Seraphon Strategy - Raptadon Chargers or Hunters?

It's the Chargers. Always go with the Raptadon Chargers! Lol
0:00 Raptadon Chargers
0:37 Warscroll Highlights
3:00 Movement Buffs for Raptadons
6:28 Units that Buff Raptadons
9:00 Avg Damage for Raptadons
10:40 Should you Reinforce?
14:30 Draco List
15:35 Raptadon Spam List
18:52 Koatl's Claw List
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[@CalebHastings]

Raptadons at -3 Rend?!? Yes please!! But... is it too fragile of a glass canon list? Allegiance: Seraphon - Constellation: Dracothion's Tail Slann Starmaster (275)* - General - Command Trait: Arcane Might - Artefact: Spacefolder's Stave - Spell: Comet's Call - Aspect of the Champion: Fuelled by Ghurish Rage Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)* Skink Starpriest (130)** - Spell: Speed of Huanchi Skink Starpriest (130)** - Spell: Speed of Huanchi Battleline 5 x Saurus Guard (130)* 10 x Skinks (85)* 10 x Skinks (85)* Units 5 x Raptadon Chargers (150)** 5 x Raptadon Chargers (150)** 5 x Raptadon Chargers (150)** 5 x Raptadon Chargers (150)** 3x Terrawings (75)* Artillery Spawn of Chotec (125)* Spawn of Chotec (125)** Endless Spells & Invocations Purple Sun of Shyish (90) Core Battalions *Battle Regiment **Battle Regiment Total: 1990 / 2000 Drops: 2

[@realm_of_plastic]

About to build my Raptadons so this was really helpful. Thanks!

[@zachboyce9728]

Love the analysis! As a heads up, you can for sure teleport outside 7” in Fangs, the artifact just says “the next unit to be set up”, so if you sequence the end of your movement right (summon outside 9” then activate the stave) your hero phase teleports will be outside 7”

[@CalebHastings]

Oh... interesting! I hadn't thought of the wording of that rule in this way!

[@adamunciano2327]

Just to clarify, activate slann artefact in movement phase and teleport outside 7" in your FOLLOWING hero phase? I guess you're hoping for the double turn? Or just keep them out of danger during the opponents turn then do the buff/teleport outside 7" in your turn? Genuinely want the starpriest buff to work but seems like a lot of hassle to set up 😣

[@zachboyce9728]

@@adamunciano2327 so for sequencing, the Draco tail deep strike, summoning, and the spacefolder’s stave all specify “at the end of your movement phase”, therefore you as the active player get to pick the order. The artifact reads “the next friendly STARBORNE unit to be set up on the battlefield can be set up more than 7” from all enemy units instead of more than 9””. So for your sequencing, bring in any deep strike units and summon before you activate the artifact, then your next set up effect will be 7” regardless of when. This lets you use the 7” teleport in fangs of sotek for your heroic action, though it still doesn’t solve the starpriest ability. For that one giving them fly from the slann then hero phase moving over your own screens is your best bet (plus that gives you +1 save against unleash hell).

[@zachboyce9728]

This is more of a way to get in the opponent’s head with their movement. If they’re worried about you throwing a strong melee piece outside of 7” that throws a huge wrinkle in their screening. It lets you get 2 more inches of Kroak range too.

[@MegaSmashGaming]

Kroak has a strike-last effect too that could be utilised.

[@trollking000]

Nice i was just wondering is the doubling up on the same spell for just backup if one caster dies?

[@lazygoldfish5001]

I’m definitely gonna be trying out the kroak trog list but I would love to see more koatl claw lists cause those saurus warrior models look to good to not build lists with.

[@hkass1917]

Hello Caleb. I follow your channel on seraphim .. I see that you propose us various and varied lists. Do you think that a list or more can be built with krox aggradons and monsters? Thank you for your answer ...

[@NecroGoblin-yl2fx]

would build both and see how good it can be with how they buff each others :)

[@hofmanhofamazin3750]

Fangs of Sotek is pretty damn fun and if you run enough wizards you're getting a new unit of raptors every other turn

[@graceggale]

Hear me out... I'm starting to think Starborn could take a page from @WBConcilio 's tactics on a macro scale from before the new Craftworld Eldar book dropped. We are FAST, but FRAGILE. We have a lot of tricks. I think Chargers are not a hammer, they are a trade piece. I'm gonna keep building my kits and maybe I can apply something soon! :D

[@CashFreedman]

Is there a set date to when the new models come out?

[@CashFreedman]

Good day. Does the book ever state what armies you can ally with? I watched the overview and I don't think you mentioned it (though obviously I could've missed it.) Also if this is a dumb question I'm new to age of Sigmar.

[@teryanshadowstorm6882]

Not a dumb question at all imo. And yeah its right at the back along with the points costs, only Stormcast and Cities of Sigmar. From last book we've lost sylvaneth for some reason but gained CoS in return, not 100% sure if thats a good trade or not but it is what it is

[@houkou1]

I am an impatient little skink so I purchased two of the pre-release boxes. I plan to run a list of 3 chargers and 1 hunter to get a free all out attack. As I plan to also use an Old Blood with Leadership of the Alpha to get a round of the special All Out Attack on both of the 10 man saurus units and himself (though he doesn't benefit from the +1 to wound). Once the full range is out I probably won't run this set up again, but I wanted to try to maximize the new models I could get my hands on as much as I could.

[@staalforsfh]

I did the same thing (RIP bank account)! I wanted 3 units of chargers for a thematic army. Also I basically couldn't decide on what build or scheme I wanted for my Slann. So I "needed" 2 😐 (also some more warriors, yes please)

[@CalebHastings]

Nice!!

[@billrussell6416]

I'm still learning the game and I appreciate your breakdowns. I just don't get how this is better than Hunters Ranged with - 2 rend plus having melee too. Plus wouldn't it be stronger to run both for that buff?

[@mikbyskov5019]

I think if you pull off the buff synergy, a unit of chargers + hunters vs a 4+ save, the math works out to about 17.5 damage, whereas 2 units of Chargers vs a 4+ save works out to about 22 damage. If you shoot with Hunters then charge both it I believe it’s about 21 damage. (All 3times assuming the chargers are on an objective for 2 damage) Even without the 2 damage buff, 2 units of chargers come out 2 damage ahead. It’s mostly because you can’t charge the hunters in and also get the bonus second shot. It’s just one or the other. I imagine you do have to consider that the Hunter damage is at range and they stay relatively safer and you don’t have to succeed a charge roll, So that’s worth factoring in. Also gotta wonder if you can even get 10 models into melee range, in which case the hunters are definitely better. But in terms of raw damage output (if you can make the charge) 2x chargers do more damage.

[@billrussell6416]

@@mikbyskov5019 wow. Thanks mate. I'll have to learn how to math hammer now

[@Digihubtcg]

Will kroxigor warspawn ability for skinks count with the hunters and chargers

[@CalebHastings]

Yep, any skink keyworded unit. So theoretically... if a nearby Stegadon died in combat before the Kroxigor got to attack, they would get the extra attack.

[@blkjet117]

I want to field two units of Raptadon Hunters! I'm a crazy man with a plan, but I have no experience with Seraphon so I need help. The rule of cool is in effect (I love these sculpts). I need help with any options, spells, items, choices to make this concept as effective and efficient as possible. I bought the Seraphon Vanguard box for Spearhead. I want to expand my Seraphon force from this. I have another Kroxigor unit that I got for a Warcry team. Have: Saurus Old Blood om Carnosaur Kroxigor x 3 Kroxigor x3 Saurus Warriors x10 Want to get: Saurus Scar Veteran on Aggradon (rule of cool invoked) Aggradon Lancers x3 (rule of cool invoked) Saurus Warriors x10 Crazy Part Raptadon Hunter x5 (screening, flanking, ranged nuisance -- should be safe with 3 line breaker units advancing on their line) Raptadon Hunter x5 (same reason) Not sure what else I need to make this concept work

[@CalebHastings]

Hard to tell what will be good here in a few weeks with 4th edition dropping, but I sure HOPE the Raptadons have a good roll! Love the models and I didn't play them nearly enough in this past edition. Currently, they are great as a screen/flanker. I've scored "Surround and Detroy" with them multiple times!

[@GAINAX01]

So the shields on the Hunters don't give them any extra defence over the chargers? How weird.

[@CalebHastings]

Nope! Its odd! Normally that is what shields do!

[@teryanshadowstorm6882]

I really want to love raptadons, they've got an honestly great looking mini, whats not to like its a gekko riding a raptor but their surviveabilty is just so so poor. Yes they do good (even great) damage but with only 10 wounds and a 5+ a strong breeze will kill them... oh and theyre bravery 5 so they will run. For not that much more points, 185pts to 150pts, you get some Krox with roughly the same damage buffed but 12 wounds with a 4+ save and much better bravery. Same with the new aggradons (when we eventually get em) not a huge points diff , drop 1 chotec you can get 2 aggra units instead of 2 rapta, for 15 wounds also on 4+ with again much better bravery. Like i said i really like them but im just not convinced how useable they are with that low a surviveability in such a damage heavy game as Aos 3rd

[@Bryman1014]

Astrolith + Arcane Might; do we double the range then add 6" or vice versa?

[@edin6128]

Apply modifiers that multiply or divide a value before applying modifiers that add to or subtract from a value.

[@Bryman1014]

@@edin6128 Thats what I figured, but I wanted to double check.

[@therealziop]

What’s the skunk load out? Spitters and clubs?

[@CalebHastings]

Yeah, clubs let ya throw a decent number of dice in melee.

[@johangrenier6016]

I'd really love coalesced to be good but each time i look at your videos i'm like okay -1 damage is great but not being on the table and TP in at the right time makes you take ZERO damage. Starborne looks better in a lot of ways and raptodons dropping near an objective at 7" then attempting a charge on a 6 is just perfection. I think they are great and most of us would love to play them, either as a fast flanking unit, able to grab and contest objectives really fast or just drop bomb them the way stormcast does with annihilators. Also i think spawn of chotec are great but as flamethrower units, doing tons of damage to nearby units (up to 10att with great rend). If we need additionnal rend, purple sun is right there i think (very reliable too with a slaan casting it)

[@MegaSmashGaming]

I'm planning to play FoS and try and summon 1 chargers unit per turn (none in starting army). Charging with more than one unit is pointless as you will need to activate them first or they will be dead.

[@aidandousson9712]

If compared to boingrot, they have average same stats but cost 10 more, lose significant DPS, have 1 less armor, less buffs possible, they can't rally on 4+ or bring half the regiment back on 4+ at the end of the turn. Almost forgot they don't have the BM on charge either ^^. Still a good unit, but Boingrot >>> Chargers ;'(

[@ivobednar4928]

Yeah, they could be a little cheaper especially if you compare them with Dawnriders who are cheaper, much more survivable, and wizards. I think it is a bit sad that they did not give them some janky ability or even the skink ability to have extra dice on the run and redeploy. The dream would be to have them be able to retreat from combat after fighting but that would be too good.

[@sururu6]

i find saurus blocks buffeds way stronger, since they do similar damage and are waay tankier. chickens will be rare to be in a objetive. and i would never take spawn, since ability is way too unreliable and dont do any damage, actual spawn scroll should cost like 80points, in order to be able to take 3 and have 1 efect per turn usually.

[@CalebHastings]

Yeah, definitely overcosted for a poor chance at a buff!

[@ryansosna3432]

Early reports on the spawn are that it's better than it appears. The close range shot is decent and the melee profile is very good, you need to use the whole thing as opposed to just trying to get value out of the long range shot

[@dougnorquest602]

How much of a cost reduction do you think the Hunters need for us to see mixed play with Chargers?

[@gailonebell2154]

The problem with bad rules (like the Hunters) is that they often just don't become relevant. You can drop the points so that the Hunters are playable, but then they are playable because they are fast and can grab objectives and are super cheap. They don't really become playable because of their special extra shooting rule.

[@ryansosna3432]

The hunters are definitely a miss. Somtines i wonder if gw even runs damage calcs for the scrolls they write. Its also a non-bo since it only gives +1 to the tepok lance so youd still have to AoA to get +1 on the raptor attacks, pretty inefficient. I could see the hunters dropping 20 points or more and the chargers going up slightly