Sensory Clarity - 2 of 2 - No Self As Thing ~ Shinzen Young

Shinzen continues with the metaphor of the CRT monitor, looking at white on the surface with a magnifying glass, and noticing how white dissolves and red, green, and blue arises. He shares the "skilled butcher chopping up a cow metaphor", and claims that looking close enough at feel, image, and talk will result in the "self as thing" going away, which can be verified as a research project because it's perceptual, as opposed to just conceptual. Penetrating awareness deeper into feel, image, and talk results in the perception of vibrating space, or void. Ultimately the "focusing in" technique harkens back to the early Buddhist notion of seeing through and penetrating the strands of "self", and seeing their empty, impermanent nature. Filmed in May 2009 at Mt. Carmel spiritual Centre in Niagara Falls.

[@PCism]

I'm ever grateful , finding this channel.

[@oozecandy]

Great talk. There is also a comparison here with dreaming. To me, in a dream, it often seems like parts of my logical mind are peeled back- kind of like your red, green blue comparison. Concentrating too much on an object in a dream also often tends to make it go away (so presumably further comparisons in this direction could also be made).

[@mirokusanna]

I love this talk. Please permit one nitpick: perceptual psychologists/neuroscientists actually have figured out how the perception of red, green, and blue lights combine into a perception of white. It happens through "color opponency" processing, which primarily takes place in the lateral geniculate nucleus of the thalamus (frequently shortened to LGN). There are three color-encoding channels carrying information from the thalamus to the primary visual cortex. (continued)

[@richardkollmar903]

(1) When not looking directly or intensely, then white; when investigating intently & paying attention constantly, red, yellow, blue. Apply the same analysis & contemplative work to the perception of mind & consciousness. The so-called "hard problem" dissolves. (2) In mikkyo (secret teachings) the understanding is just what Shinzen articulates at the end of this clip, namely, that what we call "css.,," "experience," & sensory events are conventional readings of vibratory patterns.

[@mirokusanna]

(cont.) White light arises when the signals of Red, Green, and Blue from the retina balance out in the LGN such that neither Red nor Green predominates in the R/G channel (leading to a null R/G signal), and neither Yellow nor Blue predominates in the Y/B channel (also null), but the White signal predominates in the W/Bk signal. This leads to a perception of brightness not associated with any particular color. Magnifying the CRT's image on the retina resolves the image into discrete R/G/B areas

[@mirokusanna]

(cont.) There is a red/green channel, a blue/yellow channel, and a white/black channel. The two elements of each channel are opponents because they inhibit one another -- the combination of yellow and blue light does not produce both yellow and blue signals in the Y/B channel, as the channel can only carry either one signal, or the other, or no signal at all. This light, however, does generate a green signal in the R/G channel, and a white signal in the W/Bk channel (indicating brightness).

[@expandcontract]

Sensory Clarity - 1 of 2 - No Self As Thing ~ Shinzen Young

[@fastfrankblack]

this guy seems SO great to me right now...

[@mirokusanna]

Correction: The white/black channel may not contain an opponency element, since it seems possible to see whitish-black and blackish-white (shades of gray). Colors oppose because you can't see reddish-green or yellowish-blue. But that's a nitpick of a nitpick. Nitpicks aside, this talk has cleared up how the perception of a self vanishes in the face of sufficient clarity and concentration, to be replaced only by sensations lacking the "selfhood" attribute.

[@markbrad123]

Watching is not a separate independent process has been shown by the double slit experiment, rather has a participatory connection. Guess how you look at something changes the wave/particle. My guess is if you concentrate it is more particle. If you spread your attention equally wide and relax it is more wave. To interpenetrate bring the equal wide peripheral into close up - give a feel of particle to outer connection. Then there is the happy medium of empty form between concentration/contracted observation and relaxed attention to get a feel of wave(space) /particle mix i.e empty form. Just guessing.

[@jugsewell]

“People studying the way do not know the real simply because they have been acknowledging the conscious mind. The root of infinite aeons of birth and death, ignorant people call it the original human being.” If learners do not distinguish skillfully, and mistake the conscious mind for the self, this is what is referred to in the teachings as taking a thief for one’s son-the family fortune will never be established. Teachings of Zen Transl. by Thomas Cleary (Kindle Locations 1359-1362). Shambhala Publications. Kindle Edition.

[@mujaku]

Hey Shinzen, this is not a denial of self or atma/attâ: Therefore, Ananda, stay as those who have the self as an island (attadîpâ), as those who have the self as refuge (attasaranâ), as those who have no other refuge; as those who have the dharma as an island, as those who have dhamma as refuge, as those who have no other refuge. - Mahaparinibbana Sutta

[@tim57243]

Can anyone point to part 1

[@bnplaza]

great dharma talk....poor video editing.