2947]

Lucien Jasinski but will it? with privatisation brought in by the tories, companies are run for profit, not as an essential service.

[@lenmarfox2947]

Scott Peacock true but that will still mean less work and less work normally means less money. Many things used to be done by hand but now with technology taking over, replacing jobs that means more unemployed, look at companies when you call up a company you had call centers, you now have technology that gives you choices which might sound great but it results in being on hold for 99.9% of the time. One manager whom I sadly knew said "Who cares about the staff, think of the wages were saving."

[@velvetbaize805]

Lenmar Fox and for profit seems to function very well everywhere else. Food and water is a nessecity for human life yet I definitely don't want change to the status quo of the profit seeking supermarkets. It's easy to peddle the image of capitalism as a gready man's game with no heart or compassion.... But it invariably is the best thing we have. In regards to the trains if the customer is getting a better price and service then I don't mind the company earning more profit as a reward. The alternative is they don't upgrade, they don't improve their profit margins, eventual things start to cost more to run, you get worse service and you undoubtedly get ticket prices rising.

[@SquirrelKnight50]

Rip train driver's...

[@scottpeacock5492]

It not rest in peace train driver, Thameslink will still have driver on board for safety checks and to control the doors. The auto pilot will only take over once inside the Thameslink core canal tunnel at Finsbury Park and the driver will take over beyond Brighton.

[@scottpeacock5492]

alec, Eh news jobs, Is everyone working in the tv or radio news industry, lol

[@scottpeacock5492]

Alec, Also how would these drivers be pay less, if Thameslink are still employing the drivers to carry out safety checks and to control the doors, Thameslink will still have these drivers on board to control the rest of the journey.

[@james123212]

the core maybe ATO but the rest of the route is still driver controlled and the drivers would be required to have the training and route knowledge for the core anyway in case of equipment failure.

[@antoniowilson201]

The Milano underground (line M1-M3) uses a very similar system from Siemens: drivers never drive, only press the door lock button and the start button. In addition, drivers are strictly forbidden to drive: driving the train would result in heavy disciplinary sanctions, driving only if there are faults in the signaling or the automatic driving system. It is not even possible to correct the automatic driving: as soon as the throttle or brakes are moved, it is deactivated, to reactivate it the train must be stationary. You drive manually only in depot. PS: a long time ago, there was a slowdown not managed by the automatic system: the drivers did not know how to drive because they never did it for a long time, maybe years. So when the train arrived at the station before the slowdown, the change of drivers took place: the train was manually guided by an instructor, overcame the slowdown not managed by the automatic system and in the next station a new driver came on board and went down the instructor. Nobody knows how to drive, and the company prohibits manual driving. You travel with the commands on 0.

[@ibrahimjalloh6603]

All they Need to have Now Is Automatic Amtrak that Drives From Country To Country

[@Vladishit_Putler]

and imagine this pr*ck not being happy with 60k salary... for just sitting there like a cardboard cutout

[@grassytramtracks]

ATO is only in place for 4 miles of an up to 100+ mile route

[@theblacktrainboy373]

Wno here is British

[@learnunique9946]

Is a huge achivement for a Germany 👍

[@Class43Harrison]

I dont like driver less trains.

[@tgm9991]

Why? Automation will always be safer than using humans as humans are dumb and dangerous and in the case of human train drivers 100s of signals are passed at danger by them each year that's something that would be almost unheard of with automation

[@Class43Harrison]

@@tgm9991 I still diasagree. What is better than a human brain?

[@tgm9991]

@@Class43Harrison so you'd rather something be subject to human error which could lead to an accident and get people killed then replace it by something that's much less susceptible to it where people are killed less often? And something that's been designed and built by many human brains and extensively tested and improved on by many more is what's better then a human brain.

[@Class43Harrison]

@@tgm9991 humans have faster reaction times in an accident. They have eyes 👀. Not machines. We have done so far in well over nearly 200 years with railways, using good old elbow grease and drivers! Why should you be in favour of driverless trains. They take away people’s jobs for goodness sake! Unemployment will rise! You just can’t see that! We have come so far. What has a machine got that a good old human got? Good old man power I say!

[@tgm9991]

@@Class43Harrison your wrong most accidents are because humans are at the controls. They can get different jobs and stop liking your own posts it's sad asf

[@thespicyicecubexd_8932]

Transport keeps getting lazier and lazier.

[@trainrover]

the audacity! behind producing that dingiest fleet of the world's...we islanders have been known for being vain, those trains'd never fly here if you will...

[@KPTHR3]

So what if someone hacks into the train system? You’ve now got a 100mph Train out of control.

[@user-jg8fg4qp3x]

KayPeaThree 3 - The (usually) system is local and cannot be externally accessed, when it is, there is an E-Stop and override.

[@bfapple]

Computerised trains have been in operation since the 60s, ahem. You don’t think the train will be designed to stop automatically if anything at all is amiss?

[@TheRocket1615]

The trains still have drivers on board who can (presumably) override the automatic control and stop the train should the need arise.

[@SuperSuperAllons93]

That's quite obviously been accounted for.

[@jamestalbot1647]

If a train goes through a red light it is automatically derailed by the system

[@victorpaul904]

🇮🇳💐💐🍁⚘❤ Congratulations Germany I love self driving train system ⚘🍁💐💐🇮🇳

[@jmebag1]

Good. Get rid of the greedy drivers and the unions

[@hassankalam1306]

It really annoys me when people from Northern England watch videos like these and complain that they have pacers there still. No one really cares about the North. Everything happens in London to be honest. We do deserve Crossrail, Thameslink, HS2, Crossrail 2, HS3 and even more. If people are so desperate to see new trains, move to London or wait for the pacers to be replaces in December!!

[@Matty12333]

Hassan Kalam The north still is important, no wonder the country is so divided when you make statements like that. Surely the whole country should be the same

[@tomjsh]

Hassan Kalam the issue isn’t about London not deserving rail upgrades, it certainly does. It’s that we haven’t got anything. Not everyone can live in London. That’s not how the world works. We simply want equal investment per head, which there isn’t anywhere near.

[@lngvly22]

The north has some good parts. But there are a lot of Asians up there unfortunately, I prefer the southeast in that respect

[@Ethan-ik1nm]

I live in London but if everyone lived here, the tube would just get more crowded, more infrastructure would need to be built causing an even greater divide. Don't pretend that if Pacers ran on the central line you wouldn't be fuming

[@Welpie557]

Get them going now. Strikers in the UK are taking the piss

[@SouthLightFX]

Computer controlled trains 🤨 All I'll say there is at least us humans don't need restarting for updates. Has anyone here considered the scanerio of the computer controlling the train, crashing during the journey... then (potentially) causing a physical crash or long delays/bottlenecking. Is this just a step away from the removal of drivers? Or am I just being a confirmed cynical so-n-so? Don't get me wrong; positive progress is usually a good idea, but at the expense of a more fundamental idea... passenger safety! I for one would not feel safe on a computer controlled train, as such I will now never use the Northern Line (Tube).

[@grassytramtracks]

Driverless trains around the world have had a pretty good safety track record. The Northern line still has drivers who can drive when the automatic system fails. That seems like the best of both worlds for safety and redundancy, the computer won't make human errors, and the driver can take over from the computer if that malfunctions

[@macwilko]

I love London but we’re behind, I live in Dubai now and the trains here are all automatic and run much better.

[@PeteS_1994]

London had automatic trains first though in the early 60's. They have the oldest train infrastructure which explains why they are behind.

[@tgm9991]

We've had automation on some underground lines and the DLR for some time now London was amongst the first and building new and having modern signalling systems and automation is so much easier than retrofitting to victorian infrastructure.

[@macwilko]

@@tgm9991 seems like an excuse to me.

[@pikachu8508]

@@tgm9991 The thing is while they are ATO, they are just GOA 2 and 3 so they still need staff onboard for safe operation, Unlike more advanced GoA 4 which can operate unattended.

[@forza223bowe5]

It’s just pathetic. I used to drive trains in ATO mode and it’s so dull and boring

[@HigherQualityUploads]

Then you didn't drive them. You supervised them. Driving trains can be boring as well, though. Just driving the same route over and over again...

[@Brooks__EU]

I mean LZB in Germany is the same thing. you literally supervise it. and ETCS LVL 2 and soon 3 isnt "driving" either :/

[@nasinopuzzolente5396]

​@@Brooks__EU LZB is a system that, even if it allows semi-autonomous driving, needs corrections and assistance, ETCS L2 also needs corrections if it is not supported by an ATO system. The ATO system, on the other hand, has no corrections and does not allow manual driving, so even if you want to participate in driving the train you are not allowed and I believe it is forbidden to drive manually on a route managed by the ATO system, unless it is faulty. The standard LZB or ETCS system cannot be compared in the slightest with an ETCS+ATO system. I believe that when the system is extended to the entire infrastructure in the future, many train drivers will sleep because it will be impossible to remain doing nothing for hours

[@Brooks__EU]

Interestingly the trains i work with have automatic LZB operations. I press start and the train starts and drives fully autonomously. (with outside guidance obviously by the LZB System)

[@thetatcritic4236]

and they're still a shite service

[@kevinlau6372]

robots taking over is fine with me

[@jannat7476]

Very soon there would be no job left only the company will make money where would all the train drivers go in 5 to 10 years also driverless cars where would all the taxi drivers go technology must stop at least for 5 years

[@scottpeacock5492]

Abdul Bashir Watch the report probably, the reporter said there will still be driver on board for safety checks and to close the doors, no jobs will be lost.

[@james123212]

the ATO section is only on the Thameslink core the rest of the route is still being driven by the driver

[@james123212]

ATO also isnt advanced enough to work well on the national rail network since it cant handle the variety of trains with different performance characteristics, it works in this case since its one type of train running on the section, driver is also still required for doors and safety checks, also while the there is tech can do fully automatic trains where the conditions permit there is no train in the UK that has less than 1 member of train crew including london underground and the DLR.

[@bfapple]

No chance.

[@PeteS_1994]

Trains last long and signalling takes a long time. So in 5-10 years there will still be plenty of train drivers.

[@ibrahimjalloh6603]

You Know What’s Gonna Happen the Hyperloop company is Gonna End up Buying Amtrak How Much Do you wanna Bet

[@stephthestar90]

Still hasn't improved their services though, if the last week is anything to go by