Selmer Mark VI vs Selmer SA80 II

[@billducker7404]

Excellent. Thank you so much. I can hear why the 6 has been the most sought after saxophone of all time. My clarinet teacher in the fifties had such a model. I still have that sound in my head today Thank you for posting. God bless you and yours. Bill. UK

[@SaxSpy]

thank you for the kind words, Bill!

[@colinevans9377]

Interesting, having owned both a 6 and a SA80 II tenor, I can hear the same differences in alto. The 80 being slightly brighter and possibly fractionally louder, but the 6 has that core thing that middle frequency sizzle thing that makes it special. I vote for the 6.

[@eriksax]

Thank you for this video that easily demonstrates the similarities and differences between these instruments. Great job, this really quantifies and clarifies everything for us that do not have access to both of these Selmers at the same time.

[@SaxSpy]

thank you!

[@ianshaw7052]

Thank you for posting this! I found your breakdown of the design features of both horn very instructive. I will start to follow each of these posts. I preferred the overall tone of the Mark Six. In terms of comparison, I was struck by how similar the horns are but I feel that speaks to your musicianship rather than the actual horns. The Mark Six has more "substance" to the tone that goes beyond good mechanical design to allow the player to get inside the sound they are hearing. I would likely get more satisfaction from playing the overtone series, for example, from the Six. Again splitting hairs and these horns are both excellent. Great point about getting the horn, any horn, set up professionally. Take care and thank you!

[@ramsudama4133]

I have an 80 Jubilee c. 2012, so I'm biased, but I also found the VI to be slightly "warmer". The differences, however, are so slight and would vary from player to player, and wouldn't justify the 3x price for me. There's also the variability of vintage horns and the on-going maintenance issues. I'll stick with my 80. Thanks for this.

[@SaxSpy]

Repair is certainly a big factor in the price of a vintage horn

[@leycroft5031]

I have a jubilee neck for my pre jubilee horn it has a more centred sound than the original . Imo

[@owenwalter451]

Dude your alto sound is killer

[@SaxSpy]

thank you!

[@LuanneFose]

Thank you for playing the same music excerpts on both saxophones. So many players on KZbin show comparisons, but they want to show off how great they can play and then it is hard to really compare. Ergonomics are important, but in the end, for me, it is all about the sound. I do not own a Selmer but for me, the Mark VI shone here in terms of sound over the 80. Would love to hear a ballad clip on some of these comparisons too. :-) Good video!

[@SaxSpy]

my goal is to make it easy to compare and show off other great players like Jason, Andrew and Nick! Maybe my next horn vid can have a ballad excerpt

[@LuanneFose]

@@SaxSpy Thanks, Sax Spy. That would be awesome!

[@grantkoeller8911]

The tonal core of the Mark 6, is ultra centered and focused, where as with the Super action 80 series 2, I hear a wider ,slightly darker tone.

[@grantkoeller8911]

You never talked about the necks, if they would fit if switched. I'm curious about the internal bore measurements.

[@TheGrizNation]

Sound just flows out of the VI, while it's more desperate to get out of the SAII. I have a SAII and a VII and love both but have an easier time actually playing on the VII. Awesome job hitting those super high notes btw!

[@johan0234523]

Listening with headphones, both saxes sounded much more alike than I would have thought. To me, the VI sounded a bit darker indeed (as commented already), but I found the brigher sound of the SA80 actually pleasing. Thanks for this extensive comparison!

[@johnspiby9793]

i love this video. I felt like you had the ability to make the 80 sound extremely close to the 6. Given the legend of 'awe' surrounding the mark 6, I would be extremely interested in people's reactions to a 'blind' comparison.

[@SaxSpy]

thank you for your support!

[@ryanstrohman7429]

Huh. To my ears the 6 sounded darker and fuller - the 80 was a little punchier and brighter

[@SaxSpy]

It seems that behind the horn, I felt different things. Great to see different perspectives

[@mambojazz1]

@@SaxSpy I can see that. The Super Action 80 is perhaps more spread and less focused than the Mark VI so it makes sense that on your side of the instrument you may hear more sound coming back at you. Thanks for the video. To me I feel from watching this that the Mark VI us wortg the extra money

[@FLRds407]

Would be cool to do a video on the underated Mark VII. I’ve never seen an actual Mark VII alto review vid in my life lol

[@SaxSpy]

Check out my tenor review of the VII

[@SaxSpy]

but yes, would love to do alto soon!

[@jazldazl9193]

I've had 4 or 5 Mark VI altos including a low A version, but traded for a super balanced action. I think that against the 6m Conn, SML, Martin Magna and King super 20 are the affordable/available candidates. Much as the vintage horns have a richness to their tone, and investment value, consider the preferable ergonomics/intonation of modern horns like Yanagisawa/Yamaha. It seems many of the Taiwanese horns present excellent value also

[@hughsmithau33]

Great comparison Derek! I personally like the Selmer Mark IV Alto better than the Super action Alto!

[@SaxSpy]

Thanks, Hugh!

[@alanpavel361]

The Mark VI had a little more bite and that sweet tonal core.

[@StevenMessino444]

I have had both as Tenors and for playability give me the 6 for intonation give me the 80.

[@YoungWilliamO]

Man, for me, it is hard to tell any difference, mostly because you are such a good player everything is so uniform. Would it be fair to say that the SA is a little more "focused" than the vi? Either way, brilliant stuff. The biggest thing for me is the excellent price comparison! Hard to argue with a solid SA these days.

[@HonestSaxSound-unEdited-]

Many thanks for your excellent comparisson. M6 is a little bit warmer and focused for me... but only a little bit, and to much expensive..

[@JiveDadson]

The Super Action "SBA" (pre Mk VI) alto was a monster. I do not know of a better alto. Engravers can fix the engraving on re-lacquered horns (almost?) undetectably.

[@mikebullock8196]

HI SAX SPY WELL I THOUGHT THE MARK 6 VINTAGE HAD MUCH MORE DIFINTION IN THE TONE AND MELODIES U PLAYED THAN THE SUPER ACTION 80 2 SO FOR MY LIKING I LIKE THE MARK6 VINTAGE IT JUST HAD MORE BODY AND DEPTH IN THE SOUND AND THE TONE ,THAN THE SUPER ACTION 80 WHICH I FOUND JUST VERY BRIGHT IN THE SOUND THANKS FOR YOUR VIDEO S I HOPE U MAKE A VIDEO WITH A selmer ALTO MARK 6 1967 compared to a 5 digit selmer mark 6 alto thanks for your video GEAT JOB ALL THE BEST FAN MIKE

[@ruicalcada6149]

Dois saxofones de topo...concordo com alguns dos comentarios, o mark 6 tem um timbre mais cheio e rico..e uns graves mais profundos, o serie 2 mais para musica classica ( tenho um igual), o 6 mais para Jazz. Tenho um tenor Mark 7...e é brutal para Jazz ..o metal é mto espesso sentes o metal vibrar nas tuas maos...é um timbre mto bom mesmo...

[@danielstainier793]

Thank you very much You make them both sound great It’s hard to tell, eyes closed, wich is wich.

[@TedMaciag]

I'm sorry to disagree, but the MK6 sounded fuller. The 80 was a little brittle in comparison. That however is due to the differnces in the metal. Otherwise, I think you're spot on. Best of luck to you.

[@SaxSpy]

I'd love to find a way to test the metal composition

[@mirosawlewandowski7865]

Super Action 80 Series II beautiful sound, what serial number ?

[@mirosawlewandowski7865]

I understand, stolen :)

[@elliotwoo6127]

just me or was the 6 darker than the SA80

[@joukopartanen6656]

The sound and quality of Mark VI's from the fifties is agreed by everybody but what about the later alto models - say on 1972. It's still Mark VI! Any experience? Anybody? They are cheaper but are they for a reason??

[@SaxSpy]

later ones can be really good and the price on them is fantastic! Some say they sound thinner but they play more in tune and don't gurgle

[@Ambaryerno]

Ehm, no. They don't agree. The quality of the Mark VI varies widely from horn to horn, and there's a LOT of bad or mediocre Mark VIs out there, including from the lauded 1950s 5-digit horns. I know, I HAD one (c.1956-57). There's a reason I sold it in favor of my Bueschers.

[@엘라-e1k]

oh nice vs content. thank you so much

[@SaxSpy]

thank you!

[@raularanda2036]

Nice vídeo. I would like they conparisson between the mark VI and the reference. the series II has the most thinner sound if all the Selmers maybe is good for classic only

[@leycroft5031]

Another good video i agree the SA 80 is pitchy" higher up buf better aroind low D . Imo. My YAS 111 neck improves the higher normal range but limits the open rich aspect of the SA80 Series 2. P.S. its a YAS 62 111 neck i used .

[@SaxSpy]

Interesting, did the neck need to be refit?

[@leycroft5031]

No it fits no problem i dont use the Yamaha neck on the Selmer i just wanted to see if the same perfect octave on middle B to high B would replicate on the Selmer with the YAS neck and it does .

[@xander9564]

Both great, but 6 for the win.

[@javominetube]

Nice review. Thank you

[@SaxSpy]

thank you!

[@josephstratemeier8619]

The mark vi sounds better to me. Warmer sound with more core. I've always hated the keywork of the series 2 so I'd get the vi even though it's pretty pricey.

[@SaxSpy]

The key work is very different! You can see me struggle on the SA-80ii on the chromatic scale, low Bb

[@josephstratemeier8619]

Yeah I do the B to Bb slide too. You mentioned that you're left hand feels moved over more. That's what I hate about them. I've always preferred the mark vi/Yamaha style where the keys feel more offset from center.

[@Danox94]

I'd choose the VI, if only because of the darker lacquer

[@EmperorKingBishop]

I feel, the qualities of the 6 can be achieved on the 80 with practice. The 80 is a difficult horn to play at times but I will say that it’s worth it. The sound and how it feels is unmatched.

[@mangben2493]

Can u help i have mind with 6digits serial number one on the body and one on tthe bell. ? without engrave and keys are silver and the body is gold.

[@SaxSpy]

sounds like a french model to me

[@grantkoeller8911]

To my ears, the Mark 6 sounded deeper, more focused, and centered. The Super Action 80 series II being over braced and way heavier had a different tone that seemed thinner and more diffused. The Mark 6 just sings with a fuller tone, faster ergonomics. Go back to video and look at spacing between G and G# pearls, on the Mark 6 it's perfect, however on the Super Action it's a mile apart.

[@SaxSpy]

thanks, Grant!

[@ianwhatmough150]

I bet if the high F# was removed from the Super Action 80 Serie II you would get closer to the MK VI. Removing a bit of weight would make a big difference to the resonance of the horn. I think that's why most people find the MK VII so different, it's a really heavy horn.

[@grantkoeller8911]

@@ianwhatmough150 agreed

[@mburton120]

I preferred the VI but as you said it could be you are more familiar with it. Sounded fuller.

[@SaxSpy]

thanks!

[@FernandoFerreira-kf6kz]

My C# on my action 80 2 has always been really flat.

[@grantkoeller8911]

Use special fingering to raise pitch, add G finger and octave key. This will raise pitch.

[@ryanstrohman7429]

Adding side C works great for me

[@alunorb4771]

I have the same issue. I am going to try the suggestions in the replies.

[@SkylerinAmarillo]

Why is this video titled that it is comparing a Mark VII? As for me, I am the original owner of my MkVII. I love it and would never trade it for a MkVI.

[@marcogue_]

Beautifull channel, but I’d prefer a Mark VI vs Mark VII alto like with tenor

[@SaxSpy]

As soon as I get my hands on a VII! I'll certainly be making more :)

[@benhostetler268]

The Mark VI overall is a better horn for everything but classical. While the intonation isn’t perfect on the VI it allows for a wider tonal palette 🎨 and in the video you really here the VI strut it’s stuff in the altissimo and on the bell keys. Both have that Selmer Sound but the VI is simply superior for most Genres.

[@stangetz534]

Great. Would be interesting to do a jubilee vs pre jubilee alto test. hahaaha. The six is special but old and fragile. The 80 ii is new and has its own thing.

[@jimstead1002]

What’s the going price for a second had Selmer MK VI?

[@SaxSpy]

tenor $5-12k, they vary wildly

[@Ambaryerno]

Too much, especially considering quality on the Mark VI varies SIGNIFICANTLY, and there's a lot more "Meh" horns out there than there are the good ones. Simply being what it is inflates the value of the horn beyond what it's actually worth. The Mark VI is by far the worst offender of this practice, but you see it happen with Kings, too.

[@alexscaggs8406]

fantastic video quality i personally dont like selmer saxophones ( i like yamaha and cannonball) but very enjoyable to watch

[@SaxSpy]

Thank you! I'll have to do one on Yamaha's soon.

[@tpark89]

I find most Mark VIs sound very good but everyone seems to more or less go for the same sound so I'm actually a bit tired of their sound... I get more excited when I hear people sounding really good on saxophones of other makers and models.

[@SaxSpy]

Danny Janklow is a cat who makes a Yamaha sound great! but that being said, finding a modern not based on a vi is very difficult

[@tpark89]

@@SaxSpy that's true but I was thinking not just modern horns but also vintage horns. I'm a big fan of Conn and Martin instruments. For gigs I play my Mark VI alto to blend with all the other Selmer saxes but for my own enjoyment and for lessons I tend to gravitate toward my Martin alto :)

[@PravinPatel-cn8np]

Very very very good and nice. 👌👌👍👍🌹🌹🙏🙏🙏

[@billiongenius]

Honestly didn’t hear any highly distinctive differences. Blindfolded, I don’t think I could accurately identify the correct horn across every comparison. I think you must just be a very consistent player as well, as your phrasing and everything was very comparable in every sample, which I think made it more clear what the differences are (i.e, not that much). I don’t doubt that others can hear differences, and may even be able to accurately identify each sample blindfolded, but I don’t think I could. I’ve played for over 25 years, but not as a full time working pro; just on the side, if that means anything.

[@SaxSpy]

sometimes that's a problem on sessions... each take is identical lol. But it is true that they are more alike than not

[@mariogordon4125]

The 6 sounded a bit warmer to me. But, it wasn't much of a difference. They both sounded great. Considering the huge difference in price, I know which way I would lean. I have a ('46) Balanced Action alto that I love, but hardly ever play anymore. My P. Mauriat 67R is just more solid, top to bottom than my BA. Go figure!

[@SaxSpy]

I'd love to hear the BA some time!

[@mariogordon4125]

@@SaxSpy Ok. It's in decent playing condition now, but needs a little minor work. It seems to need more care than other altos I've owned, but when in tip-top shape it's a sweet old horn w/the fastest action I've ever played on...

[@zangsax]

As a player and sax tech of decades i find the serie Iii feels better and sounds more like a six when I play than the serie II.

[@keithcampbell6806]

Good morning bro the proud owner of a series 11 tenor sax l recently acquired. The intonation is better than any mark vi and it cost far less Selmers generally are overrated and overpriced.

[@grantkoeller8911]

You never discussed how the low Bb and low B pad cups are totally different sizes.

[@trhuffer]

Brighter? Darker? Who really knows what these mean? Differences to me here are very slight, I might say the SA80II had slightly more clarity/focus than the VI. I'd be easily fooled between these two in a blind comparison though. So just that little bit "more" of what distinguished the VI from the earlier/American horns in the first place anyway! A continuation of the trend already started in 1954? I'm 100% certain many, most, if not all of the differences you'd experience playing these two side-by-side would come from the fact stated, that the SA80II was not your regular horn and seldom played.

[@Ambaryerno]

Headline: Most Overrated Alto Saxophone, you mean. If you find a good one, well, good for you. The problem is there's a LOT more Ho-Hum or Mediocre Mark VIs out there than there are the good ones, and many are just plain BAD. I had a Mark VI in college. It was one of the "early" 5-digit serials (1956-1957) that everyone is after. It was...ok. It was sold and set up by Mark Overton of Saxquest, so it had a good, professional setup. But the bottom end was a chore to get out without really honking, it was prone to stuffiness, intonation was inconsistent, and the overall tone wasn't great. It was a factory relacquer c.1960, and even that was only about 50-65% intact. When I sold it three or so years ago it was in need of a full overhaul as well. I STILL got $4000 for it. I now have two Bueschers. My main horn is a 1940 Big B Aristocrat picked up this past year, and I also have a 1945 Top Hat & Cane (bought before I sold my VI) as a backup. Those two horns - original lacquer ~95% intact, the TH&C has all of its silver work, and both have all of the snap-in resos and Norton springs - COMPLETELY blow my Mark VI away, yet I bought them both combined for less than I sold that Mark VI for (I also have a Series IV soprano. Some idiot removed the snaps but the silver plate is almost immaculate. Add that on and all three Bueschers were bought for only about $800 more than I sold the Selmer for). They both have that booming and responsive Buescher bottom end, intonation is spot-on from top to bottom, and in terms of pure tone the Buescher has NO rival even today (except maybe a good Conn 6M). Also, the Buescher LH table is by FAR more natural and intuitive than the Selmer table (your pinky isn't designed to move across like that. It's designed to move forward/backward. C# to Bb on the VI was a nightmare, but on the Buescher I can skip right across the B). I'd put those two Bueschers up against even the best Mark VI

[@trhuffer]

Meh...preferences...mythology...nostalgia...stubbornness...dogma...all play their roles here. The relevant (and irrelevant?) considerations go way beyond what 99% of players should be concerning themselves with vs. what, how, and how much they are practicing daily! The saxophone is a machine and a tool -- it should be accurate, efficient, durable, and the right tool for the desired task. If it isn't, I might still *want and envy* it for its unique tone, heirloom value, etc. -- but not to have to play every day and making things more difficult than they should be, with better, modern tools. The OP's demonstration here is proof enough for me that the huge selection of modern tools (horns, necks, 'pieces, ligs, reeds...) can get you 99% (or more) to anywhere you want to be vs. any vintage instrument (or mouthpiece).

[@zangsax]

These things are obvious . Ive been a pro for 50 yrs and sax tech for thirty. People who remind zealots of these obvious things concerning equipment ignore maybe the most important factor once you can manipulate the instrument properly. That is, how does the instrument make you feel when you play it aurally and physically. Response, tone etc because if you can play you respond to these things unless you are just blowing into it to create a generic sound thats in tune. Some horns make you feel wonderful and creative when you play them and some dont. I have found after working on hundreds of saxophones and owning at one time or another about a hundred that unless a mark vi is worn out if a VI is not good to great it has not been set up properly by an experienced tech with a lot of playing experience as well. If you approach each horn as if it is your own and you want the best out of it -it will play well when your done and don’t forget proper neck fitting. I wish I didnt have $ issues and still had my 80k and 62k tenors and my 58k and 50k and 21k altos.

[@JorisPosthumus]

mmmm, selmer serie 2 you call vintage?

[@SaxSpy]

some people call the 90s the late 1900s

[@javierquesada798]

both sound the same the mouthpiece and the reed are the important thing

[@cgy05]

마크식스11만번 보유중 매우만족 ㅎ

[@grantkoeller8911]

Put both saxophones on a scale and weigh them.

[@SaxSpy]

SA-80ii already sold :(

[@jimstead1002]

Please send email address as I’d like to forward some photos of my MkVi tenor. I live in Spain.

[@SaxSpy]

[e-mail]

[@michaelsin1968]

no difference at all pretty much. it's all a myth.